Canadian Politics Today
Beyond Canada => The World => Topic started by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2022, 10:43:37 pm
-
It has begun.
-
It has begun.
Yeah, I thought it was funny---or at least it would be funny if it weren't so damned serious---how they claim they're intervening to protect the two separatist regions in the east of the country, yet they've attacked targets far away from Ukraine's eastern border or far from where the Russians claim to be "protecting" the inhabitants.
Putin's warning to the west was particularly striking. He stopped short of threatening to nuke the US or NATO allies in the event of intervention.
I wonder how long before it's over? I give Ukraine's sovereignty---such as it is---another 72 hours.
-
Is it just me or is this, on the face of it, a disastrous move for Russia ?
-
:De
Is it just me or is this, on the face of it, a disastrous move for Russia ?
Certainly risky. It could become another Afghanistan for them. It also depends on how serious the rest of the world is about sanctions.
-
NATO will have no choice but to build up forces in Western Europe again. The Cold War is back.
-
:De
Certainly risky. It could become another Afghanistan for them. It also depends on how serious the rest of the world is about sanctions.
I wonder what this is doing to the business of laundering oligarch money coming out of Russia? It could be better for for all we know.
-
I wonder what this is doing to the business of laundering oligarch money coming out of Russia? It could be better for for all we know.
It's about Russia getting its empire back and Putin becoming Vladimir the First.
-
World response has been weak-kneed.
Russia should not be allowed to participate or host any world events.
Russians should have their assets frozen abroad and be banned from doing any business.
So far, the sanctions have been fairly soft.
The toughest stance has been an F1 driver who says he is boycotting the race in Russia. Good on him.
https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/24/vettel-will-not-race-russian-gp/
-
If only libtards hadn't severely restricted our oil and gas industry here and in the United States. We could supply enough energy so that North America and all of Europe could bypass all of Russia's energy exports. Heckuva job libtards.
-
If only libtards hadn't severely restricted our oil and gas industry here and in the United States. We could supply enough energy so that North America and all of Europe could bypass all of Russia's energy exports. Heckuva job libtards.
Do you really think your use of insulting labels makes some kind of argument?
That said, Canada could be making a killing if we could export other than to the US but instead, other countries will be getting richer.
-
Canada in this case means that industry owned by 70% foreign actors
Including
Oligarchs
https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/billionaire-russian-oligarch-igor-makarov-takes-major-stake-in-calgary-natural-gas-producer-spartan-delta
-
Canada in this case means that industry owned by 70% foreign actors
Including
Oligarchs
https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/billionaire-russian-oligarch-igor-makarov-takes-major-stake-in-calgary-natural-gas-producer-spartan-delta
Wonder how he will like his Canadian assets frozen.
-
Wonder how he will like his Canadian assets frozen.
I don’t trust the world’s governments to take much solid action against Russia.
-
Wonder how he will like his Canadian assets frozen.
You don’t think he’s already anticipated this? Considering the soaring price of oil and gas, and that Europe depends on 40% of it from Russia, I don’t think he cares much about it short term.
-
You don’t think he’s already anticipated this? Considering the soaring price of oil and gas, and that Europe depends on 40% of it from Russia, I don’t think he cares much about it short term.
The UK has announced a complete crackdown on Russian assets including possible exclusion from the SWIFT banking network. Th oligarchs will not be happy.
Without access to SWIFT, Russia and its financial institutions would be effectively cut off from most international business transactions. For example, Russia would be unable to secure profits from international sales of its oil and gas production — deals that comprise more than 40% of the country’s revenue.
-
Is it just me or is this, on the face of it, a disastrous move for Russia ?
Not really, if they end up gaining territory.
-
furtherance of the BigLie: shadyMember's heeero Trump blames Russian invasion of Ukraine on... the 'rigged election'
Trump traced Russian leader Vladimir Putin’s decision to invade Ukraine back to the 2020 presidential election. “As an American, I am angry and saddened. It happened because of a rigged election.”
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/07/12/NTRE/ghows-AR-70cf5d25-c9a5-7204-e053-0100007fc17d-b0f7eeea.jpeg)
-
Not really, if they end up gaining territory.
Who benefits from more 'territory' ?
-
furtherance of the BigLie: shadyMember's heeero Trump blames Russian invasion of Ukraine on... the 'rigged election'
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authoring/2018/07/12/NTRE/ghows-AR-70cf5d25-c9a5-7204-e053-0100007fc17d-b0f7eeea.jpeg)
It took Trump to get deadbeat NATO countries to start paying their fair share. Thanks though for your idiotic anti oil and gas policies. They really set up Putin in a perfect position!
-
Who benefits from more 'territory' ?
Ukraine has one of the biggest natural gas deposits in Europe.
-
Ukraine has one of the biggest natural gas deposits in Europe.
Now that is an answer.
-
Chrystia Freeland is a terrible phony speaker and talks to Canadians like they're 3 years old.
-
But look what happens when the stupid people don't understand the conversation.
-
Chrystia Freeland is a terrible phony speaker and talks to Canadians like they're 3 years old.
She’s speaking directly to you….
-
But look what happens when the stupid people don't understand the conversation.
Look at what happens when stupid people are in charge of our government.
-
She’s speaking directly to you….
why are you so purposefully confrontational... you phackingIngrate!
-
My hope is the Ukraine can prolong their resistance and really start to bleed the Russian army. They don’t have the resources to be deployed for a long period of time, and it could give the west time to sneak in weapons, especially anti-tank weapons into the country.
-
Apparently Italy, Germany and Belgium are dragging their feet on using the ‘swift’ financial system to really take a toll on Russia. Somebody needs to kick them in the ass.
-
Apparently Italy, Germany and Belgium are dragging their feet on using the ‘swift’ financial system to really take a toll on Russia. Somebody needs to kick them in the ass.
Apparently it is run out of Belgium.
-
Apparently it is run out of Belgium.
Well hopefully they get pressured to allow that type of sanction. From what I read it could have a bigger impact than anything else.
-
She’s speaking directly to you….
I'm not the one who throws toddler tantrums every 5 seconds.
You're incapable of disagreeing with anyone like a grown adult so i guess she speaking to you. I'm embarrassed for you.
-
why are you so purposefully confrontational... you phackingIngrate!
He's a giant loser.
-
Wow this thread filled up quickly...
I think this will hurt Russia, too. When a leader can no longer buy off his inner circle with power, privileges, and/or money, they can turn on him very quickly. The sanctions will **** off his inner circle, and personally, I give Putin about six months. However, the eastern Ukraine will have been occupied by Russian forces and a puppet regime will have been carefully placed in Kiev. Putin will be gone but the damage will be done.
[on a very less important note, why are some reporters (particularly American ones) pronouncing the name of the capital to be "KEEV" instead of "KEE-YEV"?]
-
Russian Grand Prix cancelled. I wonder how much the drivers had to do with it. Seb Vettel is a class act.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/feb/24/f1-russian-grand-prix-remains-on-calendar-despite-invasion-of-ukraine
-
Ukraine has offered Russia a non-aligned status. It’s apparently been taken into consideration.
-
Ukraine has offered Russia a non-aligned status. It’s apparently been taken into consideration.
Non aligned at the point of a gun. How cynical.
-
Non aligned at the point of a gun. How cynical.
Well, if it stops the war, it’s a good thing. Maybe all Putin ever wanted was a guarantee that NATO wouldn’t expand into Ukraine.
-
Russia has now threatened Finland and Sweden if they try to join NATO. How much appeasement is too much?
-
Well, if it stops the war, it’s a good thing. Maybe all Putin ever wanted was a guarantee that NATO wouldn’t expand into Ukraine.
A society does not survive by making itself inoffensive to its enemies. The Russians want the Ukraine obedient. Not aligned with NATO or the US isn't enough for Vlad the Impaler. He wants a puppet state. Zelensky will be forced to resign to make way for a more pro (very pro) Russian president. Then Russian military bases will go up across the Ukraine, just to make sure of this hypothetical president's obedience. It'll be like the reinstatement of the Brezhnev Doctrine.
-
A society does not survive by making itself inoffensive to its enemies. The Russians want the Ukraine obedient. Not aligned with NATO or the US isn't enough for Vlad the Impaler. He wants a puppet state. Zelensky will be forced to resign to make way for a more pro (very pro) Russian president. Then Russian military bases will go up across the Ukraine, just to make sure of this hypothetical president's obedience. It'll be like the reinstatement of the Brezhnev Doctrine.
Ever heard of Switzerland? There’s a number of other countries that have non-aligned status for decades.
-
Ever heard of Switzerland? There’s a number of other countries that have non-aligned status for decades.
Exceptions to the rule. Switzerland was and still is, armed to the teeth. You can't be neutral and unarmed or impotent, especially if Russia is next door. The Nazis didn't invade Switzerland in WW2 was because they would have become bogged down. Nowadays, Switzerland's neighbors are barely capable of defending themselves on their own, hence the existence of NATO. Therefore, Switzerland is an exception that actually proves the rule.
PS about Switzerland: every Swiss man has to do a year's training in the Swiss Army. After that, as a going-away present, they keep their automatic rifle at home (but not the ammunition, that's store in armories around the country). The whole point of it is to keep the country neutral and free; not by appeasing its neighbors but by making it costly to anyone thinking of invading it. There's a difference between a country that's non aligned by choice and one that is non aligned at gunpoint. Which would you rather be?
PPS Russian troops have already entered the suburbs of Kiev, pushing toward the government center.
-
Exceptions to the rule. Switzerland was and still is, armed to the teeth. You can't be neutral and unarmed or impotent, especially if Russia is next door. The Nazis didn't invade Switzerland in WW2 was because they would have become bogged down. Nowadays, Switzerland's neighbors are barely capable of defending themselves on their own, hence the existence of NATO. Therefore, Switzerland is an exception that actually proves the rule.
PS about Switzerland: every Swiss man has to do a year's training in the Swiss Army. After that, as a going-away present, they keep their automatic rifle at home (but not the ammunition, that's store in armories around the country). The whole point of it is to keep the country neutral and free; not by appeasing its neighbors but by making it costly to anyone thinking of invading it. There's a difference between a country that's non aligned by choice and one that is non aligned at gunpoint. Which would you rather be?
Switzerland also preserves its neutrality by letting the worst people in the world stash their ill-gotten gains in its banks.
-
Switzerland also preserves its neutrality by letting the worst people in the world stash their ill-gotten gains in its banks.
I think the country is kept free more because of its difficulty to conquer than its banks. There are plenty of other banks in the world where the rich stick their "ill gotten gains". Like the Caymans (which as a colony is protected by the UK).
What of it? And since we should stick to the point, the Ukraine is not Switzerland. If I were to make a comparison of a "non aligned" country that is actually applicable to this situation, it would be the Republic of Czechoslovakia in 1938.
-
Finland and Sweden also have non-aligned status.
-
Finland and Sweden also have non-aligned status.
Finland didn't, during WW2. They were invaded by the USSR and by Nazi Germany. Finns fought on both sides.
And as far as Sweden being neutral in WW2, what of it? As far as Swiss neutrality over the years, what of that as well? You've got the fishing pole out and only red herrings are coming up.
-
Finland didn't, during WW2. They were invaded by the USSR and by Nazi Germany. Finns fought on both sides.
And as far as Sweden being neutral in WW2, what of it? As far as Swiss neutrality over the years, what of that as well? You've got the fishing pole out and only red herrings are coming up.
I’m not referring to world war 2, I’m taking about the decades following, and at the present time.
-
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
-
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
I’m not referring to world war 2, I’m taking about the decades following, and at the present time.
In which case the situation is definitely not comparable to the present invasion of the Ukraine. Sweden is not NATO but it's part of the EU, most of which is under the umbrella of NATO. In 2022, as in the 1940s, Switzerland is too difficult to invade and conquer. It would be a bloodbath for any idiot deciding to.
Now can we stop with the red herrings? The non aligned countries you keep fishing for aren't the Ukraine. There are similarities with other countries present and past, but the ones you have mentioned are not in similar situations.
I'll reiterate: non aligned or aligned, a country cannot defend itself by pleasing its neighbors, particularly hostile ones. Period.
I believe, Black Dog, you nailed it. At least you're not in favor of appeasing belligerent powers.
-
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
That would be ideal, but that’s not always the case in the real world. Things aren’t always fair. Here’s an idea, since you’re so gung ho for war, maybe you should head over their and fight. Instead of insisting other people do so.
-
Well, if it stops the war, it’s a good thing. Maybe all Putin ever wanted was a guarantee that NATO wouldn’t expand into Ukraine.
Stop a war he should never have started.
I think he is surprised at the resistance, both by Ukraine and in Russia itself and is getting cold feet.
Ukraine could turn into another Afghanistan for Putin.
-
Finland and Sweden also have non-aligned status.
Sweden is definitely aligned with the West and has built up its military and reintroduced compulsory military service because of the Russian threat to the region. Switzerland also has compulsory military service as do Finland and all the Scandinavian countries.
-
That would be ideal, but that’s not always the case in the real world. Things aren’t always fair. Here’s an idea, since you’re so gung ho for war, maybe you should head over their and fight. Instead of insisting other people do so.
Funny that I, a guy who is broadly against war and foreign military interventions of any kind, is being accused of being "gung ho for war" by a guy who was an Iraq war cheerleader. You'd think that would teach you some humility with regards to opining on these things.
-
Funny that I, a guy who is broadly against war and foreign military interventions of any kind, is being accused of being "gung ho for war" by a guy who was an Iraq war cheerleader. You'd think that would teach you some humility with regards to opining on these things.
You’d think you would have learned as well. At least I have. You, not so much.
-
Finland didn't, during WW2. They were invaded by the USSR and by Nazi Germany. Finns fought on both sides.
And as far as Sweden being neutral in WW2, what of it? As far as Swiss neutrality over the years, what of that as well? You've got the fishing pole out and only red herrings are coming up.
Finland wasn't invaded by Germany, it joined Germany in an effort to get back the territory lost to the Soviets in the Winter War.
-
You’d think you would have learned as well. At least I have. You, not so much.
Why would I need to learn anything, I was the guy who was right about Iraq. You should have listened to me then and you should listen to me now instead of building silly strawmen of what you think my position on this conflict is.
-
Why would I need to learn anything, I was the guy who was right about Iraq. You should have listened to me then and you should listen to me now instead of building silly strawmen of what you think my position on this conflict is.
You’re the one downplaying a potential peaceful solution to this conflict, so that you can cheer on a continued war.
-
Finland wasn't invaded by Germany, it joined Germany in an effort to get back the territory lost to the Soviets in the Winter War.
Finland fought the Nazis in the Lapland War of 1944.
-
You’re the one downplaying a potential peaceful solution to this conflict, so that you can cheer on a continued war.
Oh look another strawman. You really suck at this.
-
Oh look another strawman. You really suck at this.
It’s exactly what you did. Ukraine offering non-aligned status is a legitimate way to possibly end the conflict.
-
Stop a war he should never have started.
I think he is surprised at the resistance, both by Ukraine and in Russia itself and is getting cold feet.
Ukraine could turn into another Afghanistan for Putin.
I agree. I think it’s becoming much more difficult than anticipated.
-
It’s exactly what you did. Ukraine offering non-aligned status is a legitimate way to possibly end the conflict.
It's not cheering on a war to point out that the solution isn't going to work, you piece of garbage. The "potential peaceful solution" has already been rejected by the Russian imperialists because they aren't interested in simply keeping Ukraine out of NATO. You should try listening to what these people are actually saying.
-
It's not cheering on a war to point out that the solution isn't going to work, you piece of garbage. The "potential peaceful solution" has already been rejected by the Russian imperialists because they aren't interested in simply keeping Ukraine out of NATO. You should try listening to what these people are actually saying.
How do you know it’s not going to work? It might, or it might not. It’s worked for other countries. Sometimes I think you just try to be difficult.
-
Finland and Sweden also have non-aligned status.
The difference is that a sovereign country shouldn’t have to make that decision under threat of invasion?
Are you really that dumb that you don’t understand, or do you take the view that Russia had a right to demand that sort of thing?
-
How do you know it’s not going to work? It might, or it might not. It’s worked for other countries. Sometimes I think you just try to be difficult.
"But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Zelensky “is simply lying” when he offers to discuss non-aligned status for Ukraine. Lavrov said Zelensky “missed the opportunity” to discuss a neutral status for Ukraine in NATO when Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed it."
link (https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/kremlin-says-it-will-analyze-ukraines-offer-to-discuss-non-aligned-nato-status/)
-
"But Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Zelensky “is simply lying” when he offers to discuss non-aligned status for Ukraine. Lavrov said Zelensky “missed the opportunity” to discuss a neutral status for Ukraine in NATO when Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed it."
link (https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/kremlin-says-it-will-analyze-ukraines-offer-to-discuss-non-aligned-nato-status/)
There’s been differing reports. They had agreed to peace talks.
That agreement came in response to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s offer earlier in the day to discuss non-aligned status for Ukraine.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548
-
There’s been differing reports. They had agreed to peace talks.
That agreement came in response to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s offer earlier in the day to discuss non-aligned status for Ukraine.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-united-nations-kyiv-6ccba0905f1871992b93712d3585f548
Same thread: "The Kremlin accepted Kyiv’s offer to hold talks, but it appeared to be an effort to squeeze concessions out of Ukraine’s embattled president instead of a gesture toward a diplomatic solution."
Anyway I don't think the NATO stuff was every anything but pretext when you consider his speech the other day in which he claimed Ukraine as part of historic Russia. Now that they've invaded, they won't stop until they've replaced Zelensky and replaced him with a pro-Kremlin puppet.
-
It’s exactly what you did. Ukraine offering non-aligned status is a legitimate way to possibly end the conflict.
Nothing at the point of a gun after an unprovoked attack is legitimate.
I suppose you also approve of confessions obtained by torture.
-
Nothing at the point of a gun after an unprovoked attack is legitimate.
I suppose you also approve of confessions obtained by torture.
It’s legitimate in that it could lead to a peaceful solution. Yes, sometimes, depending on the circumstances.
-
Putin now calling Zelensky a Nazi.
A Jewish Nazi, how novel.
-
It’s legitimate in that it could lead to a peaceful solution. Yes, sometimes, depending on the circumstances.
Ok Ivan.
-
Ok Ivan.
Weren’t you the one complaining about name calling etc?
-
Putin objecting to NATO at his border is a legitimate concern, whether people like it or not.
-
Putin objecting to NATO at his border is a legitimate concern, whether people like it or not.
It is a legitimate concern but his territorial aggression toward Ukraine in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine also makes a good case for Ukraine wanting to join NATO. Ukraine has never presented a threat to Russia. Putin is a real threat to the sovereignty of many former Soviet republics.
-
Weren’t you the one complaining about name calling etc?
Point taken. I just don't know how any sane person could think this would be a negotiation.
-
It is a legitimate concern but his territorial aggression toward Ukraine in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine also makes a good case for Ukraine wanting to join NATO. Ukraine has never presented a threat to Russia. Putin is a real threat to the sovereignty of many former Soviet republics.
Yes, Ukraine has never posed a threat, but NATO has, in Putin’s opinion. He’s watch as NATO has expanded and moved closer and closer to his borders, all while Russia has not been aggressive. That changed in 2014. NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, yet NATO remained in place and expanded significantly even when Russia was insignificant.
-
Yes, Ukraine has never posed a threat, but NATO has, in Putin’s opinion. He’s watch as NATO has expanded and moved closer and closer to his borders, all while Russia has not been aggressive. That changed in 2014. NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, yet NATO remained in place and expanded significantly even when Russia was insignificant.
Shady thinks NATO will invade Russia! LOL
-
Yes, Ukraine has never posed a threat, but NATO has, in Putin’s opinion. He’s watch as NATO has expanded and moved closer and closer to his borders, all while Russia has not been aggressive. That changed in 2014. NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, yet NATO remained in place and expanded significantly even when Russia was insignificant.
Putin as a goon and gangster and it is now looking like he is unstable, threatening nukes, Sweden and Finland and even destabilizing the ISS.
He is either going off the deep end or getting desperate.
Still not an excuse for an unprovoked attack on a neighbour. If Ukraine somehow comes out of this independent, guaranteed they will want to join Nato now.
-
Countries bordering Russia have asked to join NATO for the very reason Putin is showing us now.
-
Putin as a goon and gangster and it is now looking like he is unstable, threatening nukes, Sweden and Finland and even destabilizing the ISS.
He is either going off the deep end or getting desperate.
Still not an excuse for an unprovoked attack on a neighbour. If Ukraine somehow comes out of this independent, guaranteed they will want to join Nato now.
I’m not saying it’s an excuse, but the west should start to understand how he thinks, what he perceives as threats, etc.
-
Countries bordering Russia have asked to join NATO for the very reason Putin is showing us now.
Unfortunately that’s only going to lead to more conflict.
-
Apparently it is run out of Belgium.
The EU hasn’t kicked Russia out of the SWIFT banking system. These sanctions will be the minimal ones possible to say that they are “doing something “. Greedy capitalists rule the day.
-
Unfortunately that’s only going to lead to more conflict.
Do you seriously think the Baltic countries would be safe now if they weren't in NATO? Watching the Ukraine is confirmation they were right to join. The idea of all the nations of NATO agreeing to invade Russia is ludicrous.
-
The EU hasn’t kicked Russia out of the SWIFT banking system. These sanctions will be the minimal ones possible to say that they are “doing something “. Greedy capitalists rule the day.
Financially it would be the nuclear option. Might be better to keep it in reserve but hopefully they are seriously thinking of using it
-
Do you seriously think the Baltic countries would be safe now if they weren't in NATO? Watching the Ukraine is confirmation they were right to join. The idea of all the nations of NATO agreeing to invade Russia is ludicrous.
Are you willing to risk an actual world war over Russia retaking a Baltic state? Because that’s what would happen if the Baltic states become part of NATO and Russia invades. These kinds of alliances are how world war 1 started. I would much rather them not be in NATO and reserve the nuclear option of the swift banking sanctions in response if they do invade one of the Baltic states.
-
Are you willing to risk an actual world war over Russia retaking a Baltic state? Because that’s what would happen if the Baltic states become part of NATO and Russia invades. These kinds of alliances are how world war 1 started. I would much rather them not be in NATO and reserve the nuclear option of the swift banking sanctions in response if they do invade one of the Baltic states.
LOL
Shady doesn’t even know that the Baltic countries are already a part of NATO!!!
LOL
-
Here you go Shady. I highlighted the Baltic countries for you, as you probably aren’t even aware of the countries we’re talking about.
NATO Members:
ALBANIA (2009)
BELGIUM (1949)
BULGARIA (2004)
CANADA (1949)
CROATIA (2009)
CZECH REPUBLIC (1999)
DENMARK (1949)
ESTONIA (2004)
FRANCE (1949)
GERMANY (1955)
GREECE (1952)
HUNGARY (1999)
ICELAND (1949)
ITALY (1949)
LATVIA (2004)
LITHUANIA (2004)
LUXEMBOURG (1949)
MONTENEGRO (2017)
NETHERLANDS (1949)
NORTH MACEDONIA (2020)
NORWAY (1949)
POLAND (1999)
PORTUGAL (1949)
ROMANIA (2004)
SLOVAKIA (2004)
SLOVENIA (2004)
SPAIN (1982)
TURKEY (1952)
THE UNITED KINGDOM (1949)
THE UNITED STATES (1949)
-
I believe Latvia and Estonia are even on the dark side of the Balkans (where the artificial Christmas tree was invented because trees are extinct).
-
It's amazing these people are so gullible that, even though they must must know themselves they haven't a clue what they're talking about, they'll still argue against democracy without a second thought.
The internet is a helluva drug.
-
Are you willing to risk an actual world war over Russia retaking a Baltic state? Because that’s what would happen if the Baltic states become part of NATO and Russia invades. These kinds of alliances are how world war 1 started. I would much rather them not be in NATO and reserve the nuclear option of the swift banking sanctions in response if they do invade one of the Baltic states.
Is Russia willing to risk an actual world war over a Baltic State? That's what NATO is all about, preventing wars. Why are none of these states asking Russia for protection from the West? Think about how the last world war started. No one said no over the Rhineland. No one said no over Austria. No one said no over the Sudetenland. No one said no to Czechoslovakia. By the time Poland came along it was too late to say no without a war.
If the West can't agree to ban Russia from Swift, what is the chance of them going to war?
-
Is Russia willing to risk an actual world war over a Baltic State? That's what NATO is all about, preventing wars. Why are none of these states asking Russia for protection from the West? Think about how the last world war started. No one said no over the Rhineland. No one said no over Austria. No one said no over the Sudetenland. No one said no to Czechoslovakia. By the time Poland came along it was too late to say no without a war.
If the West can't agree to ban Russia from Swift, what is the chance of them going to war?
You’re debating someone about NATO who is completely ignorant about which countries even make up NATO and is either too dumb or lazy to use Google to find out.
The ignorance is absolutely amazing.
-
The worst part of all of this is that thanks to Joe Biden’s infantile energy policy, the United States is now in the position where it needs to import 500,000 barrels a day from Russia. Who knows how many barrels Canada is importing. Because we’d rather have Russia produce the emissions to produce the energy we need so that our leaders can say we cut emissions. Even if it means enriching somebody like Putin, and financing his army. It’s so idiotic.
-
The worst part of all of this is that thanks to Joe Biden’s infantile energy policy, the United States is now in the position where it needs to import 500,000 barrels a day from Russia. Who knows how many barrels Canada is importing. Because we’d rather have Russia produce the emissions to produce the energy we need so that our leaders can say we cut emissions. Even if it means enriching somebody like Putin, and financing his army. It’s so idiotic.
The best part is the US might have to re evaluate Keystone.
It is idiotic that we help make others rich at our own expense.
-
The best part is the US might have to re evaluate Keystone.
It is idiotic that we help make others rich at our own expense.
Definitely. We need an operation warp speed involving oil and gas production.
-
Big news. Italy and Germany are now on board with the swift financial sanctions.
-
Until it gets to the point where Canadian, European and American companies are banned from doing business in Russia, the minor sanctions won’t do much.
-
The worst part of all of this is that thanks to Joe Biden’s infantile energy policy, the United States is now in the position where it needs to import 500,000 barrels a day from Russia. Who knows how many barrels Canada is importing.
500,000 barrels a day is like 7% of the U.S.'s total crude imports. By contrast the U.S. imports 4.5 MILLION BpD from Canada. It's not nothing but it's not even close to the biggest. Canada imports next to nothing from Russia.
Definitely. We need an operation warp speed involving oil and gas production.
The issue isn't our levels of production (U.S. production hit an all-time high in 2021) it's that oil companies like Chevron and Irving love Russian oil because it's lighter and thus cheaper and easier to refine than heavy crude from Canada. If you got your wish, prices at the pump would go up even more as producers pass the increased refining costs onto consumers, who can't seem to get enough of giant fuel inefficient trucks and SUVS. The smarter thing is to reduce our oil and gas consumption altogether.
-
Putin now calling Zelensky a Nazi.
A Jewish Nazi, how novel.
Apparently even Israelis call one another Nazi's on occassion.
Some unrest was reported Monday night in the cloistered ultra-Orthodox Jerusalem neighborhood of Mea Shearim, with several dozen residents holding violent protests against police, and authorities reportedly dispersing the crowds with stun grenades.
Videos published online showed people hooting, whistling and hollering “Nazi” at police patrolling the neighborhood.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-disperse-violent-protesters-in-jerusalem-ultra-orthodox-neighborhood/
-
500,000 barrels a day is like 7% of the U.S.'s total crude imports. By contrast the U.S. imports 4.5 MILLION BpD from Canada. It's not nothing but it's not even close to the biggest. Canada imports next to nothing from Russia.
Plus, it’s not significantly different than under Trump…. So why would it be “Biden’s failure”?
LOL
-
500,000 barrels a day is like 7% of the U.S.'s total crude imports. By contrast the U.S. imports 4.5 MILLION BpD from Canada. It's not nothing but it's not even close to the biggest. Canada imports next to nothing from Russia.
The issue isn't our levels of production (U.S. production hit an all-time high in 2021) it's that oil companies like Chevron and Irving love Russian oil because it's lighter and thus cheaper and easier to refine than heavy crude from Canada. If you got your wish, prices at the pump would go up even more as producers pass the increased refining costs onto consumers, who can't seem to get enough of giant fuel inefficient trucks and SUVS. The smarter thing is to reduce our oil and gas consumption altogether.
Yes, and that 7% could be reduced to zero. It could be reduced to zero in Europe as well with increased production. It’s policies and politicians you support that ceded Europe’s energy needs to Russia, which has the world in its current crisis. You people really need to sit this one out, you’ve caused enough damage.
-
The Biden administration doesn’t want to put sanctions on Russia’s energy sector because it will hurt Americans. Which is true. But that’s the box progressives have put much of the west. Their policies and strengthened and enriched Putin.
-
What a group of useful idiots.
[attachimg=1]
-
Biden gave intelligence to China, which then gave it to Russia. What a clown show.
in December, U.S. officials got intelligence showing Beijing had shared the information with Moscow, telling the Russians that the United States was trying to sow discord
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/us/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine.html?fbclid=IwAR2jF00qVAl0dQ4MOiLz73WaI8BVKHMcVyXGPWgIjdVvUMkDD_QopL3KzN0
-
It now seems like taking Kiev is a little more expensive (in lives/materiel) than the Russians would have initially thought. Zelensky has not fled the country and people are resisting. I hope it gives Putin a good headache. Still, it won't be long now. I'm no military strategist, but I'm sure the Ukraine cannot hold out forever with Russian troops all over.
-
Yes, and that 7% could be reduced to zero.
Not without significantly increasing costs for producers and consumers alike, or did you just ignore the reason why anyone in NA imports any Russian crude?
It could be reduced to zero in Europe as well with increased production.
Production from where, exactly?
You people really need to sit this one out, you’ve caused enough damage.
You first, Gulf War boy.
-
The "liberal media," folks. (https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/1497609423321186314?s=20&t=tyam-vUq8ufYfgq1KWHSXg)
-
It now seems like taking Kiev is a little more expensive (in lives/materiel) than the Russians would have initially thought. Zelensky has not fled the country and people are resisting. I hope it gives Putin a good headache. Still, it won't be long now. I'm no military strategist, but I'm sure the Ukraine cannot hold out forever with Russian troops all over.
I hope they resist long enough to make Putin have second thoughts but also that Ukraine loses some of its Nazis in the process. Win/Win.
-
This! 👇
[attachimg=1]
-
And this! 👇
[attachimg=1]
-
Not without significantly increasing costs for producers and consumers alike, or did you just ignore the reason why anyone in NA imports any Russian crude?
Production from where, exactly?
You first, Gulf War boy.
Yes, where could we get production from, hmmmm
Biden pauses new oil and gas leases amid legal battle over cost of climate change
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html
With decisions like these, Biden, and progressives in general show everybody that they’re completely unserious when it comes to the threat of Russia.
-
EU now united on booting Russia out of SWIFT.
-
EU now united on booting Russia out of SWIFT.
Excellent news. Some generals are already inferring that Putin has lost the war. That Russia might take the capital with sheer numbers, but Ukraine is going to be a disaster for them going forward.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/retired-general-makes-stunning-declaration-on-fox-news-putin-has-lost-this-war/
-
So the seditionist talking point is making this about a pipeline? Like the nukes sitting on the border has nothing to do with it?
-
So the seditionist talking point is making this about a pipeline? Like the nukes sitting on the border has nothing to do with it?
Wanting to decrease Putin’s wealth and power is now considered sedition? You’re a complete clown.
-
I hope they resist long enough to make Putin have second thoughts but also that Ukraine loses some of its Nazis in the process. Win/Win.
Fighting nazis is one of the ridiculous excuses that Putin’s using for his invasion. You’re literally carrying water for Putin. Guess what, there weren’t nazis in Ottawa protesting vaccine mandates and there aren’t nazis in Ukraine conducting a genocide against Russians. It’s an absurd declaration.
-
Reports coming out that Ukrainians are taking down street sign and/or switching them around to confuse Russian forces trying to enter the capitol. That’s a pretty good idea.
-
Reports coming out that Ukrainians are taking down street sign and/or switching them around to confuse Russian forces trying to enter the capitol. That’s a pretty good idea.
That's what the Brits did in 1940 when they were threatened with invasion.
-
Reports coming out that Ukrainians are taking down street sign and/or switching them around to confuse Russian forces trying to enter the capitol. That’s a pretty good idea.
Don't they have google maps?
-
. It’s an absurd declaration.
Starting to disagree with Trump that it was "very smart"? :D
-
Fighting nazis is one of the ridiculous excuses that Putin’s using for his invasion. You’re literally carrying water for Putin. Guess what, there weren’t nazis in Ottawa protesting vaccine mandates and there aren’t nazis in Ukraine conducting a genocide against Russians. It’s an absurd declaration.
Azov Special Operations Detachment, often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a right-wing extremist and neo-Nazi unit of the National Guard of Ukraine, based in Mariupol, in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014.[5] Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Odessa clashes. On 12 November 2014, Azov was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine, and since then all members are contract soldiers serving in the National Guard of Ukraine.
link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3e6mNVCcAAYBBB.jpg)
Canadian officials who met with Ukrainian unit linked to neo-Nazis feared exposure by news media: documents (https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-officials-who-met-with-ukrainian-unit-linked-to-neo-nazis-feared-exposure-by-news-media-documents)
Canadian officials who met with members of a Ukrainian battalion linked to neo-Nazis didn’t denounce the unit, but were instead concerned the media would expose details of the get-together, according to newly released documents.
The Canadians met with and were briefed by leaders from the Azov Battalion in June 2018. The officers and diplomats did not object to the meeting and instead allowed themselves to be photographed with battalion officials despite previous warnings that the unit saw itself as pro-Nazi.
-
Yes, where could we get production from, hmmmm
Biden pauses new oil and gas leases amid legal battle over cost of climate change
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html
With decisions like these, Biden, and progressives in general show everybody that they’re completely unserious when it comes to the threat of Russia.
You said Europe could increase production.
So where in Europe specifically?
This! 👇
(Attachment Link)
FFS, you and dumb Crenshaw again ignore the fact that the crude that KXL would carry is a completely different kind of oil than the stuff from Russia. You don't know f*ck all about the industry, you're just a parrot without an original thought in your skull.
-
This! 👇
(https://i.imgur.com/dMrMkcj.gif)
that your boy, Republican Congressman Crenshaw, represents Texas... that's gold, considering he quite obviously knows nothing about the Gulf refineries that the final stage of KXL targeted! Notwithstanding he clearly doesn't distinguish refined 'petroleum products' from crude oil (irregardless of its density). More pointedly, that KXL 830,000 barrels per day is forecasted capacity... capacity which presumes upon tarsands production ramping up over time to align with export contracts. Most pointedly, dilbit intended for that Gulf refinery processing was intended to align with export to 'Asian' markets... not for U.S. domestic use! Geezaz Shady, get in the game, hey!
-
Politico - Justin Ling: Behind the push to freeze Moscow’s foreign cash (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/27/canada-russia-cash-freeze-freeland-00012139)
(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/aca2ff9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1160x773+0+0/resize/1260x840!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F2a%2Fdd%2F69c8ef114e79bc197396fd6a953c%2F220227-chrystia-freeland-ap-773.jpg)
Chrystia Freeland, who also serves as the deputy prime minister, spent much of last week “pushing the idea of sanctioning the central bank,” said a senior Canadian official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The finance minister began floating the idea Tuesday, as speculation over whether President Vladimir Putin’s military build-up was a bluff. As his intention became clear, and the invasion began in earnest, Freeland began working on “building some momentum” behind targeting the central bank in Moscow and cutting off the Putin regime from billions in foreign currency reserves.
“The response by Canada and our allies will be swift and it will bite,” Freeland swore after Putin’s forces crossed the border. “This barbaric attack cannot and will not be allowed to succeed.” Freeland was born in Canada to Ukrainian parents — her mother helped draft Ukraine’s constitution.
-
that your boy, Republican Congressman Crenshaw, represents Texas... that's gold, considering he quite obviously knows nothing about the Gulf refineries that the final stage of KXL targeted! Notwithstanding he clearly doesn't distinguish refined 'petroleum products' from crude oil (irregardless of its density). More pointedly, that KXL 830,000 barrels per day is forecasted capacity... capacity which presumes upon tarsands production ramping up over time to align with export contracts. Most pointedly, dilbit intended for that Gulf refinery processing was intended to align with export to 'Asian' markets... not for U.S. domestic use! Geezaz Shady, get in the game, hey!
Geez waldo. That oil can just as easily be refined for domestic use instead of importing from Russia. It doesn't have to go to Asia.
-
Freeland was born in Canada to Ukrainian parents — her mother helped draft Ukraine’s constitution.
Hey what did her grandpa do? Anyone know?
-
Geez waldo. That oil can just as easily be refined for domestic use instead of importing from Russia. It doesn't have to go to Asia.
If it was easy and cheap to refine it they would be doing it already. Irving and Chevron don't want to spend the money to upgrade their refineries to handle heavy crude when they can just get the semi-refined stuff from Russia now. It's almost as if big companies DGAF about human rights or global politics when their bottom line is at stake.
-
If it was easy and cheap to refine it they would be doing it already. Irving and Chevron don't want to spend the money to upgrade their refineries to handle heavy crude when they can just get the semi-refined stuff from Russia now. It's almost as if big companies DGAF about human rights or global politics when their bottom line is at stake.
That and Quebec blocks pipelines to the Maritime provinces with federal acquiescence. Instead we import over a half billion dollars worth from Russia annually. Turn off the tap to Quebec and let them import from Russia.
-
Anyone who flies one of these (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMkBJjYWYAI5a66?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) red and black flags at a pro-Ukraine demonstration should be called out like someone waving a swastika or Confederate flag. Disgusting.
Ukrainian Insurgent Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army)
-
That and Quebec blocks pipelines to the Maritime provinces with federal acquiescence.
Again: even if the pipeline was there, the refinery capacity is not.
Instead we import over a half billion dollars worth from Russia annually. Turn off the tap to Quebec and let them import from Russia.
"Quebec" doesn't import any oil from Russia. Private companies do.
-
Yes, what can be done? Answer, a whole hell of a lot, like the current Putin enablers at Sussex and Pennsylvania Ave changing their idiotic policies.
Trudeau declares war on Alberta oil
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/opinion/jesse-kline-trudeau-declares-war-on-alberta-oil/wcm/0920b606-b4d8-44a8-87d9-d5bda89dd56d/amp/
Canada oil producers grapple with Trudeau's demand for faster emissions cuts
https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/canada-oil-producers-grapple-with-trudeaus-demand-faster-emissions-cuts-2021-10-22/
If you support these policies, you’re supporting pro-Putin policies. There’s no way to sugarcoat it anymore. These types of idiotic policies need to be defeated along with the politicians that support them.
-
Your claim that Putin was smart for invading didn't age well. :D
-
Again: even if the pipeline was there, the refinery capacity is not.
Why would there be a refinery if there is no pipe to get it there?
Quebec" doesn't import any oil from Russia. Private companies do.
Quebec blocked Energy East from being built to the Maritimes. The Maritime provinces wanted it.
-
Germany will increase defence spending to over 2% GDP plus make a one time 100 billion Euro boost in spending. Putin did in a 4 days what Trump couldn't do in four years.
-
Your claim that Putin was smart for invading didn't age well. :D
I never said he was smart for invading. But his incremental strategy of Georgia, Crimea and now Ukraine was definitely shrewd. Your anti oil and gas policies haven’t aged well at all. How do you feel as a supporter of policies that enriched Putin and helped fund his aggression?
-
Germany will increase defence spending to over 2% GDP plus make a one time 100 billion Euro boost in spending. Putin did in a 4 days what Trump couldn't do in four years.
Trump helped NATO countries start paying more of their fair share. Trump did more in 4 years than Obama, Bush and Clinton did in 24 years. Regardless, what Germany needs to do is start putting money in nuclear energy and oil and gas production.
-
Poor Putin-bots are desperately trying to pretend they were never Putin-bots. They see the writing on the wall.
-
Trump helped NATO countries start paying more of their fair share. Trump did more in 4 years than Obama, Bush and Clinton did in 24 years. Regardless, what Germany needs to do is start putting money in nuclear energy and oil and gas production.
Really, what are Germany's oil and gas reserves? We could be be supplying both if you could get a pipeline built in this stupid country.
-
EU sending fighter jets to Ukraine ?
https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409
-
Really, what are Germany's oil and gas reserves? We could be be supplying both if you could get a pipeline built in this stupid country.
Very true. I don’t think Germany has a lot of oil and gas to produce. But the biggest problem is that they’ve taken almost all of their nuclear power offline.
-
Why would there be a refinery if there is no pipe to get it there?
Quebec blocked Energy East from being built to the Maritimes. The Maritime provinces wanted it.
There are refineries in the east but AFAIK, Alberta heavy crude requires those refineries to upgrade to process it. It's cheaper and easier for them to simply source lighter, semi-processed crude from overseas.
-
Yes, what can be done? Answer, a whole hell of a lot, like the current Putin enablers at Sussex and Pennsylvania Ave changing their idiotic policies.
Trudeau declares war on Alberta oil
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/opinion/jesse-kline-trudeau-declares-war-on-alberta-oil/wcm/0920b606-b4d8-44a8-87d9-d5bda89dd56d/amp/
Canada oil producers grapple with Trudeau's demand for faster emissions cuts
https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/canada-oil-producers-grapple-with-trudeaus-demand-faster-emissions-cuts-2021-10-22/
If you support these policies, you’re supporting pro-Putin policies. There’s no way to sugarcoat it anymore. These types of idiotic policies need to be defeated along with the politicians that support them.
We've already established you know nothing of the industry of which you speak, so perhaps you should stay silent instead of squawking like a deranged cockatoo.
-
There are refineries in the east but AFAIK, Alberta heavy crude requires those refineries to upgrade to process it. It's cheaper and easier for them to simply source lighter, semi-processed crude from overseas.
The reason it's cheaper and easier to get from overseas is because we make it more expensive and more difficult to produce and refine in Canada. It's all part of the pro-Putin policies that enrich him and Russian, supported by the left in Canada and the United States.
-
Thought I would share this. Sweden had already instituted mandatory military service a few years back, and now Germany does this:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-hike-defense-spending-scholz-says-further-policy-shift-2022-02-27/
-
The reason it's cheaper and easier to get from overseas is because we make it more expensive and more difficult to produce and refine in Canada.
Distance from ports is part of the reason, but that would be the case even if we had pipelines to carry it. But the number one reason, one that you can't seem to get into your head, is that Canadian oil is a different type of oil with different uses than the stuff from Russia which, again, is a relative bit player in the North American oil and gas market.
It's all part of the pro-Putin policies that enrich him and Russian, supported by the left in Canada and the United States.
squawk squawk squawk
-
There are refineries in the east but AFAIK, Alberta heavy crude requires those refineries to upgrade to process it. It's cheaper and easier for them to simply source lighter, semi-processed crude from overseas.
I know there are refineries but there is no point in building or converting a refinery to process heavy oil if there is no way of getting the oil to the refinery.
-
EU sending fighter jets to Ukraine ?
https://www.barrons.com/news/eu-countries-to-send-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-borrell-01645994409
Ukraine doesn't operate Western fighter types, they would have to be Soviet types used by former East bloc countries.
-
Thought I would share this. Sweden had already instituted mandatory military service a few years back, and now Germany does this:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germany-hike-defense-spending-scholz-says-further-policy-shift-2022-02-27/
It took Putin four days to get Germany to do something Trump couldn't do i four years.
Sweden has also offered military assistance to Ukraine, the first time they have done that for another country since they did to Finland in 1939. Also against the Russians.
-
Ukraine doesn't operate Western fighter types, they would have to be Soviet types used by former East bloc countries.
I think I heard that they are using older models, but still having some success. Germany is sending a thousand anti-tank missiles as well as some stinger anti-aircraft missiles. I don't think Putin had anticipated this kind of assistance. The longer this goes, the more weapons and aid are going to flood into Ukraine.
-
So the pro-Putin people that remain are... Marjorie Taylor-Greene... and ?
Has Trump picked a side yet ?
-
So the pro-Putin people that remain are... Marjorie Taylor-Greene... and ?
Has Trump picked a side yet ?
Bernier is still openly pro-Russia.
-
Ukrainian navy confirms Snake Island soldiers alive, taken by Russia
(https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-698897)
Between the normal fog of war stuff and active disinformation campaigns on both sides, i think it's safe to say at this point one should believe absolutely nothing you read coming out of this war.
-
I know there are refineries but there is no point in building or converting a refinery to process heavy oil if there is no way of getting the oil to the refinery.
That may be, but the other wrinkle here is that the bulk of Canada's exports go to the U.S. so building pipelines isn't going to make a dent in Europe's dependency on Russian oil and gas, which is the whole premise of your argument.
-
That may be, but the other wrinkle here is that the bulk of Canada's exports go to the U.S. so building pipelines isn't going to make a dent in Europe's dependency on Russian oil and gas, which is the whole premise of your argument.
The reason it goes to the US is because all the pipelines go to the US. As long as that is, we are a captive supplier subject to the whims of the US. Canada has almost no ability to supply world markets on its own because we haven't built any pipelines to tidewater other than the 65 year old TransMountain and half its capacity goes to US refineries.
The whole premise of my argument is we have willingly excluded ourselves from world markets, the very markets that have made other oil producing countries incredibly wealthy.
-
The reason it goes to the US is because all the pipelines go to the US. As long as that is, we are a captive supplier subject to the whims of the US. Canada has almost no ability to supply world markets on its own because we haven't built any pipelines to tidewater other than the 65 year old TransMountain and half its capacity goes to US refineries.
The whole premise of my argument is we have willingly excluded ourselves from world markets, the very markets that have made other oil producing countries incredibly wealthy.
And that should give you a clue as to why we wouldn't be able to squeeze Russia out of the European market even if we did have pipelines galore. The geography doesn't make sense.
Anyway, it's probably a moot point because even if we decided today to build a whack of pipelines (social and environmental considerations be damned) we're at least a decade away from seeing the payoff.
Not to mention details like this:
A Russian steelmaking giant that employs over 1,000 people in Regina has seen its major shareholders named on the so-called “Putin list” — a who’s who of 114 Russian politicians and 96 oligarchs said to have directly benefitted from links to President Vladimir Putin.
...
Perhaps the most famous oligarch named is Roman Abramovich, a major shareholder in the London-listed Evraz PLC, which owns Evraz North America. Evraz employs 1,800 people in Canada, with sites in Regina as well as Calgary, Camrose and Red Deer in Alberta.
link (https://nationalpost.com/news/world/owners-of-western-canadas-biggest-steel-company-on-u-s-treasurys-new-putin-list)
Evraz Plc, Russia's No. 2 steelmaker, signed an agreement with Kinder Morgan Inc to supply about 250,000 metric t of pipe to the US pipeline company for the expansion of the Trans Mountain pipeline.
More than 75% of the pipe needed for the project will come from Evraz's Regina, Saskatchewan plant in Canada, the pipeline operator said.
link (https://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/news/2017/05/russias-evraz-to-supply-pipes-for-kinder-morgans-pipeline-expansion)
-
And that should give you a clue as to why we wouldn't be able to squeeze Russia out of the European market even if we did have pipelines galore. The geography doesn't make sense.
And yet we buy oil from Russia and oil coming from the Middle East has to travel just as far to Northern Europe as it would from Canada. In 2019 the US exported over 600,000 barrels a day of their oil to Europe while they buy ours cheap. It is also a lot farther to ship it from the US. Canadians are dumb.
-
And yet we buy oil from Russia and oil coming from the Middle East has to travel just as far to Northern Europe as it would from Canada. In 2019 the US exported over 600,000 barrels a day of their oil to Europe while they buy ours cheap. It is also a lot farther to ship it from the US. Canadians are dumb.
Canada has announced a stop to buying Russian oil.
