Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Canada => The World => Topic started by: Super Colin Blow on July 05, 2022, 03:43:53 am
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Pres. Putin has had some health concerns---very serious ones---of late and they are already speculating as to what will happen if he dies. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov? Dmitri Medvedev? someone from the security services?
Russia could always end up with someone just as bad or worse. Putin could be replaced by another Putin like president. The arrests for "treason" could multiply, and Russia could end up being an even scarier place to live. And this new president might not want to pull out of the Ukrainian War.
Or not. Who knows? It's Russia.
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When are these health issues going to kick in? Or is it that maybe we should sometimes question the validity of the information we get from the mainstream media and it’s collaborators in the intelligence community.
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When are these health issues going to kick in? Or is it that maybe we should sometimes question the validity of the information we get from the mainstream media and it’s collaborators in the intelligence community.
I hope your boy doesn't die on you.
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When are these health issues going to kick in? Or is it that maybe we should sometimes question the validity of the information we get from the mainstream media and it’s collaborators in the intelligence community.
Guy who inisted for years that Iraq had WMDs says what?
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It sounds like shady has learned what the rest of us already knew..
Time for one never believed the health rumors thing.. it reeked of disinfo.
They're all we have to do is get the shades of the world to also question those propaganda videos on YouTube
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Guy who inisted for years that Iraq had WMDs says what?
Guess who’s learned nothing from that?
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It sounds like shady has learned what the rest of us already knew..
Time for one never believed the health rumors thing.. it reeked of disinfo.
They're all we have to do is get the shades of the world to also question those propaganda videos on YouTube
Well said.
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I hope your boy doesn't die on you.
I know, I know, anyone that strays from the media driven narrative is deemed to be a fan of Putin. Do you guys ever get tired of that lazy unintelligent response?
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Not true at all. Just when you align perfectly with the Putin-driven narrative...which you always, unfailingly do.
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I know, I know, anyone that strays from the media driven narrative is deemed to be a fan of Putin. Do you guys ever get tired of that lazy unintelligent response?
Do you have any examples?
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Suggesting there are chemical weapons manufacturers in Ukraine, suggesting they are Nazis, saying they are the most corrupt country, saying Fauci is evil, saying the vaccines kill you, saying the Steele dossier was all fake....
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Weird that as the media became more and more decentralized and diverse, retards became more and more convinced that it was a centralized monolithic voice. But people get their information filtered through corporate media less and less. Now you can see Trumpers and his followers are stupid liars directly from the primary sources through social media. I don't need the media to tell me Russia is losing. They tell me directly themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/xwrnj0/russian_mobiks_location_unspecified_recording_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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Suggesting there are chemical weapons manufacturers in Ukraine, suggesting they are Nazis, saying they are the most corrupt country, saying Fauci is evil, saying the vaccines kill you, saying the Steele dossier was all fake....
I never said that there are chemical weapons manufacturers in Ukraine, I said there were biolabs. Why do you insist on lying? There absolutely are nazis in Ukraine, real ones, not just people that don't support vaccine mandates. Ukraine is one of THE most corrupt countries in the world, that's why Biden withheld funds for them back in 2014. He even bragged about it. Fauci IS evil, and that has nothing to do with Russia. Vaccines CAN kill you, albeit very rare. The Steel dossier HAS been debunked.
The same people that told you there were WMD in Iraq, etc, are telling you all of the things you listed and support. You haven't learned anything after all these years. It's sad and pathetic. You're a stenographer of the rich and powerful.
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I didn't say that all of Putin's talking points are lies. They're usually based on some kernel of truth and then exaggerated from there.
I said you reliably repeat all his talking points, which you have just confirmed.
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1. Weird that as the media became more and more decentralized and diverse, retards became more and more convinced that it was a centralized monolithic voice. But people get their information filtered through corporate media less and less. Now you can see Trumpers and his followers are stupid liars directly from the primary sources through social media. I don't need the media to tell me Russia is losing. They tell me directly themselves.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/xwrnj0/russian_mobiks_location_unspecified_recording_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
1. And yet... when you look at history it's kind of NOT weird.
The Russians et. al. used some brilliant people who doubtlessly examined the 9/11 conspiracies, and knew the lay of the land culturally on conspiracies, what people thought of the government and so on and exploited it in a very creative way.
The conspircy folks are suckers God love 'em...
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Guess who’s learned nothing from that?
You. You've learned nothing, you've just changed your propaganda sources.
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Dr Kimmy strongly recommends that President Putin avoid standing too close to open windows! There has been an epidemic of Russian officials falling out of open windows the past few months, and it would be a terrible shame if President Putin was the next to come down with this unfortunate malady. My analysis of Russian trends indicates that Mr Putin is more likely to die from open windows than from cancer, or whatever it is that he's allegedly unwell from.
-k
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You. You've learned nothing, you've just changed your propaganda sources.
The same people that told you there were WMD in Iraq are telling you everything today that for some reason you take as fact. You’ve learned absolutely nothing. Literally nothing.
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Dr Kimmy strongly recommends that President Putin avoid standing too close to open windows! There has been an epidemic of Russian officials falling out of open windows the past few months, and it would be a terrible shame if President Putin was the next to come down with this unfortunate malady. My analysis of Russian trends indicates that Mr Putin is more likely to die from open windows than from cancer, or whatever it is that he's allegedly unwell from.
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I’m surprised that somebody hasn’t “taken care” of him sooner.
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Dr Kimmy strongly recommends that President Putin avoid standing too close to open windows! There has been an epidemic of Russian officials falling out of open windows the past few months, and it would be a terrible shame if President Putin was the next to come down with this unfortunate malady. My analysis of Russian trends indicates that Mr Putin is more likely to die from open windows than from cancer, or whatever it is that he's allegedly unwell from.
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Don't forget stairs and boats. Stairs and boats are also bad for Russian officials.
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Stairs aren't great for Trump ex-wives either. But their caskets buried on golf courses can be an excellent repository of classified documents.
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The same people that told you there were WMD in Iraq are telling you everything today that for some reason you take as fact. You’ve learned absolutely nothing. Literally nothing.
You literally have no idea what I think about any of this.
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You literally have no idea what I think about any of this.
You're literally accepting as fact everything from the same people that insisted that there were WMD in Iraq. Like literally the exact same people. But it supports your partisan political narrative, so you're okay with them now.
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You're literally accepting as fact everything from the same people that insisted that there were WMD in Iraq. Like literally the exact same people. But it supports your partisan political narrative, so you're okay with them now.
What facts, specifically? You can't even articulate a coherent set of beliefs for yourself, how tf are you going to do it for me?
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You guys figure out that you’re being propagandize yet?
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Why do you think anyone would care what you think about Putin's wellness, to the point that they would leak fake information? Nobody cares what you think.
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You guys figure out that you’re being propagandize yet?
I watched a couple of documentaries recommended to me by otherwise left leaning people to learn more about Russia’s version of events and grievances. I get it, it wasn’t as clear as we were led to believe.
After seeing the double standard on Israel I’ve also come to disbelieve everything our genocide enabling governments seem to regurgitate as fact as though we’re all dummies.
Having said that I’m not sure I’m ready to back the man who kills all his opponents. Seems to me that everyone high in positions of power is pretty much evil. If they’re not evil when they get there, they either become evil (Obama) or they get booted (Carter/Kennedy).
I don’t get how you seem to believe Putin is somehow misunderstood. He’s a cold blooded killer.
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They were the aggressor. If they see NATO as a threat, I see that but their response isn't supportable.
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And let's be clear that the left has known that corporate neoliberal media is manufactured consent, hence the title of the gnome Chomsky book and the film about it.
The fact of the populists seizing on this view of media is part of the weird switching sides that's happening between liberals and right-wing populists. Peter
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I may at times refer to Putin as "PooPoo" from now on
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They were the aggressor. If they see NATO as a threat, I see that but their response isn't supportable.
It’s more than just NATO, that’s my point about our oversimplified version of events. There is a strong pro Russia division in Ukraine and the US just can’t help itself. They meddled to install western friendly government in Ukraine.
We can sit back and judge all we want but with all the fackery the US has pulled around the world invading countries and backing murderous regimes I think ‘the west’ has zero room to pretend to take a moral stance. The CIA isn’t any better than Putin.
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No, Putin is worse.
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No, Putin is worse.
The US has caused havoc in South America and Vietnam. They invaded Iraq getting millions killed. They’ve backed colonial Israel in ethnically cleansing Palestine for 75 years.
Not sure what measure you’re using to say Putin is ‘worse’.
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In addition to war crimes, he assassinates his political enemies and journalists he doesn't like. He also doesn't believe in democracy.
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The US has caused havoc in South America and Vietnam. They invaded Iraq getting millions killed. They’ve backed colonial Israel in ethnically cleansing Palestine for 75 years.
Not sure what measure you’re using to say Putin is ‘worse’.
That ignores everything the USSR did during the Cold War throughout eastern Europe, Asia, the middle east and Africa, not to mention within its own borders.
The US gov is no saint, but give Russia the power the US has had the last 25 years and we'd see really quick who is worse. Putin would be invading and attempting to annex the Caucasus, Ukraine, probably a whole bunch of other former soviet states, fighting and backing middle east oil wars even more than he has been the last 25 years, and whatever else enriched his ego and wealth and that of his oligarch cronies.
Every country has different amounts of power it can project on the world so it's very hard to compare them using their foreign relations. You want to measure how good or bad a government is then look at how they treat their own people. Putin is a murderous goon who runs his country like a mob boss.
Want to compare Lenin with Woodrow Wilson or Stalin with FDR or any other pairing and we can do that too. While we're at it, give the West Bank and Gaza or any Muslim country in the ME the military power Israel has and we'd find out real quick who was "worse". Obviously doesn't excuse or justify everything the US or Israel does but most people on the left have a severe lack of perspective and a horribly naive worldview.
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That ignores everything the USSR did during the Cold War throughout eastern Europe, Asia, the middle east and Africa, not to mention within its own borders.
The US gov is no saint, but give Russia the power the US has had the last 25 years and we'd see really quick who is worse. Putin would be invading and attempting to annex the Caucasus, Ukraine, probably a whole bunch of other former soviet states, fighting and backing middle east oil wars even more than he has been the last 25 years, and whatever else enriched his ego and wealth and that of his oligarch cronies.
You've got to be kidding me. The only reason the US is taking a breather is BECAUSE their murderous imperliastic ambitions were so successful. They have bases all over the world, they've toppled every regime they didn't like, got millions of people killed doing so and everywhere from South America to Middle East and Far East is now a servant to them. It's now pretty much a consensus that the CIA even assasinated a US president when he went against their wishes.
Keep fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. The US is beyond 'no saint' they're as evil as any other imperial/colonial power there ever was.
Want to compare Lenin with Woodrow Wilson or Stalin with FDR or any other pairing and we can do that too. While we're at it, give the West Bank and Gaza or any Muslim country in the ME the military power Israel has and we'd find out real quick who was "worse". Obviously doesn't excuse or justify everything the US or Israel does but most people on the left have a severe lack of perspective and a horribly naive worldview.
