Canadian Politics Today

Beyond Canada => American Politics => Topic started by: Omni on February 27, 2021, 03:57:03 pm


Title: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2021, 03:57:03 pm
Marjorie Greene refuses to wear a mask, Ted Cruz fucks off for a holidays to Mexico abandoning his responsibility, and of course there's dippity doo don donny the idiot who was elected as their leader. I wouldn't give a fiddelly arse **** except we share such a long border with these idiots. I don't want to die of Covid. Do you?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on February 27, 2021, 04:04:48 pm
I don't think the US is the problem.  Right-wing populism is on the rise throughout the world.  From Brexit and Brazil to India and Hungary. 

The 21st century is going to be an interesting era with regards to both acceptance of science and multi-culturalism. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 27, 2021, 04:20:36 pm
The GOP is a disease of stupidity and has been for decades.

I have a friend who lives in Kentucky and he said they're getting ready to get vaccinated and half of his co-workers have decided not to get vaccinated.  People like this could be the reason new variants pop up that could possibly turn COVID into something annual like the flu if we don't get ahead of it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2021, 04:22:55 pm
I don't think the US is the problem.  Right-wing populism is on the rise throughout the world.  From Brexit and Brazil to India and Hungary. 

The 21st century is going to be an interesting era with regards to both acceptance of science and multi-culturalism.

I agree with much of  what you say. I used to travel a lot around the world for work. I guess it just scares me a bit to hear that therre are groups that want to reinstate Trumpty dyumpty March 4th because os some **** up political outfit they have down there.  Let's hope they are not stupid enough to do that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 27, 2021, 05:01:29 pm
Canadian politicians, mostly right-wingers from what I’ve seen, are also going on vacation during a world-wide pandemic.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Omni on March 22, 2021, 09:54:38 pm
Too bad Donny Trump wasn't in Boulder CO. today. Along with a bunch of other dumb ass yankees who support the idea of everybody having the rite to carry a gun. Especially an AR-15. If they simply shot the **** out of each other the world would be a safer place. Let's see, second mass shooting in a week in the US? Carry on you stupid assholes, I'm busy building a wall to keep you out.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 23, 2021, 09:14:26 pm
Wanna bet that Americans don’t have any sort of campaign not to mention the shooter’s name?  I think a lot of Americans will want people to be reminded of a Muslim sounding name.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Omni on March 23, 2021, 11:05:15 pm
Wanna bet that Americans don’t have any sort of campaign not to mention the shooter’s name?  I think a lot of Americans will want people to be reminded of a Muslim sounding name.

Certainly the NRA idiots will go down that road. They'll continue to blame it on the name of the man as they head down to their local gun store to buy another AR-15 as they continue to support that stupid 2nd amendment. . The flag tenders must be getting a bit tired running those flags up and down the pole so often. I'd say just leave the fuckin' flags down as there will likely be yet another mass shooter stepping out after a visit to the local gun store soon.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on March 24, 2021, 12:19:26 pm
The Qanon congresswoman was part of the mob...  :D

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/kfile-marjorie-taylor-greene-ally-us-capitol/index.html
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on March 24, 2021, 02:30:24 pm
The Qanon congresswoman was part of the mob...  :D

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/kfile-marjorie-taylor-greene-ally-us-capitol/index.html

Her bff was, not her.   She was in the chamber at the time, i would think.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on March 24, 2021, 05:21:37 pm
Blarfh you are right...booooo
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on May 22, 2021, 01:52:55 am
I have been growing disillusioned about American politics for quite some time. I went from being a staunch Republican, to a RINO, to unaffiliated, to Democrat, and now I just want to wash my hands of the whole matter. Both parties are money-driven and the so called Party of the People of which I am a registered voter now doesn't really represent the people any more effectively than the GOP.

What to do, what to do....? Become unaffiliated again? Maryland is nearly last in the presidential primaries so what's party membership matter anymore. Change back to Republican and be a RINO? That would help me in Carroll County elections and elections for state delegate/state senator so I could vote in those primaries, but I'm just not "feeling it" anymore (that is, I stayed away from the GOP for a reason).

The Republicans, who are too far to the right, disgust me. The Democrats, who are too far to the left, scare me. Shall I secede and declare my house a sovereign republic, like Peter Griffin did on Family Guy? (very early episode...) Or just turn my eyes away from all political news and information, and embrace the rather inaccurate proverb "ignorance is bliss"?

*&#$%!

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 22, 2021, 06:52:34 am
The only left aspect of the Dems is the slight nod to the woke movement.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Omni on May 27, 2021, 10:55:42 pm
As if things weren't bad enough for the US under Trump, now they have Marjorie Taylor Green to be embarrased about. She now compares democrats to Nazis. What a sleezy stupid **** **** she demonstrates. Maybe she should just shut TFU and swing around a brass pole in a sleezy bar, which is where she should be taken "seriously". Unfortunately there seem to be enough sleezy Americans who will take her seriously. now I'm stepping back to the border to continue building my wall.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 28, 2021, 04:42:39 am
This is what they want politics to be: pro wrestling.

Luckily they have hundreds of thousands dead to remind them that government exists to solve problems.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on June 18, 2021, 04:49:49 am
MH: I think it's more than a slight nod.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on June 18, 2021, 06:36:15 am
MH: I think it's more than a slight nod.

Maybe, but do you think we're going to get reparations, restored affirmative action, or any real left programs from this?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on August 22, 2021, 10:36:34 pm
Maybe, but do you think we're going to get reparations, restored affirmative action, or any real left programs from this?

Reparations? Only for the descendants of slaves, or are we going to give them to everyone the government has screwed over since 1776?

We still have affirmative action.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on August 23, 2021, 05:37:39 am
I think that the hard right in the US is imitating the left, which is a bad sign.

Socialism is creeping forward.  There would never have been a candidate like Bernie Sanders a generation or more ago.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on August 23, 2021, 07:00:06 am
I think that the hard right in the US is imitating the left, which is a bad sign.

Socialism is creeping forward.  There would never have been a candidate like Bernie Sanders a generation or more ago.

Several generations ago someone like him would certainly be in Congress. But not as a member: he'd be answering awkward questions to the House Committee on Unamerican Activities about his socialism. (Not saying I want to go back to that though)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on August 23, 2021, 07:51:42 am
And as has been pointed out - he's a centrist when you scale him against European parties.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on August 25, 2021, 01:26:01 am
And as has been pointed out - he's a centrist when you scale him against European parties.

I know what you mean by that, but it's also apples and oranges. People tend to see the rest of the world through the lens of their own culture/country/whatever, and sometimes that lens has spots on it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on August 25, 2021, 05:59:07 am
Your comment here applies to the USA since the rest of the Western world is more similar to each other than to them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on August 25, 2021, 03:19:00 pm
Your comment here applies to the USA since the rest of the Western world is more similar to each other than to them.

In what way?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on August 25, 2021, 03:38:17 pm
In what way?
The most obvious difference is that the US is effectively the West's only real super-rogue power.  Britain and France are just for show.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on August 25, 2021, 05:34:35 pm
In what way?

Universal healthcare, state media, funded public education, religious influence is limited, Strong social safety nets...

Like that
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on August 26, 2021, 08:30:33 pm
It's painful watching America's conservative populist pundits struggle to wrap their stupid heads around the root causes behind the Taliban's humiliation of the US.

What's really amazing is how many of their sentiments would have  brought nothing but condemnation if not death threats if they'd been voiced during the build up of rationalizations used to justify America's invasion of Afghanistan not to mention Iraq.

The decision to invade Iraq is probably the main reason Afghanistan became such a mess.  America cut and ran from it's responsibility in Afghanistan in 2003 not last week.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on August 26, 2021, 08:40:47 pm
They're taking about going back? 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on August 26, 2021, 09:07:52 pm

The decision to invade Iraq is probably the main reason Afghanistan became such a mess.  America cut and ran from it's responsibility in Afghanistan in 2003 not last week.

I think this was a project doomed to fail no matter what.   Just like Vietnam you'd have to essentially kill all of the insurgents in order to stop them from fighting.

Afghanistan is a country filled with a lot of violent Muslim extremists and there's not much to be done about that save killing them all, which is virtually impossible.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on August 26, 2021, 10:05:12 pm
I think this was a project doomed to fail no matter what.

Saying that 20 years ago would elicit death threats. Of course everyone's saying it now.

It's hard to feel much pity for Biden and the Democrats who seem to be wearing the failure and blame for America's humiliation. They stood shoulder to shoulder for wading into this fiasco from day 1 too.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 02, 2021, 10:49:05 pm
Roe v Wade has essentially been overturned if states choose to go that way.

Quote
The law is unusual in that it gives private citizens the power to enforce it by enabling them to sue abortion providers and anyone who "aids or abets" an abortion after six weeks. Citizens who win such lawsuits would be entitled to at least $10,000.

Abortion providers say the law could lead to hundreds of costly lawsuits that would be logistically difficult to defend.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/texas-abortion-law-supreme-court-1.6160844

A bizarre law that allows private citizens to collect bounties from anyone who helps a woman get an abortion after 6 Wks. 

The Supreme Court refused to hear an injunction appeal.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on October 21, 2021, 07:22:08 pm
I was watching part one of The World At War, a documentary from the 1970s on Youtube. It was a little eerie how some of the descriptions of Hitler coming to power resonated with today's America. Not that Trump is Hitler. Not saying that.  But the way he was supported by 'industrialists who thought they could control him and old party people who thought they had him well in hand. And then the part where they talk about the military taking new oaths "Where once they had sworn an oath to the constitution, now they swore to him, by name." I'm willing to bet Trump would have had everyone in government swearing a loyalty oath to him rather than the constitution.

And despite that and all the revelations since he left office almost all the Republican base wants him to run again and Republican politicians quiver in fear of incurring his displeasure and say anything he tells them to say.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 15, 2021, 07:22:45 pm
Seems people look at the lunatic Republicans, then look at the woke progressive racial and gender politics zealots of the Democratic party and the tired old man temporarily in charge and decide they'd rather vote Republican.

Republicans hold largest edge in early midterm vote preferences in 40 years: poll

https://thehill.com/homenews/581475-republicans-hold-largest-edge-in-early-midterm-vote-preferences-in-40-years-poll
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 15, 2021, 09:10:09 pm
Seems people look at the lunatic Republicans, then look at the woke progressive racial and gender politics zealots of the Democratic party and the tired old man temporarily in charge and decide they'd rather vote Republican.

Republicans hold largest edge in early midterm vote preferences in 40 years: poll

https://thehill.com/homenews/581475-republicans-hold-largest-edge-in-early-midterm-vote-preferences-in-40-years-poll

Which racial and gender politics zealots are those?  Be specific about which senators or house members you’re talking about.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 16, 2021, 12:21:20 pm
Which racial and gender politics zealots are those?  Be specific about which senators or house members you’re talking about.

All of 'the squad' along with their supporters, and innumerable municipal and state democrats throughout the country. And the problem is even those who aren't big supporters won't speak against it, much as so many Republicans might disapprove of Trump but don't dare say a word against him.

According to the NYT the Republicans have already created enough new safe seats through gerrymandering to take back to the House next year even without any additional vote gains. They'll likely take the Senate too. And there is a strong move there among Republicans for a constitutional convention to change the US constitution to weaken federal powers and perhaps even allow the states to override supreme court rulings. They've already had almost enough states sign onto it. Republicans and their billionaire backers have spent a fortune on state contests while the Democrats yawned, and they're paying the price.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 16, 2021, 02:12:39 pm
All of 'the squad' along with their supporters, and innumerable municipal and state democrats throughout the country. And the problem is even those who aren't big supporters won't speak against it, much as so many Republicans might disapprove of Trump but don't dare say a word against him.

According to the NYT the Republicans have already created enough new safe seats through gerrymandering to take back to the House next year even without any additional vote gains. They'll likely take the Senate too. And there is a strong move there among Republicans for a constitutional convention to change the US constitution to weaken federal powers and perhaps even allow the states to override supreme court rulings. They've already had almost enough states sign onto it. Republicans and their billionaire backers have spent a fortune on state contests while the Democrats yawned, and they're paying the price.

So you can’t even think of a single example of one in government?  Ok then….
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 17, 2021, 02:19:15 pm
Seems people look at the lunatic Republicans, then look at the woke progressive racial and gender politics zealots of the Democratic party and the tired old man temporarily in charge and decide they'd rather vote Republican.

Republicans hold largest edge in early midterm vote preferences in 40 years: poll

https://thehill.com/homenews/581475-republicans-hold-largest-edge-in-early-midterm-vote-preferences-in-40-years-poll

It's been wild watching the consent machine go brrrrrrrr over the last few months as even with a booming economy and the Biden agenda getting sabotaged by so-called centrists, the media continues to obsess over wokeness and the overall size of Biden's spending bills (instead of the many popular policies they contain).

Which is weird because really dumb people keep talking about how the media has been taken over by woke lefties.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 18, 2021, 12:39:11 pm
How many in the squad ?  Six ?

They want to elect Trump instead of an entire party with those six ?

Insane
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 19, 2021, 03:19:25 pm
It’s not ‘polarization.’ We suffer from Republican radicalization.
 (https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2F2021%2F11%2F18%2Fits-not-polarization-we-suffer-republican-radicalization)

Quote
While it’s true that the country is more deeply divided along partisan lines than it has been in the past, it is wrong to suggest a symmetrical devolution into irrational hatred. The polarization argument too often treats both sides as equally worthy of blame, characterizing the problem as a sort of free-floating affliction (e.g., “lack of trust”). This blurs the distinction between a Democratic Party that is marginally more progressive in policy positions than it was a decade ago, and a Republican Party that routinely lies, courts violence and seeks to define America as a White Christian nation.

The Republican Party’s tolerance of violence is not matched by Democrats. Nor is the Republican Party’s refusal to recognize the sanctity of elections. Democrats did not call the elections they lost in 2020 and 2021 “rigged,” nor are they seeking to replace nonpartisan election officials with partisan lawmakers. Republicans’ determination to change voting laws based on their insistence that Donald Trump won the 2020 election is without historical precedent.


Read the whole thing. Anyone who tries to draw equivalency between some Dem's embrace of identity politics or positions like defunding the police and the GOP's wholesale surrender to violence and nihilism is not to be taken seriously.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 19, 2021, 03:54:44 pm
Kyle Rittenhouse, the little wannabe cop turned vigilante who killed two people and seriously injured a third, was acquitted by an overwhelmingly white jury.

I dunno how this doesn't codify the right of anyone* to go out armed, start trouble and then shoot someone and claim self-defense. What a **** up country.





*white people
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 19, 2021, 04:30:06 pm
How many in the squad ?  Six ?

They want to elect Trump instead of an entire party with those six ?

Insane

I didn't say it made sense. I'm kind of surprised at how far his popularity has fallen. The repetition of him being a senile old man must be paying dividends. But the Republicans are also playing to emotional/instinctive desires for security which the Democrats are very vulnerable to given their attacks on police over the last year and the shifting of their previously held belief in tight border security to an almost hysterical anti-security stance against the Border Patrol and ICE. Their harping on the racial politics being taught in schools is really doing well, too, as is the racial politics the administration is playing.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 19, 2021, 04:34:35 pm
Kyle Rittenhouse, the little wannabe cop turned vigilante who killed two people and seriously injured a third, was acquitted by an overwhelmingly white jury.

I dunno how this doesn't codify the right of anyone* to go out armed, start trouble and then shoot someone and claim self-defense. What a **** up country.
In that state you're allowed to open carry. Might be dumb as **** but it's the law. The people killed were attacking him at the time, even as he ran away. That's a pretty powerful argument for self-defense. Maybe it's not such a bright idea to chase after a guy holding an AK47 screaming threats to kill him.

One of those killed was a convicted child molester. The funniest quote I heard was 'He died doing what he loved, chasing after minors."


Quote
*white people

Are great people! Or had you meant to suggest something else?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 19, 2021, 05:57:53 pm
Kyle Rittenhouse, the little wannabe cop turned vigilante who killed two people and seriously injured a third, was acquitted by an overwhelmingly white jury.

I dunno how this doesn't codify the right of anyone* to go out armed, start trouble and then shoot someone and claim self-defense. What a **** up country.




*white people


It’s not surprising…. It probably aligns with the laws too.  If you’re 17 and want to carry around an ar-15 on the streets, you are allowed.  If someone says something, or does something, that makes you feel in the least bit threatened, you are allowed to shoot them with that gun you happen to be holding, as is your right. 

Is it justice?  F*ck no…. It’s about as stupid as it can get in terms of how to govern a country.  Would he have been convicted if he were black and the others where white?  Probably.  Although, I haven’t seen something directly comparable yet. 

As you said….  What a fuckin’ country.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 19, 2021, 06:37:22 pm
^ this
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 19, 2021, 07:56:40 pm
Would he have been convicted if he were black and the others where white?

As you said….  What a fuckin’ country.
And yet it still stands as the Shiniest Beacon in the known universe for freedom that millions are willing to risk their lives to get to.

Would Rittenhouse have been convicted if he were Democrat and his targets were Republican?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 19, 2021, 11:32:20 pm
Kyle Rittenhouse, the little wannabe cop turned vigilante who killed two people and seriously injured a third, was acquitted by an overwhelmingly white jury.

What does race have to do with the trial?  A mostly white jury doesn't mean anything, it's not like the people he killed were black lol.

It's amazing how people are politicizing this trial.  People on the left don't like him politically and so don't actually care about the law or the evidence and treat him as someone not worthy of rights or a fair trial.

He was acquitted because the evidence was pretty convincing that he acted in self-defense.  They had video evidence of it.  The means of self-defense looked pretty disproportionate especially vs Rosenbaum, but it was still self-defense.  If he's guilty of anything it's putting himself within a very dangerous situation, being out after curfew like the rest of them, and maybe some gun possession charges.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 19, 2021, 11:37:23 pm

It’s not surprising…. It probably aligns with the laws too.  If you’re 17 and want to carry around an ar-15 on the streets, you are allowed.  If someone says something, or does something, that makes you feel in the least bit threatened, you are allowed to shoot them with that gun you happen to be holding, as is your right. 

Is it justice?  F*ck no…. It’s about as stupid as it can get in terms of how to govern a country.  Would he have been convicted if he were black and the others where white?  Probably.  Although, I haven’t seen something directly comparable yet. 

As you said….  What a fuckin’ country.

He's not allowed to carry around an AR-15 after curfew at age 17, that's illegal, but doesn't really affect the charges.  Also no you're not allowed to just shoot someone for saying something, which doesn't matter here because that's not why he was acquitted, he was physically attacked by multiple people.

The judge seemed politically biased unfortunately, but I don't really see how it affected the evidence or the jury's decision.

Most people on the left i've seen thinks he should have been found guilty because they don't actually care about the law or the evidence, they just hate the kid and his politics.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 19, 2021, 11:38:33 pm
Seems people look at the lunatic Republicans, then look at the woke progressive racial and gender politics zealots of the Democratic party and the tired old man temporarily in charge and decide they'd rather vote Republican.

Republicans hold largest edge in early midterm vote preferences in 40 years: poll

https://thehill.com/homenews/581475-republicans-hold-largest-edge-in-early-midterm-vote-preferences-in-40-years-poll

GOP is such a trash party, most of them are total idiots and ignorant hillbillies.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 19, 2021, 11:41:31 pm
In that state you're allowed to open carry. Might be dumb as **** but it's the law. The people killed were attacking him at the time, even as he ran away. That's a pretty powerful argument for self-defense. Maybe it's not such a bright idea to chase after a guy holding an AK47 screaming threats to kill him.

One of those killed was a convicted child molester. The funniest quote I heard was 'He died doing what he loved, chasing after minors."

Agree with all of this.  It's really, really stupid to be allowed to open-carry an AR-15.  It's insane.  It's also insane to threaten and then throw stuff at and then charge a guy holding an AR-15.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 05:54:14 am
It feels like the US now has a strategy to arm the culture war.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 20, 2021, 09:49:01 am
It feels like the US now has a strategy to arm the culture war.

It certainly seems the impetus for civil war just got a little stronger.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 10:19:54 am
What does race have to do with the trial?  A mostly white jury doesn't mean anything, it's not like the people he killed were black lol.

What does race have to do with a white kid picking up a gun and going to a protest over the police shooting of a black man, hmm that's a head-scratcher.

Quote
It's amazing how people are politicizing this trial.  People on the left don't like him politically and so don't actually care about the law or the evidence and treat him as someone not worthy of rights or a fair trial.

He was acquitted because the evidence was pretty convincing that he acted in self-defense.  They had video evidence of it.  The means of self-defense looked pretty disproportionate especially vs Rosenbaum, but it was still self-defense.  If he's guilty of anything it's putting himself within a very dangerous situation, being out after curfew like the rest of them, and maybe some gun possession charges.

Yeah and like I said, the precedent here is anyone can now insert themselves into a dangerous situation and when things escalate, kill people and claim self -defense. Of course that won't be applied equally.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 10:38:25 am
In that state you're allowed to open carry. Might be dumb as **** but it's the law. The people killed were attacking him at the time, even as he ran away. That's a pretty powerful argument for self-defense. Maybe it's not such a bright idea to chase after a guy holding an AK47 screaming threats to kill him.

One of those killed was a convicted child molester. The funniest quote I heard was 'He died doing what he loved, chasing after minors."

The first guy he killed was a mentally-ill man who had just been dumped out of hospital after a recent suicide attempt. The other two people he shot were two people trying to disarm an active shooter. If the third guy had shot and killed Rittenhouse, he would have been justified in doing so under Wisconsin law.

Quote
Are great people! Or had you meant to suggest something else?

If Rittenhouse were Black and his victims white, I'd bet my last dollar things would have gone differently.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 10:41:38 am
And yet it still stands as the Shiniest Beacon in the known universe for freedom that millions are willing to risk their lives to get to.

Would Rittenhouse have been convicted if he were Democrat and his targets were Republican?

No. He wouldn't have even made it to trial.

Michael Reinoehl, the Portland antifa member who shot a Proud Boy who was attacking him with pepper spray, was tracked down and summarily executed byUS Marshalls at the behest of the then-President.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 12:53:39 pm
The first guy he killed was a mentally-ill man who had just been dumped out of hospital after a recent suicide attempt. The other two people he shot were two people trying to disarm an active shooter. If the third guy had shot and killed Rittenhouse, he would have been justified in doing so under Wisconsin law.

Regardless of what you and other lefties think about American law it's pretty clear in allowing for people like him to take out guns to defend both themselves and others from violence. He was legally standing around that car dealership to protect it from rioters. When he headed for another dealer a number of people confronted him. He, according to video, dodged away from them and ran off, and they pursued him. Now I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me it's hard to justify chasing after a guy who hasn't done anything illegal while screaming threats and epithets. And it's particularly **** dumb to do it to someone clutching a high-powered firearm. Everyone who was shot was attacking Rittenhouse, who was trying to flee.

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If Rittenhouse were Black and his victims white, I'd bet my last dollar things would have gone differently.

Bullshit. If OJ Simpson taught us anything it's that money talks, not race in US courtrooms. Rittenhouse had a good lawyer.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 01:01:44 pm
No. He wouldn't have even made it to trial.

Michael Reinoehl, the Portland antifa member who shot a Proud Boy who was attacking him with pepper spray, was tracked down and summarily executed byUS Marshalls at the behest of the then-President.


Ahh, I see. So people who shoot others at demonstrations are proud and noble defenders of the public peace when they agree with you but are otherwise evil far-right fascists. There's no evidence that the guy murdered was ever associated with the Proud Boys, btw, and there is video evidence of the ANTIFA guy hiding as he went by, then coming out after to pursue him. Funny how these alt-left types you admire so much are always chasing after their 'enemies' but always the innocents in every confrontation.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 01:17:44 pm
Regardless of what you and other lefties think about American law it's pretty clear in allowing for people like him to take out guns to defend both themselves and others from violence. He was legally standing around that car dealership to protect it from rioters. When he headed for another dealer a number of people confronted him. He, according to video, dodged away from them and ran off, and they pursued him.

So why didn't he keep running?

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Now I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me it's hard to justify chasing after a guy who hasn't done anything illegal while screaming threats and epithets. And it's particularly **** dumb to do it to someone clutching a high-powered firearm. Everyone who was shot was attacking Rittenhouse, who was trying to flee.

None of this is relevant to my point. It's amazing that the neo-Nazis and other right-wing goons celebrating this verdict understand its implications and you continue to play dumb.

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Bullshit. If OJ Simpson taught us anything it's that money talks, not race in US courtrooms. Rittenhouse had a good lawyer.

And an indifferent prosecution and a hilariously biased judge.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 01:26:03 pm

Ahh, I see. So people who shoot others at demonstrations are proud and noble defenders of the public peace when they agree with you but are otherwise evil far-right fascists.

Nice strawman dumbf*ck. I didn't say jack about Rittenhouse's political leanings here (unless of course you saw I called him a "wannabe cop" and read that as "far-right fascist which is fair enough I guess).

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There's no evidence that the guy murdered was ever associated with the Proud Boys, btw, and there is video evidence of the ANTIFA guy hiding as he went by, then coming out after to pursue him. Funny how these alt-left types you admire so much are always chasing after their 'enemies' but always the innocents in every confrontation.

My mistake, it wasn't the Proud Boys, it was Patriot Prayer, a different group of far-right thugs who had gone into Portland to instigate violent confrontations with protesters. The guy who got shot was carrying a baton and pistol and going around spraying people with bear spray. And according to the logic of American legal system, it doesn't matter if the Reinoehl went out of his way to confront Danielson, if he felt threatened during the course of the confrontation, he was entirely justified in acting in self-defense. Of course we won't really know because Reinoehl didn't get his day in court because he was mowed down in the street without warning by armed agents of the state.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 20, 2021, 01:42:20 pm
What about effecting a patriot citizen's arrest of a cop like Derek Chauvin if/ when they're committing a crime?

We need more people like Rittenhouse patrolling the streets.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 01:47:28 pm
What about effecting a patriot citizen's arrest of a cop like Derek Chauvin if/ when they're committing a crime?

We need more people like Rittenhouse patrolling the streets.


Ah yes what we really need is a war of all against all where the only people in the right are whoever is left alive when the smoke clears. Sounds great dude.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 02:16:54 pm
Regardless of what you and other lefties think about American law it's pretty clear in allowing for people like him to take out guns to defend both themselves and others from violence. He was legally standing around that car dealership to protect it from rioters.

"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 02:17:35 pm
Ah yes what we really need is a war of all against all where the only people in the right are whoever is left alive when the smoke clears. Sounds great dude.

Pretty sure eyeball was being cynical...  (Edited to add) or accelerationist...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 20, 2021, 03:54:29 pm
"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

It's always telling that they focus on the two seconds before he fired the first shot and not the circumstances leading up to that event. Also the focus on the narrow question of the law and ignorance (feigned or genuine) of the larger political and cultural issues around the radicalization of the American right.

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What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 20, 2021, 04:48:00 pm
Ah yes what we really need is a war of all against all where the only people in the right are whoever is left alive when the smoke clears. Sounds great dude.
Sorry, forgot the sarc/off.

And seriously, what's not needed but what we're getting anyway are painfully obvious.

So I wonder how this failed super-power will divvy up its nukes? Presumably there are countries that started
contemplating this last Jan 7th or so.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 04:58:10 pm
It's always telling that they focus on the two seconds before he fired the first shot and not the circumstances leading up to that event. Also the focus on the narrow question of the law and ignorance (feigned or genuine) of the larger political and cultural issues around the radicalization of the American right.

Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.

I can only guess it's the NRA pushing this vision, with Congress and the Republicans getting paid off to enact it.

I really don't understand the political landscape beyond that, ie. how individuals discuss these things in person and decide it's what they want to see happen.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 20, 2021, 05:02:16 pm
Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.
Go tell it to black national milita groups like the Not **** Around Coalition.

sarc/off btw.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:12:12 pm
So why didn't he keep running?

Because he got knocked down.

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None of this is relevant to my point. It's amazing that the neo-Nazis and other right-wing goons celebrating this verdict understand its implications and you continue to play dumb.

Ah, so you know exactly what neo-Nazis think and you know they're right?

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And an indifferent prosecution and a hilariously biased judge.

And charges which should not have been laid. There was an ex-Homocide cop on CNN who talked about this. Said he took weeks and months to get all his facts in order before laying charges in cases much less complicated than this but the charges were laid against this guy really quickly due to political pressure.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:13:57 pm
"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

He was standing around guarding a car dealership. There's nothing new here. Google the story of the Koreans who defended their stores from rioters during the Rodney King riots. Vigilantes? This is a country that has allowed bounty hunters since its inception.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:18:54 pm

My mistake, it wasn't the Proud Boys, it was Patriot Prayer, a different group of far-right thugs who had gone into Portland to instigate violent confrontations with protesters.

I love how you say that so indignantly. Yes, they do. But all they do is go somewhere to pray and that brings out raging, screaming, violent far-left activists. You can blame Patriot Prayer all you want but they're not making these assholes lose their minds and go and attack them. No, no, that's on the crazy people.

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The guy who got shot was carrying a baton and pistol and going around spraying people with bear spray. And according to the logic of American legal system, it doesn't matter if the Reinoehl went out of his way to confront Danielson, if he felt threatened during the course of the confrontation, he was entirely justified in acting in self-defense.

And Reinohel was ALSO armed, which somehow is just fine with you. So it's okay to go armed to a 'demonstration' and to seek a confrontation with a guy and then shoot them because you feel threatened. As long as your politics align with the same far left bullshit as the batshit crazy black dog.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 06:19:44 pm
1. He was standing around guarding a car dealership. There's nothing new here.

2. Google the story of the Koreans who defended their stores from rioters during the Rodney King riots. Vigilantes? This is a country that has allowed bounty hunters since its inception.
1. 17 year old hears about BLM protests in another state.  Gets his mom to take him there so he can "guard" a car dealership that he has no connection to.  Your assertion that there's nothing "new here" is a borderline troll post.

2. Did the Koreans get dropped off by their mom from Oregon or maybe Korea and not own the stores they were defending and were underaged. 

The bountyhunters point is a hail mary pass.

-----

I'm barely aware of your presence here but you don't seem to have situational awareness of the practicality of your argument.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:19:58 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrOCUVJnyZE
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:24:07 pm
1. 17 year old hears about BLM protests in another state.  Gets his mom to take him there so he can "guard" a car dealership that he has no connection to.  Your assertion that there's nothing "new here" is a borderline troll post.

The 17 year old hears about violent riots, you mean? I love how all you people on the Left continue to refer to violent riots as 'protests'. Do you realize what a meme and a joke that has become?

Yes, America has become more divided, and he was joining up with some kind of online group that did such things. Still entirely legal. Not that legalities seem to concern you nearly as much as your sanctimonious indignation.

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The bountyhunters point is a hail mary pass.

They're not vigilantes? Do you even know what the word means? Have you ever even been to the US? Met an American? Know ANYTHING about American culture and attitudes? **** you urban people in Canada are so goddam ignorant and supercilious about everything.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 06:28:33 pm
The 17 year old hears about violent riots, you mean?

Yes, ok.  That actually makes the same amount of sense as hearing about BLM protests.

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I love how all you people on the Left continue to refer to violent riots as 'protests'. Do you realize what a meme and a joke that has become?

Well they are announced as demonstrations and I don't think violence is a required component of the protests but again it's immaterial.

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Yes, America has become more divided, and he was joining up with some kind of online group that did such things. Still entirely legal. Not that legalities seem to concern you nearly as much as your sanctimonious indignation.

Sorry - so are we moving on from your assertion that there's nothing new here ?  Online groups of citizens that organize to attend BLM events with weapons isn't new ? 

You see - you have to concede a point if I counter it and you don't have a response to my criticism.  It's just intellectual honesty. 

I don't think I said it was illegal so you are trying to argue something different. 

I'm not indignant, and whether or not you see me as sanctimonious means nothing to the argument.

Before we continue, let's get you to acknowledge that your assertion that there is nothing new here is wrong, based on your own post here.

Do you accept that ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 06:51:54 pm
Yes, ok.  That actually makes the same amount of sense as hearing about BLM protests.

You mean BLM riots, arsons and lootings, right? No, you can't even bring yourself to think it, much less say it.

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Sorry - so are we moving on from your assertion that there's nothing new here ?  Online groups of citizens that organize to attend BLM events with weapons isn't new ? 