-
Trudeau has announced a ban on importing Russian oil. Side note, Canada imports zero Russian oil. That’ll teach Putin! 😂
-
Trudeau has announced a ban on importing Russian oil. Side note, Canada imports zero Russian oil. That’ll teach Putin! 😂
LOL earlier in the thread you were complaining about Canada buying Russian oil even though you didn't know how much we actually import.
There's nothing you won't try to cram into your petty partisan box, is there?
-
LOL earlier in the thread you were complaining about Canada buying Russian oil even though you didn't know how much we actually import.
There's nothing you won't try to cram into your petty partisan box, is there?
Incorrect. I was complaining about the west.
-
Cancel culture seems to be working. Shell and BP are cancelling Russia.
-
Cancel culture seems to be working. Shell and BP are cancelling Russia.
And it isn't just a gesture, BP stands to lose billions by dumping its interest in Rosneft.
-
And yet we buy oil from Russia and oil coming from the Middle East has to travel just as far to Northern Europe as it would from Canada. In 2019 the US exported over 600,000 barrels a day of their oil to Europe while they buy ours cheap. It is also a lot farther to ship it from the US. Canadians are dumb.
The oil markets are... complex.
Not all oil is the same... some oil is higher in sulfur, others come from the tar sands. (Both require more processing than "Light sweet crude".) Then you also have issues such as economies of scale, transportation methods, etc.
Some things may look dumb on the face of it, but there may actually be rational reasons why certain countries import or export oil (even if it LOOKS illogical at first glance).
-
Not to change the subject, but what with the sanctions, as well as the invasion meeting stiffer resistance than the Russian Government thought it would, how long do you think Putin has? Six months? Six weeks? Six more days perhaps? According to BBC, there have been protests in 50 cities/towns across Russia, many have been arrested. It reminds me of what happened in 2011 in Egypt.
I bet you Putin's out before the end of this month, as far as I am concerned. He'll have "Resigned for health reasons" (just like Gorbachev) and been replaced by a combined civilian/military junta (also just like Gorbachev). He might "disappear" after that completely (unlike Gorbachev). I do not think he'll be as lucky as Mubarak (who died in comfortable exile).
-
I hope you are correct.
But we don't know objectively what the real situation is yet. Seems like things are going badly for Russia. But we get our information from our side.
-
I hope you are correct.
But we don't know objectively what the real situation is yet. Seems like things are going badly for Russia. But we get our information from our side.
Well, I don't want my information from ITAR-TASS (the state news agency). Even if it's a difference between bad and worse.
-
Good reading...
Five reasons Russia is struggling in Ukraine
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/03/five-reasons-why-russia-struggling-ukraine/362636/
-
If you're from the prairies, then either you're Ukrainian or your friend or neighbor or co-worker is. I read the other day that Canada has the world's 3rd largest population of Ukrainians, after Ukraine and Russia. Mom's side of the family were originally Ukrainian religious kooks who came to Canada in search of religious freedom. Even though I have no personal connection beyond ancestry, I can't help feeling emotionally invested in this in a way that I haven't felt invested in other conflicts in my lifetime.
The fierce resistance to the Russian assault has been inspiring, but I have growing anxiety about what happens next. Obviously Putin would lose face if this invasion fails, and looking weak and ineffective is something no "strong-man" will accept. So he will probably just increase the intensity of the assault until he gets his way. I don't know anything about military matters, but the viewpoint I keep seeing is that so far Putin has only used a fraction of the resources available to him, and as this debacle becomes more prolonged and more embarrassing for him, he will use more and more brutal tactics and Ukrainian civilians will probably die in large numbers.
I think that the Trudeau government has done very well. They have been among the leaders in imposing sanctions and sending aid. I think Freeland is very effective at interacting with other international leaders (as we saw during the NAFTA negotiations) and I would imagine that behind the scenes she has been very active in persuading other governments to join in.
I also think that the Biden administration is doing very well in rallying the western world to choke Russia's finances. Biden's predecessor would have provided a bunch of loud talk and zero action; the Biden administration has been using "soft power" to isolate Russia.
And I think that Volodomir Zelensky has been such a compelling figure in this crisis that it is making western countries and their governments want to help. The Russians will win the ground war sooner or later, but the media war has been decisively won by Zelensky. I gather this guy was basically a Ukrainian version of Jon Stewart before he got into politics. A funny guy on TV. He voiced Paddington the bear in the Ukrainian version of the movie. He played the President of Ukraine in a sit-com before actually being elected President. And now he's become this powerful symbol of courage and defiance. Even if he were actually doing this in front of a green screen in a TV studio in Hawaii (not that I'm suggesting he isn't really in Kiev) what he has done since the start of this invasion has been extraordinary. He's probably the key factor that has caused western leaders to rally together to impose such severe sanctions against Russia. I feel like whatever the eventual outcome of this invasion, we're seeing the beginning of the end of Russia's empire, and Zelensky has been the catalyst for it.
-k
-
If you're from the prairies, then either you're Ukrainian or your friend or neighbor or co-worker is. I read the other day that Canada has the world's 3rd largest population of Ukrainians, after Ukraine and Russia. Mom's side of the family were originally Ukrainian religious kooks who came to Canada in search of religious freedom. Even though I have no personal connection beyond ancestry, I can't help feeling emotionally invested in this in a way that I haven't felt invested in other conflicts in my lifetime.
The fierce resistance to the Russian assault has been inspiring, but I have growing anxiety about what happens next. Obviously Putin would lose face if this invasion fails, and looking weak and ineffective is something no "strong-man" will accept. So he will probably just increase the intensity of the assault until he gets his way. I don't know anything about military matters, but the viewpoint I keep seeing is that so far Putin has only used a fraction of the resources available to him, and as this debacle becomes more prolonged and more embarrassing for him, he will use more and more brutal tactics and Ukrainian civilians will probably die in large numbers.
I think that the Trudeau government has done very well. They have been among the leaders in imposing sanctions and sending aid. I think Freeland is very effective at interacting with other international leaders (as we saw during the NAFTA negotiations) and I would imagine that behind the scenes she has been very active in persuading other governments to join in.
I also think that the Biden administration is doing very well in rallying the western world to choke Russia's finances. Biden's predecessor would have provided a bunch of loud talk and zero action; the Biden administration has been using "soft power" to isolate Russia.
And I think that Volodomir Zelensky has been such a compelling figure in this crisis that it is making western countries and their governments want to help. The Russians will win the ground war sooner or later, but the media war has been decisively won by Zelensky. I gather this guy was basically a Ukrainian version of Jon Stewart before he got into politics. A funny guy on TV. He voiced Paddington the bear in the Ukrainian version of the movie. He played the President of Ukraine in a sit-com before actually being elected President. And now he's become this powerful symbol of courage and defiance. Even if he were actually doing this in front of a green screen in a TV studio in Hawaii (not that I'm suggesting he isn't really in Kiev) what he has done since the start of this invasion has been extraordinary. He's probably the key factor that has caused western leaders to rally together to impose such severe sanctions against Russia. I feel like whatever the eventual outcome of this invasion, we're seeing the beginning of the end of Russia's empire, and Zelensky has been the catalyst for it.
-k
Sorry kimmy but Biden has not been good. His energy policy has directly led to America importing more oil from Russia. Putin uses that money to help fund his military. The bombs landing on Ukrainians right now are literally funded from Joe Biden.
-
The oil markets are... complex.
Not all oil is the same... some oil is higher in sulfur, others come from the tar sands. (Both require more processing than "Light sweet crude".) Then you also have issues such as economies of scale, transportation methods, etc.
Some things may look dumb on the face of it, but there may actually be rational reasons why certain countries import or export oil (even if it LOOKS illogical at first glance).
Canadians are dumb, we never lose an opportunity to help others sell their oil.
-
His energy policy has directly led to America importing more oil from Russia.
This is 2nd guessing.
-
This is 2nd guessing.
It's also factually incorrect. U.S. imports from Russia began to increase in 2019 under the previous administration after it placed sanctions on Venezuela. If Biden has made an error it is in continuing the Trump administrations harmful and destructive sanctions regime.
-
This is 2nd guessing.
It’s not second guessing at all. When you implement policies that decrease production, etc. You need to make up the shortfall somewhere. Biden gets it from Russia and Saudi Arabia. He’s been begging opec to increase production. Apparently it’s ok for other countries to produce oil, just not the United States.
-
It's also factually incorrect. U.S. imports from Russia began to increase in 2019 under the previous administration after it placed sanctions on Venezuela. If Biden has made an error it is in continuing the Trump administrations harmful and destructive sanctions regime.
Complete nonsense. Regardless, keystone was set to supply twice what they import from Russia. But Biden killed it. Apparently it’s better to buy oil from Putin than from Canada. It’s this logic that led to the term libtard. Keep defending it though, it’s entertaining.
-
Canadians are dumb, we never lose an opportunity to help others sell their oil.
You make it sound like it was all contrived. Ultimately it's Alberta's fault for not figuring out how to make lemonade from the lemon it's sitting on. They should have built a refinery in the middle of the Tar Sands and sold finished products.
-
You make it sound like it was all contrived. Ultimately it's Alberta's fault for not figuring out how to make lemonade from the lemon it's sitting on. They should have built a refinery in the middle of the Tar Sands and sold finished products.
Yes it’s Alberta’s fault for the federal regulations around production, transportation and refining! 😂
-
Complete nonsense.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
(https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/oil-and-petroleum-imports-russia-explained)
And, since 2019, U.S. refineries have increased imports of unfinished heavy oils from Russia to help replace heavy sour crude from Venezuela that U.S. refineries can no longer import.
But what would the (checks notes) American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers know about it.
Regardless, keystone was set to supply twice what they import from Russia. But Biden killed it.
Keystone XL Phase 4 wasn't set to enter service till 2023; please explain how that would help with the current situation.
Apparently it’s better to buy oil from Putin than from Canada. It’s this logic that led to the term libtard. Keep defending it though, it’s entertaining.
Yeah that's why the U.S. imports literally 10 times as much oil from Canada as Russia. Moron.
Even without Keystone XL, U.S. set for record Canadian oil imports
(https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-without-keystone-xl-us-set-record-canadian-oil-imports-2021-01-22/)
-
It’s not second guessing at all. When you implement policies that decrease production, etc. You need to make up the shortfall somewhere. Biden gets it from Russia and Saudi Arabia. He’s been begging opec to increase production. Apparently it’s ok for other countries to produce oil, just not the United States.
You just can't stop being wrong, can you?
Oil production to keep surging under Biden (https://www.axios.com/oil-production-surge-biden-gas-d9667728-b796-41d1-bf33-4e651b5ebf9b.html)
-
Yes it’s Alberta’s fault for the federal regulations around production, transportation and refining! 😂
No, it Alberta's fault for not figuring out how to operate within the regulations.
-
Facts don't care about your feelings.
(https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/oil-and-petroleum-imports-russia-explained)
But what would the (checks notes) American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers know about it.
Keystone XL Phase 4 wasn't set to enter service till 2023; please explain how that would help with the current situation.
Yeah that's why the U.S. imports literally 10 times as much oil from Canada as Russia. Moron.
Even without Keystone XL, U.S. set for record Canadian oil imports
(https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-without-keystone-xl-us-set-record-canadian-oil-imports-2021-01-22/)
There shouldn't be an "even without XL" situation. Biden should have never cancelled it. In fact, he should have expedited it. How great would that be, even if Phase 4 was a year away. It would be huge leverage over Putin and Russia. I don't understand why you're arguing against increase domestic oil, and lowering imports of Russian oil. it makes no sense. Biden also signed executive orders limiting oil development on federal land. This is a fact, that also leads to less production. You cite projections of increased production, but the issue is that it could be even higher, which would lead to lower costs and the elimination of Russian exports entirely. I think you should finally go on the record and state unequivocally, that you support increasing domestic production of oil. Is that a yes or no?
-
You just can't stop being wrong, can you?
Oil production to keep surging under Biden (https://www.axios.com/oil-production-surge-biden-gas-d9667728-b796-41d1-bf33-4e651b5ebf9b.html)
The issue is that it could be much higher. How do you not understand such a simple concept?
-
No, it Alberta's fault for not figuring out how to operate within the regulations.
Yes it's Alberta's fault for the federal government making it more difficult to produce and refine oil? How about putting some blame on, um, maybe the federal government?
-
There shouldn't be an "even without XL" situation. Biden should have never cancelled it. In fact, he should have expedited it. How great would that be, even if Phase 4 was a year away. It would be huge leverage over Putin and Russia.
Sure just wave a magic wand and make it appear lol. Never mind all the supply chain issues, increased costs for stuff like steel, and the whole pandemic thing.
I don't understand why you're arguing against increase domestic oil, and lowering imports of Russian oil. it makes no sense.
I'm just pointing out where you're wrong.
Biden also signed executive orders limiting oil development on federal land.
And yet: Biden outpaces Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands
(https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fclimate-environment%2F2022%2F01%2F27%2Foil-gas-leasing-biden-climate%2F)
But one year after announcing a halt to any new federal oil and gas leasing, Biden has outpaced Donald Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands. After setting a record for the largest offshore lease sale last year in the Gulf of Mexico, the Interior Department plans to auction off oil and gas drilling rights on more than 200,000 acres across Western states by the end of March, followed by 1 million acres in the Cook Inlet, off the coast of Alaska.
The administration’s actions reveal an uncomfortable truth: Although Biden supports a shift to cleaner sources of energy, he has failed to curb fossil fuel development in the United States.
You cite projections of increased production, but the issue is that it could be even higher, which would lead to lower costs and the elimination of Russian exports entirely.
Again, there are a great many factors that dictate production levels, such as production costs and shipping capacity, and those decisions are ultimately made by producers. It's not as simple as flipping a big switch in the Oval Office to make the oil go like you seem to think.
I think you should finally go on the record and state unequivocally, that you support increasing domestic production of oil. Is that a yes or no?
Domestic oil production is already increasing, so I really have no idea why you're complaining beyond some vague idea that it could be higher.
My personal belief is we need to continue to decrease our consumption of fossil fuels.
-
Sure just wave a magic wand and make it appear lol. Never mind all the supply chain issues, increased costs for stuff like steel, and the whole pandemic thing.
I'm just pointing out where you're wrong.
And yet: Biden outpaces Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands
(https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fclimate-environment%2F2022%2F01%2F27%2Foil-gas-leasing-biden-climate%2F)
Again, there are a great many factors that dictate production levels, such as production costs and shipping capacity, and those decisions are ultimately made by producers. It's not as simple as flipping a big switch in the Oval Office to make the oil go like you seem to think.
Domestic oil production is already increasing, so I really have no idea why you're complaining beyond some vague idea that it could be higher.
My personal belief is we need to continue to decrease our consumption of fossil fuels.
Do you support the Keystone pipeline or not? Yes, now the Biden administration plans on auctioning off more drilling rights. After a year of pausing. It should never have been paused in the first place. That's the whole point. Just like Biden should never have cancelled the Keystone pipeline. It's almost as if Vladimir Putin was making American energy policy.
-
Do you support the Keystone pipeline or not?
member Shady, again, in an earlier post you didn't... couldn't... distinguish between unrefined crude and refined petroleum products. And you presumed to suggest that a completed KXL would make 830,000 bbl/day available to the United States domestic market. Now, again: that KXL 830,000 bbl/day is forecasted capacity... capacity which presumes upon Alberta tarsands production ramping up over time to align with export contracts. Most pointedly, dilbit intended for U.S. Gulf refinery processing was intended to align with export to 'Asian' markets... not for U.S. domestic use!
-
member Shady, again, in an earlier post you didn't... couldn't... distinguish between unrefined crude and refined petroleum products. And you presumed to suggest that a completed KXL would make 830,000 bbl/day available to the United States domestic market. Now, again: that KXL 830,000 bbl/day is forecasted capacity... capacity which presumes upon Alberta tarsands production ramping up over time to align with export contracts. Most pointedly, dilbit intended for U.S. Gulf refinery processing was intended to align with export to 'Asian' markets... not for U.S. domestic use!
But priorities can change. And said oil could be used for domestic consumption instead of being shipped to Asia. Do you support the keystone pipeline? Yes or no?
-
But priorities can change. And said oil could be used for domestic consumption instead of being shipped to Asia.
so... you're saying the United States would nationalize TC Energy (and the related investment of some 500 or so 'institutional investors')? Really?
-
member Shady, again, in an earlier post you didn't... couldn't... distinguish between unrefined crude and refined petroleum products. And you presumed to suggest that a completed KXL would make 830,000 bbl/day available to the United States domestic market. Now, again: that KXL 830,000 bbl/day is forecasted capacity... capacity which presumes upon Alberta tarsands production ramping up over time to align with export contracts. Most pointedly, dilbit intended for U.S. Gulf refinery processing was intended to align with export to 'Asian' markets... not for U.S. domestic use!
It's also not necessarily an additional 830,000 bbl/day because some or most of the product that would travel through KXL is currently being produced and shipped through other means.
-
so... you're saying the United States would nationalize TC Energy (and the related investment of some 500 or so 'institutional investors')? Really?
Do you support keystone or do you side with Putin?
-
It's also not necessarily an additional 830,000 bbl/day because some or most of the product that would travel through KXL is currently being produced and shipped through other means.
Do you support keystone or do you also side with Putin?
-
You make it sound like it was all contrived. Ultimately it's Alberta's fault for not figuring out how to make lemonade from the lemon it's sitting on. They should have built a refinery in the middle of the Tar Sands and sold finished products.
So how does a landlocked province get its products to world markets when it is surrounded by dumb Canadians intent on stopping it? Alberta has refineries , without them British Columbians would be freezing in the dark because they refine less than 50% of what they use.
-
What a treat it would be to put a bullet between Putin's eyes
-
What a treat it would be to put a bullet between Putin's eyes
I have faith that someone certainly will. For the Russians it's Afghanistan 2.0. It might take a little time but I also have faith that there will be another coup in Moscow sometime soon. Hopefully the new government will govern Russia better, but I won't hold my breath. At least they may get the Russkies out of Ukraine.
-
"Goebbels style Western propaganda" - indeed!
(https://i.imgur.com/QFNk99b.jpg)
-
Detailed 25- part tweet explains the challenge and the horror of the coming urban warfare.
While it makes me believe even more that Russia is unlikely to succeed, it chills my blood also in imaging what is ahead.
It may in fact force the west to intervene as with Yugoslavia.
https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1499178609591812096?t=vT05HlIHCm6kyBs3G19Pbg&s=19
-
Also to point out that Americans are 70% against Russia according to the Five Thirty Eight podcast, and it's not that different along party lines.
-
What would stop NATO from announcing a convoy to Kyiv to deliver supplies?
-
What would stop NATO from announcing a convoy to Kyiv to deliver supplies?
Berlin getting nuked.
-
Berlin getting nuked.
Why? So Russia can attack Ukraine but other countries can’t support them? If NATO doesn’t get involved in actual combat with Russian troops I don’t get why they can’t do that?
-
Why? So Russia can attack Ukraine but other countries can’t support them? If NATO doesn’t get involved in actual combat with Russian troops I don’t get why they can’t do that?
You're expecting consistent behaviour from Putin?
What if we got a 21st century version of the Berlin Airlift if Kiev is successful cut off.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/berlin-airlift
-
You're expecting consistent behaviour from Putin?
What if we got a 21st century version of the Berlin Airlift if Kiev is successful cut off.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/berlin-airlift
But NATO countries are already openly supplying Ukraine with weapons. They make public announcements every day about how many stinger missiles etc are being sent.
-
Do you support keystone or do you also side with Putin?
lol this isn't a bad faith false choice at all.
I support reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, regardless of their source.
-
What would stop NATO from announcing a convoy to Kyiv to deliver supplies?
How would you protect the convoy other than putting NATO forces in direct conflict with Russian forces?
-
lol this isn't a bad faith false choice at all.
I support reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, regardless of their source.
Germany tried that. It didn’t work. That’s one of the reasons we’re in this mess, because of people like you, and failed unproductive policies. It’s Groundhog Day with you people.
-
How would you protect the convoy other than putting NATO forces in direct conflict with Russian forces?
Why would they need to be protected? It’s humanitarian aid. NATO forces have just as much right to be there as Russian forces do. You could announce your intentions and presence beforehand, so that there’s no misinterpretation or miscommunication.
-
Why would they need to be protected? It’s humanitarian aid. NATO forces have just as much right to be there as Russian forces do. You could announce your intentions and presence beforehand, so that there’s no misinterpretation or miscommunication.
There is no way the Russians would let it get there unless force was used.
-
Germany tried that. It didn’t work.
Because they did it wrong.
That’s one of the reasons we’re in this mess, because of people like you, and failed unproductive policies. It’s Groundhog Day with you people.
Whereas continuing to rely on fossil fuels and continuing to enrich dictatorships like Russia, the Saudis and the UAE is a great plan going forward.
-
Because they did it wrong.
Yes, much like communism, it's never been really implemented correctly right? Can you cite a country with a significant economy that has done it correctly?
Whereas continuing to rely on fossil fuels and continuing to enrich dictatorships like Russia, the Saudis and the UAE is a great plan going forward.
If we want to maintain our standard of living, fossil fuels are a necessity. However, the west has more than enough to do without Russia's if you just have the political will.
-
Yes, much like communism, it's never been really implemented correctly right? Can you cite a country with a significant economy that has done it correctly?
Canada.
If we want to maintain our standard of living, fossil fuels are a necessity.
A standard of living based on excessive consumption that will trash the planet isn't worth maintaining.
However, the west has more than enough to do without Russia's if you just have the political will.
And you've offered not a single piece of evidence to support this claim.
-
Canada.
LOL!
A standard of living based on excessive consumption that will trash the planet isn't worth maintaining.
Excessive is very subjective. That's your opinion. But until you develop an viable alternative, nobody is going to agree with you. Especially when your way funds the world's worst actors.
And you've offered not a single piece of evidence to support this claim.
Why do you care if you're not willing to use it?
OSLO, NORWAY–The United States now holds the world’s largest recoverable oil reserve base–more than Saudi Arabia or Russia–thanks to the development of unconventional resource plays.
https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/exclusive-story/u.s.-holds-most-recoverable-oil-reserves
-
LOL!
Excessive is very subjective. That's your opinion. But until you develop an viable alternative, nobody is going to agree with you. Especially when your way funds the world's worst actors.
Why do you care if you're not willing to use it?
OSLO, NORWAY–The United States now holds the world’s largest recoverable oil reserve base–more than Saudi Arabia or Russia–thanks to the development of unconventional resource plays.
https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/exclusive-story/u.s.-holds-most-recoverable-oil-reserves
It's funny that right-wing nuts like you always deride the left for virtue signalling and not having practical solutions to complex problems and you're out here pretending that ending dependence on blood oil is as easy as just drilling more, not to mention that this would require massive state intervention into the private sector.
-
Wouldn't the UN just deliver humanitarian aid ?
-
Wouldn't the UN just deliver humanitarian aid ?
I don’t think they want to get bombed or shot by Russians either.
-
A top Russian general was killed today!
-
Hopefully someone will bump off their commander in chief soon.
-
Ukrainian nuclear plant, Europe's largest, ablaze after Russian attack (https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/)
BORODYANKA/LVIV, Ukraine, March 4 (Reuters) - The largest nuclear power plant in Europe is on fire following a Russian attack, Ukraine's foreign minister said on Friday, as he called for a security zone and firefighters to be allowed to tackle the incident.
A generating unit at the plant has been hit during an attack by Russian troops and part of the station is on fire, RIA news agency cited the Ukrainian atomic energy ministry as saying on Friday.
-
Ukrainian nuclear plant, Europe's largest, ablaze after Russian attack (https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/)
That’s pretty scary. How insane do they have to be to shell a nuclear power plant.
-
Do you support keystone or do you also side with Putin?
OSLO, NORWAY–The United States now holds the world’s largest recoverable oil reserve base–more than Saudi Arabia or Russia–thanks to the development of unconventional resource plays.
https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/exclusive-story/u.s.-holds-most-recoverable-oil-reserves
sooooo, do you maintain highlighting {presumed} U.S. reserves... as claimed "world's largest", helps the position/case that the U.S. needs KXL? Notwithstanding, of course, as highlighted several times now, the final phase of KXL was not intended for U.S. domestic use; again, it was intended for export markets; intended to ship tarsands dilbit to Gulf refineries for processing and shipment to 'Asian markets'!
but hey now, if you presume to hype supposed U.S. reserves, the waldo suggests you try a few googlies on, say... 'shale bubble'... 'shale oil & gas reality'. Just sayin, hey!
-
A top Russian general was killed today!
I know I shouldn't be cheering on death and destruction, but I find myself feeling a lot of schadenfreude at all the misfortune the Russians are experiencing in this travesty.
Still, it sounds as though the Russians are actually achieving some amount of success in the south in the regions around the Black Sea. It seems inevitable that despite the setbacks they have experienced so far, the Russians will sooner or later take Ukraine by force.
But this has been a debacle for them. They have underperformed, to put it kindly. Their equipment has failed. Their logistics have been laughable. Their 40 km armored column has turned into a 40 km armored traffic jam, full of breakdowns, and short of food and fuel. Before this invasion, people thought the Russian military was Darth Vader, and now people think the Russian military is Dark Helmet. One has to think that if Russia were up against NATO instead of Ukraine, this would have been a massacre. Their massive stalled armored column could be completely annihilated within minutes by NATO air power. A few A-10s could turn it into a 40 km long mass grave in about 15 minutes. Their aura of intimidation has suffered an irreparable blow.
It seems to me that even if Russia "wins", they've lost. The economic damage this misadventure has caused them will greatly outweigh whatever gains they think they will achieve by installing a puppet government in Kiev.
A Canadian writer I like, Jen Gerson, on why winning the propaganda war matters:
https://theline.substack.com/p/jen-gerson-ukraine-is-winning-the?s=r
-k
-
a 'lighter moment' (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1499301734606376960/pu/vid/720x1280/whHnpWFKyg9FMHDg.mp4?tag=12) - fwiw
-
NATO forces have just as much right to be there as Russian forces do.
This is true. Neither of them have any right to be in there. Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
-
A Canadian writer I like, Jen Gerson, on why winning the propaganda war matters:
https://theline.substack.com/p/jen-gerson-ukraine-is-winning-the?s=r
-k
Double ! Didn't I post Jen Gerson on here before ? I swear I introduced her here.
The centrist Canadian political podcast universe is the best news rn.
-
I know I shouldn't be cheering on death and destruction, but I find myself feeling a lot of schadenfreude at all the misfortune the Russians are experiencing in this travesty.
Still, it sounds as though the Russians are actually achieving some amount of success in the south in the regions around the Black Sea. It seems inevitable that despite the setbacks they have experienced so far, the Russians will sooner or later take Ukraine by force.
But this has been a debacle for them. They have underperformed, to put it kindly. Their equipment has failed. Their logistics have been laughable. Their 40 km armored column has turned into a 40 km armored traffic jam, full of breakdowns, and short of food and fuel. Before this invasion, people thought the Russian military was Darth Vader, and now people think the Russian military is Dark Helmet. One has to think that if Russia were up against NATO instead of Ukraine, this would have been a massacre. Their massive stalled armored column could be completely annihilated within minutes by NATO air power. A few A-10s could turn it into a 40 km long mass grave in about 15 minutes. Their aura of intimidation has suffered an irreparable blow.
It seems to me that even if Russia "wins", they've lost. The economic damage this misadventure has caused them will greatly outweigh whatever gains they think they will achieve by installing a puppet government in Kiev.
A Canadian writer I like, Jen Gerson, on why winning the propaganda war matters:
https://theline.substack.com/p/jen-gerson-ukraine-is-winning-the?s=r
-k
If this becomes a war of attrition the Russians will not be able to take Ukraine. They haven't even touched Western Ukraine, one would hope NATO supplies are being staged there for a counter attack.
-
This is true. Neither of them have any right to be in there. Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
I imagine NATO would be an invited guest though.
-
I imagine NATO would be an invited guest though.
You say that now but have you seen the US try to liberate people?
-
I imagine NATO would be an invited guest though.
Other than providing weapons to Ukraine, NATO has made it crystal clear it will not be involved, on the ground or in the air. Keeping the pressure on Russia and forcing change from within is the right thing to do. Putin seems to have become quite unstable and it would be better to let Russians deal with him.
-
Other than providing weapons to Ukraine, NATO has made it crystal clear it will not be involved, on the ground or in the air. Keeping the pressure on Russia and forcing change from within is the right thing to do. Putin seems to have become quite unstable and it would be better to let Russians deal with him.
I have a friend who keeps insisting that the US needs to get involved. I just shake my head. The US isn't putting boots on the ground unless they attack a NATO state. Hell, Putin could roll through every single European state that is not in NATO and the US still won't get involved. They're not going to war directly with Russia over Ukraine.
-
I have a friend who keeps insisting that the US needs to get involved. I just shake my head. The US isn't putting boots on the ground unless they attack a NATO state. Hell, Putin could roll through every single European state that is not in NATO and the US still won't get involved. They're not going to war directly with Russia over Ukraine.
I dunno. There is a lot of anti-Russia sentiment right now and political unity is hard to come by... but here we are.
Humanitarian abuses got the UN and those ground boots marching as recently as the mid 1990s.
Please remember: THESE ARE WHITE PEOPLE.
And, not being so cheeky and cynical, we actually work with these people in the west quite a lot. Would air cover from NATO be out of the question ??
-
I dunno. There is a lot of anti-Russia sentiment right now and political unity is hard to come by... but here we are.
Humanitarian abuses got the UN and those ground boots marching as recently as the mid 1990s.
Please remember: THESE ARE WHITE PEOPLE.
And, not being so cheeky and cynical, we actually work with these people in the west quite a lot. Would air cover from NATO be out of the question ??
Air cover involves attacking Russian radar that overlaps with that air space amongst other things. You have to enforce the no-fly zone, which means attacking Russia directly. There's an argument to be made for it, but I'm old enough (and you are too) to really hate the idea of two nuclear superpowers getting into a direct conflict with each other.
To be clear, it may happen but I think it's a bit premature for this to be the catalyst for something that huge.
-
Would air cover from NATO be out of the question ??
Yes. How is blowing up Russian aircraft different than blowing up their ground troops? It would be WW #3.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaMVIYqxEf4
(https://i.imgur.com/EL4jSHX.jpg)
-
Ukraine is not strategically valuable enough for NATO to get involved in a direct fight with Russia. Which is crazy because they were willing to back Putin in a corner for a country they don't care that much about. Putin would rather see Ukraine crumble than join NATO. I assume this invasion is for regime change and support pro-russian areas.
-
I am not a murderertin **** head would not make me one. So, anybody got a strong hand I can borrow?
-
Ukraine is not strategically valuable enough for NATO to get involved in a direct fight with Russia. Which is crazy because they were willing to back Putin in a corner for a country they don't care that much about. Putin would rather see Ukraine crumble than join NATO. I assume this invasion is for regime change and support pro-russian areas.
That’s one of the problems. Ukraine is much more important to Putin than it is for NATO. He’s willing to go as far as needed, where as we are not.
-
That’s one of the problems. Ukraine is much more important to Putin than it is for NATO. He’s willing to go as far as needed, where as we are not.
We? :)
-
The war in Ukraine was predicted years ago if NATO continued its push up to the borders of Russia. This video entitled crisis in Ukraine is from 2014.
https://youtu.be/uE9jULgC42o
-
Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't about to be. But why are you acting like Putin's defence attorney?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-expansion-putin-war-russia-ukraine-11646351768
-
Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't about to be. But why are you acting like Putin's defence attorney?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-expansion-putin-war-russia-ukraine-11646351768
Why do you still deny the fact that there was a push for years to make Ukraine part of NATO? Why do you deny the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and to the border of Russia? These are all facts.
-
Why do you still deny the fact that there was a push for years to make Ukraine part of NATO? Why do you deny the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and to the border of Russia? These are all facts.
Why do you fight against democracy every step of the way?
-
Why do you still deny the fact that there was a push for years to make Ukraine part of NATO? Why do you deny the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and to the border of Russia? These are all facts.
What of it? What are you saying, that NATO was wrong to take on new members in the former Eastern Bloc?
Russia (and most NATO member states) predate the Cold War by many decades, in some cases centuries. The Japanese and the Russians don't like each other, and that is directly related to the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, wherein Japan totally destroyed the Russian fleet. That was under a completely different government, but things like that don't just "go away" because a lot of time has passed or the governments---or even forms of government---have changed. Historical precedents are like wounds that heal somewhat, but not entirely. They leave scars on the historical record.
It's the mentality of newer nations, like the US, to inadvertently ignore these historically-driven forces. To understand what's going on we have to go back pretty far. The seizure of the Crimea is a continuation of Russia's/the USSR's pursuit of a "warm water port". Like Sevastopol and nearby naval bases. And that strategy predates the Cold War quite a bit.
Another historical rivalry that predates the Cold War: Sweden instituting a draft for its protection. Why? Not because of World War II but because in the 1700s Peter the Great seized St Pete's---from the Swedes.
We need to stop thinking of modern history as having begun in 1945.
-
The war in Ukraine was predicted years ago if NATO continued its push up to the borders of Russia. This video entitled crisis in Ukraine is from 2014.
You love abusers logic. "I wouldn't hit you f you didn't make me mad."
-
You love abusers logic. "I wouldn't hit you f you didn't make me mad."
No. This maybe a bit more complicated of a concept than you can grasp. But one can be against the war, hope that Russia comes out on the losing end, but acknowledge the reason this conflict took place in the first place.
-
No. This maybe a bit more complicated of a concept than you can grasp. But one can be against the war, hope that Russia comes out on the losing end, but acknowledge the reason this conflict took place in the first place.
Russia has had an expansive foreign policy since the days of Peter the Great. Again, you're looking through the prism of the Cold War, with a cold war-mentality.
-
What of it? What are you saying, that NATO was wrong to take on new members in the former Eastern Bloc?
Russia (and most NATO member states) predate the Cold War by many decades, in some cases centuries. The Japanese and the Russians don't like each other, and that is directly related to the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, wherein Japan totally destroyed the Russian fleet. That was under a completely different government, but things like that don't just "go away" because a lot of time has passed or the governments---or even forms of government---have changed. Historical precedents are like wounds that heal somewhat, but not entirely. They leave scars on the historical record.
It's the mentality of newer nations, like the US, to inadvertently ignore these historically-driven forces. To understand what's going on we have to go back pretty far. The seizure of the Crimea is a continuation of Russia's/the USSR's pursuit of a "warm water port". Like Sevastopol and nearby naval bases. And that strategy predates the Cold War quite a bit.
Another historical rivalry that predates the Cold War: Sweden instituting a draft for its protection. Why? Not because of World War II but because in the 1700s Peter the Great seized St Pete's---from the Swedes.
We need to stop thinking of modern history as having begun in 1945.
Ukraine is in a tug of war between the West/NATO and Russia caught in the middle. Obviously Putin would love to annex all former-Soviet areas that are ethnically Russian. Virtually everybody living in Crimea are ethnically Russian, it's literally 90%+ Russian speakers there.
But it's also a fact that NATO and EU have very clearly sought to expand into Ukraine and Russia sees this as an existential security threat. NATO added Poland as a member and stationed anti-ballistic missiles in the country.
Putin is a d-bag, Putin would like to expand Russian territory if he can get away with it, and Putin is also threatened greatly by NATO/EU expansion on Russia's borders and clearly won't allow it to happen.
Putin would rather destroy Ukraine than have it go to NATO/EU. The US would rather try to expand NATO/EU and have Russia destroy Ukraine and get bogged down in an insurgency war than let Ukraine simply buddy up with Russia.
-
No. This maybe a bit more complicated of a concept than you can grasp. But one can be against the war, hope that Russia comes out on the losing end, but acknowledge the reason this conflict took place in the first place.
Vladimir Putin and his fantasies of restoring Imperial Russia is the reason this conflict took place, the rest is apologia for a dictator.
-
No. This maybe a bit more complicated of a concept than you can grasp. But one can be against the war, hope that Russia comes out on the losing end, but acknowledge the reason this conflict took place in the first place.
Russia’s attack on Ukraine just validated Ukraine’s need for allies. Why have none of the former Soviet satellites asked Russia for protection from NATO or the West? They know where the real threat lies. They asked to be in NATO, they weren’t courted.
-
Ukrainian army captures abandoned vehicles of the Russian convoy.
https://twitter.com/jimmysecuk/status/1500149980576862210?s=21
-
Why do you still deny the fact that there was a push for years to make Ukraine part of NATO? Why do you deny the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and to the border of Russia? These are all facts.
3 pages ago, you had no clue who was even in NATO.
Now, you’re an expert on international relations??
LOL
-
I hate to get us off topic, but do you all think that sanctions are adequate to force Russia to reconsider her situation? (Or even force the oligarchs and top generals to remove Putin from power by force?) Or will Putin survive this and destroy the Ukraine in his quest for power? Are sanctions a paper tiger? or are they going to help?
In a book on political survival I read ("The Dictator's Handbook: How Bad Behavior is Almost Always Good Politics") the authors postulate that the idea of "monolithic" leadership is false: that every leader has an inner circle, the bare minimum of supporters of different kinds who are capable of actually removing a ruler from power if he fails to reward them with power, privileges and sometimes money. If the sanctions work, and Putin can no longer pour kibble into their bowls due to lack of money, they will (by the authors' theory) overthrow Putin; maybe even place him under arrest, arrange hastily a private military tribunal (a drumhead trial whose verdict is a foregone conclusion) then drag him down into the basement of the Lubyanka where they put a bullet in his head.
One can always hope. It is no coincidence that Egyptian Pres. Hosni Mubarak was overthrown a year after the United States made deep cuts in foreign aid. So it's plausible. Pull the financial rug out from under a leader and it's only a matter of time. We can hope that, if he's removed, the junta will withdraw troops from Ukraine and negotiate with NATO and the Ukrainian Government (or however much of said government is left alive).
Russia’s attack on Ukraine just validated Ukraine’s need for allies. Why have none of the former Soviet satellites asked Russia for protection from NATO or the West? They know where the real threat lies. They asked to be in NATO, they weren’t courted.
True. NATO didn't have a conscious strategy to isolate the Russians again. The Baltic states were afraid of Russia taking them back. They would not have applied for NATO membership if they did not think they needed protection from something or someone (Russia/Putin).
-
I hate to get us off topic, but do you all think that sanctions are adequate to force Russia to reconsider her situation? (Or even force the oligarchs and top generals to remove Putin from power by force?) Or will Putin survive this and destroy the Ukraine in his quest for power? Are sanctions a paper tiger? or are they going to help?
In a book on political survival I read ("The Dictator's Handbook: How Bad Behavior is Almost Always Good Politics") the authors postulate that the idea of "monolithic" leadership is false: that every leader has an inner circle, the bare minimum of supporters of different kinds who are capable of actually removing a ruler from power if he fails to reward them with power, privileges and sometimes money. If the sanctions work, and Putin can no longer pour kibble into their bowls due to lack of money, they will (by the authors' theory) overthrow Putin; maybe even place him under arrest, arrange hastily a private military tribunal (a drumhead trial whose verdict is a foregone conclusion) then drag him down into the basement of the Lubyanka where they put a bullet in his head.
One can always hope. It is no coincidence that Egyptian Pres. Hosni Mubarak was overthrown a year after the United States made deep cuts in foreign aid. So it's plausible. Pull the financial rug out from under a leader and it's only a matter of time. We can hope that, if he's removed, the junta will withdraw troops from Ukraine and negotiate with NATO and the Ukrainian Government (or however much of said government is left alive).
True. NATO didn't have a conscious strategy to isolate the Russians again. The Baltic states were afraid of Russia taking them back. They would not have applied for NATO membership if they did not think they needed protection from something or someone (Russia/Putin).
The goal of the sanctions are to bleed Russia dry of their ability to wage war.
It's clear infantry can't take any of the major cities. They're now relying on artillery bombardments and airstrike, all very expensive.
Can the average Russian realize that their imposed poverty is because of Putin, and not because of the West. The well of willing new bodies to get thrown into the campaign will dry up.
-
... the Ukraine...
pickinNitswaldo: it's Ukraine; not 'the' Ukraine
-
If nothing else, Ukraine has exposed the Russian military as highly overrated. I expect the Russians would fight much harder in defence of their own country but they really aren't much of a threat to a galvanized NATO.
-
If nothing else, Ukraine has exposed the Russian military as highly overrated. I expect the Russians would fight much harder in defence of their own country but they really aren't much of a threat to a galvanized NATO.
Yeah sure…. but then they bust out the nukes and suddenly it doesn’t matter if their tanks have fuel, or not.
-
"China was, in fact, played..." by Russia
https://www.stimson.org/2022/ukraine-did-china-have-a-clue/
-
Yeah sure…. but then they bust out the nukes and suddenly it doesn’t matter if their tanks have fuel, or not.
NATO is a defensive alliance, getting all the members to agree on starting a war would be impossible. That's why there is an Article 5.
So then they occupy a nuclear wasteland and maybe start WW3
-
So then they occupy a nuclear wasteland and maybe start WW3
Aren't these in the opposite order ?
Now banning Russian gas imports. This is escalating still...
Not good.
-
Aren't these in the opposite order ?
Now banning Russian gas imports. This is escalating still...
Not good.
Not if tactical nukes are used first. I don’t know how Russia could force anyone to buy their gas.
-
Majority of Democrats Polled Say They Would Flee, Not ‘Stay and Fight,’ if Russia Invaded US
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838
Is anyone really surprised?
-
Majority of Democrats Polled Say They Would Flee, Not ‘Stay and Fight,’ if Russia Invaded US
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838
Is anyone really surprised?
But the NRA has been a Putin organ for years. Your side has all the weapons
-
But the NRA has been a Putin organ for years. Your side has all the weapons
This new poll must be terribly embarrassing for you. Doesn’t make your side look very good does it? Yikes!
-
Not as embarrassed as I would be if my party were taking money from and carrying water for Putin for years leading up to this.
-
Majority of Democrats Polled Say They Would Flee, Not ‘Stay and Fight,’ if Russia Invaded US
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838
Is anyone really surprised?
People can say whatever they want, but we saw how quickly the convoy idiots folded at the slightest police pressure and how so many of the Jan. 6 arrestees flipped as fast as they could. Republicans are all talk. And of course, it's mostly right wingers who love Putin for his strongman persona and anti-woke positions so I expect a good portion of them would collaborate.
-
Not as embarrassed as I would be if my party were taking money from and carrying water for Putin for years leading up to this.
Your side has been taking Russian money. All of the anti fracking disinformation is paid for by Russian interests. You guys also take money from China.
-
Your side has been taking Russian money.
I thought it was all in Trump Tower 🤔
-
People can say whatever they want, but we saw how quickly the convoy idiots folded at the slightest police pressure and how so many of the Jan. 6 arrestees flipped as fast as they could. Republicans are all talk. And of course, it's mostly right wingers who love Putin for his strongman persona and anti-woke positions so I expect a good portion of them would collaborate.
So you’re criticizing the protesters for not resisting arrest. Classic! And if they did, you’d be trashing them for that. You’ve lost all credibility.
-
So you’re criticizing the protesters for not resisting arrest. Classic! And if they did, you’d be trashing them for that. You’ve lost all credibility.
Just pointing out that despite all the talk of never giving up and "hold the line" they folded like a cheap card table at the mildest pressure. All hat, no cattle.
-
Ooof. (https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501171543371665408?s=20&t=S5nEtnzrmSiAGs14Li6zkg)
-
Ooof. (https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501171543371665408?s=20&t=S5nEtnzrmSiAGs14Li6zkg)
What ?
-
What ?
it's a link, did you click on it?
-
it's a link, did you click on it?
Did. I did. Yes.
Why 'oof' ? What did you see there that surprised you in that way ?
-
Did. I did. Yes.
Why 'oof' ? What did you see there that surprised you in that way ?
Those guys are Nazis (https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab7dw/azov-battalion-ukraine-far-right), Michael.
-
What are you gonna do? They had to align with Stalin to beat Hitler too.
-
When did this fad of everybody being nazis start? The convoy protesters are nazis. The Ukrainians are nazis. Everybody’s a nazi! Sheesh. Nazis killed Jews. They had concentration camps. If neither of that is happening, nobody is a nazi.
-
If neither of that is happening, nobody is a nazi.
exactly what a Nazi would say 🤔
-
exactly what a Nazi would say 🤔
True.
-
When did this fad of everybody being nazis start? The convoy protesters are nazis. The Ukrainians are nazis. Everybody’s a nazi! Sheesh. Nazis killed Jews. They had concentration camps. If neither of that is happening, nobody is a nazi.
Ah yes, the "it's only champagne if it's from the Champagne region of France" argument but for fascists.
Can't imagine why anyone would brand these guys as Nazis.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9ea24d3cb24621f142621389f5fe9ab9-lq)
-
Poland has agreed to send fighter jets to Ukraine. This is definitely a game changer. That stuck Russian convoy is gonna get lit up if it doesn’t start moving again soon.
-
Correction. The Biden administration won’t approve the transfer of the planes from Poland to Ukraine.
-
Correction. The Biden administration won’t approve the transfer of the planes from Poland to Ukraine.
Really? I wouldn't think that the US Government could actually prohibit the Polish government from doing that. Or so I thought. How does Biden have that kind of authority? Can't the poles tell him to go screw himself?
-
Correction. The Biden administration won’t approve the transfer of the planes from Poland to Ukraine.
Where did you get that gem?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fighter-jets-ukraine-poland-deal/
-
Where did you get that gem?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fighter-jets-ukraine-poland-deal/
Where do you think he got it??? Shady makes sh!t up.
-
Where did you get that gem?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fighter-jets-ukraine-poland-deal/
There seems to be a little bit of... confusion... going on...
The US did want countries to donate fighter jets to Ukraine. But, when poland offered, the US hesitated...
From: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-surprised-polands-decision-give-it-fighter-jets-ukraine-2022-03-08/
The United States rejected a surprise offer by NATO ally Poland on Tuesday to transfer its Russian-made MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. base in Germany as a way to replenish Ukraine's air force...The United States has sought to speed weapons deliveries to Ukraine. But the prospect of flying combat aircraft from NATO territory into the war zone "raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance"
So it looks like it is an issue with the details... how the planes are to be transferred, where they are to be stationed, etc. (I suspect that had poland made an offer to fly the planes directly to Ukraine there might not have been an issue.)
-
Really? I wouldn't think that the US Government could actually prohibit the Polish government from doing that. Or so I thought. How does Biden have that kind of authority? Can't the poles tell him to go screw himself?
There are 2 issues at play here...
- Poland wasn't just donating the planes directly to the Ukraine, they proposed using NATO military bases in Germany as part of the transfer. Putin would have then claimed they were "Attacked by NATO", something that the Americans might have wanted to avoid
- Poland would have wanted replacements of some type (such as F16s) to replace the soviet-era fighters it was donating. This means they would have needed the US on board to supply the replacements.
-
Where did you get that gem?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fighter-jets-ukraine-poland-deal/
They haven’t approved it yet. They’re “working” on a deal.
-
There are 2 issues at play here...
- Poland wasn't just donating the planes directly to the Ukraine, they proposed using NATO military bases in Germany as part of the transfer. Putin would have then claimed they were "Attacked by NATO", something that the Americans might have wanted to avoid
- Poland would have wanted replacements of some type (such as F16s) to replace the soviet-era fighters it was donating. This means they would have needed the US on board to supply the replacements.
This is correct. This is the outstanding issue.
-
Is this a game changer?
-
Is this a game changer?
Not anymore. Biden administration rejects Poland’s offer. What a complete **** show.
https://twitter.com/jacquiheinrich/status/1501333459972800527?s=21
-
Ukrainian army captures abandoned vehicles of the Russian convoy.
https://twitter.com/jimmysecuk/status/1500149980576862210?s=21
You're wanting to drag NATO in so you can complain about "Biden's endless wars"?
-
Is this a game changer?