Israel is starving 2 million people and literally bombing refugee camps on land that does not belong to them and your only argument is in some parallel universe your clairvoyance says Arabs would be even worse.
Do you even hear yourself?
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You've got to be kidding me. The only reason the US is taking a breather is BECAUSE their murderous imperliastic ambitions were so successful. They have bases all over the world, they've toppled every regime they didn't like, got millions of people killed doing so and everywhere from South America to Middle East and Far East is now a servant to them. It's now pretty much a consensus that the CIA even assasinated a US president when he went against their wishes.
Keep fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. The US is beyond 'no saint' they're as evil as any other imperial/colonial power there ever was.
Israel is starving 2 million people and literally bombing refugee camps on land that does not belong to them and your only argument is in some parallel universe your clairvoyance says Arabs would be even worse.
Do you even hear yourself?
The US is not a a colonial power, it hasn't annexed any territory since the Mexican war in 1848.
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The US is not a a colonial power, it hasn't annexed any territory since the Mexican war in 1848.
I never said it was. Read my post carefully for the wording I used. Hint, second sentence.
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My sentiments on this topic summed up in one picture. Chuckled at Trudeau.
https://x.com/russelldobular/status/1751692195701354561?s=46
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The US is not a a colonial power, it hasn't annexed any territory since the Mexican war in 1848.
It maintains a number of unincorporated territorial possessions (aka colonies) including Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Guam.
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They also invaded and colonized the Phillipines in 1898, which was at least 50 years after 1848.
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My sentiments on this topic summed up in one picture. Chuckled at Trudeau.
https://x.com/russelldobular/status/1751692195701354561?s=46
It’s funny cause it’s true. And they want to use Ukraine and Israel as a way of silencing any dissent at all. We’re literally living Orwell’s 1984 where w 2 + 2 = 5, and you cannot disagree with it, or else you’re “one of them”. And there are useful idiots in our society that go along with it like puppet sheep. I’ve sided more with Israel, at least from the beginning, not as much now, but my stance has been no funding to Israel for war, and no more funding to Ukraine for war. Effort needs to be put into peace negotiations, not never ending wars.
[attachimg=1]
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It’s funny cause it’s true. And they want to use Ukraine and Israel as a way of silencing any dissent at all. We’re literally living Orwell’s 1984 where w 2 + 2 = 5, and you cannot disagree with it, or else you’re “one of them”. And there are useful idiots in our society that go along with it like puppet sheep. I’ve sided more with Israel, at least from the beginning, not as much now, but my stance has been no funding to Israel for war, and no more funding to Ukraine for war. Effort needs to be put into peace negotiations, not never ending wars.
(Attachment Link)
Bullshit Russian propaganda.
America is far from perfect, but they are our leading trading partner, and far better than Russia in just about everything.
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Bullshit Russian propaganda.
America is far from perfect, but they are our leading trading partner, and far better than Russia in just about everything.
Bullsh1t 'American propaganda'.
Just because they're our leading trading partner doesn't mean we can pretend they 'far from perfect' or 'no saint' as Queefer said. They have a disgustingly a horrible history of starting wars, meddling in other countries and getting millions of people killed.
I don't play this 'our killings are better' bullsh1t because it's propaganda the same way as Russians believe we're the aholes and their wars are just.
If Iceland says Russia sucks, ok. The US needs to the fack down... and us by affiliation.
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Bullsh1t 'American propaganda'.
Just because they're our leading trading partner doesn't mean we can pretend they 'far from perfect' or 'no saint' as Queefer said. They have a disgustingly a horrible history of starting wars, meddling in other countries and getting millions of people killed.
I don't play this 'our killings are better' bullsh1t because it's propaganda the same way as Russians believe we're the aholes and their wars are just.
You cannot be serious.
Ask some of Russia's historical neighbours, just how much "better" they are situated with Russia on their border (i.e Poland, the Baltic countries, Finland, Ukraine, etc).
Last time I checked, the United States has never invaded Canada in the 156 years we have been a country.
What's next? It's "America's/NATO's fault" that Russia was "provoked" into invading Ukraine?
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You cannot be serious.
Ask some of Russia's historical neighbours, just how much "better" they are situated with Russia on their border (i.e Poland, the Baltic countries, Finland, Ukraine, etc).
Last time I checked, the United States has never invaded Canada in the 156 years we have been a country.
What's next? It's "America's/NATO's fault" that Russia was "provoked" into invading Ukraine?
I don’t know, you may want to ask Cuba and some of the Central American and South American countries for their opinion of being Americas neighbours.
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You cannot be serious.
Ask some of Russia's historical neighbours, just how much "better" they are situated with Russia on their border (i.e Poland, the Baltic countries, Finland, Ukraine, etc).
Last time I checked, the United States has never invaded Canada in the 156 years we have been a country.
What's next? It's "America's/NATO's fault" that Russia was "provoked" into invading Ukraine?
Yeah well, I'm using criteria beyond 'not invading neighbours' in making my assessment of evil countries. I'm also making the argument that we're not AS evil is just a matter of perspective. They would say the same thing about us.
And no, this isn't just about NATO, that's just another aspect of the US oversimplifiying things for propaganda (think 'they hate our freedoms' and 911).
There was also a lot of meddling that went into the removal of Yanukovich and as always, it came back to bite US in the behind.
But yes, of course the NATO issue is contentious too. I have zero doubt the US would equally fight Russian influence expanding.
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I don’t know, you may want to ask Cuba and some of the Central American and South American countries for their opinion of being Americas neighbours.
Nice to see you finally acknowledge Reagan's death squads that he financed by selling Iran arms. But I thought you were all for that.
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All the media does not is manufacture consent. They don’t report on news anymore. And if you deviate from the consent in any way, your Scarlett lettered, othered or NcCarthyed. It’s as bad as I’ve ever seen it.
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It's no different than it's ever been. But there's a huge credibility difference between the MSM and the far right liars that embarrass you by getting you to repeat their BS.
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You've got to be kidding me. The only reason the US is taking a breather is BECAUSE their murderous imperliastic ambitions were so successful. They have bases all over the world, they've toppled every regime they didn't like, got millions of people killed doing so and everywhere from South America to Middle East and Far East is now a servant to them. It's now pretty much a consensus that the CIA even assasinated a US president when he went against their wishes.
Keep fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. The US is beyond 'no saint' they're as evil as any other imperial/colonial power there ever was.
Israel is starving 2 million people and literally bombing refugee camps on land that does not belong to them and your only argument is in some parallel universe your clairvoyance says Arabs would be even worse.
Do you even hear yourself?
I haven't defended any US or Israeli action in my posts yet, it would be ridiculous to say they are faultless or even near so, they do bad things all the time. But yes, Arab countries would absolutely, unequivocally be worse than Israel and they generally are. Netanyahu is not a good man but he's a peach compared to most Arab regimes.
Keep fooling yourself, but you're not fooling me. The US is beyond 'no saint' they're as evil as any other imperial/colonial power there ever was.
To argue that the US is as evil as the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese etc empires, or Nazi Germany or the USSR is beyond ridiculous.
Also consider that the US had a monopoly on nuclear weapons right after WW2 and could have forced the surrender of any country in the world it wanted, including the USSR. Instead they chose to spearhead the creation of the UN and rebuild Europe, Japan, and Germany. You think Putin would have done that? Do you seriously think giving Putin the power of the US military and economy would be a wash for the world?
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Yeah well, I'm using criteria beyond 'not invading neighbours' in making my assessment of evil countries. I'm also making the argument that we're not AS evil is just a matter of perspective. They would say the same thing about us.
Consider how most governments in the world treat their own people and how and if they respect human rights for them? If they treat their own people terribly, jail or kill dissidents, journalists, political opponents, and treat women/homosexuals/racial minorities like crap do you think they care about people in foreign countries? Do you really think most of these regimes would blink if they could invade and annex other countries if they could get away with it? Or simply steal their resources? Do you think Putin would take Alaska back for Russia if he could?
Putin's gov even designed widespread state-sponsored cheating at something as meaningless as the Olympics while also bribing Olympic judges. Even bribing of court judges is very rare in the US compared to most other non-western countries.
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I get what you’re saying about how Russia treats its citizens. I was thinking today about the beliefs I’m espousing on this thread and how much conviction I have in them. Let’s say someone held a gun to my head and said I had to live the rest of my life in the US or in Russia — what would I do. I mean, it’s warmer in the US and English is the official language so there’s that. But I think I’d rather they pull the trigger than spend my life in the US so I kinda stand by what I’m saying. The US is a shithole just like Russia.
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I get what you’re saying about how Russia treats its citizens. I was thinking today about the beliefs I’m espousing on this thread and how much conviction I have in them. Let’s say someone held a gun to my head and said I had to live the rest of my life in the US or in Russia — what would I do. I mean, it’s warmer in the US and English is the official language so there’s that. But I think I’d rather they pull the trigger than spend my life in the US so I kinda stand by what I’m saying. The US is a shithole just like Russia.
The US isn't that different than Canada, when all is said. And you would kill yourself, rather than live there, and still equate it to living in Russia? I seriously do not understand the hatred for America, considering how much Canada has in common with them.
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Eww no the US is deplorable. It’s like Alberta but with shootings and no healthcare. I used to go to LA when my grandma was alive and would say it’s the only nice part of the country but even LA is crap now.
The US is not like Canada at all. You feel the difference the moment you cross the border which I’m proud to say has not happened in over a decade and will never happen again as far as I can help it.
And yes, I’ve seen many different parts of it, both coasts as well as the south.
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Get back to me when political enemies of the president are being assassinated in prison (although there's a good chance that will be next year).
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Well, Putin eliminates another one. What a guy.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-alexei-navalny-1.7117208
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Eww no the US is deplorable. It’s like Alberta but with shootings and no healthcare. I used to go to LA when my grandma was alive and would say it’s the only nice part of the country but even LA is crap now.
The US is not like Canada at all. You feel the difference the moment you cross the border which I’m proud to say has not happened in over a decade and will never happen again as far as I can help it.
And yes, I’ve seen many different parts of it, both coasts as well as the south.
Canada’s not much different anymore. The current federal government has made it that way. Rampant homelessness, huge increases in violent crime, etc.
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Get back to me when political enemies of the president are being assassinated in prison (although there's a good chance that will be next year).
There you go making my case. Half the country idolizes (not just plans on voting for, but literally idolizes) a rapist, conman and wannabe dictator. The other half is willing to vote for genocide enabling senile 80 year old just to keep him out. Not that Singh Trudeau and Pollievre are exemplary but the US is a downtrodden shithole.
And you don’t need to convince me about Putin’s kill count, I referred to it on it earlier as my reason for not willing to revere him like the rabid right is doing. I called him evil.
I was talking about how fighting for global influence and domination is not Putin’s alone. When Queefer brought up standard of living I said I wouldn’t live in the US any more than I’d live in Russia. Obviously choosing death is hyperbole, I’d probably live in Russia over death too but it’s true that I think the States is a shithole, I haven’t been in 10 years and don’t plan on ever visiting again.
I don’t see ‘greatest ally’ very differently than Russia, not necessarily because of individual presidents but the CIA and its sociopathic history and quest for global influence and domination.