Well, online is new. That's the only new part. Vigilantism has a very long and well-respected history in the US. They're not like **** Canada where a guy who defends his property gets arrested because cringing city people in their high towers make all the rules and can't imagine why anyone would ever need to defend themselves.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 07:00:04 pm
You know, I'm close enough to the centre to despise Trump and the religious kooks and crooks and hypocrites and nuts who surround him. And yet if it came to voting for that group or you lot I think I'd probably be strongly, strongly tempted to vote Trump's ticket. Because you're mostly a bunch of arrogant, hateful scum too, but your hate and contempt is directed more towards anyone who isn't a far-left university-educated urban **** like you. So yeah, Trump's people are scum, but so are you.

Now take that into an American context and imagine how your sort is inspiring centrists across the US to decide they want nothing to do with any party which embraces people like you and your ridiculous, dumbass identitarian gender pronouns and critical race theories and the rest of your woke 'equity' garbage. I suspect the Republicans are going to sweep the election next year and we'll have another trump party guy in power in Washington two years later. And it won't be because people are responding to their message, but to yours. It's YOUR message which turns people to Trump's side. It's people like you American moderates despise. And Canadian moderates too, if you want the truth. I expect separatist sentiment in Alberta to grow over the next couple of years as Trudeau turns the screws on the oil and gas industry, and in two years they just might have a Trump type in office who would welcome a new state...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 07:15:07 pm
Well, online is new. That's the only new part.

Ok.  Thanks.

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Vigilantism has a very long and well-respected history in the US. They're not like **** Canada where a guy who defends his property gets arrested because cringing city people in their high towers make all the rules and can't imagine why anyone would ever need to defend themselves.

I've heard it before. This is 'Defund The Police'. 

I'm glad you are American, you are fostering the kind of community you want.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 07:51:14 pm
Ok.  Thanks.

I've heard it before. This is 'Defund The Police'. 

I'm glad you are American, you are fostering the kind of community you want.

How am I doing that? I think Rittenhouse was an idiot. But the people he shot were even worse idiots and no loss.
Get it through your head I'm a centrist. But the kind of ignorant, arrogant, contemptuous looking down their noses at ordinary people **** I see from some of the fanatical people here is the same **** I see from their counterparts in the US, and it's what's driving more moderate people to hold their noses and vote Republican. The Republicans are vermin but at least they don't hate me, my community, and my family and friends. And they might be racists but they're not racist TOWARDS me and my community and family and friends the way so many of the so-called 'liberals' are. They won't hire or promote a black or brown man or woman above me just because of their skin color or womb.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 09:20:54 pm
1. How am I doing that? 

2. Get it through your head I'm a centrist.

3a. But the kind of ignorant, arrogant, contemptuous looking down their noses at ordinary people **** I see from some of the fanatical people here is the same **** I see from their counterparts in the US, and it's what's driving more moderate people to hold their noses and vote Republican.

3b. The Republicans are vermin but at least they don't hate me, my community, and my family and friends. And they might be racists but they're not racist TOWARDS me and my community and family and friends the way so many of the so-called 'liberals' are. They won't hire or promote a black or brown man or woman above me just because of their skin color or womb.
1. You seem to be defending what is happening as normal, part of a historical tradition and so on.

2. You calling yourself a centrist doesn't make it so.  And anyway that term has no meaning across CDN-USA contexts.  This doesn't seem like a centrist position:

"And yet if it came to voting for that group or you lot I think I'd probably be strongly, strongly tempted to vote Trump's ticket. Because you're mostly a bunch of arrogant, hateful scum too, but your hate and contempt is directed more towards anyone who isn't a far-left university-educated urban **** like you."

3. I don't think I look down my nose at YOU, per se.  Your argument style isn't great but you saved it from the fire by at least conceding a point so I admire you for that. 

Now - voting for a party because of an archetype about the type of people who vote for the OTHER party is a weird kind of identity self-own that I absolutely can't relate to.  It seems to me that's what you are doing.  I'm not looking down my nose here, just reading what you wrote and commenting on it.

In my context; Liberals tend to win in my city but there are lots of conservatives, including the mayor.  I have close friends in the city who are conservative and libertarian and they have valid points of view and generally the same values.

So, no, I don't HATE people that I don't know - that's just delusional IMO.  I'm not saying you personally do but it seems to me that you think Democrats hate you, and that 'hate' something like that is happening on the largest scale in the USA.

Is allowing people to carry weapons and patrol [whatever you want to call BLM events] good for that situation ?  If you are the NRA then I guess so but otherwise... it seems ultimately ruinous.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 20, 2021, 10:08:45 pm
1. You seem to be defending what is happening as normal, part of a historical tradition and so on.

I explained it was so. That's not the same thing as thinking it should be so.


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"And yet if it came to voting for that group or you lot I think I'd probably be strongly, strongly tempted to vote Trump's ticket. Because you're mostly a bunch of arrogant, hateful scum too, but your hate and contempt is directed more towards anyone who isn't a far-left university-educated urban **** like you."

3. I don't think I look down my nose at YOU, per se.  Your argument style isn't great but you saved it from the fire by at least conceding a point so I admire you for that. 

Give me a break. Your posts reek of arrogance, even if you don't use the language of assholes like blackbdog.  You're still definitely on his team.

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Now - voting for a party because of an archetype about the type of people who vote for the OTHER party is a weird kind of identity self-own that I absolutely can't relate to.  It seems to me that's what you are doing.  I'm not looking down my nose here, just reading what you wrote and commenting on it.

Everything is an archetype. It's just that your side doesn't care about the ones on the Left and dismiss them while you believe everything about those on the right. The Left is your team and you accept they are always well-meaning, so their 'protests' are not riots no matter how many people they assault or how many buildings they burn and loot. Their hearts are in the right place, right? They're in favor of 'social justice' just like you. And those evil people on the Right are not.

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So, no, I don't HATE people that I don't know - that's just delusional IMO.  I'm not saying you personally do but it seems to me that you think Democrats hate you, and that 'hate' something like that is happening on the largest scale in the USA.

There is a huge contempt from liberal urban university graduates, especially those indoctrinated in social justice towards blue-collar workers, towards conservatives, towards rural people, towards the military, towards religious people (but only if they're Christian), and towards anyone who doesn't speak the same bullshit indecipherable linguistic babble as they do and have the same fashionable views on the alphabet soup people, law and order, border security and racial injustice. Even that doddering fool Biden can't seem to make any announcements that don't single out some identity group or other for special praise. And he's the moderate standard-bearer. Why did he pick that incompetent idiot for a vice president? Because he insisted on a woman and on a woman of color and he didn't have much to choose from. She was unpopular in the primaries and is unpopular now. Whatever happened to picking people on merit and not color?

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Is allowing people to carry weapons and patrol [whatever you want to call BLM events] good for that situation ?  If you are the NRA then I guess so but otherwise... it seems ultimately ruinous.

There's only one reason **** like this happens and it's a lack of policing. You have proper policing with a decent response time, you have local prosecutors zealously putting violent people in prison and a strong parole system that doesn't act like a revolving door, you have police clamping down on street protests the moment they show signs of violence, and you won't see things like this happening. When you have police ordered to retreat and let their police station be burned, ordered to not arrest demonstrators, huge blocks of stores looted and burned and local Democratic prosecutors refusing to press charges against criminals then you get stuff like this. It shouldn't happen but it will happen. But only in cities run by the Democrats. You think you'd have two straight years of daily riots in Portland if it was run by Republicans? Not likely, bud.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 20, 2021, 10:26:27 pm
1. I explained it was so. That's not the same thing as thinking it should be so.

2. Give me a break. Your posts reek of arrogance, even if you don't use the language of assholes like blackbdog.  You're still definitely on his team.

3. Everything is an archetype.

4. It's just that your side doesn't care about the ones on the Left and dismiss them while you believe everything about those on the right. The Left is your team and you accept they are always well-meaning, so their 'protests' are not riots no matter how many people they assault or how many buildings they burn and loot. Their hearts are in the right place, right? They're in favor of 'social justice' just like you. And those evil people on the Right are not.

5. There is a huge contempt from liberal urban university graduates, especially those indoctrinated in social justice towards blue-collar workers, towards conservatives, towards rural people, towards the military, towards religious people (but only if they're Christian), and towards anyone who doesn't speak the same bullshit indecipherable linguistic babble as they do and have the same fashionable views on the alphabet soup people, law and order, border security and racial injustice. Even that doddering fool Biden can't seem to make any announcements that don't single out some identity group or other for special praise. And he's the moderate standard-bearer. Why did he pick that incompetent idiot for a vice president? Because he insisted on a woman and on a woman of color and he didn't have much to choose from. She was unpopular in the primaries and is unpopular now. Whatever happened to picking people on merit and not color?

6. There's only one reason **** like this happens and it's a lack of policing. You have proper policing with a decent response time, you have local prosecutors zealously putting violent people in prison and a strong parole system that doesn't act like a revolving door, you have police clamping down on street protests the moment they show signs of violence, and you won't see things like this happening. When you have police ordered to retreat and let their police station be burned, ordered to not arrest demonstrators, huge blocks of stores looted and burned and local Democratic prosecutors refusing to press charges against criminals then you get stuff like this. It shouldn't happen but it will happen. But only in cities run by the Democrats. You think you'd have two straight years of daily riots in Portland if it was run by Republicans? Not likely, bud.

1. So you're against vigilantism ?  Open carry laws ?  Be clear on this because I can't seem to understand where you stand on this.  I don't deny the legality of what happened, but I am saying that the new firearm laws, and culture are leading down a dangerous path.

2. You see politics as team sports and want to 'win' arguments.  That's why you are sizing up my arrogance etc.  I don't have any opinion on your character, just trying to understand your arguments.

3. What does that mean ?  Are you an archetype ?  I am not one.

4. You're making up opinions on me without knowing me especially adding me to some fictitious 'team'.  Even if you knew me, it's known as ad hominem.  And I already said that I have and respect my conservative friends. 

5. This is all archetypes and identity politics.  It only serves as a shortcut for people who would rather argue personalities than facts IMO.

6. The US already has a strong law-and-order mentality and a high percentage of incarceration.   Both sides seem to be against the government, in some form, and each other generally.  There are stand-offs against the Bureau of Land Management, State Governments, local police and so on.

So, I defer to my past comments about arming the culture war and how destructive it is.  Your solution seems to be a hard clampdown.  Trump was in office for 4 years and he was pretty hard line.  I just don't see how that would alleviate things.

The US is the wealthiest nation in history, on the whole, and nobody seems to want to broker peace in this culture war.  You want to clampdown on BLM gatherings/BLM riots.  I think that kid tried the clampdown route, in his own way. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 21, 2021, 10:26:05 am
1. So you're against vigilantism ?  Open carry laws ?  Be clear on this because I can't seem to understand where you stand on this.  I don't deny the legality of what happened, but I am saying that the new firearm laws, and culture are leading down a dangerous path.

I think open carry laws are **** dumb. Nor do I approve of giving every moron who wants the right to carry concealed. I believe in reasonable gun control laws.

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2. You see politics as team sports and want to 'win' arguments.  That's why you are sizing up my arrogance etc.  I don't have any opinion on your character, just trying to understand your arguments.

It's not politics, it's culture. And it's a team sport because the Left made it so. It separated everyone according to their identity and grievance rating and then set them into a hierarchy of importance, with the white oppressors all being the enemy. You are now amazed that the white oppressors have decided that they're tired of constantly being **** on and are starting to resent it?

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6. The US already has a strong law-and-order mentality and a high percentage of incarceration.   Both sides seem to be against the government, in some form, and each other generally.  There are stand-offs against the Bureau of Land Management, State Governments, local police and so on.

Both sides are against law and order too, just in different ways. The Left feels sympathy towards criminals and sees them as all being victims of society, wants to pat them on the head and send them right back to looting, burning and assaulting people. The right want them all incarcerated for life but refuse to pay for it, and the courts are a mess. Then you have local prosecutors who are highly politicized, and the ones in democratic counties increasingly owe their jobs to far left racial activist groups and organizations and are increasingly refusing to prosecute for many non-violent crimes and even some which are violent. The streets are jammed with homeless people in many Democratic cities, most of them crazy or drugged out or both, and often violent. BLM demonstrations became lootfests and arsonfests throughout most Democratic cities and the police were powerless to act, hamstrung by cowardly Democratic politicians afraid of losing support from Black community groups.

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Your solution seems to be a hard clampdown.  Trump was in office for 4 years and he was pretty hard line.

Trump was an **** who only made mouth noises while filling his face with fried chicken and spending his time on Twitter and FOX. He didn't do ****. And anyway, most enforcement of crime is at the city, county and state level. The states write the laws and the cities and counties enforce them. And almost all the major cities are controlled by the Democrats because of heavy black support. They won't do a damn thing that looks like it might be against BLM or any protest for 'social/racial justice'.

As far as I'm concerned when a protest descends into mob violence, do what Lindsey Graham reportedly advocated towards the January 6 rioters on Capitol Hill - open fire on them. And yeah, Graham is a spineless, lying, hypocritical weasel, but he was right there.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 21, 2021, 11:01:41 pm
What does race have to do with a white kid picking up a gun and going to a protest over the police shooting of a black man, hmm that's a head-scratcher.

Again, what does that have to do with this trail?  Jacob Blake wasn't part of the trial.  It was a trial of a white guy who attacked another white guy so the 2nd white guy shot the attacker, then ran towards the cops and was again attacked by some other white guys so he shot them too.

So is a mostly-white jury supposed to feel racial bias in favour of the white people who are dead/injured(prosecution) the white person who shot them (defendant)?  Jacob Blake wasn't on trial nor were any black people/POC as far as I know.  Making this out to be some issue where the jury favoured Rittenhouse because he was white is just nonsense and not backed any evidence whatsoever.  They deliberated for 4 days, the jury clearly thought this one out very carefully, especially considering its high profile nature.

Rittenhouse wasn't allowed at open-carry an assault rifle at his age, so he should be punished for breaking that law and for breaking curfew.

If you have evidence that the jury was biased towards Rittenhouse please post it.

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Yeah and like I said, the precedent here is anyone can now insert themselves into a dangerous situation and when things escalate, kill people and claim self -defense. Of course that won't be applied equally.

If the case went the other way the precedent would be that people can physically attack you and you can't defend yourself from it.  Either way, in a violent physical encounter somebody is going to get hurt, and i would prefer the person who is the aggressor to get hurt more than the person defending themselves.

I think the main issue to all of this is that people should follow the law.  If everyone followed the law, Jacob Blake would be alive and nobody would have been attacked or shot.  IF everyone followed the law Rittenhouse/Rosenbaum etc would have not been out after curfew, Rosenbaum wouldn't have physically attacked Rittenhouse, and Rittenhouse would not have been carrying a firearm he wasn't legally allowed to carry due to being underage.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 21, 2021, 11:05:54 pm

Bullshit. If OJ Simpson taught us anything it's that money talks, not race in US courtrooms. Rittenhouse had a good lawyer.

The prosecution on this case sucked and they also sucked on the OJ trial.  OJ had the best criminal lawyers in the country on his case.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 21, 2021, 11:18:46 pm
"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

That's not true.  He wasn't "hunting", he was protecting (in his mind).  He went there to protect private property from rioters and so were many others just like him that night.  I do believe he and others were offended by the riots and lack of "law and order".  Doing that wasn't exactly a very smart thing to do, especially carrying around an AR-15 while underage. Someone didn't like what he was doing and attacked him, so he defended himself.  Unfortunately the police weren't doing much to stop the riots either, i assume thanks to the city's orders to stand down.  Since the Floyd murder it was really a cascading series of events that unfolded.  I just really don't think his intentions were to specifically find people to kill, but he was prepared to defend himself with violence and that's not a good situation to put yourself in.  You could maybe say the rioters and the "protectors" like Rittenhouse were prepared for a fight, and that's a really stupid situation to put yourself in on all sides.

If anyone was hunting, it was Rosenbaum.  Rosenbaum was a mentally ill  peda-phile ex-con who was suicidal, it seemed like he wanted to die that night and he made it happen.  Rosenbaum was also molested as a child, and was homeless at the time of the shooting.  So he had a horrible life and probably died by de-facto suicide.  What a very sad story.  He was a peda-phile but I also feel for him because he was himself molested, maybe learned behaviour?  What a sad story.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 21, 2021, 11:34:46 pm
What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

I don't think it's being reframed, I think this is the way American law has always been.  The trial wasn't about vigilante justice, because the trail was about 2 murders and not about the legality of Rittenhouse being there to protect private property with firearms.  It's ALWAYS been legal to protect private property with firearms, and to protect your person with firearms, because of the 2nd amendment.

That's not to say I agree with it, or the 2nd amendment, that's just American law and an American culture that has embraced it.  And therefore, lots of gun ownership and lots of gun violence in that country.  I think Canadians, including myself, don't really fully understand the American mindset because it's simply so foreign to our mindset.  The culture is just so different.  I have an American friend who lives in Texas, and he lives in a different reality than I do and I understand that just by talking to him.  He hasn't even been vaxxed yet.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 22, 2021, 12:08:55 am
I think the main issue to all of this is that people should follow the law. 
They are but since the law is retarded it kinda follows the situations it produces will be too.

America is struggling with effects here not causes.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 02:01:31 am
They are but since the law is retarded it kinda follows the situations it produces will be too.

America is struggling with effects here not causes.

If cops followed the law and their own policies they would not abuse members of the public, including black people.  If George Floyd followed the law the cops wouldn't have been called nor would he have be put in a police car.

If everyone in Kenosha followed the law they'd all be at home following curfew and not running around on the streets in dangerous situations.

Good people who have good sense typically don't get shot, arrested, put on trial for murder, pulled over by police/arrested, or put on trial for committing police brutality against a member of the public.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 07:43:00 am
I don't think it's being reframed, I think this is the way American law has always been.   

It is.  "STAND YOUR GROUND" "OPEN CARRY" and the changing of laws to reflect a view of public order that is derived from vengeance movies is new.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 11:41:25 am
You want to know why people want guns in America? Because vermin like this are allowed to roam the streets year after year when they should just be executed or put in cages for the remainder of their unnatural lives. There are so many like him, violent, irredeemable, dozens of violent offenses over many years. This guy was arrested and skipped bail and was released AGAIN on bail for a lousy thousand dollars. Now five people and counting are dead. One of you so precious, caring, concerned liberal types please explain why people like this are on the streets? Because say what you will about conservatives, but this guy would not be out on the street in a conservative world.

He has a long rap sheet and a number of pending cases. Brooks’ most recent court appearance came on Nov. 5 for charges including reckless endangerment, battery, domestic abuse, resisting arrest and bail jumping. He was out on $1,000 bail for those charges at the time of the attack. In July 2020, police charged him with three other felonies – including reckless endangerment and being a felon in possession of a firearm. He’s also listed as a Tier 2 registered sex offender in Nevada.

A background check from Wisconsin's Department of Justice came back with over 50 pages of charges against Brooks stretching back decades. In 1999 he received his first felony conviction for taking part in an aggravated battery – for which he received three years of probation, records show. He was convicted of obstructing an officer in 2005 and 2003. In 2002 he had another felony marijuana charge. In 2010 he pleaded no contest to felony strangulation charges after allegedly attacking a woman during an argument about phone calls.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/waukesha-christmas-parade-darrell-brooks
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 11:59:08 am
 
It's not politics, it's culture. And it's a team sport because the Left made it so. It separated everyone according to their identity and grievance rating and then set them into a hierarchy of importance, with the white oppressors all being the enemy. You are now amazed that the white oppressors have decided that they're tired of constantly being **** on and are starting to resent it?

Well, for one thing I think this happened gradually over a few decades.  Secondly, do you think this is a bad thing or not ?  If the Left did it, then why are you falling into their framework ?

Quote
   
 One of you so precious, caring, concerned liberal types please explain why people like this are on the streets? Because say what you will about conservatives, but this guy would not be out on the street in a conservative world.

Again, you can't seem to be able to argue the facts without tying the people you're talking to to some kind of liberal 'movement'.  I don't ask what team YOU are on, I just want to know what principles you are using and where you are getting your facts to apply them so we can discuss things.

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He has a long rap sheet and a number of pending cases. Brooks’ most recent court appearance came on Nov. 5 for charges including reckless endangerment, battery, domestic abuse, resisting arrest and bail jumping. He was out on $1,000 bail for those charges at the time of the attack. In July 2020, police charged him with three other felonies – including reckless endangerment and being a felon in possession of a firearm. He’s also listed as a Tier 2 registered sex offender in Nevada.

A background check from Wisconsin's Department of Justice came back with over 50 pages of charges against Brooks stretching back decades. In 1999 he received his first felony conviction for taking part in an aggravated battery – for which he received three years of probation, records show. He was convicted of obstructing an officer in 2005 and 2003. In 2002 he had another felony marijuana charge. In 2010 he pleaded no contest to felony strangulation charges after allegedly attacking a woman during an argument about phone calls.


Ok - well the system (the American system) jails a ton of people and still seems to get it wrong.  They definitely have a "law and order" approach.  And crime rates have generally declined. 

Would you say that maybe you're a perfectionist in this regard ? Do you think that the pervasiveness of crime coverage, availability of phone footage of violence may be creating a perception that things are worse than they actually are ?

Let's just have a discussion without you jumping up and attaching me to "the left" - can we do that ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 12:17:08 pm

Well, for one thing I think this happened gradually over a few decades.  Secondly, do you think this is a bad thing or not ?  If the Left did it, then why are you falling into their framework ?

Self-defense. If everyone else is forming groups and attacking anyone who looks like me then maybe I ought to respond.

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Would you say that maybe you're a perfectionist in this regard ? Do you think that the pervasiveness of crime coverage, availability of phone footage of violence may be creating a perception that things are worse than they actually are ?

Somewhat. But I don't think a system needs to be perfect to keep people like this out of society. It just needs to be reasonably effective. And it's not. It's just wildly expensive. And yes, obviously the pervasiveness of crime reports impacts how people feel, just like the pervasiveness of any kind of police-black violence where the cops are in the wrong drives the narrative about how poor black people are being oppressed by the evil police.
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Let's just have a discussion without you jumping up and attaching me to "the left" - can we do that ?

You appear to be strongly devoted to all the usual SJW beliefs of the left, from trans and gay to climate, diversity and open borders. If I seem to be putting you into a team box it's because it appears to be a comfortable place for you. If you're not happy being seen as being on the same side as hateful assholes like blackduck and squidhead that's understandable as they don't appear to like human beings very much.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 01:02:32 pm
Because he got knocked down.

Not by the first guy he killed. He was running away, then stopped and turned around.

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Ah, so you know exactly what neo-Nazis think and you know they're right?

I mean, it's what they're saying.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 01:09:05 pm
I love how you say that so indignantly. Yes, they do. But all they do is go somewhere to pray and that brings out raging, screaming, violent far-left activists. You can blame Patriot Prayer all you want but they're not making these assholes lose their minds and go and attack them. No, no, that's on the crazy people.

They were driving around pepper spraying people, you idiot.

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And Reinohel was ALSO armed, which somehow is just fine with you. So it's okay to go armed to a 'demonstration' and to seek a confrontation with a guy and then shoot them because you feel threatened. As long as your politics align with the same far left bullshit as the batshit crazy black dog.

You're so stupid it's incredible that you can even manage to turn on a computer. I didn't say jack **** about whether Reinohel was right or wrong; that's just you projecting. I was pointing out the disparity in how the two incidents were handled; the pro-cop, right wing guy got kid glove treatment and a sham trial, the left wing guy got gunned down in the street by the cops.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 01:11:11 pm
You mean BLM riots, arsons and lootings, right? No, you can't even bring yourself to think it, much less say it.

Well, online is new. That's the only new part. Vigilantism has a very long and well-respected history in the US. They're not like **** Canada where a guy who defends his property gets arrested because cringing city people in their high towers make all the rules and can't imagine why anyone would ever need to defend themselves.

Yeah for sure man.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/19cb8a84dc8716884bd8bcd438f95ff18b5cff68/0_391_2953_2605/master/2953.jpg?width=480&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=6124cdfcbcba446969f163ea9e15526b)



Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 01:17:13 pm
Get it through your head I'm a centrist. But the kind of ignorant, arrogant, contemptuous looking down their noses at ordinary people **** I see from some of the fanatical people here is the same **** I see from their counterparts in the US, and it's what's driving more moderate people to hold their noses and vote Republican. The Republicans are vermin but at least they don't hate me, my community, and my family and friends. And they might be racists but they're not racist TOWARDS me and my community and family and friends the way so many of the so-called 'liberals' are.They won't hire or promote a black or brown man or woman above me just because of their skin color or womb.

If you prefer fascists over the left, then you aren't a centrist, you're another fascist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 01:21:09 pm
It's not politics, it's culture. And it's a team sport because the Left made it so. It separated everyone according to their identity and grievance rating and then set them into a hierarchy of importance, with the white oppressors all being the enemy. You are now amazed that the white oppressors have decided that they're tired of constantly being **** on and are starting to resent it?

What a brutal, stupid, ahistorical take. Race hierarchies weren't created by the left, the left merely identified them which upsets delicate flowers like you.

Also deciding to take the side of the violent anti-democratic fascists on the right is a choice, I wish you clods would acknowledge that and take some personal responsibility instead of crying about how the left made you do it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 01:49:20 pm
1. Self-defense. If everyone else is forming groups and attacking anyone who looks like me then maybe I ought to respond.

2. You appear to be strongly devoted to all the usual SJW beliefs of the left, from trans and gay to climate, diversity and open borders.

3. If I seem to be putting you into a team box it's because it appears to be a comfortable place for you. If you're not happy being seen as being on the same side as hateful assholes like blackduck and squidhead that's understandable as they don't appear to like human beings very much.
1. Ok, so you are selecting it because you think it's a good idea.  I'm saying it's bad form, and a kind of ad hominem.
2. Haha.  I'm actually pretty conservative.  Some might say 'a centrist'.  If you're allowed to advocate for clampdowns and call yourself centrist, don't you think it's reasonable for me to advocate for policies advocated by the Conservative Party and call myself 'centrist' ?  The Conservative party has a policy to deal with climate change, and supports rights for trans a gay people.
3. Again, you seem to think politics is about insulting people.  That's pretty boring because it goes nowhere... it's just whack-a-mole via posts.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 22, 2021, 02:37:39 pm
...this guy would not be out on the street in a conservative world.
 
I thought Wisconsin was a bastion of the conservative world. Its attitudes towards guns certainly seem to suggest it is.

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A background check from Wisconsin's Department of Justice came back with over 50 pages of charges against Brooks stretching back decades.

Of course it also stands to reason that one of America's socialist left wing radical Marxist Deepstate tentacles must have penetrated Wisconsin's state government. Like conservatives everywhere Wisconsonians are as seemingly powerless against it.

Why can't the conservative world do more to combat this evil in its midst?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 03:23:53 pm
Do you think that the pervasiveness of crime coverage, availability of phone footage of violence may be creating a perception that things are worse than they actually are ?

This has to be the case.  Since the advent of mass body cam usage by cops and the smartphone over the last decade we seem to know more about what things that have always occurred.  I'm sure police brutality is lower now than ever, though still not close to ideal.  It never will be with humans involved but it can get A LOT better with more accountability for it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 03:29:46 pm
Not by the first guy he killed. He was running away, then stopped and turned around.

He was chased by Rosenbaum through the streets and parking lot.  I assume he turned around because Rosenbaum was throwing stuff at him, gunfire was going off around him, and Rosenbaum was charging him.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 03:42:33 pm
What a brutal, stupid, ahistorical take. Race hierarchies weren't created by the left, the left merely identified them which upsets delicate flowers like you.

The entire concept of race is stupid.  Yes I assume it was created by the right, or at least by racists.  We need to destroy the concept of race by treating everyone the same regardless of what they look like.  To do this we should judge individuals by their actions, character, and merit instead of their skin colour.  When I go to work I don't treat some people better or worse based on their race or gender.  This is the way we were moving since the 60's but I think those doubling-down now on identity politics think changing everyone's minds over decades is too slow, they want the changes to happen right now, which just isn't possible.  Sometimes unfortunately the only way to cure a racist is to wait until they get old and die.

I don't think "white people" are the problem, which is what the woke say these days.  The problem is individuals who are racist.  Blaming the individual or policy or organization is a lot healthier than blaming an entire race, because this leads to racism towards white people, and many white people are naturally going to get their back up to these racial overgeneralizations and scapegoating and fight back in kind.  Most white people can get behind the idea of condemning individual white people who are racist, we had been doing that as a society since the 60's.  But when you say "white people are racist" instead of "this individual white person is racist for doing X" even a lot of the good white people get their feathers ruffled with that one, except those dripping in racial guilt for things that are the fault of others.

All racial overgeneralizations are unproductive if not socially destructive.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 07:01:06 pm
They were driving around pepper spraying people, you idiot.

What? Every single time? Not that I've seen on youtube. All they seem to need to do is show up to have screeching mobs of ANTIFA and anarchist types like you descend on them. Frankly, I'd love to give all of them - and you - guns and then get the popcorn as you all kill each other.

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You're so stupid it's incredible that you can even manage to turn on a computer. I didn't say jack **** about whether Reinohel was right or wrong; that's just you projecting. I was pointing out the disparity in how the two incidents were handled; the pro-cop, right wing guy got kid glove treatment and a sham trial, the left wing guy got gunned down in the street by the cops.

I don't care what happened to your hero, or the other heroes of the ANTIFA the kid shot. Is that why you're so raging? Because he killed your best? The **** and the wife beater? I guess they represented the top minds of your movement. Certainly they had to have been smarter than you.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 07:04:39 pm
If you prefer fascists over the left, then you aren't a centrist, you're another fascist.

They're not fascists, you asswad. Trump has no ideology but money, and most of those around him are grifters and crooks. And I have no doubt whatsoever that you and your ilk have even less commitment to democracy and freedom than they do. There's never been a government of any kind led by people like you that didn't descend into terror and repression. That's because the brutal ideology of thoughtless contempt for anyone who thinks differently than you do justifies, in your smooth little brain, any amount of 're-education' to keep the 'bad thoughts' from spreading.

That you pretend to be one bit better than the fascists is a sick joke.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 07:09:15 pm
What a brutal, stupid, ahistorical take. Race hierarchies weren't created by the left, the left merely identified them which upsets delicate flowers like you.

Also deciding to take the side of the violent anti-democratic fascists on the right is a choice, I wish you clods would acknowledge that and take some personal responsibility instead of crying about how the left made you do it.

Don't pretend you have any commitment to human rights or democracy, you lying ****. We both know your kind is just as into the 'camps' as a solution to improper thinking as the fascists. Sure the Fascists did it, but let's not forget how your friends in China, Cambodia and Russia did the same. You all dream of a utopia where human behavior won't get in the way of your perfect vision, but not understanding humans and having no empathy you're willing to coldly destroy anyone who stands in your way. The far Left has butchered more people than the far-Right and are still at it. What's the worst Trump could do compared to what your fellow travelers in Venezuela and Nicaragua have done?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 07:14:08 pm
1. Ok, so you are selecting it because you think it's a good idea.  I'm saying it's bad form, and a kind of ad hominem.

If it's somehow 'ad hominum' for me to choose a side then what about all the Black or gay or trans groups? Why are they allowed to choose a side and attack me?

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2. Haha.  I'm actually pretty conservative.  Some might say 'a centrist'.  If you're allowed to advocate for clampdowns and call yourself centrist, don't you think it's reasonable for me to advocate for policies advocated by the Conservative Party and call myself 'centrist' ?  The Conservative party has a policy to deal with climate change, and supports rights for trans a gay people.

The Conservative party in Canada is not conservative in any way, which is why it's falling apart. And how is it you think my wanting a 'clampdown' on violent crime is somehow not centrist? The policies on dealing with climate change are a farce and will accomplish nothing while wasting vast resources. And any party can support 'rights' but the trans activists are out of their minds and so are most of their supporters. It's one thing to demand they be treated legally, ie not beaten, not fired or evicted, etc., not expelled from restaurants or whatever, and another to demand they be inserted into women's sports, prisons and change rooms. Much less demand gay women and straight guys have sex with them because they're 'women' or else be called bigots. What a joke!

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3. Again, you seem to think politics is about insulting people.  That's pretty boring because it goes nowhere... it's just whack-a-mole via posts.

Of course, no one ever insults anyone here. LOL.  Odd how you only complain about it when I do it, Mr. Conservative.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 22, 2021, 07:22:15 pm
I thought Wisconsin was a bastion of the conservative world. Its attitudes towards guns certainly seem to suggest it is.