You mean if Ukraine gets the jets from Poland? Hard to say for sure (war is always complex like that), but I'd say probably not, but with a little hedging.
The jets that Ukraine would be getting would be older (a benefit since they would probably have the pilots and ground crews to handle them, but they would not be as capable as some of the Russian jets they might theoretically face.) And they would not have the same infrastructure that Russia has (Radar facilities, missile capabilities, etc.)
But, Ukraine has put up a remarkable defense so far and Russia has gotten bogged down in a conflict that they might have thought they could easily win. Perhaps additional planes might cause Putin enough headaches that it causes them to end the conflict earlier than expected.
-
You're wanting to drag NATO in so you can complain about "Biden's endless wars"?
And you want Putin to win.
-
And you want Putin to win.
More projection.
-
You're wanting to drag NATO in so you can complain about "Biden's endless wars"?
It's a win-win for a partisan hack like Shady: if NATO gets involved, Biden is dragging the west into another war; if NATO stays out of it, Biden is letting Putin win.
-
It's a win-win for a partisan hack like Shady: if NATO gets involved, Biden is dragging the west into another war; if NATO stays out of it, Biden is letting Putin win.
I’m a partisan hack? Nice projection. You mean like the win-win of the convoy protesters? If they fight the police you trash them, and if they’re law abiding and accept being arrested you trash them. That was your win-win. It was also the ever popular Black Dog Double Standard!
-
I’m a partisan hack.
Here, I fixed that for you.
You mean like the win-win of the convoy protesters? If they fight the police you trash them, and if they’re law abiding and accept being arrested you trash them.
That was your win-win. It was also the ever popular Black Dog Double Standard!
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout lol.
-
Here, I fixed that for you.
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout lol.
You can’t stand it when you’re confronted on your hypocrisy! 😂
-
You can’t stand it when you’re confronted on your hypocrisy! 😂
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout
-
whataboutwhataboutwhatabout
That’s what I figure. No real response. Most hypocrites don’t.
-
Btw, when are we going to discuss the American led and funded coup in Ukraine in 2014? Would that have played a role in the build up to this war?
-
Not anymore. Biden administration rejects Poland’s offer. What a complete **** show.
https://twitter.com/jacquiheinrich/status/1501333459972800527?s=21
Looks like they just nixed using US bases to do it. Why don't Ukrainian pilots just pick them up in Poland?
-
Looks like they just nixed using US bases to do it. Why don't Ukrainian pilots just pick them up in Poland?
Good question. You’d think they could think of a way. Like in WWII when the United States pushed planes across the Canadian border for Canada to send to Britain.
-
That’s what I figure. No real response. Most hypocrites don’t.
You're boring, get a new bit.
-
You're boring, get a new bit.
Then stop being a colossal hypocrite. Until then it will be brought to your attention indefinitely.
-
Then stop being a colossal hypocrite. Until then it will be brought to your attention indefinitely.
You don't realize how much that arguments shows you don't have an argument? You're a worse hypocrite than anyone and apparently much stupider than practically everyone.
-
You don't realize how much that arguments shows you don't have an argument? You're a worse hypocrite than anyone and apparently much stupider than practically everyone.
He does not. He's just that stupid.
Remember, this is a guy who's defence when confronted with his own rank hypocrisy is "you guys started it." You'll find deeper thinkers than this turd in any daycare sandbox.
-
You don't realize how much that arguments shows you don't have an argument? You're a worse hypocrite than anyone and apparently much stupider than practically everyone.
Complete nonsense. Pointing out somebody's hypocrisy doesn't limit me from making other arguments, like I have. It's just a separate observation. But, hypocrites defend hypocrites. No surprise.
-
Complete nonsense. Pointing out somebody's hypocrisy doesn't limit me from making other arguments, like I have. It's just a separate observation. But, hypocrites defend hypocrites. No surprise.
The reason you lean so much on whataboutism is obvious; when you try and make arguments, you get your ass kicked. It's almost like you get off on being humiliated.
-
He does not. He's just that stupid.
Remember, this is a guy who's defence when confronted with his own rank hypocrisy is "you guys started it." You'll find deeper thinkers than this turd in any daycare sandbox.
Complete nonsense. My defence wasn't that you guys started it, it was that you guys set the standard I'm following now, and holding you to. If you didn't like that standard, you shouldn't have supported it back then. That's just another example of your hypocrisy and double standards. Remember, your argument was essentially, I don't like those people, so I'm holding them to a different standard. That's juvenile and partisan.
-
Complete nonsense. My defence wasn't that you guys started it, it was that you guys set the standard I'm following now, and holding you to. If you didn't like that standard, you shouldn't have supported it back then. That's just another example of your hypocrisy and double standards. Remember, your argument was essentially, I don't like those people, so I'm holding them to a different standard. That's juvenile and partisan.
This is all totally incoherent but the bold is particularly dumb. Your whinging about hypocrisy always depends on you comparing two unrelated things, ignoring the context and genuinely boiling things down to simplistic false dichotomies. Or, as I said a few weeks back:
This what's called "retreat to abstraction". Ignoring the relevant details and specifics and focus on lofty ideals, when the specifics actually matter. it's what dumb people do when they can't win an argument on its merits.
Your moronic blubbering about "tearing down statues" is a perfect example of this at work.
-
This is all totally incoherent but the bold is particularly dumb. Your whinging about hypocrisy always depends on you comparing two unrelated things, ignoring the context and genuinely boiling things down to simplistic false dichotomies. Or, as I said a few weeks back:
Your moronic blubbering about "tearing down statues" is a perfect example of this at work.
I guess we can agree to disagree. This is thread drift.
.
-
I guess we can agree to disagree.
.
WTF just happened
-
Btw, when are we going to discuss the American led and funded coup in Ukraine in 2014? Would that have played a role in the build up to this war?
Let's put it this way. If that coupe was unpopular amongst average Ukrainians then Putin would have been welcomed in as a liberator. I'm sure that's what he was hoping.
The exact opposite has happened.
Overthrowing Yanukovych was a move away from fascism.
-
WTF just happened
I’m trying to be the bigger person going forward.
-
Let's put it this way. If that coupe was unpopular amongst average Ukrainians then Putin would have been welcomed in as a liberator. I'm sure that's what he was hoping.
The exact opposite has happened.
Overthrowing Yanukovych was a move away from fascism.
I tend to agree. But it can’t be denied that the west overthrowing the former Ukrainian government is part of the reason this conflict has taken place.
-
Anyone else see the ambush of the Russian tanks? That was pretty impressive.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/4863692/putin-tanks-destroyed-ukrainian-artillery-killed-commander/
-
I tend to agree. But it can’t be denied that the west overthrowing the former Ukrainian government is part of the reason this conflict has taken place.
It is, but Ukraine's decision to move closer to the West shouldn't be a provocation for War.
-
I’m trying to be the bigger person going forward.
the best way to show that you're the bigger person would be to delete your account again.
-
Should we be worried about the biolabs in Ukraine that could fall into Russian hands?
-
Should we be worried about the biolabs in Ukraine that could fall into Russian hands?
no worries Retro! Oh wait now... the waldo sees what you did there - don't be a PutinPoodle... don't be Retro!
(https://i.imgur.com/1TaMsO6.gif)
-
It's amusing how Q-Tards have made Anthony Fauci out to be some sort of Cartoon villain.
Fauci and Hunter Biden started this war!!!!
-
Should we be worried about the biolabs in Ukraine that could fall into Russian hands?
Who had "Shady pushing Russian-generated, Chinese amplified propaganda talking points" on their bingo card today?
-
no worries Retro! Oh wait now... the waldo sees what you did there - don't be a PutinPoodle... don't be Retro!
(https://i.imgur.com/1TaMsO6.gif)
I agree. There are no U.S. run bio labs in Ukraine. I didn’t say there was. There’s no U.S. run bio lab in Wuhan either. What’s your point?
-
I agree. There are no U.S. run bio labs in Ukraine. I didn’t say there was. There’s no U.S. run bio lab in Wuhan either. What’s your point?
Ukraine doesn't even have a BsL-3 lab lol.
-
Ukraine doesn't even have a BsL-3 lab lol.
Why are you adding all of these qualifiers?
-
Why are you adding all of these qualifiers?
If you knew what the term meant you'd know I'm actually answering your question "Should we be worried about the biolabs in Ukraine that could fall into Russian hands?"
-
If you knew what the term meant you'd know I'm actually answering your question "Should we be worried about the biolabs in Ukraine that could fall into Russian hands?"
Yes, like the one in Odessa. What’s the conspiracy exactly?
-
Yes, like the one in Odessa. What’s the conspiracy exactly?
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy here, I'm simply pointing out that there's not much issue with those labs falling into Russia's hands when they only work on pathogens with moderate health impacts, while Russia itself already has two BSL-4 labs working with the most deadly viruses there are.
-
I didn't say anything about a conspiracy here, I'm simply pointing out that there's not much issue with those labs falling into Russia's hands when they only work on pathogens with moderate health impacts, while Russia itself already has two BSL-4 labs working with the most deadly viruses there are.
Because they say so?
-
Because they say so?
Who says so? What the **** are you talking about? Do you even know at this point?
-
Who says so? What the **** are you talking about? Do you even know at this point?
At this point you're just a stenographer for the government. You don't even care what was and has been said in the past.
"In Odessa, where 44 scientists and 140 staff carry out research in the II Mechnikov Anti-plague Scientific and Research Institute, scientists wear cotton smocks and surgical masks to work with lethal microbes that in the West would be locked in high-containment laboratories and handled only by scientists in spacesuits."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/odessa-labs-host-deadly-legacy-1.483244
-
At this point you're just a stenographer for the government. You don't even care what was and has been said in the past.
"In Odessa, where 44 scientists and 140 staff carry out research in the II Mechnikov Anti-plague Scientific and Research Institute, scientists wear cotton smocks and surgical masks to work with lethal microbes that in the West would be locked in high-containment laboratories and handled only by scientists in spacesuits."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/odessa-labs-host-deadly-legacy-1.483244
And?
-
And?
And it’s not some conspiracy theory. Stop insisting that it is.
-
And it’s not some conspiracy theory. Stop insisting that it is.
Where did i say it was a conspiracy theory moron?
The false Russian claim (amplified by China) that there are U.S. bioweapons lans in Ukraine is built on the reality of existing infectious disease research labs, no one is contesting that the latter exist. But I see U.S. right wingers like FOX news are pushing the "the U.S. is funding biolabs in Ukraine" line to conflate the two and prey on the ignorant and gullible and justify the Russian invasion because the US right sees in Putin's Russia their ideal society.
-
Where did i say it was a conspiracy theory moron?
The false Russian claim (amplified by China) that there are U.S. bioweapons lans in Ukraine is built on the reality of existing infectious disease research labs, no one is contesting that the latter exist. But I see U.S. right wingers like FOX news are pushing the "the U.S. is funding biolabs in Ukraine" line to conflate the two and prey on the ignorant and gullible and justify the Russian invasion because the US right sees in Putin's Russia their ideal society.
But they are funding labs there. Or at least they were.
-
NATO in 1998 vs 2022. Remember, the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.
[attachimg=1]
-
What do you have against independent countries choosing their own fate democratically?
-
NATO in 1998 vs 2022. Remember, the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.
You didn’t even know who was in NATO a few pages ago but now you have an opinion on NATO that anyone should take seriously??
LOL
Shady’s knowledge about NATO: Are you willing to risk an actual world war over Russia retaking a Baltic state? Because that’s what would happen if the Baltic states become part of NATO and Russia invades.
What a fuckin’ buffoon.
-
But they are funding labs there. Or at least they were.
Yeah they gave Ukraine $15M (chump change in the grand scheme of things) to beef up the security in their labs after the fall of the Soviet Union. Do you think there's something sinister about that?
-
Wow, I go away for a few days and this whole thread turns into a personality conflict between people who haven't ever met each other in person.
-
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=4c182ae4f304f9c6a4d5ab9f816cc8285e24e1ac)
-
Yeah they gave Ukraine $15M (chump change in the grand scheme of things) to beef up the security in their labs after the fall of the Soviet Union. Do you think there's something sinister about that?
Stop pretending that you know the exact dollar amount that’s been given to Ukrainian biolabs. You have no idea. Nobody really does. We only need to look at how long it took to uncover the U.S. funding of the Wuhan virology lab. Your assertion of $15 million dollars is laughable. The program you’re referring to was 17 years long, and still counting.
-
What do you have against independent countries choosing their own fate democratically?
I don’t have anything against them. I do have questions about the leadership of a group that’s constantly pushing to expand though. Seemingly not caring about the geopolitical consequences to the countries they go out and recruit.
-
Stop pretending that you know the exact dollar amount that’s been given to Ukrainian biolabs. You have no idea. Nobody really does.
The exact dollar figure is irrelevant unless you believe there is something nefarious going on in those labs. But you wouldn't be implying that without evidence, would you?
We only need to look at how long it took to uncover the U.S. funding of the Wuhan virology lab. Your assertion of $15 million dollars is laughable. The program you’re referring to was 17 years long, and still counting.
LMAO I love it when you go full conspiracy-tard.
-
The exact dollar figure is irrelevant unless you believe there is something nefarious going on in those labs. But you wouldn't be implying that without evidence, would you?
LMAO I love it when you go full conspiracy-tard.
Define nefarious. Regardless, you keep claiming that facts and accepted reality is/are conspiracies. They’re not. You’re just grossly uninformed, probably because you spend so much time in this echo chamber.
-
Did the US fund virus research in China?
Yes, it did contribute some funds.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/57932699.amp
-
Define nefarious. Regardless, you keep claiming that facts and accepted reality is/are conspiracies. They’re not. You’re just grossly uninformed, probably because you spend so much time in this echo chamber.
I've never said anything about any conspiracies around Ukraine labs, but the fact is it's impossible to actually address what your claims because you're too gutless to come out and say what it is you mean. But it sure seems like you're a believer in Russia's claims of bioweapons in Ukraine. i guess you didn't actually learn your lesson about bogus WMDs from the Iraq debacle you supported.
-
Did the US fund virus research in China?
Yes, it did contribute some funds.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/57932699.amp
So? This was public knowledge for years. Anyone could have looked it up on the NIH website at any point in the last 7 years, it wasn't a secret.
-
So? This was public knowledge for years.
Please don't interfere with narratives that paint everything as a conspiracy thriller. It spoils it for those who don't understand how the world works.
-
Please don't interfere with narratives that paint everything as a conspiracy thriller. It spoils it for those who don't understand how the world works.
It's tough for the idiot because he can't come right out and say he supports Putin because even he has some basic understanding that that would be beyond the pale, so he has to edge around it and make implications without actually stating his real beliefs, which are that anyone or anything that makes Biden or the liberal west look bad is good in his books.
-
It's tough for the idiot because he can't come right out and say he supports Putin because even he has some basic understanding that that would be beyond the pale, so he has to edge around it and make implications without actually stating his real beliefs, which are that anyone or anything that makes Biden or the liberal west look bad is good in his books.
Acknowledging reality and facts isn’t pro-Putin or pro-Biden. Get your head out of your ass. This isn’t a sporting event.
-
Acknowledging reality and facts isn’t pro-Putin or pro-Biden. Get your head out of your ass. This isn’t a sporting event.
Says the guy pushing Russian propaganda about scary biolabs lol.
-
Says the guy pushing Russian propaganda about scary biolabs lol.
Biolabs in Ukraine is not propaganda, it’s fact. Is the W.H.O. In on the propaganda as well? 😂
-
Joe Biden is holding up the jets to Ukraine. He will not allow Ukraine to have them.
-
Joe Biden is holding up the jets to Ukraine. He will not allow Ukraine to have them.
You want NATO to get involved now? I thought you decided your Republican wars were a bad idea? Now you want more?
-
You want NATO to get involved now? I thought you decided your Republican wars were a bad idea? Now you want more?
NATO is already giving them weapons. They’re using American weapons systems to destroy Russian tanks and shoot down Russian jets and helicopters.
-
NATO is already giving them weapons. They’re using American weapons systems to destroy Russian tanks and shoot down Russian jets and helicopters.
Planes need pilots trained to use them.
-
Planes need pilots trained to use them.
They certainly do. So I think drones would be a better idea. Anyone can buy a drone these days, so who's to say where the drone came from when it blows up a few Russian tanks?
-
oh my! What does this recent Putin speech to 'the Russian people' forebode? (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1504144475169476609/pu/vid/884x474/k16BXNEnI4TBodDW.mp4?tag=12) ... Putin lashing out against the so-called 'fifth column' of "Russians with a Western mindset - of National traitors".
clearly there is some degree of internal Russian dissent against the invasion and war against Ukraine - ever increasing images of open protest have been filtering out; the recent interruption on 'state TV' was highly symbolic:
(https://swimswam.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Marina-Ovsyannikova.jpg)
'western' sanctions against Russia are having an ever increasing impact on the Russian economy/populace - that China may well move to help support Putin (economically if not more) is a testament to just how impacting sanctions have been. And then there's this recent Putin response:
(https://i.imgur.com/FpusKcT.gif)
-
IOW Waldo, the Russians are starting to hurt from these sanctions.
I don't think it is a question of if there will be a coup in Moscow, but when. I give the old bastard two months, at least. (Wow, we should have some sort of betting pool on Putin's overthrow!)
-
Planes need pilots trained to use them.
Luckily the have pilots. That’s why they’re asking for the planes.
-
Luckily the have pilots. That’s why they’re asking for the planes.
You have to be trained to fly the specific planes, dum-dum.
-
You have to be trained to fly the specific planes, dum-dum.
They are.
-
They are.
But why would anyone ever believe anything you say without a citation? You're half-retarded and a shitty liar.
-
But why would anyone ever believe anything you say without a citation? You're half-retarded and a shitty liar.
Why would anyone ever believe anything you say about them not being trained? It only takes a quick google search to find out that Ukrainian pilots are trained to fly Russian Migs. Keep making excuses for Biden.
-
It only takes a quick google search to find out that Ukrainian pilots are trained to fly Russian Migs. Keep making excuses for Biden.
You want Biden to give them Russian Migs?
But I thought you were opposed to the endless wars? Why do you want to draw the U.S. into another one? Haven't you learned from your previous disasters?
-
You want Biden to give them Russian Migs?
But I thought you were opposed to the endless wars? Why do you want to draw the U.S. into another one? Haven't you learned from your previous disasters?
How does giving Ukraine jets drawing the U.S. into another war? How is giving a jet different than giving anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons systems? Did you know that the U.S. pushed planes across the Canadian border in WWII so that they could supply aircraft to Britain without getting directly involved in the war?
-
How does giving Ukraine jets drawing the U.S. into another war? How is giving a jet different than giving anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons systems? Did you know that the U.S. pushed planes across the Canadian border in WWII so that they could supply aircraft to Britain without getting directly involved in the war?
Your questions are based on the assumption you have a clue what you're talking about. You still haven't explained where Biden would be getting the Russian Migs he's supposed to give away.
-
Rather than rely on the foreign policy expertise of someone who is informed exclusively by Facebook memes, he's providing weapons they can actually use.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/ukraine-asks-biden-admin-armed-drones-jamming-gear-surface-air-missile-rcna20197
-
Your questions are based on the assumption you have a clue what you're talking about. You still haven't explained where Biden would be getting the Russian Migs he's supposed to give away.
Biden won’t authorize the transfer of the jets. What part of that can’t you understand? You’re grasping for excuse after excuse. First, Ukrainian pilots can’t fly the planes. That was false. Next was it will drag America into the war. That was false. Now it’s that they’re getting drones so they’re not asking for planes anymore. That is false.
-
They have determined that would escalate the war and draw Nato in. They know more than you do because they have foreign policy experience beyond reading memes on Facebook.
If they did draw Nato in, you would be the first complaining about it. You have no credibility. All you want is to bring right-wing autocracy to the west and you will try to undermine everything until you succeed.
-
Biolabs in Ukraine is not propaganda, it’s fact. Is the W.H.O. In on the propaganda as well? 😂
The propaganda is that these are bioweapon labs, which you clearly think is the case.
-
They have determined that would escalate the war and draw Nato in. They know more than you do because they have foreign policy experience beyond reading memes on Facebook.
If they did draw Nato in, you would be the first complaining about it. You have no credibility. All you want is to bring right-wing autocracy to the west and you will try to undermine everything until you succeed.
I really don't think it's that deep with him, he has his team and supports them and reflexively opposes anything the other team does no matter what. It's the politics-as-sports model and doesn't reflect any actual deeply held beliefs or principles on his part.
-
I would have believed that before Jan. 6, 2021.
-
They have determined that would escalate the war and draw Nato in. They know more than you do because they have foreign policy experience beyond reading memes on Facebook.
If they did draw Nato in, you would be the first complaining about it. You have no credibility. All you want is to bring right-wing autocracy to the west and you will try to undermine everything until you succeed.
They haven't determined anything. NATO countries like Poland want to give the jets to Ukraine. Biden is the one that won't allow it, not NATO. Regardless, I have no idea what you're talking about when you bring up right-wing autocracy. Get professional help, you're demented.
-
I really don't think it's that deep with him, he has his team and supports them and reflexively opposes anything the other team does no matter what. It's the politics-as-sports model and doesn't reflect any actual deeply held beliefs or principles on his part.
That's great projection and describes you perfectly, especially when it comes to sexualizing 5 year olds. Maybe you can make the distinction between giving Ukraine anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons systems to use to kill Russians, but not planes. Because Bubber still hasn't been able to other than rely on "Biden's determination" that it would "escalate".
-
Because Bubber still hasn't been able to other than rely on "Biden's determination" that it would "escalate".
Can you at least cite the Facebook meme that told you it wouldn't escalate?
-
REEEEEEEEEE
same sh*t every time.
-
The fact that Republicans can fire up their base by saying the U.S. should be sending more lethal weapons to Ukraine while simultaneously voting against it is exactly why everything is as screwed up as it is. They literally weaponize the stupidity of their followers.
https://twitter.com/Skel531/status/1504290355088400384?t=YELHdUa0iqBUcE7fyg4nBA&s=19
-
The fact that Republicans can fire up their base by saying the U.S. should be sending more lethal weapons to Ukraine while simultaneously voting against it is exactly why everything is as screwed up as it is. They literally weaponize the stupidity of their followers.
https://twitter.com/Skel531/status/1504290355088400384?t=YELHdUa0iqBUcE7fyg4nBA&s=19
It's actually bipartisan. Democrats want the jets sent to Ukraine as well. What do you mean by more lethal? How is a jet more lethal than say a stinger missile?
-
same sh*t every time.
Get back to me when you've made the distinction between giving jets vs anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons systems. Until then STFU.
-
Get back to me when you've made the distinction between giving jets vs anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons systems. Until then STFU.
Giving anti-tank and AA weapons actually does some good whereas providing a bunch of aging jets is not going to change the situation on the ground at all and would represent a more visible escalation in NATO involvement, involving as it would the coordination of several NATO nations.
There's your answer, moron. Now go get your shinebox.
-
Giving anti-tank and AA weapons actually does some good whereas providing a bunch of aging jets is not going to change the situation on the ground at all and would represent a more visible escalation in NATO involvement, involving as it would the coordination of several NATO nations.
There's your answer, moron. Now go get your shinebox.
Why would giving weapons that you suggest are old escalate the situation if they're not going to be effective at changing the situation on the ground? Why is giving weapons like anti-tank weapons systems that have changed the situation on the ground and killed Russian soldiers not be escalating? This is nonsensical.
-
Why would giving weapons that you suggest are old escalate the situation if they're not going to be effective at changing the situation on the ground? Why is giving weapons like anti-tank weapons systems that have changed the situation on the ground and killed Russian soldiers not be escalating? This is nonsensical.
IDK why don't you read up on the subject (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/proposed-plan-sending-fighter-jets-ukraine-hits-logistical-snag-rcna19083)instead of running your mouth?
Officials are similarly worried that Russia could see supplying military aircraft as direct involvement in the conflict. Polish President Andrzej Duda said last week that his country would not send any planes to Ukraine because it might be seen as interfering in the war, while Russian President Vladimir Putin has signaled that supplying fighter jets would constitute direct involvement.
-
The fact that Republicans can fire up their base by saying the U.S. should be sending more lethal weapons to Ukraine while simultaneously voting against it is exactly why everything is as screwed up as it is. They literally weaponize the stupidity of their followers.
https://twitter.com/Skel531/status/1504290355088400384?t=YELHdUa0iqBUcE7fyg4nBA&s=19
The same party whose last president, when asked for help by Ukraine, tried to extort Zelensky instead. They're scum and so is anyone who supports them.
-
IDK why don't you read up on the subject (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/proposed-plan-sending-fighter-jets-ukraine-hits-logistical-snag-rcna19083)instead of running your mouth?
Yes, I never said that it's not easier to send hand held weapons. In WWII the United States pushed planes across the Canadian border.
-
The same party whose last president, when asked for help by Ukraine, tried to extort Zelensky instead. They're scum and so is anyone who supports them.
It was Biden that threatened to withhold aid unless they stopped an investigation into his son. He's on video bragging about it. It was also Democrats who pressured Ukraine to give up it's weapons in the 90s for security guarantees. How'd that work out?
-
It was Biden that threatened to withhold aid unless they stopped an investigation into his son. He's on video bragging about it. It was also Democrats who pressured Ukraine to give up it's weapons in the 90s for security guarantees. How'd that work out?
Typical distortion from a lying liar and gullible idiot. You're nothing but a vehicle for cringey memes and GOP talking points and don't have an original thought in your head.
-
Yes, I never said that it's not easier to send hand held weapons. In WWII the United States pushed planes across the Canadian border.
LOL of course you completely missed the point. Stupid AND dishonest is a bad combo for you.
-
Typical distortion from a lying liar and gullible idiot. You're nothing but a vehicle for cringey memes and GOP talking points and don't have an original thought in your head.
What's the distortion? It's a fact. Regardless, Ukraine got more aid and especially more weapons from Trump than from Obama or Biden. That's also a fact.
-
LOL of course you completely missed the point. Stupid AND dishonest is a bad combo for you.
Yes, I missed the point of your excuses for Biden stonewalling the jets to Ukraine. Being a partisan hack must get tiring, no? If Trump has singlehandedly withheld the jet transfer to Ukraine, you'd be calling him a Putin puppet.
-
What's the distortion? It's a fact.
It's a bold-faced lie.
Yes, I missed the point of your excuses for Biden stonewalling the jets to Ukraine. Being a partisan hack must get tiring, no? If Trump has singlehandedly withheld the jet transfer to Ukraine, you'd be calling him a Putin puppet.
You missed the point that the Russians themselves have said it would be an escalation. Maybe you should learn to read something longer than a meme, dumbass.
-
It's a bold-faced lie.
You missed the point that the Russians themselves have said it would be an escalation. Maybe you should learn to read something longer than a meme, dumbass.
No, it's not a lie.
I may have missed the Russians indicating that that would escalate the situation. Do you have a link?
-
No, it's not a lie.
I may have missed the Russians indicating that that would escalate the situation. Do you have a link?
That was a fundamental part of the story. The only way you could have missed it is if you get your information from blogs tailored to exploit your foolish gullibility.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10583491/Russia-warns-countries-supplying-Ukraine-jets-regarded-participants.html
-
No, it's not a lie.
Yes it is but whatever.
I may have missed the Russians indicating that that would escalate the situation. Do you have a link?
Literally in a post above that you already replied to. Do you need help wiping your own ass too?
-
I can't for the life of me believe that Shady actually believes the bullshit he posts. He just says nonsense to get a rise out of people and folks walk right into it.
-
I can't for the life of me believe that Shady actually believes the bullshit he posts. He just says nonsense to get a rise out of people and folks walk right into it.
I do think he really is that stupid, but also agree that he’s a troll.
I really believe he thought he had a well formed opinion of NATO, despite the fact that he didn’t even know who was actually a part of NATO.
Stupid and a troll…. It’s an interesting combination as a lot of his posts actually do come off as sincere…. it’s difficult to separate the astronomically stupid, from the blatant trolling.
-
I can't for the life of me believe that Shady actually believes the bullshit he posts. He just says nonsense to get a rise out of people and folks walk right into it.
Can you provide an example?
-
Can you provide an example?
How about more than a thousand (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=93) (and that's just from your new account lol).
-
(https://i.imgur.com/mtysxw0.gif)
-
Is there anything Elon Musk can’t do? This is one of the many reasons he’s my favourite person in the world!
Elon Musk's satellites help Zelensky dominate the skies: US billionaire's internet system is allowing Ukrainian drones to pound Putin's helpless tanks
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10630625/Elon-Musks-internet-allowing-Ukrainian-drones-pound-Putins-helpless-tanks.html
-
(https://i.imgur.com/mtysxw0.gif)
Why only 3 years? Why not permanent residents? Aren’t refugees from Syria here for life?
-
Why only 3 years? Why not permanent residents?
the CUAET (Canada-Ukraine Authorization for Emergency Travel) is intended as a temporary measure/program; one more particularly aligned to provide Ukrainians a 'safe haven' in the face of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine... also in consideration of Ukrainians who might wish to eventually return to their country. Certainly at the end of 3 years the option to extend is available.
more pointedly, as Canada has the 3rd largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world with some 1.4 million people, the federal government will shortly announce a special family reunification sponsorship pathway. This targeted program will allow Ukrainian nationals to reunite with their immediate and extended family members who are Canadian citizens or permanent residents and settle in Canada permanently.
-
the CUAET (Canada-Ukraine Authorization for Emergency Travel) is intended as a temporary measure/program; one more particularly aligned to provide Ukrainians a 'safe haven' in the face of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine... also in consideration of Ukrainians who might wish to eventually return to their country. Certainly at the end of 3 years the option to extend is available.
more pointedly, as Canada has the 3rd largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world with some 1.4 million people, the federal government will shortly announce a special family reunification sponsorship pathway. This targeted program will allow Ukrainian nationals to reunite with their immediate and extended family members who are Canadian citizens or permanent residents and settle in Canada permanently.
That doesn’t answer the question. Why only 3 years and why just temporary? Why are Syrian refugees given permanent residence in Canada? Why is it not also temporary? Why do Ukrainian refugees need family members in Canada to stay permanently under family reunification when Syrian refugees don’t?
-
Is there anything Elon Musk can’t do? This is one of the many reasons he’s my favourite person in the world!
Build a self driving car that actually works? Make a workplace that isn't horribly unsafe and racist? Have a successful marriage? Grow his own hair?
-
Why only 3 years? Why not permanent residents? Aren’t refugees from Syria here for life?
Not the right color.
-
Not the right color.
That’s what I was thinking too. They’re not the right colour and aren’t big fans of socialism/communism. So not Liberal voters.
-
the CUAET (Canada-Ukraine Authorization for Emergency Travel) is intended as a temporary measure/program; one more particularly aligned to provide Ukrainians a 'safe haven' in the face of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine... also in consideration of Ukrainians who might wish to eventually return to their country. Certainly at the end of 3 years the option to extend is available.
more pointedly, as Canada has the 3rd largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world with some 1.4 million people, the federal government will shortly announce a special family reunification sponsorship pathway. This targeted program will allow Ukrainian nationals to reunite with their immediate and extended family members who are Canadian citizens or permanent residents and settle in Canada permanently.
That doesn’t answer the question. Why only 3 years and why just temporary?
Not the right color.
That’s what I was thinking too. They’re not the right colour and aren’t big fans of socialism/communism. So not Liberal voters.
hey Retro! The waldo is shocked that this was/is your underlying thought; shocked you weren't up front in stating it! Shocked I tells ya!
again, by design the CUAET is a temporary residence pathway; it is not intended as a refugee stream. Again, given the significantly high number of Canadians of Ukrainian heritage, the government is anticipating a large application response to it's targeted special Ukrainian family reunification sponsorship pathway... the waldo's crack research team hasn't found any qualifications/caveats within this targeted pathway aligned with, as you 2 numbskulls blather on about, colour!
notwithstanding the government is already engaged in resettling 40,000 Afghan refugees over the coming years, 'Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada' (IRCC) previously announced the following immigrant target plan (by increased number/class) intended to guide its operations:
(https://i.imgur.com/TsGVZQR.gif)
but again, 'early days' in a most fluid/dynamic concern. By the by, the CUAET somewhat parallels the European Union Commissions activation of its, 'Temporary Protection Directive' (https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/policies/migration-and-asylum/common-european-asylum-system/temporary-protection_en)... you're welcome!
-
But why would anyone ever believe anything you say without a citation? You're half-retarded and a shitty liar.
They want Mig-29's and Sukhois from Poland and other former East Bloc countries because that is what they operate themselves.
-
Back in the late 80's and early 90's, both Russia and Ukraine demonstrated the Mig-29 and Sukhoi 27 at the Abbotsford airshow. Also the Antonov 225 which was the worlds largest aircraft designed to carry the Soviet space shuttle. Antonov is a Ukrainian company and the only AN 225 was destroyed in a Russian attack a week or so ago.
What impressed me was the SU-27 which is a very large Mach 2+ aircraft did its whole routine within the airport boundary.
The Mig and Sukhoi were sensational, doing maneuvers no one had seen from jet fighters like tail slides and the Cobra where the Sukhoi pitches up more than 90 degrees and almost seems to fly backward for a second before pitching back into forward flight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGbQCXNxic
-
Canon scrumbag who gave Tucker Carlson talking points exposed.
https://www.adl.org/blog/unmasking-clandestine-the-figure-behind-the-viral-ukrainian-biolab-conspiracy-theory
-
Canon scrumbag who gave Tucker Carlson talking points exposed.
https://www.adl.org/blog/unmasking-clandestine-the-figure-behind-the-viral-ukrainian-biolab-conspiracy-theory
It's wild how the QAnon movement and its various wacky offshoots have metastasized and basically become the bedrock philosophy of the GOP (witness their recent embrace of calling anyone who doesn't agree with their repressive anti-freedom of speech laws ****.)
-
Canon scrumbag who gave Tucker Carlson talking points exposed.
https://www.adl.org/blog/unmasking-clandestine-the-figure-behind-the-viral-ukrainian-biolab-conspiracy-theory
But there are biolabs in Ukraine
-
But there are biolabs in Ukraine
Which has nothing to do with the biolab conspiracy theory.
-
But there are biolabs in Ukraine
and... wait for it... wait for it... Hunter Biden’s Rosemont Seneca investment fund financed the Pentagon’s military biological program in Ukraine! Amirite, amirite... or what, hey Retro!
-
and... wait for it... wait for it... Hunter Biden’s Rosemont Seneca investment fund financed the Pentagon’s military biological program in Ukraine! Amirite, amirite... or what, hey Retro!
I don't know about any of that, but Biden's Undersecretary testified about them in front of Congress a few weeks ago. They were quite concerned that Russia would get control of them, and their contents.
-
I don't know about any of that, but Biden's Undersecretary testified about them in front of Congress a few weeks ago. They were quite concerned that Russia would get control of them, and their contents.
I can't tell if you're being disingenuous on purpose or literally have snails in you skull.
-
The media is in a full push to advocate for NATO and the United States to get directly involved in the war. They’re actually pressing the Biden administration to put American troops in Ukraine to fight Russian troops.
-
The media is in a full push to advocate for NATO and the United States to get directly involved in the war. They’re actually pressing the Biden administration to put American troops in Ukraine to fight Russian troops.
Who? Where?
-
Who? Where?
It’s almost every day now.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/news/reporter-asks-psaki-why-not-send-u-s-troops-into-ukraine-after-atrocities-committed-by-russia/amp/
-
So one guy asked a question, and it was answered...
-
Boris Johnson in Ukraine, walking the streets of Kyiv.
https://twitter.com/defenceu/status/1512867082932793347?s=21&t=NGjaIKi0VEeWFHtdcYrXCQ
-
trideNtrue snowball throwing tactic: throw attention distracting snowballs high into the air... shortly followup with direct assault!
Ukraine follows tactic with distracting drones dropping a few bombs on the 'flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet', the guided missile cruiser, 'Moskva'... shortly followed by {2} Neptune missiles that ultimately caused the Moskva to sink.
(https://i0.wp.com/i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/04/14/00/56589099-0-image-a-52_1649892626652.jpg)
-
Would it not be prudent for Ukraine to just give the Donbass and Luhansk to Russia? It appears that Russia would rather destroy these regions than let Ukraine retain them.
It's weird that Russia "needs" more territory, but I suspect these regions are ethically Russian anyway.
I'm not being pro-Russian here, but fighting for these regions just means a protracted war and Western resources spent on regions that'll be in Civil War for decades.
-
Would it not be prudent for Ukraine to just give the Donbass and Luhansk to Russia? It appears that Russia would rather destroy these regions than let Ukraine retain them.
at the recent WEF conference, yesterday'sManKissinger called for Ukraine to cede land to Russia to {presumably} bring an end to the war. => Zelensky rips Kissinger over suggestion Ukraine cede territory to Russia (https://thehill.com/news/3502032-zelensky-rips-kissinger-over-suggestion-ukraine-cede-territory-to-russia/)
given Russia's 'annexation' of Crimea, why would... should... Ukrainians believe Putin would simply stop with the Donbas region and not eventually continue to advance on the complete regions of Luhansk & Donetsk? And, of course, Putin has designs on those southern areas that border Crimea and provide the relished "land bridge" from Crimea into Russia proper?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1173E/production/_124868417_ukraine_invasion_south_map_2x640-nc.png)
-
Would it not be prudent for Ukraine to just give the Donbass and Luhansk to Russia? It appears that Russia would rather destroy these regions than let Ukraine retain them.
It's weird that Russia "needs" more territory, but I suspect these regions are ethically Russian anyway.
I'm not being pro-Russian here, but fighting for these regions just means a protracted war and Western resources spent on regions that'll be in Civil War for decades.
I think they’ll need to make it painful for Russia to ensure Russia is happy with only taking those regions.
-
I think they’ll need to make it painful for Russia to ensure Russia is happy with only taking those regions.
This is already painful for Russia. They've depleted their supply of modernized equipment and are reactivating outdated and badly maintained junk to send into Ukraine. They're calling up middle-age reservists who haven't been in uniform for 20 years. Their losses in both personnel and equipment has been far beyond anything they imagined and they're completely unprepared for it.
-k
-
Apparently, it’s confirmed that Putin has cancer.
Don’t be surprised if he nukes someone on his way out of this life…
-
Apparently, it’s confirmed that Putin has cancer.
Don’t be surprised if he nukes someone on his way out of this life…
Hopefully somebody in the new empire recognizes how badly that would go for Russia and puts him out of his misery before he gets the chance. There are a lot of highly placed, highly privileged people in the inner circle who have a lot to lose if the new czar decides he wants to go out in a blaze of glory.
-k
-
Apparently, it’s confirmed that Putin has cancer.
Don’t be surprised if he nukes someone on his way out of this life…
Not to be that guy, but cite?
-
Not to be that guy, but cite?
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357
The classified U.S. report says Putin seems to have re-emerged after undergoing treatment in April for advanced cancer, three U.S. intelligence leaders who have read the reports tell Newsweek.
"advanced"
-
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357
The classified U.S. report says Putin seems to have re-emerged after undergoing treatment in April for advanced cancer, three U.S. intelligence leaders who have read the reports tell Newsweek.
"advanced"
Interesting. Crazy I missed this. How can a dying man stay in power like this?
-
Interesting. Crazy I missed this. How can a dying man stay in power like this?
Maybe it's also interesting how 'intelligence' reports are no longer widely reported ?
Newsweek is happy to report this but not CNN or FOX who report "rumours".
Steele Dossier, WMD impact ?
-
Interesting. Crazy I missed this. How can a dying man stay in power like this?
Which dictator gives up power upon reflection of their own mortality. We’ll be lucky if Putin dies without dropping a nuke first….
-
Which dictator gives up power upon reflection of their own mortality. We’ll be lucky if Putin dies without dropping a nuke first….
Like all dictators, he will have made many enemies. Without power, he will be a sitting duck for them.
-
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357
The classified U.S. report says Putin seems to have re-emerged after undergoing treatment in April for advanced cancer, three U.S. intelligence leaders who have read the reports tell Newsweek.
"advanced"
Is this like WMD in Iraq? Sorry, but fool me once. I see this as nothing more than propaganda.
-
It’s time for a peace deal to be brokered. The ruble is higher now than when the war started. Sanctions are helping fuel inflation and shortages. Russia can continue this slog for many many months and it’s only going to get worse for Ukraine.
-
Is this like WMD in Iraq? Sorry, but fool me once. I see this as nothing more than propaganda.
The Republicans keep fooling you. We told you the WMD story was fake at the time but you didn't listen.
-
The Republicans keep fooling you. We told you the WMD story was fake at the time but you didn't listen.
Then why have you been trusting the same sources for the last 10+ years? You digest every spoon full of propaganda they send your way. Whether it’s Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Russia, Putin has cancer, Putin paid ransoms, January 6th, etc. You take everything they say as gospel. Why haven’t you learned anything?
-
Is this like WMD in Iraq? Sorry, but fool me once. I see this as nothing more than propaganda.
Coming from the guy who bought the biolab story, that's pretty rich. There's nothing you won;t fall for
-
Then why have you been trusting the same sources for the last 10+ years? You digest every spoon full of propaganda they send your way. Whether it’s Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Russia, Putin has cancer, Putin paid ransoms, January 6th, etc. You take everything they say as gospel. Why haven’t you learned anything?
lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
-
Still waiting on that Putin Cancer. :-[
The War in Ukraine has provided made the other site way more interesting. Fighting with Putin appeasers is fun.
-
Russian missile strikes within Poland, a NATO ally.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6652345
-
. Fighting with Putin appeasers is fun.
No, it's not. They're idiots and they're way too dumb to even realize it.
-
Still waiting on that Putin Cancer. :-[
The War in Ukraine has provided made the other site way more interesting. Fighting with Putin appeasers is fun.
I’m still waiting as well. It’s amazing how many people just accept what the intelligence and military industrial complex tell them as fact. Despite now decades of either being wrong or flat out lying. No lessons learned apparently.
-
I'm glad you learned your lesson after I told you how Bush/Cheney were lying to you. You should heed my counsel more often. You wouldn't have lost all that money on crypto and you wouldn't have to be pretending you didn't cheer on Trump's riot.
-
I can't tell if you're being disingenuous on purpose or literally have snails in you skull.
So why haven't you learned your lesson? Why do you automatically believe information from the same intelligence sources?
-
Well, looks like they're saying the missile was actually fired from a Ukrainian air defence system.
-
What’s crazy is that before anything was really know about what exactly happened, Zelensky quickly pushed for NATO to intervene and declare war on Russia. He doesn’t give a **** about starting WWIII. He’s almost as irresponsible as Putin.
-
Well, looks like they're saying the missile was actually fired from a Ukrainian air defence system.
It's a relief that it's not Russia's missile and Poland has no intention of invoking article 4.
What’s crazy is that before anything was really know about what exactly happened, Zelensky quickly pushed for NATO to intervene and declare war on Russia. He doesn’t give a **** about starting WWIII. He’s almost as irresponsible as Putin.
Yeah **** that guy for trying to get the international community to help stop the attacks on his country, amirite?
Terrible week for Putin. Lost Kherson, lost the US midterms, very very sad, you hate to see it.
-k
-
It's a relief that it's not Russia's missile and Poland has no intention of invoking article 4.
Yeah **** that guy for trying to get the international community to help stop the attacks on his country, amirite?
Terrible week for Putin. Lost Kherson, lost the US midterms, very very sad, you hate to see it.
-k
Yes, when his trying means WWIII.
-
Yes, when his trying means WWIII.
If you were Ukraine, what would you do?
-
https://youtu.be/-8WY8AqJYTk
-
Must really bug you that Vlad's mighty army is getting its butt kicked by a country less than a third the size.
-
Must really bug you that Vlad's mighty army is getting its butt kicked by a country less than a third the size.
Not at all. I’m glad. I’m just not an advocate of WWIII and endless money to Ukraine. I also acknowledge some of the reasons why the war happened in the first place.
-
Not at all. I’m glad. I’m just not an advocate of WWIII and endless money to Ukraine. I also acknowledge some of the reasons why the war happened in the first place.
The war happened because Putin wants the old Russian empire back and didn't like not having a puppet in power in Ukraine.
-
Shiddy thinks the Russians went in to save the Ukrainians from Nazis!
-
The war happened because Putin wants the old Russian empire back and didn't like not having a puppet in power in Ukraine.
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border. After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup. But whatever.
-
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border. After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup. But whatever.
This is verbatim a Kremlin talking point. For the record, no such promise was ever made and NATO expansion happened because a number of countries requested membership to safeguard them from Russia.
-
For context:
To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.
https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east
Also, Obama's secretary of defence predicted in 2014 that Nato expansion would result in a war in Ukraine because Russia would see it as an existential threat. But nobody listened.
-
For context:
To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.
https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east
lol. lmao, even.
Russia and the West finally struck an agreement in September that would allow NATO to station its troops beyond the Iron Curtain. However, the deal only concerned a reunified Germany, with further eastward expansion being inconceivable at the time.
"The Soviet Union still existed and the countries of Eastern Europe were still part of the Soviet structures – like the Warsaw Pact – which was not officially dissolved until July 1991," said Amélie Zima, doctor of political science at the Thucydide Centre (Panthéon-Assas) in Paris. "We cannot speak of betrayal, because a chain of events that would rearrange the security configuration in Europe was about to take place."
In short, at a time when Westerners were offering the "guarantees" spoken of by Vladimir Putin, no one could have predicted the collapse of the USSR and the historic upheavals that followed.
"In addition, these promises were made orally and were never recorded in a treaty,” recalled Olivier Kempf, associate researcher at the Foundation for Strategic Research. "The turning point of NATO enlargement came much later, in 1995, at the request of the Eastern European countries."
That year, NATO published a study on its enlargement before starting membership talks two years later with Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic, all of which would become members in 1999. The addition of these new members has long sparked debate within NATO, thus undermining the Russian myth of a betrayal orchestrated by the West. "Even within the American administration, some thought that NATO should not expand because it would make it less effective, dilute its skills and become a financial burden," explained Zima.
I gotta say, "The mainstream media fooled me into supporting the Iraq war so I'm going to treat them with total skepticism while believing every word that comes out of a murderous dictator's mouth" is a very funny pivot.
-
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border. After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup. But whatever.
So you think that warrants what Russia is inflicting on the Ukrainian people.
-
Ukraine has banned Russian orthodox churches, and is now conducting raids among them. This is not a good look for them at all.
Ukraine Raids Holy Site Amid Suspicion of Orthodox Church Tied to Moscow
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/22/world/europe/ukraine-russia-monastery-caves.html
-
The pro-Putin faction of the Republican party is the scariest development. Shady should remind himself daily that he's an idiot who is easily manipulated with misinformation and then STFU.
-
But do you really think rooting out enemy agents in a Russian church after being invaded by Russia is "a bad look"? How stupid are you now?
-
But do you really think rooting out enemy agents in a Russian church after being invaded by Russia is "a bad look"? How stupid are you now?
I swear you’d defend Ukrainian internment camps for Russian citizens too. You literally have learned nothing over the past few decades. Not only that, but you defend it now! Utterly pathetic and disgusting.
-
At least the smart Republicans get paid well for carrying water for Putin. You do it for nothing.
-
At least the smart Republicans get paid well for carrying water for Putin. You do it for nothing.
Your schtick is old and repetitive. You can’t silence people with legitimate questions and concerns with your McCarthyistic tactics. Senator McCarthy would be quite proud of you for trying.
-
Silence? You're much too stupid for that.
-
McCarthy was a Republican.
-
McCarthy was a Republican.
Yep. And now it’s Democrats.
-
Yes, it's getting so you can't collude with the enemy without getting some critical online feedback. Have they no sense of decency?
-
Yes, it's getting so you can't collude with the enemy without getting some critical online feedback. Have they no sense of decency?
Nonsense. Wanting real oversight of Ukraine funding isn’t collusion with anyone. It’s funny to see you evolve into shills for big pharma and now the military industrial complex. Defence contractors love puppets like you.