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Canada’s not much different anymore. The current federal government has made it that way. Rampant homelessness, huge increases in violent crime, etc.
This is a good point, all western nations seem to have gotten worse for their standard of living the last 30 years. The US just had a head start.
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There you go making my case. Half the country idolizes (not just plans on voting for, but literally idolizes) a rapist, conman and wannabe dictator. The other half is willing to vote for genocide enabling senile 80 year old just to keep him out. Not that Singh Trudeau and Pollievre are exemplary but the US is a downtrodden shithole.
How is Biden enabling genocide?
BTW, under Trump it would be worse for Palestinians.
Either way, both Presidents were elected under a democratic system.
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I get what you’re saying about how Russia treats its citizens. I was thinking today about the beliefs I’m espousing on this thread and how much conviction I have in them. Let’s say someone held a gun to my head and said I had to live the rest of my life in the US or in Russia — what would I do. I mean, it’s warmer in the US and English is the official language so there’s that. But I think I’d rather they pull the trigger than spend my life in the US so I kinda stand by what I’m saying. The US is a shithole just like Russia.
I was not expecting this response.
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I did notice during the Putin interview that he looked pretty healthy
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Other than that twitchiness. But maybe he was nervous because Tucker is such a hard-hitting journalist. 😂
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-forced-hold-down-32084170
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In response to Navalny's death, Tucker says, "Every leader kills people."
What a cowardly sh!tstain he is. No wonder shady loves him.
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I’m laughing at what Tucker said here not necessarily the connection to shady. Turns out me and shady finally find ourselves in agreement on some level. It only took a couple of decades.
Tucker is hilarious though. The right becoming Putin’s stooges is hilarious.
Russia is winning the Cold War using republicans as a Trojan horse.
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Tucker is hilarious though. The right becoming Putin’s stooges is hilarious.
You're doing the same thing that's done to anyone that questions Israel's action regarding Gaza. I'm surprised that you can't see that, and that it's a common tool to use to silence debate and discussion.
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Are you referring to when you called me an antisemite for...not even criticizing Israel, just because that was the only argument you could think of?
This is nothing like that. How do you feel about Tucker minimizing political assassination?
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"Stop the steal" and the Putin buttkissing is the new "Iraq has WMDs".
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In response to Navalny's death, Tucker says, "Every leader kills people."
What a cowardly sh!tstain he is. No wonder shady loves him.
Tucker is the biggest piece of garbage in America.
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You're doing the same thing that's done to anyone that questions Israel's action regarding Gaza. I'm surprised that you can't see that, and that it's a common tool to use to silence debate and discussion.
Actually, it's not all that inconsistent. Given the way I see the Israeli/Gaza conflict being presented (which is essentially gaslighting), I decided to not take at face value how Ukraine is being presented. Russian propaganda is as untrustworthy as western propaganda, of course both sides will minimize any truth in the opposing view.
I started with Oliver Stone's Ukrain on Fire (2016) because I trust him on other issues. The documentary was criticized as too Russian friendly but that's exactly what i wanted to hear: the opposing side, but told from the perspective of someone I otherwise trust to tell the story, unlike Putin. I went down a rabbit hole after trying to understand.
I get it now that the NATO issue is an oversimpliciation. This is basically a proxy war that's been going on covertly for a long time now. It didn't quite spring out of nowhere, just like October 7th didn't spring out of nowhere.
Having said that, Putin has spent a great deal of resources to influence the American right, quite successfuly I might add. It's like AIPAC but more covert. I don't think that's a secret.
I still believe the US has no moral authority to point fingers at anyone but I'm not entirely on board with Russia as a good guy either.
Russia lost the cold war and Putin is saying not on my watch. There are no good guys here, this is a decades old cold war reviving itself and both sides are ruthless and will step on anything and anyone to get what they want.
That's my take.
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You're doing the same thing that's done to anyone that questions Israel's action regarding Gaza. I'm surprised that you can't see that, and that it's a common tool to use to silence debate and discussion.
Who is doing this and using those tools, exactly? Jesus Christ man, learn a little self-awareness.
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In response to Navalny's death, Tucker says, "Every leader kills people."
What a cowardly sh!tstain he is. No wonder shady loves him.
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1758480759755591680/vid/avc1/1280x720/AYextKttgmtp2wWf.mp4?tag=16): extract of Egyptian journalist Emad Adeeb's interview where the azzwipe Carlson states, "Every leader kills people, leadership requires killing"
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Biden should invite Tucker out to dinner.
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But seriously, I've bnever heard anything more vile coming from a supposed western journalist. His career should be over just for that. Unfortunately, his followers are the stupidest of the stupid and it won't ever register with them just how far across the line condoning political assasination is.
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I used to watch crossfire on cnn in the early 2000's when tucker wore that dweeby bowtie. I've never been able to get over that image of him.
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He lost his mind when Jon Stewart told him he's bad for America, became enticed by dark Russian money, and proved Stewart right beyond his worst imaginings.
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The US has caused havoc in South America and Vietnam. They invaded Iraq getting millions killed. They’ve backed colonial Israel in ethnically cleansing Palestine for 75 years.
Not sure what measure you’re using to say Putin is ‘worse’.
A little bit of context is important here.
Yes, the U.S. has been mucking around in places like South American and Vietnam over much of the 20th century. But at the time, there was little chance for a democratic alternative, because other countries (namely the Soviet Union and their associates, such as cuba) were busy creating their own havoc, trying to install puppet (non-democratic) communist governments. (And remember, the U.S. did not "start" the vietnam war; the communist (and non-democratic) North Vietnam invaded the south. Supporting allied countries is usually a good thing, is it not?
And yes, they invaded Iraq. And people died as a result. But then, people forget that Saddam was... not a nice person. A leader who was responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths himself (including genocide). Usually when leaders try to pull that sort of stuff, the world likes to say "wait a minute... maybe you shouldn't be doing that".
And yes, they have been backing Israel over Palestine. Now, I do not think Israel is flawless, but keep in mind that fpr years the Palestinians were run by a government that promised to "push the Israelis into the sea". And then they elected Hamas, a group that launched a terrorist attack where they indiscrimitely killed men, women, children, and babies. Given the fact that Israel is a relatively stable western democracy, and Palestine is run by a terrorist group who hasn't had elections since they came to power, why shouldn't the U.S. support a democracy?
Now, lets compare that to Putin and the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.
Can you claim it was necessary to counter "extremism" from the other side (as the U.S. was doing in south America)? Nope. Ukraine was a fledgling democracy. (Perhaps not as secure as western democracies but it was stable and basic rights were respected.) Can you claim that Putin was invading to stop genocide or other abuses (as was happening in Iraq)? Nope. In fact, in 2019, Ukraine had a "freedom index" rating of 60. Not great, but not bad. Russia's freedom index at the time was 20. In other words, The "less free" country of Russia was attacking the "more free" country of Ukraine.
That makes Putin worse. He can't even use the veneer of "stopping human rights abuses" since things are worse in Russia than they are in Ukraine. And he can't claim "I'm preventing an unfrendly authoritarian government from getting established" because Ukraine was more democratic than Russia. His invasion of Ukraine was pointless, done only to appeal to his own ego.
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Where the US really screwed up in the Middle East was Bush 2's invasion of Iraq. As bad as Saddam was, Iraq was a large counterweight to Iran in the region. Now Iraq, Syria and Lebanon have become bases for Iran's war to eliminate Israel.
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His invasion of Ukraine was pointless, done only to appeal to his own ego.
This is complete and utter nonsense. The invasion of Ukraine was a result of a couple of things. The 2014 coup orchestrated by the west toppling the more Russian leaning Ukrainian government, and then the potential acceptance of Ukraine into NATO, bringing nato to the border or Russia, which was promised would never happen and which Russia sees as an existential threat similar to the way America saw Russia’s influence in Cuba in the early 1960s, which almost started a nuclear war. Bob Gates, Obama’s former secretary of defence predicted this war back in 2015, based on the coup and potential nato expansion. He literally predicted it in a book he wrote almost 10 years ago. This whole war was completely avoidable.
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This is complete and utter nonsense. The invasion of Ukraine was a result of a couple of things. The 2014 coup orchestrated by the west toppling the more Russian leaning Ukrainian government, and then the potential acceptance of Ukraine into NATO, bringing nato to the border or Russia, which was promised would never happen and which Russia sees as an existential threat similar to the way America saw Russia’s influence in Cuba in the early 1960s, which almost started a nuclear war. Bob Gates, Obama’s former secretary of defence predicted this war back in 2015, based on the coup and potential nato expansion. He literally predicted it in a book he wrote almost 10 years ago. This whole war was completely avoidable.
He was thrown out by his own people. Corrupt as hell, he ran off to Russia to join the rest of Putin’s merry band of robber barons. Russia has already added one NATO country to his border (Finland) and if he takes Ukraine there will be four more. Taking Ukraine brings him closer to NATO.
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This is complete and utter nonsense. The invasion of Ukraine was a result of a couple of things. The 2014 coup orchestrated by the west toppling the more Russian leaning Ukrainian government, and then the potential acceptance of Ukraine into NATO, bringing nato to the border or Russia, which was promised would never happen and which Russia sees as an existential threat similar to the way America saw Russia’s influence in Cuba in the early 1960s, which almost started a nuclear war. Bob Gates, Obama’s former secretary of defence predicted this war back in 2015, based on the coup and potential nato expansion. He literally predicted it in a book he wrote almost 10 years ago. This whole war was completely avoidable.
Lying.
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Putin is a POS but the Democrat POTUS admins trying to get Ukraine into NATO was pretty stupid. Unless you don't mind starting a war to get your defense contractor donors rich yet again after you just pulled the last US troops out of Afghanistan. The US political establishment wants permanent war, the party is irrelevant.
And to prevent the Democrat cheerleaders on here from getting butthurt yet again, yes I know the Democrats as a whole generally aren't nearly as bad as the GOP on many other issues.
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Putin is a POS but the Democrat POTUS admins trying to get Ukraine into NATO was pretty stupid.
How is that pretty stupid? Before Russia invaded, the Ukraine never asked to join NATO. In addition to that, we know that Russia cannot be trusted, due to the 1996 agreement that saw Ukraine return all of it's nuclear arsenal to Russia, in return for Russia recognising the sovereignty of the Ukraine borders.
Unless you don't mind starting a war to get your defense contractor donors rich yet again after you just pulled the last US troops out of Afghanistan. The US political establishment wants permanent war, the party is irrelevant.
Obviously the US has been in the wrong in the past over some wars. This situation is not it. The Ukrainians are not the type of people who are going to turn against America like Afghanistan did. This is about what is right and wrong, and has absolutely nothing to do with making defense contractors rich.
I've just noticed that too many are quick to point out the Afghanistan situation, and neglect to mention any positive moves the USA has done. Post war Germany, Korea, Yugoslavia, and many others just to name a few.