Wisconsin has a Democratic governor and lieutenant governor, a Democratic attorney general and a secretary of state. One senator is a D and the other an R. It's a split state, not totally conservative. More importantly, Milwaukee is ruled by Democrats, both mayor and council. Milwaukee county's district attorney is also a Democrat. And it would be this office which decided things like bail and how hard to press charges against people like this - or whether to just let them walk.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 07:52:22 pm
Wisconsin has a Democratic governor and lieutenant governor, a Democratic attorney general and a secretary of state. 

Are you sure none of these crimes were incurred under Republican jurisdictions?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 07:53:53 pm
The entire concept of race is stupid.  Yes I assume it was created by the right, or at least by racists.  We need to destroy the concept of race by treating everyone the same regardless of what they look like.

That's a nice fantasy but pretending race isn't a thing or that we're not living in a world where socially constructed racial differences resulted in different treatment of different groups isn't going to do anything but preserve the entrenched racial inequities in our society.

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Sometimes unfortunately the only way to cure a racist is to wait until they get old and die.

Racist people are vanishingly rare, thank goodness. Racist hierarchies and institutions are not.

Quote
I don't think "white people" are the problem, which is what the woke say these days.  The problem is individuals who are racist. 


No, that's not it at all.

Quote
Blaming the individual or policy or organization is a lot healthier than blaming an entire race, because this leads to racism towards white people, and many white people are naturally going to get their back up to these racial overgeneralizations and scapegoating and fight back in kind.  Most white people can get behind the idea of condemning individual white people who are racist, we had been doing that as a society since the 60's.  But when you say "white people are racist" instead of "this individual white person is racist for doing X" even a lot of the good white people get their feathers ruffled with that one, except those dripping in racial guilt for things that are the fault of others.

White people will get their back up whenever you point out that they continue to be the beneficiaries of structural racism. They take that **** real personally for some reason.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 07:58:48 pm
What? Every single time? Not that I've seen on youtube. All they seem to need to do is show up to have screeching mobs of ANTIFA and anarchist types like you descend on them. Frankly, I'd love to give all of them - and you - guns and then get the popcorn as you all kill each other.

I don't care what happened to your hero, or the other heroes of the ANTIFA the kid shot. Is that why you're so raging? Because he killed your best? The **** and the wife beater? I guess they represented the top minds of your movement. Certainly they had to have been smarter than you.

lick those boots harder why don't you.

Quote
Don't pretend you have any commitment to human rights or democracy, you lying ****. We both know your kind is just as into the 'camps' as a solution to improper thinking as the fascists. Sure the Fascists did it, but let's not forget how your friends in China, Cambodia and Russia did the same. You all dream of a utopia where human behavior won't get in the way of your perfect vision, but not understanding humans and having no empathy you're willing to coldly destroy anyone who stands in your way. The far Left has butchered more people than the far-Right and are still at it. What's the worst Trump could do compared to what your fellow travelers in Venezuela and Nicaragua have done?

Hope you don't chafe your dick too much jerking it to this fantasy you've constructed in your pea brain. Is it that your life is so shitty that feeling like a victim is the only way you can make sense of your mediocrity?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 08:19:16 pm
1. If it's somehow 'ad hominum' for me to choose a side then what about all the Black or gay or trans groups? Why are they allowed to choose a side and attack me?

2. The Conservative party in Canada is not conservative in any way, which is why it's falling apart.

3. And how is it you think my wanting a 'clampdown' on violent crime is somehow not centrist?

4. The policies on dealing with climate change are a farce and will accomplish nothing while wasting vast resources. And any party can support 'rights' but the trans activists are out of their minds and so are most of their supporters. It's one thing to demand they be treated legally, ie not beaten, not fired or evicted, etc., not expelled from restaurants or whatever, and another to demand they be inserted into women's sports, prisons and change rooms. Much less demand gay women and straight guys have sex with them because they're 'women' or else be called bigots. What a joke!

5. Of course, no one ever insults anyone here. LOL.  Odd how you only complain about it when I do it, Mr. Conservative.
1. It's not that you're choosing a side, it's that you're putting other people on a side and stating that because their side is "X" their viewpoint is invalid.  Yes, people are "allowed" to do this but it's poor debating form.

2. Ok, but you're "centrist" which means you're between the Conservatives and Liberals, right ?  Right ?

3.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrism   A move to rebalance the social order around security and policing isn't even the far right Peoples' Party pushed for - https://www.peoplespartyofcanada.ca/platform

4. Yeah, you're right of conservative from your angry rhetoric.

5. I won't come and save you like a weeping damsel if Black Dog insults you.  But if you try it with me I will point it out and watch you stutter and justify it by bringing in imaginary platoons of blacks and gays who would insult you somehow.  Anyway, given your responses, I can come to two conclusions:

1) You understand now what ad hominem is
2) You aren't centrist at all

I also get that you are a "law and order" guy.  It's fine with me, especially if you're American. 

There was a BIG law and order push here in the 1990s, and premier Mike Harris set up work camps for young offenders.  It was a big bust and nobody talked about it again, and the law and order types weren't heard from for awhile.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 08:31:58 pm
That's a nice fantasy but pretending race isn't a thing or that we're not living in a world where socially constructed racial differences resulted in different treatment of different groups isn't going to do anything but preserve the entrenched racial inequities in our society.

We can't pretend racism doesn't exist.  But doubling down on race and racism by treating people differently based on their race is a flawed approach that increases racial resentment.  Should someone who gets a 1000 on their SATs be treated differently whether they're Asian vs black vs white? To say yes is nothing but racism.

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White people will get their back up whenever you point out that they continue to be the beneficiaries of structural racism. They take that **** real personally for some reason.

Some if not many white people do yes.  But there's much more to it than that.  We shouldn't be demonizing entire races of people.  This is racism, and many woke people do it all the time these days.  Every time they do it makes Trumps's re-election more likely
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 08:51:54 pm
2. Haha.  I'm actually pretty conservative.  Some might say 'a centrist'.  If you're allowed to advocate for clampdowns and call yourself centrist, don't you think it's reasonable for me to advocate for policies advocated by the Conservative Party and call myself 'centrist' ?  The Conservative party has a policy to deal with climate change, and supports rights for trans a gay people.

Socially you're not a centrist.  You're as maintstream progressive as they come.  I can't name one position where you go against the mainstream progressive view.  When I challenge such views you often challenge me on it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 09:00:42 pm
Socially you're not a centrist.  You're as maintstream progressive as they come.  I can't name one position where you go against the mainstream progressive view.  When I challenge such views you often challenge me on it.

Ok fair enough... but "mainstream progressive... isn't extreme right ?  I think I am happy with all current legislation, which has been submitted by Liberal and Conservative governments.  So given the mainstream status of those institutions how extreme can I really be hm ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 22, 2021, 09:23:49 pm
Ok fair enough... but "mainstream progressive... isn't extreme right ?  I think I am happy with all current legislation, which has been submitted by Liberal and Conservative governments.  So given the mainstream status of those institutions how extreme can I really be hm ?

I'd definitely say you're not extreme.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 22, 2021, 10:03:42 pm
I'd definitely say you're not extreme.

Also, I am often reluctant to wade into rights discussions.

You'll find I wade in to criticize arguments and logic, and pleading for defined lines of discussion.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 22, 2021, 10:40:43 pm
We can't pretend racism doesn't exist.  But doubling down on race and racism by treating people differently based on their race is a flawed approach that increases racial resentment.  Should someone who gets a 1000 on their SATs be treated differently whether they're Asian vs black vs white? To say yes is nothing but racism.

So your idea is that if some groups are lagging behind because of past injustices, we shouldn't do anything to give those groups a leg up at this point? Like "sorry your ancestors were slaves, your grandparents lived under Jim Crow and you live in generational poverty as a result, but we have to treat you the same as a rich white kid or they'll be sad."

That being said, I'm all for class-based solutions for elevating people, but the same people who oppose wokeness and affirmative action hate those too.

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Some if not many white people do yes.  But there's much more to it than that.  We shouldn't be demonizing entire races of people.  This is racism, and many woke people do it all the time these days. 

"Many"? How many? I guarantee that the number of woke people who think whites are the devil or whatever weird caricature of woke beliefs you have in mind pales to insignificance to the number of people who think blacks are intrinsically lazy and prone to criminality (and this includes people with actual institutional power and influence, not a few purveyors of doofy EDI trainings or profs from obscure colleges).

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Every time they do it makes Trumps's re-election more likely

Right because white people apparently have no agency and can only respond to being accused of racism by actually becoming racist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 12:03:43 am
So your idea is that if some groups are lagging behind because of past injustices, we shouldn't do anything to give those groups a leg up at this point? Like "sorry your ancestors were slaves, your grandparents lived under Jim Crow and you live in generational poverty as a result, but we have to treat you the same as a rich white kid or they'll be sad."

That being said, I'm all for class-based solutions for elevating people, but the same people who oppose wokeness and affirmative action hate those too.

I don't think we should typically help people based on race, but on need.  If you're poor we should help you, regardless of race.  If you need help with healthcare, social services, tuition, etc. we should help you regardless of race.  If you live in a poor community and your school or certain individual kids in those schools need support and funding let's help them and fund their support, regardless of race.

You could make a special case for aboriginal communities being treated differently since it's a special case and many of them live on reserves and there's a lot of unique legal and historical issues there.  But you could also help them because the individuals in those communities need help more than most Canadians and have some of the lowest socioeconomic outcomes, rather than simply through some sense of colonial guilt.  Personally it doesn't matter to me what culture/race you are, if you're hurting and you need help we should help you because it's the human thing to do, whether you're "white trash" or live on a reserve.

Meanwhile, we need to keep reminding each other that we should all be judged as individuals based on our own actions, merit, character rather than prejudging each other based on the racial group we belong to and stop discriminating against others based on those racial generalizations.  This includes cops, woke university admissions panels, everybody.

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"Many"? How many? I guarantee that the number of woke people who think whites are the devil or whatever weird caricature of woke beliefs you have in mind pales to insignificance to the number of people who think blacks are intrinsically lazy and prone to criminality (and this includes people with actual institutional power and influence, not a few purveyors of doofy EDI trainings or profs from obscure colleges).

Both racial stereotypes are harmful, which is my point.  Both causes resentment, hatred, discrimination, and disunity.  I'm not trying to argue who is worse, I'm not really suse what the point of that would be.  Yeah alt-right racists in the US are almost certainly a bigger problem than racist "woke people", but what does that prove?

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Right because white people apparently have no agency and can only respond to being accused of racism by actually becoming racist.

What i'm saying is if people, especially non-white people, keep attacking "white people" as a group rather than attacking racist white individuals or racist laws/policies/institutions then a lot of white people are just going to dig in their heels.  Moderates will turn socially conservative, the conservatives will go alt-right, and the alt-right will go even more Nazi than before.  I think making racism and racists the enemy rather than "white people" is an idea that reasonable can get behind, rather than pitting racial groups against racial groups, which is a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 23, 2021, 10:19:05 am
I don't think we should typically help people based on race, but on need.  If you're poor we should help you, regardless of race.  If you need help with healthcare, social services, tuition, etc. we should help you regardless of race.  If you live in a poor community and your school or certain individual kids in those schools need support and funding let's help them and fund their support, regardless of race.

Except race is often a useful proxy for need. Not in every individual case, but in general. Just look at the racial wealth gap, education gap, etc etc

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You could make a special case for aboriginal communities being treated differently since it's a special case and many of them live on reserves and there's a lot of unique legal and historical issues there.  But you could also help them because the individuals in those communities need help more than most Canadians and have some of the lowest socioeconomic outcomes, rather than simply through some sense of colonial guilt. Personally it doesn't matter to me what culture/race you are, if you're hurting and you need help we should help you because it's the human thing to do, whether you're "white trash" or live on a reserve.

What's wrong with colonial guilt?

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Meanwhile, we need to keep reminding each other that we should all be judged as individuals based on our own actions, merit, character rather than prejudging each other based on the racial group we belong to and stop discriminating against others based on those racial generalizations.  This includes cops, woke university admissions panels, everybody.

Again, this is a fantasy, a well-meaning one, but a fantasy all the same. What's more it's damaging because it prevents one from addressing problems that actually exist. Pretending race doesn't matter doesn't make it so.

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Both racial stereotypes are harmful, which is my point. 

No, I don't think the anti-white stereotype is harmful since it's not a view that is widely held by anyone who matters or has power to act on it so its real world impacts are non-existent.

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Both causes resentment, hatred, discrimination, and disunity.  I'm not trying to argue who is worse, I'm not really suse what the point of that would be.  Yeah alt-right racists in the US are almost certainly a bigger problem than racist "woke people", but what does that prove?

I'm not talking about alt-right racists, but the way racist attitudes and stereotypes are embedded in society even in people who probably wouldn't otherwise consider themselves to be racist.

As for what it proves, again, it shows that the focus on "woke racism" is intentional misdirection.

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What i'm saying is if people, especially non-white people, keep attacking "white people" as a group rather than attacking racist white individuals or racist laws/policies/institutions then a lot of white people are just going to dig in their heels.  Moderates will turn socially conservative, the conservatives will go alt-right, and the alt-right will go even more Nazi than before.  I think making racism and racists the enemy rather than "white people" is an idea that reasonable can get behind, rather than pitting racial groups against racial groups, which is a recipe for disaster.

Again, almost nobody attacks white people as a group. The problem is white people have a unique tendency to associate criticism of white privilege, white supremacy or racist institutions with themselves. That's not the fault of the people pointing out that there are racist institutions, that's on the overly sensitive white people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 12:24:26 pm
Except race is often a useful proxy for need. Not in every individual case, but in general. Just look at the racial wealth gap, education gap, etc etc
Different groups of people are going to have different economic and education outcomes.  Look at east asians and south asians.  But there's also east asians and south asians with poor education and income outcomes, and there's poor black people and well-off black people.

It's much more effective to target need based on the actual deficit (income, education etc) of the individuals who need it, rather than targeting it based on race.

Maybe there's some kids of a certain race falling behind in a school, and part of the reason identified is racial bias by administrators in suspensions.  I don't think the answer is to treat those kids differently based on race, I think the answer is to do everything to help admins/teachers treat all kids the same regardless of race.  I'm not saying race is never relevant or never matters, because sometimes it does.

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No, I don't think the anti-white stereotype is harmful since it's not a view that is widely held by anyone who matters or has power to act on it so its real world impacts are non-existent.

Any stereotypes that profess that an entire racial group is "bad" or "at fault" for something is harmful because it causes resentment and discrimination.  There's so many examples of this through history.  Races aren't responsible for things, people are.  "White people" today as a group aren't responsible for slavery.  The people who are responsible for slavery are the individuals who supported and instituted slavery.  Let's call them "slavery supporting white people".  If someone resents them I don't blame them, but resenting an entire race of people is just hateful and illogical.  There's a difference between Abe Lincoln and a plantation owner.

Whether an idea is bad or not has nothing to do with how many people believe it or the positions of power they hold.  It's a toxic belief, full stop.

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As for what it proves, again, it shows that the focus on "woke racism" is intentional misdirection.

This is a conspiracy theory.

Also, two ideas can be bad at the same time.  Just because anti-black racism is a much bigger problem than woke racism doesn't mean woke racism isn't a problem, or a bad idea, or that we shouldn't criticize it.  This is not a competition of bad ideas.  All bad ideas should be criticized.

If you want to criticize Ben Shapiro for criticizing wokism more often than anti-black racism that's fine, it just doesn't invalidate his points on wokism.

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Again, almost nobody attacks white people as a group. The problem is white people have a unique tendency to associate criticism of white privilege, white supremacy or racist institutions with themselves. That's not the fault of the people pointing out that there are racist institutions, that's on the overly sensitive white people.

They're both problems.  Again, it's not a competition where one invalidates the other.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 23, 2021, 01:38:17 pm
Any stereotypes that profess that an entire racial group is "bad" or "at fault" for something is harmful because it causes resentment and discrimination. There's so many examples of this through history.  Races aren't responsible for things, people are.  "White people" today as a group aren't responsible for slavery.  The people who are responsible for slavery are the individuals who supported and instituted slavery.  Let's call them "slavery supporting white people".  If someone resents them I don't blame them, but resenting an entire race of people is just hateful and illogical.  There's a difference between Abe Lincoln and a plantation owner.
Whether an idea is bad or not has nothing to do with how many people believe it or the positions of power they hold.  It's a toxic belief, full stop.


But you specifically said "harmful" which is not the same thing as "bad". The belief that white people are evil may be bad, but it's a fringe belief that is far less harmful than the pervasive stereotypes about Blacks or Indigenous people or Asians. So it is absurd to lump them together.

Oh and if you're going to criticize something, at least understand what it is you're criticizing. Wokeness is not about demonizing white people.

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This is a conspiracy theory.

No, it's not. right wing activists have literally admitted the point of the anti-CRT panic is to make wokeness toxic and destroy anti-racism efforts.

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Also, two ideas can be bad at the same time.  Just because anti-black racism is a much bigger problem than woke racism doesn't mean woke racism isn't a problem, or a bad idea, or that we shouldn't criticize it.  This is not a competition of bad ideas.  All bad ideas should be criticized.

No, it shows your priorities are totally out of whack and you lack perspective as to what's important. And you can't tell the difference between something that annoys you and something that is actually dangerous.

The belief that the earth is flat is a bad idea and so is the belief that vaccines are extremely dangerous, but only one of those ideas has capacity to cause extensive real world harm. Same goes for "wokeness" vs herrenvolk nationalism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 03:52:11 pm
Are you sure none of these crimes were incurred under Republican jurisdictions?

Given how lengthy his record is some of them certainly were. But as I pointed out, it’s the local district attorney and police who decide how hard to press these issues. And Milwaukee hasn’t had a Republican mayor in over a hundred years. I don’t know the figure for district attorney but I doubt it’s much different.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 03:55:24 pm
lick those boots harder why don't you.

I don't have a problem with cops, anarchy boy.

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Hope you don't chafe your dick too much jerking it to this fantasy you've constructed in your pea brain. Is it that your life is so shitty that feeling like a victim is the only way you can make sense of your mediocrity?

It's not the losers who want to maintain the present system, you dumb fuk. The losers are the ones who want to tear it all down because they're jealous and angry that others made it and they're fukking losers.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 04:04:28 pm
1. It's not that you're choosing a side, it's that you're putting other people on a side and stating that because their side is "X" their viewpoint is invalid.  Yes, people are "allowed" to do this but it's poor debating form.

I didn't say you were wrong, though you are, just predictably on-side with your team.

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2. Ok, but you're "centrist" which means you're between the Conservatives and Liberals, right ?  Right ?
z

That's not exactly what a centrist is. A centrist doesn't sail predictably down the middle but veers left and right depending on the issue and their own decisions on what is best for society and country. The reason I don't much admire either conservatives or liberals is their social views tend to be quite predictable, which suggests they are embracing whatever is fashionable for their group rather t han applying their own mind.

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4. Yeah, you're right of conservative from your angry rhetoric.
What angry rhetoric? Because I respond with the same contempt people show me? I have plenty of views the far right wouldn't like on issues like gay rights, public health care, social welfare, and training, prison reform, pornography and prostitution, and drugs. I also have plenty of views the far left wouldn't like on things like law and order, national security, immigration and asylum policies, multicult and trans, and protecting our western culture and values.

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2) You aren't centrist at all

LOL. It's ad hominem for me to say you were on the left and not conservative but perfectly fine for you to say I'm on the far right and not centrist! Okay bud!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 04:08:12 pm
I'd definitely say you're not extreme.

I didn't say he was extreme either. Black pimple is extreme, as is squidbrain.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 04:12:49 pm
So your idea is that if some groups are lagging behind because of past injustices, we shouldn't do anything to give those groups a leg up at this point? Like "sorry your ancestors were slaves, your grandparents lived under Jim Crow and you live in generational poverty as a result, but we have to treat you the same as a rich white kid or they'll be sad."

Black people in Canada aren't the victims of historical racism. Almost none of them were even here to experience it, nor were their ancestors. The great majority are immigrants and their kids. In the US, I find it telling that Blacks were improving their economic lot by leaps and bounds through the 1940s and 1950s and it all fell to **** in the 1960s when liberals brought in all kinds of public welfare and government programs to combat racism. I never see the woke mob explaining that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on November 23, 2021, 04:44:50 pm
Black people in Canada aren't the victims of historical racism. Almost none of them were even here to experience it, nor were their ancestors.

They weren’t here to experience what?   The racism?  Which you said never existed? 

Trolls are getting stupider and stupider….
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 04:53:23 pm
They weren’t here to experience what?   The racism?  Which you said never existed? 

Trolls are getting stupider and stupider….

Just keep making shiite up to argue against, little biatch. I never said, suggested, implied or inferred there wasn't racism in Canada or anywhere else.
There were 30k black people in Canada fifty years ago. Now there's 1.2 million. Tell me how 30k grows into 1.2 million in two generations. Please do. They're almost all immigrants or their kids.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 23, 2021, 05:23:13 pm
1. I didn't say you were wrong, though you are, just predictably on-side with your team.

2. That's not exactly what a centrist is. 

3. ... protecting our western culture and values.

4. ... perfectly fine for you to say I'm on the far right and not centrist! 
1. Ok, well BlackDog has called you a fascist so let's go with that for you.  At least we have some evidence of your position.
2. I posted a definition, I think.
3. "Protecting our western culture and values" ... not a centrist thing to say.  It's a fascist thing.
4. No it's not fine, but that's where we are.

What I've determined:

- You're not a centrist
- We're going to have ad hominems
- You speak in generalities

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 06:07:20 pm
3. "Protecting our western culture and values" ... not a centrist thing to say.  It's a fascist thing.

If Japan, India, China, Mexico, or aboriginals wanted to protect their culture and values would you call them fascist?

Why is it only fascist when we say it?

Western values are worth preserving.  Liberalism and democracy, human rights, due process, rule of law...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 06:33:57 pm
But you specifically said "harmful" which is not the same thing as "bad". The belief that white people are evil may be bad, but it's a fringe belief that is far less harmful than the pervasive stereotypes about Blacks or Indigenous people or Asians. So it is absurd to lump them together.

No, it shows your priorities are totally out of whack and you lack perspective as to what's important. And you can't tell the difference between something that annoys you and something that is actually dangerous.

The belief that the earth is flat is a bad idea and so is the belief that vaccines are extremely dangerous, but only one of those ideas has capacity to cause extensive real world harm. Same goes for "wokeness" vs herrenvolk nationalism.

These arguments are just whataboutism.  "Wokeness?...Ya but whatabout white nationalism".  This thread is about wokeness.  Saying white nationalism is worse doesn't negate wokeness from being harmful or being a bad idea, and its both.

Canada and its institutions are not being influenced very much by white nationalist nonsense.  It is being influenced by wokeism, radical leftwing identity politics, whatever you want to call it.  The Prime Minister is woke, the Prime Minister is a radical feminist.  There's about 100 pages out of the 275 pages that make up the federal budget that were dedicated specifically to gender equality issues while only 3 pages were dedicated to veterans issues, and zero pages are dedicated to Neo-Nazism.  I don't have an issue with paying attention to some gender issues but dedicating a third of the federal budget to them is pretty insane.  The PM has a weird fetish about saving women because he wants to be the white knight saviour so the ladies swoon over him.

https://www.budget.gc.ca/2018/docs/plan/budget-2018-en.pdf
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 23, 2021, 06:42:54 pm
If Japan, India, China, Mexico, or aboriginals wanted to protect their culture and values would you call them fascist?

Why is it only fascist when we say it?

You asked me a question then answered it. 🤔

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Western values are worth preserving.  Liberalism and democracy, human rights, due process, rule of law...

Yeah and if people do things like storm legislature and try to overturn elections, we should be alarmed. Language is fascism is to ignore that event, and make it all about white people being under attack by browns.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 06:43:29 pm
They weren’t here to experience what?   The racism?  Which you said never existed? 

Trolls are getting stupider and stupider….

Some racism obviously exists in Canada and has always existed.  On the other hand, South asian Canadians don't make more money than African-Canadians because of racism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 06:45:53 pm
Yeah and if people do things like storm legislature and try to overturn elections, we should be alarmed. Language is fascism is to ignore that event, and make it all about white people being under attack by browns.

Yes we should.  That is actual fascism.  Storming legislatures to overturn democratic elections is very much against Western values.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 07:47:29 pm
1. Ok, well BlackDog has called you a fascist so let's go with that for you.  At least we have some evidence of your position.

So, now you're either showing that you not only don't know what a centrist is you don't know what a fascist is. Or are just sulking. What's the problem here? Nipples said you were a progressive and all your social views lined up perfectly and you accepted that so now you're sulking because I said you on the Left and your views were predictable? That seems confusing

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3. "Protecting our western culture and values" ... not a centrist thing to say.  It's a fascist thing.

So you really don't know what fascism is. Interesting from a guy who seems pretty smug about his intellectual prowess. Most people care about their country's culture and values. That you'd think that was extremist just shows how out of touch you are. Would you say Quebec is a fascist state? They seem awfully intent on protecting their culture and values. I guess you despise Quebecers. Would you like them to separate? Or would you like the federal government to send in the army and stop them from trying to protect their culture and values?

Tell me, is this a fascist statement?
Why is it important to protect Canadian culture?
Culture is the heart of a nation. As countries become more economically integrated, nations need strong domestic cultures and cultural expression to maintain their sovereignty and sense of identity. ...

 That comes from the Canadian government. Granted, in 2015, but still. https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/topics-domaines/ip-pi/canculture.aspx?lang=en

Do you simply think there's nothing in Canada worth protecting? Our culture and values are basically nothing and you don't care about this country? It seems that way. I bet if I said I was from Guyana or Vietnam and wanted to protect my culture and values you'd be applauding wildly.

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What I've determined:

- You're not a centrist
- We're going to have ad hominems
- You speak in generalities

And what I've determined is you're a smug Toronto urbanite who looks down his nose at anyone who isn't from a big city and anyone who doesn't go to university and anyone who thinks differently than you, and you're not nearly as smart as you seem to believe. You also have a tendency to sulk.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 23, 2021, 07:49:09 pm
You asked me a question then answered it. 🤔

Yeah and if people do things like storm legislature and try to overturn elections, we should be alarmed. Language is fascism is to ignore that event, and make it all about white people being under attack by browns.

I don't recall storming any legislatures, and I already said I agreed with Lindsey Graham that the cops should have shot those people. But I know reality doesn't matter to you while you're determinedly attacking someone on another 'team'.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 23, 2021, 08:35:28 pm
I don't recall storming any legislatures,   

You wanted teams, well your team is team Trump.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 23, 2021, 08:59:37 pm
I don't have a problem with cops, anarchy boy.

No you're sucking up to a bunch of losers like the Patriot prayer dumbf*cks which is even sadder.

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It's not the losers who want to maintain the present system, you dumb fuk. The losers are the ones who want to tear it all down because they're jealous and angry that others made it and they're fukking losers.

Oh you mean the Republicans and their fellow travellers like you?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 23, 2021, 09:01:32 pm
Black people in Canada aren't the victims of historical racism. Almost none of them were even here to experience it, nor were their ancestors.

You don't know your own country's history. Sad.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 23, 2021, 09:09:25 pm
These arguments are just whataboutism.  "Wokeness?...Ya but whatabout white nationalism".  This thread is about wokeness.  Saying white nationalism is worse doesn't negate wokeness from being harmful or being a bad idea, and its both.

Nah you don't have to bring up white nationalism to point out the woke panic is overblown nonsense.

But the fact this fake panic is happening against the backdrop of rising white wing authoritarianism makes the obsession so many have with it even more pathetic.

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Canada and its institutions are not being influenced very much by white nationalist nonsense.  It is being influenced by wokeism, radical leftwing identity politics, whatever you want to call it.  The Prime Minister is woke, the Prime Minister is a radical feminist.  There's about 100 pages out of the 275 pages that make up the federal budget that were dedicated specifically to gender equality issues while only 3 pages were dedicated to veterans issues, and zero pages are dedicated to Neo-Nazism.

See, you continue to think that making gestures towards progressive measures on gender, or reconciliation or anti-racism are the same as real action. They aren't.

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I don't have an issue with paying attention to some gender issues but dedicating a third of the federal budget to them is pretty insane.  The PM has a weird fetish about saving women because he wants to be the white knight saviour so the ladies swoon over him.

Aren't women like 50% of the population?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 23, 2021, 10:20:30 pm
Nah you don't have to bring up white nationalism to point out the woke panic is overblown nonsense.

But the fact this fake panic is happening against the backdrop of rising white wing authoritarianism makes the obsession so many have with it even more pathetic.

The left and right have gone absolutely stupid when it comes to identity politics.

The examples from the right are pretty self-evident.  I'll give you can example from the woke left from Ben Shapiro's speech, he gives this example:
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"As an anti-racist, when I see racial disparities, I see racism. But I know for many racist Americans, when they see racial disparities they see black inferiority. So I was not surprised in the least by the number of comments claiming racism is not a major factor in the lives of black males. So many of our neighbors are unfortunately still living in their post-racial fantasy world. Let’s hope this study thrusts some of them into the racist real world." - Ibram X. Kendi
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/upshot/reader-questions-about-race-gender-and-mobility.html

Ibram X. Kendi is a PhD in African American studies and a professor of history and yet has said such a ridiculous statement as "when I see racial disparities, I see racism", which the NYT even used as the title for the article.  The growing trend today is this thinking based on the false assumption that racial disparities automatically mean racism somehow caused these disparities, which isn't necessarily true at all.  Sometimes it can be caused largely by racism, and sometimes it involves various factors, some having little or nothing to do with racism.  For instance, asians have higher education and income levels than whites.  Is that because whites were victimized by racial bias and asians, including many south asians with brown skin, were not?  Is it possible then that education and income levels are informed by variables other than just racism?  Yes obviously.  Same with NBA basketball players:  if white players and hispanic players are disproportionately less represented in the NBA compared to black players, does that mean they were racially discriminated against and racism is the cause of these disparities?  Obviously not.  So why do we increasingly automatically assume that any racial disparity where any racial minority group is less represented than the average is caused by racism?

Kendi is a PhD in a social science field and yet doesn't understand the basics of social research because he's attributing a single variable ("racism") to phenomena that can be caused by multiple variables.  But because he has an activist's bias towards seeing POC/blacks as victims of racism, he needs to attribute all racial disparities to a single variable to further his worldview.  This is activism and not good scholarship, because good scholarship and research is informed by facts and objectivity in search of truth rather than bias and emotion.  Again, this doesn't mean there aren't cases where racism is the primary or sometimes even sole cause for a racial disparity, it just means it isn't always automatically the case that racism is the sole cause or even primary cause.

This kind of thinking is becoming so prevalent that any time an unarmed African American is killed by a cop we assume the cop did so due to racism.  Sometimes that can be the case, but many don't even wait to look at the evidence before making false assumptions.  And if you challenge these assumptions well you must be a racist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 24, 2021, 09:20:59 am
The left and right have gone absolutely stupid when it comes to identity politics.

The examples from the right are pretty self-evident.  I'll give you can example from the woke left from Ben Shapiro's speech, he gives this example:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/upshot/reader-questions-about-race-gender-and-mobility.html

Ibram X. Kendi is a PhD in African American studies and a professor of history and yet has said such a ridiculous statement as "when I see racial disparities, I see racism", which the NYT even used as the title for the article.  The growing trend today is this thinking based on the false assumption that racial disparities automatically mean racism somehow caused these disparities, which isn't necessarily true at all.  Sometimes it can be caused largely by racism, and sometimes it involves various factors, some having little or nothing to do with racism.  For instance, asians have higher education and income levels than whites.  Is that because whites were victimized by racial bias and asians, including many south asians with brown skin, were not?  Is it possible then that education and income levels are informed by variables other than just racism?  Yes obviously.  Same with NBA basketball players:  if white players and hispanic players are disproportionately less represented in the NBA compared to black players, does that mean they were racially discriminated against and racism is the cause of these disparities?  Obviously not.So why do we increasingly automatically assume that any racial disparity where any racial minority group is less represented than the average is caused by racism?

Kendi is a PhD in a social science field and yet doesn't understand the basics of social research because he's attributing a single variable ("racism") to phenomena that can be caused by multiple variables.  But because he has an activist's bias towards seeing POC/blacks as victims of racism, he needs to attribute all racial disparities to a single variable to further his worldview.

You've arrive at the bolded conclusion about this guy's entire worldview based on a single quote?