-
You weren't talking about oversight. You were repeating the Putin talking point that Ukraine was attacking Russian churches.
-
You weren't talking about oversight. You were repeating the Putin talking point that Ukraine was attacking Russian churches.
They have. They also have actual nazis as part of their military. Those are facts. I’m sorry they bother you, but stating facts isn’t being pro-Putin, it’s being pro-truth.
-
They have. They also have actual nazis as part of their military. Those are facts. I’m sorry they bother you, but stating facts isn’t being pro-Putin, it’s being pro-truth.
Wait till you hear about the police and military literally everywhere else, it will blow your peanut-sized mind.
-
Wait till you hear about the police and military literally everywhere else, it will blow your peanut-sized mind.
And we allied with Stalin when we , like the Ukraine is now, were fighting for our survival. If Russia wins in the Ukraine, NATO will be next. That would be bad for everyone.
And, if Russia wins in the Ukraine, they will repeat the Holodomor.
-
Just remember, the same people calling anyone questioning anything about Ukraine funding, escalation, etc, are the exact same people that called anyone questioning Iraq unpatriotic. Except now, you’re a “Russian supporter.”
Some here haven’t learned anything from history.
[attachimg=1]
-
Just remember, the same people calling anyone questioning anything about Ukraine funding, escalation, etc, are the exact same people that called anyone questioning Iraq unpatriotic. Except now, you’re a “Russian supporter.”
Some here haven’t learned anything from history.
You uncritically parroted the right wing media's line on Iraq and now you're uncritically parroting the right wing media's line on Ukraine, so yeah I'd say some people here haven't really learned anything.
-
Just remember, the same people calling anyone questioning anything about Ukraine funding, escalation, etc, are the exact same people that called anyone questioning Iraq unpatriotic. Except now, you’re a “Russian supporter.”
Some here haven’t learned anything from history.
There is a huge difference between the conflict and the Iraq occupation. The US has not entered this war. They are pretty much doing the exact same thing they did between 1940-41, after the Nazis attacked France and the UK- providing intelligence, weapons, and financial support to the allies.
To me, it seems that the same people who defend Russia, are the same people that would have opposed North American intervention of World War II, and blamed the Jews for their fate.
-
They certainly aren't the same people who said questioning the Iraq war was unpatriotic. It's amazing how the Iraq war boosters are so ashamed of their former position, they're even trying to pretend it was all their political opponents' fault.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlN_JTmX0AEA_KF?format=jpg&name=large)
105,000+ casualties since February 24. To put that number in perspective, the United States lost 63,000 soldiers in Vietnam. Keep in mind American intervention started around 1960, and the last American soldiers left the country in 1975.
I honestly think the people who are defending Russia to the bitter end, are the same people who had great admiration for Russia as it was an example of a country that had no "woke culture." Russia was supposed to be this stronghold of alpha males, who didn't put up with special interest groups, and would annihilate anyone who tried to impose their view upon them. The Ukraine War has shattered that.
Even Andrew Tate, a self proclaimed "Alpha Male," who berated other men for having feelings toward women, could not handle a teenager insulting him.
-
Just remember, the same people calling anyone questioning anything about Ukraine funding, escalation, etc, are the exact same people that called anyone questioning Iraq unpatriotic. Except now, you’re a “Russian supporter.”
Some here haven’t learned anything from history.
(Attachment Link)
No, it's not the same people at all.
If you want to talk about the similarities, however, it's no mystery why the people parroting Kremlin propaganda over Ukraine are the same ones who railed against vaccine and mask mandates and still argue the election was stolen. When you're slurping your news from anonymous blogs and garbage-newsites, Yury and Ivan are always there to amplify and echo your anxieties.
-
No, it's not the same people at all.
If you want to talk about the similarities, however, it's no mystery why the people parroting Kremlin propaganda over Ukraine are the same ones who railed against vaccine and mask mandates and still argue the election was stolen. When you're slurping your news from anonymous blogs and garbage-newsites, Yury and Ivan are always there to amplify and echo your anxieties.
If the Kremlin says that the sky is blue, is that a “Kremlin talking point”? Are we to ignore truth because it sides with somebody we don’t like? Of course not. Stop being ridiculous.
-
No, but if you say something, you can bet you read it on a blog, likely of Russian influence, tailored to exploit your intellectual weakness and overly emotional anger.
-
No, but if you say something, you can bet you read it on a blog, likely of Russian influence, tailored to exploit your intellectual weakness and overly emotional anger.
Not really, I just listened to Obama’s secretary of defence, who predicted Russia’s invasion back in 2016. Because they view NATO expansion as an existential threat. They also viewed the west’s orchestrated coup of the pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014 the same way. Several things can be correct at the same time. Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. But NATO was wrong to threaten expansion to Russia’s border.
-
Not really, I just listened to Obama’s secretary of defence, who predicted Russia’s invasion back in 2016. Because they view NATO expansion as an existential threat. They also viewed the west’s orchestrated coup of the pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014 the same way. Several things can be correct at the same time. Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. But NATO was wrong to threaten expansion to Russia’s border.
1. Ukraine had no intention of joining NATO back in the 2014.
2. Russia violated an agreement from 1996, where Ukraine agreed to rid itself of all nuclear weapons, and give them to Russia, in return Russia promised to always respect Ukrainian sovereignty, and the post 1991 borders of Ukraine.
-
If the Kremlin says that the sky is blue, is that a “Kremlin talking point”? Are we to ignore truth because it sides with somebody we don’t like? Of course not. Stop being ridiculous.
Whatever you say, Tucker Carlson.
-
. But NATO was wrong to threaten expansion to Russia’s border.
Spoken like a true retard.
-
Spoken like a true retard.
Ditto. Especially one that has no clue of recent history. Your only option is to call people names! 😂
Everything I said is FACT. You’re all a bunch of McCarthyist puppets controlled by the mainstream media. They feed you the narrative, and you run with it like it’s religious dogma. You’ve learned nothing from the recent past.
-
Not really, I just listened to Obama’s secretary of defence, who predicted Russia’s invasion back in 2016. Because they view NATO expansion as an existential threat. They also viewed the west’s orchestrated coup of the pro Russian Ukrainian government in 2014 the same way. Several things can be correct at the same time. Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. But NATO was wrong to threaten expansion to Russia’s border.
Russia's neighbors joined NATO because they felt threatened by Russia. Russia's done nothing but validate their fears over the last 20 years. There is nothing existentially threatening about Ukraine wanting to free themselves of Russian influence given their truly horrible history under the Russian yoke and the utter hopelessness that subservience to Russia promises. The only thing that NATO expansion threatens existentially is Vladimir Putin's delusions of Empire. "Muh sphere of influence" is a shitty argument when nobody within it wants to be.
Ditto. Especially one that has no clue of recent history. Your only option is to call people names! 😂
Everything I said is FACT. You’re all a bunch of McCarthyist puppets controlled by the mainstream media. They feed you the narrative, and you run with it like it’s religious dogma. You’ve learned nothing from the recent past.
You don't actually know anything about Russian or Ukrainian history. This is very, very clear.
-
Glad to see Israel **** **** up in Iran with the drone strikes. It's Karma for getting involved in the Ukraine situation by providing Russia drones to strike cities in Ukraine.
-
Glad to see Israel **** **** up in Iran with the drone strikes. It's Karma for getting involved in the Ukraine situation by providing Russia drones to strike cities in Ukraine.
It’s good to see that world war 3 is well on its way! 😂
-
If Congresswoman Omar criticized Israel's attack you would call her anti-Semitic.
-
If Congresswoman Omar criticized Israel's attack you would call her anti-Semitic.
Yes, it’s interesting that you think people should have the right to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic. Why don’t you apply that same logic to Ukraine, or vaccines? Answer. Because you’re a hypocrite, McCarthyite. You only approve of nuance when it suits you, and when it supports your side. You have no interest in applying that same standard to anything else, even though everything else has nuance too.
-
You are free to praise Russia but don't pretend it isn't obvious you're just repeating Russian talking points, which have no nuance at all
-
You are free to praise Russia but don't pretend it isn't obvious you're just repeating Russian talking points, which have no nuance at all
Then you’re free to praise anti-semites.
-
You're the one praising MTG and her space laser theory. How come that "trope" is, as George Santos would signal, A-OK? 👌
-
You're the one praising MTG and her space laser theory. How come that "trope" is, as George Santos would signal, A-OK? 👌
I’m just using your standard. What’s wrong, you don’t like the taste of your own medicine? 😂
-
Are you clear in your mind what we're talking about? Your premise was that the Dems have a problem with anti-Semitism. Now that I've demonstrated that MTG's comments were way crazier and wrong and dangerous, you're trying to say you're just "using my standard"? Huh?
So the Dems aren't really anti-Semitic? They only are by "my standard"?
-
Are you clear in your mind what we're talking about?
You know the answer to this.
-
It’s good to see that world war 3 is well on its way! 😂
Russia can't even beat Ukraine, so let's not make hilarious jokes about them being able to fight WW3.
LET US HAVE OUR WAY OR WE NUKE EVERYONE isn't a compelling threat, or one any reasonable human being would entertain.
Of course, if you're parroting Kremlin talking points that you've pulled off the garbage-net, we can safely assume you haven't considered the logic behind these claims in the first place.
-
Russia can't even beat Ukraine, so let's not make hilarious jokes about them being able to fight WW3.
LET US HAVE OUR WAY OR WE NUKE EVERYONE isn't a compelling threat, or one any reasonable human being would entertain.
Of course, if you're parroting Kremlin talking points that you've pulled off the garbage-net, we can safely assume you haven't considered the logic behind these claims in the first place.
Has anyone seen the military capabilities of Poland? It's rumoured they are arguably stronger than Germany, and would be in position to defeat Russia outright. In the last few years, they ahve increased their military spending to 5% of GDP, which is even more than the US. They also have gone on a huge military spending spree in the past 5 years acquiring modern weapons from the USA and South Korea.
If Belarus attacks Ukraine, I think it should be grounds for Poland to enter the conflict, and destroy Belarus in 72 hours, then liberate the Ukraine.
-
Just between you and me...
I am a recovering MAGA.
The first step is admitting you have a problem.
Break free of the MAGA cult.
I believe in you.
Psssst. You’re still in a cult, you just don’t realize it.
-
Has anyone seen the military capabilities of Poland? It's rumoured they are arguably stronger than Germany, and would be in position to defeat Russia outright. In the last few years, they ahve increased their military spending to 5% of GDP, which is even more than the US. They also have gone on a huge military spending spree in the past 5 years acquiring modern weapons from the USA and South Korea.
I think if Poland wasn't part of NATO, they'd have already intervened in Ukraine.
If Belarus attacks Ukraine, I think it should be grounds for Poland to enter the conflict, and destroy Belarus in 72 hours, then liberate the Ukraine.
Belarus is an even bigger shithole than Russia, and their army is a joke. Them joining the war would be symbolic for Putin. They'd not be able to accomplish much of anything and they'd probably revolt if Lukashenko tried. He's only in power because Putin's army supports him. If he asked them to fight a war for Putin on top of that, I doubt it ends well.
-
Just in case anyone is still wondering why this war began in the first place. Here is one of the reasons. It doesn’t mean that Russia was right to invade. But denying some of the reasons why it happened is denying truth.
Russia’s got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html
-
Just in case anyone is still wondering why this war began in the first place. Here is one of the reasons. It doesn’t mean that Russia was right to invade. But denying some of the reasons why it happened is denying truth.
Russia’s got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says “No”
(https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/)
Western leaders never pledged not to enlarge NATO, a point that several analysts have demonstrated. Mark Kramer explored the question in detail in a 2009 article in The Washington Quarterly. He drew on declassified American, German and Soviet records to make his case and noted that, in discussions on German reunification in the two-plus-four format (the two Germanys plus the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France), the Soviets never raised the question of NATO enlargement other than how it might apply in the former German Democratic Republic (GDR).
...
Russia behind the Headlines has published an interview with Gorbachev, who was Soviet president during the discussions and treaty negotiations concerning German reunification. The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” [/quote]
There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’
(https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/)
When President George H.W. Bush sat down with Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev to negotiate the peaceful end of the Cold War and the reunification of Germany, former Under Secretary of State Robert Zoellick ’81 was in the room where it happened.
During the 1990 summit, Zoellick says President Gorbachev accepted the idea of German unification within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, based on the principle that every country should freely choose its own alliances.
“I was in those meetings, and Gorbachev has [also] said there was no promise not to enlarge NATO,” Zoellick recalls. Soviet Foreign Minister, Eduard Shevardnadze, later president of Georgia, concurred, he says. Nor does the treaty on Germany’s unification include a limit on NATO enlargement. Those facts have undermined one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s justifications for invading Ukraine — that the United States had agreed that former Warsaw Pact nations would never become part of the North Atlantic security alliance.
Even if there was such a promise made (and there was not) why would NATO be obligated to honour a commitment it made to a state that no longer exists?
-
“We signed a treaty with a King whose head is now in a basket.
Would you like to take it out and ask it?
‘Should we honour our treaty, King Louis’ head?’
‘Uh…do whatever you want. I’m super dead!’”
-
Any agreement should be in writing. It doesn't matter what anyone says. Robert Zoellick is a neocon piece of crap, he can't be believed. I believe nothing any of these politicians say without evidence.
Russia/Putin is not a good faith actor so NATO can do whatever it wants anyways. But did the Biden admin instigate the invasion? Sure. Would the US allow the Warsaw Pact on its doorstep, ie: Mexico? No. It tried a failed coup in Cuba & freaked out during the Cuban Missile Crisis and invaded Vietnam and countless other countries.
-
A country that chooses to live in freedom and democracy should be allowed to join NATO to protect that choice. Putin agreed with that 25 years ago.
-
Just in case anyone is still wondering why this war began in the first place. Here is one of the reasons. It doesn’t mean that Russia was right to invade. But denying some of the reasons why it happened is denying truth.
Russia’s got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html
1. That article is behind a paywall.
2. Ukraine and Russia signed off on a agreement in 1996, in which Ukraine would give all nuclear weapons they had, in exchage for the Russia promise that they would respect Ukrainian sovereignty, and not invade. They lied.
3. That is NATO, not Ukraine. Why should Ukraine suffer for some internal dispute between Russia and NATO.
No offence, but you sound like you do not have the best interests of North America in mind.
-
Any agreement should be in writing. It doesn't matter what anyone says. Robert Zoellick is a neocon piece of crap, he can't be believed. I believe nothing any of these politicians say without evidence.
Russia/Putin is not a good faith actor so NATO can do whatever it wants anyways. But did the Biden admin instigate the invasion? Sure. Would the US allow the Warsaw Pact on its doorstep, ie: Mexico? No. It tried a failed coup in Cuba & freaked out during the Cuban Missile Crisis and invaded Vietnam and countless other countries.
NATO should give Ukraine long range weapons that could hit Moscow. Putin is clearly bluffing, when he plays the "we got nukes" card. He knows that NATO would turn the whole country into dust, if Russia ever used nukes against an enemy..
Besides, I've lost track for the amount of times NATO has called Putin's bluff, and proceeds to arm the Ukraine regardless.
-
A country that chooses to live in freedom and democracy should be allowed to join NATO to protect that choice. Putin agreed with that 25 years ago.
Putin wants to annex much of eastern Ukraine. Ukraine being a NATO member would have made that much harder, so he invaded.
However, having NATO on your border is also a threat to Russian security interests. I think Putin half has a point and half is a conquering a-hole.
-
NATO should give Ukraine long range weapons that could hit Moscow. Putin is clearly bluffing, when he plays the "we got nukes" card. He knows that NATO would turn the whole country into dust, if Russia ever used nukes against an enemy..
Besides, I've lost track for the amount of times NATO has called Putin's bluff, and proceeds to arm the Ukraine regardless.
That would be like the USSR giving long-range missiles to Cuba that could hit Washington DC. DC didn't like that very much...
If US and Russia want peace then make the Russia border states politically neutral. No Russian or US/NATO political interference or security alliances. But that is much, much harder than it sounds. And Putin won't oblige.
Personally I think Russia should just give it a rest, relax, and join the rest of Europe in doing business and security and whatnot. I don't get the chapped anus Russia still maintains. Putin is still fighting the Cold War in his own mind. He's an idiot.
-
When all is said and done, and the full extent of the atrocities committed by the Russians is revealed to the World, people who are sympathetic to Russia are going to look really bad.
History will not be kind to Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
-
140,000 dead Russian soldiers. Most of the best in the military killed. Russia has not seen this amount of losses since the Blitzkrieg. Time for other countries to settle their beefs with Russia.
Looking at you, Poland.
-
Unfortunately this conflict is going to take a bad turn for Ukraine. This conflict is going to end up as a stalemate at best for them. But a protracted stalemate is a disaster for them. It’s time for America, NATO etc to start negotiating for some kind of peace agreement.
-
I guess Russia must have had a terrible week if the minions are saying Ukraine must surrender now.
-
I guess Russia must have had a terrible week if the minions are saying Ukraine must surrender now.
I’m not sure who’s saying surrender. But a peace deal is necessary. It must be so cozy for you to fight a war, and cheer for war on the couch in your living room.
-
It was your side that did the invading, not mine.
-
It was your side that did the invading, not mine.
My side did neither.
-
I’m not sure who’s saying surrender. But a peace deal is necessary. It must be so cozy for you to fight a war, and cheer for war on the couch in your living room.
Here's a peace deal:
Russia withdrawals from all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea.
Russia pays billions in reparations for all the damage they have done to civilian infrastructure.
Putin is indicted for War Crimes.
Anything short of that is pointless.
-
Here's a peace deal:
Russia withdrawals from all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea.
Russia pays billions in reparations for all the damage they have done to civilian infrastructure.
Putin is indicted for War Crimes.
Anything short of that is pointless.
#1 is a good start. Add to this the agreement that NATO not expand to include Ukraine and we’d probably stop the war tomorrow.
-
Unfortunately this conflict is going to take a bad turn for Ukraine. This conflict is going to end up as a stalemate at best for them. But a protracted stalemate is a disaster for them. It’s time for America, NATO etc to start negotiating for some kind of peace agreement.
No idea where you get this misinformation from, but according to ISW (International Study of War), and various military experts, Russia is completely depleted of experienced soldiers, and military weapons.
Russians are fighting for restoration of the Russian Empire. Ukraine is fighting for their lives. In 10 years that 5he USSR occupied Afghanistan, they only lost 15,000 soldiers. The Russian losses are not sustainable.
Morale is low, and they launched everything at Bakhmut, and it's pretty much a stalemate and meat grinder. Russia can't win this war. They have to pull out unconditionally, or risk another internal coup.
Shady, you really need to research this topic.
-
#1 is a good start. Add to this the agreement that NATO not expand to include Ukraine and we’d probably stop the war tomorrow.
Russia will be lucky if their enemies don't invade them. Imagine Poland getting involved? They would crush Belarus, then destroy Russia. Or how about China walking into Siberia and annexing it? Finland can even regain their lost territory from WW2.
Strike while the iron is hot...
-
No idea where you get this misinformation from, but according to ISW (International Study of War), and various military experts, Russia is completely depleted of experienced soldiers, and military weapons.
Russians are fighting for restoration of the Russian Empire. Ukraine is fighting for their lives. In 10 years that 5he USSR occupied Afghanistan, they only lost 15,000 soldiers. The Russian losses are not sustainable.
Morale is low, and they launched everything at Bakhmut, and it's pretty much a stalemate and meat grinder. Russia can't win this war. They have to pull out unconditionally, or risk another internal coup.
Shady, you really need to research this topic.
Very little of this is true. You need to stop getting all your information from legacy media sources. The spring is going to be a very rough time for Ukraine. And even after that, experts expect this conflict to drag on for years.
-
Russia will be lucky if their enemies don't invade them. Imagine Poland getting involved? They would crush Belarus, then destroy Russia. Or how about China walking into Siberia and annexing it? Finland can even regain their lost territory from WW2.
Strike while the iron is hot...
This kind of thought is irresponsible and with all due respect, completely insane. Invading a nuclear power, is a very bad idea. Especially if Putin is as crazy as people like you say he is.
-
#1 is a good start. Add to this the agreement that NATO not expand to include Ukraine and we’d probably stop the war tomorrow.
Not only is that stupid, naive BS, but it undermines the whole premise of NATO---that countries can join if they meet the conditions of being free democracies.
-
Very little of this is true. You need to stop getting all your information from legacy media sources. The spring is going to be a very rough time for Ukraine. And even after that, experts expect this conflict to drag on for years.
Sorry, I'll try to watch more Tucker Carlson😂
-
Very little of this is true. You need to stop getting all your information from legacy media sources. The spring is going to be a very rough time for Ukraine. And even after that, experts expect this conflict to drag on for years.
Are U.S. generals considered "legacy media" now? Are facebook memes really the only reliable source of information?
https://www.businessinsider.com/top-us-general-says-russia-has-lost-the-ukraine-war-2023-2
-
Are U.S. generals considered "legacy media" now? Are facebook memes really the only reliable source of information?
https://www.businessinsider.com/top-us-general-says-russia-has-lost-the-ukraine-war-2023-2
Yes, they kind of are considering legacy media hires generals, and CIA officials. Now they can push their propaganda directly to the people. Regardless, yes, these people have been saying that Russia lost the war for several months now. It’s weird how the war isn’t over though. You haven’t learned anything from the past have you?
-
He's not retired. He's the Joint Chiefs chairman. You are saying do not trust the West and its leadership and its free press. Instead, trust Putin's memes. And you think people might believe you aren't a little Putin minion...or at least someone far too stupid to realize they're being played?
-
He's not retired. He's the Joint Chiefs chairman. You are saying do not trust the West and its leadership and its free press. Instead, trust Putin's memes. And you think people might believe you aren't a little Putin minion...or at least someone far too stupid to realize they're being played?
I don’t trust Putin or him. You think the Joint Chiefs is going to give you a candid assessment? You seriously haven’t learned anything from history. Take the CIAs d**k out of your mouth, and take the Department of Defence’s d**k out of your mouth. Start looking at independent media.
-
I don’t trust Putin or him. You think the Joint Chiefs is going to give you a candid assessment? You seriously haven’t learned anything from history. Take the CIAs d**k out of your mouth, and take the Department of Defence’s d**k out of your mouth. Start looking at independent media.
I know I'm going to regret this, but what independent media?
-
I know I'm going to regret this, but what independent media?
It’s not even independent media. Even legacy media is reporting on the stalemate.
West must ramp up aid to Ukraine to keep war with Russia from becoming a stalemate, U.K. foreign secretary says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna66215
Breaking Points is a good source. They used to work for The Hill, which is basically a mainstream media outlet.
https://youtu.be/8TQRCN5CNy4
-
It’s not even independent media. Even legacy media is reporting on the stalemate.
West must ramp up aid to Ukraine to keep war with Russia from becoming a stalemate, U.K. foreign secretary says
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna66215
Breaking Points is a good source. They used to work for The Hill, which is basically a mainstream media outlet.
Ah, you mean mainstream media. That's a relief. I thought you were going to suggest Tucker Carlson.
-
The credible MSM with journalistic integrity that says things he wants to hear. Not the lying Fake News legacy media that says things he doesn't want to hear.
It's kind of like how the ballots that elected Biden were fake but the same ballots that elected Republican governors were fine.
-
On a positive note, Canada has approved 540,000 Ukrainians to enter Canada, and roughly 1/3 of them have already come to Canada (160,000).
-
Ah, you mean mainstream media. That's a relief. I thought you were going to suggest Tucker Carlson.
Sometimes it’s good to hear both sides of an issue. Listen to your usual CNN sources and then listen to Tucker once in a while, especially on Ukraine. It’s always good to hear both sides of all issues. I’ve learned that over the last several years. See weapons of mass destruction/Iraq. Imagine if everyone back 20 years ago was told they were carrying water for Saddam Hussein whenever they had questions about the military’s assertions of WMD, and the mainstream media’s assertions of WMD. Well, that’s what it’s like today. And it’s not just Ukraine. It’s basically everything. You can’t question anything anymore for some reason. You can’t ask questions of Ukraine. You can’t ask questions of covid. You can’t ask questions of vaccines. You can’t ask questions of mandates. You can’t ask questions of climate change. You can’t ask questions of immigration. We’re all suppose to be a big group of sheep, all thinking the same thing. Nobody is “allowed” to drift from the established narratives. It didn’t use to be like that.
-
Ukraine’s black listing prominent Americans who haven’t towed the popular narrative. Could be a policy adopted from right out of this forum! 😂
https://youtu.be/yoIZD8Ebjxs
-
Sometimes it’s good to hear both sides of an issue. Listen to your usual CNN sources and then listen to Tucker once in a while, especially on Ukraine. It’s always good to hear both sides of all issues. I’ve learned that over the last several years. See weapons of mass destruction/Iraq. Imagine if everyone back 20 years ago was told they were carrying water for Saddam Hussein whenever they had questions about the military’s assertions of WMD, and the mainstream media’s assertions of WMD. Well, that’s what it’s like today. And it’s not just Ukraine. It’s basically everything. You can’t question anything anymore for some reason. You can’t ask questions of Ukraine. You can’t ask questions of covid. You can’t ask questions of vaccines. You can’t ask questions of mandates. You can’t ask questions of climate change. You can’t ask questions of immigration. We’re all suppose to be a big group of sheep, all thinking the same thing. Nobody is “allowed” to drift from the established narratives. It didn’t use to be like that.
CNN is biased. Tucker Carlson is nuts.
Who says you can't ask questions?
-
Sometimes it’s good to hear both sides of an issue. Listen to your usual CNN sources and then listen to Tucker once in a while, especially on Ukraine. It’s always good to hear both sides of all issues.
CNN may not be perfect,but Tucker Carlson is an absolute moron. If this was 1941, I have no doubt that Tucker would be rooting for Nazi Germany, and blaming the Jews for the war.
Well, that’s what it’s like today. And it’s not just Ukraine. It’s basically everything. You can’t question anything anymore for some reason. You can’t ask questions of Ukraine. You can’t ask questions of covid. You can’t ask questions of vaccines. You can’t ask questions of mandates. You can’t ask questions of climate change. You can’t ask questions of immigration. We’re all suppose to be a big group of sheep, all thinking the same thing. Nobody is “allowed” to drift from the established narratives. It didn’t use to be like that.
People are questioning MSM like never before. I certainly would not want to be a reporter for a legitimate madia source today, as the harassment and intimidation they face is off the charts. Now we have news outlets like OANN, Fox, Rebel, and Western Standard deliberate spreading misinformation to dupe uneducated people. Climate change is real, this has been proven for 50 years. There will always be people against immigration, but the far right amplifies the hatred towards these marginalised people. They vilify legitimate medical professionals to the poin where they receive death threats.
Implying that North America is moving to communism, or whatever, has been done to death. What did McCarthyism do for us? People are just paranoid, and alternative news is hell bent on creating division and fear among us, in the name of ratings.
-
Ukraine’s black listing prominent Americans who haven’t towed the popular narrative. Could be a policy adopted from right out of this forum! 😂
https://youtu.be/yoIZD8Ebjxs
Can you please not post garbage on the site? Glenn Greenwald? Seriously Slim. The guy is literally best friends with Michael Tracey. Nobody considers him reliable.
What's next? Taking military advice from Douglas MacGregor....lol
-
/Iraq. Imagine if everyone back 20 years ago was told they were carrying water for Saddam Hussein whenever they had questions about the military’s assertions of WMD, and the mainstream media’s assertions of WMD.
You did that. You also said we were betraying the troops you guys were gung-ho about sending into battle. Your memory is as terrible as your reading comprehension. You were cheerleading the aggressors then and you're cheerleading the aggressors now. One day, maybe try not cheering for the side that is bombing children's bedrooms.
-
But speaking of Tucker and his "other side of the story", how would you feel if, say, a voting machine company forced him to give up his texts in discovery and they revealed that Fox lied to you, Fox knew they were lying to you, and they thought you were gullible enough to believe the lies?
Tucker: "Sidney Powell is lying, by the way. I caught her. It's insane."
Ingraham: "Sidney is a complete nut. No one will work with her. Ditto with Rudy."
Tucker: "Our viewers are good people and they believe it."
-
Ukraine’s black listing prominent Americans who haven’t towed the popular narrative. Could be a policy adopted from right out of this forum! 😂
You mean Ukraine, which has been brutally invaded an is at war, doesn't facilitate enemy agents spewing their lying propaganda? What a shock!
-
Last time the Tucker Carlson and MTG types suddenly started talking about how we needed to stop the war, it coincided with the Ukrainian counteroffensive blitzing into the regions that Putin had just declared annexed. If the usual suspects have once again started campaigning for peace, it makes me suspect that something is about to go really badly for Russia. Fingers crossed!
-k
-
Sometimes it’s good to hear both sides of an issue. Listen to your usual CNN sources and then listen to Tucker once in a while, especially on Ukraine. It’s always good to hear both sides of all issues. I’ve learned that over the last several years. See weapons of mass destruction/Iraq. Imagine if everyone back 20 years ago was told they were carrying water for Saddam Hussein whenever they had questions about the military’s assertions of WMD, and the mainstream media’s assertions of WMD. Well, that’s what it’s like today.
That's exactly what happened back then, you dumbass. You should know because you were one of the people doing that.
And it’s not just Ukraine. It’s basically everything. You can’t question anything anymore for some reason. You can’t ask questions of Ukraine. You can’t ask questions of covid. You can’t ask questions of vaccines. You can’t ask questions of mandates. You can’t ask questions of climate change. You can’t ask questions of immigration. We’re all suppose to be a big group of sheep, all thinking the same thing.
If you "can't ask questions" then why don't you and those lke you ever shut up? Why are we bombarded with so much disinformation and fake news? The idea that "you can't ask questions" today when there are more communications channels for freakshows like you to spread conspiracy nonsense is fuckin laughable.
Nobody is “allowed” to drift from the established narratives. It didn’t use to be like that.
Do you have, like, Alzheimers?
-
Here's a peace deal:
Russia withdrawals from all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea.
Russia pays billions in reparations for all the damage they have done to civilian infrastructure.
Putin is indicted for War Crimes.
Anything short of that is pointless.
Mass graves have been found in the reclaimed regions. Torture sites have been found. Ukrainian civilian neighborhoods have been deliberately targeted with missiles. **** has been used as a weapon by Russian forces against Ukrainian civilians. There are a lot of Russian military people who need to be taken out behind the barracks for a bullet in the back of the cranium.
-k
-
Mass graves have been found in the reclaimed regions. Torture sites have been found. Ukrainian civilian neighborhoods have been deliberately targeted with missiles. **** has been used as a weapon by Russian forces against Ukrainian civilians. There are a lot of Russian military people who need to be taken out behind the barracks for a bullet in the back of the cranium.
-k
The Ukrainians are doing just that, as well as to fellow Ukrainians who they think collaborated with the Russkis.
-
Just a reminder, but pre-war, Ukraine was listed as one of the most corrupt countries in the world, with actual nazis making up part of their ranks. Let me guess though, there’s very fine people that are part of Ukraine, right?
Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Literally Hitler youth type camps for children.
https://youtu.be/CpV16BQfbrQ
-
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
It’s probably one of the reasons why so many American donated weapons are ending up in places like Africa.
-
Just a reminder, but pre-war, Ukraine was listed as one of the most corrupt countries in the world, with actual nazis making up part of their ranks. Let me guess though, there’s very fine people that are part of Ukraine, right?
Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY
Literally Hitler youth type camps for children.
https://youtu.be/CpV16BQfbrQ
Not literally Hitler youth camps for children.
Regardless, this was from 2015, 4 years before Zelensky the Jew was elected with a mandate to fight corruption in Ukraine. Whatever you want to say about corruption in Ukraine, you can also say about Russia, with Putin the world's most successful crime boss. That doesn't matter to you though, does it? Cheering for dictatorships is how you show everyone how much you care about freedom.
-
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
It’s probably one of the reasons why so many American donated weapons are ending up in places like Africa.
Stop repeating pro-Putin propaganda.
Ukraine is kind of a craphole, but who cares.
-
...so many American donated weapons are ending up in places like Africa.
cite - sure you can!
-
The media used to be allowed to tell the truth about Ukraine.
[attachimg=1]
-
cite - sure you can!
It’s amazing that you guys are so uninterested and incurious. The mainstream media also shares those values.
Preventing US weapons from escaping Ukraine is a challenge
The president of Nigeria, for instance, is warning that weapons from Ukraine are ending up in Nigeria. Moreover, Finnish media previously reported that criminal organizations could be trafficking weapons from Ukraine — including U.S. weapons — into European Union countries.
https://thehill.com/opinion/congress-blog/3766309-preventing-us-weapons-from-escaping-ukraine-is-a-challenge/amp/
-
How come you always read "could be" as "are", except when you don't want to?
https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-buhari-claim-ukraine-war-feeds-arms-to-west-africa/6863147.html
-
How come you always read "could be" as "are", except when you don't want to?
https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-buhari-claim-ukraine-war-feeds-arms-to-west-africa/6863147.html
What the eff is polygraph info? But yeah, he’s making it all up, for the obvious reason of, um, oh wait, he gets absolutely nothing out of making it up. Do you not trust him because he’s Black? Why do you trust the word of other leaders without any “proof” when it comes to other issues? Why do you automatically dismiss this possibly?
-
I dismissed nothing. I just pointed out your double standard on information verification. if it's something you want to be true, you always report it as fact, even though it hasn't been verified. If it's something you don't want to be true, you wail about "innocent until proven guilty" and "fascist authoritarian police states." 😂
-
What the eff is polygraph info? But yeah, he’s making it all up, for the obvious reason of, um, oh wait, he gets absolutely nothing out of making it up. Do you not trust him because he’s Black? Why do you trust the word of other leaders without any “proof” when it comes to other issues? Why do you automatically dismiss this possibly?
Because you can talk about anything as a possibility if you want. Nobody can prove it's not happening, so I can just as easily talk about the possibility that you're being paid by Russian troll farms to spread this sort of garbage. This is how dumb conspiracy theories spread everywhere. Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson talk about things that could be happening, repeat it and talk about it all over the place, and pretty soon all of the conspiracy donkeys are talking about it as a widely-known fact.
The illusory truth effect, also known as the illusion of truth, describes how, when we hear the same false information repeated again and again, we often come to believe it is true. Troublingly, this even happens when people should know better—that is, when people initially know that the misinformation is false.
https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/illusory-truth-effect
-
Heckuva job guys! So how badly do you want Ukraine? Bad enough to initiate nuclear war?
Putin suspends last nuclear treaty with U.S., puts new missiles on combat duty
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/putin-suspends-last-nuclear-treaty-with-u-s-puts-new-missiles-on-combat-duty/wcm/e8ef33c8-4a8b-4619-9108-1d03083b742b/amp/
-
Heckuva job guys! So how badly do you want Ukraine? Bad enough to initiate nuclear war?
Putin suspends last nuclear treaty with U.S., puts new missiles on combat duty
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/putin-suspends-last-nuclear-treaty-with-u-s-puts-new-missiles-on-combat-duty/wcm/e8ef33c8-4a8b-4619-9108-1d03083b742b/amp/
Hitler invades Poland. Should just give him what he wants.
Why do we continue, as a species, to let complete arseholes get their own way?
I would support the creation of an elite assassination squad. I would contribute to the GoFundMe page.
-
Hitler invades Poland. Should just give him what he wants.
Why do we continue, as a species, to let complete arseholes get their own way?
I would support the creation of an elite assassination squad. I would contribute to the GoFundMe page.
Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons. Regardless, I agree with the assassination squad.
-
Hitler didn’t have nuclear weapons. Regardless, I agree with the assassination squad.
Biden has nuclear weapons. Would you support his invasion of Canada to prevent a CPC win in the next election so Trudeau could impose an even higher carbon tax and give all the land back to the natives?
-
Biden has nuclear weapons. Would you support his invasion of Canada to prevent a CPC win in the next election so Trudeau could impose an even higher carbon tax and give all the land back to the natives?
No I wouldn’t. But I think you’re missing the point.
-
No I wouldn’t. But I think you’re missing the point.
I'm not. You did.
The point is, how far do you bend based on a potential?
If the choice was an increase in carbon tax or nuclear annihilation, I'll go with the increase. But it's not. The choice is, how much do you give up based on what might happen.
Putin has nuclear weapons. He might use them. The choice is, how far do you allow him to go based on that possibility.
-
I'm not. You did.
The point is, how far do you bend based on a potential?
If the choice was an increase in carbon tax or nuclear annihilation, I'll go with the increase. But it's not. The choice is, how much do you give up based on what might happen.
Putin has nuclear weapons. He might use them. The choice is, how far do you allow him to go based on that possibility.
That’s definitely the question, how far do we let him go? I don’t know, but to me, Ukraine isn’t worth nuclear war over. I get sending defensive weapons, but the escalation of sending tanks and longer range missiles is risky. Especially if Putin is as unstable as we think he is.
-
That’s definitely the question, how far do we let him go? I don’t know, but to me, Ukraine isn’t worth nuclear war over. I get sending defensive weapons, but the escalation of sending tanks and longer range missiles is risky. Especially if Putin is as unstable as we think he is.
If you allow Putin to get away with nuclear blackmail, he won't hesitate to use to get whatever he wants in future. If you don't give Ukraine the means to push the Russians back into Russia, you are just prolonging the bloodshed. The West needs to make up its mind.
-
If you allow Putin to get away with nuclear blackmail, he won't hesitate to use to get whatever he wants in future. If you don't give Ukraine the means to push the Russians back into Russia, you are just prolonging the bloodshed. The West needs to make up its mind.
I mostly agree, but from what I’ve read, Putin’s very unstable. How do you know it’s just blackmail? How do you know he’s not serious? Are you willing to risk that over Ukraine? Why weren’t we willing to risk it over Crimea? Don’t you think that if we’re going to risk something like that, it should be a NATO country at the very least?
-
You obviously don't remember saying Iranian leadership was psycho and that was a reason not to appease them, calling anyone who did a "Neville Chamberlain." It's been a while. What changed?
-
I mostly agree, but from what I’ve read, Putin’s very unstable. How do you know it’s just blackmail? How do you know he’s not serious? Are you willing to risk that over Ukraine? Why weren’t we willing to risk it over Crimea? Don’t you think that if we’re going to risk something like that, it should be a NATO country at the very least?
You are reacting exactly the way Putin would want you to. At what point will you call his bluff or will you just continue to give him what he wants whenever he talks about nukes? Will you throw the NATO treaty in the bin if he goes after a NATO country and threatens to use nukes? Where is your line or do you even have one because making him bolder isn't a strategy.
-
I mostly agree, but from what I’ve read, Putin’s very unstable. How do you know it’s just blackmail? How do you know he’s not serious? Are you willing to risk that over Ukraine? Why weren’t we willing to risk it over Crimea? Don’t you think that if we’re going to risk something like that, it should be a NATO country at the very least?
Putin can try what he wants. Getting others on board to deploy nuclear weapons may prove impossible, considering do to so would invite retaliation by the West, not seen in the history of Russia.
Hitler gave orders in the final months of his life to raze every landmark, and significant building in Germany in order to leave the Allied forces nothing but a wasteland of rubble. His generals outright refused.
-
That’s definitely the question, how far do we let him go? I don’t know, but to me, Ukraine isn’t worth nuclear war over. I get sending defensive weapons, but the escalation of sending tanks and longer range missiles is risky. Especially if Putin is as unstable as we think he is.
Ukraine isn't worth a nuclear war. Correct. That's why Russia won't use nuclear weapons.
Nuclear threats are useful as a deterrent, not as blackmail. Russia invaded Ukraine, and threatening to launch nukes because the rest of the world is helping them resist and take back their territory cannot be tolerated. You literally couldn't make a better case for nuclear proliferation and escalation than showing shithole dictatorships like South Korea or Iran that they can take what they please because they threatened to use nukes.
That's just dumb.
-
Ukraine isn't worth a nuclear war. Correct. That's why Russia won't use nuclear weapons.
Nuclear threats are useful as a deterrent, not as blackmail. Russia invaded Ukraine, and threatening to launch nukes because the rest of the world is helping them resist and take back their territory cannot be tolerated. You literally couldn't make a better case for nuclear proliferation and escalation than showing shithole dictatorships like South Korea or Iran that they can take what they please because they threatened to use nukes.
That's just dumb.
I didn’t say they could take what they please. I’m all for sending defensive weapons to Ukraine. I don’t support escalating the crisis with offensive weapons like tanks and longer range missiles. But I’m confused, how do you know Putin won’t use nuclear weapons? I thought he was crazy? Everyday is literally the Cuban missile crisis, and everybody seems just fine with it. Over a country that doesn’t even belong to NATO. If you’re so brave, why don’t we accept Taiwan into NATO too? After all, using your logic, it would benefit them with a deterrent and protection right?
-
NATO is as f** king crazy as Putin is. Yes, this is real.
[attachimg=1]
-
See the quotation marks? That means it's a quote from somewhere else. Where is it from? An article written by a Ukrainian soldier. Madness!
https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2023/02/16/a-year-ago-i-volunteered-as-a-soldier-in-the-ukrainian-army/index.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=230223%2Bnr%2Bpavlo%2Bthread
-
See the quotation marks? That means it's a quote from somewhere else. Where is it from? An article written by a Ukrainian soldier. Madness!
https://www.nato.int/docu/review/articles/2023/02/16/a-year-ago-i-volunteered-as-a-soldier-in-the-ukrainian-army/index.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=smc&utm_campaign=230223%2Bnr%2Bpavlo%2Bthread
How does that make it any better? So you're saying that Nato is tweeting random soldier's quote referencing Harry Potter, etc? Do you agree with Nato that Ukraine is hosting one of the greatest "epics" of this century?
-
Uh huh. So what? Can you explain why you're so upset?
-
Uh huh. So what? Can you explain why you're so upset?
Maybe an adult will explain to you why this isn't a good look for NATO. Nothing is epic about war. And tweeting about fantasy movies, etc is beyond absurd.
-
Maybe an adult will explain to you why this isn't a good look for NATO. Nothing is epic about war. And tweeting about fantasy movies, etc is beyond absurd.
You are wrong about it not being epic, it's about as David and Goliath as it gets.
-
Maybe an adult will explain to you why this isn't a good look for NATO. Nothing is epic about war. And tweeting about fantasy movies, etc is beyond absurd.
*stares in Arctinus of Miletus*
-
Give him a break. He only knows the grade 4 slang definition of epic (i.e., cool!).
-
Give him a break. He only knows the grade 4 slang definition of epic (i.e., cool!).
Hey, maybe NATO will post something about Narnia too! 😂
Maybe they’ll do some Tik Tok’s of how epic the war is! 🤡
-
Hey, maybe NATO will post something about Narnia too! 😂
Maybe they’ll do some Tik Tok’s of how epic the war is! 🤡
Have you looked up "epic" yet?
-
Have you looked up "epic" yet?
You chicken hawks sure talk a big game.
-
Your side is the one that did the invading.
-
Your side is the one that did the invading.
My side is sanity.
-
Letting Putin win would be insane.
-
Letting Putin win would be insane.
The choice isn’t between letting Putin win and escalating to potentially nuclear war. Putin can be defeated with defensive weapons. Tanks and longer range missiles are not necessary and will only escalate the conflict. We need to use more logic and less emotion when navigating this crisis.
-
Alternately, they are ending this crisis by causing Russia to lose, and this is why you object.
-
The choice isn’t between letting Putin win and escalating to potentially nuclear war. Putin can be defeated with defensive weapons. Tanks and longer range missiles are not necessary and will only escalate the conflict. We need to use more logic and less emotion when navigating this crisis.
How? The idea that sitting back on the defensive while Russia continues to pour manpower and other resources into the fight is like trying to fix a pipe leak by sticking a bucket under it. All you're doing is prolonging the conflict and incurring more losses through attrition. The only way to force them to consider negotiations is to defeat them on the battlefield. Tanks would enable Ukraine to actually push Russia back. Jets would help them contest the sky over their own territory and longer range missiles would enable them to hit targets behind the front, disrupting the enemy supply lines, artillery, troop concentrations, etc. Playing rope-a-dope is great for wearing the other guy down, but you can't win a fight that way; you have to punch back.
-
Ukraine isn't worth a nuclear war. Correct. That's why Russia won't use nuclear weapons.
Nuclear threats are useful as a deterrent, not as blackmail. Russia invaded Ukraine, and threatening to launch nukes because the rest of the world is helping them resist and take back their territory cannot be tolerated. You literally couldn't make a better case for nuclear proliferation and escalation than showing shithole dictatorships like South Korea or Iran that they can take what they please because they threatened to use nukes.
That's just dumb.
We also have to keep in mind that if a nuclear war does occur, Russia would lose. Lose bad- as in having every single city of over 1,000,000 Russians wiped off the map. It's not going to happen. Even if Putin gives orders to use nukes, his military generals are far more likely to take him out, since they realise the horrific consequences of that act.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpuWYAwXEAI642m?format=jpg)
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpuWYAwXEAI642m?format=jpg)
I would pay much attention to anything Russia says in regards to casualties for or against, or Ukraine. It’s all propaganda.
-
We also have to keep in mind that if a nuclear war does occur, Russia would lose. Lose bad- as in having every single city of over 1,000,000 Russians wiped off the map. It's not going to happen. Even if Putin gives orders to use nukes, his military generals are far more likely to take him out, since they realise the horrific consequences of that act.
Who’s doing that? NATO? So you’re fine with starting a nuclear war over a conflict involving no NATO countries? This is insanity. Btw, if that happens, the west sees all of its cities wiped off the map, and the whole world loses. You need professional help.
-
You need professional help.
waldo point of clarification: in the context of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, to-date, nuclear implies tactical... not strategic nuclear; i.e., battlefield weapons with significantly less fallout and yield than strategic nuclear weapons. Of course, once the 'genie' is out of the bottle...
-
waldo point of clarification: in the context of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, to-date, nuclear implies tactical... not strategic nuclear; i.e., battlefield weapons with significantly less fallout and yield than strategic nuclear weapons. Of course, once the 'genie' is out of the bottle...
I agree that there is a difference between strategic/tactical. However, it’s still a terrible outcome either way. At least Biden has shown some sensibility and restraint, as he’s still refusing to send F16s to Ukraine.
-
Who’s doing that? NATO? So you’re fine with starting a nuclear war over a conflict involving no NATO countries? This is insanity. Btw, if that happens, the west sees all of its cities wiped off the map, and the whole world loses. You need professional help.
The only one threatening to use nukes is Putin.
-
I would pay much attention to anything Russia says in regards to casualties for or against, or Ukraine. It’s all propaganda.
Ironically, the Norwegian, UK, and others are reporting higher amounts of Russian casualties.
-
Who’s doing that? NATO? So you’re fine with starting a nuclear war over a conflict involving no NATO countries? This is insanity. Btw, if that happens, the west sees all of its cities wiped off the map, and the whole world loses. You need professional help.
1. Russia has been threatening to use nuclear weapons for months.
2. I'm definitely not fine with starting a nuclear war. Whatever gave you that idea? What I said was Russia is bluffing. However, if Russia did use nuclear weapons against a NATO member, the retaliation would be so devastating that Russia would essentially cease to exist. This is why I do not believe Putin would ever deploy nukes.
3. You may want to practice reading comprehension, before suggesting others need "Professional help."
-
I agree that there is a difference between strategic/tactical. However, it’s still a terrible outcome either way. At least Biden has shown some sensibility and restraint, as he’s still refusing to send F16s to Ukraine.
I would not mind at all if Ukraine acquired F-16's. Russia is not going to use nuclear weapons. Why not just call Putin's bluff, and arm Ukraine to the hilt?