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The invasion of Ukraine was a result of a couple of things. The 2014 coup orchestrated by the west toppling the more Russian leaning Ukrainian government, and then the potential acceptance of Ukraine into NATO,
It had nothing to do with NATO. Talks about Ukraine joining NATO is a recent thing- 2022 and beyond.
bringing nato to the border or Russia, which was promised would never happen
The USA never promised Russia they would not allow countries on it's border to join NATO. For starters, when the Iron Curtain collapsed in 1989, the Soviet Union still existed. Even after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, there still existed the "Commonwealth of Independant States" for years. At no time did Gorbachev or Yeltsin demand that NATO not expand to Eastern Europe.
In fact, the first time this was a thing, was long after Putin became leader, and started spreading Russian misinformation about NATO. It's been debunked on this forum on at least two occasions.
Bob Gates, Obama’s former secretary of defence predicted this war back in 2015, based on the coup and potential nato expansion. He literally predicted it in a book he wrote almost 10 years ago. This whole war was completely avoidable.
Well the Russia-Ukraine war would not have been hard to predict in 2015, considering the war had began in 2014. I could have predicted 9/11 would happen in 2002.
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A little bit of context is important here.
Yes, the U.S. has been mucking around in places like South American and Vietnam over much of the 20th century. But at the time, there was little chance for a democratic alternative, because other countries (namely the Soviet Union and their associates, such as cuba) were busy creating their own havoc, trying to install puppet (non-democratic) communist governments. (And remember, the U.S. did not "start" the vietnam war; the communist (and non-democratic) North Vietnam invaded the south. Supporting allied countries is usually a good thing, is it not?
And yes, they invaded Iraq. And people died as a result. But then, people forget that Saddam was... not a nice person. A leader who was responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths himself (including genocide). Usually when leaders try to pull that sort of stuff, the world likes to say "wait a minute... maybe you shouldn't be doing that".
And yes, they have been backing Israel over Palestine. Now, I do not think Israel is flawless, but keep in mind that fpr years the Palestinians were run by a government that promised to "push the Israelis into the sea". And then they elected Hamas, a group that launched a terrorist attack where they indiscrimitely killed men, women, children, and babies. Given the fact that Israel is a relatively stable western democracy, and Palestine is run by a terrorist group who hasn't had elections since they came to power, why shouldn't the U.S. support a democracy?
Now, lets compare that to Putin and the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.
Can you claim it was necessary to counter "extremism" from the other side (as the U.S. was doing in south America)? Nope. Ukraine was a fledgling democracy. (Perhaps not as secure as western democracies but it was stable and basic rights were respected.) Can you claim that Putin was invading to stop genocide or other abuses (as was happening in Iraq)? Nope. In fact, in 2019, Ukraine had a "freedom index" rating of 60. Not great, but not bad. Russia's freedom index at the time was 20. In other words, The "less free" country of Russia was attacking the "more free" country of Ukraine.
That makes Putin worse. He can't even use the veneer of "stopping human rights abuses" since things are worse in Russia than they are in Ukraine. And he can't claim "I'm preventing an unfrendly authoritarian government from getting established" because Ukraine was more democratic than Russia. His invasion of Ukraine was pointless, done only to appeal to his own ego.
I love how you just downplay Iraq even 20 years later with the benefit of hindsight. It was a stain on humanity, it got millions of people killed. How anyone can still pretend it was just a little oopsie is beyond me.
Israel cannot be a democracy and a Jewish state at the same time. At this point when two state solution seems to have become an impossible endeavour, Israel could at least officially recognize WB and Gaza and have its Judea and Samaria. But it doesn't because it doesn't want to change the demographics, that tells you that it's NOT a democracy.
Putin definitely sucks as a person, I've conceded several times. He's sociopath no doubt about it, but you guys seem to think it's ok to love OUR sociopaths when at the end of the day, they're two sides of the same coin.
Both wanting power and domination and not a single f*ck to give about who gets killed getting there.
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Where the US really screwed up in the Middle East was Bush 2's invasion of Iraq. As bad as Saddam was, Iraq was a large counterweight to Iran in the region. Now Iraq, Syria and Lebanon have become bases for Iran's war to eliminate Israel.
THIS is exactly the kind of ethnocentrism I'm talking about. Millions of Iraqis killed and displaced and wounded and the only concern here is oh no, Iran became more powerful. SMH
But yeah, Putin is so evil.
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THIS is exactly the kind of ethnocentrism I'm talking about. Millions of Iraqis killed and displaced and wounded and the only concern here is oh no, Iran became more powerful. SMH
But yeah, Putin is so evil.
Ya, Putin is evil. Bush was only in office 8 years, replaced democratically by Obama. Not a dictator for life or as long as he can keep killing off his opposition.
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I love how you just downplay Iraq even 20 years later with the benefit of hindsight. It was a stain on humanity, it got millions of people killed. How anyone can still pretend it was just a little oopsie is beyond me.
This figure is just incorrect. The death toll is highly disputed, ranging from 150,000 to 1,000,000 deaths during the Iraq War and occupation. Many experts peg the casualty rate (directly and indirectly) at roughly 450,000-500,000. Unsure of where you heard the "millions of people killed."
Israel cannot be a democracy and a Jewish state at the same time.
Yes it can.
At this point when two state solution seems to have become an impossible endeavour, Israel could at least officially recognize WB and Gaza and have its Judea and Samaria. But it doesn't because it doesn't want to change the demographics, that tells you that it's NOT a democracy.
Israel relinquished Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005, and removed all settlements. Essentially recognising Gaza Strip as Palestinian territory. We all saw how that played out.
Putin definitely sucks as a person, I've conceded several times. He's sociopath no doubt about it, but you guys seem to think it's ok to love OUR sociopaths when at the end of the day, they're two sides of the same coin.
Your hatred of America blinds you to the realities of geopolitics. It's not in the best interest of Western countries to side with Putin, or argue that life under Russian occupation could not be worse than being in the American sphere of influence.
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The far right: "Putin has done great things for Russia. He has turned Russia into a country with low crime, and affordable cost of living!"
The far left: "Putin is bad, but America is worse! The genocide enablers!"
Silent majority: "Putin needs to be stopped, and giving Ukraine aid is the best way to achieve this. America may have warts, but it is a hell of lot better than living next to Russia."
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Ya, Putin is evil. Bush was only in office 8 years, replaced democratically by Obama. Not a dictator for life or as long as he can keep killing off his opposition.
Good grief, you make it seem like Bush was a lone wolf in all that. The CIA and his entire administration, including Powell, made the case for it. Congress approved it, Bush won reelection in spite of it, even winning the popular vote the second time around. Obama came in, suave and sexy but he went on to commit war crimes with his drones and tried to blame the CIA for it, pretending he was just taking the best way forward. Dumb luck or not, Trump managed to not start any wars even though he killed an Iranian general and Biden came in and backed Israel in ethnically cleansing Gaza.
These are not one offs, this is what America does and trust me, I don't necessarily think these are all evil men. I'm sure many of them came in wanting to do good, but this is a SYSTEM. Once they get in, they have no choice but to act in the country's national interest which does not GAF about anythig else. That's precisely WHY I say the difference with Putin is minimal.
But yes, Putin is also a dictator and that's pretty much the only leg America had to stand on but now with Republicans backing Trump, even that's a shaky argument.
PS, it didn't go unnoticed that you couldn't acknowledge my point about your ethnocentrism. Even with the benefit of hindsight your biggest takeaway seems to be that an enemy state gained more power, not the fact innocent lives were lost.
Whether or not you see it, or don't *want* to see it, you are no different than the average Russian who thinks Putin is right in fighting for Ukraine or NATO or any other proxy war that Russian gets involved in. It's them or us... that's what we seem to say too.
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This figure is just incorrect. The death toll is highly disputed, ranging from 150,000 to 1,000,000 deaths during the Iraq War and occupation. Many experts peg the casualty rate (directly and indirectly) at roughly 450,000-500,000. Unsure of where you heard the "millions of people killed."
Yes it can.
Israel relinquished Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005, and removed all settlements. Essentially recognising Gaza Strip as Palestinian territory. We all saw how that played out.
Your hatred of America blinds you to the realities of geopolitics. It's not in the best interest of Western countries to side with Putin, or argue that life under Russian occupation could not be worse than being in the American sphere of influence.
Oh was it ONLY 1/2 a million people killed in Iraq. Wow, that's so much better and makes such a massive difference to my argument. eye roll.
First, if Israel was able to go into Gaza day one, turn off food and power, they never gave Gaza back. They still controlled it, they just removed their settlements. Second, my point here was that if they reject a Palestinian state for security reasons they could at least proceed with a one state solution but they won't because it's a JEWISH state. That is a quasi theocracy.
And yeah, I have no love for the USA as I've gotten older. I have good reason not to. It's not just the war mongering, the Republicans are straight up deranged and the gun culture is out of control.
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Good grief, you make it seem like Bush was a lone wolf in all that. The CIA and his entire administration, including Powell, made the case for it. Congress approved it, Bush won reelection in spite of it, even winning the popular vote the second time around. Obama came in, suave and sexy but he went on to commit war crimes with his drones and tried to blame the CIA for it, pretending he was just taking the best way forward. Dumb luck or not, Trump managed to not start any wars even though he killed an Iranian general and Biden came in and backed Israel in ethnically cleansing Gaza.
These are not one offs, this is what America does and trust me, I don't necessarily think these are all evil men. I'm sure many of them came in wanting to do good, but this is a SYSTEM. Once they get in, they have no choice but to act in the country's national interest which does not GAF about anythig else. That's precisely WHY I say the difference with Putin is minimal.
But yes, Putin is also a dictator and that's pretty much the only leg America had to stand on but now with Republicans backing Trump, even that's a shaky argument.
PS, it didn't go unnoticed that you couldn't acknowledge my point about your ethnocentrism. Even with the benefit of hindsight your biggest takeaway seems to be that an enemy state gained more power, not the fact innocent lives were lost.
Whether or not you see it, or don't *want* to see it, you are no different than the average Russian who thinks Putin is right in fighting for Ukraine or NATO or any other proxy war that Russian gets involved in. It's them or us... that's what we seem to say too.
Who would you rather have on our southern border, the US or Russia? If it was Russia, I bet your attitude toward NATO would do a 180. Eastern European countries that joined NATO know what it was like to live under the Russian boot and aren’t going to let it happen again. Even neutrals like Sweden and Finland have said enough and can’t afford to be neutral any longer.
The US didn’t invade Ukraine and bomb the crap out of the place, RUSSIA DID!
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Mind you, from what we've seen in the last two weeks, the Republican Party has been widely co-opted by Putin, so the U.S. and Russia may be indistinguishable after the next election.
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Mind you, from what we've seen in the last two weeks, the Republican Party has been widely co-opted by Putin, so the U.S. and Russia may be indistinguishable after the next election.
The Trump Party seems headed in that direction, hopefully the American system is strong enough to resist it.
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Mind you, from what we've seen in the last two weeks, the Republican Party has been widely co-opted by Putin, so the U.S. and Russia may be indistinguishable after the next election.
Wow, you really are completely deranged. I feel sorry for people like you, so propagandized that you don’t even realize it. Total hand puppet and mouthpiece for the powerful and elite. A stooge for the top 1%.