Quote
This is activism and not good scholarship, because good scholarship and research is informed by facts and objectivity in search of truth rather than bias and emotion.  Again, this doesn't mean there aren't cases where racism is the primary or sometimes even sole cause for a racial disparity, it just means it isn't always automatically the case that racism is the sole cause or even primary cause.

Do you have anything to say about the study he's referencing (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/21/17139300/economic-mobility-study-race-black-white-women-men-incarceration-income-chetty-hendren-jones-porter)? Y'know since you care so much about scholarship and research?

Quote
This kind of thinking is becoming so prevalent that any time an unarmed African American is killed by a cop we assume the cop did so due to racism.  Sometimes that can be the case, but many don't even wait to look at the evidence before making false assumptions.  And if you challenge these assumptions well you must be a racist.

That's a strawman. The actual argument is much more complicated.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 24, 2021, 08:00:05 pm
You've arrive at the bolded conclusion about this guy's entire worldview based on a single quote?
No, I arrived at the conclusion that he uses one variable (racism) for a phenomena involving multiple variables (racial disparities) because that's what he said.

Quote
Do you have anything to say about the study he's referencing (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/21/17139300/economic-mobility-study-race-black-white-women-men-incarceration-income-chetty-hendren-jones-porter)? Y'know since you care so much about scholarship and research?

Actually I do know a lot about scholarship and research, but no I didn't read the actual study.  Did Kendi even read the entire study before commenting?  Who knows.

Quote
That's a strawman. The actual argument is much more complicated.

The BLM movement started out of the Ferguson protests because a cop killed an unarmed black man.  If you read the case, like on its wiki page, you find out the cop did nothing wrong (besides using profanity at Brown).  Now, i'm not anti-BLM, i'm pro-BLM because cops often do wrong things, but i'm also anti-jumping-to-conclusions in court cases.

You're right, things are often much more complicated than they seem, and yet here we are, yelling at cops because someone retweeted something that's not even true, like "hands up down shoot", which was a lie that happened according to witnesses, some who recanted their lies.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 24, 2021, 08:04:07 pm
The truth is often buried underneath a large pile of total bullsh*t.  It's sad that it has to be that hard these days.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 06:09:00 am

1. So why do we increasingly automatically assume that any racial disparity where any racial minority group is less represented than the average is caused by racism?

2.  Same with NBA basketball players:  if white players and hispanic players are disproportionately less represented in the NBA compared to black players, does that mean they were racially discriminated against and racism is the cause of these disparities?  Obviously not.   


You wrote a thoughtful post, albeit one I disagree with.  So I took care to answer it.  Here goes:

Your hesitation to accept the premise that all disparity is rooted in racism is completely reasonable.  But, rather than reject the premise, let's use that disconnect to explore some of your questions and possible answers:

1. Do we accept that any human, raised in the same circumstances, will - with normal variability - matures to the same potential ?  It seems that the "American dream" and our liberal values tell us that, right ?  It's actually a premise that is used to justify that racism is "over" now - ie. that we all have the same opportunities.  The public has, at least, rejected that there's some innate ability for some races to be able to do certain things. 

If that's true, then racial representation in any activity is necessarily a result of social constructs right ?  Calling it "Racism" may colour these constructs as negative but still they are differences due to social constructs, right ?  Because it's not biology so what else could it be?

Well what about mere social customs and habits?  Can it not be that Asian Americans just have the custom to work harder ?  Of course, that could be true but there are still some questions I have:

Don't all immigrants work harder when they arrive onshore ?  I have seen studies and read books that said this of Africans, German Jews in the 1800s, Indians etc.  When you look at the motivation for coming to America this makes sense.  So is it so easy to separate one race ?  Why do we hear about Asians doing this and not Jews or Africans ?  So there's a perception question.

Secondly, when you compare these people to those who share the race in the home country - are there differences ?  I would say so.  And from what I have seen there's no race or country that dominates in intelligence. 

Now, you will get a country that has customs in which they are interested but again it's social constructs, not nature.   

And there are large scale effects, such as geo-cultural forces that work to embed certain characteristics into a culture over time.  For example, the mountainous terrain of Afghanistan creates myriad enclaves of social groups, the fertile crescent of the Tigris and Eurphrates rivers made a crossroads for cultural interchange that gave birth to civilization, the effects of Christianity with the Monarchy together on the peoples of Europe (see Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond) are such effects.

So does it mean that Afghans are naturally insular, Iraqis of the era were friendly, and white Europeans greedy etc. etc. etc. ?  No - these are still constructs.  Adopting an Afghan baby and raising her in Toronto means you'll get a Toronto baby.

---

So instead of having incendiary conversations of racial blame, can we have a conversation about such effects as these and accept that - yes - some groups and subgroups may be better at some things sometimes ?  At some point, sure.  There are academic conversations as such right now, even. 
We may be APPROACHING a time when we can actually discuss race with something like a 'public' but we're not there yet.  People are too inclined to blame racial/national/ethnic groups for their characteristics, effectively because those characteristics are different from some other group.

2. Why are blacks good at basketball and not hockey ?  Do you think that there aren't social factors involved such as the placement of hockey rinks, cost of competing, placement of basketball courts in areas where black kids grew up vs. baseball diamonds, etc. ? 

Did you know that in the mid 20th century Jews were noted for basketball abilities for the same reasons of urban access to facilities ?  Did you know that people expounded on the reasons:

Quote
Jews were believed to have a genetic edge, being endowed by nature with superior balance, greater speed and sharper eyes -- not to mention, in the words of one sportswriter, a ''scheming mind'' and ''flashy trickiness.''
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/00/04/16/reviews/000416.16holtlt.html

So - until we educate the masses that perceptions on race need more than observational/knee-jerk assessments (rather than just getting them to accept that racism is "wrong") then we will not be able to have such discussions productively.  They will, instead, serve the short-term purpose of inflaming and garnering support from the in-group.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 25, 2021, 09:53:14 am
So - until we educate the masses that perceptions on race need more than observational/knee-jerk assessments (rather than just getting them to accept that racism is "wrong") then we will not be able to have such discussions productively.  They will, instead, serve the short-term purpose of inflaming and garnering support from the in-group.

And people wonder why Trump has so much support. Trump is just an arrogant, greedy idiot. He isn't interested in Marxist brainwashing or 'educating the masses', you pompous, arrogant elitist. The masses aren't interested in being educated by the likes of you and your brainless bullshit philosophy. They'd rather do away with democracy itself if this is what it brings.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 25, 2021, 10:02:59 am
No, I arrived at the conclusion that he uses one variable (racism) for a phenomena involving multiple variables (racial disparities) because that's what he said.

Except he didn't say that.

"When I see racial disparities, I see racism" doesn't mean he only sees racism.

Quote
The BLM movement started out of the Ferguson protests because a cop killed an unarmed black man.  If you read the case, like on its wiki page, you find out the cop did nothing wrong (besides using profanity at Brown).  Now, i'm not anti-BLM, i'm pro-BLM because cops often do wrong things, but i'm also anti-jumping-to-conclusions in court cases.

You're right, things are often much more complicated than they seem, and yet here we are, yelling at cops because someone retweeted something that's not even true, like "hands up down shoot", which was a lie that happened according to witnesses, some who recanted their lies.

I'm not sure what this has to do with he point, which is that, while not every single police shooting is unjustified or motivated by racism, institutional racism creates the conditions under which black people are more likley to encounter cops, increasing the chances for violence.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 10:03:55 am
1. And people wonder why Trump has so much support.
2. Trump is just an arrogant, greedy idiot.
3. He isn't interested in Marxist brainwashing or 'educating the masses', you pompous, arrogant elitist. The masses aren't interested in being educated by the likes of you and your brainless bullshit philosophy.
4. They'd rather do away with democracy itself if this is what it brings.
1. Yes, I still wonder this.
2. Ok.
3. Ok, so you think they're perfect ?  Why did they elect Biden and Trudeau then ?  They saw the error of their ways and dumped Trump and Harper ?  Also - if you can explain what was incorrect in what I posted I'd be interested, if you're up for it.
4. People had to be educated to accept democracy in the first place right ?  There's a difference between trusting the institution of democracy and thinking that the masses are perfect.  The latter point of view is a narcissistic one - employed by the advertising industry.

More importantly, you just posted again insulting me and saying I was wrong by just ... saying so.  Not saying why.  Can you follow up with some reasons or will you just call me arrogant and stomp away like a teenager ?  Let's wait and see...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 12:12:40 pm
Trump is just an arrogant, ... you pompous, arrogant elitist. 

You really like the word 'arrogant' huh ?  What do you call a guy who just thinks he's right without having to provide any reasons ? 🤔
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2021, 02:39:56 pm

You wrote a thoughtful post, albeit one I disagree with.  So I took care to answer it.  Here goes:

Your hesitation to accept the premise that all disparity is rooted in racism is completely reasonable.  But, rather than reject the premise, let's use that disconnect to explore some of your questions and possible answers:

1. Do we accept that any human, raised in the same circumstances, will - with normal variability - matures to the same potential ?  It seems that the "American dream" and our liberal values tell us that, right ?  It's actually a premise that is used to justify that racism is "over" now - ie. that we all have the same opportunities.  The public has, at least, rejected that there's some innate ability for some races to be able to do certain things. 

If that's true, then racial representation in any activity is necessarily a result of social constructs right ?  Calling it "Racism" may colour these constructs as negative but still they are differences due to social constructs, right ?  Because it's not biology so what else could it be?

Well what about mere social customs and habits?  Can it not be that Asian Americans just have the custom to work harder ?  Of course, that could be true but there are still some questions I have:

Don't all immigrants work harder when they arrive onshore ?  I have seen studies and read books that said this of Africans, German Jews in the 1800s, Indians etc.  When you look at the motivation for coming to America this makes sense.  So is it so easy to separate one race ?  Why do we hear about Asians doing this and not Jews or Africans ?  So there's a perception question.

Secondly, when you compare these people to those who share the race in the home country - are there differences ?  I would say so.  And from what I have seen there's no race or country that dominates in intelligence. 

Now, you will get a country that has customs in which they are interested but again it's social constructs, not nature.   

Well you seem to agree with me actually.  My point was that there are a great variety of reasons why people from some racial group will do better in some areas of life than others.  It can be cultural, economic, education, and yes even racial bias.  In terms of intelligence I've never seen any evidence to suggest one race is smarter or dumber than the other.  But there's many hypothesis that look at Jewish and many asian cultures that show that parents in those cultures put a great emphasis on education from a very early age and pressure their children to do into professional fields.

So as I said, racism isn't necessarily the sole reason why race A does worse than race B.  In some cases it may be one of the reasons, maybe in some cases the primary reason, and in some cases not a significant factor at all.  These phenomena are complex and contain multiple variables as I've said, and to conclude it's always "racism" without doing a proper analysis of many possible variables is just bad social science that's used increasingly to discriminate against races like whites and asians etc.  Doing so should absolutely be illegal.  So when Ibrahim X Kendi says "When I see racial disparities, I see racism" he's just preaching bad social science and emotional activism rather than research and scholarship, because we know that not all racial disparities are based on racism, unless the NBA, NFL, track and field, badminton, and ping-pong are racist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 02:43:59 pm
If you are talking about 'discriminating' by programs like affirmative action, then just stop seeing as that and see it as trying to provide a leg up to people who are disadvantaged... for some reason.  That way, you would agree it's not a permanent program either.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2021, 02:48:09 pm
So - until we educate the masses that perceptions on race need more than observational/knee-jerk assessments (rather than just getting them to accept that racism is "wrong") then we will not be able to have such discussions productively.  They will, instead, serve the short-term purpose of inflaming and garnering support from the in-group.

Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc.  We live in a society filled with people who are cowards and sheep who just go along with things so they aren't mobbed on twitter or dismissed from their jobs by their PC employers who care more about PR and not being labeled as racist/sexist than they care about facts.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 02:57:15 pm
1. Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc. 

2.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

If you want to step on a podium and say people are afraid of being labelled, then do also point out those - like him - who don't deserve to be heard, who don't put any thought into formulating an opinion.

2. Yeah, well 'The Centrist' sure expressed some HURT FEELINGS against THE FACTS I POSTED.  There are no facts that racial inequality isn't socialized, and can't be corrected.  Sorry, Ben and Centrist - go punch your pillows now...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2021, 03:06:09 pm
If you are talking about 'discriminating' by programs like affirmative action, then just stop seeing as that and see it as trying to provide a leg up to people who are disadvantaged... for some reason.  That way, you would agree it's not a permanent program either.

So you're in favour of racial discrimination in order to prevent "racial disparities".  Did you not just listen to anything I wrote?

If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.  Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs?  It's insane.  I'm fine with giving them education, language training, free healthcare, even income supports, and everything else they need to succeed, but i'm not going to support racially discriminatory policies.

Cynic isn't exactly wrong, you go along with virtually all of the SJW agenda.  Do you have any original thoughts of your own or do you just submit to whatever the mainstream progressive agenda tells you to support?  You're PC and afraid of offending anyone, and this is exactly the problem.  Being anti-science and pro-discrimination because "it feels good to help the poor" is total nonsense.  If you want to help the poor then support social programs, don't be racist against people and don't step on other people's basic human rights.  Two wrong don't make a right.

My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs.  I thought this is everything we were fighting to eliminate in our society and now the pendulum is swung hard in the opposite direction.  It's insane.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2021, 03:12:56 pm
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

If you want to step on a podium and say people are afraid of being labelled, then do also point out those - like him - who don't deserve to be heard, who don't put any thought into formulating an opinion.

2. Yeah, well 'The Centrist' sure expressed some HURT FEELINGS against THE FACTS I POSTED.  There are no facts that racial inequality isn't socialized, and can't be corrected.  Sorry, Ben and Centrist - go punch your pillows now...


1. Evidence and logic are the only thing that matters.  This is regardless of someone's placement on the ideological spectrum.  I think everyone deserves to be heard, but not everyone deserves to be listened to, because some ideas are better than others based on evidence and logic.

2.  "Corrected" how?  Through policies that are discriminatory?  The ends don't always justify the means.  Anyone who needs society's support deserves it, unless it means trampling on someone else's fundamental human rights.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 25, 2021, 04:09:57 pm
Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc.  We live in a society filled with people who are cowards and sheep who just go along with things so they aren't mobbed on twitter or dismissed from their jobs by their PC employers who care more about PR and not being labeled as racist/sexist than they care about facts.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.

Ironically you're not presenting any facts here. You feel society is too PC, you feel people self-censor out of fear, you feel employers fire people who cross certain lines. And above all you feel this is (a) new (b) widespread and (c) a serious threat to, I dunno, free speech and men's rights I guess?

But society has always had written and unwritten rules about what people can and cannot say; people have always self-censored out of fear and employers have always fired people for arbitrary reasons. Where's the actual evidence that shifting social norms around speech are a greater threat now than in the past when you would be jailed for believing in Communism or fired for talking about starting a union?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 04:12:05 pm

1. If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.   Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs? 

2. Cynic isn't exactly wrong, you go along with virtually all of the SJW agenda.  Do you have any original thoughts of your own or do you just submit to whatever the mainstream progressive agenda tells you to support?  You're PC and afraid of offending anyone, and this is exactly the problem. 

3.  My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs. 

1. Your post is insane.  We didn't get to the point where we could discuss specific programs and here you are jumping ahead and giving a Ugandan my job.  Let's forget it. You're incapable of discussing this without getting upset.

2. I posted my original thoughts, and took a long time to do so.  Instead of reading my posts, which you don't do, you instead repost your ideas and accuse me of being afraid and doctrinaire.  Your loss.

3. Your friend is probably bad at his job, or maybe he does a bad job of reading this - as is your problem.

Anyway, I'm doing great in my career as a white middle-aged male.  I have a female boss, POC and younger than me... we get along fine.  I don't wet my pants and scream when she walks in the room.  She deserves to be there. 

But I guess I should ask you how I really feel about this situation - I'm afraid right ?  Right ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 25, 2021, 04:15:40 pm

1. Evidence and logic are the only thing that matters. 

1. You're right.  The Centrist posts that I'm arrogant and you post that I'm afraid...  No evidence, and no logic.

Have a good night.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 25, 2021, 04:56:41 pm
1. Your post is insane.  We didn't get to the point where we could discuss specific programs and here you are jumping ahead and giving a Ugandan my job.  Let's forget it. You're incapable of discussing this without getting upset.

2. I posted my original thoughts, and took a long time to do so.  Instead of reading my posts, which you don't do, you instead repost your ideas and accuse me of being afraid and doctrinaire.  Your loss.

3. Your friend is probably bad at his job, or maybe he does a bad job of reading this - as is your problem.

Anyway, I'm doing great in my career as a white middle-aged male.  I have a female boss, POC and younger than me... we get along fine.  I don't wet my pants and scream when she walks in the room.  She deserves to be there. 

1. I get upset about issues that are upsetting, like racial and gender discrimination.

2.  Sorry I shouldn't have said "thoughts", I should have said "positions".

3.  I've had POC and female bosses too.  No issue with them because I don't judge people by their race or gender.  My issue is when people are hired over other people for the colour of their skin or their gender, which I thought was the whole problem to begin with.  Solving a problem by committing the same sin against others is hypocrisy.

Whether you are happy in your job is separate from the issue of whether people in general have the right to move up within an organization without skin colour or gender being a barrier.

Here's an IT boss taking a question from a feminist about the gender gap at Oculus Rift IT.  Who is for equality here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzmbW4ueGdg
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 26, 2021, 12:37:49 pm
Canadian Civil Service stats:

Quote
4. Women
55.3% of employees are women (55.2% in 2010)
49.4% of executives are women (43.7% in 2010)

So, there is parity.  This means 1/8 employees will have 3 female bosses in a row above them, following probability odds.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 26, 2021, 12:55:50 pm
So you're in favour of racial discrimination in order to prevent "racial disparities".  Did you not just listen to anything I wrote?

If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?
  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.  Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs?  It's insane.  I'm fine with giving them education, language training, free healthcare, even income supports, and everything else they need to succeed, but i'm not going to support racially discriminatory policies.

Would it kill you to provide even the tiniest shred of evidence that completely unqualified people are being hired based on the colour of their skin or whatever? Because it sounds like a bunch of made up bullshit to me.


Quote
My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs.  I thought this is everything we were fighting to eliminate in our society and now the pendulum is swung hard in the opposite direction.  It's insane.

It's extremely sexist to assume those women are where they are because of employment equity hiring and not because they are qualified. Maybe your friend isn't as good at his job as they are and that's why he's stuck.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 26, 2021, 03:56:37 pm
Canadian Civil Service stats:

So, there is parity.  This means 1/8 employees will have 3 female bosses in a row above them, following probability odds.

Those stats are from 2010, well before the Trudeau/woke era.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 26, 2021, 04:09:36 pm
Those stats are from 2010, well before the Trudeau/woke era.

No - from 2019.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/demographic-snapshot-federal-public-service-2019.html
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 26, 2021, 04:10:13 pm
1. You're right.  The Centrist posts that I'm arrogant and you post that I'm afraid...  No evidence, and no logic.

Have a good night.

I don't know about afraid but just about every post you make reeks of arrogance. And here you are flouncing off in a huff again.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 26, 2021, 04:16:55 pm
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

You're looking in a mirror. I'd like to discuss things calmly if there was anyone here capable of such a discussion. But what there seems to be here are a few nasty extremists from the far left and you - a tower of condescension willing to be polite only for a limited time, until it's clear you're not convincing someone. Then you are full of indignation and contempt and the pretense of any sort of interest in what others think goes out the window. You're locked in your little multicultural bubble in downtown Toronto and imagine that's the whole world and everyone should act and think just like you.

The masses aren't going to be educated by you or people like you, you pompous petty-bourgeois fool. They're going to come for you and your out-of-touch elitist world with pitchforks and torches instead and pull everything down around your ears. And you'll be left wondering "But, but I was so nice and caring and understanding!"

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 26, 2021, 04:18:08 pm
No - from 2019.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/demographic-snapshot-federal-public-service-2019.html

Ah but you see the number of women executives went up a whopping 5%, clearly you're seeing a misandrist purge of the higher echelons of government.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: The Cynic on November 26, 2021, 04:21:47 pm
Would it kill you to provide even the tiniest shred of evidence that completely unqualified people are being hired based on the colour of their skin or whatever? Because it sounds like a bunch of made up bullshit to me.

How would it be even possible to supply such 'proof' in a medium you would accept? What type of statistical study could even be launched? What organization is going to admit that it places more importance on 'equity' than merit? Even Trudeau isn't likely to admit that, though it's quite clear he does.

Quote
It's extremely sexist to assume those women are where they are because of employment equity hiring and not because they are qualified. Maybe your friend isn't as good at his job as they are and that's why he's stuck.

If women make up 30% of a caucus yet are 50% of cabinet that's not due to merit. That's clearly equity promotion.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 26, 2021, 04:23:05 pm
Would it kill you to provide even the tiniest shred of evidence that completely unqualified people are being hired based on the colour of their skin or whatever? Because it sounds like a bunch of made up bullshit to me.

I never said completely unqualified candidates are being hired, I said the most qualified are not always being hired.

The Employment Equity program assumes that if hiring representation in the gov of the 3 designated disadvantaged groups does not match that of the general labour force then some kind of injustice is happening and things need to be done to address this inequity.  It is equality of outcome nonsense.  If asians are hired more often than aboriginals or black Canadians, that doesn't mean racism/injustice is necessarily happening (although that can certainly be a factor), it can also mean that asians are more qualified because of education background etc.

I support measuring these stats and seeing if there are real discriminatory barriers for marginalized groups that can be eliminated (ie: accommodation supports for disabled people), which is a part of the Employment Equity efforts, but I don't support not hiring purely on merit.

https://psacunion.ca/sites/psac/files/attachments/pdfs/employment-equity-toolkit-updated-2018-july-en.pdf
Quote
Employment Equity as part of the merit criteria:

The PSEA defines merit. An appointment is made on the basis of merit
when the person appointed meets the essential qualifications of the
position.   In addition, the deputy head may establish and apply any asset
qualification, operational requirement or organizational need, currently or
in the future in order to find the ‘right fit’ for the organization. The deputy
head may also apply the current and future needs of the public service,
identified by the employer and deemed to be relevant by the deputy head.
When employment equity considerations are part of a staffing
competition, they must be included as one of the above criteria and
therefore will be consistent with the definition of merit.   

Employment equity, or being a member of one of the four designated
groups, can be a criterion in a staffing process in the following ways:

1)  it can be included as an asset qualification
2)  it can be included as fulfilling an organizational need
3)  it can be included as fulfilling a need of the public service

For example, where there is a need to hire a person who is
familiar with Aboriginal culture and languages to provide service
a particular Aboriginal community, the department can state that
being an Aboriginal person would be considered an asset criteria
or an organizational need.  Or, where there is a significant under-
representation of women in a particular occupational category,
a department can list hiring women as an organizational need in
accordance with their employment equity plan.

Employment equity as the area of selection:

Another way in which employment equity can be part of the staffing
process is through the “area of selection”.  The area of selection defines
who will be eligible to apply for a job.  It can refer to a geographic area
(for example, a job will only be open to people in the National Capital
Region), organizational (a job will only be open to members of the
same department), or occupational criteria (a job will only be open to
members of a certain occupation), or employment equity (a job will only
be open to members of one or more of the employment equity groups).   
However, according to Public Service Commission policy, a department
can only limit the Area of Selection to an employment equity group
where it is justified by the department’s employment equity plan.  That
means, there must be evidence of a significant gap in representation for
that designated group (the representation of the group in the workplace
or occupation is much lower than their representation in the external
labour market).
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 26, 2021, 04:33:50 pm
I never said completely unqualified candidates are being hired, I said the most qualified are not always being hired.

So what was the point of this then:

Quote
If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.  Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs?  It's insane.  I'm fine with giving them education, language training, free healthcare, even income supports, and everything else they need to succeed, but i'm not going to support racially discriminatory policies.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on November 26, 2021, 08:15:32 pm
Delete
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 27, 2021, 05:38:23 am
I don't know about afraid but just about every post you make reeks of arrogance. And here you are flouncing off in a huff again.

I think you're far more arrogant than I could be because you don't see any obligation to explain your reasoning for anything.

You just post it like it's obvious fact.  I have the humility of looking for reasons to back up my opinions.  That's not arrogance it's open-mindedness.

I think you are not used to people challenging your point of view, personally.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 27, 2021, 05:42:48 am
You're looking in a mirror. I'd like to discuss things calmly if there was anyone here capable of such a discussion. But what there seems to be here are a few nasty extremists from the far left and you - a tower of condescension willing to be polite only for a limited time, until it's clear you're not convincing someone. Then you are full of indignation and contempt and the pretense of any sort of interest in what others think goes out the window. You're locked in your little multicultural bubble in downtown Toronto and imagine that's the whole world and everyone should act and think just like you.

So because of YOUR perception than I'm arrogant (and I am from Toronto ??) you won't even discuss things with me ?

And I'M arrogant ?

Quote
The masses aren't going to be educated by you or people like you, you pompous petty-bourgeois fool. They're going to come for you and your out-of-touch elitist world with pitchforks and torches instead and pull everything down around your ears. And you'll be left wondering "But, but I was so nice and caring and understanding!"

The level of public discussion has degenerated because of people like you, who simply state a bias such as "you like multicult" "you are from Toronto" and then close out the conversation with that.  There are things called facts that need to be looked at.  What we don't need is a culture war.

Do the so-called 'woke' go too far sometimes ?  Absolutely.  But when they do they are just pursuing a moral culture war in the same way you do, but for the other side.

And yet another post that doesn't address issues from you.  You are tiresome and you have nothing.  I think if you post some facts you will find I agree with you on more than a few things...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 05, 2021, 01:21:05 pm
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/

Have you seen this picture?

How do you counter people who are so purposefully disgusting?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 06, 2021, 01:35:13 am
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/

Have you seen this picture?

How do you counter people who are so purposefully disgusting?

Stack the Supreme Court and force in reforms like anti-gerrymandering and pro-democracy legislation.  Get rid of equal representation for states in the Senate.  States like Wyoming, with less than a million people have the same representation as California.

That won’t get rid of turds like the one in your article as Kentucky is a backwater poop-hole.  But it would make sure to marginalized these people politically.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 06, 2021, 02:04:22 am
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/

Have you seen this picture?

How do you counter people who are so purposefully disgusting?

Guns are Jesus.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 08, 2021, 07:23:09 am
https://twitter.com/Leo_Puglisi6/status/1468458890052333568

Someone set fire to the FOX Christmas Tree

(https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1468458391630716930/pu/img/oLzhp6RYGF0Npxmo?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on December 09, 2021, 10:04:58 am
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/

Have you seen this picture?

How do you counter people who are so purposefully disgusting?

I'm told the answer is to stop focusing so much on identity politics and virtue signalling.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 09, 2021, 11:51:26 am
Yeah maybe
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 29, 2021, 07:53:33 pm
I'm told the answer is to stop focusing so much on identity politics and virtue signalling.

Your arguments against criticism of identity politics and woke culture is basically that, well, other stuff is worse so these aren't problems.

That's like refusing to get cavities filled because you have diabetes.  It's totally illogical.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: kimmy on December 30, 2021, 02:02:16 pm
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/

Have you seen this picture?

How do you counter people who are so purposefully disgusting?

Good trigger-discipline by everybody in the photo except the congressman himself.  He's clearly a poseur, an all hat and no cattle type.


I'm told the answer is to stop focusing so much on identity politics and virtue signalling.

So first off, it should be pointed out that this photo is identity-politics for Republicans. It's virtue-signalling to their voters; it's just that it's a different "virtue" being signaled.  "We share your values."

And yeah, being outraged over it is giving them exactly what they want.  "See? The liberal gun-grabbers are offended by this photo of a traditional American family exercising their freedom to bear arms."

This is a US Rep for a gun-happy rural district in Kentucky, and the notion that he must have posted this to mock the victims of school shootings in a different state is quite a reach, and not one that would persuade anybody who's not already inclined to believe that Republicans are inherently evil.  It's not actually an argument for gun control, it's at best an argument that this Rep Massie is an insensitive ****.

Being outraged over this gives the rednecks exactly what they love. "Triggering the libs" makes them laugh. They will be delighted to see the "Libtards having a meltdown over Rep Massie's family Christmas photo!"   Being outraged over this might make urban liberals less likely to vote Republican, but they already weren't going to vote Republican. It's preaching to the choir, with no awareness of how it sounds to people who aren't in the choir.


 -k
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 30, 2021, 03:23:14 pm
I agree with your post, k, but I'm not triggered.

I'm just asking how to counter this.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: kimmy on December 30, 2021, 03:36:34 pm
I agree with your post, k, but I'm not triggered.

I'm just asking how to counter this.

What's to counter?  Redneck US Rep sends out redneck Christmas card to redneck constituents?  Is this something that needs a response?

 -k
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 30, 2021, 05:37:02 pm
I agree with your post, k, but I'm not triggered.

I'm just asking how to counter this.

You're basically asking how to make Americans not Americans.

Canadians might think similarly to some people in ie: LA or NYC, but much of the US just thinks differently than us.  I even know people from California and NY state who live outside the big metropolises who are very "American" in their thinking.  There's nothing anyone can do, Americans are not Canadians and aren't like Europeans on issues like guns, lockdowns, and vaccines.  Their country was born out of anti-government violent revolution and the country was founded on and its institutions built upon a distrust of government and overreach of the state.

Canadians are much more compliant to gov authority, for better or worse.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 30, 2021, 09:00:41 pm
What's to counter?  Redneck US Rep sends out redneck Christmas card to redneck constituents?  Is this something that needs a response?

 -k

Maybe not
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 30, 2021, 09:03:04 pm
1. You're basically asking how to make Americans not Americans.

2. Canadians might think similarly to some people in ie: LA or NYC, but much of the US just thinks differently than us.  I even know people from California and NY state who live outside the big metropolises who are very "American" in their thinking. 
3. There's nothing anyone can do, Americans are not Canadians and aren't like Europeans on issues like guns, lockdowns, and vaccines.  Their country was born out of anti-government violent revolution and the country was founded on and its institutions built upon a distrust of government and overreach of the state.

 
1. I think probably more Americans think this is stupid than think it's a great idea.
2. It's not about guns so much as making imagery that is designed to provoke people.  Like this 'Let's go Brandon' thing - I saw something from an American righty that had HIM triggered because somebody said it to Biden and he didn't even know what it was.
3. Well, things are changing in ways that you don't perceive, it seems.  Like I say, it's about provocation...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on December 30, 2021, 09:06:36 pm
Canadians are much more compliant to gov authority, for better or worse.
Compliance to authority is an overstatment. I think we're just more committed to why its important to have a government in the first place.  We're less quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater however tempting the urge may be.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: waldo on December 31, 2021, 01:24:04 am
(https://i.imgur.com/VOMoMY9.jpg)

member kimmy, are you serious... gunnies have at least... at least... 6 court challenges to the related legislation introducing firearm reclassification, to the buyback program, etc.. And you somehow expect the federal government to proceed while ignoring these active legislation challenges? Surely you can't be that stoopid - yes?

setting that oh so 'hot' pic of the gunnie girls aside, care to comment on the heelarious name of the CCFR... the sadsack org that has the temerity to claim Canadians have Firearm Rights? Perhaps you could also comment on its most boisterous positioning for US-style gun policies for Canada; most notably open carry in rural areas and concealed carry in Canadian cities. Those are your peeps, hey member kimmy!

as for the Nova Scotia multiple shootings/killings, again, surely you're not so stoopid as to expect details/full transparency in the face of:
=> an ongoing Public Inquiry that is scheduled to deliver its findings 'mid 2022'
=> ongoing/active police investigations
=> multiple lawsuits

What's to counter?  Redneck US Rep sends out redneck Christmas card to redneck constituents?  Is this something that needs a response?
(https://www.reuters.com/resizer/fwybYo6q6tdFqTinRY-2D8MtBag=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/OXUU3RSEIJJYRDXUWTHAHVTGK4.jpg)

the waldo trusts member MH's 'countering response' focus is in terms of how that type of gross American gun culture messaging permeates into Canada... and most particularly how you and your fellow gunnies here embrace it. That your only comment on the photo itself is to flippantly tout gun 'trigger discipline' is most telling - about you!

by the by, above on a like theme, I copied in a prior post from another thread... one you either missed or, more likely, ran away from!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on December 31, 2021, 02:41:30 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/VOMoMY9.jpg)

the waldo trusts member MH's 'countering response' focus is in terms of how that type of gross American gun culture messaging permeates into Canada... and most particularly how you and your fellow gunnies here embrace it. That your only comment on the photo itself is to flippantly tout gun 'trigger discipline' is most telling - about you!

by the by, above on a like theme, I copied in a prior post from another thread... one you either missed or, more likely, ran away from!
What’s the problem?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on December 31, 2021, 05:48:18 pm
What’s the problem?