-
(https://gdb.rferl.org/01000000-0aff-0242-a254-08db1560d4bf_cx0_cy14_cw0_w1597_n_r1_st_s.jpg)
Dozens Of Coffins Stacked In Novosibirsk Airport Hint At Soaring Russian Losses In Ukraine
"Young men from Russia’s hinterlands, including Buryatia, an impoverished Russian region in Siberia with a significant ethnic Buryat population, have borne the brunt of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, launched just a year ago on February 24, 2022, dying in disproportionate numbers compared to other areas of the country, especially in and around the richer capital, Moscow, and St. Petersburg.
The purported Novosibirsk video has emerged as numerous reports indicate that Russian losses in Ukraine have risen dramatically in recent weeks. The BBC Russian Service reported earlier this month that, during the first two weeks of February, the number of Russians killed in the war in Ukraine was five times higher compared to the previous month.
Citing senior U.S. officials, The New York Times reported on February 2 that fighting around Bakhmut had caused Russian casualty figures to spike."
-
I didn’t say they could take what they please. I’m all for sending defensive weapons to Ukraine. I don’t support escalating the crisis with offensive weapons like tanks and longer range missiles.
There's really no such thing as "defensive weapons". They're all meant to kill your opponents. You can't defend yourself if you can't strike back at your enemy, so if Ukraine has nothing but Javelins and NLAWS and short-ranged artillery, they can never do anything but react to Russian attacks. They'd never have the initiative, and never be able to strike where Russia is weak or when it's making a mistake. That's an assured war-losing strategy.
But I’m confused, how do you know Putin won’t use nuclear weapons? I thought he was crazy? Everyday is literally the Cuban missile crisis, and everybody seems just fine with it. Over a country that doesn’t even belong to NATO. If you’re so brave, why don’t we accept Taiwan into NATO too? After all, using your logic, it would benefit them with a deterrent and protection right?
I don't think Putin's crazy. I think he's a horrible, narcissistic cretin. He won't use nukes because it gains him nothing. Even if he did want to press the red button out of spite, it's unlikely the Russian military establishment (all with their families) are interested in armageddon for the sake of one man's thwarted ambitions.
NATO was formed as a check against the USSR (and now Russia). There are other alliances and security arrangements/agreements in the Pacific. Taiwan isn't going to be accepted for the same reason that Australia, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea aren't.
-
[attachimg=1]
-
(Attachment Link)
The MSM is far from perfect, but after witnessing the "independent journalists" like Rebel News, InfoWars, and Tucker Carlson, and all the misinformation they being to the plate, the alternative is far more damaging.
-
(Attachment Link)
At least shady doesn't try to pretend he isn't on Russia's side anymore.
-
Also, at least MJT doesn't try to pretend she isn't on Russia's side anymore.
https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1630659109283590144?s=20
-
(Attachment Link)
You believe in the COVID lab leak theory because the FBI said so.
-
At least shady doesn't try to pretend he isn't on Russia's side anymore.
I’m on the side of the truth. You haven’t learned anything over the past 10-20 years. You’re a stenographer for the CIA, FBI, and the rich and powerful. You’re a good brown shirt.
-
I’m on the side of the truth. You haven’t learned anything over the past 10-20 years. You’re a stenographer for the CIA, FBI, and the rich and powerful. You’re a good brown shirt.
(https://i.imgflip.com/7cxlk6.jpg)
-
Zelensky pushing some works class propaganda. Now trying to scare the American public into supporting even more money for his war. What a disgusting pig.
[attachimg=1]
-
What a disgusting pig.
It's funny when you try to pretend you weren't on Russia's side. It's like you think others are as gullible as you.
-
It's funny when you try to pretend you weren't on Russia's side. It's like you think others are as gullible as you.
It’s funny what all you’ve got is McCarthyism. You’re a mouthpiece for the CIA and the military industrial complex.
-
Zelensky pushing some works class propaganda. Now trying to scare the American public into supporting even more money for his war. What a disgusting pig.
(Attachment Link)
Whatever you say, Tucker Carlson.
-
Whatever you say, Tucker Carlson.
As hominem attacks don’t negate facts. Zelensky behaves like an entitled tin pot dictator.
-
It’s funny what all you’ve got is McCarthyism. You’re a mouthpiece for the CIA and the military industrial complex.
But you're just a Putin b!tch who's ever even been laid. It's not like your opinion is respectes...by anyone.
-
As hominem attacks don’t negate facts. Zelensky behaves like an entitled tin pot dictator.
By seeking help to defend his country from invasion? You're just caught up in the Russian memes and getting emotionally manipulated because you have the intelligence of an 8 year old.
-
As hominem attacks don’t negate facts. Zelensky behaves like an entitled tin pot dictator.
Zelenskyy's country is fighting for its life and he will do anything to protect it, as he should. This isn't a **** game for the Ukrainian people. I'm amazed you can't understand something so fundamental.
-
But you're just a Putin b!tch who's ever even been laid. It's not like your opinion is respectes...by anyone.
More sad McCarthyism and ad hominem attacks. Which doesn’t refute Zelensky’s pathetic behaviour.
-
Zelenskyy's country is fighting for its life and he will do anything to protect it, as he should. This isn't a **** game for the Ukrainian people. I'm amazed you can't understand something so fundamental.
Trying to scare the American public with what is essentially propaganda is abhorrent.
-
Trying to scare the American public with what is essentially propaganda is abhorrent.
Shady swears Putin will stop at Ukraine and won't go any further. He gives his word
-
Trying to scare the American public with what is essentially propaganda is abhorrent.
You think Russia is playing fair for craps sake? This is some kind of friendly match with rules? Zelenskyy will do whatever he has too to save his country. This isn't a bloody game.
If you want go talk about abhorrent, just look to your hero Vlad.
-
Shady you've been Russian propaganda"d up the anus by Putin.
Take a shower and clean out your anus.
-
Trying to scare the American public with what is essentially propaganda is abhorrent.
he says, while echoing limp threats from the Kremlin over eScALaTiON and nuclear war. ::)
-
he says, while echoing limp threats from the Kremlin over eScALaTiON and nuclear war. ::)
I was told that Putin is crazy, from all the pro-war posters in the forum. Was that just more propaganda. I was also told that Putin was dying.
-
Your side is the pro-war one, having started the war and all.
-
Your side is the pro-war one, having started the war and all.
I didn’t start anything. This war has its beginnings years ago. Even Obama’s former secretary of defence acknowledged that fact back in 2014 and predicted it. But you neocons never listen, and never learn.
-
Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine
-
You've forsaken your formerly ardent defence of neoconservativism to the point you now consider it to be radically far left?
That should last until the GOP nominates another neoconservative. 🤣
-
You've forsaken your formerly ardent defence of neoconservativism to the point you now consider it to be radically far left?
That should last until the GOP nominates another neoconservative. 🤣
You haven’t learned anything over the last 10-20 years.
-
I was against the side doing the invading 20 years ago and I still am.
You were on the side of the invaders 20 years ago and you still are
-
You haven’t learned anything over the last 10-20 years.
You went from uncritically believing right wing propaganda then to uncritically believing right wing propaganda now.
-
I was against the side doing the invading 20 years ago and I still am.
You were on the side of the invaders 20 years ago and you still are
I’m not on any side. I recognize and support Ukraine’s right to defend itself. I also support sending defensive weapons. But I also recognize why this war is taking place in the first place. And I’ve learned to take with a grain of salt the propaganda pumped to the masses by the mainstream media and the CIA etc. Unfortunately, you drink it down like Kool aid. You haven’t learned a thing. Hopefully at some point you will.
-
I’m not on any side. I recognize and support Ukraine’s right to defend itself. I also support sending defensive weapons. But I also recognize why this war is taking place in the first place. And I’ve learned to take with a grain of salt the propaganda pumped to the masses by the mainstream media and the CIA etc. Unfortunately, you drink it down like Kool aid. You haven’t learned a thing. Hopefully at some point you will.
Unless it's about the lab leak theory lol.
-
Also funny that the "I don't believe government propaganda" guy is out here swallowing Russian government propaganda (eg the alleged NATO promise) like a snake gulping down a rat.
-
I was told that Putin is crazy, from all the pro-war posters in the forum. Was that just more propaganda. I was also told that Putin was dying.
Take it in context. Putin invaded Ukraine thinking he could win in three days, and everything he's said since then is retarded bullshit. It works on his own people, cowed and subservient as they are, but the fact that it also works on mysanthropic losers throughout the West is what's actually crazy.
-
I’m not on any side. I recognize and support Ukraine’s right to defend itself. I also support sending defensive weapons. But I also recognize why this war is taking place in the first place. And I’ve learned to take with a grain of salt the propaganda pumped to the masses by the mainstream media and the CIA etc. Unfortunately, you drink it down like Kool aid. You haven’t learned a thing. Hopefully at some point you will.
Russia isn't using defensive weapons, why should Ukraine have one arm tied behind its back? The reason for this war is Putin wants the Russian Empire back.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqSGBqdXwAAQnXr?format=png&name=medium)
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqSGBqdXwAAQnXr?format=png&name=medium)
Pure propaganda.
-
Pure propaganda.
Putintards coping and seething.
-
Pure propaganda.
Yeah.
Sorry to tell you this but the Russian government has compromised the GOP and parts of the American conservative media like FOX News, including twitterers, since at least Trump. Don't be their useful accessory spreading their propaganda for them. Beijing has compromised the Liberal parties and governments at all levels in Canada, if it makes you feel any better.
-
Yeah.
Sorry to tell you this but the Russian government has compromised the GOP and parts of the American conservative media like FOX News, including twitterers, since at least Trump. Don't be their useful accessory spreading their propaganda for them. Beijing has compromised the Liberal parties and governments at all levels in Canada, if it makes you feel any better.
You need professional help.
What was posted regarding casualties is propaganda. I’d say the same thing for casualties posted by Russia. There is absolutely no way to verify these numbers. And anyone that thinks so, is a fool.
-
The old professional help line is even more common than the old stalking line, but both indicate a knowledge that your motives are transparent and you're having a little tantrum for being exposed again.
-
The old professional help line is even more common than the old stalking line, but both indicate a knowledge that your motives are transparent and you're having a little tantrum for being exposed again.
Believing any casualty numbers from either side, is like believing covid numbers from China in 2020 and 2021.
-
What is your interest in denying them, Putin-boy?
-
What is your interest in denying them, Putin-boy?
Because it’s propaganda. So are any numbers stated by Russia. It’s absurd that you’re so gullible.
-
But you don't dispute the Russian propaganda. You post it as fact. This is what exposes you as a Putin-bot, even though you think you can successfully deny it.
-
But you don't dispute the Russian propaganda. You post it as fact. This is what exposes you as a Putin-bot, even though you think you can successfully deny it.
I would dispute any numbers from Russia as well. It’s all impossible to verify with any sort of accuracy.
-
You never dispute anything from Russia. Ever.
-
You never dispute anything from Russia. Ever.
Like what?
-
Like how you repeat their propaganda, word for word, as fact. You were the one vilifying Zelensky for having the audacity to defend his country from attack. I guess you don't recall.
-
Like how you repeat their propaganda, word for word, as fact. You were the one vilifying Zelensky for having the audacity to defend his country from attack. I guess you don't recall.
Complete nonsense. I’ve never said they don’t have the right to defend themselves. You’re a liar.
-
Yes, you never said anything bad about Zelensky as he defended his country. Very brave of you to own up to your own posts.
Russia's collapse is just another example of the failure of MAGA. And you guys can never admit when you've already lost.
-
Yes, you never said anything bad about Zelensky as he defended his country. Very brave of you to own up to your own posts.
Russia's collapse is just another example of the failure of MAGA. And you guys can never admit when you've already lost.
Nonsense.
-
Exactly my point. You are cowardly, stupid, and ulitmately losers.
-
Exactly my point. You are cowardly, stupid, and ulitmately losers.
No, I just don’t accept propaganda as fact and think we should show restraint when escalating a war. That type of thing used to be popular with the left, until they all turned into neocons. You haven’t learned anything.
-
Like how you repeat their propaganda, word for word, as fact. You were the one vilifying Zelensky for having the audacity to defend his country from attack. I guess you don't recall.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXph1WoJBeDPUDnoml1lpezfFfetWH2DMUbQ&usqp=CAU)
Yes, Zelensky is a scumbag for begging NATO and it's allies for military help.
It's not like a larger and stronger country invaded Ukraine, and is raping and killing civilians, bombing cities, and kidnapping Ukrainian children, or anything.
Shady is so far up Tucker Carlson's anus, he knows by now what he had for breakfast.
-
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXph1WoJBeDPUDnoml1lpezfFfetWH2DMUbQ&usqp=CAU)
Yes, Zelensky is a scumbag for begging NATO and it's allies for military help.
It's not like a larger and stronger country invaded Ukraine, and is raping and killing civilians, bombing cities, and kidnapping Ukrainian children, or anything.
Shady is so far up Tucker Carlson's anus, he knows by now what he had for breakfast.
He’s a scumbag for trying to scare Americans with his propaganda, in order to extort more tax payer money. Remember, before this war started, Zelensky was head of the most corrupt government in Europe, probably the world.
Regardless, your heads so far up the CIA and the military industrial complex your eyes are brown.
-
He’s a scumbag for trying to scare Americans with his propaganda, in order to extort more tax payer money. Remember, before this war started, Zelensky was head of the most corrupt government in Europe, probably the world.
Regardless, your heads so far up the CIA and the military industrial complex your eyes are brown.
Do you believe Ukraine instigated hostilities with Russia?
DO you also believe COVID is a hoax?
Do you believe Sandy Hook were played by crisis actors?
Do you believe the 2000 US Election was stolen from Trump?
Do you believe drag queens are corrupting our kids, and are full of paedophiles?
If you answered "yes: to one or more of these questions, you may be intellectually challenged.
-
If you answered "yes: to one or more of these questions, you may be intellectually challenged.
That's funny coming from the person downplaying nuclear war. That's as intellectually challenged as it gets. The military industrial complex loves useful idiots like you.
-
That's funny coming from the person downplaying nuclear war. That's as intellectually challenged as it gets. The military industrial complex loves useful idiots like you.
“Downplaying nuclear war” is one of the funniest things you’ve ever said that you didn’t copy from another poster. Lol wtf does that even mean?
-
But you don't dispute the Russian propaganda. You post it as fact. This is what exposes you as a Putin-bot, even though you think you can successfully deny it.
To be fair, casualty numbers posted by the Kiev Independent should hardly be relied on.
That he's parroting Putin talking points is clear, but there are kernels of rationality here.
-
He’s a scumbag for trying to scare Americans with his propaganda, in order to extort more tax payer money. Remember, before this war started, Zelensky was head of the most corrupt government in Europe, probably the world.
Regardless, your heads so far up the CIA and the military industrial complex your eyes are brown.
I don't understand how you can take yourself seriously saying these things, considering the propaganda you're gulping from the Kremlin and, by extension, Tucker Carlson. You may as well be citing us some Alex Jones bud.
-
To be fair, casualty numbers posted by the Kiev Independent should hardly be relied on.
That he's parroting Putin talking points is clear, but there are kernels of rationality here.
What’s a Putin talking point? If Putin says the sky is blue, are we now supposed to say the opposite? For the record, I don’t trust any numbers posted by Russia either.
-
I don't understand how you can take yourself seriously saying these things, considering the propaganda you're gulping from the Kremlin and, by extension, Tucker Carlson. You may as well be citing us some Alex Jones bud.
How is stating that Ukraine pre-war was the most corrupt country in Europe? We can't just stop acknowledging facts because we hate Russia. Facts are still facts. Btw, I'm not saying that Russia isn't any less corrupt. They're probably more corrupt.
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
-
How is stating that Ukraine pre-war was the most corrupt country in Europe? We can't just stop acknowledging facts because we hate Russia. Facts are still facts. Btw, I'm not saying that Russia isn't any less corrupt. They're probably more corrupt.
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
Noted already that this was happening under the previous regime, the pro-Moscow one you wanted to keep in power.
-
Btw, I've never suggested that Ukraine instigated the war. If anyone did, it was NATO. Even Obama's former secretary of defence acknowledges that fact, and predicted this conflict 10 years ago.
-
If anyone did, it was NATO.
If...hypothetically...anyone did. F*ck, you are the stupidest person I have ever come in contact with.
-
How is stating that Ukraine pre-war was the most corrupt country in Europe? We can't just stop acknowledging facts because we hate Russia. Facts are still facts. Btw, I'm not saying that Russia isn't any less corrupt. They're probably more corrupt.
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
That's an article from 2015, before Zelensky was elected on a campaign based on fixing corruption in Ukraine. Though I'm sure there are still lots of problems, that article is pretty desperate as any sort of support for your argument, especially considering that Russia is every bit as corrupt. The only difference is that they have a dictator overseeing and officiating it all.
This little tidbit isn't really what anyone's questioning though. It's your goofy rationalization for what's going on there, and this retarded notion that NATO started the conflict.
-
Btw, I've never suggested that Ukraine instigated the war. If anyone did, it was NATO. Even Obama's former secretary of defence acknowledges that fact, and predicted this conflict 10 years ago.
I like how you always trot this out (without a citation of course) without mentioning the rather important context that 10 years ago Russia had invaded and annexed Crimea. Idiot.
-
If...hypothetically...anyone did. F*ck, you are the stupidest person I have ever come in contact with.
It’s astonishing, has to be a troll or a freak with a humiliation fetish, there’s no other explanation.
-
That's an article from 2015, before Zelensky was elected on a campaign based on fixing corruption in Ukraine. Though I'm sure there are still lots of problems, that article is pretty desperate as any sort of support for your argument, especially considering that Russia is every bit as corrupt. The only difference is that they have a dictator overseeing and officiating it all.
This little tidbit isn't really what anyone's questioning though. It's your goofy rationalization for what's going on there, and this retarded notion that NATO started the conflict.
It’s an absolute fact. Ukraine has been used by both sides since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine
-
If...hypothetically...anyone did. F*ck, you are the stupidest person I have ever come in contact with.
Suck a dick.
-
It’s an absolute fact. Ukraine has been used by both sides since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Maybe, but they chose a side. On one hand, they can align with the West, with Europe and all of the opportunity that that brings. On the other hand, they could align with shithole Russia and the poverty, oppression and hopelessness that guarantees. Seems their choice was pretty clear?
Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine
Kind of a junk article really. The predictions referred were from 1998, And NATO expanded for 24 years unabated and somehow Ukraine was the straw that broke the camel's back...or was it the Neo-Nazis committing "genorcide" in the Donbas? Or was it the phony bioweapon labs in Kharkiv? Or was it that Ukrainians are ACTUALLY Russians, despite their feelings otherwise? Or was it the historical revisionism that Ukraine was always part of Russia? Each one of these explanations are hollow and ridiculous, but if you already want to believe the narrative you can sort of pile them up into some sort of incoherent story.
-
Kind of a junk article really. The predictions referred were from 1998, And NATO expanded for 24 years unabated and somehow Ukraine was the straw that broke the camel's back...or was it the Neo-Nazis committing "genorcide" in the Donbas? Or was it the phony bioweapon labs in Kharkiv? Or was it that Ukrainians are ACTUALLY Russians, despite their feelings otherwise? Or was it the historical revisionism that Ukraine was always part of Russia? Each one of these explanations are hollow and ridiculous, but if you already want to believe the narrative you can sort of pile them up into some sort of incoherent story.
Huh? So it's a narrative to realize that Russia has had a serious problem with Nato expansion, particularly up to it's border? That's absurd. And yes, Ukraine seems to be the last straw, as voiced by Russia for several years, as adding Ukraine to Nato would be expanding right up to Russia's border. They view this the same way America viewed Russia expanding it's influence in Cuba during the cold war, which led to the missile crisis and almost nuclear war. The only real narrative at play is the ridiculously one-sided one, spewed since the beginning of this conflict by the mainstream media, bought and paid for by the CIA and the military industrial complex. Biden announced his 33rd aid package to Ukraine today. Defence contractors have hit the jackpot. No wonder none of them want it to end.
-
Huh? So it's a narrative to realize that Russia has had a serious problem with Nato expansion, particularly up to it's border? That's absurd. And yes, Ukraine seems to be the last straw, as voiced by Russia for several years, as adding Ukraine to Nato would be expanding right up to Russia's border. They view this the same way America viewed Russia expanding it's influence in Cuba during the cold war, which led to the missile crisis and almost nuclear war. The only real narrative at play is the ridiculously one-sided one, spewed since the beginning of this conflict by the mainstream media, bought and paid for by the CIA and the military industrial complex. Biden announced his 33rd aid package to Ukraine today. Defence contractors have hit the jackpot. No wonder none of them want it to end.
Those countries joined NATO because they had a serious problem with a Russia on their border. Ukraine has shown those fears were well founded.
Fear of Russia caused them to join, not love of America. Which incidentally was the reason NATO was formed in the first place.
There are no NATO missiles on the Russian border but there are plenty of Russian missiles pointed at European NATO countries.
-
Huh? So it's a narrative to realize that Russia has had a serious problem with Nato expansion, particularly up to it's border?
Look at a map. NATO's been up against Russia's border for a long time, and now there are more countries set to join. The whole purpose of NATO was to contain and deter Soviet/Russian expansion. They can **** and moan that Ukraine is falling out of their "sphere of influence", but that's a problem of their own making. Russia has everything it needs to succeed and thrive in the modern world, but instead they continue down the path of dictatorship, oppression and corruption. Their neighbours want nothing to do with it.
And yes, Ukraine seems to be the last straw, as voiced by Russia for several years, as adding Ukraine to Nato would be expanding right up to Russia's border.
Of course, because that would mean Russia could no longer bully and carve out Ukraine. What's funny is that Putin's dreams of Imperial Russia seem to be more important to you than what the Ukrainians want. ::)
They view this the same way America viewed Russia expanding it's influence in Cuba during the cold war, which led to the missile crisis and almost nuclear war.
When was the last time the US invaded Cuba, for the record? This is brain-dead moral equivalence that nobody who's not slurping Kremlin propaganda could consider seriously.
The only real narrative at play is the ridiculously one-sided one, spewed since the beginning of this conflict by the mainstream media, bought and paid for by the CIA and the military industrial complex. Biden announced his 33rd aid package to Ukraine today. Defence contractors have hit the jackpot. No wonder none of them want it to end.
Everything is so easy when you can blame it on the Spooks and the MSM. You're like a broken record.
Your problem is this whole story really is about as simple as it looks. Putin came to power 20+ years ago on the promise of economic growth and stability, which faltered ~10 years ago and hasn't improved. Russia is in stark decline and Putin can't fix it under the current system/regime. His power base is entirely based on grifting from the top. With nothing else to offer, he's pushing the fanciful dream of Russia as a great power, restored in all its glory. That's gone now too, so the Russians can't even be proud of their "mightiness" anymore.
You're absolutely right that the US MIC is loving this, but why wouldn't they? Napoleon's famous saying, "Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake" is perfect for this. Putin faceplanted the Russian army into Ukraine and the US and the EU can neuter it as a serious threat for decades to come, for pennies to the dollar with not a drop of their own blood spilt. As geo-political blunders go, this makes Iraq and Afghanistan look like kindergarten ****. Putin's scoring on his own net every day he's throwing lives away in Ukrain.e
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fqh4-TgXwAE1_eg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
-
Remember when the propagandists insisted it was Russia? And if you suggested anything else, it was a conspiracy theory and you were pro—Putin? Do you f**kers ever learn?
[attachimg=1]
-
You're confused. Why would Russia blow up its own pipeline? It was always just a question of whether Zelensky approved it. This suggests he probably didn't.
-
Remember when the propagandists insisted it was Russia? And if you suggested anything else, it was a conspiracy theory and you were pro—Putin? Do you f**kers ever learn?
(Attachment Link)
I remember when you were insisting it was the US.
-
Remember when the propagandists insisted it was Russia? And if you suggested anything else, it was a conspiracy theory and you were pro—Putin? Do you f**kers ever learn?
(Attachment Link)
We still don't know what happened. This is a suggestion of what may have happened, just like it may have been Russia, or may have been the USA, or may have been the mind-control vampires that control the MSM you rant about so much.
-
I remember when you were insisting it was the US.
Looks like it was a U.S. funded subsidiary.
-
You're confused. Why would Russia blow up its own pipeline? It was always just a question of whether Zelensky approved it. This suggests he probably didn't.
That’s what I asked as well. At the time you insisted that that was a pro-Russian talking point.
https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/the-world/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage/msg95976/#msg95976
-
Looks like it was a U.S. funded subsidiary.
Based on what?
-
Based on what?
And a "subsidiary" of what?
-
Shh....
It's the...
SpOoKS
-
Shh....
It's the...
SpOoKS
You’re probably right. I doubt some small time pro Ukrainian group has the means and sophistication to destroy a pipeline that deep in the ocean.
-
That’s what I asked as well. At the time you insisted that that was a pro-Russian talking point.
https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/the-world/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage/msg95976/#msg95976
Blaming the U.S. with no evidence is a pro-Russia talking point. Pointing out this face is not saying Russia did it themselves. I really couldn't have been clearer, but I realize you have a disability. Too bad I'm not woke enough to treat you with kindness
-
You’re probably right. I doubt some small time pro Ukrainian group has the Leah’s and sophistication to destroy a pipeline that deep in the ocean.
Considering this newest story is proposing a team of 6 diving off a yacht, there doesn't seem to be a lot of sophistication involved. Technical scuba divers could have reached that low, or any commercial submersible. Nord Stream isn't even as deep as the Great Lakes.
-
Considering this newest story is proposing a team of 6 diving off a yacht, there doesn't seem to be a lot of sophistication involved. Technical scuba divers could have reached that low, or any commercial submersible. Nord Stream isn't even as deep as the Great Lakes.
You believe that 6 rando divers were able to accomplish this? Deep sea divers aren't a dime a dozen. Either are deep sea divers with experience in sabatoge and explosives. Not to mention bringing a yacht that far out in the ocean.
-
You believe that 6 rando divers were able to accomplish this? Deep sea divers aren't a dime a dozen. Either are deep sea divers with experience in sabatoge and explosives. Not to mention bringing a yacht that far out in the ocean.
You're back to insisting it was the U.S.? How loyal you are to your Russian masters.
-
You believe that 6 rando divers were able to accomplish this? Deep sea divers aren't a dime a dozen. Either are deep sea divers with experience in sabatoge and explosives. Not to mention bringing a yacht that far out in the ocean.
LOL wut
(https://e3.365dm.com/22/09/768x432/skynews-nord-stream-pipeline_5913391.jpg?20220928163548)
-
You're back to insisting it was the U.S.? How loyal you are to your Russian masters.
I’m just listening to Biden.
https://youtu.be/B8BygV2kZBU
-
You believe that 6 rando divers were able to accomplish this? Deep sea divers aren't a dime a dozen. Either are deep sea divers with experience in sabatoge and explosives. Not to mention bringing a yacht that far out in the ocean.
You don't need any sabotage or explosive experience to place a bomb. All you need to be able to do is dive. If you have a submersible drone, you don't even need that. Any sort of explosion underwater is substantially more damaging than above the surface, so they literally could have strapped some explosives to a commercial drone and blown it up near the pipeline, and that probably wouldn't have been enough.
-
You don't need any sabotage or explosive experience to place a bomb. All you need to be able to do is dive. If you have a submersible drone, you don't even need that. Any sort of explosion underwater is substantially more damaging than above the surface, so they literally could have strapped some explosives to a commercial drone and blown it up near the pipeline, and that probably wouldn't have been enough.
Yeah you can get a recreational drone for a couple thousand bucks that can dive 500 feet which is more than enough to reach the pipeline in question.
-
You don't need any sabotage or explosive experience to place a bomb. All you need to be able to do is dive. If you have a submersible drone, you don't even need that. Any sort of explosion underwater is substantially more damaging than above the surface, so they literally could have strapped some explosives to a commercial drone and blown it up near the pipeline, and that probably wouldn't have been enough.
Yes, actually you do need experience. Especially deep sea diving and arranging 3 separate explosions underwater. It was actually a sophisticated process.
-
Yes, actually you do need experience. Especially deep sea diving and arranging 3 separate explosions underwater. It was actually a sophisticated process.
That doesn't mean the U.S. must have done it, even if your Russian talking points insist that is the case.
-
That doesn't mean the U.S. must have done it, even if your Russian talking points insist that is the case.
You’re right that it doesn’t mean they must have. But most signs point to yes, probably in an indirect way.
-
You’re right that it doesn’t mean they must have. But most signs point to yes, probably in an indirect way.
The lengths you go to to avoid simple explanations in favour of grand conspiracies is unreal.
-
That doesn't mean the U.S. must have done it, even if your Russian talking points insist that is the case.
https://youtu.be/B8BygV2kZBU
Biden “If Russia invades Ukraine, we will bring an end to nord stream.”
Reporter “How will you do that since the project is within Germany’s control?”
Biden “I promise you, we will be able to do it.”
-
The Russian effort to take Bakhmut, a former salt-mining city in eastern Ukraine, has become one of the longest and bloodiest battles in the war. And NATO intelligence estimates suggest it has been especially bloody for the Russian side.
Russian forces have lost at least five soldiers for every Ukrainian soldier killed while defending Bakhmut, a military official with NATO told CNN on Monday. The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the five-to-one ratio was an informed estimate based on Western intelligence.
The official told CNN that although the ratio was favorable to Ukraine, it had also suffered significant losses.
source: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-casualties-5-times-ukraine-soldiers-bakhmut-nato-official-2023-3
-
Mass Backstabbing Spree Over Putin’s War Sweeps Russia
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq78gv7XsAAB_r2?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Russian citizens are ratting each other out to authorities in droves for anti-war comments made in bars, beauty salons, and grocery stores in roughly a dozen cities across the country, according to a new report from the independent Russian news outlet Vrestka.
Legal filings obtained by the outlet from Moscow, Bryansk, Novosibirsk, and other cities indicate that citizens have been turned in for “violations” as minor as cracking a joke about the war, listening to Ukrainian music, or even just talking about Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion in a public space.
Many of those jailed after being reported by other citizens were charged under Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation, a new law signed by Putin last year criminalizing “public actions aimed at discrediting” Russian Armed Forces.
source: https://news.yahoo.com/mass-backstabbing-spree-over-putin-205233989.html
----
Oh those Russians....
-
The Russian effort to take Bakhmut, a former salt-mining city in eastern Ukraine, has become one of the longest and bloodiest battles in the war. And NATO intelligence estimates suggest it has been especially bloody for the Russian side.
Russian forces have lost at least five soldiers for every Ukrainian soldier killed while defending Bakhmut, a military official with NATO told CNN on Monday. The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the five-to-one ratio was an informed estimate based on Western intelligence.
The official told CNN that although the ratio was favorable to Ukraine, it had also suffered significant losses.
source: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-casualties-5-times-ukraine-soldiers-bakhmut-nato-official-2023-3
It certainly is possible, but again I’d caution taking any reports like this as truth. We’ve been told that Russia is losing badly for over a year now.
-
And they're still losing badly, despite what your talking points tell you
-
And they're still losing badly, despite what your talking points tell you
Keep falling for propaganda. You haven’t learned anything from history.
-
Keep falling for propaganda. You haven’t learned anything from history.
Is the lesson from history that we should always propagate the enemy's propaganda?
-
Is the lesson from history that we should always propagate the enemy's propaganda?
No, but it seems to be over your head.
-
No, but it seems to be over your head.
There is a world of difference between being skeptical of war-time information and propagating enemy disinformation like the U.S. is operating chemical weapons biolabs in Ukraine.
-
There is a world of difference between being skeptical of war-time information and propagating enemy disinformation like the U.S. is operating chemical weapons biolabs in Ukraine.
I certainly haven’t said anything about chemical weapons biolabs. Now, even the state department admitted to the existence of biolabs in Ukraine.
-
Now, even the state department admitted to the existence of biolabs in Ukraine.
c'mon Shady! At least attribute the misinformation properly... the Pentagon, not the U.S. State Dept..
(https://i.imgur.com/07zX0nk.gif)
-
c'mon Shady! At least attribute the misinformation properly... the Pentagon, not the U.S. State Dept..
(https://i.imgur.com/07zX0nk.gif)
True, 46 sounds like an awful lot.
-
Btw, these labs are research facilities. I’ve never stated that they’re some kind of weapons lab, etc.
-
Btw, these labs are research facilities. I’ve never stated that they’re some kind of weapons lab, etc.
Then why did you bring it up?
-
Then why did you bring it up?
Because bio labs do exist in Ukraine. It’s not a conspiracy theory.
-
You brought it up because they exist? Were you warning of a Russian attack on them? What was the point?
-
You brought it up because they exist? Were you warning of a Russian attack on them? What was the point?
The state department was worried that Russia was going to take possession of them.
-
The state department was worried that Russia was going to take possession of them.
You said nothing of the sort. You were clearly trying to infer they were WMDs and that Ukraine didn't deserve our support because of them, just like the popular Russian talking point.
-
Mass Backstabbing Spree Over Putin’s War Sweeps Russia
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq78gv7XsAAB_r2?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Russian citizens are ratting each other out to authorities in droves for anti-war comments made in bars, beauty salons, and grocery stores in roughly a dozen cities across the country, according to a new report from the independent Russian news outlet Vrestka.
Legal filings obtained by the outlet from Moscow, Bryansk, Novosibirsk, and other cities indicate that citizens have been turned in for “violations” as minor as cracking a joke about the war, listening to Ukrainian music, or even just talking about Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion in a public space.
Many of those jailed after being reported by other citizens were charged under Article 20.3.3 of the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation, a new law signed by Putin last year criminalizing “public actions aimed at discrediting” Russian Armed Forces.
source: https://news.yahoo.com/mass-backstabbing-spree-over-putin-205233989.html
----
Oh those Russians....
Shades of Stalin. Some things about Russia just don’t change.
-
Shades of Stalin. Some things about Russia just don’t change.
Also sounds like us during covid.
-
You said nothing of the sort. You were clearly trying to infer they were WMDs and that Ukraine didn't deserve our support because of them, just like the popular Russian talking point.
Yes I did. You’re projecting again.
-
Yes I did. You’re projecting again.
Cite? I ask because I know you will be impotent in your response. 😂
-
Cite? I ask because I know you will be impotent in your response. 😂
Nice try buddy, I’m not doing your work for you. Cite that I did.
-
Also sounds like us during covid.
You have no clue.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrAiZWpWAAAFMTK?format=png&name=medium)
Two consecutive days where the causality rate exceeded 1,000 Russian soldiers. Apparently Bakhmut is death trap. The battle of Bakhmut may be the bloodiest battle the World has seen since Stalingrad.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrAiZWpWAAAFMTK?format=png&name=medium)
Two consecutive days where the causality rate exceeded 1,000 Russian soldiers. Apparently Bakhmut is death trap. The battle of Bakhmut may be the bloodiest battle the World has seen since Stalingrad.
😂😂😂
-
You have no clue.
Oh I do. We even had a government that basically scarlet lettered anyone that strayed from the approved philosophy. Society did the same. But I love that you accept war propaganda as fact, and then insist that I’m the one that doesn’t have a clue. 😂
-
[attachimg=1]
-
Oh I do. We even had a government that basically scarlet lettered anyone that strayed from the approved philosophy. Society did the same. But I love that you accept war propaganda as fact, and then insist that I’m the one that doesn’t have a clue. 😂
No you don’t. Informing on friends a family was a national sport in Stalin’s time. People wound up in gulags or with a bullet in the back of their head in the Lubyanka basement. Putin is doing the same thing. Shouldn’t be a surprise as he is ex KGB.
You really have no clue, you come across as a melodramatic fool.
BTW, the Lubyanka is still the FSB headquarters. Some things just don't change in Russia.
-
(Attachment Link)
Boomer levels off the charts.
-
You really have no clue, you come across as a melodramatic fool.
It's not melodrama. It's coping.
Folks are unhappy with the world and their place in it, so rather than face reality, they bend it into a comfier version that ensures they don't have to consider their own shortcomings and ignorance. "I'm poor and lost because of the spooks, man."
-
No you don’t. Informing on friends a family was a national sport in Stalin’s time. People wound up in gulags or with a bullet in the back of their head in the Lubyanka basement. Putin is doing the same thing. Shouldn’t be a surprise as he is ex KGB.
You really have no clue, you come across as a melodramatic fool.
BTW, the Lubyanka is still the FSB headquarters. Some things just don't change in Russia.
It’s no different than what’s been going on in China for decades.
-
It's not melodrama. It's coping.
Folks are unhappy with the world and their place in it, so rather than face reality, they bend it into a comfier version that ensures they don't have to consider their own shortcomings and ignorance. "I'm poor and lost because of the spooks, man."
Ok Dr. Phil! 😂
-
The reality is that we lost out sh*t over a virus that’s moderately worse than the flu. Russia is losing their sh*t over what they consider to be an existential threat, NATO expanding to their border.
We had to show papers to do basic things like but food. We had a government “other” people that stood up for fundamental rights. People lost their livelihoods, had bank accounts frozen without a due process, arrested for having their business open, and forced to have chemicals injected into their bodies without their consent. It’s funny that you Branch Covidians can just gloss over all this now, but people haven’t forgotten your authoritarianism, despite your best efforts.
-
It’s no different than what’s been going on in China for decades.
Ye, China is just as bad as Russia. Your whataboutism just exposes you as a Putin shill.
-
The reality is that we lost out sh*t over a virus that’s moderately worse than the flu.
Tell that to the million dead Americans, dum-dum.
-
It’s no different than what’s been going on in China for decades.
You seem to be an admirer.
-
The reality is that we lost out sh*t over a virus that’s moderately worse than the flu. Russia is losing their sh*t over what they consider to be an existential threat, NATO expanding to their border.
We had to show papers to do basic things like but food. We had a government “other” people that stood up for fundamental rights. People lost their livelihoods, had bank accounts frozen without a due process, arrested for having their business open, and forced to have chemicals injected into their bodies without their consent. It’s funny that you Branch Covidians can just gloss over all this now, but people haven’t forgotten your authoritarianism, despite your best efforts.
The only NATO countries on the Russian border are Latvia and Estonia. They will also be getting Finland as a result of invading Ukraine. If their takeover of Ukraine succeeds, they will then have four more NATO countries on their border.
Calling this invasion a war will get you ten years in Putin's Russia.
-
Ye, China is just as bad as Russia. Your whataboutism just exposes you as a Putin shill.
Actually, China is much worse, and 100 times more powerful.
-
Tell that to the million dead Americans, dum-dum.
You mean the million dead that were already very sick and unhealthy? The ones with an average of 2.5 comorbidities? The ones with an average age of in their 70s? Sure. When you’re old and sick, even the flu is dangerous. Covid was moderately more worse than the flu, hence the results.
-
You mean the million dead that were already very sick and unhealthy? The ones with an average of 2.5 comorbidities? The ones with an average age of in their 70s? Sure. When you’re old and sick, even the flu is dangerous. Covid was moderately more worse than the flu, hence the results.
Dehumanizing the people who died suits you.
-
You mean the million dead that were already very sick and unhealthy? The ones with an average of 2.5 comorbidities? The ones with an average age of in their 70s? Sure. When you’re old and sick, even the flu is dangerous. Covid was moderately more worse than the flu, hence the results.
When <50,000 people die in the US of the flu each year, whereas 350,000 people died of COVID in the USA in 2020 alone, despite lockdown and mask mandates.
What a delusion!
-
Incident between Russian jet and American drone caught on video in Ukraine. We’re literally a heartbeat away now from world war 3.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-video-of-mid-air-encounter-between-russian-fighter-jet-and-us-drone-released-by-pentagon/
-
Incident between Russian jet and American drone caught on video in Ukraine. We’re literally a heartbeat away now from world war 3.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-video-of-mid-air-encounter-between-russian-fighter-jet-and-us-drone-released-by-pentagon/
You should look up what the word "literally" means before you use it again.
-
Big problems coming up for Ukraine.
The Ukrainian military is firing thousands of artillery shells a day as it tries to hold the eastern city of Bakhmut, a pace that American and European officials say is unsustainable and could jeopardize a planned springtime campaign that they hope will prove decisive.
The bombardment has been so intense that the Pentagon raised concerns with Kyiv recently after several days of nonstop artillery firing, two U.S. officials said, highlighting the tension between Ukraine’s decision to defend Bakhmut at all costs and its hopes for retaking territory in the spring. One of those officials said the Americans warned Ukraine against wasting ammunition at a key time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/16/world/europe/ukraine-ammunition-bakhmut.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
-
Big problems coming up for Ukraine.
The Ukrainian military is firing thousands of artillery shells a day as it tries to hold the eastern city of Bakhmut, a pace that American and European officials say is unsustainable and could jeopardize a planned springtime campaign that they hope will prove decisive.
The bombardment has been so intense that the Pentagon raised concerns with Kyiv recently after several days of nonstop artillery firing, two U.S. officials said, highlighting the tension between Ukraine’s decision to defend Bakhmut at all costs and its hopes for retaking territory in the spring. One of those officials said the Americans warned Ukraine against wasting ammunition at a key time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/16/world/europe/ukraine-ammunition-bakhmut.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
Better sell them some more shells!
-
Big problems coming up for Ukraine.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/16/world/europe/ukraine-ammunition-bakhmut.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
I thought everything was propaganda that we shouldn't believe ...or is that just the things you don't want to hear?
-
I thought everything was propaganda that we shouldn't believe ...or is that just the things you don't want to hear?
We shouldn't trust MSM, especially the New York Times , only when it goes against his narrative.
-
We shouldn't trust MSM, especially the New York Times , only when it goes against his narrative.
Nah, just stop slurping up everything the government tells you is true. The Russian government, the American government or the Ukrainian government. They’re all interested in pushing narratives, whether they’re true or not. Have you people learned nothing?
-
Nah, just stop slurping up everything the government tells you is true. The Russian government, the American government or the Ukrainian government. They’re all interested in pushing narratives, whether they’re true or not. Have you people learned nothing?
Yeah user Coolio there’s only one place you can find the truth: Facebook boomer memes.
-
Nah, just stop slurping up everything the government tells you is true. The Russian government, the American government or the Ukrainian government. They’re all interested in pushing narratives, whether they’re true or not. Have you people learned nothing?
While you slurp and regurgitate garbage news off your telegram and reddit feed...
The Kremlin loves goobers like you.
-
While you slurp and regurgitate garbage news off your telegram and reddit feed...
The Kremlin loves goobers like you.
The Pentagon loves goobers like you too. So does the military industrial complex. Now run to CNN so they can tell you what to think. Don’t you love Joe so many ex-Pentagon and ex-CIA work for them now?
-
Nah, just stop slurping up everything the government tells you is true. The Russian government, the American government or the Ukrainian government. They’re all interested in pushing narratives, whether they’re true or not. Have you people learned nothing?
[/quote
I did not know the US Government owned the New York Times .
-
The Pentagon loves goobers like you too. So does the military industrial complex. Now run to CNN so they can tell you what to think. Don’t you love Joe so many ex-Pentagon and ex-CIA work for them now?
I would rather trust the Pentagon, than a bunch of YouTube QAnon videos. As for CNN, I would trust them over Rebel News and Tucker Carlson any day of the week.
-
A Ukrainian soldier wondered if the Russians advancing on Bakhmut are on drugs: 'Otherwise, how can they go to certain death?'
A Ukrainian soldier fighting in Bakhmut told The New York Times that his unit has sometimes wondered if fighters belonging to Russia's infamous Wagner Group are on drugs. While there's no evidence of that, it's not the first time Ukrainians have wondered aloud that the behavior of some Russian soldiers could be medically induced.
The Wagner Group is a powerful Russian paramilitary unit that has emerged as a key ally in Russia's advance inside Ukraine. The group once sparked controversy when it offered convicted Russian prisoners freedom in return for fighting. Fighters from the Wagner group are notorious for storming frontline positions and enduring severe casualties.
A retired US Marine estimated that the average life expectancy of a Wagner soldier on the frontlines in eastern Ukraine is just four hours. And a 48-year-old prison inmate who exchanged his freedom to serve in Russia's Wagner Group told the Wall Street Journal earlier this month that the group only trained him for three weeks and that he expected to die on his first mission.
It's the kind of behavior that soldiers from Ukraine's Third Assault Brigade, which is now fighting the Wagner Group in the key eastern city of Bakhmut, believe could be the result of taking drugs. The unit's media officer told The New York Times that 10 to 15 Wagner fighters were advancing on their position, to their almost certain deaths, every day during the first month of fighting.
"They are killed and they come again," he told The Times. "Our guys are wondering if they are on drugs. Otherwise, how can they go to certain death, stepping over the rotting corpses of their colleagues? You can go mad a bit." Ukrainians earlier speculated that Russian soldiers were taking drugs in November as winter began to make the fighting ever more miserable, telling AFP that Russian soldiers seemed like "zombies."
"You shoot them and more come constantly," one soldier said, according to AFP.
https://www.insider.com/ukrainian-soldiers-russia-bakhmut-frontline-drugs-2023-3
In fairness to the Russian soldiers, I would want to be on drugs if I ever had to go to the Ukraine front-line.
-
The Pentagon loves goobers like you too. So does the military industrial complex. Now run to CNN so they can tell you what to think. Don’t you love Joe so many ex-Pentagon and ex-CIA work for them now?
Funny how this skepticism towards the intelligence communities is nowhere to be seen when it comes to their assessment of the origins of COVID-19. It's almost as if you pick and choose what "official" narratives based on whether or not they confirm your biases.
-
I would rather trust the Pentagon, than a bunch of YouTube QAnon videos. As for CNN, I would trust them over Rebel News and Tucker Carlson any day of the week.
ALL MSM LIES.
ONLY TUCKER CARLSON AND THE GARBAGE WEB TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO HEAR THE "TRUTH".
-
ALL MSM LIES.
ONLY TUCKER CARLSON AND THE GARBAGE WEB TELL ME WHAT I WANT TO HEAR THE "TRUTH".
It's funny how you people get so bent out of shape when one person in all of mainstream media, provides an alternative opinion. You're so scared of differing opinions that don't mirror the entire U.S. government and 99% of all media. You need it to be 100%. You somehow consider that to be a "healthy" democracy.
-
A Ukrainian soldier wondered if the Russians advancing on Bakhmut are on drugs: 'Otherwise, how can they go to certain death?'
A Ukrainian soldier fighting in Bakhmut told The New York Times that his unit has sometimes wondered if fighters belonging to Russia's infamous Wagner Group are on drugs. While there's no evidence of that, it's not the first time Ukrainians have wondered aloud that the behavior of some Russian soldiers could be medically induced.
The Wagner Group is a powerful Russian paramilitary unit that has emerged as a key ally in Russia's advance inside Ukraine. The group once sparked controversy when it offered convicted Russian prisoners freedom in return for fighting. Fighters from the Wagner group are notorious for storming frontline positions and enduring severe casualties.
A retired US Marine estimated that the average life expectancy of a Wagner soldier on the frontlines in eastern Ukraine is just four hours. And a 48-year-old prison inmate who exchanged his freedom to serve in Russia's Wagner Group told the Wall Street Journal earlier this month that the group only trained him for three weeks and that he expected to die on his first mission.
It's the kind of behavior that soldiers from Ukraine's Third Assault Brigade, which is now fighting the Wagner Group in the key eastern city of Bakhmut, believe could be the result of taking drugs. The unit's media officer told The New York Times that 10 to 15 Wagner fighters were advancing on their position, to their almost certain deaths, every day during the first month of fighting.
"They are killed and they come again," he told The Times. "Our guys are wondering if they are on drugs. Otherwise, how can they go to certain death, stepping over the rotting corpses of their colleagues? You can go mad a bit." Ukrainians earlier speculated that Russian soldiers were taking drugs in November as winter began to make the fighting ever more miserable, telling AFP that Russian soldiers seemed like "zombies."
"You shoot them and more come constantly," one soldier said, according to AFP.
https://www.insider.com/ukrainian-soldiers-russia-bakhmut-frontline-drugs-2023-3
In fairness to the Russian soldiers, I would want to be on drugs if I ever had to go to the Ukraine front-line.
Fantastic propaganda!