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The Trump Party seems headed in that direction, hopefully the American system is strong enough to resist it.
Resist the preference of voters? Is that what democracy is now?
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Millions of Iraqis killed and displaced and wounded...
The death toll is highly disputed, ranging from 150,000 to 1,000,000 deaths during the Iraq War and occupation.
yes, the number of violent deaths directly attributed to the illegal US/UK led invasion of Iraq and subsequent war is disputed. As is the number of civilians displaced (most as refugees to Syria & Jordan)... as is the number of internal civilian displacements in Iraq... as is the resulting number of deaths associated with the collapse of the infrastructure that supports health care, clean water, nutrition and transportation... as is the number of deaths related to the subsequent (and resulting), years later, Iraqi civil war. However what shouldn't be in 'overall' dispute is member BC_cheque's reference to, "Millions of Iraqis killed and displaced and wounded" - because most certainly, most obviously, deaths and civilian impacts were, and continue to be, far reaching!
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Resist the preference of voters? Is that what democracy is now?
That's exactly what they tried to do on Jan 6.
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That's exactly what they tried to do on Jan 6.
How did people trespassing do that exactly?
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How did people trespassing do that exactly?
Phoney electors, trying to hunt down legislators. "Where's Pelosi" "Hang Mike Pence", trying to coerce election officials, either to "find votes" or accusing innocent people of fraud. It's not a small list.
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How did people trespassing do that exactly?
trolling phacker says Jan 6 insurrectionists were simply... "trespassing"!
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How did people trespassing do that exactly?
Maybe you should go back to claiming it was Antifa and FBI plants.
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Phoney electors, trying to hunt down legislators. "Where's Pelosi" "Hang Mike Pence", trying to coerce election officials, either to "find votes" or accusing innocent people of fraud. It's not a small list.
Alternative electors have been done in the past. Phoney is a nonsensical talking point, making it sound like people dressed up and tried to look like and impersonate electors. Yes, rioters say all kinds of things, that doesn't change results of an election. Find votes? Like recounting certain favourable counties like Democrats have tried to do in the past? You've been propagandized. Regardless, even if we believe everything you say, you think "the system" resisting the will of voters is democracy now?
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Wow, you really are completely deranged. I feel sorry for people like you, so propagandized that you don’t even realize it. Total hand puppet and mouthpiece for the powerful and elite. A stooge for the top 1%.
You dickride billionaires and corporations all the time what are you on about.
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trolling phacker says Jan 6 insurrectionists were simply... "trespassing"!
They were unarmed and those charged were charged with trespassing. Do facts annoy you?
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Alternative electors have been done in the past. Phoney is a nonsensical talking point, making it sound like people dressed up and tried to look like and impersonate electors. Yes, rioters say all kinds of things, that doesn't change results of an election. Find votes? Like recounting certain favourable counties like Democrats have tried to do in the past? You've been propagandized. Regardless, even if we believe everything you say, you think "the system" resisting the will of voters is democracy now?
You think having a recount is the same as trying to intimidate an election official to "find" a particular number of votes and creating a group of alternate electors? That's one of your weakest whataboutisms yet, and all of them have been very, very weak.
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You think having a recount is the same as trying to intimidate an election official to "find" a particular number of votes and creating a group of alternate electors? That's one of your weakest whataboutisms yet, and all of them have been very, very weak.
Alternate electors are a thing, and have been done in the past. You don’t know history, because you’re propagandized. I don’t know how anyone was intimidated, but I’m open to hearing any arguments in court about it.
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You dickride billionaires and corporations all the time what are you on about.
If the rich/powerful/elite told you to eat your own sh*t because it would benefit society, you’d do it. Most in this forum would do it. You’d see it in CNN or something and be like, “sounds reasonable”! 😂
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If the rich/powerful/elite told you to eat your own sh*t because it would benefit society, you’d do it. Most in this forum would do it. You’d see it in CNN or something and be like, “sounds reasonable”! 😂
Says the guy who would literally suck Elon Musk's c*ck just for fun if given half a chance.
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How did people trespassing do that exactly?
trolling phacker says Jan 6 insurrectionists were simply... "trespassing"!
They were unarmed and those charged were charged with trespassing. Do facts annoy you?
oh my Shady! You write with such conviction, such confidence, such... authority! Of the ~1200 charged (so far) with misdemeanour offences (like trespassing) and felony offences (like assaulting police officers and seditious conspiracy), care to share the numbers and types of charges filed - sure you can!
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Says the guy who would literally suck Elon Musk's c*ck just for fun if given half a chance.
Go eats some bugs dipsh*t. I hear the elites are suggesting that now.
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oh my Shady! You write with such conviction, such confidence, such... authority! Of the ~1200 charged (so far) with misdemeanour offences (like trespassing) and felony offences (like assaulting police officers and seditious conspiracy), care to share the numbers and types of charges filed - sure you can!
Why don’t you share the numbers, sounds like you already got them!
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Go eats some bugs dipsh*t. I hear the elites are suggesting that now.
You're just posturing as an anti-elitist because it's de rigueur among the dipshit right wingers you copy all your catchphrases from (you're even doing that in this post!), but we all know whenever the discussion rolls around to actually taking steps to curtail the power or economic influence of the elite, you revert to bootlicker mode. Many such cases.
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They were unarmed and those charged were charged with trespassing. Do facts annoy you?
They exercised their second amendment rights and were certainly armed. Quit lying to defend your treason, Putin-boy.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used
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They exercised their second amendment rights and were certainly armed. Quit lying to defend your treason, Putin-boy.
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used
Like 3 people out of something like 1200 were armed, and you want to pretend it was an armed “insurrection”. You’re a propagandist for the elite and powerful. Congratulations.
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You're just posturing as an anti-elitist because it's de rigueur among the dipshit right wingers you copy all your catchphrases from (you're even doing that in this post!), but we all know whenever the discussion rolls around to actually taking steps to curtail the power or economic influence of the elite, you revert to bootlicker mode. Many such cases.
All of your sh*tlib policies are an attack on the middle class, completely supported by the elite, wealthy and powerful. Particularly mass immigration, which allows big corporations to not have to compete for labour and not have to raise wages and benefits. It depresses wages, and they only have to worry about minimum increases through the government. So is carbon pricing, which disproportionately affects small and medium sized businesses, and individuals in the middle class. Your covid policies were also a boon to the elites. Guys like Jeff Bezos doubled his wealth in a few years. You’re a cuck to authority.
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Where did you get 3 from? Your ass? Your ass has always been wrong!
They killed more than three people, although the Don't Tread on Me lady was trampled to death
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All of your sh*tlib policies are an attack on the middle class, completely supported by the elite, wealthy and powerful. Particularly mass immigration, which allows big corporations to not have to compete for labour and not have to raise wages and benefits. It depresses wages, and they only have to worry about minimum increases through the government. So is carbon pricing, which disproportionately affects small and medium sized businesses, and individuals in the middle class. Your covid policies were also a boon to the elites. Guys like Jeff Bezos doubled his wealth in a few years. You’re a cuck to authority.
You fought for years to reduce the taxes for the elites on the backs of working people because that's what your talking points told you to do. You have no credibility
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Where did you get 3 from? Your ass? Your ass has always been wrong!
They killed more than three people, although the Don't Tread on Me lady was trampled to death
The only person that died was an unarmed woman. You’re a propagandist, Goebbels would be proud.
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You fought for years to reduce the taxes for the elites on the backs of working people because that's what your talking points told you to do. You have no credibility
Lowering tax rates is not the problem. The problem is all of the tax deductions and write offs.
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You aren't fooling anyone by pretending those who died didn't die. Maybe yourself, because you're exceptionally easily fooled, but no one else.
Glad to see you realize that cucking for reduced taxes to the 1% was a terrible idea though. They certainly didn't trickle anything down to your minimum wage job like you hoped, eh?
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A bipartisan Senate report said at least seven people died in connection to the attempted insurrection.
But Libs of Tiktok told you just one died?
Whom to believe? 😂
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
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All of your sh*tlib policies are an attack on the middle class, completely supported by the elite, wealthy and powerful. Particularly mass immigration, which allows big corporations to not have to compete for labour and not have to raise wages and benefits. It depresses wages, and they only have to worry about minimum increases through the government. So is carbon pricing, which disproportionately affects small and medium sized businesses, and individuals in the middle class. Your covid policies were also a boon to the elites. Guys like Jeff Bezos doubled his wealth in a few years. You’re a cuck to authority.
Lol, this is all very comical coming from a guy who supports deregulation, opposes increasing taxes on corporations and is a syncophant for the billionaire class as a whole. I'm sure if I went back far enough I'd find you to be an enthusiastic supporter of offshoring too.
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Who would you rather have on our southern border, the US or Russia? If it was Russia, I bet your attitude toward NATO would do a 180. Eastern European countries that joined NATO know what it was like to live under the Russian boot and aren’t going to let it happen again. Even neutrals like Sweden and Finland have said enough and can’t afford to be neutral any longer.
The US didn’t invade Ukraine and bomb the crap out of the place, RUSSIA DID!
Ahh yes, the good old leopards don't eat my face argument. How profound and um... ethnocentric. Our guys are better in spite of their massive kill count because I'm untouched and they like me.
Well not for me. The meddling of the US and Britain turned the country I was born in into a shithole and we had no choice to leave when I was little. My mom had the good sense to put her foot down about never living in the US even though my dad was a partner in a big four accounting firm and could easily transfer to the States. I now thank my mom for her foresight and as my dad goes further and further into cognitive decline, it's the one thing he thanks her for as well on loop.
As I said, you seem to think the only criteria establishing who the good guys are is how they treat their neighbours because we are the neighbours. If you expand your horizons and look at the people in the world as other human beings with dreams and families, you'd see that the US is a massive aggressor.
But no, I don't expect you to see that as someone whose foremost thought about the Iraq war was that it made Iran powerful and not the complete destruction of another nation, using deceitful tactics, that killed an disputed but apparently a well estabslished 1/2 million people.
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Like 3 people out of something like 1200 were armed, and you want to pretend it was an armed “insurrection”. You’re a propagandist for the elite and powerful. Congratulations.
Ok, let's pretend only 3 people were armed even though as a mob they beat a cop to death.
They breached Congress with an open aim of stopping the vote. On what planet is that not considered an insurrection?
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Ahh yes, the good old leopards don't eat my face argument. How profound and um... ethnocentric. Our guys are better in spite of their massive kill count because I'm untouched and they like me.
Well not for me. The meddling of the US and Britain turned the country I was born in into a shithole and we had no choice to leave when I was little. My mom had the good sense to put her foot down about never living in the US even though my dad was a partner in a big four accounting firm and could easily transfer to the States. I now thank my mom for her foresight and as my dad goes further and further into cognitive decline, it's the one thing he thanks her for as well on loop.
As I said, you seem to think the only criteria establishing who the good guys are is how they treat their neighbours because we are the neighbours. If you expand your horizons and look at the people in the world as other human beings with dreams and families, you'd see that the US is a massive aggressor.
But no, I don't expect you to see that as someone whose foremost thought about the Iraq war was that it made Iran powerful and not the complete destruction of another nation, using deceitful tactics, that killed an disputed but apparently a well estabslished 1/2 million people.