Pictures of gun people holding guns on a gun girl gun calendar.... will likely include....

extended pause...

GUNS
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: kimmy on January 09, 2022, 03:23:58 pm
the waldo trusts member MH's 'countering response' focus is in terms of how that type of gross American gun culture messaging permeates into Canada... and most particularly how you and your fellow gunnies here embrace it. That your only comment on the photo itself is to flippantly tout gun 'trigger discipline' is most telling - about you!

Is that what you were trying to express, MH? You were concerned that this Kentucky politician's Christmas photo was promoting gun culture in Canada?

If that's the case, why is your concern over gun culture focused on rural people with long guns? The large majority of gun violence in Canada isn't committed in rural areas by people with rifles.  It's committed in big cities by people with handguns.

Blaming people who look like this...
(https://i.imgur.com/P8GNqv1.png)
 ...or this...
(https://i.imgur.com/FUjIFVc.png)
...for gun violence in Canada is just more scapegoating of people who the Liberals aren't afraid to offend and deflecting attention away from people who the Liberals are afraid to offend.

by the by, above on a like theme, I copied in a prior post from another thread... one you either missed or, more likely, ran away from!

 Patience, bud.  I will get to it.

 -k
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on February 22, 2022, 03:38:57 pm
Another right-wing terror attack in the U.S.A.  (https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2022/02/22/38645257/suspected-shooter-in-normandale-park-mass-shooting-identified?cb=21ae12e055197380202cf49d9400f5b2)

Quote
“He talked about wanting to go shoot commies and antifa all the friggin‘ time,” Christenson told OPB. “He was just a sad angry dude. … He talked about wanting to do this for a while. He was angry at the mask mandates, he was angry at the damned liberals.”

Sounds just like our resident right wing nut, someone who consumes a steady diet of disinformation and fear mongering and is themselves consumed by it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on February 23, 2022, 12:09:59 pm
Republican Rick Scott has released an "11 point plan to save America (https://t.co/tWBkMwrw3c)". It says nothing about how to improve schools, support families, help small businesses, lower drug prices, rebuild crumbling infrastructure, or address the racial divide. Instead, it is hyper focused on the culture war and slashing public services even further while increasing taxes for lower income Americans. This is not a serious political document, but a perfect encapsulation of the state of the conservative movement, which is to say it's completely insane. Dems need to hammer the hell out of this lunacy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on February 23, 2022, 12:18:17 pm
Republican Rick Scott has released an "11 point plan to save America (https://t.co/tWBkMwrw3c)". It says nothing about how to improve schools, support families, help small businesses, lower drug prices, rebuild crumbling infrastructure, or address the racial divide. Instead, it is hyper focused on the culture war and slashing public services even further while increasing taxes for lower income Americans. This is not a serious political document, but a perfect encapsulation of the state of the conservative movement, which is to say it's completely insane. Dems need to hammer the hell out of this lunacy.

Let's see:

1. Our kids will say the pledge of allegiance,
salute the Flag, learn that America is a great
country, and choose the school that best fits
them.

2. Government will never again ask American
citizens to disclose their race, ethnicity,
or skin color on any government forms.

3. The soft-on-crime days of coddling criminal
behavior will end. We will re-fund and
respect the police because they, not the
criminals, are the good guys.

4. We will secure our border, finish building
the wall, and name it after President Donald
Trump.

5. We will grow America’s economy, starve
Washington’s economy, and stop Socialism.

6. We will eliminate all federal programs that
can be done locally, and enact term limits
for federal bureaucrats and Congress.

7. We will protect the integrity of American
Democracy and stop left-wing efforts to
rig elections.

8. We will protect, defend, and promote the
American Family at all costs.

9. Men are men, women are women, and
unborn babies are babies. We believe in
science.

10. Americans will be free to welcome God
into all aspects of our lives

11. We are Americans, not globalists
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on February 23, 2022, 12:19:26 pm
5. 6. and 11. seem like they could have policy implications, but ... not really.

Trump spent sky-high amounts, reduced taxes and kicked the deficit into high gear.  No doubt that that would resume with these guys.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on February 23, 2022, 12:24:20 pm
One of my favourite bits is the education section where it says "Public schools will focus on the 3 R’s, not indoctrinate children with critical race theory or any other political ideology" right before it talks about making kids "say the Pledge of Allegiance, stand for the National Anthem, and honor the American Flag" and "Public schools will teach our
children to love America because, while not perfect, it is exceptional, it is good, and it is a beacon of freedom in an often-dark world." Of course all of this will be done at the state level since he wants to eliminate the federal department of education. It's incoherent. It'd be funny if the whole thing didn't reek so much of fascism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on February 23, 2022, 02:01:03 pm
1. One of my favourite bits is the education section where it says "Public schools will focus on the 3 R’s, not indoctrinate children with critical race theory or any other political ideology" right before it talks about making kids "say the Pledge of Allegiance, stand for the National Anthem, and honor the American Flag" and "Public schools will teach our
children to love America because, while not perfect, it is exceptional, it is good, and it is a beacon of freedom in an often-dark world." Of course all of this will be done at the state level since he wants to eliminate the federal department of education. It's incoherent. It'd be funny if the whole thing didn't reek so much of fascism.

1. Well I always thought it was weird that Communist countries had 'Ministry of Propaganda'... maybe they are just more self aware than the US and A
 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on February 24, 2022, 10:20:01 am
1. Well I always thought it was weird that Communist countries had 'Ministry of Propaganda'... maybe they are just more self aware than the US and A

I read an article a while ago that had the line "Americans are...the most thoroughly and passively indoctrinated people on earth." and I think about that all the time.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on February 24, 2022, 11:31:48 am
Comes in handy 😉

Those Rugby players on 9/11 were activated almost subliminally and likely prevented another attack
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on February 25, 2022, 01:29:25 pm
Lot of U.S. right wingers sporting massive hard-ons for Putin.

Here's (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-hate-putin-americans-suffer) Tucker Carlson asking why anyone would have beef with a bloodthirsty autocrat like vlad.

Here's (https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1496937857839153168) Delaware GOP's candidate for Senate in 2020 saying she "identif(ies) more with Putin's Christian values than I do with Joe Biden."

Here's (https://www.advocate.com/politics/2022/2/24/steve-bannon-praises-putin-and-texas-anti-lgbtq-actions) former Trump confidante Steve Bannon and Betsy DeVos' brother Erie Prince loving putin's anti-woke bona fides.

And here's (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-praises-putins-genius-gop-fissures-grow-ukraine-crisis-rcna17259) the big dummy himself praising Putin's "genius".
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: eyeball on February 25, 2022, 10:53:18 pm
Lot of U.S. right wingers sporting massive hard-ons for Putin.

Here's (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-hate-putin-americans-suffer) Tucker Carlson asking why anyone would have beef with a bloodthirsty autocrat like vlad.

Here's (https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1496937857839153168) Delaware GOP's candidate for Senate in 2020 saying she "identif(ies) more with Putin's Christian values than I do with Joe Biden."

Here's (https://www.advocate.com/politics/2022/2/24/steve-bannon-praises-putin-and-texas-anti-lgbtq-actions) former Trump confidante Steve Bannon and Betsy DeVos' brother Erie Prince loving putin's anti-woke bona fides.

And here's (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-praises-putins-genius-gop-fissures-grow-ukraine-crisis-rcna17259) the big dummy himself praising Putin's "genius".

Twenty years ago there was GWB's mesmerization when he gazed deep into Putin's eye's. Democrats have certainly done enough harm when accommodating the world's Bastards over the decades but Republicans really do take the cake especially in light of the overemphasis they place on the importance of their own fweedumz.

Where's Charlie Wilson when we really need him? Dead sad to say.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: queenmandy85 on February 26, 2022, 10:44:06 am
Putin was a clerk in the KGB stationed in a backwater place like Dresden, sorting newspaper clippings. When he got fired from that, he was a cab driver in Moscow. However, he knows how to project his fantasy as a "tough" guy and went into politics. He shovelled enough manure to get drunken Yeltsin to make him Vice President and, Boris' your uncle, he thinks he is Adolf Hitler. He is no Peter the Great. He is a frightened little psychopath, desperate for respect.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 01, 2022, 02:58:21 pm
AZ Senator Wendy Rogers says white nationalists are ‘patriots’ and called for hanging political enemies (https://www.azmirror.com/2022/02/26/wendy-rogers-racist-white-nationalists-patriots-and-called-for-hanging-political-enemies/)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 10, 2022, 10:48:40 am
The GOP continues its spiral into religious fascism:

Missouri lawmaker seeks to stop residents from obtaining abortions out of state
 (https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpolitics%2F2022%2F03%2F08%2Fmissouri-abortion-ban-texas-supreme-court%2F)

Idaho bill would make medical treatment for trans youth punishable by life in prison (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/597541-idaho-bill-would-make-medical-treatment-for-trans-youth-punishable-by)


Florida passes bill banning discussion of LGBT identities (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/florida-bassed-don-t-say-gay-bill-lgbtq-schools-1.6377169)


'Our state is terrorizing us': Texas families of transgender kids fight investigations (https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/-state-terrorizing-us-texas-families-transgender-kids-fight-investigat-rcna19282)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 21, 2022, 02:23:37 pm
USSC Justice Clarence Thomas in hospital with flu-like symptoms (https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-justice-thomas-hospitalized-with-infection-high-court-says-1.5827241)

Team Flu-Like Symptoms assemble! LFG!!!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 21, 2022, 03:47:23 pm
USSC Justice Clarence Thomas in hospital with flu-like symptoms (https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-justice-thomas-hospitalized-with-infection-high-court-says-1.5827241)

Team Flu-Like Symptoms assemble! LFG!!!
I choose not to share my feelings about him being sick.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 24, 2022, 11:47:02 am
High court won't say whether Thomas remains hospitalized (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/high-court-thomas-remains-hospitalized-83621802)

(https://c.tenor.com/YlpTgHM42ygAAAAM/birdman-ready.gif)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 24, 2022, 07:22:50 pm
The US Army has made the decision to reduce physical fitness standards for women.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 11:42:31 am
Legal Scholars Are Shocked By Ginni Thomas’s “Stop the Steal” Texts
 (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/legal-scholars-are-shocked-by-ginni-thomass-stop-the-steal-texts)

Quote
Several of the country’s most respected legal scholars say that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas must immediately recuse himself from any cases relating to the 2020 election and its aftermath, now that it has been revealed that his wife, Virginia (Ginni) Thomas, colluded extensively with a top White House adviser about overturning Joe Biden’s defeat of then President Donald Trump.

This **** is crazy btw. (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/31/is-ginni-thomas-a-threat-to-the-supreme-court)

Quote
Virginia (Ginni) Thomas, is a vocal right-wing activist. She has declared that America is in existential danger because of the “deep state” and the “fascist left,” which includes “transsexual fascists.” Thomas, a lawyer who runs a small political-lobbying firm, Liberty Consulting, has become a prominent member of various hard-line groups. Her political activism has caused controversy for years. For the most part, it has been dismissed as the harmless action of an independent spouse. But now the Court appears likely to secure victories for her allies in a number of highly polarizing cases—on abortion, affirmative action, and gun rights.

Hopefully Thomas recuses himself from this mortal coil soon.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:01:43 pm
Legal Scholars Are Shocked By Ginni Thomas’s “Stop the Steal” Texts
 (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/legal-scholars-are-shocked-by-ginni-thomass-stop-the-steal-texts)

This **** is crazy btw. (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/31/is-ginni-thomas-a-threat-to-the-supreme-court)

Hopefully Thomas recuses himself from this mortal coil soon.
LOL, legal scholars are shocked at constitutionally protected speech!   Are fascists actually supporting using people's legal, constitutionally protect private text messages?  The police state **** is getting out of control.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 25, 2022, 12:10:59 pm
The police state **** is getting out of control.
Time to defundvitvthen.
But are you really trying to pretend that attempts to get support from the army to effect a coup is protected speech? Or are you just that dumb?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:11:31 pm
LOL, legal scholars are shocked at constitutionally protected speech!   Are fascists actually supporting using people's legal, constitutionally protect private text messages?  The police state **** is getting out of control.

(https://c.tenor.com/FBn0Uw6wayQAAAAM/di-plein-zoo.gif)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:15:35 pm
(https://c.tenor.com/FBn0Uw6wayQAAAAM/di-plein-zoo.gif)
You should stop posting pictures of yourself and brush up on constitutionally protected speech, and stop your progression into police state behavior.  It's disgusting.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:15:52 pm
You should stop posting pictures of yourself and brush up on constitutionally protected speech, and stop your progression into police state behavior.  It's disgusting.

(https://c.tenor.com/FBn0Uw6wayQAAAAM/di-plein-zoo.gif)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:16:26 pm
Time to defundvitvthen.
But are you really trying to pretend that attempts to get support from the army to effect a coup is protected speech? Or are you just that dumb?
I don't know what you mean by "attempts to get support from the army".  That's BlueAnon talk.  Yes, it's protected speech you f**king fascist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:21:37 pm
Time to defundvitvthen.
But are you really trying to pretend that attempts to get support from the army to effect a coup is protected speech? Or are you just that dumb?

The issue isn't Thomas's activism or her deranged beliefs. it's the fact she tried to overturn the election while her husband was ruling on cases attempting to overturn the election. A believer in Boomer Facebook-tier conspiracy theories with a direct line to the highest court in the land is a major issue, it's banana republic level of corruption and one would have to be a partisan hack or a total idiot (or both) not to understand that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 25, 2022, 12:22:52 pm
I don't know what you mean by "attempts to get support from the army".  That's BlueAnon talk.  Yes, it's protected speech you f**king fascist.
You must not have read her texts that were released. No, trying to get the army to form a coup is not protected speech. I don't think even you are stupid enough to believe that. Time to resort to Plan B, which will inevitably be denying her texts say what they say.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:26:22 pm
You must not have read her texts that were released. No, trying to get the army to form a coup is not protected speech. I don't think even you are stupid enough to believe that. Time to resort to Plan B, which will inevitably be denying her texts say what they say.
I'm sorry to burst your police state bubble, but yep, it's all protected speech.  You're a lunatic.  Stop getting all your news from BlueAnon.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 25, 2022, 12:34:07 pm
I'm sorry to burst your police state bubble, but yep, it's all protected speech.  You're a lunatic.  Stop getting all your news from BlueAnon.
Conspiracy to commit a coup is not protected speech. You're getting more and more deranged.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:37:00 pm
Conspiracy to commit a coup is not protected speech. You're getting more and more deranged.

The "how dare you infringe on someone's protected speech!" line has big "guy caught sending dick pics to other women" energy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:38:33 pm
The "how dare you infringe on someone's protected speech!" line has big "guy caught sending dick pics to other women" energy.
I'm not sure how two private citizens consensually talking to each other is tantamount to your example.  Keep making excuses for police state behavior.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on March 25, 2022, 12:43:45 pm
I'm not sure how two private citizens consensually talking to each other is tantamount to your example.  Keep making excuses for police state behavior.
Actually Meadows doesn't sound like he was down with the coup. But her words are clear. And conspiracy to overthrow a legally elected government has never been protected speech. Kind of imbecilic to even pretend it ever was.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:45:30 pm
Actually Meadows doesn't sound like he was down with the coup. But her words are clear. And conspiracy to overthrow a legally elected government has never been protected speech. Kind of imbecilic to even pretend it ever was.
Yes, her words are clear.  It's protected speech.  I'm sorry that disappoints you.  Words are different than actions.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:47:12 pm
I'm not sure how two private citizens consensually talking to each other is tantamount to your example.  Keep making excuses for police state behavior.

Part of me hopes that you are actually aware that the texts themselves aren't the issue and that this is just a troll, but then you're the guy who didn't think slavery was part of the U.S. constitution and that washing your hands too much makes you get sick more, so it's more likely you're just that stupid.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on March 25, 2022, 12:51:21 pm
Part of me hopes that you are actually aware that the texts themselves aren't the issue and that this is just a troll, but then you're the guy who didn't think slavery was part of the U.S. constitution and that washing your hands too much makes you get sick more, so it's more likely you're just that stupid.
If texts aren't the issue, why are you and your cohort so obsessed with them?  I don't know what you mean by slavery being a part of the constitution.  That doesn't make any sense.  And no, I never said that washing your hands too much makes you sick.  That's an intellectually dishonest distortion.  No surprise.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on March 25, 2022, 12:59:18 pm
If texts aren't the issue, why are you and your cohort so obsessed with them? 

Oh so you are too stupid to understand why the wife of a USSC justice being deeply enmeshed in batshit conspiracies around cases that will come before the court might be an issue!

Thomas was the lone vote to block Congress’ access to White House records related to the coup attempt his wife was talking to the President's CoS about.

Quote
I don't know what you mean by slavery being a part of the constitution.  That doesn't make any sense. 

LOL come on jack.

Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasn’t even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  You’re a clown. 🤡


Quote
And no, I never said that washing your hands too much makes you sick.  That's an intellectually dishonest distortion.  No surprise.

Eh close enough; the broader point here is that you're a moron.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 05, 2022, 10:55:30 am
If you're wondering what else they have in mind after Roe vs. Wade goes, look to Texas:

Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/04/gov-greg-abbott-supreme-court-case-requiring-education-undocumented-children/9652463002/?utm_source=SND&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=statesman)

Quote
Gov. Greg Abbott said Wednesday that Texas would consider challenging a 1982 U.S. Supreme Court decision requiring states to offer free public education to all children, including those of undocumented immigrants.

Hard not to see this as being of a piece with the CRT and LGBTQ panics as part of a concerted attack on public education. They truly are monsters.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 08, 2022, 06:07:13 pm
Apparently Meghan McCain called former Republican campaign manager Steve Schmidt a pedo, which prompted him to go off on her for a glorious thread of tweets that completely destroyed her, exposed how Palin was the original Russian puppet, and ruined what remained of John McCain's legacy. Fun times!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 09:26:57 am
Do you think they actually believe this stuff?

"I want the Republican Party to take back the party to where you were when you cared about a woman's right to choose, you cared about the environment. Here I am, Nancy Pelosi, saying this country needs a strong Republican Party. Not a cult."-Nancy Pelosi (https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1523812812434329602?s=20&t=IJjJtFJ9PHB4ROFBFirN8A)

Republicans haven't cared about that stuff for as long as I've been alive, there's no reason to think they ever will. There's no going back, the GOP needs to be destroyed, root and branch.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 10:03:56 am
We are in a passing of eras now, so it may indeed be a time for the old 2-parties to be rocked and changed.

But the #1 thing that needs to change is how money goes into the political system.  That is rot.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 10:04:18 am
LOL you gotta be **** kidding me

Pro-abortion chalk message on Susan Collins’ sidewalk prompts police response. (https://bangordailynews.com/2022/05/09/news/bangor/pro-abortion-chalk-message-appears-on-susan-collins-bangor-sidewalk/)

Quote
Sen. Susan Collins was confronted with a pro-abortion rights message Saturday night when an unknown person or persons wrote in chalk on the sidewalk outside her West Broadway home in Bangor, prompting a police response.

“Susie, please, Mainers want WHPA —–> vote yes, clean up your mess,” the message read, according to a Bangor police report.

WHPA refers to the Women’s Health Protection Act, which would codify the right to abortion into law and ban restrictions on abortion access.
...
Bangor police responded to West Broadway at 9:20 p.m. Saturday to investigate a message written in chalk on a sidewalk, Bangor police spokesperson Wade Betters said.

“The message was not overtly threatening,” he said.

The sidewalk message was not visible on Monday afternoon.

“We are grateful to the Bangor police officers and the City public works employee who responded to the defacement of public property in front of our home,” Collins said.

Goes to show how insulated elites are from the consequences of their actions and the people that they effect.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 10:05:28 am
We are in a passing of eras now, so it may indeed be a time for the old 2-parties to be rocked and changed.

But the #1 thing that needs to change is how money goes into the political system.  That is rot.

Someone needs to [redact] the last Koch brother, Peter Thiel and every other dark money puppetmaster.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 10:09:24 am
Someone needs to [redact] the last Koch brother, Peter Thiel and every other dark money puppetmaster.

It's not people, man, it's process.  Why pick one master over another ?  Do you think the Koch brother's kid or Murdoch's kids will be nice guys ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 10:11:31 am
It's not people, man, it's process.  Why pick one master over another ?  Do you think the Koch brother's kid or Murdoch's kids will be nice guys ?

They get the wall too. Plenty of empty ditches to go around.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2022, 10:15:50 am
We are in a passing of eras now, so it may indeed be a time for the old 2-parties to be rocked and changed.
The problem I see...

At this point in time, the republican party is completely and utterly corrupt. It definitely needs to be destroyed. On the other hand, the Democrats are imperfect, but they still have far more integrity than the republicans.

Treating a partly flawed but semi-decent party in the same way that you treat a completely corrupt party I think sends the wrong message. You want parties to improve themselves, and insisting on complete perfection may be counter productive.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 10:19:40 am
The problem I see...

At this point in time, the republican party is completely and utterly corrupt. It definitely needs to be destroyed. On the other hand, the Democrats are imperfect, but they still have far more integrity than the republicans.

Treating a partly flawed but semi-decent party in the same way that you treat a completely corrupt party I think sends the wrong message. You want parties to improve themselves, and insisting on complete perfection may be counter productive.

Obviously, there's no comparison between an openly fascist minoritarian party and the Democrats, but the latter are still corrupt, old and out of touch and in need of a drastic overhaul.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 10:45:19 am

1. At this point in time, the republican party is completely and utterly corrupt. It definitely needs to be destroyed. On the other hand, the Democrats are imperfect, but they still have far more integrity than the republicans.

2. Treating a partly flawed but semi-decent party in the same way that you treat a completely corrupt party I think sends the wrong message. You want parties to improve themselves, and insisting on complete perfection may be counter productive.

1. Arguable but I will say the Democrats are not "imperfect" but "bad". 

2. Iterative improvements ?  Maybe.  I think that with problems this deep, a big change could happen quickly regardless.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 10:50:42 am
1. Arguable but I will say the Democrats are not "imperfect" but "bad". 

2. Iterative improvements ?  Maybe.  I think that with problems this deep, a big change could happen quickly regardless.

Getting big Weimar Republic vibes from the U.S.A. right now TBH.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 10:57:58 am
Getting big Weimar Republic vibes from the U.S.A. right now TBH.

I still can't envision the final crackdown, the post-Reichstag fire destruction of all rights, removal of independents from election boards and so on.

But if you go back to 2000 we are a good ways along that path for sure. 

Ugh.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 11:17:55 am
I still can't envision the final crackdown, the post-Reichstag fire destruction of all rights, removal of independents from election boards and so on.

But if you go back to 2000 we are a good ways along that path for sure. 

Ugh.

Really? Because I can quite easily. It doesn't have to be full on Nazi Germany, but countries slide into authoritarianism all the time, the U.S. isn't special. Its institutions are rotten, its political leadership sclerotic, its elites indifferent to anything but their own comfort. I don't think it will take a particularly hard shove to topple the edifice of it as a functional, pluralistic democracy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 12:10:22 pm
Really? Because I can quite easily. It doesn't have to be full on Nazi Germany, but countries slide into authoritarianism all the time, the U.S. isn't special. Its institutions are rotten, its political leadership sclerotic, its elites indifferent to anything but their own comfort. I don't think it will take a particularly hard shove to topple the edifice of it as a functional, pluralistic democracy.

US exceptionalism, debatable as it is, is so focused on 'Freedom' that I can't envision them restricting anything to the degree necessary to maintaining authoritarian rule.

It's not a minority of people who dislike Trump et al.  Of course it could happen but ... hard to envision how for me at least.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 12:17:03 pm
US exceptionalism, debatable as it is, is so focused on 'Freedom' that I can't envision them restricting anything to the degree necessary to maintaining authoritarian rule.

You're talking about the country with the highest rate of incarceration in the entire world here man.

Also remember the right-wing concept of freedom is "you and I can do whatever I want."

Quote
It's not a minority of people who dislike Trump et al.  Of course it could happen but ... hard to envision how for me at least.

Numbers don't matter, only power. The GOP understands that, which is why they work so hard to undermine free elections, redraw maps, appoint crooked and biased judges and obstruct the majority.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 12:59:18 pm
1. You're talking about the country with the highest rate of incarceration in the entire world here man.

2. Also remember the right-wing concept of freedom is "you and I can do whatever I want."

3. Numbers don't matter, only power. The GOP understands that, which is why they work so hard to undermine free elections, redraw maps, appoint crooked and biased judges and obstruct the majority.
1. They still can't jail everyone.
2. I know that.
3. To achieve actual fascism they have to ACTUALLY seize communications, and not in the "I'm not allowed to say the n-word on Facebook" way.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 01:17:39 pm
1. They still can't jail everyone.
2. I know that.
3. To achieve actual fascism they have to ACTUALLY seize communications, and not in the "I'm not allowed to say the n-word on Facebook" way.

As I said: "It doesn't have to be full on Nazi Germany..."

I'm seeing something more like Orban's Hungary as the U.S.'s future.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 10, 2022, 01:40:16 pm
1. Arguable but I will say the Democrats are not "imperfect" but "bad". 

2. Iterative improvements ?  Maybe.  I think that with problems this deep, a big change could happen quickly regardless.

I think the Democrats are bad, while the GOP are very, very bad.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 10, 2022, 01:54:10 pm
Really? Because I can quite easily. It doesn't have to be full on Nazi Germany, but countries slide into authoritarianism all the time, the U.S. isn't special. Its institutions are rotten, its political leadership sclerotic, its elites indifferent to anything but their own comfort. I don't think it will take a particularly hard shove to topple the edifice of it as a functional, pluralistic democracy.

I think civil war is likely if it ever goes that way.  And I think civil war is the only way it goes authoritarian.  Classic temporary emergency powers to "protect" the republic.

I can see the US becoming an illegitimate democracy, where the institutions break down.  Trump almost did it.  Then comes the civil war and sweeping emergency powers.  This is why I say destroying the SCOTUS by stacking the court is a terrible idea, it's one step closer to authoritarianism and civil war.  It's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard, and could lead to civil war.  The right wing fringe stormed the Capitol the last time they thought they got screwed over by the Democrats, and that wasn't even true.

But MH is right that the US also has a strong anti-government liberalism bent.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 02:38:50 pm
I think civil war is likely if it ever goes that way.  And I think civil war is the only way it goes authoritarian.  Classic temporary emergency powers to "protect" the republic.

I don't think it will be that dramatic. It'll simply be a matter of the GOP declaring any future election loss null and void, the USSC rubber stamping that result and then the Republicans using their fake majority to ram through all kinds of measures to criminalize dissent.

Quote
I can see the US becoming an illegitimate democracy, where the institutions break down.  Trump almost did it.  Then comes the civil war and sweeping emergency powers.  This is why I say destroying the SCOTUS by stacking the court is a terrible idea, it's one step closer to authoritarianism and civil war.  It's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard, and could lead to civil war.  The right wing fringe stormed the Capitol the last time they thought they got screwed over by the Democrats, and that wasn't even true.

Well the court is illegitimate, the deck is stacked against genuine democracy and the people most likely to instigate a violent uprising are the one's who are going to win without one.

Quote
But MH is right that the US also has a strong anti-government liberalism bent.

Is there anything about the GOP today that screams "anti-government classical liberal" to you?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 02:55:10 pm
The other thing to consider here is that the worst offenders of the GOP are very old.

Conceivably, a generational change could happen very quickly and that includes policy changes.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 03:01:41 pm
The other thing to consider here is that the worst offenders of the GOP are very old.

Conceivably, a generational change could happen very quickly and that includes policy changes.

The younger GOP generation is the worst one. JD Vance is 37. Josh Hawley is 42. Tom Cotton is 44. DeSantis is 43. Tucker Carlson is 52.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2022, 04:11:27 pm
I can see the US becoming an illegitimate democracy, where the institutions break down.  Trump almost did it.  Then comes the civil war and sweeping emergency powers.  This is why I say destroying the SCOTUS by stacking the court is a terrible idea, it's one step closer to authoritarianism and civil war.
The current non-stacked Republican-heavy supreme court killed the voting rights act, allowing gerrymandering and curtailing the right of people to vote. It has also distorted campaign financing, thus leading to the wealthy "buying" elections. THAT is what is leading to authoritarianism. Not "Maybe we should increase the number of judges to make the courts more reflective of the population at large".

Your whole argument seems to be "let the U.S. become a fascist hell-hole because standing up to republican abuses would be bad".
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 10, 2022, 04:12:13 pm
The younger GOP generation is the worst one. JD Vance is 37. Josh Hawley is 42. Tom Cotton is 44. DeSantis is 43. Tucker Carlson is 52.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

56% of older Americans lean Republican vs 50% Democrat


Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2022, 04:14:48 pm
Quote
The other thing to consider here is that the worst offenders of the GOP are very old.
The younger GOP generation is the worst one. JD Vance is 37. Josh Hawley is 42. Tom Cotton is 44. DeSantis is 43. Tucker Carlson is 52.
Yup. The republicans have gone from "We'll at least pay lip-service to fair play, even if we are going to end up playing dirty", to "Lets base our election strategy on calling brown people evil and suggesting democrats want to break into our homes and eat our children".
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 04:35:39 pm
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

56% of older Americans lean Republican vs 50% Democrat

So the Republicans have a healthy advantage among the population that actually votes.

Also "older" here means "50 and up" which is a big range and also not one that is going to go to its grave anytime soon, despite the best efforts of the party to kill its believers with COVID.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 10, 2022, 04:57:51 pm
Quote
The younger GOP generation is the worst one. JD Vance is 37. Josh Hawley is 42. Tom Cotton is 44. DeSantis is 43. Tucker Carlson is 52.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

56% of older Americans lean Republican vs 50% Democrat
I think the 2 of you are comparing 2 different things...

One is looking at the current and future crop of republican politicians (which indeed seems to be filled with crazies), the other is looking at the voters themselves.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 10, 2022, 05:10:51 pm
I think the 2 of you are comparing 2 different things...

One is looking at the current and future crop of republican politicians (which indeed seems to be filled with crazies), the other is looking at the voters themselves.

There's a symbiotic relationship there (eg the politicians are crazy because the base rewards crazy). Regardless, I don't think it's particularly relevant.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 10, 2022, 11:28:04 pm
Your whole argument seems to be "let the U.S. become a fascist hell-hole because standing up to republican abuses would be bad".

There's a difference between standing up to Republicans and stacking an entire branch of government for partisan reasons.  The GOP haven't done anything nearly that brash, with the exception of Jan 6 which failed.

Some interesting articles:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/04/05/this-is-why-the-senate-is-at-a-nuclear-brink/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/06/29/it-took-conservatives-50-years-to-get-a-reliable-majority-on-the-supreme-court-here-are-3-reasons-why/

Quote
Barring a last-minute intervention, Senate Republicans are poised to go nuclear Thursday. They say they will reinterpret the rules to empower a simple majority to cut off debate and confirm Neil Gorsuch, President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee.

Partisans disagree about who is to blame for bringing the Senate to the nuclear brink. Republicans fault Democrats for stoking the war by filibustering George W. Bush’s judicial nominees and going nuclear in 2013 over executive and lower court appointees. Democrats blame Republicans for their reflexive opposition to President Obama’s nominees, including the GOP’s unprecedented refusal to consider Obama’s Supreme Court nominee, Merrick Garland.

Arbitrating the blame game is difficult, not least because where politicians stand depends on where they sit — and they periodically change seats. So instead, let’s consider this week’s potential nuclear confrontation as the next step in the Senate’s decades-long, intensely partisan procedural warfare — a battle increasingly pitched over the judicial branch.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2022, 12:14:16 am
Mob justice is becoming more commonplace in the US.  When people lose faith in their institutions, they resort to violence.  This isn't good at all:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097803459/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-abortion-access-protest-alito

Its also not good to see leaks from the SCOTUS.  Justices need to be free from public pressure on their decisions in order to remain impartial.  But that's been thrown out a long time ago.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 11, 2022, 04:22:23 am
Mob justice is becoming more commonplace in the US.  When people lose faith in their institutions, they resort to violence.  This isn't good at all: 
My favourite recent tweet commented on how the "Fork your feelings" crowd have a lot of feelings about the blackout-rapist judge getting his lawn trampled.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 11, 2022, 09:01:41 am
Mob justice is becoming more commonplace in the US.  When people lose faith in their institutions, they resort to violence.  This isn't good at all:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097803459/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-abortion-access-protest-alito
No, its not good. But the republican party has been taking steps to encourage violence for years, with the liberals expecting to just "sit back and take it".