-
It's funny how you people get so bent out of shape when one person in all of mainstream media, provides an alternative opinion. You're so scared of differing opinions that don't mirror the entire U.S. government and 99% of all media. You need it to be 100%. You somehow consider that to be a "healthy" democracy.
It's like jeez a guy like tucker can't even take a break from spreading white nationalist talking points to repeat Russian propaganda without people getting bent out of shape.
-
Tucker Carlson gets paid to read a teleprompter.
As an aside, I'm 98% convinced Tulsi Gabbard works for the Russians.
-
Tucker Carlson gets paid to read a teleprompter.
As an aside, I'm 98% convinced Tulsi Gabbard works for the Russians.
Senator McCarthy would be proud! 🤣
-
It's funny how you people get so bent out of shape when one person in all of mainstream media, provides an alternative opinion.
The only thing that's funny is that there are donkeys out there that take guys like this or Alex Jones seriously. What Tucker Carlson says isn't really the problem. There are always people out there willing to say literally anything. The problem is that retards believe what they're saying.
-
The only thing that's funny is that there are donkeys out there that take guys like this or Alex Jones seriously. What Tucker Carlson says isn't really the problem. There are always people out there willing to say literally anything. The problem is that retards believe what they're saying.
I agree. There are even retards that believe what CNN tells them. They take it as gospel. LOL!
-
Amnesty international speaks out against Ukraine war crimes. Let me guess though, amnesty international is pushing Putin talking points? They’re carrying water for Russia. Or, maybe everything in the mainstream media, and from the Pentagon regarding Ukraine isn’t always true!
Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
-
I have no doubt the Ukrainians are doing all kinds of terrible things to the Russians who invaded them.
-
I have no doubt the Ukrainians are doing all kinds of terrible things to the Russians who invaded them.
You didn’t read it did you? Amnesty international lists the war crimes that are affecting Ukraine citizens. Regardless, I’m glad you are admitting that Zelensky is a war criminal. You know there’s no legal excuses for committing war crimes right?
-
Putin-boy says what?
-
That was from last July. Anything more recent?
-
You didn’t read it did you? Amnesty international lists the war crimes that are affecting Ukraine citizens. Regardless, I’m glad you are admitting that Zelensky is a war criminal. You know there’s no legal excuses for committing war crimes right?
Since when are you against war crime?
-
Putin-boy says what?
Classic Blubber Slimy. War crimes are bad, unless my side is doing it. Then it's ok.
-
That was from last July. Anything more recent?
So war crimes are ok, as long as their from 7 months ago? Does that go for Putin as well?
-
Classic Blubber Slimy. War crimes are bad, unless my side is doing it. Then it's ok.
Again, all I said is you're a retarded Putin-bot. Just because you don't know how to read doesn't mean I said things you imagined reading
-
Again, all I said is you're a retarded Putin-bot. Just because you don't know how to read doesn't mean I said things you imagined reading
Yes, I know, anyone that says anything you disagree with is a retarded Putin-bot. You need to grow up already.
-
Yes, I know, anyone that says anything you disagree with is a retarded Putin-bot. You need to grow up already.
Not at all. You're the only retarded Putin-bot around here.
-
Not at all. You're the only retarded Putin-bot around here.
I know, I know, even Amnesty International is a Putin-bot huh? You're beyond ridiculous. Keep cheering on war crimes.
-
I know, I know, even Amnesty International is a Putin-bot huh? You're beyond ridiculous. Keep cheering on war crimes.
No, they aren't. Their points were legitimate. But you're still a retarded Putin-bot. At least you don't try to hide it anymore
-
No, they aren't. Their points were legitimate. But you're still a retarded Putin-bot. At least you don't try to hide it anymore
Right, so pointing out legitimate points is being a Putin-bot. Got it.
-
Right, so pointing out legitimate points is being a Putin-bot. Got it.
Cheery-picking report in order to make Ukraine look bad is obviously being a Putin-bot. Are you still trying to deny what side you're on? Even Tucker will admit that honestly. 😂
-
Cheery-picking report in order to make Ukraine look bad is obviously being a Putin-bot. Are you still trying to deny what side you're on? Even Tucker will admit that honestly. 😂
I linked to the report, I didn't cherrypick anything. However, it's definitley something that most people won't see on tv or in the mainstream media. I know you have balance though.
-
I linked to the report, I didn't cherrypick anything.
Then how come no reports on the considerably worse Russian war crimes? All you have is Ukrainians fighting back against an occupying army in populated areas, and you use that to try to reduce support for Ukraine. While being too cowardly to even admit which side you're on. You just get more and more pathetic.
-
So war crimes are ok, as long as their from 7 months ago? Does that go for Putin as well?
No they aren't but are they still doing it?
Putin is certainly still targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
-
Then how come no reports on the considerably worse Russian war crimes? All you have is Ukrainians fighting back against an occupying army in populated areas, and you use that to try to reduce support for Ukraine. While being too cowardly to even admit which side you're on. You just get more and more pathetic.
Because those instances are constantly reported on. There’s no shortage of information when it comes to Russia.
-
No they aren't but are they still doing it?
Putin is certainly still targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Well Amnesty international suggests that Ukraine is purposely putting civilians in harms way to make that impression.
-
Because those instances are constantly reported on. There’s no shortage of information when it comes to Russia.
Russia invaded a country, bombs civilians, kills and kidnaps their children, but they still have your support. Ukraine fights back in a populated area and you're crying about war crimes. One would have to be pretty stupid to think you have any brains at all
-
Russia invaded a country, bombs civilians, kills and kidnaps their children, but they still have your support. Ukraine fights back in a populated area and you're crying about war crimes. One would have to be pretty stupid to think you have any brains at all
Nobody is say Russia hasn’t also committed war crimes.
-
Nobody is say Russia hasn’t also committed war crimes.
That's because it's irrefutable and widespread. And yet you and Tucker are still on their side
-
That's because it's irrefutable and widespread. And yet you and Tucker are still on their side
I’m not on anyone side. I just acknowledge all information. It’s not sorted out and cherry picked by the military industrial complex, the mainstream media and CIA.
-
I’m not on anyone side. I just acknowledge all information.
Not on "anyone" side? Not even the side of western democracy? And all that information you acknowledge just happens to favour the side that opposes western democracy. Uh huh.
-
Well Amnesty international suggests that Ukraine is purposely putting civilians in harms way to make that impression.
Was last summer.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FssXhAxWcAE-rGO?format=jpg&name=medium)
-
Finland officially joined NATO today (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_213448.htm). Oddly enough, Russia, which I've been told regards NATO expansion to its borders as an existential threat, has not invaded Finland but continues to grind away in Ukraine, a country that was not a member or prospective member of NATO before Russia invaded. It's almost as if the NATO thing is a Russian propaganda point and the real issue Russia invaded was to take over a country it regards as a historical part of its empire (a fact they've also been quite open about, not that you'd know it from listening to their apologists0.
-
Finland officially joined NATO today (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_213448.htm). Oddly enough, Russia, which I've been told regards NATO expansion to its borders as an existential threat, has not invaded Finland but continues to grind away in Ukraine, a country that was not a member or prospective member of NATO before Russia invaded. It's almost as if the NATO thing is a Russian propaganda point and the real issue Russia invaded was to take over a country it regards as a historical part of its empire (a fact they've also been quite open about, not that you'd know it from listening to their apologists0.
I think Putin wanted to annex more of Ukraine territory as you say and prospective Ukraine NATO membership (which there was movement towards under Zelenskyy) was a threat to this, since it would make it virtually impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Presidency_of_Volodymyr_Zelenskyy_(from_2019)
-
I think Putin wanted to annex more of Ukraine territory as you say and prospective Ukraine NATO membership (which there was movement towards under Zelenskyy) was a threat to this, since it would make it virtually impossible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Presidency_of_Volodymyr_Zelenskyy_(from_2019)
I don't blame Ukraine at all. A powerful neighbour that has a history of invading and annexing the country, had been acting aggressively towards them for 15 years. It would have been in Ukraine's best interest to establish closer ties to the West, including joining NATO. After all, nearly every country that was part of the Iron Curtain joined NATO.
-
Nearly every country ? I think around 6 actually.... https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/nato_countries.htm
-
Nearly every country ? I think around 6 actually.... https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/nato_countries.htm
It was probably better to say "literally every country other than Serbia", because they're all part of NATO. Even Montenegro (part of former Yugoslavia) joined, and Kosovo aims to as well eventually.
You really couldn't get a better indication of how Europe views the former Soviet Union and the Russian Federation than that.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftk5nC_XoAAoelP?format=png&name=medium)
180,000+ Russian casualties. Incredible.
I noticed not many Russian tanks have been lost lately, indicating that the Russian army is running dangerously low on tanks.
I am eagerly anticipating the Ukrainian spring offensive.
-
"KYIV INDEPENDENT" :)
Do. Not. Trust.
But ... sure ...
-
"KYIV INDEPENDENT" :)
Do. Not. Trust.
But ... sure ...
The figures that the USA and European countries give are similar.
Ukraine is much better than Russia when it comes to validity of the media.
-
The figures that the USA and European countries give are similar.
Ukraine is much better than Russia when it comes to validity of the media.
Not really. Ukraine has restricted free speech, even jailing and banning people that have spoken "against the cause" in any way.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftk5nC_XoAAoelP?format=png&name=medium)
180,000+ Russian casualties. Incredible.
I noticed not many Russian tanks have been lost lately, indicating that the Russian army is running dangerously low on tanks.
I am eagerly anticipating the Ukrainian spring offensive.
This should all be taken with a grain of salt. Any information that comes from Russia, or Ukraine should not be accepted as anything close to fact.
-
Yes, that's certainly true - it would be wise to not put much stock in Ukrainian estimates.
3600 tanks, for example, seems unlikely to me.
Some of these numbers are near-identical to outside estimates however, with the 180,000 casualty figure matching the low-end estimates coming out of the Pentagon and elsewhere.
-
Yes, that's certainly true - it would be wise to not put much stock in Ukrainian estimates.
3600 tanks, for example, seems unlikely to me.
Some of these numbers are near-identical to outside estimates however, with the 180,000 casualty figure matching the low-end estimates coming out of the Pentagon and elsewhere.
I try to cross reference the numbers the Ukrainians are providing with US and European intelligence. They are fairly accurate.
OTOH, the Russian figures are incredible, and out of touch with reality.
-
Along with everything else that comes out of Russia these days.
-
As we have seen with the recent leaks, the pentagon, Ukraine and the media have been painting a much different picture than what’s actually reality.
We’ve also learned recently that the Minsk accords were just a stalling maneuver by the West. They had no intentions of an actual peace deal that could’ve prevented this war in the first place.
-
As we have seen with the recent leaks, the pentagon, Ukraine and the media have been painting a much different picture than what’s actually reality.
What is the real picture?
-
What is the real picture?
Shithead is probably referencing the casualty figures that were included in the leak that were altered by Russian Telegrammers to make things look worse for Ukraine and better for Russia (even though the opposite was true).
-
Ukraine carries out drone attacks on the Kremlin as the war escalates.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-drone-attacks-on-kremlin-kyiv-denies-involvement
-
Weird that you automatically accept Russia's version as fact and dismiss Ukraine's. It's
almost like you are firmly on China/Russia's side.
-
Ukraine carries out drone attacks on the Kremlin as the war escalates.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-drone-attacks-on-kremlin-kyiv-denies-involvement
Old news.
Russia carried out drone attacks against the Kremlin and shot it down.
-
Old news.
Russia carried out drone attacks against the Kremlin and shot it down.
Russia did not attack themselves. That’s a debunked conspiracy theory.
-
Russia did not attack themselves. That’s a debunked conspiracy theory.
Does China/Russia-boy have a cite?
-
Russia did not attack themselves. That’s a debunked conspiracy theory.
Try obtaining your news from authentic sites, not YouTube videos.
-
Try obtaining your news from authentic sites, not YouTube videos.
Try not believe in conspiracy theories because it confirms your biases.
Ukrainians Were Likely Behind Kremlin Drone Attack, U.S. Officials Say
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/24/us/politics/ukraine-kremlin-drone-attack.html
US intelligence indicates Ukrainians may have launched drone attack on Kremlin
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/politics/us-intelligence-kremlin-drone-attack/index.html
-
"May" have happened and even "likely" to have happened does not mean it certainly happened. Only you and your Russia/China brethren make that claim.
-
War comes home to Russia: Pro-Kyiv fighters seek Putin’s downfall
Russia has been jolted by one of the most daring incursions, allegedly carried out by groups including Russian nationals.
By Mansur Mirovalev
Published On 25 May 2023
25 May 2023
Kyiv, Ukraine – This week, a man with yellow and blue plastic bands on his helmet and camouflage uniform was filmed riding atop an armoured vehicle. The colours are unmistakably those of the Ukrainian national flag, but the man – seen in the video posted on his military unit’s Telegram channel on Tuesday – is a Russian national.
He chose to fight for Ukraine, and brought the war home on Monday, to the western Russian region of Belgorod that had already been shelled and attacked, apparently by Ukrainian drones, for months.
(https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/INTERACTIVE-WHO-CONTROLS-WHAT-IN-UKRAINE-1684838414.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770&quality=80)
The unidentified man in the video is part of the Russian Volunteer Corps, a military unit formed by fugitive far-right nationalists forced out of Russia. The group only accepts Russian nationals as members.
Some of the Corps’ fighters volunteered to join Ukrainian forces in 2014, after Moscow annexed Crimea and incited separatist revolts in the southeastern Donbas region, and some joined after the latest war began in February 2022. The Corps consists of “dozens of fighters”, Fortuna, as one of the group’s founders calls himself, told a news conference in October.
Two months earlier, they became part of the International Legion of Ukraine, a group of volunteers from all over the world that reports to Ukraine’s defence ministry. Moscow, which is reluctant to publicly admit Russian nationals are fighting for Ukraine, blamed Kyiv for the incursion, a claim which was quickly denied.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, questioned if the attackers were ethnic Russians, said, they are “Ukrainian fighters from Ukraine. There are many ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. But they are still Ukrainian militants”. The Ukrainian defence ministry – along with other officials in Kyiv – initially distanced themselves from the Corps.
Its first confirmed raid on Russia took place on March 2, after they entered two villages in the border region of Bryansk. The Corps then released a video of its fighters standing outside a village hospital and urging Russians “to riot and fight”.
Bryansk Governor Aleksander Bogomaz said they killed a civilian and wounded a 10-year-old. Russian President Vladimir Putin cast the raid as a “terrorist act”. Mykhailo Podolyak, an aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, called those claims a “classic deliberate provocation”.
But Ukraine’s defence ministry denied a role in organising the raid.
“These are the people who fight with arms against Putin’s regime and supporters. Perhaps, Russians are beginning to wake up,” military intelligence spokesman Andriy Yusov said.
A bigger bang
On Monday, the Corps started its second, far more daring incursion in Russia. Along with The Freedom of Russia Legion – also known as the Liberty of Russia Legion, a military unit which includes ex-Russian prisoners of war who have switched sides, they stormed a border checkpoint and spilled into the Grayvoron district in Belgorod.
The district is surrounded by Ukrainian territory on three sides, but its administration failed to protect it with trenches, artillery and anti-tank installations. The invaders had two tanks and 10 armoured vehicles and were backed by light drones.
They killed a border guard, one of the fighters told the Novaya Gazeta daily on condition of anonymity, reportedly captured one more and reached three villages, where they started building fortifications and clashed with Russian forces. The incursion highlighted the vulnerabilities of Russia’s border regions, military analysts say.
“It showed that Russia has no reserves in border regions and weak reserves in the operational depth, which means that the residents of all districts bordering Ukraine are in immediate danger and must be evacuated,” Nikolay Mitrokin of Germany’s Bremen University told Al Jazeera.
The Corps claimed to have occupied a “piece” of Russia. “The situation in a small yet our own piece of Motherland is so far alarming, and there’s a need to clean up,” said the caption under a video showing a Corps fighter.
By Monday night, they had attacked the local headquarters of the interior ministry and the FSB, Russia’s main intelligence agency. On Tuesday, Russia claimed to have killed “70 Ukrainian terrorists”, roughly the number of all Corps fighters. The group responded with a video showing several fighters with blurred faces and three armoured vehicles.
This time, Kyiv did not deny ties to the group. Their goal is “to push the enemy in order to create a strip of safe land to protect Ukrainian civilian population”, intelligence spokesman Andriy Yusov said on Monday. A more immediate and important goal is to force the Kremlin to deploy forces to the border regions of Belgorod, Bryansk and Kursk.
The deployment will surely decrease Russia’s military might in Ukraine before the long-awaited counteroffensive, observers say. “This is a risk for Russia to get a good screw-up on the front line,” Kyiv-based analyst Igar Tyshkevich told Al Jazeera.
Hiding in Ukraine
Far-right, ultranationalist and white supremacist groups mushroomed in Russia in the early 2000s, creating a decentralised movement that involved tens of thousands. They marched in urban centres, killed and wounded hundreds of migrant workers from Central Asia and the Caucasus, and even hatched plans to topple Putin’s government and create a neo-Nazi “Fourth Reich”.
Ukrainian far-right groups developed in parallel, but their ideology was different, Tyshkevich said – anti-imperialistic “in principle”, less racist and xenophobic.
However, in terms of organisation, the Russian influence was formative. Before 2014, the movements in both nations were “amorphous” youth subcultures that formed a “system of connected vessels”, Vyacheslav Likhachev, a Kyiv-based expert on ultranationalism, told Al Jazeera.
When the Kremlin **** down on the far right, many activists moved to Ukraine “to hide in the familiar linguistic and cultural environment and to keep indoctrinating and passing their experience to their Ukrainian brethren”, he said. After 2014, the flight became a flood.
Most of the refugees quit politics, but some kept positioning themselves as “the most right Russians” who were against Putin and European liberalism, he said.
White Rex
The founders of the Corps were among them – and they still want to topple Putin. “Russia’s collapse will allow us to return home,” Denis Kapustin, the Corps founder, told the news conference in October. “We will facilitate the complete and absolute breakdown of the political order in Russia.”
The burly 39-year-old calls himself a seasoned skinhead, football fan and organiser of mixed martial arts fights. He lived in Germany, where police described him as “one of the most influential activists” of the far-right movement.
After returning to Russia he moved to Ukraine in 2017, where he developed ties with Azov, a regiment known for defending the southern Ukrainian city of Mariupol last spring. Some of the Azov members – including fugitive Russians – espoused far-right views. The US Congress banned the regiment in 2018 from using Washington-supplied military aid.
What next?
The Ukrainian far-right groups and their newly-recruited Russian members were highly visible before the war. They organised rallies, assaulted Roma encampments, beat up pro-Russian politicians and LGBTQ activists, clashed with police – and almost always walked away scot-free.
But since the war began, their influence waned. “The [Ukrainian] society tilted to the right, but on the other hand, the extreme shifted towards the public in terms of reduced radicalism,” analyst Tyshkevich said.
SOURCE: AL JAZEERA
-
Russia will pay for what they did yesterday.
-
Russia will pay for what they did yesterday.
It was probably retaliation for the Nordstream pipeline.
-
The empty Nordstream pipeline that wasn't transporting gas to anyone and wasn't likely to anytime in the future? The one that Putin tried to (and utterly failed) to play Chicken with over Ukraine and gas supplies?
-
The empty Nordstream pipeline that wasn't transporting gas to anyone and wasn't likely to anytime in the future? The one that Putin tried to (and utterly failed) to play Chicken with over Ukraine and gas supplies?
Sure. Do you think that because it wasn't transporting gas, which was Russia's decision, that that means anything in particular?
-
Nord Stream Gas Explosions May Have Caused Greater Ecological Damage Than Expected
https://www.forbes.com/sites/heatherfarmbrough/2023/03/14/nord-stream-gas-explosions-may-have-caused-greater-ecological-damage-than-expected/?sh=f85335291b5a
-
It was probably retaliation for the Nordstream pipeline.
Putin thanks you for your service!
-
Putin thanks you for your service!
And the military industrial complex thanks you for yours.
-
And the military industrial complex thanks you for yours.
Aren't you pro-Israel? lol.
-
Aren't you pro-Israel? lol.
In terms of what? Existing?
-
In terms of what? Existing?
In terms of giving them massive quantities of military aid.
-
Pentagon acknowledges $3 billion accounting error in Ukraine aid
https://thehill.com/newsletters/defense-national-security/4011496-pentagon-acknowledges-3-billion-accounting-error-in-ukraine-aid/amp/
An accounting error led to the Pentagon overestimating the cost of the military aid it has sent to Ukraine by “at least” $3 billion, defense department officials disclosed on Thursday, a finding that will allow the Biden administration to send more weapons to aid Kyiv’s planned summer counteroffensive without seeking additional funding from Congress.
In its accounting, the Pentagon used replacement cost to value the weapons aid, instead of the weaponry's value when it was purchased and depreciated, the senior defense officials said.
Since August 2021, the United States has sent weapons valued at about $21.1 billion to Ukraine from its stockpiles.
Changing the valuation of the equipment could delay the Biden administrations' need to ask Congress to authorize more funds for Ukraine as the debt ceiling fight intensifies. (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pentagon-accounting-error-overvalued-ukraine-aid-by-3-billion-sources-2023-05-18/)
-
Sure. Do you think that because it wasn't transporting gas, which was Russia's decision, that that means anything in particular?
It means that blowing it up didn't hurt Russia. They had absolutely nothing to lose by blowing it up, but the confusion its sown has been useful.
-
It means that blowing it up didn't hurt Russia. They had absolutely nothing to lose by blowing it up, but the confusion its sown has been useful.
Even the “experts” agree that the evidence points to Ukraine. You’re a conspiracy theorist.
-
What is your reason for bringing it up?
-
What is your reason for bringing it up?
Because it’s part of the war between Ukraine and Russia. Just like the recent dam attack.
-
So you're trying to promote a more balanced "both sides are bad" narrative?
-
Even the “experts” agree that the evidence points to Ukraine. You’re a conspiracy theorist.
They don't agree on that, but they do agree the Russians blew up the dam. I'm conspiracy theorist...and you're not. Is this April Fool's day?
-
Civil War is about to break out between the Wagner Group and the Ministry of Defense. This could be the beginning of the end, for the Russians.
-
Civil War is about to break out between the Wagner Group and the Ministry of Defense. This could be the beginning of the end, for the Russians.
It would be nice, but we’ve been hearing that it’s the beginning of the end for 2 years now.
-
It would be nice, but we’ve been hearing that it’s the beginning of the end for 2 years now.
No we have not. This is recent (last month or so).
-
No we have not. This is recent (last month or so).
First it was Putin is sick and dying. Then it was the Russian military is in shambles, and now it’s this. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
-
First it was Putin is sick and dying. Then it was the Russian military is in shambles, and now it’s this. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
What on Earth are you talking about?
I said Russia may be on the brink of Civil War. Putin being "sick" or the Russian military "being in shambles" is not a civil war.
At any rate, LUKASHENKO and his entire family have allegedly fled Belarus, and are rumoured to be staying in Turkey.
-
Shady gets upset when you discredit Russia in any way.
-
I have no doubt the Ukrainians are doing all kinds of terrible things to the Russians who invaded them.
Sorry but shady has a point here. You can't believe news that comes out of this conflict, and indeed you were told that Putin was dying.
That said, it does seem like something is happening.
-
Yes, up is down and you can't believe anything, so long as it's not what you want to believe.
"I was told" he had cancer? Who told me? The US government has always said they have no information to confirm that. There are rumors he is undergoing chemo. I hope it's true, but there has been no MSM confirmation other than the open reporting of a rumour. Don't be confused like shady.
-
Yes, up is down and you can't believe anything, so long as it's not what you want to believe.
"I was told" he had cancer? Who told me? The US government has always said they have no information to confirm that. There are rumors he is undergoing chemo. I hope it's true, but there has been no MSM confirmation other than the open reporting of a rumour. Don't be confused like shady.
The same people who told me.. I'm recalling MSM but let's see what Google says..
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-putin-treated-cancer-april-us-intelligence-report-says-1710357
-
https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russias-vladimir-putin-ill-with-blood-cancer-secret-recording/amp/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-war-ending-putin-is-sick-with-cancer/ar-AA1aEk3n
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/vladimir-putins-health-dramatically-deteriorating-impacting-judgment-says-analyst/news-story/eb2294eb31cbd85b892d2150d146b9a8?amp
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/03/13/cnni-chance-putin-health-rumors.cnn
-
Now the CIA director went on the records and indicated that these were all false, and CNN featured that. But why were they reporting rumors?
My point is that at the outside of such conflicts there is usually a lot of false reporting
-
Because the rumours (still) might be true. You report them but make clear they are unsubstantiated. That's what they did. Unfortunately people with low reading skills often don't read past the headlines and don't get all the information.
-
The difference is the Wagner rebellion isn't being reported as a rumour. And nobody but shady is denying it's happening.
-
Some reports indicate that the Wagner Group has reached Moscow. Most of the Russian Army is tied up in southern Ukraine. The Kremlin could fall by the end of the weekend.
-
Because the rumours (still) might be true. You report them but make clear they are unsubstantiated. That's what they did. Unfortunately people with low reading skills often don't read past the headlines and don't get all the information.
But ... reporting the rumours is not something they do all the time ...
-
Some reports indicate that the Wagner Group has reached Moscow. Most of the Russian Army is tied up in southern Ukraine. The Kremlin could fall by the end of the weekend.
That's dangerous stuff.
-
What an anticlimax. Everyone is going home.
How boring...
-
What an anticlimax. Everyone is going home.
How boring...
It was an exciting 10 minutes though.
-
What an anticlimax. Everyone is going home.
How boring...
The military industrial complex won’t let the war end. There’s too much money to be made. How’s the pentagon going to justify multi-billion dollar “accounting errors”.
-
The military industrial complex won’t let the war end. There’s too much money to be made. How’s the pentagon going to justify multi-billion dollar “accounting errors”.
This was the Russian Civil War. It only started yesterday. The Pentagon didn't have a chance to make any money on it.
-
Not yet.
-
Maybe Putin will finally have the good sense to resign.
-
Aw ol' shady is back 😘
-
Lamest coup attempt since Jan. 6.
-
The only thing that makes sense to me is that he was sick of it and took a giant bribe to f*** off.
-
The only thing that makes sense to me is that he was sick of it and took a giant bribe to f*** off.
The only thing I can think of, is that Lukashenko is terrified of the inevitable revolt against his government, and has invited the Wagner Group to Belarus to prevent dissent. Either that, or the Russians will try to open a second front north of Kiev, however this appears unlikely.
-
When it comes back either you can the best analysis of the Wagner rebellion I've read yet.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/06/putin-russian-coup-over-prigozhin-wagner/674522/
I read about its leader, former convict turned caterer?
You can't make this stuff up..
-
They just moved a bunch of nukes to Belarus. If Wagner guy took control of them and launched them on Kyiv, Russia now has plausible deniability that it was their fault.
-
I had no idea that Russia could even do that, without repercussions from the West.
This is really going to inflame Polish-Belorussian tensions. The Poles are just dying for any reason to march into Belarus, and develop a second front with Russia. There is no chance the nuclear weapons are used, so I see it for what it is- a game of "chicken" Putin is trying to play with NATP.
-
I doubt the Poles will be marching into Belarus anytime soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65932700
-
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/06/25/the-meaning-of-prigozhins-short-lived-mutiny
The Economist.
tldr -> It will be harder to fight, harder to win for Putin. He had to let a major foe go, and looks weak now.
-
[attachimg=1]
-
I remember when you were an exuberant neo-con. Glad to see you followed my counsel and realized you were being stupid and gullible
-
I remember when you were an exuberant neo-con. Glad to see you followed my counsel and realized you were being stupid and gullible
What's very funny is that it had nothing to do with him engaging in any self-reflection; the media that tells him what to think shifted its views and he just went along with it like a drone.
-
I remember when you were an exuberant neo-con. Glad to see you followed my counsel and realized you were being stupid and gullible
You seemed to have learned nothing over the last many years. In fact, you participate in it now. You cheer it ion.
-
You seemed to have learned nothing over the last many years. In fact, you participate in it now. You cheer it ion.
There's no inconsistency between opposing imperial wars of aggression in 2003 and opposing imperial wars of aggression in 2022.
-
Biden’s escalating the war again. This time sending cluster bombs.
https://youtu.be/dU3nPZhrQug
-
Got your talking points, Vlad?
-
Got your talking points, Vlad?
Yes, acknowledging reality is a talking point from Vlad now.
-
Weird how your reality always corresponds in lockstep with Vlad's talking points. Quite a coincidence.
-
Weird how your reality always corresponds in lockstep with Vlad's talking points. Quite a coincidence.
https://youtu.be/6uXn-7YmlJQ
-
But CTV doesn't always correspond in lockstep with Russian talking points. Only you do.
-
But CTV doesn't always correspond in lockstep with Russian talking points. Only you do.
Democrats come out against Biden’s escalation.
[attachimg=1]
-
Democrats aren't always in lockstep with Putin talking points. Only you guys are
-
I doubt the Poles will be marching into Belarus anytime soon.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65932700
Can I send this to @badwartakes Twitter account?
-
Democrats aren't always in lockstep with Putin talking points. Only you guys are
Why did you call it a Vlad talking point? Can you ever think for yourself? Or so you need Democrats to give you permission on what to think about something?
-
Because anything that hurts Russia is criticized as "escalating the war"? The one thing that will de-escalate the war is Russia leaving Ukraine.
-
Why did you call it a Vlad talking point? Can you ever think for yourself? Or so you need Democrats to give you permission on what to think about something?
You realize that you just referenced the democrats criticizing the "escalation", right?
-
Welp
Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin 'on board' crashed Russian plane
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66599733)
-
Welp
Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin 'on board' crashed Russian plane
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66599733)
Well, that didn't take long.
Trump must be green with envy!
-
Well, that didn't take long.
Trump must be green with envy!
So what happens now with the Wagner Group? Will there be retaliation, or civil unrest in Russia?
-
Just like many other high-profiled Russians in recent months, Prigozhin died from a high fall
On that note, did anyone happen to see Tucker Carlson's interview with disgraced (and pro-Russian tankie) Douglas MacGregor yesterday, going on about how Ukraine is "losing badly" in this War, and they should surrender, since a Russian victory is inevitable? They also went on to demonize NATO, and blame them for the conflict yet again.
How do these people live with themselves?
-
So what happens now with the Wagner Group? Will there be retaliation, or civil unrest in Russia?
Putin will install someone to run it, most likely.
-
So what happens now with the Wagner Group? Will there be retaliation, or civil unrest in Russia?
The Wagner Group are mercenaries. They will do what whoever is paying them tells them to do.
I never read that Prigozhin enjoyed any fierce loyalty from his charges.
-
Putin will install someone to run it, most likely.
There is little chance this happens. The Wagner group consists of tens of thousands of disenfranchised soldiers, critical of Putin. They will likely cease to exist, rather than have a Kremlin-appointed leader.
-
There is little chance this happens. The Wagner group consists of tens of thousands of disenfranchised soldiers, critical of Putin. They are not going to go down without a fight.
They are not going to fight for anyone. They were part of Wagner because it paid better than being a cog in the ramshackle Russian army, or because they got criminal pardons. Wagner subverted by Putin may as well just be a penal battalion, and they all know that. The group will fizzle apart and die, barring something crazy.
-
I was half expecting shady to say blaming Putin for his death without evidence is akin to fascism. 😂
-
A great day to be Ukrainian. Not only were the leaders of the Wagner group assassinated, but Ukraine marked their independence day by successfully completing an operation, which saw a Russian port attacked in Crimea. The Ukrainians are really pushing hard in the south, and have penetrated some Russian defense lines.
-
I was half expecting shady to say blaming Putin for his death without evidence is akin to fascism. 😂
Nope. I can actually be objective on this topic, unlike some people in this forum. It’s fairly obvious that Putin probably had something to do with the “plane crash”. Just like Ukraine and/or it’s allies problem had something to do with the nord stream pipeline explosion.
-
Not every response needs to be a whataboutism.
-
Not every response needs to be a whataboutism.
Objectivity shouldn’t frighten you.
-
When I tried it, you screamed I was a fascist who was trying people and forgetting about "innocent until proven guilty".
I know. It sounds ridiculous, but that's what you are.
-
Huge news.
Poland says it will stop arming Ukraine
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html
-
Did that make your day?
-
Did that make your day?
Does it make you think at all? Or do you still blindly follow what the media and government tells you to think?
-
I don't blindly listen and follow what the Xi-Putin coalition tells me to think. I trust the liberal western democratic system more
-
I don't blindly listen and follow what the Xi-Putin coalition tells me to think. I trust the liberal western democratic system more
Well, at least you haven’t resorted to calling Poland Putin’s b***h yet.
-
No, but you certainly are.
-
No, but you certainly are.
Yes, that always absolves you from any critical thinking.
-
You’d think Zelensky would be more careful in keeping allies.
Never ‘insult Poles again,’ Poland’s prime minister tells Ukraine’s Zelensky
Poland’s Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has told Volodymyr Zelensky never to “insult Poles again” after the Ukrainian president suggested his neighbor was putting on a show over their disputes on grain exports.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/europe/morawiecki-ukraine-zelensky-insult-poland-intl-hnk/index.html
-
You’d think Zelensky would be more careful in keeping allies.
Never ‘insult Poles again,’ Poland’s prime minister tells Ukraine’s Zelenskyhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/europe/morawiecki-ukraine-zelensky-insult-poland-intl-hnk/index.html
You a pro-Russian biatch or something?
-
You a pro-Russian biatch or something?
Huh? Is CNN too for reporting the story? Or just me for acknowledging it? Oops, I forgot that when it comes to Ukraine, we don’t acknowledge or recognize negative news. Only acknowledging a certain view is what makes us better than places like Russia, right?
-
You’d think Zelensky would be more careful in keeping allies.
Never ‘insult Poles again,’ Poland’s prime minister tells Ukraine’s Zelenskyhttps://www.cnn.com/2023/09/23/europe/morawiecki-ukraine-zelensky-insult-poland-intl-hnk/index.html
Did he tell the one about the Polish submarine? Ridiculous bog people, the Poles.
-
Germany is back buying natural gas from Russia.
The German government is facing criticism over its energy ties as a taxpayer-backed company re-enters the liquefied natural gas trade with Russia.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-21/germany-faces-criticism-over-sefe-s-renewed-lng-trade-with-russia#xj4y7vzkg
-
Germany is back baby!
Puti thanks you for your pimpin'!
wait now! SEFE - that's the former unit of Russia's Gazprom... that Germany nationalized. Just for accuracy sake, that's LNG - makes a difference, right Shady?
but really Shady, c'mon! That LNG is targeted for India, not for EU countries, certainly not for German domestic use. Details, right Shady? But stay tuned - now that the criticism is flying, let's see if the contract (initiated prior to the nationalization) is actually fulfilled now...
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9wBzDVa8AAtQfM?format=jpg&name=large)
-
Would be curious to know what Ukraine;'s losses are after their failed counter offensive.
-
Would be curious to know what Ukraine;'s losses are after their failed counter offensive.
I'm not sure of one can call it a "failed " counter-offensive. Looks like this has been a war of attrition for the past year. I've heard Ukrainian casualties are 150,000-200,000.
-
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/0463c44e94465365299b16572f4f0fe34a083217/0_177_5200_3120/master/5200.jpg?width=620&dpr=1&s=none)
A United Nations investigation has found further evidence that Russian forces committed “indiscriminate attacks” and war crimes in Ukraine, including **** and the deportation of children to Russia.
“The collected evidence further shows that Russian authorities have committed the war crimes of wilful killing, torture, **** and other sexual violence, and the deportation of children to the Russian Federation,” a United Nations commission of inquiry on Ukraine said in a report submitted to the UN general assembly.
“The commission has recently documented attacks that affected civilian objects, such as residential buildings, a railway station, shops, and a warehouse for civilian use, leading to numerous casualties.”
Russia has repeatedly denied targeting civilians and has said Ukrainian allegations of war crimes are concocted.
The commission said it had focused its recent investigations on Kherson and Zaporizhzhia provinces and found “evidence that Russian authorities committed **** and sexual violence in a district of Kherson province”.
The commission investigated further reports regarding transfers of unaccompanied children by Russian authorities to the Russian Federation or to areas they occupied in Ukraine. It notably documented the transfer of 31 children from Ukraine to the Russian Federation in May 2022, and concluded that it was an unlawful deportation and a war crime.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_rZ8P-XoAA9TYV?format=jpg&name=small)
Incredible. Russia has been suffering 1,000 casualties per day this fall.
Most of the casualties are men 18-40. There are 150 million Russians. However 76 million are woman, and my guess is that 40 million are either children under 18, or people too old or cannot fight.
That leaves 35 million people ages 18-59.
My guess is that at least 13-15 million of those are 40-59
That pretty much leaves 20=22 million persons between 18-40.
322,000 casualties of war is greater than 1.5% of all men 18-40. By the end of 2024, Russia could conceivably lose over 500,000 soldiers, or over 2.5% of it's population that is in the prime of their life. That may not sound much, but considering 75% of the casualties did not perish in the war, and will be returning to Russia unable to enter the workforce, that is a massive strain on their economy.
-
Why would anyone stay in Russia..
-
Why would anyone stay in Russia..
There have been two million young Russians leaving the country over the past 2 years in fear of being drafted into the Russian army.
-
Why would anyone stay in Russia..
I think the more salient question is:
Why do we allow one man to do this?
We always do.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/UkNv8O7.jpg)
updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement (CUFTA) passed 2nd reading in the House thanks to support from Liberal, NDP, BQ & Green MPs... the entire Conservative caucus voted against it... again, PeePee et al voted against the updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement! PoiLIEvre stated he and his Conservative MPs could not support a deal that imposes a carbon tax on Ukraine.
note: the revised Canada-Ukraine trade treaty was signed by PM Trudeau and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, replacing the original treaty negotiated under former PM Harper’s Conservative government. Among other things, the updated agreement includes new chapters on investment and trade in services.
per G&M reporting:
Revised Canada-Ukraine free-trade agreement does not contain carbon tax, Ukraine says
PoiLIEvre insisted the new trade deal with Kyiv would impose a damaging carbon tax on Ukraine. We voted against Justin Trudeau forcing a carbon tax into that pre-existing agreement, he told reporters.
{per Ukrainian embassy spokesperson Marianna Kulava} The Ukrainian embassy in Canada said Thursday the revised trade deal contains no specific measures to decrease greenhouse gas emissions. The “modernized CUFTA does not include any specific instruments on decreasing carbon footprints, including specific taxation instruments.”
The text of the new trade deal does not commit either Canada or Ukraine to a carbon tax, also known as a levy on fossil fuels. It says both sides are expected “to promote carbon pricing and measures to mitigate carbon leakage risks.”
-
I think the more salient question is:
Why do we allow one man to do this?
We always do.
Yes, Ovechkin has gone too far this time.
-
"Holodomor Memorial Day is a terrible reminder that russia for centuries have been turning food into weapon.
90 years ago, the Stalin's regime has committed an act of genocide against the Ukrainian people. Between 1932 and 1933, millions of our people died of a man-made famine. The memory of those innocent victims lives on in our hearts.
Today, russia continues the Stalinist tradition. They are destroying our granaries, elevators, and ports and attacking ships with food in the Black Sea.
Thanks to the bravery of the Ukrainian Defence Forces, we are squeezing the Russian fleet from the Black Sea. Thanks to the help of partners, our air defence units are covering the infrastructure where the grain corridor begins. We are doing everything so that the horrors of the Holodomors, which Ukrainians experienced, do not affect anyone on earth.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_xzJwOXgAAWO6r?format=jpg&name=small)
-
(https://i.imgur.com/UkNv8O7.jpg)
updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement (CUFTA) passed 2nd reading in the House thanks to support from Liberal, NDP, BQ & Green MPs... the entire Conservative caucus voted against it... again, PeePee et al voted against the updated Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement! PoiLIEvre stated he and his Conservative MPs could not support a deal that imposes a carbon tax on Ukraine.
note: the revised Canada-Ukraine trade treaty was signed by PM Trudeau and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, replacing the original treaty negotiated under former PM Harper’s Conservative government. Among other things, the updated agreement includes new chapters on investment and trade in services.
per G&M reporting:
Revised Canada-Ukraine free-trade agreement does not contain carbon tax, Ukraine says
PoiLIEvre insisted the new trade deal with Kyiv would impose a damaging carbon tax on Ukraine. We voted against Justin Trudeau forcing a carbon tax into that pre-existing agreement, he told reporters.
{per Ukrainian embassy spokesperson Marianna Kulava} The Ukrainian embassy in Canada said Thursday the revised trade deal contains no specific measures to decrease greenhouse gas emissions. The “modernized CUFTA does not include any specific instruments on decreasing carbon footprints, including specific taxation instruments.”
The text of the new trade deal does not commit either Canada or Ukraine to a carbon tax, also known as a levy on fossil fuels. It says both sides are expected “to promote carbon pricing and measures to mitigate carbon leakage risks.”
geezaz! Oh my - when PeePee loses Robert Fife:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_0r0SzaQAAiJU-?format=jpg&name=small)
-
Wow Pierre Poilievre lying and saying stuff that he doesn't believe. Shocker.
-
Once again I’m proven right. Remember when this was Russian talking points not that long ago? You guys have to learn not to get spoon fed by the mainstream media all the time.
Richard Haass: We Need To "Lower Our Goals" In Ukraine, "Let's Have 80% Of The Country Saved"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/11/21/richard_haass_we_need_to_lower_our_goals_in_ukraine_be_happy_with_protecting_80_of_the_country.html
-
Once again I’m proven right. Remember when this was Russian talking points not that long ago? You guys have to learn not to get spoon fed by the mainstream media all the time.
Richard Haass: We Need To "Lower Our Goals" In Ukraine, "Let's Have 80% Of The Country Saved"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/11/21/richard_haass_we_need_to_lower_our_goals_in_ukraine_be_happy_with_protecting_80_of_the_country.html
Proven right about what? We’ve always known that you are a committed appeaser.
-
Surprising he's even taking Israel's side given his commitment to the Russia/China/Iran alliance.
-
Surprising he's even taking Israel's side given his commitment to the Russia/China/Iran alliance.
I don’t think that’s what it’s about. It’s much simpler: the people he reads online tell him to be anti-Ukraine and pro-Israel and he just does it.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_3vQedXIAAFPoU?format=jpg&name=small)
-
G&M's Chase:
(https://i.imgur.com/KRrWmIq.png)
-
G&M's Chase:
(https://i.imgur.com/KRrWmIq.png)
This is really going to be a very frustrating election if things don't change. I may ahve to hold my breath, and vote for the party I hate the least.
-
It's a weird time when the CPC, as a matter of ideology, will not accept any attempt to help make the planet habitable for future generations.
They may be doing well now in the polls, but once people are actually paying attention, they're going to be appalled
-
geezaz! Oh my - when PeePee loses Robert Fife:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_0r0SzaQAAiJU-?format=jpg&name=small)
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1730057117506441216/vid/avc1/838x452/fBsixBRJfuRosY_x.mp4?tag=14): He outright lied to Canadians in saying that this trade deal was going to impose a carbon tax on Ukraine
-
oh my! Conservatives are howling cause PM Trudeau referred to 'some of them' as MAGA Conservatives... among, ahem... other things:
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1729702009547165696/vid/avc1/720x1280/G-o6hmtNWs4fqno-.mp4?tag=14): Conservatives following the MAGA Republican playbook - Trump-style politics
The real story is the rise of a right-wing, American MAGA-influenced thinking that has made Canadian Conservatives — who used to be among the strongest defenders of Ukraine, I'll admit it — turn their backs on something Ukraine needs in its hour of need.
The push to withdraw support for Ukraine now rising among Trump conservatives in the U.S. and in certain corners of Europe is based on Russian disinformation and propaganda.
All Canadians should be concerned when the Conservative Party of Canada and Pierre Poilievre turn their backs on history, turn their backs on our friends and allies, turn their backs on the international rules-based order and our support for the UN charter on territorial integrity.
-
oh my! Conservatives are howling cause PM Trudeau referred to 'some of them' as MAGA Conservatives... among, ahem... other things:
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1729702009547165696/vid/avc1/720x1280/G-o6hmtNWs4fqno-.mp4?tag=14): Conservatives following the MAGA Republican playbook - Trump-style politics
LOL, Trudeau must've looked at the latest polls, he's getting really desperate!
-
This is really going to be a very frustrating election if things don't change. I may ahve to hold my breath, and vote for the party I hate the least.
Of course Ukraine is going to side the Trudeau. They wouldn't want to disrupt their endless money train from the Trudeau government. We've all seen the language in the agreement that pertains to carbon pricing etc. But yes, let's pretend this is important issue to voters. Right up their with the cost of housing eh! LOL
-
LOL, Trudeau must've looked at the latest polls, he's getting really desperate!
Why is that desperate? Are you saying there's something wrong with MAGA politics?
-
LOL, Trudeau must've looked at the latest polls, he's getting really desperate!
as you lamely deflect, the only desperation is yours! You're so desperate to ignore Putin asset PoiLIEvre's lies claiming a carbon tax exists within the {updated} Canada-Ukraine free-trade agreement. Oh my - MAGA Conservatives!
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1729702009547165696/vid/avc1/720x1280/G-o6hmtNWs4fqno-.mp4?tag=14): Conservatives following the MAGA Republican playbook - Trump-style politics
-
Why is that desperate? Are you saying there's something wrong with MAGA politics?
He sounds like the journalist Pierre slayed while eating his apple a few weeks ago. "Some would say you're taking a page out of Trump's book". Anything to deflect from how he broke the country. Guess what Trudeau? Nobody f**king cares.
-
as you lamely deflect, the only desperation is yours! You're so desperate to ignore Putin asset PoiLIEvre's lies claiming a carbon tax exists within the {updated} Canada-Ukraine free-trade agreement. Oh my - MAGA Conservatives!
video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1729702009547165696/vid/avc1/720x1280/G-o6hmtNWs4fqno-.mp4?tag=14): Conservatives following the MAGA Republican playbook - Trump-style politics
I had no idea MAGA was so concerned about carbon pricing in Ukraine. Can you provide an example? Junior tries to deflect to Ukraine because he still thinks that's a winner for him. He doesn't realize most of the public has moved on from that endless war, the new Afghanistan.
-
hey now Shady! Your Pimpin' for Vlad ain't easy... the waldo is here for you - please update your avatar! Carry on!
(https://i.imgur.com/W53wvFu.jpg)
-
in failing to support the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress calls out PoiLIEvre and his CPC MP caucus
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GARa4UlXgAAD7Yq?format=jpg)
-
in failing to support the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress calls out PoiLIEvre and his CPC MP caucus
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GARa4UlXgAAD7Yq?format=jpg)
Please Waldo, can you stop littering the topic with posts about the CPC over and over again? It was informative once, but you have pushed it off a cliff.
-
Please Waldo, can you stop littering the topic with posts about the CPC over and over again? It was informative once, but you have pushed it off a cliff.
c'mon coolio... pointedly, in war time, in regards Ukraine's economic resilience, are you suggesting the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement is not relative to this thread/topic?
-
oh my! Conservatives are howling cause PM Trudeau referred to 'some of them' as MAGA Conservatives... among, ahem... other things:
The real story is the rise of a right-wing, American MAGA-influenced thinking that has made Canadian Conservatives — who used to be among the strongest defenders of Ukraine, I'll admit it — turn their backs on something Ukraine needs in its hour of need.
The push to withdraw support for Ukraine now rising among Trump conservatives in the U.S. and in certain corners of Europe is based on Russian disinformation and propaganda.