So the fact that the US invaded Iraq makes Putin's invasion of Ukraine acceptable. Classic whataboutism. Regardless of how ill advised Iraq was, the US was not claiming someone else's country as their own with no intention of ever leaving. Invading Iraq was a poor strategic move that did a lot to destabilize the region but you also have to turn a blind eye to the crimes Saddam committed on his own people, including using chemical weapons on Iraq's Kurdish population. The world is not a nice place.
Russia invaded Crimea and the Donbas and now they want to claim the land corridor that connects them. Next it will be Odessa, the Black Sea's largest port which will cut Ukraine off completely from the Black Sea and turn it into a poor land locked country with a Russian puppet government, unless Putin decides to swallow the whole thing. But that's OK because it is in Russia's interest, right. Perhaps instead of blaming the US for everything you should recognize the courage and determination of the Ukraine people who have fought what was supposed to be the worlds second most powerful military to a standstill for what will be two years tomorrow. They may be using western weapons but they are the ones doing the fighting and dying to save their country. I really wonder how many Canadians love their country enough that they would be prepared to do the same thing.
Your anti Americanism is making you foolish.
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So the fact that the US invaded Iraq makes Putin's invasion of Ukraine acceptable. Classic whataboutism.
This is a classic strawman.
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Ahh yes, the good old leopards don't eat my face argument. How profound and um... ethnocentric. Our guys are better in spite of their massive kill count because I'm untouched and they like me.
Well not for me. The meddling of the US and Britain turned the country I was born in into a shithole and we had no choice to leave when I was little. My mom had the good sense to put her foot down about never living in the US even though my dad was a partner in a big four accounting firm and could easily transfer to the States. I now thank my mom for her foresight and as my dad goes further and further into cognitive decline, it's the one thing he thanks her for as well on loop.
As I said, you seem to think the only criteria establishing who the good guys are is how they treat their neighbours because we are the neighbours. If you expand your horizons and look at the people in the world as other human beings with dreams and families, you'd see that the US is a massive aggressor.
But no, I don't expect you to see that as someone whose foremost thought about the Iraq war was that it made Iran powerful and not the complete destruction of another nation, using deceitful tactics, that killed an disputed but apparently a well estabslished 1/2 million people.
No offence, but this post sounds like Putin himself could have wrote it. It reminds me of the social media Tweets Nora Loreto made- "Sure Hitler was bad and did terrible things, but US/UK imperialism is much worse!"
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So the fact that the US invaded Iraq makes Putin's invasion of Ukraine acceptable.
Oh Wilber, seems you missed the train to Pointsville entirely
Your anti Americanism is making you foolish.
Your inability to see non-Europeans as human beings is making you see the US with rose coloured glasses
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Oh Wilber, seems you missed the train to Pointsville entirely
Your inability to see non-Europeans as human beings is making you see the US with rose coloured glasses
So now I'm a racist. Of course I see non Europeans as humans. I also don't see the US with rose coloured glasses, they have many faults and deserve a lot of criticism. One thing they haven't done in almost 200 years is invade other countries and claimed them as their own. Not an once of sympathy from you for the people of Ukraine who are sacrificing everything to save their country.
You hate Americans so much you can't be objective.
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This is a classic strawman.
Explain. I'm not using the US invasion of Iraq to justify Putin's invasion of Ukraine. As we used to say in the school yard, two wrongs don't make a right.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHCKe_VWkAAKvzY?format=jpg&name=small)
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Not a once of sympathy from you for the people of Ukraine who are sacrificing everything to save their country.
Still making **** up to prove a point (aka strawman argument which should answer your question to BD as well).
Nah Wilber, you’re still not understanding my point and after two instances of twisting my words I think I’m done.
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Still making **** up to prove a point (aka strawman argument which should answer your question to BD as well).
Nah Wilber, you’re still not understanding my point and after two instances of twisting my words I think I’m done.
The US and Brits have meddled where they shouldn't and you may have good reason to disliked them. Unfortunately that has made objectivity very difficult for you.
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Today was the 2nd anniversary of the illegal and unprovoked invasion of the entire Ukraine. I saw a huge influx of Ukrainians in the North End converging at an old Ukrainian Church on McGregor Street, To date, over 400,000 Russians have become casualties of war. Morale is low. The Russians continue to try everything possible to keep on fighting, but have gained virtually no land for the past 2 years.
At this point, especially without US aid, the war is becoming a stalemate, where both sides are losing men, at a level not seen since the Second World War.
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The US and Brits have meddled where they shouldn't and you may have good reason to disliked them. Unfortunately that has made objectivity very difficult for you.
The US has meddled plenty but what it hasn't done is conquer another country and claim it as part of its own. Britain gave up its empire in the last century and unlike Russia, hasn't tried to get it back. Still no love for Ukraine but then it's in Russias interest so that's OK.
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The US hasn’t meddled in the last 200 years where you grew up and you may have personal reasons to like them.. Unfortunately that has made objectivity very difficult for you.
I have learned over the last several years that there is only ONE allowed narrative for any issue that’s being discussed/debated. If you stray at all from that allowed narrative, the media/powerful/elite will destroy you in any way they can. It never used to be that way and it’s a pretty scary time. If you stray from the allowed narrative and one “agreed” truth you are essentially scarlet lettered in society. Lately there are many issues that this pertains to. Russia/Ukraine, Gaza/Israel and covid are the latest and best examples, but there are others as well.
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I have learned over the last several years that there is only ONE allowed narrative for any issue that’s being discussed/debated. If you stray at all from that allowed narrative, the media/powerful/elite will destroy you in any way they can. It never used to be that way and it’s a pretty scary time. If you stray from the allowed narrative and one “agreed” truth you are essentially scarlet lettered in society. Lately there are many issues that this pertains to. Russia/Ukraine, Gaza/Israel and covid are the latest and best examples, but there are others as well.
Agree, and now they’re starting to even criminalize speech that goes against the mainstream narrative. In the age of social media I guess it’s the only way to prevent anyone speaking out against propaganda.
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Agree, and now they’re starting to even criminalize speech that goes against the mainstream narrative. In the age of social media I guess it’s the only way to prevent anyone speaking out against propaganda.
Examples?
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I have learned over the last several years that there is only ONE allowed narrative for any issue that’s being discussed/debated. If you stray at all from that allowed narrative, the media/powerful/elite will destroy you in any way they can. It never used to be that way and it’s a pretty scary time.
It used to be worse. Look up Joseph McCarthy in the USA.
The one difference back then, is that we didn't have dopes falling for low-effort conspiracy copypasta off the internet and then cheering for and making excuses for murderous dictators. There was a little bit more common sense.
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I have learned over the last several years that there is only ONE allowed narrative for any issue that’s being discussed/debated. If you stray at all from that allowed narrative, the media/powerful/elite will destroy you in any way they can. It never used to be that way and it’s a pretty scary time. If you stray from the allowed narrative and one “agreed” truth you are essentially scarlet lettered in society. Lately there are many issues that this pertains to. Russia/Ukraine, Gaza/Israel and covid are the latest and best examples, but there are others as well.
You probably don't remember how opponents on the war on Iraq were attacked and silenced because you agreed with it.
Also funny to see a pro-Israel poster who bleats about antisemitism constantly bemoan how the mainstream marginalizes opposition to Zionism (unless you're implying that pro-Israel voices are the ones being sidelined, which is too dumb even for you).
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It used to be worse.
No, it's worse now. Not only power structures like government are involved, but the mainstream media and big tech.
The one difference back then, is that we didn't have dopes falling for low-effort conspiracy copypasta off the internet and then cheering for and making excuses for murderous dictators.
"Conspiracy theories" and "excuses" are subjective. Remember how covid coming from a lab in China was considered a "conspiracy theory"? People were silenced for bringing that up as something that might have happened? I'm sure you do.
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You probably don't remember how opponents on the war on Iraq were attacked and silenced because you agreed with it.
Also funny to see a pro-Israel poster who bleats about antisemitism constantly bemoan how the mainstream marginalizes opposition to Zionism (unless you're implying that pro-Israel voices are the ones being sidelined, which is too dumb even for you).
It's gotten worse, and you've learned nothing. You've actually regressed.
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Hw soft do you have to be to consider anyone disagreeing with you to be "silencing" you?
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You probably don't remember how opponents on the war on Iraq were attacked and silenced because you agreed with it.
Also funny to see a pro-Israel poster who bleats about antisemitism constantly bemoan how the mainstream marginalizes opposition to Zionism (unless you're implying that pro-Israel voices are the ones being sidelined, which is too dumb even for you).
I was pretty vocal about opposing Canadian involvement in the Iraq War, but I never felt that there were people trying to silence me.
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It's gotten worse, and you've learned nothing. You've actually regressed.
You applauded students being doxxed and attacked by billionaires for statements that could be construed as pro-Hamas just a few months ago, the idea that you're a principled defender of free speech is completely absurd.
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I was pretty vocal about opposing Canadian involvement in the Iraq War, but I never felt that there were people trying to silence me.
Yes but you're a nobody. You didn't see anti-war voices given platforms in the media, people like the Dixie Chicks were blacklisted, Phil Donahue had his show cancelled for being anti-war, Michael Moore was booed by the "liberal" Hollywood elite at the Oscars, the list goes on and on.
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Yes but you're a nobody. You didn't see anti-war voices given platforms in the media, people like the Dixie Chicks were blacklisted, Phil Donahue had his show cancelled for being anti-war, Michael Moore was booed by the "liberal" Hollywood elite at the Oscars, the list goes on and on.
Many other celebrities spoke out against the Iraq invasion, most notably Madonna. Most celebrities came out of it unaffected. The reason the Dixie Chicks were primarily affected I believe, is they may have went too far, telling reporters in Europe that they were ashamed to be from the same state as the President. Considering the war was occurring at the time, many Americans viewed it as betraying America, whether right or wrong. We also have to keep in mind that the vast majority of the fan base were from rural Southern US areas, and they were played on country stations, which are notoriously conservative and have right of centre views.
It's debatable whether Donahue was cancelled due to his views on the Iraq War. Donahue had peaked in the late 80s, and his ratings had been going downhill for years.
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Many other celebrities spoke out against the Iraq invasion, most notably Madonna.
Yeah about that:
Two music videos were shot for the song, both directed by Swedish director Jonas Åkerlund. The first featured Madonna at a military-themed fashion show, depicting explosions and ending with her throwing a hand grenade at George W. Bush as he uses it to light a cigar. Prior to its release, the video caused controversy regarding its political, racial and religious implications, leading Madonna to release a statement explaining its concept. After the 2003 invasion of Iraq started, Madonna cancelled the release of the original music video, because of the political climate of the country at the time, and an edited version, featuring her in front of a backdrop of flags from around the world, was released instead. The original music video was later re-edited to remove any showing of Bush and had an official release in April 2023.
The reason the Dixie Chicks were primarily affected I believe, is they may have went too far, telling reporters in Europe that they were ashamed to be from the same state as the President. Considering the war was occurring at the time, many Americans viewed it as betraying America, whether right or wrong. We also have to keep in mind that the vast majority of the fan base were from rural Southern US areas, and they were played on country stations, which are notoriously conservative and have right of centre views.