They have defunded government groups meant to curtail the activities of white nationalists. They have failed to deal with Stubby McBonespurs after his support of a violent coup attempt, as well as after he declared neo-nazis "fine people". They have spent more time criticising BLM protesters (who have the idea that "maybe the cops shouldn't kill so many black people") than they have the police, who are the ones actually doing the killing. And now the supreme court (which has been stacked by right-wing partisan hacks by republicans) is going to force half the U.S. politicians into being baby factories.

Given the general trends over the past decade, I think anger on the part of the political left is completely understandable and justified.

In fact, given the fact that the U.S. has been steadily slow-walking into being a right-wing authoritarian hell-scape, perhaps an open violent civil war might be the only thing to shock the system back into any sense of normalcy.
Quote
Its also not good to see leaks from the SCOTUS.  Justices need to be free from public pressure on their decisions in order to remain impartial.  But that's been thrown out a long time ago.
Umm... what type of "fantasy world" do you live in to think republican judges were impartial to begin with?

Idiots and gullible fools like yourself seem to be trying to push this utopian vision of the hard working politically neutral supreme court. But the fact is, it has been stacked by political hacks that were picked by the right-wing Federalist society. Impartiality won't be impacted because it never existed in the first place.

And why do you think they "need to be free from public pressure"? The supreme court should not operate in a vacuum... they should recognize the impact and ramifications of their rulings.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 11, 2022, 09:14:59 am
Quote
Your whole argument seems to be "let the U.S. become a fascist hell-hole because standing up to republican abuses would be bad".
There's a difference between standing up to Republicans and stacking an entire branch of government for partisan reasons.
The republicans stole control of the supreme court. The didn't increase the number of judges, but they still played dirty tricks to do so.
Quote
  The GOP haven't done anything nearly that brash
Yes they have. Blocking Omama's nomination. Removing the nuclear option, but only when it suited them. Cramming through the Stepford wife at the last minute. Looking the other way when Drunky McRapeface committed perjury.

Those are dirty tricks, and they are just as contemptable as adding judges to the supreme court.

Again, you seem to be giving the republicans a free pass on all that. "Its ok if the republicans break all the political norms. Just make sure the democrats play nice."
Quote
Some interesting articles:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/04/05/this-is-why-the-senate-is-at-a-nuclear-brink/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/06/29/it-took-conservatives-50-years-to-get-a-reliable-majority-on-the-supreme-court-here-are-3-reasons-why/
Not sure why you think those articles are particularly interesting. Just a rehash of the dirty tricks the republicans played, along with their crocodile tears and fake pearl clutching.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2022, 09:39:22 am
There's a difference between standing up to Republicans and stacking an entire branch of government for partisan reasons.  The GOP haven't done anything nearly that brash, with the exception of Jan 6 which failed.

They literally stacked the court for partisan reasons.

Mob justice is becoming more commonplace in the US.  When people lose faith in their institutions, they resort to violence.  This isn't good at all:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097803459/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-abortion-access-protest-alito

Where's mob justice? What violence? People are allowed to peacefully protest, man.

When you have a group of elites who are accountable to no one, not even the rule of law, then protest is the only avenue for the people impacted.

Quote
Its also not good to see leaks from the SCOTUS.  Justices need to be free from public pressure on their decisions in order to remain impartial.  But that's been thrown out a long time ago.

LOL imagine thinking impartiality is a feature of this court. LMAO.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2022, 09:45:43 am
Again, you seem to be giving the republicans a free pass on all that. "Its ok if the republicans break all the political norms. Just make sure the democrats play nice." Not sure why you think those articles are particularly interesting. Just a rehash of the dirty tricks the republicans played, along with their crocodile tears and fake pearl clutching.

Yeah you see that a lot with "sensible moderates." a stubborn dedication to abstract principles while the other guys don't care about anything but winning and there's no reward for being a good boy who plays by the rules.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 11, 2022, 02:42:41 pm
What are the building blocks of American intellectualism at this point ?

Are there any ? 

In the past, they have pioneered liberation ideology in terms of individual identity rights and exported those ideas

They established economic hegemony, in terms of the Chicago school ideas, in the 1980s like it or not.

And they lead in technology.

But in terms of public ideas, populism is anti-intellectual and horribly inimitable.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2022, 02:51:56 pm
What are the building blocks of American intellectualism at this point ?

Are there any ? 

In the past, they have pioneered liberation ideology in terms of individual identity rights and exported those ideas

They established economic hegemony, in terms of the Chicago school ideas, in the 1980s like it or not.

And they lead in technology.

But in terms of public ideas, populism is anti-intellectual and horribly inimitable.

Not sure I agree with that part in bold when the playbook is the same all over.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 11, 2022, 02:55:55 pm
Not sure I agree with that part in bold when the playbook is the same all over.

Similar but not 'the same'.

Trumpism could not succeed in Canada, and the form it takes is only Trump-LIKE. 

Doug Ford was never a Trump - it's anti-Canadian.

That said, they use the playbook that works in that country - maybe the same playbook but with country-specific sections.

Anyway - that's a distraction.  What is the US offering in terms of ideas ?

What did they ever offer ?

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 11, 2022, 05:14:18 pm
Mob justice is becoming more commonplace in the US.  When people lose faith in their institutions, they resort to violence.  This isn't good at all:  https://www.npr.org/2022/05/10/1097803459/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-abortion-access-protest-alito

Its also not good to see leaks from the SCOTUS.  Justices need to be free from public pressure on their decisions in order to remain impartial.  But that's been thrown out a long time ago.

When rights are removed from people, violent protest is not a surprise.

Hell, if it makes a difference, I’d rather see 48 senators meet a violent end than have to read about how women are dying from botched abortions, or abandoning newborns because they lost their rights to bodily autonomy. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2022, 05:19:15 pm
Similar but not 'the same'.

Trumpism could not succeed in Canada, and the form it takes is only Trump-LIKE. 

Doug Ford was never a Trump - it's anti-Canadian.

That said, they use the playbook that works in that country - maybe the same playbook but with country-specific sections.

Anyway - that's a distraction.  What is the US offering in terms of ideas ?

What did they ever offer ?

American exceptionalism dictates that every good idea has already been had by an American already so there's no need to come up with anything new or, heaven forbid, look at what others might be doing and borrow from them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 11, 2022, 05:20:51 pm
When rights are removed from people, violent protest is not a surprise.

Hell, if it makes a difference, I’d rather see 48 senators meet a violent end than have to read about how women are dying from botched abortions, or abandoning newborns because they lost their rights to bodily autonomy.

There hasn't even been any violence, it's just elites clutching their pearls because one of their own was minorly inconvenienced.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 11, 2022, 06:23:33 pm
But Susan Collins had people writing in chalk on her sidewalk.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2022, 07:04:55 pm
But in terms of public ideas, populism is anti-intellectual and horribly inimitable.

Is left-wing populism anti-intellectual?

I think populism is good, unless its done stupidly.  Its better than elitism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2022, 07:06:53 pm
When rights are removed from people, violent protest is not a surprise.

Hell, if it makes a difference, I’d rather see 48 senators meet a violent end than have to read about how women are dying from botched abortions, or abandoning newborns because they lost their rights to bodily autonomy.

Do you feel bad for the babies?  Or just the women who want to kill them?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2022, 07:16:27 pm
Idiots and gullible fools like yourself seem to be trying to push this utopian vision of the hard working politically neutral supreme court. But the fact is, it has been stacked by political hacks that were picked by the right-wing Federalist society. Impartiality won't be impacted because it never existed in the first place.

F.uck off.  If you want to have a discussion then let's have one.  If you want to act like a self-righteous condescending a.sshole like you have been then go straight to hell.  Your move.  But I will not be spoken to disrespectfully.  I did not in any way speak to you disrespectfully.  What gives so many of you progressives types on this board the idea that you can go around insulting me and others simply for not agreeing with some of your opinions is beyond me.  But I invite you to grow the he.ll up and act like an adult instead throwing around insults like a child.

I never said the supreme court was politically neutral.  But its supposed to be impartial and not make decisions based on public pressure, nor are leaks of decisions at all common.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 11, 2022, 07:19:29 pm
Is left-wing populism anti-intellectual?

I think populism is good, unless its done stupidly.  Its better than elitism.

It came from academia, so there is at least ostensible scholarship behind it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 11, 2022, 07:44:41 pm
https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1524517368235380736
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 11, 2022, 07:46:20 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5mMj2CJ.png)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 11, 2022, 07:48:56 pm
Do you feel bad for the babies?  Or just the women who want to kill them?

Those murdering whores, eh? 

Thanks to our resident incel for his input. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 11, 2022, 11:01:47 pm
Those murdering whores, eh? 

Thanks to our resident incel for his input.

So that's a no?

I bet I get ore sex than you old man.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 11, 2022, 11:04:19 pm
I volunteer to moderate this wager.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 12, 2022, 01:11:39 am
Do you feel bad for the babies?  Or just the women who want to kill them?
Pssss.... let me tell you a secret....

Abortion doesn't kill babies.

It might kill / remove  / terminate a FETUS. But a fetus is not a baby. When performed in the first or second trimester, the Fetus will never survive outside the woman's body. It is effectively a parasite.

Later term abortions do happen, but typically they are only done when the mother's health is at risk or the fetus is unviable.

Calling abortions "killing babies" is deceptive. A lie. A brazen attempt to use emotions to manipulate the situation.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 12, 2022, 04:56:15 am
I volunteer to moderate this wager.

Ew.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 09:21:58 am
F.uck off.  If you want to have a discussion then let's have one.  If you want to act like a self-righteous condescending a.sshole like you have been then go straight to hell.  Your move.  But I will not be spoken to disrespectfully. I did not in any way speak to you disrespectfully.  What gives so many of you progressives types on this board the idea that you can go around insulting me and others simply for not agreeing with some of your opinions is beyond me.  But I invite you to grow the he.ll up and act like an adult instead throwing around insults like a child.

You should try to practice what you preach instead of being a giant hypocrite.

Quote
I never said the supreme court was politically neutral.  But its supposed to be impartial and not make decisions based on public pressure, nor are leaks of decisions at all common.

It's never been neutral so what it's "supposed to be" is totally irrelevant.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 09:26:23 am
Do you feel bad for the babies?  Or just the women who want to kill them?

Just the women, the "babies" don't have feelings or thoughts or awareness.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 01:48:16 pm
Pssss.... let me tell you a secret....

Abortion doesn't kill babies.

It might kill / remove  / terminate a FETUS. But a fetus is not a baby. When performed in the first or second trimester, the Fetus will never survive outside the woman's body. It is effectively a parasite.

People tell themselves these things so they can sleep at night when supporting the killing of humans.  You can label it whatever you wish.  It's a human life.  It's alive.  At least own it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 01:52:58 pm
You should try to practice what you preach instead of being a giant hypocrite.

Yeah who have I ever insulted on here who hasn't insulted me first?  Show the receipts. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 01:54:27 pm
Just the women, the "babies" don't have feelings or thoughts or awareness.

Evidence?  Sego says they aren't humans in the 2nd trimester so good luck with that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 01:58:11 pm
"Black people aren't really human, so it's OK to enslave themand not feel bad about it."

"Jews aren't really humans, so it's OK to murder all of them and not feel bad about it."
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 02:27:48 pm
Yeah who have I ever insulted on here who hasn't insulted me first?  Show the receipts.

Me for one.

Evidence?  Sego says they aren't humans in the 2nd trimester so good luck with that.

Fetuses in the first trimester, where 90% of abortions take place, don't have functioning brains.

 
"Black people aren't really human, so it's OK to enslave themand not feel bad about it."

"Jews aren't really humans, so it's OK to murder all of them and not feel bad about it."

Moronic argument. You can ask those people if they're human and they will answer in the affirmative. What kinda answer will you get from this?
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fotlibrary.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fatl-spotted-dolphins%2Fspotted-Dolphin_embryo.jpg&hash=42c21d328b4ca3df0db488fb33ba652cfe997dee)

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 12, 2022, 02:29:37 pm
"Black people aren't really human, so it's OK to enslave themand not feel bad about it."

"Jews aren't really humans, so it's OK to murder all of them and not feel bad about it."

Your analogy is typical of  someone with the mental capacity of an amoeba.  If a Jew or a black person were growing in me and using me for sustenance, I would have the right to remove them.

No human being has a right to use another human being for their blood, organs or nutrients against their will. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 02:33:33 pm
People tell themselves these things so they can sleep at night when supporting the killing of humans.  You can label it whatever you wish.  It's a human life.  It's alive.  At least own it.

It's a human life insofar as it's a thing with human DNA. So what?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 12, 2022, 02:34:48 pm
Even a 5 year old can’t use the blood of their own mother without the mother’s consent.  But idiots like Graham want to give special rights to fetuses. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 03:12:21 pm
Republicans: "Schools should be places for learning the fundamentals, not political indoctrination!"

Also Republicans: DeSantis signs bill for Florida students to learn about ‘victims of communism’ (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/10/florida-ron-desantis-communism-bill-students)

lol at him using the wholly debunked "100 million victims" figure too.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 03:56:46 pm
Even a 5 year old can’t use the blood of their own mother without the mother’s consent.  But idiots like Graham want to give special rights to fetuses.

What special rights?  The right to not touch them with intent to kill?   Everyone has that right, to be free from assault.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 04:04:02 pm
 ;D
Me for one.

BAHAHAHAHA

OMG that was a good one.

Quote
Fetuses in the first trimester, where 90% of abortions take place, don't have functioning brains.

I know many people, including some on this forum, who don't have functioning brains but we don't kill them.  There's also people in a coma that may come out if it in months time that we don't kill.
 
Quote
Moronic argument. You can ask those people if they're human and they will answer in the affirmative. What kinda answer will you get from this?
(https://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fotlibrary.com%2Fwp-content%2Fgallery%2Fatl-spotted-dolphins%2Fspotted-Dolphin_embryo.jpg&hash=42c21d328b4ca3df0db488fb33ba652cfe997dee)
[/quote]

If answering questions is the test for being human then let's go ask the same question to babies 3 weeks after birth and see what they say.  Then you can kill them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 04:08:19 pm
Republicans: "Schools should be places for learning the fundamentals, not political indoctrination!"

Also Republicans: DeSantis signs bill for Florida students to learn about ‘victims of communism’ (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/10/florida-ron-desantis-communism-bill-students)

lol at him using the wholly debunked "100 million victims" figure too.

Agree.  Politicalization of schools is not good and needs to be avoided. Students can learn about communism in history classes just like slavery, and the bad stuff I assume will be taught since it comes with the territory, but it doesn't need to be moralizing.  Kids are smart enough to figure out that political repression and enslaving people is wrong.

DeSantis is such an idiot.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 04:25:18 pm
;D
BAHAHAHAHA

OMG that was a good one.

It's true. I just don't make a big cringey show of crying about it.

Quote
I know many people, including some on this forum, who don't have functioning brains but we don't kill them. There's also people in a coma that may come out if it in months time that we don't kill.

Yeah, so? People in comas don't leech of other people's bodies for their survival either. And of course braindead people are often taken off life support.

Quote
If answering questions is the test for being human then let's go ask the same question to babies 3 weeks after birth and see what they say.  Then you can kill them.

Anyone with half a brain can instinctively understand the difference between a fetus and a baby or full grown person, why can't you?

Also, given you couldn't tell the difference between the dolphin fetus picture I posted and a human fetus, I think we can say that maybe you aren't the best judge of what makes a human being.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 12, 2022, 05:04:49 pm
The state of the 2022 GOP: a conspiracy theorist, anti-abortion, anti-gay and Muslim-hating nutjob is surging in the PA senate GOP primary polls, but she's Black, so the establishment is reminding their base to be racist against her.

Quote
The "Crazy Kathy" ad, produced by a super PAC supporting Oz, features footage of Barnette talking about racism, including clips that appear to show her discussing "systemic racism" "particularly among police officers." The video suggests she supported Black Lives Matter. The footage appears to be edited and it's unclear whether she made the statements as complete thoughts or offered other context.

link (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/trump-gop-rivals-unload-kathy-barnette-rises-pa-senate-primary-rcna28593)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 12, 2022, 07:15:04 pm
Yeah, so? People in comas don't leech of other people's bodies for their survival either. And of course braindead people are often taken off life support.

Only if they have little to no chance of survival at any future point.

Quote
Anyone with half a brain can instinctively understand the difference between a fetus and a baby or full grown person, why can't you?
What's the difference?  One has a tail and a blow-hole?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 13, 2022, 09:35:21 am
Only if they have little to no chance of survival at any future point.

And you're ok with that?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 13, 2022, 10:42:53 am
Poll finds one-third of American adults say they think an effort is afoot to replace native-born Americans with new immigrants for electoral purposes
 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/poll-finds-one-third-of-adults-say-they-think-an-effort-is-afoot-to-replace-native-born-americans-with-new-immigrants-for-electoral-purposes-01652314775?reflink=mw_share_twitter)

This is the neo-Nazi "great replacement" theory that Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump, among others, have promoted extensively. When you dig into the data, you find that 50% of Republicans are in the believer camp, with people who consume right wing media like FOX and OANN more likely to buy into it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 13, 2022, 03:11:35 pm
The pro-lifers at FOX News are incensed that Biden government isn't letting the babies of migrants in government holding facilities starve to death (https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1525101020229079040).
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 03:15:33 pm
Poll finds one-third of American adults say they think an effort is afoot to replace native-born Americans with new immigrants for electoral purposes
 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/poll-finds-one-third-of-adults-say-they-think-an-effort-is-afoot-to-replace-native-born-americans-with-new-immigrants-for-electoral-purposes-01652314775?reflink=mw_share_twitter)

This is the neo-Nazi "great replacement" theory that Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump, among others, have promoted extensively. When you dig into the data, you find that 50% of Republicans are in the believer camp, with people who consume right wing media like FOX and OANN more likely to buy into it.

Well, do you believe Trudeau government efforts to vastly increase immigration numbers and reduce citizenship requirements have nothing to do with votes?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 13, 2022, 03:31:56 pm
Well, do you believe Trudeau government efforts to vastly increase immigration numbers and reduce citizenship requirements have nothing to do with votes?

(https://www.canadavisa.com/images/Canadas-immigration-levels-since-1860.png)

“Canada is the largest per capita receiver of new immigrants in the entire world.”-Stephen Harper, Sept. 8, 2015
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 03:50:57 pm
.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 03:52:18 pm
Quote from: Black Dog

“Canada is the largest per capita receiver of new immigrants in the entire world.”-Stephen Harper, Sept. 8, 2015


And then Trudeau gov raised those levels by 50% and reduced citizenship requirements.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 13, 2022, 03:56:54 pm

And then Trudeau gov raised those levels by 50% and reduced citizenship requirements.

Did the immigrants that came in when Harper was PM vote for Harper? 

Or does this conspiracy just go the one way?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 13, 2022, 04:11:55 pm
Did the immigrants that came in when Harper was PM vote for Harper? 

Good question - side question is if immigrants vote Liberal why didn't Harper stop immigration ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 13, 2022, 04:23:18 pm


And then Trudeau gov raised those levels by 50% and reduced citizenship requirements.

What these guys said:

Did the immigrants that came in when Harper was PM vote for Harper? 

Or does this conspiracy just go the one way?

Good question - side question is if immigrants vote Liberal why didn't Harper stop immigration ?

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 05:01:57 pm
Did the immigrants that came in when Harper was PM vote for Harper? 

Or does this conspiracy just go the one way?

Harper didn't raise immigration numbers and he made citizenship harder to get.  As a % of the population immigration probably went down during the Harper years.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 13, 2022, 06:38:25 pm
Harper didn't raise immigration numbers and he made citizenship harder to get.  As a % of the population immigration probably went down during the Harper years.

https://www.thewalrus-factchecking.com/post/fact-check-is-the-liberal-government-rapidly-increasing-immigration-levels-in-canada

The numbers did indeed go up during Harper's tenure.  Not uniformly of course
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 07:44:10 pm
https://www.thewalrus-factchecking.com/post/fact-check-is-the-liberal-government-rapidly-increasing-immigration-levels-in-canada

The numbers did indeed go up during Harper's tenure.  Not uniformly of course

New immigrants per population was flat during the Harper years.  260k welcomed in 2014.  405k last year, and ever-rising.  Trudeau has increased it by over 50% and it was the plan all along:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/john-mccallum-substantially-increase-immigration-labour-shortages-1.3718831
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 13, 2022, 08:34:17 pm
Read the article.  It went up and down.

More to the point, nobody said anything when it went up.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 13, 2022, 09:07:12 pm
Read the article.  It went up and down.

More to the point, nobody said anything when it went up.

The immigration rate stayed the same under Harper.  It was the same since the early 90's until Trudeau.

(https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-620-x/2019001/fig/fig_5-2-eng.png)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 14, 2022, 09:05:08 am
 How do you resolve that with what the article says?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 14, 2022, 10:42:39 am
How do you resolve that with what the article says?

What does it say?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 14, 2022, 12:57:31 pm
In 1911 our population was 7 million. Canada badly needed people. Birth rates are low but do we really need so many now?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on May 14, 2022, 02:03:14 pm
In 1911 our population was 7 million. Canada badly needed people. Birth rates are low but do we really need so many now?

Ironically a huge reason people have less kids is because life is so expensive. An extra bedroom is hundreds of thousands of dollars. Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation so both parents need to work.

We then favour immigrants who enrich the country (obviously that makes sense) but a side effect is they make life even more expensive for those already here, including first generation immigrants.

I don’t know why we don’t work on making things more affordable for families, making higher education available to everyone instead importing educated people.

The status quo seems to be a short term fix.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 14, 2022, 06:04:24 pm
What special rights?

Special rights for a fetus that a 5 year old doesn’t have to be able to use another human being’s body against their will. 

If a 5 year old can’t have their parent’s blood without their consent, why should a fetus?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 14, 2022, 06:15:12 pm

I don’t know why we don’t work on making things more affordable for families, making higher education available to everyone instead importing educated people.

The status quo seems to be a short term fix.

The parties in power believe the trickle down theory.

They're terrified of constraining growth, wealth, power

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 14, 2022, 07:43:28 pm
Some kid shot up a supermarket in Buffalo today after posting a white supremacist manifesto online about the “great replacement” so great job Tucker, great job GOP.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 14, 2022, 09:08:21 pm
Special rights for a fetus that a 5 year old doesn’t have to be able to use another human being’s body against their will. 

If a 5 year old can’t have their parent’s blood without their consent, why should a fetus?

Ok just remove with without assaulting it then. Good luck with that!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 14, 2022, 09:16:02 pm
Ok just remove with without assaulting it then. Good luck with that!

Doest matter how it’s removed.  It has no right to do that. 

Just like a 5 year old can be left to die a painful death, unless there is consent. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 15, 2022, 12:41:55 am
Doest matter how it’s removed.  It has no right to do that. 

Just like a 5 year old can be left to die a painful death, unless there is consent.

There's a big difference between leaving someone to die (doing absolutely nothing) and willfully assaulting someone with intent to kill.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 15, 2022, 09:00:40 am
There's a big difference between leaving someone to die (doing absolutely nothing) and willfully assaulting someone with intent to kill.

Yeah, one is self defence. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 15, 2022, 05:00:15 pm
Ironically a huge reason people have less kids is because life is so expensive. An extra bedroom is hundreds of thousands of dollars. Salaries haven’t kept up with inflation so both parents need to work.

We then favour immigrants who enrich the country (obviously that makes sense) but a side effect is they make life even more expensive for those already here, including first generation immigrants.

I don’t know why we don’t work on making things more affordable for families, making higher education available to everyone instead importing educated people.

The status quo seems to be a short term fix.

Agree with most of that. As far as higher education goes, help should be given in the fields your society actually needs. Competent trades are in very short supply these days, arts graduates aren't.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 15, 2022, 07:12:55 pm
Agree with most of that. As far as higher education goes, help should be given in the fields your society actually needs. Competent trades are in very short supply these days, arts graduates aren't.

The idea that higher ed should simply be a path to wage labour is extremely depressing.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 15, 2022, 07:38:01 pm
The idea that higher ed should simply be a path to wage labour is extremely depressing.

Its also depressing to spend 4 years getting a history or philosophy degree and be almost as unemployable as when you started.

IMO for 90% of the population who aren't rich spending 4 years on a degree of little to no labour value is largely a waste of money and time that could have been almost equally served through 20 bucks in late fees at the local library.  Society can pay for libraries but not waste of time degrees.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 15, 2022, 08:21:14 pm
A liberal arts education was never meant to teach a trade. But it prepares you to pursue advanced degrees or employment when you're done. That was always the point, and it's only useless to those who don't bother to learn anything.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 15, 2022, 08:37:35 pm
A liberal arts education was never meant to teach a trade. But it prepares you to pursue advanced degrees or employment when you're done. That was always the point, and it's only useless to those who don't bother to learn anything.

Two of the better program managers I have worked with in IT had general arts degrees.  I don't understand who these people are who think a mechanical engineering degree is "smarter" than a history degree.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on May 15, 2022, 09:16:14 pm
Its also depressing to spend 4 years getting a history or philosophy degree and be almost as unemployable as when you started.

This is very much not true. At my old job (in finance) when they were hiring for back office work they candidates had to have a degree. Most were in the arts, but once in the field they had the opportunity to take securities courses and start their lucrative careers which would not have been available to them with a high school diploma. The EA in that office earned six figures... also English lit major.

In my current job (in accounting) we have a few who work in corporate secretarial positions, again the requirement is a university degree. There are several of them with arts degrees and they all make close to six figures as well.

It may not be a vocational degree like finance or marketing but in a corporate setting, it opens more doors than a high school diploma.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on May 15, 2022, 09:18:52 pm
Agree with most of that. As far as higher education goes, help should be given in the fields your society actually needs. Competent trades are in very short supply these days, arts graduates aren't.

I think we're doing that aren't we?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 15, 2022, 10:26:37 pm
Two of the better program managers I have worked with in IT had general arts degrees.  I don't understand who these people are who think a mechanical engineering degree is "smarter" than a history degree.

Mechanical engineering degree > history degree.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 15, 2022, 11:29:50 pm
I think we're doing that aren't we?

I would hope so, we should only be subsidizing university degrees that are in demand by industry or needed by our society like doctors, nurses etc. While they may be worthwhile, anything else is a hobby as far as the tax payer is concerned.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 15, 2022, 11:33:36 pm
Two of the better program managers I have worked with in IT had general arts degrees.  I don't understand who these people are who think a mechanical engineering degree is "smarter" than a history degree.

It isn't a question of smarter but what is more useful and likely to result in a contributing tax payer.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 16, 2022, 12:03:43 am
I would hope so, we should only be subsidizing university degrees that are in demand by industry or needed by our society like doctors, nurses etc. While they may be worthwhile, anything else is a hobby as far as the tax payer is concerned.

We don’t need teachers?   Scientists?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on May 16, 2022, 12:06:07 am
It isn't a question of smarter but what is more useful and likely to result in a contributing tax payer.

I don't really understand this actually because many professional designations aren't automatically recognized by their Canadian counterparts. So you could be a mechanical engineer but you might very well end up operating a Booster Juice once you get to Canada.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 16, 2022, 05:45:09 am
Mechanical engineering degree > history degree.

Really tempting to dumb tag this.

With a history degree, you are required to analyze a complicated situation with a large number of factors and come up with your own assessment, then articulate it with support.

Mechanical engineering gives you templates to solve various problems that are specific to the manufacturing industry, and so much so that these can't be applied to other problems.

So much of what people are talking about, in this topic, is actually JOB TRAINING which you get from community college or a trade school.  IN both of the cases above, the person would have to get additional training.  But the history degree, if mastered, would provide better education for a career.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 16, 2022, 05:46:24 am
It isn't a question of smarter but what is more useful and likely to result in a contributing tax payer.

Partly, in that one of the benefits of an educated population is well employed graduates.  But that is not the only benefit or we would just do job training.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 16, 2022, 05:59:06 am
I would hope so, we should only be subsidizing university degrees that are in demand by industry or needed by our society like doctors, nurses etc. While they may be worthwhile, anything else is a hobby as far as the tax payer is concerned.

If this were the case then mechanical engineering would be out of the picture. 

While I agree that universities should care about the needs of the marketplace, I think that the overemphasis on such comes from the declining middle class and THAT is not a problem for universities to solve.   ( And we do have 'trade schools' that cost a lot of money, receive government support and dump students out on to the marketplace that doesn't need them too. )

What they do care about is themselves, as a viable institution.  They care about making money, and getting high paying foreign students.  They care about new buildings, and prestige, and staying away from controversy.  Some of these things make sense but some don't.

What they SHOULD care about is education and making a smarter populace.   Canada is 10% ahead of the states in terms of post secondary attendance but it goes up to 12% when you go to the younger demographic.  In a complicated post-industrial world, this is a very good thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 16, 2022, 06:06:41 am
And an increasing disparity in terms of earning power might be looked at differently.

I graduated in IT where there was a high "demand" for my services.  This was the case until the government changed the rules of the game to allow offshore to work in Canada and my earning potential dropped by 50% overnight.

The rules of supply and demand are not fixed in nature.  If we really want to create a middle class, we need to look at where the profits are going and what they are paying their workers.   The assumption that a business that makes a huge markup would leave Canada if they were forced to make less money makes no sense, if you realize that all of the multinationals operate profitably in socialist Scandanavia.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 16, 2022, 09:50:04 am
We don’t need teachers?   Scientists?

We have an over trillion dollar federal debt and when you factor in provincial debt, our debt to GDP is well over 100%. All  I am saying is we can’t afford to subsidize everything equally and have to be selective in what we support. I am not saying other degrees have no value. We also have a real shortage of many trades and other skills. Not everything is about university.

Subsidies have always been selective and intended to have a targeted outcome. Governments are subsidizing EV’s because they want more of them on the roads. Why not subsidize all cars, they all do the same thing, move people and goods.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 16, 2022, 10:06:16 am
Wait do people think the trades aren't already subsidized too?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 16, 2022, 10:15:01 am
Its also depressing to spend 4 years getting a history or philosophy degree and be almost as unemployable as when you started.

IMO for 90% of the population who aren't rich spending 4 years on a degree of little to no labour value is largely a waste of money and time that could have been almost equally served through 20 bucks in late fees at the local library.  Society can pay for libraries but not waste of time degrees.

It's weird people think that there are tons of people getting "waste of time" arts degrees when there are more business, management and public administration grads than the arts and humanities combined.

The top fields for grads are:

-Business, management and public administration
-Health and related fields
-Social and behavioural sciences and law
-Architecture, engineering and related technologies
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on May 16, 2022, 10:27:08 am
With a history degree, you are required to analyze a complicated situation with a large number of factors and come up with your own assessment, then articulate it with support.

Mechanical engineering gives you templates to solve various problems that are specific to the manufacturing industry, and so much so that these can't be applied to other problems.
I think you are mischaracterizing what's involved in getting a degree...

Universities tend to require at least SOME diversity in their education, so even someone majoring in sciences will probably have at least some exposure to non-science courses. (The university I went to for computer science also required me to take 2 biology, 2 physics, 2 chemistry, and multiple social science courses, which in my case involved history, economics, and english.)

Secondly, even in courses that do focus on science, they often involve more than just "how to I solve this problem?" Students have to learn to communicate (through lab reports/presentations of their work), i.e. the type of thing you said history prepares you for.

Lastly, even when dealing with the technical aspects of science/engineering degrees... they are more than just narrowly focused "how do I fix this problem?" You still have to know how to analyze situations, perform risk assessments, etc. Things that are applicable outside of science courses. Any math courses you take will help in understanding things like economics. Any chemistry courses you take will help you understand issues with the environment and/or biology.
Quote
So much of what people are talking about, in this topic, is actually JOB TRAINING which you get from community college or a trade school.  IN both of the cases above, the person would have to get additional training.  But the history degree, if mastered, would provide better education for a career.
Actually, a more accurate claim is that a history COULD provide a better education for a career.

But, you have to figure... what type of career are you talking about? There are very few history-specific jobs out there. So where else could you work? Anything having to do with manufacturing (e.g. car companies,  resource extraction, etc.) MIGHT like your ability to analyze/communicate, but they will also like the science/engineering guy's ability to better understand the technical side of things. Financial services companies (e.g. banks) might prefer someone with a business or economics degree.