All Canadians should be concerned when the Conservative Party of Canada and Pierre Poilievre turn their backs on history, turn their backs on our friends and allies, turn their backs on the international rules-based order and our support for the UN charter on territorial integrity.
related (reuters) video (https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/trudeau-blames-maga-for-sinking-ukraine-idRW086824112023RP1) highlighting PM Trudeau's assigned blame towards the rise of a right-wing, American MAGA-influenced thinking that has made Canadian Conservatives turn their backs on something Ukraine needs in its hour of need... while also mentioning Canada's latest contribution to Ukraine's defense effort - 11,000 assault rifles & 9 million rounds of ammunition
-
Please Waldo, can you stop littering the topic with posts about the CPC over and over again? It was informative once, but you have pushed it off a cliff.
Apparently waldo doesn’t understand that a trade deal doesn’t fall under the topic of the Ukraine/Russia war.
-
Apparently waldo doesn’t understand that a trade deal doesn’t fall under the topic of the Ukraine/Russia war.
apparently Shady (& Coolio) don't understand that a free trade agreement supporting the economic resilience of Ukraine is paramount to Ukraine's war effort!
-
Yes, Ovechkin has gone too far this time.
Coolio spam!
-
G&M's Chase:
(https://i.imgur.com/KRrWmIq.png)
This is really going to be a very frustrating election if things don't change. I may ahve to hold my breath, and vote for the party I hate the least.
c'mon Coolio - please stop the/your enabling of {alleged} spam!
-
is paramount to Ukraine's war effort!
Goebbels would be proud of this level of propaganda.
-
Goebbels would be proud of this level of propaganda.
a Coolio ruling please: is Shady's post spam or not spam - spam or not spam; what say you?
-
from the office of PM Trudeau - an extract from the Sept 2023 announcement:
Canada reaffirms our unwavering support for Ukraine for as long as it takes
To support Ukraine’s economy so it can withstand Russia’s unjustifiable invasion and continue supporting the people of Ukraine, now and into a future beyond Ukrainian victory:
• Canada will again provide substantial macro economic support in 2024;
• Prime Minister Trudeau and President Zelenskyy signed the modernized Canada-Ukraine Free Trade Agreement (CUFTA), which supports long-term security, stability, and economic development in Ukraine, while also ensuring high-quality market access terms for Canadian businesses participating in Ukraine’s economic recovery. This will create good, middle-class jobs in both of our countries.
Canada will stand with Ukraine with whatever it takes, for as long as it takes. As Ukrainians continue to fight for their freedom and their democracy, our support will be unequivocal until they are victorious. Slava Ukraini!
-
from the office of PM Trudeau - an extract from the Sept 2023 announcement:
Canada reaffirms our unwavering support for Ukraine for as long as it takes
It’s too bad that the Trudeau regime doesn’t care as much about Canadians as they do other countries. Endless money for Ukraine while there are record numbers using food banks here, and tent cities of homeless in every city in Canada.
-
It’s too bad that the Trudeau regime doesn’t care as much about Canadians as they do other countries. Endless money for Ukraine while there are record numbers using food banks here, and tent cities of homeless in every city in Canada.
Guy who calls government support for low income people "pathetic handouts" now implies the government should spend more money on low income people instead of helping Ukraine fight the invasion lol.
-
It’s too bad that the Trudeau regime doesn’t care as much about Canadians as they do other countries. Endless money for Ukraine while there are record numbers using food banks here, and tent cities of homeless in every city in Canada.
Who do you support more in the war: Ukraine or Russia?
-
Who do you support more in the war: Ukraine or Russia?
Unless one happens to be Russian, anyone not siding with the Ukrainians has a broken moral compass IMO.
-
Who do you support more in the war: Ukraine or Russia?
It's a lot more complicated than choosing sides like a sporting event. I support Ukraine's right to defend itself, but I also recognize Russia's view of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and the threatening of Nato expansion to it's borders, something that was promised wouldn't happen, as an existential treat. Unfortunately, Ukraine has been treated as tool by Nato post 2014, and by Russia pre 2014. They're essentially caught in the middle of a proxy war, with neither side caring at all about actual Ukrainians.
-
It's a lot more complicated than choosing sides like a sporting event. I support Ukraine's right to defend itself, but I also recognize Russia's view of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and the threatening of Nato expansion to it's borders, something that was promised wouldn't happen, as an existential treat.
Still going with that lie huh. One almost has to admire the brazenness with which you continue to peddle falsehoods long after they've been exposed as such.
-
Still going with that lie huh. One almost has to admire the brazenness with which you continue to peddle falsehoods long after they've been exposed as such.
Nothing I said was a lie. This war was completely avoidable, as outlined in the recent book of former defence secretary in the Obama administration, Robert Gates, as well as many others.
-
I support Ukraine's right to defend itself...
that's mighty big of you, hey Shady... but I don't read you're against the invading Russian aggressors!
tell us you accept Putin's invasion of a sovereign country, without actually saying you do!
but I also recognize Russia's view of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and the threatening of Nato expansion to it's borders, something that was promised wouldn't happen, as an existential treat.
=> '2014 coup'... you mean where a pro-Russian puppet was ousted; one who was regularly funnelling billions of dollars to Putin.
=> 'NATO expansion'... you mean those new member states that willingly joined NATO seeking protection from Russian domination, Russian aggression
yabut Shady, have you nothing to say about how you accept the Russian invasion... and annexation of Crimea?
-
It's a lot more complicated than choosing sides like a sporting event. I support Ukraine's right to defend itself, but I also recognize Russia's view of the 2014 coup in Ukraine, and the threatening of Nato expansion to it's borders, something that was promised wouldn't happen, as an existential treat. Unfortunately, Ukraine has been treated as tool by Nato post 2014, and by Russia pre 2014. They're essentially caught in the middle of a proxy war, with neither side caring at all about actual Ukrainians.
I would say that in the 21st Century, there has rarely been a more cut-and-dry example of who is right and who is wrong, as in the Ukraine-Russia situation. Historically. Russia has always persecuted Ukrainians, and conquered their territory multiple time. The Kremlin is constantly interfering in Ukrainian related issues, and just like Belarus, were doing everything possible to place a Kremlin friendly leader in the Ukraine, like they have done in other places like Belarus.
What is even worse, is the treaty Ukraine signed with Russia in 1996, exchanging Ukraine's nuclear arsenal and returning it to Russia, in exchange for Russia's promise to respect Ukrainian sovereignty, and not interfere in Ukrainian related affairs. The Russians have been the aggressors in this conflict going on 10 years. The Ukrainians have every right to defend themselves.
This kind of reminds me of when the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact in 1939, where the Soviets (Russians), invaded the Baltic Countries, Finland, and Poland after signing the non-aggression pact with Germany, allowing them to conquer other countries without German interference. It's just more Russian aggression towards weaker countries that the World has seen for the past 500 years. Destroying Russia, or having another country doing this by proxy, is in the best interest of North America and Europe.
-
Nothing I said was a lie. This war was completely avoidable, as outlined in the recent book of former defence secretary in the Obama administration, Robert Gates, as well as many others.
The part I bolded where you claim NATO promised not to expand to Russia's borders is a lie. It never happened, the claim has been thouroughly and repeatedly debunked.
-
The part I bolded where you claim NATO promised not to expand to Russia's borders is a lie. It never happened, the claim has been thouroughly and repeatedly debunked.
I've linked to direct documents that referenced the promise.
-
I've linked to direct documents that referenced the promise.
no! Said "promise" was verbal and never formalized into a treaty; more pointedly, it was with respect to the reunification of Germany... notwithstanding further NATO eastward expansion was inconceivable at the time, given the USSR still existed.
and again, since you're ignoring the waldo's first posting of the following, points to counter your Putin appeasement:
=> '2014 coup'... you mean where a pro-Russian puppet was ousted; one who was regularly funnelling billions of dollars to Putin.
=> 'NATO expansion'... you mean those new member states that willingly joined NATO seeking protection from Russian domination, Russian aggression
yabut Shady, have you nothing to say about how you accept the Russian invasion... and annexation of Crimea?
-
I've linked to direct documents that referenced the promise.
‘There was no promise not to enlarge NATO’
Robert Zoellick, the U.S. diplomat who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War, says Vladimir Putin’s claims about Ukraine are part of a disinformation campaign
Mar 16, 2022 By Jeff Neal
When President George H.W. Bush sat down with Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev to negotiate the peaceful end of the Cold War and the reunification of Germany, former Under Secretary of State Robert Zoellick ’81 was in the room where it happened.
During the 1990 summit, Zoellick says President Gorbachev accepted the idea of German unification within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, based on the principle that every country should freely choose its own alliances.
“I was in those meetings, and Gorbachev has [also] said there was no promise not to enlarge NATO,” Zoellick recalls. Soviet Foreign Minister, Eduard Shevardnadze, later president of Georgia, concurred, he says. Nor does the treaty on Germany’s unification include a limit on NATO enlargement. Those facts have undermined one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s justifications for invading Ukraine — that the United States had agreed that former Warsaw Pact nations would never become part of the North Atlantic security alliance.
Zoellick, a former deputy and undersecretary of state, deputy White House chief of staff, U.S. trade representative, and World Bank president, shared his recollections about the Cold War’s end and its ties to the ongoing war in Ukraine as part of a broader conversation with Harvard Law Today about the 75th anniversary of the Truman Doctrine, an American foreign policy aimed at containing Soviet expansion following World War II.
He is the author of “America in the Word: A History of U.S. Diplomacy and Foreign Policy.” An alumnus of both Harvard Law School and Harvard Kennedy School, where he is a senior fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Zoellick believes Putin’s false claim about NATO enlargement is part of a disinformation campaign by the former KGB agent to mask his true intentions.
Zoellick vividly recalls the White House meeting he attended nearly three decades ago in which Bush asked Gorbachev if he agreed with the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe principle that nations are free to ally with others as they see fit. When Gorbachev said yes, he says, the Soviet leader’s “own colleagues at the table visibly separated themselves.”
Sensing the import of the possible breakthrough, he says a colleague at the meeting, Robert Blackwill, sent him a note checking what they had heard and asking if they should ask Bush to repeat the question. “Gorbachev agreed again,” Zoellick recalls, to the principle that Germany could choose to enter NATO.
Putin does not see Ukraine as an independent and sovereign state … He believes that they are all Russians, living in a greater Russia.
“The reality was that, in 1989-90, most people, and certainly the Soviets, weren’t focusing on whether the Eastern European countries would become part of NATO,” Zoellick says. Knowing Soviet and Russian diplomacy, he believes Moscow would have demanded assurances in writing if it believed the U.S. had made such a promise. And even in 1996, when President Bill Clinton welcomed former Warsaw Pact nations to join NATO, he says that, “one of the German diplomats involved told me that as they discussed the enlargement with the Russians, no Russian raised the argument that there had been a promise not to enlarge.”
But if the West never gave the promise Putin has used to explain his decision to invade Ukraine, what does Zoellick think motivates the Russian president’s decision to inflict death and destruction on one of Russia’s nearest neighbors? “Putin does not see Ukraine as an independent and sovereign state,” he says. “He has a view of Russian history where the Rus [the medieval ancestors of the people who came to form Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine] began in Kyiv. He believes that they are all Russians, living in a greater Russia. And I think at age 69, Putin feels that this is a question not only of Russian history, but his place in Russian history.”
Zoellick says that when Putin’s earlier attacks in the Crimea and country’s eastern regions failed to halt Ukraine’s drift towards the West, the Russian leader believed he had no other choice but to invade. “That’s his motivation. And I think we need to be aware that he’s going to double down. The resilience and resolve of the Ukrainian people to resist has been a surprise to him and everybody else. I don’t think he’s going to ultimately be successful. In addition to today’s brutal battles, Russia faces a difficult occupation and insurgency, even if it can seize cities and territory.”
The experienced diplomat also credits Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky with rallying the Ukrainian people by refusing to flee Kyiv and through adept use of social media and language.
“We’re seeing that the skills that he developed as an entertainer and a communicator can be used in different ways, just as Ronald Reagan did,” he says. “It does raise a concern that, if something happens to Zelensky, what will that do to morale? Will he be a martyr or will his loss break the public will?”
The resilience and resolve of the Ukrainian people to resist has been a surprise to Putin and everybody else. I don’t think he’s going to ultimately be successful. In addition to today’s brutal battles, Russia faces a difficult occupation and insurgency, even if it can seize cities and territory.
Zoellick also notes that, as the war in Ukraine has garnered the world’s attention, many of the questions being asked today about the West’s relationship with Russia are similar to those he had dealt with at the end of the Cold War, including “Russia’s sense of whether it feels like a great power or threatened by NATO … those are the issues that are at very much at play in dealing with Ukraine.”
“Can Russia forge peaceful, constructive ties with the West?” he asks. “Failed economic and political reforms left Russia behind. Its economy depends on energy production. Putin played off public frustrations, but many Russians don’t want war and isolation.”
When thinking about global diplomacy and the factors that might have led to the Russian invasion, Zoellick harkens back to a comment made by his boss for eight years, James Baker, who served both as secretary of state and the treasury, as well as White House chief of staff: “As you address the problems of one era, you’re often planting the seeds for the next set of challenges. History doesn’t stop.”
More than 30 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Zoellick says the legacy of decisions made at the end of the Cold War are echoing throughout Europe today: “Would we keep NATO alive? Would it enlarge into Central and Eastern Europe? How far? What would be the effects on Russia of its loss of empire?”
“That leaves the question of whether the U.S. could have avoided Russia’s turn,” he says. The answer, he believes, depended on Russia’s choices. “Certainly, we wouldn’t have wanted East and West Germany to remain divided.” The related questions are many: What if Eastern European countries had been barred from joining NATO and therefore remained, like Ukraine, outside the western security umbrella? And how would they react to the Russian threat and being left again as “lands between” Germany and Russia? The U.S. and Europe, he notes, offered Russia partnerships, but Russia felt humiliated by the loss of its empire.
“I was the U.S. negotiator for German unification,” he says. “We wanted to make sure that a democratic Germany was unified in NATO. I don’t think anybody would think that’s a bad idea today. And if anything, we’re now seeing Germany stepping up to a security role for NATO and the European Union.”
In 1989-90, Zoellick was also focused on the idea that Poland — long subject to invasions by Russia and Germany — should be able to eventually join NATO. He made sure that the treaty on German unification kept that possibility open. “Given Putin’s behavior, can you imagine what the effect would be on Poland today if it weren’t in NATO? I think it’s wise to have Poland and Germany on the same side. The Baltic countries were a tougher choice for NATO, not because they don’t deserve the security, but they’re very hard to defend.” Nevertheless, he adds, because the Baltic states are now NATO members, he believes we must “take serious steps to defend them from both direct and hybrid threats.”
Ultimately, he believes supporting Ukraine economically and supplying arms for self-defense, rather than opening the potential for eventual NATO membership, would have been a better approach than the one the West has taken in recent years.
“If NATO gives a security guarantee, it has to mean it,” he says. “It has to be serious about providing deterrence under Article Five of the North Atlantic Alliance treaty. … I support Ukraine’s economic reforms and its democracy, [but] I doubted that the American people were ultimately willing to fight for Ukraine. The worst thing to do was to suggest Ukraine might join NATO, but without a serious pathway to membership.”
The U.S., he adds, “isn’t going to defend everybody all the time, everywhere in the world; we have to know what we will and won’t defend. Having said that, I think the Obama and Trump administrations erred by not giving more military support to Ukraine. I believe that we should help the Ukrainians defend themselves. But those are the exact issues debated today.”[/i]
source: https://hls.harvard.edu/today/there-was-no-promise-not-to-enlarge-nato/
There you have it. It's all Russian misinformation, and Putin is a liar.
-
no! Said "promise" was verbal and never formalized into a treaty; more pointedly, it was with respect to the reunification of Germany... notwithstanding further NATO eastward expansion was inconceivable at the time, given the USSR still existed.
and again, since you're ignoring the waldo's first posting of the following, points to counter your Putin appeasement:
There was no verbal promise. Gorbachev and the Soviets never objected to NATO expansion in the first place. Not even in 1996, when Poland and other Eastern European nations began to apply for NATO membership, did Yeltsin ever object to this.
-
There you have it. It's all Russian misinformation, and Putin is a liar.
geezaz Coolio! No need to post the whole gdamn article... provide the link and quote the salient points! Carry on, hey!
-
no! Said "promise" was verbal and never formalized into a treaty; more pointedly, it was with respect to the reunification of Germany... notwithstanding further NATO eastward expansion was inconceivable at the time, given the USSR still existed.
There was no verbal promise.
and yet... as can be found many times over: in a discussion on the status of a reunified Germany, it is stated that US secretary of state Baker made a verbal commitment to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany - a promise later repeated in a subsequent Brussels speech by NATO’s secretary general. And again, a somewhat moot point given the USSR still existed at that point.
-
I've linked to direct documents that referenced the promise.
The LA Times opinion page is not a "direct document".
And it's funny how you keep talking about a promise that was never made to a state that does not exist while ignoring the fact that Russian literally broke its 1996 treaty with UYkraine by invading in 2014.
-
The United States knew that NATO expansion to Ukraine would lead to war.
This Leaked Diplomatic Cable From 2008 Foreshadowed Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine
Detailing the possibility of admitting Ukraine into NATO on Feb. 1, 2008, then-U.S. Ambassador William Burns wrote that such a move would touch "a raw nerve" with Russia that would engender "serious concerns about the consequences of stability in the region."
https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-5?amp
-
You're still trying to blame the invasion on the West? How patriotic of you.
-
and yet... as can be found many times over: in a discussion on the status of a reunified Germany, it is stated that US secretary of state Baker made a verbal commitment to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany - a promise later repeated in a subsequent Brussels speech by NATO’s secretary general. And again, a somewhat moot point given the USSR still existed at that point.
The US doesn't have the right to speak for all of NATO, nor did it have the right to unilaterally prevent the reunification of Germany. In 2008 the Secretary General of NATO was Dutch, from 1988 to 1994 it was a German The only way the US could stop an applicant country would be do veto all the other members.
-
The US doesn't have the right to speak for all of NATO
Some would disagree as the US provides the most funding to NATO, by far. The funding imbalance was even worse in the past.
Regardless, don’t you think Russia would consider something from the Secretary of State, as a significant and carrying considerable weight?
-
You're still trying to blame the invasion on the West? How patriotic of you.
I’m simply stating a fact. Patriotism is irrelevant to whether something is true or not.
-
Dec 6 - NYT: Republicans Block Aid to Ukraine, Jeopardizing Its Fight Against Russia
At a perilous time in the conflict, with Kyiv’s counteroffensive failing to meet its objectives and Russia’s forces on the offensive, the vote spotlighted waning support in Congress for backing Ukraine in the war, and left the fate of the effort uncertain.
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
(https://i.imgur.com/CzOfHgA.png)
-
I’m simply stating a fact. Patriotism is irrelevant to whether something is true or not.
Yes, it's a fact that you guys are on Russia's side. I'm guessing it's why peepee can't get security clearance too.
-
I’m simply stating a fact. Patriotism is irrelevant to whether something is true or not.
Since when have you been interested in facts on this topic? ::)
-
Dec 6 - NYT: Republicans Block Aid to Ukraine, Jeopardizing Its Fight Against Russia
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
Stop hiding behind McCarthyism. It’s pathetic and abhorrent.
-
Yes, it's a fact that you guys are on Russia's side. I'm guessing it's why peepee can't get security clearance too.
Acknowledging facts isn’t being on one side or another. Only to zealots.
-
Acknowledging facts isn’t being on one side or another.
is this YOU acknowledging the facts that the U.S. GOP & PoiLIEvre/CPC are not supporting the Ukraine war effort; other than MAGAsee - MAGAdo, why is PeePee not supporting Ukraine, hey Shady? Why?
-
Some would disagree as the US provides the most funding to NATO, by far. The funding imbalance was even worse in the past.
Regardless, don’t you think Russia would consider something from the Secretary of State, as a significant and carrying considerable weight?
Turkey managed to keep Sweden out until its concerns were addressed. Every member country has to approve any new member. I don't know what Russia thinks but they have certainly kicked over a hornets nest with their dumb assed invasion. They have done more to strengthen NATO than anything since the Cold War.
All the invasion of Ukraine has done is highlight the reasons Eastern European countries felt it necessary to join NATO and they were right.
-
The United States knew that NATO expansion to Ukraine would lead to war.
This Leaked Diplomatic Cable From 2008 Foreshadowed Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-5?amp
Ukraine isn’t a NATO member.
-
is this YOU acknowledging the facts that the U.S. GOP & PoiLIEvre/CPC are not supporting the Ukraine war effort; other than MAGAsee - MAGAdo, why is PeePee not supporting Ukraine, hey Shady? Why?
Complete nonsense. Supporting Ukraine would have been to not purposely go down a policy road that you knew would lead to conflict. There are 100,000+ Ukrainians dead because of you and you ilk and their game of chicken with Putin, who everyone agrees is at the very least borderline crazy. Regardless, supporting unlimited taxpayer dollars to fund an unlimited war, with no off ramp or even the desire or effort to find an off ramp is at best illogical and out of touch with Canadians.
-
All the invasion of Ukraine has done is highlight the reasons Eastern European countries felt it necessary to join NATO and they were right.
But Ukraine still isn’t in NATO. And the so-called need to admit Ukraine is illogical as the invasion was a result of NATO expanding beyond its original mission, and purposely and knowingly creating what Russia would consider an existential threat resulting in said invasion. It’s a circular argument. Do you think for instance the United States would allow the equivalent of the Warsaw Pact to expand into Mexico, on its border? The Cuban missile crisis almost started world war 3 and that was just involving missiles in Cuba.
-
But Ukraine still isn’t in NATO. And the so-called need to admit Ukraine is illogical as the invasion was a result of NATO expanding beyond its original mission, and purposely and knowingly creating what Russia would consider an existential threat resulting in said invasion. It’s a circular argument. Do you think for instance the United States would allow the equivalent of the Warsaw Pact to expand into Mexico, on its border? The Cuban missile crisis almost started world war 3 and that was just involving missiles in Cuba.
The invasion is a result of Putin wanting the Russian Empire back. Eastern European countries joining NATO were a result of Putin's imperial ambitions. Those countries had already spent decades under the Soviet boot and aren't about to let history repeat itself.
Why would Mexico or Canada join any anti US alliance unless they were afraid of the US invading them? The fact that they don't just highlights the reason why those former Warsaw Pact countries do want to join NATO. Joining NATO is voluntary, joining the Warsaw Pact was not.
-
But Ukraine still isn’t in NATO. And the so-called need to admit Ukraine is illogical as the invasion was a result of NATO expanding beyond its original mission, and purposely and knowingly creating what Russia would consider an existential threat resulting in said invasion.
NATO did nothing to provoke this invasion. That is just Kremlin BS propaganda.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
-
But Ukraine still isn’t in NATO. And the so-called need to admit Ukraine is illogical as the invasion was a result of NATO expanding beyond its original mission, and purposely and knowingly creating what Russia would consider an existential threat resulting in said invasion. It’s a circular argument. Do you think for instance the United States would allow the equivalent of the Warsaw Pact to expand into Mexico, on its border? The Cuban missile crisis almost started world war 3 and that was just involving missiles in Cuba.
Speaking of circular arguments, Poland is NATO so by taking Ukraine, Russia is bordering NATO.
-
...a policy road that you knew would lead to conflict.
you mean like the illegal Russian invasion & annexation of Crimea... like that?
-
Speaking of circular arguments, Poland is NATO so by taking Ukraine, Russia is bordering NATO.
Ukraine also borders Romania, Hungary and Slovakia. All NATO members.
-
Ukraine also borders Romania, Hungary and Slovakia. All NATO members.
Thanks I knew there’d be more but i was just going with off the top of my head.
The whole argument of not wanting to border NATO doesn’t hold any water at all. Shady needs to stop parroting Kremlin talking points without consideration
-
Thanks I knew there’d be more but i was just going with off the top of my head.
The whole argument of not wanting to border NATO doesn’t hold any water at all. Shady needs to stop parroting Kremlin talking points without consideration
By taking Ukraine and Finland joining, Russia would then have 5 more NATO countries on its border.
-
By taking Ukraine and Finland joining, Russia would then have 5 more NATO countries on its border.
With the Russian military decimated by the Ukraine War, I could see Poland alone defeating Russia alone. The Poles beat the Russians under similar circumstances 100 years ago.
-
If having NATO members on its borders is an existential threat to Russia, why didn’t it invade the Baltic States when they joined in 2004?
-
Shady.... you went suddenly quiet on this thread. What happened?
-
Watching Finland's foreign minister this morning on closing their Russian border. Unlike Shady, Finland has no illusions about Putin's ambitions.
-
I can see why they need so many cops on the bloated payroll. It takes more than 30 of them to beat a guy nowadays because they need 25 officers just to block the cameras.
oops that post was meant for the Israel-Hamas section.
Meanwhile.....Zelensky visits Argentina, and is treated like a rock star:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1733981745714786357
Not only that, but look at this seating arrangement at the Argentinian Parliament. Orban, that wanna-be Putin sitting against the wall, next to Zelenskyy. lol.
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1733967086743912788
-
Complete nonsense. Supporting Ukraine would have been to not purposely go down a policy road that you knew would lead to conflict. There are 100,000+ Ukrainians dead because of you and you ilk and their game of chicken with Putin, who everyone agrees is at the very least borderline crazy. Regardless, supporting unlimited taxpayer dollars to fund an unlimited war, with no off ramp or even the desire or effort to find an off ramp is at best illogical and out of touch with Canadians.
https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1733892421895746022?s=20
-
https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1733892421895746022?s=20
I don't get why Viktor Orbán is against Ukraine. I mean they share the same history as other Eastern Europe for the past 100 years. Both were ruled by Russia for 45 years. Hungary had an uprising crushed by the Soviet Union in 1956. Like other Eastern Europe nations, they had no desire to return to the times of the 20th century.
Is this sentiment popular with the civilians of Hungary?
-
Is this sentiment popular with the civilians of Hungary?
really? That's your question? Do far-right authoritarian leaders care about, 'popular citizen sentiment'?
Aug, 2022 CPAC: keynote speaker Viktor Orban --- Autocratic Hungarian leader Orban hailed by US conservatives (https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-trump-dallas-marjorie-taylor-greene-3c5a43ea6cd3a3472a05f48d3b527a76)
Hungary’s autocratic Prime Minister Viktor Orban urged cheering American conservatives on Thursday to “take back the institutions,” stick to hardline stances on gay rights and immigration and fight for the next U.S. presidential election as a pivotal moment for their beliefs.
The exuberant cheers and standing ovations at the Conservative Political Action Conference for the far-right prime minister, who has been criticized for undermining his own country’s democratic institutions, demonstrated the growing embrace between Orban and Republicans in the U.S.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/LakZAN4.png)
-
newly declassified us intelligence assessment: 315k russian personnel killed/injured since start of the war in ukraine
which is 87% (!!!) of moscow’s prewar force
source: https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1734657796573221262
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBIGkw4WgAEIYUu?format=jpg&name=small)
-
newly declassified us intelligence assessment: 315k russian personnel killed/injured since start of the war in ukraine
which is 87% (!!!) of moscow’s prewar force
source: https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1734657796573221262
That's insane.
-
Also probably exaggerated/inaccurate, though it's undoubtedly quite bad.
What was previously considered the world's second strongest military has been revealed as a poorly-led and poorly equipped mob of peasant soldiers.
-
That's insane.
What's insane is to believe these figures. It's insane to believe anything you hear from Ukraine or Russia.
-
Also probably exaggerated/inaccurate, though it's undoubtedly quite bad.
What was previously considered the world's second strongest military has been revealed as a poorly-led and poorly equipped mob of peasant soldiers.
You guys are so easily manipulated by propaganda.
-
What's insane is to believe these figures. It's insane to believe anything you hear from Ukraine or Russia.
Sorry Russia paid me to say that.
Also, Edward Snowden is not a Russian asset.
-
Sorry Russia paid me to say that.
Also, Edward Snowden is not a Russian asset.
Russia's just about to fold right? That's been the so-called consensus for like 2 years now. Putin's near death right? That's also been the consensus for 2 years now. I can't believe you people fall for this stuff.
-
Our resident Russia cheerleader sounds particularly sad today. I wonder why that is. 😂
-
Our resident Russia cheerleader sounds particularly sad today. I wonder why that is. 😂
Nope. I've already stated, I don't believe anything that comes out of Russia related to this war. Same goes with Ukraine. It's impossible to determine what is actually true. You guys still don't seem to understand that.
-
But you believe everything Israel tells you without question. Weird
-
But you believe everything Israel tells you without question. Weird
It depends on the circumstances, but I definitely don't believe anything out of them or Hamas in terms of casualty numbers, etc.
-
Except when you do and repeat Israeli (or Russian) talking points verbatim.
-
Thw World has to provide Ukraine with the equipment to finish off the Russians and drive them out of their territory now. The longer we wait, the more likely public opinion will shift against giving Ukraine anything, and abandoning it. Russia is on the ropes, and we just need to provide Ukrainians the ability to deliver the knockout punch. 325,000 Russian casualties. I can see Russia imploding once that figure hits 500,000.
-
Dec 6 - NYT: Republicans Block Aid to Ukraine, Jeopardizing Its Fight Against Russia
At a perilous time in the conflict, with Kyiv’s counteroffensive failing to meet its objectives and Russia’s forces on the offensive, the vote spotlighted waning support in Congress for backing Ukraine in the war, and left the fate of the effort uncertain.
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
(https://i.imgur.com/CzOfHgA.png)
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
after repeatedly voting against support for Ukraine, PoiLIEvre dismissed Ukraine as a "far away foreign land.”
-
Thw World has to provide Ukraine with the equipment to finish off the Russians and drive them out of their territory now. The longer we wait, the more likely public opinion will shift against giving Ukraine anything, and abandoning it. Russia is on the ropes, and we just need to provide Ukrainians the ability to deliver the knockout punch. 325,000 Russian casualties. I can see Russia imploding once that figure hits 500,000.
The longer we wait? We've been doing that for several years now, with no end in sight, and public opinion has already shifted. Ukraine is the new Afghanistan.
-
Public opinion hasn't shifted. Where did you get that from? Your Russian blogs?
-
Public opinion hasn't shifted. Where did you get that from? Your Russian blogs?
It has shifted. Most Canadians do not want increased Ukraine funding. The people that thinking funding should be maintained at current levels is down from a year ago.
-
I guess you're not willing to share where you get your information.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10047632/canada-ukraine-aid-poll/
-
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
after repeatedly voting against support for Ukraine, PoiLIEvre dismissed Ukraine as a "far away foreign land.”
...with no end in sight, and public opinion has already shifted. Ukraine is the new Afghanistan.
shifting public opinion... how so? A quick googly showed me a late Sept/early Nov survey that had Canadians (those polled) expressing a want to have Canada maintain the current levels of support for Ukraine. And you? You know... Ukraine - that, "far away foreign land"!
-
Obviously a good guess about the Russian blogs. 😂
-
It has shifted. Most Canadians do not want increased Ukraine funding. The people that thinking funding should be maintained at current levels is down from a year ago.
It is not down siginificantly:
"A new survey suggests more Canadians want Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to maintain Canada’s current level of spending on helping Ukraine fight Russia’s ongoing invasion, rather than boosting financial support. Polling firm Leger recently asked Canadians about their country’s presence on the world stage, including Canada’s efforts to assist Ukraine defend against Russia, which began its full-scale invasion in February 2022.
A total of 1,521 respondents participated in the web survey from Oct. 20 to Oct. 22. It cannot be assigned a margin of error because online polls are not considered truly random samples. The survey asked Canadians what they thought the Liberal government should do when it comes to providing financial aid to Ukraine.
According to the results, 45 per cent of respondents said they thought Canada should maintain the same level of spending, compared to 30 per cent who said they thought the federal government ought to decrease it. Only 12 per cent of respondents answered they thought the federal government should boost Canada’s level of spending, while another 12 per cent said they did not know or refused to answer."
source: https://globalnews.ca/news/10047632/canada-ukraine-aid-poll/
-
MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC see... MAGAPoiLIEvre/CPC do
after repeatedly voting against support for Ukraine, PoiLIEvre dismissed Ukraine as a "far away foreign land.”
video (https://i.imgur.com/O1kcASv.mp4): PoiLIEvre following Trump's lead in abandoning Ukraine... "far away {foreign} land"
-
video (https://i.imgur.com/O1kcASv.mp4): PoiLIEvre following Trump's lead in abandoning Ukraine... "far away {foreign} land"
[attachimg=1]
-
(https://i.imgur.com/2maOzqj.jpg)
-
(https://i.imgur.com/2maOzqj.jpg)
There already is a Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. It just didn’t have the updated language of climate change policies like carbon taxes.
-
There already is a Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement. It just didn’t have the updated language of climate change policies like carbon taxes.
said language is what MAGA PoiLIEvre/CPC are hiding behind - per his norm, PoiLIEvre is lying in stating the agreement imposes a 'carbon tax' on Ukraine
(https://i.imgur.com/1IgKD1m.png)
-
There already is a Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement.
along with many new chapters, the new agreement provides updates to several of the old agreement's chapters:
Canada-Ukraine FTA modernization: Summary of negotiated outcomes (https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/ukraine/summary-negotiated-resume-negocies.aspx?lang=eng)
-
along with many new chapters, the new agreement provides updates to several of the old agreement's chapters:
Canada-Ukraine FTA modernization: Summary of negotiated outcomes (https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/ukraine/summary-negotiated-resume-negocies.aspx?lang=eng)
Yes, I’m sure many updates were needed from a trade deal made in, checks notes, 2015!!! 😂😂😂
I get it though, shift focus on Ukraine, anything but the current state of Canada.
-
Yes, I’m sure many updates were needed from a trade deal made in, checks notes, 2015!!!
notwithstanding the many new chapters working to modernize the agreement, good on ya for accepting the old agreement needed updates! Good on ya! That being said why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
(https://i.imgur.com/1IgKD1m.png)
-
notwithstanding the many new chapters working to modernize the agreement, good on ya for accepting the old agreement needed updates! Good on ya! That being said why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
(https://i.imgur.com/1IgKD1m.png)
Oh I’m sure massive modernization of the agreement was needed as it as constructed waaaay back in, checks notes, 2015! 😂😂😂
That’s even before the internet right?! 🤣
-
along with many new chapters, the new agreement provides updates to several of the old agreement's chapters:
Canada-Ukraine FTA modernization: Summary of negotiated outcomes (https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/ukraine/summary-negotiated-resume-negocies.aspx?lang=eng)
Oh I’m sure massive modernization of the agreement was needed as it as constructed waaaay back in, checks notes, 2015! 😂😂😂
That’s even before the internet right?! 🤣
don't be afraid to follow the above link I provided! But again, you haven't answered the question - again: why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
notwithstanding the many new chapters working to modernize the agreement, good on ya for accepting the old agreement needed updates! Good on ya! That being said why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBiEmAoXwAAu1Sj?format=jpg&name=small)
Russia began to go on the offensive after the unsuccessful counter-attack by the Ukrainians. Considering, the defenders usually have a big advantage, when fighting we all know what this means- MASSIVE LOSSES.
The Russians have been suffering an average of 1,000 casualties per day, since November.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBiEmAoXwAAu1Sj?format=jpg&name=small)
Russia began to go on the offensive after the unsuccessful counter-attack by the Ukrainians. Considering, the defenders usually have a big advantage, when fighting we all know what this means- MASSIVE LOSSES.
The Russians have been suffering an average of 1,000 casualties per day, since November.
The problem is that we have no idea of the accuracy of these figures, especially in the fog of war.
-
But again, you haven't answered the question - again: why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
still waiting Shady... still waiting! Is this a problem for you?
-
read the room, hey PoiLIEvre... read the room!
(https://i.imgur.com/duaBB3e.png)
-
still waiting Shady... still waiting! Is this a problem for you?
Because it was completely unnecessary. It’s just an attempt by the Trudeau regime to shift attention from the state of the country. The state that they’re responsible for. Btw. This is the last Pierre related post I’m going to be responding to that’s not in the Canadian politics section. You try to turn every topic into a Pierre related one. You need to get some professional help.
-
But again, you haven't answered the question - again: why would MAGA PeePee/CPC vote against the updated/modernized Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement?
Because it was completely unnecessary.
unnecessary? Completely unnecessary? How so, ShadyMan? How so? C'mon Shady... don't forget PoiLIEvre stating Ukraine is a, "far away foreign land"!
This is the last Pierre related post I’m going to be responding to that’s not in the Canadian politics section. You try to turn every topic into a Pierre related one. You need to get some professional help.
inconvenient for you, hey! Perhaps you could state why support for the Ukraine war effort is not germane to this thread... you can do that, right?
-
You try to turn every topic into a Pierre related one. You need to get some professional help.
He is a troll. The best way to deal with trolls, is to not respond to him. They crave attention, and by giving them their fix, they will feel enabled to repeat this behaviour over and over.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBm7yC3WQAAxQ-W?format=jpg&name=small)
-
hey now Coolio! Talk about YOUR trolling... as you did with the images below, do you intend to post a day-by-day casualty count - such stimulating content, even as you and your cohort ShadyMan state you can't trust these type updates from either Ukraine or Russia!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBiEmAoXwAAu1Sj?format=jpg) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBm7yC3WQAAxQ-W?format=jpg)
rather than you trolling this thread, perhaps you could answer the following question - clearly the ShadyMan won't touch it! Sure you can - right?
...Perhaps you could state why support for the Ukraine war effort is not germane to this thread... you can do that, right?
-
He is a troll. The best way to deal with trolls, is to not respond to him. They crave attention, and by giving them their fix, they will feel enabled to repeat this behaviour over and over.
Maybe you shouldn't have clicked the link to the article. ;)
-
You try to turn every topic into a Pierre related one. You need to get some professional help.
every topic? Such hyperbole! This is just you trying to marginalize poor lil' waldo - get a grip, hey! And answer the question; again:
...Perhaps you could state why support for the Ukraine war effort is not germane to this thread... you can do that, right?
geezaz Shady/Coolio! How could the following not be germane to this thread? How surprising (not) you have nothing to say about it!
(https://i.imgur.com/duaBB3e.png)
-
The Atlantic (Dec 18, 2023): Give Russia’s Frozen Assets to Ukraine Now (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/ukraine-russia-frozen-assets/676390/?s=09) --- Putin should pay for the damage his invasion has caused, and the money is needed immediately.
A majority of Americans and a majority of Congress want to help Ukraine win the war against Russia, and to stop the spread of autocracy into Europe. A majority of people in the European Union and a majority of EU leaders want the same. But small minorities of lawmakers—some inspired by Russian President Vladimir Putin or his money, some bent on bargaining for other things—have managed to block or delay that aid.
On both sides of the Atlantic, the crunch has arrived. The far-right faction that now controls the Republican Party captured the House last year and has successfully blocked a new spending bill for many months.The prime minister of Hungary, himself a de facto autocrat, is also blocking an EU financial package for Ukraine. Eventually the European prime ministers and the Biden administration alike may well do deals and allocate the money. But in the meantime—and just in case they fail—there is something else that American and European governments can do.
-
Renew Democracy Initiative (RDI): Making Putin Pay - The Legal, Practical, and Moral Case for Transferring Russian Sovereign Assets to Ukraine (https://rdi.org/articles/making-putin-pay/)
In February 2022, President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale war of aggression aimed at destroying Ukraine as an independent state. As the human and financial toll of Putin’s illegal war climbs with each passing day, there is a growing global consensus that Russia has an obligation to pay for the death and destruction that it has wrought on the Ukrainian people and other victims of Russia’s aggression, unprecedented since the end of World War II. Although many countries have frozen Russian sovereign bank assets in response, they can and must do more. Any country that currently holds Russian assets should transfer them to Ukraine to help that sovereign nation survive and rebuild.
To this end, RDI has issued a comprehensive report on Constitution Day, 2023, demonstrating that transferring Russia’s assets to Ukraine is currently possible with no changes in U.S. law. This report was principally authored by constitutional scholar Laurence Tribe in partnership with his colleagues at the law firm Kaplan, Hecker & Fink LLP.
.
Russia’s assets could be transferred to Ukraine in a manner that is transparent and accountable, with safeguards against the abuse of these legal authorities in the future. RDI’s report demonstrates that the policy objections to such transfer rest on misconceptions: The U.S. dollar will remain the world’s reserve currency because of unique structural advantages, and Russia possesses few, if any, avenues to meaningfully retaliate to the transfer of its assets to Ukraine. Not only would transferring Russia’s frozen assets to Ukraine make strategic sense. Failing to do so would embolden lawless aggressors by sending the dangerous signal that the United States and its allies lack the political and moral will to do all it takes to stop President Putin and his military from murdering civilians and flouting the basic rules of the international order.
-
The Atlantic (Dec 18, 2023): Give Russia’s Frozen Assets to Ukraine Now (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/12/ukraine-russia-frozen-assets/676390/?s=09) --- Putin should pay for the damage his invasion has caused, and the money is needed immediately.
Is that legal? What would be any possible fallout?
-
Is that legal? What would be any possible fallout?
is it... illegal?
again: Renew Democracy Initiative (RDI): Making Putin Pay - The Legal, Practical, and Moral Case for Transferring Russian Sovereign Assets to Ukraine (https://rdi.org/articles/making-putin-pay/)
-
Latest stats from the battlefield in Ukraine. It is quite possible the Russians could suffer half a million war casualties by the spring of 2024. This is the most combat losses Russia has incurred, since the German invasion of the Soviet Union during World War Two.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBxV9nmWcAAyKll?format=jpg&name=small)
-
The war in Ukraine is revitalizing Putin, as Zelenskyy struggles with resources and morale
A year ago, Zelenskyy received a standing ovation in Congress and promises of billions in aid to help fight Putin’s invading army. The Russian president, meanwhile, appeared to shun the spotlight. His army was losing ground as he fended off challenges from within his own ranks. On Tuesday, the roles appeared reversed. Putin seemed confident and victorious at a Defense Ministry briefing, while Zelenskyy looked beleaguered at a hastily organized year-end news conference.
The Russian leader sounded buoyant as he touted Russia’s war effort at the briefing, surrounded by his top military brass — a stark contrast to just six months ago when his grip on power and the country’s military leadership was threatened by a mutiny and Kyiv’s new counteroffensive was expected to drive the Russians back as far as their own borders. Putin’s display of confidence is hardly surprising, said Mark Galeotti, the head of the Russia-focused consultancy Mayak Intelligence. “Putin is in a stronger position now than he has been at any point since the invasion, so he has some reason to crow,” Galeotti, who has written extensively about the Russian president, said.
Zelenskyy, meanwhile, is in a very different spot, he added, falling back on his tried-and-tested tactic of invoking a moral obligation by his allies to help Ukraine as he appeared to take a veiled stab at Washington. “I am sure that the United States of America will not betray us and that what we agreed with the United States will be fully implemented,” Zelenskyy told reporters.
Ukrainian President Zelenskyy with President Biden at the White House last week.Yuri Gripas / Bloomberg via Getty Images
President Joe Biden, one of Zelenskyy’s closest allies, has asked for $61 billion in new aid for Ukraine, but Congress has yet to greenlight it. Zelenskyy returned frustrated from a visit to the U.S. last week with no solid guarantees of more aid.
Zelenskyy's invoking the word “betrayal” is part of the “moral blackmail” strategy that has worked well for the Ukrainian leader for the last two years, Galeotti said, but it can only go so far and is starting to wear thin in the West. “I think it reflects the fact that not only was he disappointed by the outcome of his trip to the U.S., but it also left him looking weaker at home,” he said. “He is meant to be the miracle worker, who goes and suddenly is able to unblock these kinds of problems.”
source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/zelenskyy-putin-year-end-conference-rcna130656
---
I really hope that the US aid package is approved by congress. 2024 will be a very important year, and possibly the turning point, considering the war is bound to be an election issue, and public opinion is slowly turning against continued aid to Ukraine.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB1tpaQWMAEZhrZ?format=jpg&name=small)
Meanwhile, the Toronto Sun is still garbage.
-
BBC report on how Russia's blatantly obvious propaganda against #Ukraine & its president finds willing western (Republican) fools to promote it. A website founded by a former US Marine living in Russia promoted a false claim Zelensky purchased 2 luxury yachts with American aid money.
Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said: "Anyone who votes to fund Ukraine is funding the most corrupt money scheme of any foreign war in our country's history." She linked to a story containing the yacht rumour.
source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67766964
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB20LjdWQAA8Ccs?format=jpg&name=small)
-
How the **** do these people get re-elected? I can see an electorate making a mistake the first time but there is no excuse for repeating it.
-
How the **** do these people get re-elected? I can see an electorate making a mistake the first time but there is no excuse for repeating it.
Ukraines corruption has been very well known for many years. Fighting against funding oversight promotes such conspiracy theories.
-
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
While the conflict with Russia heats up in the east, life for most Ukrainians is marred by corruption so endemic that even hospitals appear to be infected. Can anyone clean the country up?
-
Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe
https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
lol this article again?
-
lol this article again?
Kill yourself.
Corruption Is an Existential Threat to Ukraine, and Ukrainians Know It
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/10/opinion/ukraine-war-corruption.html
-
Kill yourself.
Corruption Is an Existential Threat to Ukraine, and Ukrainians Know It
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/10/opinion/ukraine-war-corruption.html
Congrats on finding an article more recent than 2015, you botched abortion.
-
Congrats on finding an article more recent than 2015, you botched abortion.
Congrats on ignoring facts that don’t fit with your preferred narrative. Kill yourself already.
-
Congrats on ignoring facts that don’t fit with your preferred narrative. Kill yourself already.
Do you think this article supports your position? You probably do because you're functionally braindead.
But guess who hasn’t shied away from calling out corruption in Ukraine? Ukrainians. No one knows better what an existential threat corruption can be, sapping the public trust and the legitimacy of the state. Ukrainians consider corruption the country’s second-most-serious problem, behind only the Russian invasion, according to a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology this year. They know that they must root out money laundering and the influence of oligarchs as a condition of joining the European Union. Since the war started, the percentage of Ukrainians who say they are willing to stand up for their rights when they interact with bureaucrats doubled — from 26 percent in 2021 to 52 percent this year. That raises hopes that Ukrainians are starting to resist corruption with the same can-do spirit that repelled the Russian invasion.
Yuriy Nikolov, a founder of theonline news platform Nashi Groshi (Our Money), broke stories about the Ukrainian Defense Ministry paying huge markups for supplies — 46 cents for eggs that should have cost five cents, $86 for winter coats that were worth just $29. A week ago, President Volodymyr Zelensky dismissed his defense minister, Oleksii Reznikov, who, although not personally implicated, had been tarnished by the scandal.
...
Mr. Zelensky has been on a mission to convince Ukrainians and donor countries that he has things under control. In May the chief of Ukraine’s Supreme Court was arrested on bribery charges. In June another judge, who hid $150,000 worth of bribes in pickle jars and fled the country to Moldova, received a 10-year sentence after a bizarre incident in which he was forcibly returned to Ukraine. This month, Ihor Kolomoisky, an oligarch who once served as a governor, was arrested in Ukraine nearly two years after the U.S. Department of Justice accused him of embezzling billions of dollars from a private Ukrainian bank that he owned and laundering the money by buying real estate in Cleveland and other American cities.
His arrest will boost the Ukrainian public’s confidence that the war on corruption can be won. But anti-corruption watchdogs in Ukraine aren’t thrilled with how he was taken into custody. The security services grabbed Mr. Kolomoisky before the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, which is seen as more independent, got the chance. The bureau had been preparing to prosecute him on far more serious charges.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHuji.png)
Under fire for opening cracks in Canada’s support for Ukraine, the Conservatives are
playing a “juggling act” as domestic and geopolitics clash, say insiders.
The Conservative Party has come under attack from the Liberals, NDP, and a
Ukrainian-Canadian lobby group for allegedly breaking the cross-party consensus
supporting Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February 2022.
At issue are five votes which saw the Conservatives vote against a modernized
Canada-Ukraine trade pact and increased funding for a Canadian training mission for
Ukrainian soldiers.