You're literally making my argument for me.
It's debatable whether Donahue was cancelled due to his views on the Iraq War. Donahue had peaked in the late 80s, and his ratings had been going downhill for years.
His show on MSNBC had been on air less than a year and was the most watched show on the network.
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GWBush tried to get a parody website shut down by the Federal Elections Commission, saying there "ought to be limits to freedom." Then anti-war people were portrayed by current Putin-lovers as traitors who were working for the enemy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-11/29/002r-112999-idx.html
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GWBush tried to get a parody website shut down by the Federal Elections Commission, saying there "ought to be limits to freedom." Then anti-war people were portrayed by current Putin-lovers as traitors who were working for the enemy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-11/29/002r-112999-idx.html
It's hard to believe but when this was happening you were in your 30s. I was in my 20s.
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Examples?
Below is the article I was reading. We've criminialized holocaust denial and if you read further into the article, the possiblity exists that the criminalization of residential school denial would follow.
I think people who deny either are aholes, but it's a slipper slope to be taking.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada-criminalized-condoning-denying-or-downplaying-the-holocaust-is-it-working-1.6651817
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I was pretty vocal about opposing Canadian involvement in the Iraq War, but I never felt that there were people trying to silence me.
Probably because Canada didn't take part in the war, but in the US it was a different environment.
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Hw soft do you have to be to consider anyone disagreeing with you to be "silencing" you?
Call me soft, but with the way people are being ridiculed, slandered, doxxed and losing their jobs, I do feel on the Israel/Palestine issue that support for Palestine is being literally silenced.
I personally do feel silenced.
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Below is the article I was reading. We've criminialized holocaust denial and if you read further into the article, the possiblity exists that the criminalization of residential school denial would follow.
I think people who deny either are aholes, but it's a slipper slope to be taking.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada-criminalized-condoning-denying-or-downplaying-the-holocaust-is-it-working-1.6651817
I think Holocaust denial, or any denial of historical events should be illegal. The only examples I can think of are Jim Keegstra (who was teaching his students that Jews control the World), and Ernest Zundel (who was fiercely racist).
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I think Holocaust denial, or any denial of historical events should be illegal. The only examples I can think of are Jim Keegstra (who was teaching his students that Jews control the World), and Ernest Zundel (who was fiercely racist).
No doubt holocaust denial, residential school denial and slavery denial are rooted in racism but criminalizing a debate around historical events is not a move I can get behind. It sets precedence and creates a slippery slope that has no place in a free society.
I see these people like covid deniers. Dangerous, sure, but they have a right to voice their idiocy.
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No doubt holocaust denial, residential school denial and slavery denial are rooted in racism but criminalizing a debate around historical events is not a move I can get behind. It sets precedence and creates a slippery slope that has no place in a free society.
x
I see these people like covid deniers. Dangerous, sure, but they have a right to voice their idiocy.
If you have ever visited a concentration camp you would realize there is no debate. Denying the Holocaust is just an invitation for it to happen again. As the survivors and the people who knew them die off, it just makes it easier to believe it never happened or minimize what it really was.
There are things about Covid and the measures taken to deal with it that are debatable but it is not a valid comparison.
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Using your logic Wilber, we should also criminalize denial of residential schools and slavery. Where does it stop?
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I think Holocaust denial, or any denial of historical events should be illegal. The only examples I can think of are Jim Keegstra (who was teaching his students that Jews control the World), and Ernest Zundel (who was fiercely racist).
So if someone publicly expresses skepticism about a historical event or narrative relating to one they should be criminally charged?
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I think Holocaust denial, or any denial of historical events should be illegal.
Thoughts should not be illegal. The state should never be allowed to force you to believe in anything with the threat of force or imprisonment, etc.
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No doubt holocaust denial, residential school denial and slavery denial are rooted in racism but criminalizing a debate around historical events is not a move I can get behind. It sets precedence and creates a slippery slope that has no place in a free society.
I see these people like covid deniers. Dangerous, sure, but they have a right to voice their idiocy.
Agree. People have a right to be morons and to be wrong. The government has no business policing opinions, unless they cause or threaten real physical harm like violent threats or yelling fire in a crowded building.
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Using your logic Wilber, we should also criminalize denial of residential schools and slavery. Where does it stop?
I don't think opinions should be criminalized unless they are advocating violence but have no problem with people being held accountable for what they say in some fashion.
Holocaust denial may not advocate violence but it sure as hell justifies it.
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Thoughts should not be illegal. The state should never be allowed to force you to believe in anything with the threat of force or imprisonment, etc.
people can believe what they want, and it should not be criminal to believe that the Holocaust was fake. To publish this on a website, or give speeches to groups of people about the Holocaust being fake, should be illegal.
people like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson are finding out the hard way, that free speech has limitations. However, the laws are not strong enough in America. Stating that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation, and encouraging followers to harass the families of the victims should be met with prison time.
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Stating that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation, and encouraging followers to harass the families of the victims should be met with prison time.
There's a big difference between in the former and the latter.
Though in our hate crime legislation there is a legal out where speech that can actually be shown to be fact can't be charged with a crime. But should the government be in the business of policing every false opinion.
Alex Jones is an a-hole and a nut, but him having to pay out 1.5 billion to Sandy Hook families seems more vindictive than justice. But a lawsuit is different than something criminal.
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people can believe what they want, and it should not be criminal to believe that the Holocaust was fake. To publish this on a website, or give speeches to groups of people about the Holocaust being fake, should be illegal.
people like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson are finding out the hard way, that free speech has limitations. However, the laws are not strong enough in America. Stating that Sandy Hook was a false flag operation, and encouraging followers to harass the families of the victims should be met with prison time.
No, it should not be illegal to speak it or write it down. Stating that Sandy Hook is a false flag operation is not and should not be illegal. Encouraging people to harass people is illegal and should be.
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Slander and libel and fraud have been against the law for a long time.
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There's a big difference between in the former and the latter.
Though in our hate crime legislation there is a legal out where speech that can actually be shown to be fact can't be charged with a crime. But should the government be in the business of policing every false opinion.
Alex Jones is an a-hole and a nut, but him having to pay out 1.5 billion to Sandy Hook families seems more vindictive than justice. But a lawsuit is different than something criminal.
Alex jones isn't going to pay anything. He declared bankruptcy nearly immediately after the civil suit concluded. Jones needs to do some time in prison. It is in the best interests of society. Possibly for 5 years. He has caused so much pain and anguish to so many people.
If I was one of the parents of the Sandy Hook children, I would seriously think of putting a couple of bullets into his head.
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Slander and libel and fraud have been against the law for a long time.
Slander is a civil lawsuit (tort law). Tort law is different than criminal law.
We’re here discussing government overstepping boundaries. Alex Jones didn’t get arrested by the government he was sued personally.
There is no equivalent to criminalizing holocaust denial.
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Slander is a civil lawsuit (tort law). Tort law is different than criminal law.
We’re here discussing government overstepping boundaries. Alex Jones didn’t get arrested by the government he was sued personally.
There is no equivalent to criminalizing holocaust denial.
Jones's actions resulted in innocent people getting death threats. Trumps actions resulted in innocent people getting death threats. Should that be legal?
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Jones's actions resulted in innocent people getting death threats. Trumps actions resulted in innocent people getting death threats. Should that be legal?
Have you had a look at the list of criminal charges against Trump?? The comparison with Alex Jones is absurd.
As for Jones, he's despicable and deserved to be fired, sued and shunned, but no, I do not believe he acted criminally. We're getting into massive hypotheticals here but I think the only way to get him criminally is if someone listened to him, went out and actually inflicted violence on someone else, and it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the only reason they did that was because they listened to Jones. Even then, Jones didn't carry out the act so it's more negligence if anything.
I'll give you another example. I see people saying awful things about trans people, many of this forum, and unlike your histrionics about a Jewish holocaust in 2024, trans folks actually DO get murdered all the time.
I still think the aholes who say things about them have a right to say what they want. How about you?
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Have you had a look at the list of criminal charges against Trump?? The comparison with Alex Jones is absurd.
As for Jones, he's despicable and deserved to be fired, sued and shunned, but no, I do not believe he acted criminally. We're getting into massive hypotheticals here but I think the only way to get him criminally is if someone listened to him, went out and actually inflicted violence on someone else, and it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the only reason they did that was because they listened to Jones. Even then, Jones didn't carry out the act so it's more negligence if anything.
I'll give you another example. I see people saying awful things about trans people, many of this forum, and unlike your histrionics about a Jewish holocaust in 2024, trans folks actually DO get murdered all the time.
I still think the aholes who say things about them have a right to say what they want. How about you?
Threatening people's lives is a crime of its own, you don't have to carry out the threat for it to be a crime. So yes, he was inciting criminal behaviour.
https://www.laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-264.1.html
Trump's actions resulted in election officials being harassed and given death threats. I see little difference.
Hitler and Goebbels didn't kill anyone with their own hands either but plenty of Germans were willing to act on their hatred directed toward Jews and other minorities. They are enablers and provocateurs who use the worst in society for their own enrichment and ends.
Why should consequences only be civil
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Because the burden of proof is much higher. That’s why Iain Hunt is walking free even though there’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence against him that he killed his wife. You’re an ex cop I thought. You should know this.
You gonna answer me about criminalizing anti-trans speech since you’re so concerned about potential violence?
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As for Jones, he's despicable and deserved to be fired, sued and shunned, but no, I do not believe he acted criminally. We're getting into massive hypotheticals here but I think the only way to get him criminally is if someone listened to him, went out and actually inflicted violence on someone else, and it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the only reason they did that was because they listened to Jones. Even then, Jones didn't carry out the act so it's more negligence if anything.
A few of his listeners did indeed criminally harass and make death threats to the Sandy Hook victims. Unless I am mistaken, didn't someone shoot up the Comet Pizza that Jones was always going on about, falsely accusing the business of being involved in child sex trafficking?
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Can it be proven *beyond a reasonable doubt* that the only reason these people acted as they did was Jones? I’m no fan of him and I know he’s a POS who likely did incite hate but the burden of proof in criminal law is high.
So what’s your thoughts coolio on banning any debate around trans people since so many nut jobs listen to it and go out and kill trans people?
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Because the burden of proof is much higher. That’s why Iain Hunt is walking free even though there’s a mountain of circumstantial evidence against him that he killed his wife. You’re an ex cop I thought. You should know this.
You gonna answer me about criminalizing anti-trans speech since you’re so concerned about potential violence?
No, my son is the cop. I was a pilot.
I'm talking about making false claims about people that result in them being harassed, threatened and possibly attacked.
https://apnews.com/article/shootings-school-connecticut-alex-jones-waterbury-782e495a3ece4753d857a9b47d444385
https://news.yahoo.com/sandy-hook-parents-protected-isolation-232546104.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/sandy-hook-shooting-conspiracy-theorist-arrested-tormenting-families/story?id=68570486
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Still not answering my question about criminalizing discussions around transgenderism I see. I’ve asked Wilber twice now and coolio once. Seems like nobody wants to answer this.