The fact that many social science majors get jobs outside their field of study may have less to do with "My degree helped teach me skills that helped me in my new job" and more to do with "The employer just wanted SOME degree, and this is what I had".
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on May 16, 2022, 10:59:38 am
Ever wonder why the employer wants SOME degree?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 16, 2022, 11:29:25 am
@segnosaur good points

I will maintain that the engineering degrees I am familiar with have a narrower focus.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 16, 2022, 02:13:51 pm
New immigrants per population was flat during the Harper years.  260k welcomed in 2014.  405k last year, and ever-rising.  Trudeau has increased it by over 50% and it was the plan all along:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/john-mccallum-substantially-increase-immigration-labour-shortages-1.3718831

What does any of that have to do with the Great Replacement Theory?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 16, 2022, 02:16:38 pm
What does any of that have to do with the Great Replacement Theory?

Conspiratard Graham has concerns with Canada’s whiteness being mixed with some different skin pigmentations, maybe?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 16, 2022, 02:23:53 pm
Conspiratard Graham has concerns with Canada’s whiteness being mixed with some different skin pigmentations, maybe?

The GOP/Tucker crowd are doing the same motte-and-bailey thing: conflating observations about demographic changes and their potential ramifications for elections with the theory that liberal Democrat Jews are intentionally importing brown people to replace the white population.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 16, 2022, 04:18:24 pm
Do you think they actually believe this stuff?

"I want the Republican Party to take back the party to where you were when you cared about a woman's right to choose, you cared about the environment. Here I am, Nancy Pelosi, saying this country needs a strong Republican Party. Not a cult."-Nancy Pelosi (https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1523812812434329602?s=20&t=IJjJtFJ9PHB4ROFBFirN8A)

Republicans haven't cared about that stuff for as long as I've been alive, there's no reason to think they ever will. There's no going back, the GOP needs to be destroyed, root and branch.

Here  (https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1526159124840558592?s=20&t=8yCEipxCIz9ca1GKMvRJRw)for contrast is Liz Cheney, an actual Republican.

Quote
The House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy, and anti-semitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. GOP leaders must renounce and reject these views and those who hold them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 16, 2022, 10:09:42 pm
Wait do people think the trades aren't already subsidized too?

All education is subsidized.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 12:32:59 am
Ever wonder why the employer wants SOME degree?

Because its better than no degree and shows you aren't an idiot.  A degree is fine, but its also a pretty good idea to spent 4+ years of your life training in knowledge/skills that will be directly used in the workplace so you can advance your career, unless you want to spend another 2-4 years of your life in school.  If you have a personal interest in philosophy you can read Kant for free at the local library.  I know people who did Masters degrees in pretty vocationally useless subjects.  That is mind boggling to me.

I think if you have the money and time to take an Arts degree and then afterwards do schooling that will be better to advance your career that's great and yes would recommend it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 12:34:59 am
Here  (https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1526159124840558592?s=20&t=8yCEipxCIz9ca1GKMvRJRw)for contrast is Liz Cheney, an actual Republican.

You know a party sucks when the voice of reason is a friggin Cheney.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 17, 2022, 10:47:31 am
You know a party sucks when the voice of reason is a friggin Cheney.

And that Cheney is also a fringe figure in the party.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 17, 2022, 12:38:53 pm
Interesting article here  (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/far-right-idaho_n_628277e2e4b0c84db7282bd6?29e)on the far-right takeover of Idaho. I fully expect to see this strategy get copied on this side of the border.

This is their playbook and Dems/liberals/the left would do well to take note and consider similar tactics to defeat them.

Quote
Authored by a former California state senator and gun rights fundamentalist named H.L. Richardson, “Confrontational Politics” is essentially a how-to guide for a Christian nationalist insurgency in the United States. “There can be no compromises with the Left,” Richardson writes. “We are ideologically at opposite ends of the spectrum with no arbitration possible. Either they win or we do. They will run the government or we will. That’s the only choice open to either of us. They know it — shouldn’t we?”

Richardson prescribes an aggressive style of politics that’s always, always on the offensive, that is constantly attacking its opponents, provoking them, screaming over them, and wearing them down. Never apologize. Exploit “hot button issues” that inspire “deep emotion” and “moral righteousness” to gain followers.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 17, 2022, 03:32:38 pm
The Supreme Court just made it much easier to bribe a member of Congress (https://www.vox.com/2022/5/16/23074957/supreme-court-ted-cruz-fec-bribery-campaign-finance-first-amendment-john-roberts-elena-kagan)

The Supreme Court’s conservative majority has been at war with campaign finance laws for more than a dozen years, stretching at least as far back as its decision in Citizens United v. FEC (2010). On Monday, the Court’s six Republican appointees escalated this war.

The Court’s decision in FEC v. Ted Cruz for Senate is a boon to wealthy candidates. It strikes down an anti-bribery law that limited the amount of money candidates could raise after an election in order to repay loans they made to their own campaign.

Federal law permits candidates to loan money to their campaigns. In 2001, however, Congress prohibited campaigns from repaying more than $250,000 of these loans using funds raised after the election. They can repay as much as they want from campaign donations received before the election (although a federal regulation required them to do so “within 20 days of the election”).

The idea is that, if already-elected officials can solicit donations to repay what is effectively their own personal debt, lobbyists and others seeking to influence lawmakers can put money directly into the elected official’s pocket — and campaign donations that personally enrich a lawmaker are particularly likely to lead to corrupt bargains. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) manufactured a case to try to overturn that $250,000 limit, and now, the Court has sided with him.

Indeed, now that this limit on loan repayments has been struck down, lawmakers with sufficiently creative accountants may be able to use such loans to give themselves a steady income stream from campaign donors.[/quote]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 04:49:16 pm
The US is a stupid country.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 04:50:47 pm
Interesting article here  (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/far-right-idaho_n_628277e2e4b0c84db7282bd6?29e)on the far-right takeover of Idaho. I fully expect to see this strategy get copied on this side of the border.

This is their playbook and Dems/liberals/the left would do well to take note and consider similar tactics to defeat them.

Isn't what the GOP is already doing?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 04:51:58 pm
And that Cheney is also a fringe figure in the party.

I like that she's an outcast in her party for not being far-right instead of being an outcast for being the spawn of Dick Cheney.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 17, 2022, 05:25:53 pm
Isn't what the GOP is already doing?

Yeah, the point is you're not going to beat these guys playing nice.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 17, 2022, 05:28:19 pm
I like that she's an outcast in her party for not being far-right instead of being an outcast for being the spawn of Dick Cheney.

She's very far right (check out her voting record (https://heritageaction.com/scorecard/members/C001109/117)) but she's not an outright fascist/cult member so she might as well be a Communist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 17, 2022, 11:01:13 pm
She's very far right (check out her voting record (https://heritageaction.com/scorecard/members/C001109/117)) but she's not an outright fascist/cult member so she might as well be a Communist.

Oh wait I forgot there's a giant power struggle between the establishment Republicans and the Trump Nazis and she's the establishment's new leader.  This party just needs to die.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 18, 2022, 05:34:56 am
Oh wait I forgot there's a giant power struggle between the establishment Republicans and the Trump Nazis and she's the establishment's new leader.  This party just needs to die.

They can't feel the impact of their extreme policies if they're not reported on by FOX.

Fox's online report didn't mention the Buffalo shooter's racist comments, which parallel comments by Tucker Carlson.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 09:59:13 am
Oh wait I forgot there's a giant power struggle between the establishment Republicans and the Trump Nazis and she's the establishment's new leader.

I don't think there's much of a struggle. The establishment has already lost.

Quote
This party just needs to die.

At last, something we agree on.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 11:19:39 am
They can't feel the impact of their extreme policies if they're not reported on by FOX.

Fox's online report didn't mention the Buffalo shooter's racist comments, which parallel comments by Tucker Carlson.

I thunk blaming Tucker is ridiculous.  It's like blaming people who criticized US foreign policy in the middle east for 9/11.  There's a big difference between a political opinion and murdering innocent people to further a political opinion.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 18, 2022, 11:31:45 am
I thunk blaming Tucker is ridiculous.  It's like blaming people who criticized US foreign policy in the middle east for 9/11.  There's a big difference between a political opinion and murdering innocent people to further a political opinion.

You can't blame him nor can you excuse him for making it worse.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 11:42:19 am
I thunk blaming Tucker is ridiculous.  It's like blaming people who criticized US foreign policy in the middle east for 9/11. 

Critics of US foreign policy never featured nightly on the most watched cable news program on the planet and didn't take their views from reading bin Laden and other jihadi writings on the subject the way Tucker pulls from Stormfront and 8Chan.

Also important: the people who were critical of US foreign policy and its role in destroying democracy, fostering dictatorships and potential blowback had valid points. The people claiming there's a Jewish conspiracy to destroy the white race through interbreeding with brown people do not.

Quote
There's a big difference between a political opinion and murdering innocent people to further a political opinion.

This is totally fatuous as it requires ignoring the actual substance of the "political opinion" in question.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 11:53:08 am
You can't blame him nor can you excuse him for making it worse.

You can absolutely blame him.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 18, 2022, 01:04:28 pm
You can absolutely blame him.

Right.  But he is not THE cause of this.  He's a willful participant
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 01:10:37 pm
Right.  But he is not THE cause of this.  He's a willful participant

He's A cause.

This is an actual Tucker Carlson monologue:

Quote

You've got to ask yourself, as you watch the historic tragedy that is Joe Biden's immigration policy, what's the point of this?

Nothing about it is an accident, obviously. It's intentional. Joe Biden did it on purpose, but why? Why would a president do this to his own country? No sane first-world nation opens its borders to the world.

Promising the poorest people on the planet that they can have endless free taxpayer funded services if they show up and break your laws? That's not just stupid, it's suicidal.

For generations, middle-class Americans have had access to the best healthcare in the world, but not anymore. That's over for good. Our system cannot handle this many destitute newcomers, period. Imagine what hospitals are going to look like a year from now. How about schools?

What Joe Biden is doing now will change this country forever. So again, why is he doing it? There's only one plausible answer. You're not allowed to say it out loud, CNN will attack you if you do. The social media companies will shut you down. The Southern Poverty Law Center will call you dangerous, you could lose your bank account. The left has become completely unhinged and hysterical and that's how you know it's true. They only censor the true things.

An unrelenting stream of immigration. But why? Well, Joe Biden just said it, to change the racial mix of the country. That's the reason, to reduce the political power of people whose ancestors lived here, and dramatically increase the proportion of Americans newly-arrived from the third world. And then Biden went further, he said that non-white DNA is the quote, "the source of our strength." Imagine saying that. This is the language of eugenics, it's horrifying. But there's a reason Biden said it.

In political terms, this policy is called "the great replacement," the replacement of legacy Americans with more obedient people from far-away countries. They brag about it all the time, but if you dare to say it's happening they will scream at you with maximum hysteria.

If you constantly tell people that foreigners are coming to try and destroy your country, your way of life, your race, you should expect that they will act. This is stochastic terrorism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 01:39:11 pm
You can't blame him nor can you excuse him for making it worse.

So if he’s making something worse, shouldn’t he be held accountable for that (blamed)?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 02:31:48 pm
New GOP candidate for PA governor is another Normal Guy (https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/a-pennsylvania-lawmaker-and-the-resurgence-of-christian-nationalism)

Quote
Doug Mastriano, a Republican state senator from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and parts of neighboring counties, was a little-known figure in state politics before the coronavirus pandemic. But, in the past year, he has led rallies against mask mandates and other public-health protocols, which he has characterized as “the governor’s autocratic control over our lives.” He has become a leader of the Stop the Steal campaign, and claims that he spoke to Donald Trump at least fifteen times between the 2020 election and the insurrection at the Capitol, on January 6th. He urged his followers to attend the rally at the Capitol that led to the riots, saying, “I’m really praying that God will pour His Spirit upon Washington, D.C., like we’ve never seen before.” Throughout this time, he has cast the fight against both lockdowns and Trump’s electoral loss as a religious battle against the forces of evil.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 02:45:44 pm
Critics of US foreign policy never featured nightly on the most watched cable news program on the planet and didn't take their views from reading bin Laden and other jihadi writings on the subject the way Tucker pulls from Stormfront and 8Chan.

Also important: the people who were critical of US foreign policy and its role in destroying democracy, fostering dictatorships and potential blowback had valid points. The people claiming there's a Jewish conspiracy to destroy the white race through interbreeding with brown people do not.

If someone claims "brown people are replacing white people" they have a valid point.  If someone claims "there's a Jewish conspiracy to replace white people with brown people" they don't have a valid point because there's no evidence and its totally ridiculous logically.  If someone claims "Democrats want more POC in the US because it gives them more votes" this is not an unreasonable thesis, but the evidence is hard to come by to prove the thesis.  Which one Tucker peddles I have no idea since i don't watch his show.

edit: ok i read the monologue you posted, it's the last one apparently.

Quote
You can absolutely blame him.

No you can't.  He's responsible for his opinions only.  If he advocates violence, then he's at fault yes.  Go sue him in a court of law for being responsible for the Buffalo attacks, he will get off scot free because he had absolutely nothing to do with them in any way whatsoever.

If a pro-choice advocate goes and murders a conservative SCOTUS justice we can't go blame Don Lemon for it because he's "whipping up anger" on CNN every night because of the Roe v Wade repeal.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 02:58:25 pm
If someone claims "brown people are replacing white people" they have a valid point.  If someone claims "there's a Jewish conspiracy to replace white people with brown people" they don't have a valid point because there's no evidence and its totally ridiculous logically.  If someone claims "Democrats want more POC in the US because it gives them more votes" this is not an unreasonable thesis, but the evidence is hard to come by to prove the thesis.  Which one Tucker peddles I have no idea since i don't watch his show.

So you don't know what Tucker has to say and where he falls on this, but you're still nonetheless confident that he cannot be blamed. OK then.

If it helps, I posted a transcription of a Tucker monologue just up thread in which he talks about Biden trying to "change the racial mix of the country" with "non-white" DNA from the third world. It's straight up Nazi stuff.

Quote
No you can't. He's responsible for his opinions only.  If he advocates violence, then he's at fault yes. 

This is retarded. No one actually believes demagogues like that are just sharing their opinions and not expecting any kind of action, or that you can suggest violence without explicitly calling for it.

Mobster: "Nice place you got here, shame if it burned down."
Nipples: "He's obviously concerned with the state of the sprinkler system."

Quote
Go sue him in a court of law for being responsible for the Buffalo attacks, he will get off scot free because he had absolutely nothing to do with them in any way whatsoever.

Like that proves jack sh*t.

Quote
If a pro-choice advocate goes and murders a conservative SCOTUS justice we can't go blame Don Lemon for it because he's "whipping up anger" on CNN every night because of the Roe v Wade repeal.

It depends entirely on the content of the message. But given your admitted ignorance of the content of Carlson's message, I can see why you don't want to address that side.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 03:11:48 pm
This is retarded. No one actually believes demagogues like that are just sharing their opinions and not expecting any kind of action, or that you can suggest violence without explicitly calling for it.

So your argument is that Tucker Carlson is implicitly advocating violence?   That's as nutty as the theory that Jews are behind a replacement.

Quote
Mobster: "Nice place you got here, shame if it burned down."
Nipples: "He's obviously concerned with the state of the sprinkler system."

That's not at all comparable lol.

Quote
Like that proves jack sh*t.

It proves he's not legally liable in any way.

Quote
It depends entirely on the content of the message. But given your admitted ignorance of the content of Carlson's message, I can see why you don't want to address that side.

I did see his monologue you posted.  While I do know that some racist people are happy for the white population to decrease (ie: see below, if you also want to see some Nazi sh*t), whether the Democrats or Joe Biden want that I don't believe is supported by evidence.  So yeah Tucker is peddling some murky race-baiting stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvd7_5yG_Co
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 18, 2022, 03:16:25 pm
1. So your argument is that Tucker Carlson is implicitly advocating violence?   That's as nutty as the theory that Jews are behind a replacement.

2. It proves he's not legally liable in any way.

 
1. Not at all - the Nazis vilified the Jews long before violence started - Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Jew Suss were the tools back then.
2. Of course he isn't.  FOX has lawyers of course...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 03:42:14 pm
Quote
If someone claims "brown people are replacing white people" they have a valid point.

What valid point are they making?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 04:01:15 pm
So your argument is that Tucker Carlson is implicitly advocating violence?   That's as nutty as the theory that Jews are behind a replacement.

I think violence is a predictable consequence of his rhetoric, which is, again, directly lifted from Nazis who aren't so shy about using eliminationist language.

Quote
That's not at all comparable lol.

It's not a comparison, it's a comment/joke about your naïve willingness to accept what people say at face value and not see the subtext.

Quote
It proves he's not legally liable in any way.

Who gives a ****? We're not talking about legal liability but moral culpability.

Quote
I did see his monologue you posted.  While I do know that some racist people are happy for the white population to decrease (ie: see below, if you also want to see some Nazi sh*t), whether the Democrats or Joe Biden want that I don't believe is supported by evidence.  So yeah Tucker is peddling some murky race-baiting stuff.

People jokingly cheering a comedy monologue is Nazi sh*t? Lol nice bothsidesing attempt. 

I would really like to know what compelled you to leap to Tucker's defense without actually knowing anything about what he's been saying.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 04:12:41 pm
What valid point are they making?

"Whites as a share of the population are declining" is a true statement.

Everything else that follows that is probably gonna be bunk.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 04:15:16 pm
"Whites as a share of the population are declining" is a true statement.

Everything else that follows that is probably gonna be bunk.

Yes, as a factual statement, it’s valid.   And yes, I agree with your 2nd part too.

However, is that the actual point of why they’re saying that?   Of course not.  I’d like to hear from Graham what valid point he thinks they’re making…
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 04:27:17 pm
Yes, as a factual statement, it’s valid.   And yes, I agree with your 2nd part too.

However, is that the actual point of why they’re saying that?   Of course not.  I’d like to hear from Graham what valid point he thinks they’re making…

Yeah I forgot the part where he said "brown people are replacing white people" is a valid point, even though it's absolute dogshit since that implies a direct substitution instead of two populations going in different directions. Like if I have two apples and two oranges and I add two more apples, I'm not "replacing" the oranges.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 04:50:01 pm
What valid point are they making?

The factual demographic statistic that the population of white people is shrinking and the population of POC is increasing.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 04:57:30 pm
The factual demographic statistic that the population of white people is shrinking and the population of POC is increasing.

You really think that’s the entirety of their point?  They are only pointing out a demographic fact, and not making any value judgements?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 04:58:44 pm
The factual demographic statistic that the population of white people is shrinking and the population of POC is increasing.

That's not what you said though.

You said said "brown people are replacing white people" would be a valid point which isn't the same thing.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 05:07:36 pm
You really think that’s the entirety of their point?  They are only pointing out a demographic fact, and not making any value judgements?

I think it's possible to talk about demographic trends and their potential electoral implications without making any sort of value judgements, but again, that's not the problem here and not related to the stuff Tucker and his Nazi pals are spouting.

Once again our resident moderate centrist is arguing about abstract principles when the devil is of course in the details.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 05:12:32 pm
Quote from: Black Dog link
People jokingly cheering a comedy monologue is Nazi sh*t? Lol nice bothsidesing attempt. 

Racism is hilarious.

Also, you need to get out of Alberta more often.  There's just as many racists among POC as among white people.  Not to mention the white people who hate their own skin color.

I actually feel pretty bad for black people (me) because according to all the non- white friends I have every ethnic group seems to contain dislike for black people the most of all races.

Anyways, I hate all of this nonsense   America and Canada are not nation-states founded on ethnicity, they are multicultural by nature.  What should worry us more is countries like France and Italy etc where their nation-states are founded on ethnic identity.  There's lots of far-right sentiment in Europe now.  Canada has mostly accepted multiculturalism and the US will at least accept a white minority eventually, besides the Nazi fringe who will keep killing people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 18, 2022, 05:21:23 pm
Racism is hilarious.

It is when it's aimed at white people like you, yes.

Quote
Anyways, I hate all of this nonsense   America and Canada are not nation-states founded on ethnicity, they are multicultural by nature.  What should worry us more is countries like France and Italy etc where their nation-states are founded on ethnic identity.  There's lots of far-right sentiment in Europe now.  Canada has mostly accepted multiculturalism and the US will at least accept a white minority eventually, besides the Nazi fringe who will keep killing people.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Read a history book, I beg you.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 05:28:44 pm

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Read a history book, I beg you.

1800s Canada was very multicultural….  Voting was allowed by all the important ethnic groups….   English whites…. Scottish whites…. French whites…. 

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 08:01:12 pm
1800s Canada was very multicultural….  Voting was allowed by all the important ethnic groups….   English whites…. Scottish whites…. French whites….

These are different cultures.  There's no "Canadian culture" that rules Canada, or which Canada was founded upon.  Its a nation of nations.  You can't say that about the vast majority of other countries in Europe or Asia.  If you think Canada is a "white country" then congrats you're on the side of the white nationalists.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 18, 2022, 08:45:14 pm
These are different cultures.  There's no "Canadian culture" that rules Canada, or which Canada was founded upon.  Its a nation of nations.  You can't say that about the vast majority of other countries in Europe or Asia.  If you think Canada is a "white country" then congrats you're on the side of the white nationalists.

Until 1960, indigenous people had to give up their Indian status if they wanted to vote.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 09:21:21 pm
These are different cultures.  There's no "Canadian culture" that rules Canada, or which Canada was founded upon.  Its a nation of nations.  You can't say that about the vast majority of other countries in Europe or Asia.  If you think Canada is a "white country" then congrats you're on the side of the white nationalists.

Why should I be concerned that Canada is becoming less white?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 09:56:00 pm
Why should I be concerned that Canada is becoming less white?

Uhh I never said you should.  In fact I said the opposite.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 09:59:50 pm
Until 1960, indigenous people had to give up their Indian status if they wanted to vote.

I didn't say Canada was never racist.

Again, if your argument is that Canada was founded as a white nationalist nation-state you're just giving ammo to the white nationalists in Canada.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 11:01:12 pm
I didn't say Canada was never racist.

Again, if your argument is that Canada was founded as a white nationalist nation-state you're just giving ammo to the white nationalists in Canada.

You make no sense.  You’re all over the map.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 19, 2022, 09:49:35 am
These are different cultures.  There's no "Canadian culture" that rules Canada, or which Canada was founded upon.  Its a nation of nations.  You can't say that about the vast majority of other countries in Europe or Asia.

Multiculturalism in Canada is a relatively new phenomenon. For most of this place's history, the ruling class worked very hard to keep non-white cultures out.

That's not to say non-white cultures didn't play a role in building this country, but that was often in spite of efforts to keep them down.

Quote
If you think Canada is a "white country" then congrats you're on the side of the white nationalists.

The difference between the view that Canada was founded as white settler state and the white nationalist view is whether or not that was a good thing and something to return to.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 19, 2022, 11:47:31 am
Multiculturalism in Canada is a relatively new phenomenon. For most of this place's history, the ruling class worked very hard to keep non-white cultures out.

Well multiculturalism has always existed in Canada, but yes for white people originally.  The anglos and french for instance are 2 different cultures.

What i'm saying is there's no single cultural/ethnic group to claim "rightful dominance" over Canada, or at least the claim is weaker than many other countries.  This is a good thing based on our demographic changes, it means we're more willing to accept immigrants.  In ie: Italy or Japan there's a single distinct ethnicity based on culture, language, and possibly race (Italians look different than other white people, even).  So in Italy they're going to have a lot more problems than Canada in dealing with these demographic changes where people of Italian ethnicity are reducing in numbers and non-Italians increasing.  Quebec would be the exception, but Quebec nationalism seems mostly based on language, with some racial and religious elements.

The US also has the idea that no matter where you come from, you can be American (though some of the Nazis disagree).  But I don't know if in ie: Italy many will truly accept ie: a black Prime Minister as "a real Italian".
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 19, 2022, 12:04:11 pm
There IS something to this though.  The Americans hated the French.  Also didn't like Indians much.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 19, 2022, 12:18:44 pm
Well multiculturalism has always existed in Canada, but yes for white people originally.  The anglos and french for instance are 2 different cultures.

Both white tho

Quote
What i'm saying is there's no single cultural/ethnic group to claim "rightful dominance" over Canada, or at least the claim is weaker than many other countries.  This is a good thing based on our demographic changes, it means we're more willing to accept immigrants.  In ie: Italy or Japan there's a single distinct ethnicity based on culture, language, and possibly race (Italians look different than other white people, even).  So in Italy they're going to have a lot more problems than Canada in dealing with these demographic changes where people of Italian ethnicity are reducing in numbers and non-Italians increasing.  Quebec would be the exception, but Quebec nationalism seems mostly based on language, with some racial and religious elements.

The US also has the idea that no matter where you come from, you can be American (though some of the Nazis disagree).  But I don't know if in ie: Italy many will truly accept ie: a black Prime Minister as "a real Italian".

That's fair enough, but I do think you understate the extent to which the concept of a rightful owner if you will still exists. I mean we had a PM talking about "old stock Canadians" like a decade ago and everyone knew what he meant.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 19, 2022, 01:47:19 pm
I found this  (https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1525875395882389506)to be an interesting thread. They get roasted in the replies, but the lays bare a significant conservative pathology: no one thinks they are cool.

Quote
the “working-class GOP” narrative is complicated by the fact that lots of Republican voters are actually quite wealthy. But the distinction between the two coalitions isn’t defined by wealth, but by proximity to power

"Power" in this case isn't being defined in material terms like money or even political influence, but as cultural cachet. Sure, rural/exuburban conservatives are rich and benefit from a system designed to given them outsized representation, but there's only like two TV shows that aren't woke and no one listens to Christian rock and it drives them insane.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 19, 2022, 02:07:17 pm
Jesus Christ, the mask is completely off.

CPAC Head Promotes Abortion Ban to Stave Off ‘Great Replacement’
 (https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjb7ad/cpac-head-promotes-abortion-ban-to-stave-off-great-replacement)

Quote
Matt Schlapp, the head of the influential Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) and a confidant to former President Donald Trump, says that overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion nationwide, would be a good “first step” in fixing what he says is the problem of immigration in the U.S.
...
“If you say there is a population problem in a country, but you’re killing millions of your own people through legalized abortion every year, if that were to be reduced, some of that problem is solved,” Schlapp said. “You have millions of people who can take many of these jobs. How come no one brings that up? If you’re worried about this quote-unquote replacement, why don’t we start there? Start with allowing our own people to live.”
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on May 19, 2022, 02:24:42 pm
He's an idiot of course. An abortion ban will have the biggest effect on the very minorities he hates so much.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 19, 2022, 03:17:33 pm
Handmaid's Tale
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 20, 2022, 09:45:30 am
lol (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/19/look-time-tucker-carlson-asked-hunter-biden-favor/)

Quote
Tucker Carlson and his wife were looking to get their son a leg up in his college application to Georgetown University when they turned to a well-connected Washington friend who had an even better-connected father.

“I realize you don’t really know Buckley,” Susie Carlson wrote via email in 2014 to Hunter Biden, a Georgetown graduate and the son of the then-vice president. “Maybe you could meet or speak to him and he could send you a very brief resume with his interests and grades attached.”
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 24, 2022, 12:36:57 pm
This is the kind of insane stuff you have to perform when you make the culture war the alpha and omega of your politics.

Quote
There are few things politicians love more than creating jobs and cutting ribbons.

But what if those jobs are on the wrong side of the culture war?

Plans to build a massive electric vehicle factory in rural Georgia have divided Republicans ahead of their primary next week, with Donald Trump-backed David Perdue criticizing rival Gov. Brian Kemp for offering taxpayer incentives to attract a “George Soros-owned woke corporation whose stated purpose is to combat climate change.”

Rivian, the well-capitalized electric pickup truck company that had one of the biggest IPOs in history six months ago, wants to spend $5 billion on a new assembly plant on farmland outside Atlanta. The mammoth factory will create 7,500 jobs and produce up to 400,000 cars a year in what officials say is the largest economic development project in Georgia’s history.

But the price tag for the deal was $1.5 billion in taxpayer incentives. And Perdue, a former U.S. senator, and other Republicans say Kemp cut a bad deal with a bad company.

“It’s a woke California company whose mission is to turn the world green,” Perdue said this month while stumping with local activists trying to stop the plant. “They aren’t interested in this part of the country. They just want to make money off of us."

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 24, 2022, 12:57:32 pm
This is the kind of insane stuff you have to perform when you make the culture war the alpha and omega of your politics.

Maybe Rivian should build their plant in Michigan….   Oh, wait…. Unions and decent wages?  Never mind…. Georgia, it is.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on May 24, 2022, 12:57:44 pm
Uh....

They should look up the FOXCONN deal in Wisconsin.

Unwoke idiots asking to lose money to scams...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on May 25, 2022, 01:39:09 pm
Difficult to tell if these DINOs are stupid, bad faith actors, crooked or just all of the above.

Quote
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said Tuesday he would do “anything I can” to help pass what he called “common sense” legislation to address gun violence in the wake of a horrific shooting in Texas, where at least 19 kids and two teachers died when a gunman opened fire at an elementary school.

“It makes no sense at all why we can’t do common sense things and try to prevent some of this from happening. It’s all just unbelievable how we’ve gotten as a society that someone could be that deranged and this sick,” Manchin lamented.

But when asked if he would support eliminating the filibuster in order to overcome unified Republican opposition to such legislation, Manchin, a staunch filibuster advocate, reiterated that he would not go that far.

“The filibuster is the only thing that prevents us from total insanity,” Manchin told reporters, repeating an argument he has made on other issues, including on voting rights.
The senator has emphasized the importance of protecting the input of the minority in the Senate.

“You would think there would be enough common sense” in the Senate to pass gun control legislation without nuking the filibuster, Manchin added.

link (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-school-shooting-joe-manchin_n_628d7e2ee4b05cfc2692b43a)

Then there's this piece of trash. (https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1529488665189269505?s=20&t=eCsYQ7NiVbvDGHh5E4D8Xw)

If these people had any shame, they would drown themselves in the Potomac.

EDIT: lol the hits keep coming (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/25/schumer-wants-to-pass-gun-reform-bills-after-texas-school-shooting.html)

Quote
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer pledged Wednesday to renew his efforts to pass stricter U.S. gun-control laws, but acknowledged that Republicans will likely block new firearm regulations even after a gunman killed 19 children and two teachers at a Texas elementary school.

Schumer, the chamber’s top Democrat, implored his Republican colleagues to resist the influence of the National Rifle Association, a powerful pro-gun lobbying group, and join Democrats to discuss what measures Congress could pass to reduce mass shootings.

“Please, please, please, damn it, put yourself in the shoes of these parents for once,” the New York lawmaker said from the Senate floor a day after the teenage gunman killed 21 people in Uvalde, Texas.

“Maybe that thought — putting yourself in the shoes of these parents instead of the arms of the NRA — might let you wriggle free from the vise-like grip of the NRA,” Schumer added, “might free you to act on even a simple measure.”

Same guy yesterday (https://www.democrats.senate.gov/news/press-releases/majority-leader-schumer-floor-remarks-announcing-the-senate-will-vote-this-week-on-moving-forward-with-the-domestic-terrorism-prevention-act):

Quote
I know not all Republicans embrace the views of MAGA Republicans. I know many of them support women’s rights and embrace diversity and reject conspiracies like white replacement.

I urge these Republicans in the Senate and in the country to repudiate the MAGA wing taking over the GOP. I invite the voters to support Democratic candidates as a protest against extremism, so we as a nation can halt the dangerous rise of the hard-right.

There's two possibilities here:

1. Schumer believes, against the preponderance of evidence, that there's such a thing as reasonable Republicans
2. He knows there aren't and this stuff is just theatre, a way of justifying Democrat impotence while propping up the status quo.

I'm not sure which is worse.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 20, 2022, 03:42:21 pm
Grifter cosplaying as fascist finds out real fascist don't like him.

Dan Crenshaw & Staff Assaulted by Right Wingers Shouting ‘Eyepatch McCain’ and Saying He Should be ‘Hung for Treason’ (https://www.mediaite.com/online/breaking-dan-crenshaw-staff-physically-assaulted-by-right-wing-attackers-shouting-eyepatch-mccain-at-tx-gop/)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 24, 2022, 09:51:07 am
Roe vs Wade has been overturned.