Ukrainian Canadian Congress CEO and executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn said it is
concerning that the broad consensus supporting Ukraine has its first cracks.
“This is the first time that we’ve seen any party in Parliament vote against
something which the government of Ukraine has come forward with and asked for,” he
told The Hill Times. “We are definitely concerned that this has arisen and that
there seems to be a moment where the unanimity and the solidarity of the past seems
to have slipped by in this occasion, and we hope it will return.”
-
It was funny to see the Toronto Post take a page out of Russia Times with their cartoon about Zelenskyy only to end up with a grovelling apology after the public backlash. Canadians aren’t as susceptible to Russian propaganda, save for Shady.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHuji.png)
Thank you, waldo. Very informative.
-
It was funny to see the Toronto Post take a page out of Russia Times with their cartoon about Zelenskyy only to end up with a grovelling apology after the public backlash. Canadians aren’t as susceptible to Russian propaganda, save for Shady.
The only people susceptible to propaganda are you people. Do you still believe that Putin is close to death? Or how about the Russian army just weeks away from collapse? Acknowledging facts that may not be beneficial to
Ukraine isn’t falling prey to propaganda. It’s just acknowledging all facts, not just facts that make you feel comfortable.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHuji.png)
Lol, I love the “under fire”! Under fire from whom? CBC/Liberal journalists. That’s who. Regular Canadians are more interested in real issues that impact their everyday lives. All this is, is an attempt to distract from the sad state of the country. A trade deal from 2015 does not need to be “modernized”. It’s pure political distraction.
-
The only people susceptible to propaganda are you people. Do you still believe that Putin is close to death? Or how about the Russian army just weeks away from collapse? Acknowledging facts that may not be beneficial to
Ukraine isn’t falling prey to propaganda. It’s just acknowledging all facts, not just facts that make you feel comfortable.
I was more optimistic in late 2022, and then in mid 2023, when the Wagner group revolted, and it appeared as if there may be a Civil War in Russia. Unfortunately, the leader of the Wagner group made the mistake of trusting Putin, and was murdered. The Russian military has been decimated, and this will set back the country for at least a decade.
As of today, it is a war of attrition. Both sides are suffering immensely. If a case of which side has the ability to fight on, and not blink. It is imperative that the US give the required aid to Ukraine, so they have the ability to drive out the Russians, like they did in Afghanistan in the 80s. The Russian people are already feeling the effects of the war, as the standard of living in the country has dropped. The question is to what sacrifice the Russian people are willing to make, to see Putin's political goals come to fruition.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB1tpaQWMAEZhrZ?format=jpg&name=small)
Meanwhile, the Toronto Sun is still garbage.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB78Rf2WkAAIA-8?format=jpg&name=medium)
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCAtWKlXwAA-koO?format=jpg&name=small)
-
Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine
Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/12/23/multimedia/23putin-4-vljg/23putin-4-vljg-jumbo.jpg)
Buoyed by Ukraine’s failed counteroffensive and flagging Western support, Mr. Putin says that Russia’s war goals have not changed. Addressing his generals on Tuesday, he boasted that Ukraine was so beleaguered that Russia’s invading troops were doing “what we want.” “We won’t give up what’s ours,” he pledged, adding dismissively, “If they want to negotiate, let them negotiate.”
But in a recent push of back-channel diplomacy, Mr. Putin has been sending a different message: He is ready to make a deal.
Mr. Putin has been signaling through intermediaries since at least September that he is open to a cease-fire that freezes the fighting along the current lines, far short of his ambitions to dominate Ukraine, two former senior Russian officials close to the Kremlin and American and international officials who have received the message from Mr. Putin’s envoys say.
In fact, Mr. Putin also sent out feelers for a cease-fire deal a year earlier, in the fall of 2022, according to American officials. That quiet overture, not previously reported, came after Ukraine routed Russia’s army in the country’s northeast. Mr. Putin indicated that he was satisfied with Russia’s captured territory and ready for an armistice, they said.
Mr. Putin’s repeated interest in a cease-fire is an example of how opportunism and improvisation have defined his approach to the war behind closed doors. Dozens of interviews with Russians who have long known him and with international officials with insight into the Kremlin’s inner workings show a leader maneuvering to reduce risks and keep his options open in a war that has lasted longer than he expected. While deploying fiery public rhetoric, Mr. Putin privately telegraphs a desire to declare victory and move on.
“They say, ‘We are ready to have negotiations on a cease-fire,’” said one senior international official who met with top Russian officials this fall. “They want to stay where they are on the battlefield.” There is no evidence that Ukraine’s leaders, who have pledged to retake all their territory, will accept such a deal. Some American officials say it could be a familiar Kremlin attempt at misdirection and does not reflect genuine willingness by Mr. Putin to compromise. The former Russian officials add that Mr. Putin could well change his mind again if Russian forces gain momentum.
In the past 16 months, Mr. Putin swallowed multiple humiliations — embarrassing retreats, a once-friendly warlord’s mutiny — before he arrived at his current state of relaxed confidence. All along, he waged a war that has killed or maimed hundreds of thousands while exhibiting contradictions that have become hallmarks of his rule. While obsessed with Russia’s battlefield performance and what he sees as his historic mission to retake “original Russian lands,” he has been keen for most Russians to go on with normal life. While readying Russia for years of war, he is quietly trying to make it clear that he is ready to end it.
“He really is willing to stop at the current positions,” one of the former senior Russian officials told The New York Times, relaying a message he said the Kremlin was quietly sending. The former official added, “He’s not willing to retreat one meter.”
Mr. Putin, the current and former officials said, sees a confluence of factors creating an opportune moment for a deal: a battlefield that seems stuck in a stalemate, the fallout over Ukraine’s disappointing offensive, its flagging support in the West, and, since October, the distraction of the war in Gaza. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity, like others interviewed for this article, because of the sensitive nature of the back-channel overtures.
Responding to written questions after declining an interview request, Mr. Putin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, said in a voice message that “сonceptually, these theses you presented, they are incorrect.” Asked whether Russia was ready for a cease-fire at the current battle lines, he pointed to the president’s recent comments; Mr. Putin said this month that Russia’s war goals had not changed. “Putin is, indeed, ready for talks, and he has said so,” Mr. Peskov said. “Russia continues to be ready, but exclusively for the achievement of its own goals.”
Ukraine has been rallying support for its own peace formula, which requires Moscow to surrender all captured Ukrainian territory and pay damages. President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday that he saw no sign that Russia wanted to negotiate. “We just see brazen willingness to kill,” he said.
source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/23/world/europe/putin-russia-ukraine-war-cease-fire.html
-
The 72nd Mechanized Brigade of Ukraine takes a moment to celebrate Christmas.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCMnfwDW8AAZ2NC?format=jpg&name=small)
-
(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHuji.png)
Lol, I love the “under fire”! Under fire from whom? CBC/Liberal journalists. That’s who.
c'mon Shady! You 'ignored' the prior quote; again:
Under fire for opening cracks in Canada’s support for Ukraine, the Conservatives are
playing a “juggling act” as domestic and geopolitics clash, say insiders.
The Conservative Party has come under attack from the Liberals, NDP, and a
Ukrainian-Canadian lobby group for allegedly breaking the cross-party consensus
supporting Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February 2022.
At issue are five votes which saw the Conservatives vote against a modernized
Canada-Ukraine trade pact and increased funding for a Canadian training mission for
Ukrainian soldiers.
(https://i.imgur.com/ChS6FoG.jpg)
-
so PeePee was too afraid to take questions from Vassy... video (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1738957129149452290/vid/avc1/1280x720/NKFllBy01QMJcixW.mp4?tag=14): choosing instead to send underling Melissa Lantsman to try and defend the Conservatives pulling their support for Ukraine (Lantsman...who seems to be tempering the pomp!)
(https://i.imgur.com/TKQ7Brb.png)
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCvFzlGX0AAeR9v?format=jpg&name=small)
360,000 Russian casualties of war going into 2024.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCvFzlGX0AAeR9v?format=jpg&name=small)
waldo cursory estimate: hey Coolio! You've {conservatively} posted a dozen+ of these scintillating 'estimates'... but the waldo doesn't recall you ever criticizing PoiLIEvre/CPC for pulling their support for Ukraine - did I just miss it? Or what, hey!
This should all be taken with a grain of salt. Any information that comes from Russia, or Ukraine should not be accepted as anything close to fact.
-
waldo cursory estimate: hey Coolio! You've {conservatively} posted a dozen+ of these scintillating 'estimates'... but the waldo doesn't recall you ever criticizing PoiLIEvre/CPC for pulling their support for Ukraine - did I just miss it? Or what, hey!
I will post the Russian causality estimates once per week, just for you.
-
I will post the Russian causality estimates once per week, just for you.
no worries! Just don't dox me bro...
-
(https://i.imgur.com/rtVLUfq.png)
-
Uh oh. Reality is starting to settle in now.
[attachimg=1]
-
Uh oh. Reality is starting to settle in now.
yup! In the face of the recently signed arms agreement between India & Russia, one that will see India manufacturing weapons for Russia, we have the reality of Putin appeaser PeePee taking the side of Modi/India!
(https://i.imgur.com/uMnZ1Qf.png)
-
Uh oh. Reality is starting to settle in now.
(Attachment Link)
This would be a colossal mistake.
-
yup! In the face of the recently signed arms agreement between India & Russia, one that will see India manufacturing weapons for Russia, we have the reality of Putin appeaser PeePee taking the side of Modi/India!
(https://i.imgur.com/uMnZ1Qf.png)
Russia supplies India with weapons, not the other way around. They joint produce some things, because Russia has better technical experience etc, but India is actually drifting towards Europe and Washington for arms now. The poor quality of Russian equipment, and their inability to produce it at scale has been made apparent.
-
CBC - Feb 6, 2024: House of Commons passes new Ukraine free trade deal over Conservative opposition --- Conservatives have rejected the deal because it contains a reference to 'carbon pricing' in the text. The legislation passed with support from the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP.
He {PoiLIEvre} is choosing to not stand with Ukraine, not stand with Ukrainians, and not stand with Ukrainian Canadians.
In order for this trade deal to be implemented, Ukraine must agree to promote a carbon tax. That is not something we can support.
waldo factoids - the updated free trade agreement:
=> imposes no such obligation on the Ukrainian government to introduce a carbon tax.
=> does include a provision saying that Canada & Ukraine will cooperate to "promote carbon pricing and measures to mitigate carbon leakage risks."
=> Ukraine has had a carbon tax in place since 2011.
=> Ukraine is actively seeking membership in the European Union, which has had an emissions trading system since 2005.
-
He needs some kind of lame excuse so they can pretend they aren't acting as Putin's minions, even though it's painfully obvious they are.
-
CBC - Feb 6, 2024: House of Commons passes new Ukraine free trade deal over Conservative opposition --- Conservatives have rejected the deal because it contains a reference to 'carbon pricing' in the text. The legislation passed with support from the Liberals, Bloc Québécois and NDP.
waldo factoids - the updated free trade agreement:
=> imposes no such obligation on the Ukrainian government to introduce a carbon tax.
=> does include a provision saying that Canada & Ukraine will cooperate to "promote carbon pricing and measures to mitigate carbon leakage risks."
=> Ukraine has had a carbon tax in place since 2011.
=> Ukraine is actively seeking membership in the European Union, which has had an emissions trading system since 2005.
Completely irrelevant as Canada already had a trade deal with Ukraine from not that long ago. More symbolism over substance.
-
He needs some kind of lame excuse so they can pretend they aren't acting as Putin's minions, even though it's painfully obvious they are.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFvgazpWQAAhzIF?format=jpg)
-
Completely irrelevant as Canada already had a trade deal with Ukraine from not that long ago. More symbolism over substance.
no, again... you were provided details of how this updated agreement differs (significantly differs) from the current agreement. You still continue to blather on with this most moronic statement/position - get stuffed!
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFvgazpWQAAhzIF?format=jpg)
I guess this absolves you of any critical thinking. No surprise from a Trudeau supporter. What Dear Leader says goes.
-
You actually believe they're helping Russia because they don't want Ukrainians to pay for their pollution?
-
You actually believe they're helping Russia because they don't want Ukrainians to pay for their pollution?
Do you think that you're helping Ukraine by insisting that they pay?
-
Passing the bill would help Ukraine; rejecting it helps Russia. We all know which side you Tuckerphiles are on.
-
the updated free trade agreement will ultimately position to help rebuild Ukraine; James Bezan, CPC Shadow Minister for Defence... for Defence waldo... for Defence!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFrmllQW0AAKkz_?format=jpg) video: (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1755054528087396352/pu/vid/avc1/720x720/NGTbISsO0a_pJebQ.mp4?tag=12) When the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, was in Canada he asked Canada to help rebuild Ukraine. Instead, PoiLIEvre/CPC MPs turned their backs on him, turned their backs on Ukraine!
-
Do you think that you're helping Ukraine by insisting that they pay?
quit making shyte up! There is nothing in the updated agreement that, as you say, "insists Ukraine pay for their pollution"!
-
Passing the bill would help Ukraine; rejecting it helps Russia. We all know which side you Tuckerphiles are on.
How does a "price on pollution" help Ukraine?
-
the updated free trade agreement will ultimately position to help rebuild Ukraine
And how will it do that?
-
FYI, The United States has a trade deal with Ukraine circa 2008.
-
How does a "price on pollution" help Ukraine?
It helps us all. But surrendering to Russia because you don't want the people they're bombing to pay a carbon tax is the sort of logic only a halfwit like you would pursue
-
How does a "price on pollution" help Ukraine?
again! Quit making shyte up!
waldo factoids - the updated free trade agreement:
=> imposes no such obligation on the Ukrainian government to introduce a carbon tax.
=> does include a provision saying that Canada & Ukraine will cooperate to "promote carbon pricing and measures to mitigate carbon leakage risks."
=> Ukraine has had a carbon tax in place since 2011.
=> Ukraine is actively seeking membership in the European Union, which has had an emissions trading system since 2005.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/77j7VBo.png)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFvcH_DW8AYwuFs?format=jpg)
-
I wonder how much Russia is paying them.
-
I wonder how much Russia is paying them.
How much is Russia paying you for wanting a Gaza ceasefire?
-
(https://i.imgur.com/77j7VBo.png)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFvcH_DW8AYwuFs?format=jpg)
Waldo, how much is China paying you and the liberals to keep implementing the carbon tax here and around the works? Xi absolutely loves it!
-
How much is Russia paying you for wanting a Gaza ceasefire?
Who said I want a Gaza ceasefire? I thought you said I love war. Try to at least get your made-up arguments straight
-
Xi absolutely loves it!
Something tells me he doesn't care about a revenue-neutral tax in Canada, but I guess if your only ability to respond is through whataboutisms, you have to even use the lame, nonsensical ones sometimes
-
Something tells me he doesn't care about a revenue-neutral tax in Canada
Oh he does. He loves it when western countries make manufacturing, etc more expensive, as it makes Chinese companies more competitive. It's also potentially more companies to relocate to China. But you're an economic illiterate, so you don't understand these concepts. You think that the carbon tax is revenue-neutral for businesses. It's truly unbelievable! LOL.
-
Who said I want a Gaza ceasefire? I thought you said I love war. Try to at least get your made-up arguments straight
Oh, so you support the continued Israeli invasion of Gaza? Is that correct?
-
Oh, so you support the continued Israeli invasion of Gaza? Is that correct?
My position has always been "you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about "
-
My position has always been "you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about "
Answer the question. Do you support a ceasefire, or do you support the Israeli invasion?
-
Answer the question. Do you support a ceasefire, or do you support the Israeli invasion?
I am Switzerland...if Switzerland also enjoys calling you an idiot.
-
I am Switzerland...if Switzerland also enjoys calling you an idiot.
So you're just a full time troll now, good to know. Carry on.
-
Now? When have I ever stated a position on anything, other than that you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about?
-
Now? When have I ever stated a position on anything, other than that you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about?
Ok troll.
-
Maybe I'm a far-right neo-Nazi like you but I resent idiots making us all look stupid. 😂
-
Oh he does. He loves it when western countries make manufacturing, etc more expensive, as it makes Chinese companies more competitive. It's also potentially more companies to relocate to China. But you're an economic illiterate, so you don't understand these concepts. You think that the carbon tax is revenue-neutral for businesses. It's truly unbelievable! LOL.
Are you saying that you're economically literate?
-
Are you saying that you're economically literate?
Very much so, particularly when compared to people like Bubber.
-
Unfortunately I don't have the liberty of making things up just to feel I win an argument, as that would jeopardize my self-respect. Remember when you tried to pretend public auto insurance was government subsidized until you were shown the books and had to slink away in humiliation? 😂
-
Unfortunately I don't have the liberty of making things up just to feel I win an argument, as that would jeopardize my self-respect. Remember when you tried to pretend public auto insurance was government subsidized until you were shown the books and had to slink away in humiliation? 😂
Complete nonsense. I will not participate in threads when my posts get deleted. Also, the government insurance absolutely is subsidized, and enjoys perks that private companies don't have, such as using existing business infrastructure. They also need profits to pay for the significant pay increases and bonuses they're giving their employees. Profits are necessary.
Regardless, please tell us how the carbon tax is revenue neutral for businesses! I'm all ears!!! LOL
-
Complete nonsense. I will not participate in threads when my posts get deleted. Also, the government insurance absolutely is subsidized, and enjoys perks that private companies don't have, such as using existing business infrastructure. They also need profits to pay for the significant pay increases and bonuses they're giving their employees. Profits are necessary.
Thanks for reminding us that you don't understand what not-for-profit means (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/car-culture-culture/?message=118774) lmao. That was a good one.
-
Thanks for reminding us that you don't understand what not-for-profit means (https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/general-discussion/car-culture-culture/?message=118774) lmao. That was a good one.
Gotta pay those big bonuses! 😂😂😂
But with no profits! 🤣
-
Astounding.
-
Astounding.
That’s exactly what I said when your insisted that the carbon taxes are revenue neutral for businesses! 😂😂😂
-
Please explain how you arrived at that conclusion Bubber.
-
My conclusion is you don't understand the concept of "revenue-neutral". It means the tax revenue the government takes in is neutral (i.e., they remit what they receive), not that it is neutral for those who pollute a lot. Those who pollute less, like me, make money off the deal at polluters' expense---just as it should be.
-
Embarrassing when you think you have a "gotcha" but it turns out you just don't understand the terms you're using, innit?
-
Wow.
What did you think it meant Shady?
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF2b0X2XYAAdLY_?format=jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF1_IVyXoAEKOwN?format=jpg)
-
My conclusion is you don't understand the concept of "revenue-neutral". It means the tax revenue the government takes in is neutral (i.e., they remit what they receive), not that it is neutral for those who pollute a lot. Those who pollute less, like me, make money off the deal at polluters' expense---just as it should be.
The fact that it’s revenue neutral to the government is irrelevant to how it impact’s businesses, prices etc. more distraction. You never address actual issue at hand. It’s not revenue neutral for businesses, it’s actually very costly. Those costs get transferred onto all goods and services that are carbon taxed. Address the actual issue. Not more shell games.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF2b0X2XYAAdLY_?format=jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF1_IVyXoAEKOwN?format=jpg)
Xi would be proud of you and your party waldo.
-
You're still trying to pretend you're not on China/Russia's side while you repeat their talking points verbatim?
-
We Putin lackeys are so proud of PoiLIEvre/CPC's allegiance to and favouring of Russia over Ukraine.
(https://i.imgur.com/gdBvsga.jpeg)
-
😂😂😂
[attachimg=1]
-
How can you criticize a war your side started? Do you agree now with Russia that Canada needs denazification, like Ukraine? They cited how a long-dead Winnipeg Art Gallery director grew up in Germany and therefore had Nazi ties. Is that enough evidence to justify bombing us, as Tucker has called for? ("I'm serious.")
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/russian-foreign-ministry-nazism-canada-eckhardt-winnipeg-1.7107616?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar
-
😂😂😂
oh my! 3... count em... 3 'tears of joy' emojis! Can anyone translate the graphic's intent... anyone, anyone, anyone?
-
the G&M Editorial Board, no less! And, recent survey showing the identified party line support (or lack therein) for Ukraine:
=> 43% of those who identified as 2021 CPC voters state Canada is offering "too much support" to Ukraine.
(https://i.imgur.com/SHmdYBQ.png)
-
the G&M Editorial Board, no less! And, recent survey showing the identified party line support (or lack therein) for Ukraine:
=> 43% of those who identified as 2021 CPC voters state Canada is offering "too much support" to Ukraine.
(https://i.imgur.com/SHmdYBQ.png)
I agree with the sentiment or at the very least we should’ve trying to broker some peace agreement. Regardless, I’m against continued Ukraine funding, as well as any funding to Israel. There are 30 homeless encampments in Halifax alone. Take care of Canadian citizens first.
-
I am 100% in favour of helping the Ukrainian people. If we really look at it, the last time the USA had this "stay out of it" mentality was 1939-41 when World War 2 began. We all know what happened. What people do not realise is with the aid packages, most of the money stays here. It also creates jobs in munitions factories, and helps train our soldiers.
The cheapest and most effective way of neutralising Russia, is to aid the Ukrainians. If Russia wins, they will want more land. Eventually the Baltic countries and Poland. We have to stop Russia now. They have never done the West any good, and continue to be our enemy.
-
Regardless, I’m against continued Ukraine funding, as well as any funding to Israel.
Feb 13, 2024: U.S. Senate passes $95 billion package with aid for Ukraine and Israel
the foreign aid package bill passed the Senate despite House Speaker Mike Johnson’s criticism of the legislation and former President Donald Trump signalling opposition to the bill. The Senate vote was 70 to 29 with 22 Republicans voting in favour, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell - and now {back again} onto the MAGA House Republicans!
-
Sen. Ron Johnson (do they all have to have the most boring, forgettable names?) voted against the aid package, adding that Putin can't lose! I think Ron was at that mysterious July 4 meeting with Putin that Republicans really, really didn't want to talk about. I guess for Ron's sake, Putin can't lose.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/aFrHhlg.png)
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF_vt1MXUAEiPu2?format=jpg)
-
much has been said/written about PoiLIEvre's muted... tepid... response to the killing of Russian 'opposition leader', Alexey Navalny. Perhaps the only saving grace for PeePee is that he hasn't followed the Trump lead by making the killing about himself!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1759005253473566721/EUEYFXkA?format=jpg&name=small)
-
Feb 24, 2024 - Reuters: Western leaders were in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv to show solidarity with Ukraine on the second anniversary of Russia's invasion... PM Trudeau, Italy's Giorgia Meloni, the president of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, and Belgium's Alexander De Croo. Meloni was due to host a videoconference later in the day from Kyiv that will involve leaders from the Group of Seven major democracies, with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy invited to join the discussion.
(https://i.imgur.com/gQ5TBij.png)
Feb 24, 2024 - CBC: PM Trudeau signs $3-billion security deal for Ukraine on 2nd anniversary of Russian invasion
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau signed a deal in Kyiv on Saturday committing Canada to a $3.02-billion security assistance package for Ukraine, a milestone event to mark the second anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion.
.
The security assistance deal, first promised by allies last summer as a bridge toward Ukraine's membership in NATO, is a mixture of economic and military aid. It's meant to be stable, predictable support that Ukrainian government and Armed Forces can count on as they continue to resist Moscow's drive to absorb the country. Other allies, led by G7 nations, have signed similar agreements.
As they stand and fight for their territorial integrity, their sovereignty, their language, their culture, their very identity and their right to choose their own future, they're also standing and fighting for the international rules based order and the principles that underpin all of our democracies.
-
I agree with the sentiment or at the very least we should’ve trying to broker some peace agreement. Regardless, I’m against continued Ukraine funding, as well as any funding to Israel. There are 30 homeless encampments in Halifax alone. Take care of Canadian citizens first.
So you want to give the money to homeless people? Welcome to the revolution Comrade Shady.
-
So you want to give the money to homeless people? Welcome to the revolution Comrade Shady.
If the choice is between spending it at home, or shipping it overseas, obviously.
-
If the choice is between spending it at home, or shipping it overseas, obviously.
Nah like most conservatives you only pretend to care about spending on domestic priorities when it's about cutting foreign aid, you don't actually want the government to help people here either.
-
Nah like most conservatives you only pretend to care about spending on domestic priorities when it's about cutting foreign aid, you don't actually want the government to help people here either.
That's completely false, but the devil is in the details. Help is subjective, and there are always different opinions on how to best help someone.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/dUd8o0S.png)
Entitled the Canada-Ukraine Strategic Security Partnership, the bilateral agreement sets out spending
that will be delivered in 2024 — per Ukraine's request — and commits as-yet unspecified support over 10 years.
That is the same as similar deals negotiated by G7 countries including the U.K., France and Germany,
in an effort to show Russia that Ukraine’s allies will not abandon the fight.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/dUd8o0S.png)
Nobody cares.
-
Unlike the present-day GOP, I think the CPC will always be too cowardly to admit they're in the tank for Russia.
-
Nobody cares.
other than... for example, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, the Ukrainian diaspora living in Canada, Ukrainian refugees to Canada, Canadians against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Canadians supporting Ukraine, etc..
-
other than... for example, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, the Ukrainian diaspora living in Canada, Ukrainian refugees to Canada, Canadians against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Canadians supporting Ukraine, etc..
Oh so less than 1% of the population? Foreign nationals? Yes, I understand that they probably do care more about Ukraine than Canada.
-
Your cravenness to Russia is showing, Putin-boy.
-
Uh oh
https://globalnews.ca/news/10325598/vladimir-putin-nuclear-war-warning/
-
Uh oh
https://globalnews.ca/news/10325598/vladimir-putin-nuclear-war-warning/
Hasn't he been beating that drum from the very beginning of the war?
-
Hasn't he been beating that drum from the very beginning of the war?
Haven't we been told that he's crazy? So why are we comfortable with escalating a war with him? A potential nuclear war.
-
Haven't we been told that he's crazy? So why are we comfortable with escalating a war with him? A potential nuclear war.
I don't think there's much chance of western boots on the ground in Ukraine. But the alternative to continued support for Ukraine is its destruction.
-
Uh oh
https://globalnews.ca/news/10325598/vladimir-putin-nuclear-war-warning/
LOL...if I only had a dollar for every time Vladimir Putin plays the "we could use nuclear weapons" card, I would be wealthy. Putin is not a fool. If he did deploy nukes, Russia would be turned to glass within 72 hours.
Everyone knows that he is bluffing.
-
Haven't we been told that he's crazy? So why are we comfortable with escalating a war with him? A potential nuclear war.
The Russians are petrified of nuclear war, since they would lose badly. Putin is only playing that card, to appease the GOP and a vocal minority of Europeans.
-
Welcome to NATO, Sweden.
-
Russia's economy is stronger than ever. The sanctions are a failure, and are only leading to inflationary pressure for food and fuel in the West. This is why people criticized sanctions back in 2022.
The Russian economy in 2023 outpaced both the United States and Europe in terms of growth, increasing in size by 3.6% despite being subject to a wide array of powerful economic sanctions and being cut off from major global markets.
https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-economy-grew-in-2023-despite-war-and-sanctions/7478952.html
-
Do you ever say anything without getting it approved by Russia first?
-
Do you ever say anything without getting it approved by Russia first?
Do I need Russia's approval to speak the truth? What did I say that was false?
-
Ask yourself when you bece Russia's cheerleader and why that happened.
-
Russia's economy is stronger than ever. The sanctions are a failure, and are only leading to inflationary pressure for food and fuel in the West. This is why people criticized sanctions back in 2022.
The Russian economy in 2023 outpaced both the United States and Europe in terms of growth, increasing in size by 3.6% despite being subject to a wide array of powerful economic sanctions and being cut off from major global markets.
Do I need Russia's approval to speak the truth? What did I say that was false?
so says 'Rosstat, Russia's Federal State Statistics Service' - pimpinForPutin hey Shady! Attributed to Russian war spending stimulating its economy... is that sustainable, hey Shady?
Russia inflation rate @7.4% in 2023, down from 11.9% in 2022... the Russian central bank has raised interest rates to ~16%. All good, hey Shady!
-
Russia's economy is stronger than ever. The sanctions are a failure, and are only leading to inflationary pressure for food and fuel in the West. This is why people criticized sanctions back in 2022.
The Russian economy in 2023 outpaced both the United States and Europe in terms of growth, increasing in size by 3.6% despite being subject to a wide array of powerful economic sanctions and being cut off from major global markets.
https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-economy-grew-in-2023-despite-war-and-sanctions/7478952.html
Pays to read the whole article.
However, growth appears to have been driven mostly by ramped-up spending on the military, as the Kremlin continues its full-scale invasion of Ukraine that it launched nearly two years ago, leading some economists to question whether the growth is sustainable and what side effects it might have.
...
According to Shatz, the Russian government spent about $353.8 billion (32.4 trillion rubles) in 2023, up from a little more than 31 trillion rubles in 2022. But those numbers far outstrip prewar levels of spending. The federal budget in 2021 was only $270 billion (24.8 trillion rubles).
"They're supporting defense industries. They're supporting employment. They're paying people bonuses to join the armed forces," Shatz said. "They're paying families for service members who are killed. They're paying service members who are wounded, who are lucky enough to get sent home."
The Kremlin has funded these outlays by increasing tax revenues, drawing down the national wealth fund, and most importantly, by borrowing. The government deficit is historically high right now, at nearly 10% of the overall budget.
-
oh my! CPC MPs confronted by criticism that PoiLIEvre is MIA on the Ukraine file!
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9iOzJc.png)
-
The Pope’s now being called a Putin stooge by the usual degenerates because he’s advocating peace now.
Pope Francis: Ukraine should have the courage of the ‘white flag’ and negotiate an end of the war with Russia
https://apnews.com/article/pope-ukraine-war-russia-negotiations-defeat-turkey-6adb3177a654489255ac4bcbf0319ffb
Who’s also been saying this! Oh yeah, me. 😎
-
You're definitely a Putin stooge. Do you think Putin would stoop so low as to threaten to use child abuse kompramat on the Catholic Church?
-
The Pope’s now being called a Putin stooge by the usual degenerates because he’s advocating peace now.
Pope Francis: Ukraine should have the courage of the ‘white flag’ and negotiate an end of the war with Russia
https://apnews.com/article/pope-ukraine-war-russia-negotiations-defeat-turkey-6adb3177a654489255ac4bcbf0319ffb
Who’s also been saying this! Oh yeah, me. 😎
Bold of you to align yourself with the Woke Pope.
-
the G&M Editorial Board, no less! And, recent survey showing the identified party line support (or lack therein) for Ukraine:
=> 43% of those who identified as 2021 CPC voters state Canada is offering "too much support" to Ukraine.
(https://i.imgur.com/SHmdYBQ.png)
today, the Senate passed the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement... paving the way for it to be passed into law! Following in sync with their HoC CPC Conservative MPs, ALL Conservative Senators voted against it!
-
today, the Senate passed the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement... paving the way for it to be passed into law! Following in sync with their HoC CPC Conservative MPs, ALL Conservative Senators voted against it!
Liberals should support Ukraine by supporting Canadian gas and oil to replace Putin’s monopoly.
-
Canada could be supplying Europe, particularly Germany with much needed natural gas.
Liberals should support Ukraine by supporting Canadian gas and oil to replace Putin’s monopoly.
you're so full of it! Again, don't ignore the following - read these following posts!
... as it stands: The Liberal federal government approved both Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain and Enbridge’s Line 3 pipelines... while also being in favour of, supportive of, TC Energy's Keystone XL.
PeePee, and YOU, are so f'n stoopid to presume its just a nothingBurger to resurrect the Energy East pipeline! Notwithstanding other issues like:
=> there isn't a viable business case for pipeline gas to exported LNG
=> Europe can get... is getting... cheaper LNG than it ever could from Canada
=> Europe has cut back on its demand for... its need for gas.
=> there are no LNG ports in Atlantic Canada! Because of poor economics, both Repsol and Pieridae Energy scuttled their plans to develop LNG ports in, respectively, New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.
geezaz waldo, how does Pierre (Shady's on a first name basis with PeePee), presume to so easily resurrect the Energy East pipeline? Cause sure, sure... PoiLIEvre can deal with all the original barriers/opposition to the Energy East pipeline (in what f'n timeline?) while also resurrecting the development of LNG port(s) in Atlantic Canada (in what f'n timeline?)... all the while going up against the facts that the financials for both don't support viable business cases to do so?
meanwhile back to reality, imports of Russian gas to the EU are significantly down when compared to levels before Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Per Eurostat figures, in the 4th quarter of 2021, 33% of the EU's gas came from Russia. Two years later, in the 4th quarter of 2023, that amount is down to 13%:
(https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/0/08/F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG/1400px-F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG)
-
today, the Senate passed the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement... paving the way for it to be passed into law! Following in sync with their HoC CPC Conservative MPs, ALL Conservative Senators voted against it!
the Governor General has granted Royal Assent to Bill C-57: An Act to implement the 2023 Free Trade Agreement between Canada and Ukraine
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJEU9l4WcAAdu77?format=jpg)
again, with all Conservative MPs and Senators voting against Bill C-57!
(https://i.imgur.com/v8cE0Fw.jpeg)
-
the Governor General has granted Royal Assent to Bill C-57: An Act to implement the 2023 Free Trade Agreement between Canada and Ukraine
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJEU9l4WcAAdu77?format=jpg)
again, with all Conservative MPs and Senators voting against Bill C-57!
(https://i.imgur.com/v8cE0Fw.jpeg)
Putin loves Trudeau’s energy policy and carbon taxes. Junior is making Putin a very rich man. 😂
-
Putin loves PM Trudeau’s energy policy and carbon taxes. PM Trudeau is making Putin a very rich man. 😂
how so, lil' buddy? How so - you can answer, right? Sure you can!
-
how so, lil' buddy? How so - you can answer, right? Sure you can!
Canada could be supplying Europe, particularly Germany with much needed natural gas.
-
Canada could be supplying Europe, particularly Germany with much needed natural gas.
Liberals should support Ukraine by supporting Canadian gas and oil to replace Putin’s monopoly.
you're so full of it! Again, don't ignore the following - read these following posts!
... as it stands: The Liberal federal government approved both Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain and Enbridge’s Line 3 pipelines... while also being in favour of, supportive of, TC Energy's Keystone XL.
PeePee, and YOU, are so f'n stoopid to presume its just a nothingBurger to resurrect the Energy East pipeline! Notwithstanding other issues like:
=> there isn't a viable business case for pipeline gas to exported LNG
=> Europe can get... is getting... cheaper LNG than it ever could from Canada
=> Europe has cut back on its demand for... its need for gas.
=> there are no LNG ports in Atlantic Canada! Because of poor economics, both Repsol and Pieridae Energy scuttled their plans to develop LNG ports in, respectively, New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.
geezaz waldo, how does Pierre (Shady's on a first name basis with PeePee), presume to so easily resurrect the Energy East pipeline? Cause sure, sure... PoiLIEvre can deal with all the original barriers/opposition to the Energy East pipeline (in what f'n timeline?) while also resurrecting the development of LNG port(s) in Atlantic Canada (in what f'n timeline?)... all the while going up against the facts that the financials for both don't support viable business cases to do so?
meanwhile back to reality, imports of Russian gas to the EU are significantly down when compared to levels before Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Per Eurostat figures, in the 4th quarter of 2021, 33% of the EU's gas came from Russia. Two years later, in the 4th quarter of 2023, that amount is down to 13%:
(https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/0/08/F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG/1400px-F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG)
-
you're so full of it! Again, don't ignore the following - read these following posts!
The Trudeau government purposely makes it economically unviable with it's regulations and punitive taxes like the carbon tax.
-
The Trudeau government purposely makes it economically unviable with it's regulations and punitive taxes like the carbon tax.
sure, sure! Is this you now realizing PoiLIEvre just can't simply say he'll revive the Energy East pipeline... and it happens? Is this you realizing more than PeePee magic beans are needed?
-
you're so full of it! Again, don't ignore the following - read these following posts!
Looks like the big beneficiary of gas exports to Europe has been the US. Why not Canada?
-
Looks like the big beneficiary of gas exports to Europe has been the US. Why not Canada?
Exactly. I think it's because we have a government in power that doesn't want that to happen.
-
Exactly. I think it's because we have a government in power that doesn't want that to happen.
Sounds like you want to nationalize LNG production and export. I can't see nay other way to get infrastructure built that the private sector is unwilling to build themselves.
-
Sounds like you want to nationalize LNG production and export. I can't see nay other way to get infrastructure built that the private sector is unwilling to build themselves.
Why would we need to nationalize? The United States didn't, and they seem to be doing quite well exporting natural gas to Europe.
-
Why would we need to nationalize? The United States didn't, and they seem to be doing quite well exporting natural gas to Europe.
hey PoiLIEvre/Shady, as a 'no details' talking point intent, it's quite easy to simply say you'll resurrect the 'Energy East' pipeline and build those 2 cancelled Atlantic Canada LNG export terminals. Notwithstanding significant opposition to the pipeline, that no viable business cases exist to do so, that Europe has significantly cut back on its use of Russian gas, that Europe is getting cheaper LNG than it ever could from Canada, and that Europe has significantly shifted much of its energy requirements to alternate renewable options (and continues to do so), practically speaking, just how will PeePee and YOU make it so... and in what timeline?
-
again, with all Conservative MPs and Senators voting against Bill C-57!
(https://i.imgur.com/v8cE0Fw.jpeg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKGaqPaWYAA9DTV?format=jpg)
-
hey PoiLIEvre/Shady, as a 'no details' talking point intent, it's quite easy to simply say you'll resurrect the 'Energy East' pipeline and build those 2 cancelled Atlantic Canada LNG export terminals. Notwithstanding significant opposition to the pipeline, that no viable business cases exist to do so, that Europe has significantly cut back on its use of Russian gas, that Europe is getting cheaper LNG than it ever could from Canada, and that Europe has significantly shifted much of its energy requirements to alternate renewable options (and continues to do so), practically speaking, just how will PeePee and YOU make it so... and in what timeline?
Why are other countries able to do it? Why is Trudeau supporting a pro-Russian energy policy?
-
Why are other countries able to do it?
again, lil' buddy! Practically speaking, just how will PoiLIEvre and YOU make it so... and in what timeline?
Why is PM Trudeau supporting a pro-Russian energy policy?
PutinistaShady says what? But ya, sure... sure... care to expand on this bullshyte of yours - sure you can!
-
Why are other countries able to do it? Why is Trudeau supporting a pro-Russian energy policy?
lol you can't actually answer the question her about what PP would do to get Canadian LNG to European markets.
-
lol you can't actually answer the question her about what PP would do to get Canadian LNG to European markets.
Not completely botch a pipeline. That would be a good start. It's funny that other countries can get it done, but not Canada.
-
Not completely botch a pipeline. That would be a good start.
What pipeline?
It's funny that other countries can get it done, but not Canada.
Ok what exactly are they doing that we're not, specifically?
-
What pipeline?
Ok what exactly are they doing that we're not, specifically?
Energy East.
They’re shipping oil and natural gas to Europe, and making money doing it.
-
Energy East.
Energy East was a diluted bitumen pipeline, not a natural gas pipeline you dumbass.
They’re shipping oil and natural gas to Europe, and making money doing it.
Yeah I figured you wouldn't have an actual answer. Moron.
-
Yeah I figured you wouldn't have an actual answer. Moron.
Actually it is exactly what they have been doing that we haven't.
-
Actually it is exactly what they have been doing that we haven't.
Come on, man. Don’t be dumb.
-
Come on, man. Don’t be dumb.
Not dumb at all. Don't be ignorant.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55920
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61584
-
Actually it is exactly what they have been doing that we haven't.
notwithstanding the overt outright opposition to the Energy East pipeline... that even if there was a market (which there isn't) and all of the following could be resolved/reconciled, energy expert estimates peg it would take a decade+ to realize LNG exports from Atlantic Canada... but hey, a real nothingBurger, right wilber?
you state, "Trudeau has refused"... refused what? As it stands: The Liberal federal government approved both Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain and Enbridge’s Line 3 pipelines... while also being in favour of, supportive of, TC Energy's Keystone XL.
PeePee, and YOU, are so f'n stoopid to presume its just a nothingBurger to resurrect the Energy East pipeline! Notwithstanding other issues like:
=> there isn't a viable business case for pipeline gas to exported LNG
=> Europe can get... is getting... cheaper LNG than it ever could from Canada
=> Europe has cut back on its demand for... its need for gas.
=> there are no LNG ports in Atlantic Canada! Because of poor economics, both Repsol and Pieridae Energy scuttled their plans to develop LNG ports in, respectively, New Brunswick & Nova Scotia.
-
notwithstanding the overt outright opposition to the Energy East pipeline... that even if there was a market (which there isn't) and all of the following could be resolved/reconciled, energy expert estimates peg it would take a decade+ to realize LNG exports from Atlantic Canada... but hey, a real nothingBurger, right wilber?
The nothing burger is the US has been pocketing billions from exports of LNG and oil to Europe while Canada had been pocketing nothing.
And we wonder why we have a 73 cent dollar.
-
Not dumb at all. Don't be ignorant.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55920
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61584
“They’re selling more to Europe because they’re selling more to Europe” doesn’t answer the question, now does it?
-
“They’re selling more to Europe because they’re selling more to Europe” doesn’t answer the question, now does it?
You asked what they are doing that we aren't. I told you.
-
You asked what they are doing that we aren't. I told you.
You’re quite a dim bulb.
-
Here you go:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-europe-lng-exports-poilievre-1.6770852
-
You’re quite a dim bulb.
More projection. It’s funny how obtuse you can be at times, but be an expert with the remedies to all issues facing society. They’re shipping oil and gas, east, to Europe for profit. That’s what they’re doing that we’re not. Does that help at all Einstein?
-
Here you go:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-europe-lng-exports-poilievre-1.6770852
So it's clear that the reason the U.S. is able to sell LNG to Europe is they already had infrastructure in place to export it. It seems that Canadian producers didn't think there was a market and didn't foresee the Russian invasion of Ukraine creating a demand so they didn't build any. Even today, producers are abandoning (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/repsol-scraps-plans-east-coast-canada-lng-terminal-canadian-government-2023-03-16/) LNG projects (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/11/10/news/pieridae-energy-retreats-east-coast-lng-plans) in the east. Is teh expectation that the feds should step in and build their own pipeline and export infrastructure when producers won't?
-
More projection. It’s funny how obtuse you can be at times, but be an expert with the remedies to all issues facing society. They’re shipping oil and gas, east, to Europe for profit. That’s what they’re doing that we’re not. Does that help at all Einstein?
“They’re selling more to Europe because they’re selling more to Europe” doesn’t answer the question, now does it?
Keep trying sparky, maybe someday you'll accidentally get it right.
-
So it's clear that the reason the U.S. is able to sell LNG to Europe is they already had infrastructure in place to export it.
Yes, and our government does everything to prevent it.
It seems that Canadian producers didn't think there was a market and didn't foresee the Russian invasion of Ukraine creating a demand so they didn't build any.
They haven't built any because it's next to impossible to get a project like that complete with the current government in place. Of course there's a market, the United States has been exporting oil and gas east, years before the Ukraine/Russian war. Even if it wasn't for export, it would prevent us from having to import oil from the Middle East on the east coast of Canada. Just another example of anti-economic growth, anti-Canadian industry, and a complete lack of any forward thinking from the Keystone Cops currently in power in Ottawa. And you lemmings continue to make excuses for them, for for this, and every other issue. It's always somebody elses fault, despite being in office for almost a decade. Completely pathetic.
-
Yes, and our government does everything to prevent it.
There are several major LNG projects coming online in B.C. I guess no one told the government to stop them.
They haven't built any because it's next to impossible to get a project like that complete with the current government in place. .
A lot of the political resistance has been at the provincial level, specifically Quebec take it up with them.
Of course there's a market, the United States has been exporting oil and gas east, years before the Ukraine/Russian war
You need to look at a map of where U.S. LNG production happens and where it's export infrastructure is located and then do the same for Canada maybe you'll start to understand why LNG producers like Repsol are balking at big investments in the necessary infrastructure out east.
Even if it wasn't for export, it would prevent us from having to import oil from the Middle East on the east coast of Canada.
Do you honestly not know the difference between LNG and crude oil?
-
Here you go: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-not-interested-in-investing-in-lng-facilities-energy-minister-1.6828149
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-europe-lng-exports-poilievre-1.6770852
whoa Nipples! A 2 go-fetch link, ta da! Yet somehow you can't be bothered to quote from either link, and/or write directly to the salient point(s) you'd like to make - go figure, hey!
-
Even if it wasn't for export, it would prevent us from having to import oil from the Middle East on the east coast of Canada. Just another example of anti-economic growth, anti-Canadian industry, and a complete lack of any forward thinking from the Keystone Cops currently in power in Ottawa. And you lemmings continue to make excuses for them, for for this, and every other issue. It's always somebody elses fault, despite being in office for almost a decade. Completely pathetic.
no! Conceptually the proposed Energy East oil pipeline had very limited designs on the domestic market; it was principally intended as an export vehicle for delivery to the U.S. Gulf Coast - ultimately for the 'Asian market'. As for current oil imports (2022), the significant majority @72% is imported from the U.S., and the only imports from the Middle East come from a single country - Saudi Arabia @17%. More pointedly, cost estimates showed shipping tarsands bitumen for east coast refining would have cost significantly more than the cost of imported oil.
-
Pierre wants to complete the pipeline out east. As a result, Canada would be able to ship Europe natural gas, completely replacing Russian gas. It would cost Putin billions and limit his funding for his war.
Support Canadian natural gas supplementing Europe’s dependency on Russian energy. It’s much cleaner and has important global/political implications in favour of our allies.
geezaz waldo, how does Pierre (Shady's on a first name basis with PeePee), presume to so easily resurrect the Energy East pipeline? Cause sure, sure... PoiLIEvre can deal with all the original barriers/opposition to the Energy East pipeline (in what f'n timeline?) while also resurrecting the development of LNG port(s) in Atlantic Canada (in what f'n timeline?)... all the while going up against the facts that the financials for both don't support viable business cases to do so?
meanwhile back to reality, imports of Russian gas to the EU are significantly down when compared to levels before Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Per Eurostat figures, in the 4th quarter of 2021, 33% of the EU's gas came from Russia. Two years later, in the 4th quarter of 2023, that amount is down to 13%:
(https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/0/08/F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG/1400px-F6Main_partners_for_extra-EU_imports_of_natural_gas.PNG)
-
no! Conceptually the proposed Energy East oil pipeline had very limited designs on the domestic market
Designs can change.
and the only imports from the Middle East come from a single country - Saudi Arabia @17%. More pointedly, cost estimates showed shipping tarsands bitumen for east coast refining would have cost significantly more than the cost of imported oil.
Don't you think that's absurd? The only reason it costs more to refine our own oil than it does to import overseas is because of our own doing, lack of planning foresight, etc.
-
no! Conceptually the proposed Energy East oil pipeline had very limited designs on the domestic market; it was principally intended as an export vehicle for delivery to the U.S. Gulf Coast - ultimately for the 'Asian market'.
Designs can change.
the TransCanada (now TC Energy) application to the National Energy Board included a financial business case that stated an intent to ship ~ 280 tankers (of unrefined oil) to the U.S. Gulf Coast per year... equivalent to more than 80% of the pipelines actual per day capacity. How blindingly cavalier of YOU & PeePee to presume on that business case!
Don't you think that's absurd? The only reason it costs more to refine our own oil than it does to import overseas is because of our own doing, lack of planning foresight, etc
you should really back away at this point! You clearly don't realize the Saudi price manipulation that presents that 'cheap Saudi oil' for import. Nor do you have any grasp of what it takes (costs) to dilute bitumen for pipeline transfer, or what capability (costs) it requires for a refinery to be able to process bitumen. Again, notwithstanding all the opposition against the Energy East proposal... care to show a business case that presents a price advantage for tarsands bitumen over the current imports of oil to Eastern Canada? Sure you can!