Let’s face it, this has nothing to do with inciting hatred and endangering people. It’s about government limiting freedoms and you agreeing with it because you personally agree with it.
The heck with other groups who actually are getting murdered. They can pound sand.
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No, my son is the cop. I was a pilot.
I'm talking about making false claims about people that result in them being harassed, threatened and possibly attacked.
https://apnews.com/article/shootings-school-connecticut-alex-jones-waterbury-782e495a3ece4753d857a9b47d444385
https://news.yahoo.com/sandy-hook-parents-protected-isolation-232546104.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/sandy-hook-shooting-conspiracy-theorist-arrested-tormenting-families/story?id=68570486
I think that it's a dangerous path to go down if we start criminalizing speech that could potentially lead to harassment/violence. That could literally be anything. Any kind of speech could potentially lead to harassment/violence depending on who hears it, and if they're suffering from some sort of mental illness.
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PS, I believe the threshold for incitement is set quite high. As in directly inciting violence, not just spouting nonsense and influencing nut jobs. Thats why Trump is charged and Alex Jones isn’t. Trump outright encouraged the insurrection and didn’t say anything until well into the siege. Jones, as much of an idiot that he is, didn’t outright encourage his listeners to do anything as far as I’m aware.
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I think that it's a dangerous path to go down if we start criminalizing speech that could potentially lead to harassment/violence. That could literally be anything. Any kind of speech could potentially lead to harassment/violence depending on who hears it, and if they're suffering from some sort of mental illness.
It didn't potentially lead to harassment and violence, it did lead to it and there should be consequences other than civil suits.
Some of these people are mentally ill and others have just gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Either way, the likes of Jones and Trump encourage and use these people for their own gain.
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It didn't potentially lead to harassment and violence, it did lead to it and there should be consequences other than civil suits.
Some of these people are mentally ill and others have just gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Either way, the likes of Jones and Trump encourage and use these people for their own gain.
Should it be illegal to suggest that covid originated out of a lab in China? That could also potentially lead to violence or harassment. But it shouldn't be criminalized speech. You shouldn't be held responsible for other people's actions if you haven't specifically called for violence.
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Should it be illegal to suggest that covid originated out of a lab in China? That could also potentially lead to violence or harassment. But it shouldn't be criminalized speech. You shouldn't be held responsible for other people's actions if you haven't specifically called for violence.
Covid may have originated out of a lab but how would that lead to violence and to who? You should be held responsible if you deliberately tell lies that lead to people being victimized. Jones knew he was lying, he had absolutely no evidence to back up his absurd claims. Parents of those dead children were put through hell because of this lying A Hole, as if they needed any more put on them after having their kids shot to death in their schoolrooms.
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How quickly Wilber seems to have forgotten all the hate crimes against asians during covid. Yet nobody criminalized spouting nonsense about bio labs and ‘Chyna’
And still waiting on a response about criminalizing discussions around transgenderism given the number of hate crimes and murders.
What do you say Wilber?
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How quickly Wilber seems to have forgotten all the hate crimes against asians during covid. Yet nobody criminalized spouting nonsense about bio labs and ‘Chyna’
It's actually not nonsense, yet people were silenced, banned from social media etc for even mentioning the possibility.
FBI chief Christopher Wray says China lab leak most likely
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64806903
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How quickly Wilber seems to have forgotten all the hate crimes against asians during covid. Yet nobody criminalized spouting nonsense about bio labs and ‘Chyna’
And still waiting on a response about criminalizing discussions around transgenderism given the number of hate crimes and murders.
What do you say Wilber?
Who is criminalizing discussions?
It seems you think all those crimes are an acceptable price to pay. As long as you aren't one of the victims.
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So what’s your thoughts coolio on banning any debate around trans people since so many nut jobs listen to it and go out and kill trans people?
I could not care less about 0.5% of the population. I have never had many dealings with transgenders. I've never dealt with them in employment, my personal life, etc.
It is a non-issue. However, you will have to cite some examples of transgender people being killed in North America. I rarely follow the insignificant issue.
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How quickly Wilber seems to have forgotten all the hate crimes against asians during covid. Yet nobody criminalized spouting nonsense about bio labs and ‘Chyna’
I do not believe it was ever conclusively proven one way or the other where the COVID virus originated. A bigger concern would be to force children to get immunized against other diseases. Measles is making a return, after being almost unheard of for the past 40 years.
PS..."Chyna" is a deceased pro wrestler. She was great back in the late 90s.
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Who is criminalizing discussions?
You're joking right? You really are gonna pretend the last 3 pages didn't happen?
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I could not care less about 0.5% of the population. I have never had many dealings with transgenders. I've never dealt with them in employment, my personal life, etc.
It is a non-issue. However, you will have to cite some examples of transgender people being killed in North America. I rarely follow the insignificant issue.
So what % of the population does a group need to be for you to want to protect them from hate speech? I mean jews are just 1.4% of the population and you have a real hard on for criminalizing any speech directed their way.
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You're joking right? You really are gonna pretend the last 3 pages didn't happen?
No, and I repeat the question.
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So what % of the population does a group need to be for you to want to protect them from hate speech? I mean jews are just 1.4% of the population and you have a real hard on for criminalizing any speech directed their way.
It's a non-issue.
Besides, most transgenders are mentally ill.
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It's a non-issue.
So is antisemitism then. 1.4% of the population? who cares?
Besides, most transgenders are mentally ill.
"It's ok to murder people if they're mentally ill."-Coolio
Of coure the real irony here is you're clearly suffering from some sort of severe mental illness yourself.
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Of coure the real irony here is you're clearly suffering from some sort of severe mental illness yourself.
You not only suffer from severe mental health problems, but you have severe anger management problems.
Telling people repeatedly to kill themselves is not normal, Blackie. In fact, if one went through with it, you would possibly be looking at legal trouble.
241 (1) Everyone is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 14 years who, whether suicide ensues or not,
(a) counsels a person to die by suicide or abets a person in dying by suicide; or
(b) aids a person to die by suicide.
source: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-241.html
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You not only suffer from severe mental health problems, but you have severe anger management problems.
"Buh I know you are but what am I" -Coolio, certified schizo drunk driver
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71.1% of Transgender youth reported a major depressive disorder in the past 12 months, compared to 7.8% in the general population. 40% have considered suicide in the past year, compared to 5.1& of the general population. Finally, 37.8 (or more than 1/3) of transgender youth have attempted suicide, compared to 3.4% of the general population.
source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5630273/#:~:text=Around%2041%25%20of%20transgender%20students,cisgender%20youth%20in%20the%20sample.
Also worth noting, is that 100% of people who live in the Lethbridge CMA, diagnosed with untreated Antisocial Personality Disorder, and post on internet message forums are likely to die miserable and feeling alone and unloved. However, the sample size is relative small (one person).
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71.1% of Transgender youth reported a major depressive disorder in the past 12 months, compared to 7.8% in the general population. 40% have considered suicide in the past year, compared to 5.1& of the general population. Finally, 37.8 (or more than 1/3) of transgender youth have attempted suicide, compared to 3.4% of the general population.
source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5630273/#:~:text=Around%2041%25%20of%20transgender%20students,cisgender%20youth%20in%20the%20sample.
Oh I guess it should be ok to encourage people to murder them then. Dumbfuck.
Also worth noting, is that 100% of people who live in the Lethbridge CMA, diagnosed with untreated Antisocial Personality Disorder, and post on internet message forums are likely to die miserable and feeling alone and unloved. However, the sample size is relative small (one person).
Didn't you have to move back to Winnipeg after suffering some kind of mental breakdown?
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Moving to Winnipeg would just make it worse.
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Didn't you have to move back to Winnipeg after suffering some kind of mental breakdown?
I got blackout drunk when I was working in Lethbridge, and slept with your mother. It messed me up.
I am still in therapy.
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I got blackout drunk when I was working in Lethbridge, and slept with your mother. It messed me up.
I am still in therapy.
I think you're past the point where therapy can help you; you know what to do.
(btw my mom's been dead for years, dickless).
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Moving to Winnipeg would just make it worse.
I assume it's a court mandated thing.
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I assume it's a court mandated thing.
If I was a Lethbridge resident, i would definitely tip off the Lethbridge Police about your internet history. You have so much bottled up anger, that it would be wise if the RCMP (or CSIS) kept tabs on you, to prevent a shooting rampage.
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If I was a Lethbridge resident, i would definitely tip off the Lethbridge Police about your internet history. You have so much bottled up anger, that it would be wise if the RCMP (or CSIS) kept tabs on you, to prevent a shooting rampage.
Oh no are you gonna try and dox me next ya psycho?
Anyway, I don't have any bottled up anger, I vent it online at degenerate freaks like you.
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Anyway, I don't have any bottled up anger, I vent it online at degenerate freaks like you.
Thank you.
I consider it an obligation to distract you online. Otherwise, you could end up assaulting your neighbour, the mailman, girl guides, etc.
I am performing a community service than is beneficial to the good citizens of Lethbridge.
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Thank you.
I consider it an obligation to distract you online. Otherwise, you could end up assaulting your neighbour, the mailman, girl guides, etc.
I am performing a community service than is beneficial to the good citizens of Lethbridge.
Oh I see: you're spiralling out again. Time to re-up those meds and remember: you're not supposed to mix them with alcohol.
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Oh I see: you're spiralling out again. Time to re-up those meds and remember: you're not supposed to mix them with alcohol.
That's our Blackie!
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That's our Blackie!
That's our Coolio (totally fuckin' insane).
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I'll give you another example. I see people saying awful things about trans people, many of this forum, and unlike your histrionics about a Jewish holocaust in 2024, trans folks actually DO get murdered all the time.
That's a myth. Murders of trans people in Canada are extremely rare. The last one I can find is the murder of Julie Berman in December 2019. (and Berman wasn't killed by raging TERFs or MAGAheads. It was intimate partner violence, not hate fomented by reckless speech, that killed Berman.) A trans person was murdered in the UK in 2023, but there hadn't been murders of trans people in the UK for several years prior. In the US, there are usually 30 to 40 murders of trans people every year, which is actually a lower rate than the general populace (and most trans people murdered in the US are sex workers, who are at a high risk of violence for the same reasons that cisgender sex workers are at a high risk of violence.)
The idea that trans people are being murdered all the time is not supported by any evidence at all. It's one of those things that people repeat all the time because they've heard other people saying it so they assume it must be true. But it isn't. Like the mass graves at residential schools hysteria of a couple of years ago, many people are inclined to take it at face value because it agrees with their prior assumptions. And like the mass graves thing, people are afraid to question it publicly because questioning it publicly could get you branded as a Bad Person.
I still think the aholes who say things about them have a right to say what they want. How about you?
But I'm with you here. I think there's actually a strong parallel between the silencing of pro-Palestinian voices and the silencing of gender-critical voices. Not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic, and people who advocate for women-only spaces aren't all transphobes. But accusations of transphobia and antisemitism are a really handy stick with which to beat people who advocate for Palestinians or women's rights.
-k