The United States is effectively being ruled by a cabal of unelected right wing ghouls with lifetime appointments whose power is ensured by a legislature representing a minority of the population. Failed state.

Griswold (contraception), Lawrence (same-sex sex), and Obergefell (same-sex marriage) will be next.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 24, 2022, 12:38:28 pm
Big shout out to the corpse of RBG and Barack Obama for helping the GOP with this big win, they couldn't have done it without you guys!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 24, 2022, 10:42:08 pm
Roe vs Wade has been overturned.

The United States is effectively being ruled by a cabal of unelected right wing ghouls with lifetime appointments whose power is ensured by a legislature representing a minority of the population. Failed state.

Griswold (contraception), Lawrence (same-sex sex), and Obergefell (same-sex marriage) will be next.

There's nothing really in the constitution giving a right to abortion.  And the Roe v Wade legal argument is horrible.  I have to no issue with states deciding, seems more democratic.

I don't agree with criminalizing getting legal abortions in other states.

Also, as a huge democracy advocate, when are you going to complain about the CPC winning the most votes in the last 2 federal elections?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 24, 2022, 11:33:42 pm
There's nothing really in the constitution giving a right to abortion.  And the Roe v Wade legal argument is horrible.  I have to no issue with states deciding, seems more democratic.

I don't agree with criminalizing getting legal abortions in other states.

Also, as a huge democracy advocate, when are you going to complain about the CPC winning the most votes in the last 2 federal elections?

Your support for forced birth policies is noted.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 25, 2022, 12:10:22 am
Your support for forced birth policies is noted.

Your support for baby-killing policies is noted.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on June 25, 2022, 12:27:20 am
Big shout out to the corpse of RBG and Barack Obama for helping the GOP with this big win, they couldn't have done it without you guys!

100% agree on RBG, she ruined her legacy. All the good she did is gone as far as I’m concerned. She knew it was their end goal and she couldn’t put the country first.

What did Obama do though? He asked her to retire early in his second term and she didn’t.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 12:40:29 am
100% agree on RBG, she ruined her legacy. All the good she did is gone as far as I’m concerned. She knew it was their end goal and she couldn’t put the country first.

What did Obama do though? He asked her to retire early in his second term and she didn’t.

https://twitter.com/manuclearbomb/status/1540368058165985281?s=21&t=p4mSjhScyAbo3WnvweRWnQ
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: BC_cheque on June 25, 2022, 12:54:35 am
I’m with Damian Wallace on that thread.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 12:56:12 am
Your support for baby-killing policies is noted.

Yeah and?

You dumb shitheel, you think I care about the blobs you want to prioritize over actual sentient humans? Idiot.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on June 25, 2022, 07:03:02 am
Your support for baby-killing policies is noted.
Do you have a notebook for these things?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 25, 2022, 09:29:43 am
Yeah and?

You dumb shitheel, you think I care about the blobs you want to prioritize over actual sentient humans? Idiot.

Throw more tantrums please, great look.  About the maturity level of a 2 year old, no wait, a fetus.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 10:16:47 am
Throw more tantrums please, great look.  About the maturity level of a 2 year old, no wait, a fetus.

Since when can you tell the difference between the two?

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 10:21:21 am
I’m with Damian Wallace on that thread.

"It was and it makes perfect sense why his 1st year in office he would focus on economic recovery during the worst recession the world has ever seen."

I would like to think he would have been able to do more than one thing, especially since he came into office with 59 senators, which will probably never happen for the D's again.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 10:58:18 am
Revisisting this because I was pissed off and half cut when I initially responded last night :

There's nothing really in the constitution giving a right to abortion.  And the Roe v Wade legal argument is horrible. 

There's nothing about contraception, gay marriage, sex outside of marriage or interracial marriage in there either.

Quote
I have to no issue with states deciding, seems more democratic.

Super democratic until you realize how many states have, with the help of the corrupt SCOTUS, systematically dismantled voting rights and fair representation to enshrine permanent right-wing rule.

Oh and also the GOP is already talking about a federal abortion ban so the "states' rights" argument has been discarded as it has served its purpose.

Quote
I don't agree with criminalizing getting legal abortions in other states.

But you agree with criminalizing abortion and punishing women, abortion providers and anyone who helps someone get an abortion.

Quote
Also, as a huge democracy advocate, when are you going to complain about the CPC winning the most votes in the last 2 federal elections?

WTF does the CPC winning the popular vote have to do with this subject?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on June 25, 2022, 11:52:12 am
Remember when conservatives used to pretend thety were against unelected activist judges? Whatever happened to that?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 01:16:48 pm
Oklahoma Attorney General: ""The womb is now, in Oklahoma, the safest place for a child to be." (https://tulsaworld.com/video/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-oklahoma-ag-celebrate-roe-v-wade-being-overturned/video_36010b5a-cf8d-5aa6-b81d-d40e628c896a.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_tulsaworld)

(https://c.tenor.com/BP8JHeYQz_8AAAAC/oh-my-god-he-admit-it-tim-robinson.gif)

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 25, 2022, 04:31:21 pm
Remember when conservatives used to pretend thety were against unelected activist judges? Whatever happened to that?

Don’t worry…. they still pretend that they are. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 25, 2022, 05:15:16 pm
Don’t worry…. they still pretend that they are.

They love to play-act.

Take this (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/fairness-justice/the-fight-for-life-is-just-beginning) manifesto from an anti-abortion ghoul that appeared in the Moonie Examiner.

Quote
But in a post-Roe America, the pro-life movement’s focus will shift from judges to lawmakers. It must be matched by an urgency to craft strong support policies such as paid family leave. The goal, however, will be the same: to make abortion politically unpopular, legally unobtainable, and culturally unwanted.
...
A pro-life federal strategy must also recognize that the government has a responsibility to support and encourage family formation in more ways than just one. Protecting unborn life from intentional killing is obviously the movement’s focus. But just as important is providing material aid to mothers and families in need, and rewarding them for bringing life into the world in spite of the many difficulties that can accompany such a decision. The grassroots of the pro-life movement have been working to do this for years through pregnancy resource centers across the country. It’s time for the government to take on part of the burden as well.

In the supposedly liberal New York Times, Ross Douthat (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/25/opinion/roe-abortion-politics.html) says something similar about "pro-life" activists potentially prodding conservative governments to push more generous family policies.

This is all kayfaybe, of course. Nothing about R. v Wade stopped "pro-life" activists from pushing for these policies before and conservative governments have had 50 years to enact such things if they wanted to. But they didn't and there's no compelling reason to think they'll start now, especially since the benefits of expansive pro-family policies will disproportionately accrue to *those* people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 28, 2022, 02:19:52 pm
50 people trying to cross the border found dead inside truck trailer
 (https://globalnews.ca/news/8951991/migrants-found-dead-san-antonio/)

Soup-brained Republican Governor blames Biden and "open borders" (https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1541596214705135617), forgetting that an open border would mean that people wouldn't have to smuggle themselves across in trucks.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on June 29, 2022, 05:27:48 pm
Remember when these jagoffs were running around calling leftists and liberals pedo gromers?


Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn told journalists that he believes even 12-year-old girls raped by their fathers and uncles should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term (https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1542208980235296770) because "every life is valuable."
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Sir Humphrey on July 05, 2022, 03:29:18 am
Wow. Just wow. I'm sure Mr. Speaker would have a different view if he actually raised a child created by an insestuous union. He'd abandon it on someone else's doorstep in no time.

Happy Canada Day, belated!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on July 13, 2022, 01:38:40 pm
Remember when these jagoffs were running around calling leftists and liberals pedo gromers?

Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn told journalists that he believes even 12-year-old girls raped by their fathers and uncles should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term (https://twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1542208980235296770) because "every life is valuable."
I am shocked, shocked I say.

I'm not shocked that he thinks young girls should carry their rapist's baby to term. I am shocked that he would make such a direct statement.

Usually when I see a republican confronted with the fact that girls will be forced to give birth to a rapist's babies, they rapidly try to change the subject. Say "Now is not the time to discuss that". Or try to talk about how horrible the crime is and how the guilty person should be punished.

The fact that this Phillip Gunn is so open and upfront with his anti-woman attitude is actually rather refreshing.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 15, 2022, 01:00:12 pm
The book ban movement has a chilling new tactic: harassing teachers on social media
 (https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/07/15/1055959/book-bans-social-media-harassment/)

Quote
Nancy Vera was awakened suddenly at midnight on July 12 by the sound of a single gunshot, the bullet ricocheting off her home. She looked at a security camera just in time to see a truck speed away.

Vera was shocked but not surprised. The president of the Corpus Christi, Texas, branch of the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), she had recently handed out books with LGBTQ characters at a pride event for local students, alongside a drag queen.

Vera thought the event was a fun opportunity to connect with local parents and distribute books to kids. But conservatives, including her local sheriff, called the event an example of the "grooming and indoctrination of young people in our country." "Grooming" is a slur commonly used by devotees of the conspiracy theory QAnon, which claims that powerful people and institutions are ensnaring children in sex trafficking rings.

“This type of rhetoric is going to get people killed,” she says.
...
The recent turn to monitoring educators’ social media accounts is no surprise, says Friedman, given the book-ban movement’s origins in online messaging boards and Facebook groups.

“This is a movement that was formed online, so it’s not so much that these activists are moving online so much as they are moving the target from schools to teachers and librarians,” Friedman says. “And it’s not going to stop there.”

Vera has seen the impact of this firsthand. In the week since the pride book event, she says, she has been bombarded with threatening Facebook messages and phone calls. In an effort to protect herself, she now carries Mace and has installed home security cameras.


Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 15, 2022, 06:09:20 pm
Democrats have turned the United States into a third world country.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 15, 2022, 09:06:44 pm
Democrats have turned the United States into a third world country.

(Attachment Link)

People buying less snobby coffee due to pandemic work-from-home, 16 stores close, 15 billion stores still remain in America, CEO throws tantrum and takes a vague dump on his country.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 16, 2022, 10:47:12 am
Democrats have turned the United States into a third world country.

(Attachment Link)

I’m betting a ton of those “unsafe” stores have recently unionized.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 16, 2022, 11:03:51 am
People buying less snobby coffee due to pandemic work-from-home, 16 stores close, 15 billion stores still remain in America, CEO throws tantrum and takes a vague dump on his country.
You need to better familiarize yourself with the current crime problems going on in Democrat run big cities.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 16, 2022, 11:04:07 am
I’m betting a ton of those “unsafe” stores have recently unionized.
Cite?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 16, 2022, 12:50:20 pm
You need to better familiarize yourself with the current crime problems going on in Democrat run big cities.
Cite?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 16, 2022, 03:17:38 pm
You need to better familiarize yourself with the current crime problems going on in Democrat run big cities.

Why, were all stores closed in San Fran and LA?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 16, 2022, 04:52:24 pm
Why, were all stores closed in San Fran and LA?
Just the ones that have been significantly impacted by higher crime.  Is that difficult to understand?  But speaking of those cities, one D.A. has already been recalled, and one is going to be, because of crime.  You’re welcome for the free the education.  😊

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 16, 2022, 04:55:21 pm
Democrats continue to turn American society into a clown show.  “Women” get female inmates pregnant now.  All thanks to libtards.  It would be an easy problem to fix, keep biological males and biological females in separate facilities.  But nope, Dems gonna Dem! 😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 16, 2022, 06:25:13 pm
Cite?

Boom (https://inthesetimes.com/article/starbucks-union-labor-complaint-store-closures-nlrb)

Quote
The coffee chain said that by the end of the month it would close six stores each in the Seattle and Los Angeles areas, two in Portland, Oregon, as well as locations in Washington, D.C. and Philadelphia. On Wednesday, Seattle workers from Starbucks Workers United (SBWU) — the union that has been organizing stores across the country — filed an unfair labor practice charge arguing that the closures amount to retaliation and illegal coercion against union activity.

Of the 16 stores set for closure, two locations in Seattle have successfully unionized and one store in Portland is set for a union vote in August.

“Within the past six months the Employer closed and/​or threatened to close at least 16 stores in order to discourage union activity, retaliate against workers engaged in union activity and/​or escape its obligation to bargain with the Union,” reads the complaint.

The charge seeks injunctive relief for the workers at the closed stores, which would fast-track a court order while the case is being litigated before the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), a process which can often take months.

This isn’t the first time SBWU has charged that the company has shut down stores as a way to suppress organizing.

In May, the NLRB issued a wide-reaching complaint on behalf of unionized stores in the Buffalo, New York area that alleged upper management closed two stores shortly after the union drive began, an allegation that was among a list of over 200 labor violations. A federal court is currently holding a hearing on whether to issue injunctive relief based on that complaint.

Workers at a Starbucks store in Ithaca, New York filed a similar charge after the location was closed down at the beginning of June — two months after they voted to unionize.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 16, 2022, 06:27:46 pm
Just the ones that have been significantly impacted by higher crime.  Is that difficult to understand?  But speaking of those cities, one D.A. has already been recalled, and one is going to be, because of crime.  You’re welcome for the free the education.  😊


Did you somehow get more retarded while you were away?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 18, 2022, 03:51:08 pm
The libtard clown show continues.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 18, 2022, 03:56:24 pm
Boom (https://inthesetimes.com/article/starbucks-union-labor-complaint-store-closures-nlrb)
Your blog cite submits no proof that all the stores that are closing are unionized.  Even your blog cite states most aren’t.  Lol, boom-er! 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 18, 2022, 04:25:08 pm
The libtard clown show continues.

(Attachment Link)

Why don't you ever post actual links instead of poorly cropped screenshots? Is it because you're retarded?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 18, 2022, 04:27:16 pm
Your blog cite submits no proof that all the stores that are closing are unionized.  Even your blog cite states most aren’t.  Lol, boom-er! 😂

LOL the congenital liar/fake news peddler has some things to say about the quality of evidence on offer? F*ck off numbnuts.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 18, 2022, 04:33:17 pm
Why don't you ever post actual links instead of poorly cropped screenshots? Is it because you're retarded?
I guess it’s easier to personally attack people than to try to defend your clownish libtard policies huh?  I don’t blame you.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 18, 2022, 04:41:01 pm
I guess it’s easier to personally attack people than to try to defend your clownish libtard policies huh?  I don’t blame you.

How can I defend something when I can't actually read it because you posted a screenshot and not a link, you absolute cretin?

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 19, 2022, 10:54:30 am
I found the link  (https://www.thecollegefix.com/gender-activists-push-to-bar-anthropologists-from-identifying-human-remains-as-male-or-female/)that Shidd-for-brains failed to provide and, as expected, it's nothing more than right wing clickbait.

let's start with the headline: "Gender activists push to bar anthropologists from identifying human remains as ‘male’ or ‘female’" There's literally nothing in the article that supports this claim.

You have one scholar saying that, basically, you can't tell someone's gender identity from their skeleton (duh). You have an organization that is trying to develop a database of missing/murdered transgender people and then you have a random quote from a random anthropologist. That's it. Not one single person saying or even coming close to suggesting what the headline says. Just pure unadulterated bullsh*t all the way down, hardly worth the five minutes it took me to find the article, read it and refute it. Boomer bait for melt-brained losers, in other words.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 20, 2022, 11:27:38 am
So did the Secret Service really delete all the evidence of them facilitating Marjorie Taylor Greene as she planted that pipe bomb?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 11:35:48 am
So did the Secret Service really delete all the evidence of them facilitating Marjorie Taylor Greene as she planted that pipe bomb?
Lol, BlueAnon! 😂😂😂
It was probably Putin!!!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 20, 2022, 12:13:41 pm
Lol, BlueAnon! 😂😂😂
It was probably Putin!!!
In addition to planting pipe bombs, a majority of Republicans voted against the right to gay marriage. Because...freedom?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 12:20:21 pm
In addition to planting pipe bombs, a majority of Republicans voted against the right to gay marriage. Because...freedom?
That’s not what they voted against, try harder.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 12:23:28 pm
In addition to planting pipe bombs, a majority of Republicans voted against the right to gay marriage. Because...freedom?

They also voted unanimously against (https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgbny/republicans-investigate-neo-nazis-military) investigating white supremacist and neo-Nazi activity in the military and federal law enforcement. Don't want to alienate the base, after all.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 12:27:20 pm
They also voted unanimously against (https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkgbny/republicans-investigate-neo-nazis-military) investigating white supremacist and neo-Nazi activity in the military and federal law enforcement. Don't want to alienate the base, after all.
You mean they voted against McCarthyism. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 20, 2022, 12:28:22 pm
That expression on her face as Gaetz mentions her planting the pipe bombs is a dead giveaway.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1519060819442601987?t=Wzq4L7j9o1LD98YweaBAog&s=19
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 12:31:00 pm
You mean they voted against McCarthyism.

Found the Nazi defender.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 12:35:36 pm
Found the Nazi defender.
Lol, everyone I disagree with is a nazi!  😂😂😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 20, 2022, 12:52:09 pm
That's a rather unique gait.
https://youtu.be/efErNvnPvzc
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 01:36:57 pm
Truly wild to me how the right wing is completely obsessed with statistically insignificant things like late term abortions, adolescent medical transitions and voter fraud and either indifferent to or active supporters of widespread gun violence, targeted harassment of public officials, state censorship,.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 01:37:43 pm
Lol, everyone I disagree with is a nazi!  😂😂😂

You're literally against flushing Nazis out of the military and police, that makes you objectively pro-Nazi.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 01:42:49 pm
You're literally against flushing Nazis out of the military and police, that makes you objectively pro-Nazi.
Not when you find out what the standard was being used.  The devil is in the details.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 01:44:12 pm
Not when you find out what the standard was being used.  The devil is in the details.

OK, I'll bite: what's the standard?

FTR, the full text of the amendment is as follows:

Quote
An amendment numbered 31 printed in Part A of House Report 117-405 to direct the FBI, Department of Homeland Security, and the Secretary of Defense to publish a report that analyzes and sets out strategies to combat White supremacist and neo-Nazi activity in the uniformed services and Federal law enforcement agencies not later than 180 days after enactment and every six months thereafter.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 01:44:51 pm
Truly wild to me how the right wing is completely obsessed with statistically insignificant things like late term abortions, adolescent medical transitions and voter fraud and either indifferent to or active supporters of widespread gun violence, targeted harassment of public officials, state censorship,.
It’s not insignificant to an unborn 8 month old who’s skull gets crushed, or a baby that survives an abortion.  It might not happen much, but it still happens.  For you to suggest that no law is necessary for those circumstances is appalling.  You’re a true cultist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 01:47:06 pm
OK, I'll bite: what's the standard?
Lol, so you admit you don’t know what you’re talking about!  The government says they’re doing something, but you don’t care how?   That’s like me saying that if you didn’t support George Bush’s no child left behind policy, you want children to suffer.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 01:51:06 pm
It’s not insignificant to an unborn 8 month old who’s skull gets crushed, or a baby that survives an abortion.  It might not happen much, but it still happens.  For you to suggest that no law is necessary for those circumstances is appalling.  You’re a true cultist.

You're going to have to offer some evidence that it happens at all. But given your inability to ever back up your nonsense, I won't hold my breath.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 01:54:35 pm
Lol, so you admit you don’t know what you’re talking about!  The government says they’re doing something, but you don’t care how?   That’s like me saying that if you didn’t support George Bush’s no child left behind policy, you want children to suffer.

No, I was asking if you knew what the standard is.

Here's the bill (https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/7.12.22%20-Report.pdf), can you tell me what you find objectionable here?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 02:02:28 pm
You're going to have to offer some evidence that it happens at all. But given your inability to ever back up your nonsense, I won't hold my breath.
So you’re saying it doesn’t happen at all?  Is that your position?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 02:03:09 pm
So you’re saying it doesn’t happen at all?  Is that your position?

Pretty much, yeah. You're claiming otherwise so let's see some evidence.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 20, 2022, 02:05:47 pm
No, I was asking if you knew what the standard is.

Here's the bill (https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/7.12.22%20-Report.pdf), can you tell me what you find objectionable here?
Lol, now you’re filibustering.  Just admit that you have no idea what the details of the process is.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 20, 2022, 02:25:03 pm
Lol, now you’re filibustering.  Just admit that you have no idea what the details of the process is.
Asking for evidence to support an assertion is not filibustering. You appear to be admitting you have no evidence. But you would still like to get the state involved in a woman's deliberations with her doctor because...Big State Shady.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 20, 2022, 04:22:25 pm
Lol, now you’re filibustering.  Just admit that you have no idea what the details of the process is.

The process is there in the text of the bill. I'm asking you what part you find objectionable, but the fact you can't do so tells me you haven't read the bill and are simply repeating a talking point you read on whatever right wing outrage machine you are plugged into in lieu of independent thought.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 21, 2022, 02:34:34 pm
Hey @Shady, any more to say on what your issues are with the anti-Nazi bill?

How about this one:

House passes legislation to enshrine a right to contraception in federal law
 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-passes-legislation-enshrine-right-contraception-federal-law-rcna39167)

Quote
The House voted 228-195 largely along party lines Thursday to pass legislation to codify the right to contraception nationwide, seeking to protect it from potential Supreme Court intervention.

The Right To Contraception Act, sponsored by Rep. Kathy Manning, D-N.C., would establish a right in federal law for individuals to obtain and use contraceptives. It would also affirm a right for health care providers to provide contraceptives and allow the Justice Department and entities harmed by contraception restrictions to seek enforcement of the right in court.

Only eight Republicans voted with all 220 Democrats on the bill.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 21, 2022, 04:21:58 pm
Democrats continue to turn American society into a clown show.  “Women” get female inmates pregnant now.  All thanks to libtards. It would be an easy problem to fix, keep biological males and biological females in separate facilities. But nope, Dems gonna Dem! 😂

Quote
The civilian oversight board that investigates Sheriff’s Department misconduct allegations has found credible a spate of complaints filed by a transgender woman who was badly beaten after being placed in a cell with three men at the San Diego Central Jail.

Kristina Frost was arrested in November 2020, wearing women’s clothing and carrying a California driver’s license identifying her as a woman, and was placed in a Central Jail holding cell with three men.

One of those men beat her severely, breaking her jaw, and deputies failed to respond immediately, she says in her federal lawsuit.

link (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/story/2022-07-18/transgender-jail-beating-sheriff-clerb)

EDIT:

Here's (https://news.yahoo.com/trans-woman-now-mens-prison-210056991.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKXJhLmS_v081ZKq_THeQMOfgkR9b4TiceKr8s7o48vJR6mDHR58Uf5mSY8MetEfF4pCWwrbm4oh0n7bmDKONIzKKBH_PwrjvKDwAIKCOuNQOk-My7LhXOxmY_nq374jnL8wJckrdhy_ALnGdZjigJ5tQe7RbwFp7Q1AIpJNM7fF) an actual link to the story Shiddy is referencing above.

And here's (https://www.nj.com/news/2020/04/sex-abuse-is-rampant-at-womens-prison-federal-inquiry-finds-nj-did-little-to-stop-it.html) a link to a story about the history of rampant sexual abuse of inmates by staff at the very same prison in this story, but weird how bigots like him don't seem too concerned with this stuff unless it involves trans people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on July 22, 2022, 06:35:40 pm
How can a party pretend to be for freedom while voting against people's right to access contraception?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 22, 2022, 06:44:24 pm
How can a party pretend to be for freedom while voting against people's right to access contraception?

They think that not becoming pregnant is akin to murder.  We don’t have the freedom to murder either. 


Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 25, 2022, 10:00:25 am
This is as good an explanation as I've ever seen about the pathologies that animate the conservative movement.

Anti-social Conservatives: The Republican party is against society (https://www.gawker.com/politics/anti-social-conservatives)

Quote
The belief that society doesn’t exist, or shouldn’t, is a rejection of neighborliness and trust, a democratic civic culture, and the possibility of encountering those unlike yourself on equal ground. It is, in a way, an attempt to make the world your home — a place of safety and control. Of course the right despises “social justice”: it implies that domestic hierarchies and private prejudices will no longer be reproduced or tolerated “out there.”
...
The right benefits from people becoming more isolated, hunkered down, wary of others, and doubtful that a better future can be built. It is to such people that the reactionary message appeals: the best you can hope for is to hoard what you have, and attack the shadowy forces and alien others that you’re told imperil you and your livelihood. Solidarity and generosity are turned into risky wagers not worth taking.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 25, 2022, 09:58:36 pm
This is as good an explanation as I've ever seen about the pathologies that animate the conservative movement.

Anti-social Conservatives: The Republican party is against society (https://www.gawker.com/politics/anti-social-conservatives)

Pretty good explanation, in the article.

Many Americans generally have fundamentally different ways of looking at government and politics compared to most Canadians.  In a place like Texas they just think differently.

America was born out of revolution that rebelled against a tyrannical government, and the US constitution was built specifically from preventing that from happening again. Thus many Americans are independent and distrustful of government by nature, conservatives especially .  They push government out of their lives.  They are classical liberals of the John Locke and Adam Smith psychology.

Canada was born out slow incremental changes, a country filled with loyalists to the monarchy (including many loyalists who fled the US to British North America aka Canada during the US revolution) and full independence wasn't achieved until 1984.  By nature Canadians don't distrust government as much as Americans do.

Canadians have a more maternalistic view of government and the role of "society":  we as citizens should be compassionate about our neighbours and help people in need to get ahead in life.  Americans are more like "leave me and my family the hell alone, we're none of your business, we can take care of ourselves, now get the hell off my property before I shoot you".  The anti-communist/anti-socialist propaganda during the Cold War just cemented things further.  It's a different mindset, and it's such a part of the culture going back centuries that it's hard to change people's minds even when the evidence shows they're wrong.  Americans (especially non-urban, non-cosmopolitan types) tend to not experience cultures outside their own country which just makes it even to tougher for them to realize that there are actually different ways of doing things that may actually work better.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 26, 2022, 10:02:42 am
Canadians have a more maternalistic view of government and the role of "society":  we as citizens should be compassionate about our neighbours and help people in need to get ahead in life.  Americans are more like "leave me and my family the hell alone, we're none of your business, we can take care of ourselves, now get the hell off my property before I shoot you".  The anti-communist/anti-socialist propaganda during the Cold War just cemented things further.  It's a different mindset, and it's such a part of the culture going back centuries that it's hard to change people's minds even when the evidence shows they're wrong.  Americans (especially non-urban, non-cosmopolitan types) tend to not experience cultures outside their own country which just makes it even to tougher for them to realize that there are actually different ways of doing things that may actually work better.

Americans also hate the idea of society because they can't stand the idea that *those people* might benefit from it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 29, 2022, 10:31:52 am
Looks like the Dems actually put one over on the GOP

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) reached their agreement on a major tax and climate package Tuesday evening but kept it a closely guard secret — giving Democrats just enough time to pass a $280 billion chips and science bill that Republicans would have otherwise blocked. 

The announcement of the deal, which would raise $739 billion in new tax revenue, fund an array of new climate provisions and pay down $300 billion of the federal deficit, came as a complete surprise to their Senate colleagues.
...
Republicans who voted for tens of billions of dollars for the domestic semiconductor manufacturing industry and the National Science Foundation were outraged and felt betrayed.

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), a key player in getting the chips and science bill passed, said he received “assurance privately from some Democrats, including the staff of the Senate majority leader, that the tax and climate provisions were off the table,” which Republicans said would be a precondition for moving the chips bill. 

Cornyn took to the Senate floor Thursday afternoon to rail against the secret climate and tax deal.

“How can we negotiate in good faith, compromise where necessary, and get things done together after the majority leader and the senator from West Virginia pull a stunt like this?” he said with rising exasperation. “To look you in the eye and tell you one thing and to do another is absolutely unforgivable.”
[/QUOTE]

link (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3578689-inside-the-secret-manchin-schumer-deal-dems-shocked-gop-feels-betrayed/)



Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 29, 2022, 11:10:01 am
Looks like the Dems actually put one over on the GOP

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) reached their agreement on a major tax and climate package Tuesday evening but kept it a closely guard secret — giving Democrats just enough time to pass a $280 billion chips and science bill that Republicans would have otherwise blocked. 

The announcement of the deal, which would raise $739 billion in new tax revenue, fund an array of new climate provisions and pay down $300 billion of the federal deficit, came as a complete surprise to their Senate colleagues.
...
Republicans who voted for tens of billions of dollars for the domestic semiconductor manufacturing industry and the National Science Foundation were outraged and felt betrayed.

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), a key player in getting the chips and science bill passed, said he received “assurance privately from some Democrats, including the staff of the Senate majority leader, that the tax and climate provisions were off the table,” which Republicans said would be a precondition for moving the chips bill. 

Cornyn took to the Senate floor Thursday afternoon to rail against the secret climate and tax deal.

“How can we negotiate in good faith, compromise where necessary, and get things done together after the majority leader and the senator from West Virginia pull a stunt like this?” he said with rising exasperation. “To look you in the eye and tell you one thing and to do another is absolutely unforgivable.”

link (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3578689-inside-the-secret-manchin-schumer-deal-dems-shocked-gop-feels-betrayed/)
[/quote]
Yep, the great Joe Biden is going to tackle inflation by printing hundreds of billions more dollars! 😂😂😂
Everyone knows I don’t like Trudeau, but at least he’s not this stupid.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 29, 2022, 11:32:14 am
link (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3578689-inside-the-secret-manchin-schumer-deal-dems-shocked-gop-feels-betrayed/)

Yep, the great Joe Biden is going to tackle inflation by printing hundreds of billions more dollars! 😂😂😂
Everyone knows I don’t like Trudeau, but at least he’s not this stupid.


You cry about inflation and then you cry about recessions caused by inflation-fighting rate hikes. Why, it's like you're a partisan bad-faith hack loser or something.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 29, 2022, 12:58:56 pm

You cry about inflation and then you cry about recessions caused by inflation-fighting rate hikes. Why, it's like you're a partisan bad-faith hack loser or something.
If the Biden administration had acted sooner, the economy might have had a chance for a soft landing.  But they kept insisting that inflation was “transitory”, which anyone could see wasn’t the case.  They reap what they sow.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 29, 2022, 01:30:20 pm
If the Biden administration had acted sooner, the economy might have had a chance for a soft landing.  But they kept insisting that inflation was “transitory”, which anyone could see wasn’t the case.  They reap what they sow.

There's literally nothing they could have done at any point at all that you wouldn't have cried about.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on July 29, 2022, 02:10:50 pm
There's literally nothing they could have done at any point at all that you wouldn't have cried about.
That’s incorrect.  I already stated what could’ve been done.  Regardless, I think it’s funny that the Biden administration is trying to change the definition of recession.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on July 29, 2022, 02:17:19 pm
That’s incorrect.  I already stated what could’ve been done. Regardless, I think it’s funny that the Biden administration is trying to change the definition of recession.

No you didn't you just said they could have "acted sooner." And we all know nothing they could have done would have been good enough for you, so don't insult everyone's intelligence by pretending you're not a dishonest partisan hack.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on August 03, 2022, 04:13:40 pm
Why would Josh Hawley vote against allowing Sweden and Finland into NATO? Other than because the GOP is financed and owned by Russia
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 01, 2022, 01:27:07 pm
LMAOOOOOO

Sarah Palin humbled in Alaska special election
 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/01/democrats-sarah-palin-mary-peltola-alaska-special-election)

Quote
A special election for Alaska’s only seat in the US House was won by the Democrat Mary Peltola, delivering a blow to the former vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s hopes of a political comeback and putting wind in the sails of the Democratic party as it heads for November’s midterm elections.

Peltola’s victory, by 51.5% to 48.5%, marks a stunning turnaround in a state known for its solid conservative leanings. The single House seat was held for almost 50 years by the Republican Don Young, until his death in March.

Donald Trump, who endorsed Palin and campaigned for her at a rally in Anchorage, won Alaska by 10 points in the 2020 presidential election.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 01, 2022, 01:28:15 pm


Sarah Palin humbled in Alaska special election
 (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/01/democrats-sarah-palin-mary-peltola-alaska-special-election)

Yesterday's news I guess... but a little surprising also.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 12:30:50 pm
Yikes!  How do you reason with people like this?

Nearly 1 In 4 Democratic Voters Believe Men Can Get Pregnant: Poll
https://www.dailywire.com/news/nearly-1-in-4-democratic-voters-believe-men-can-get-pregnant-poll
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on September 07, 2022, 12:32:16 pm
Yikes!  How do you reason with people like this?

Nearly 1 In 4 Democratic Voters Believe Men Can Get Pregnant: Poll
https://www.dailywire.com/news/nearly-1-in-4-democratic-voters-believe-men-can-get-pregnant-poll

Transgender males?  Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 01:22:10 pm
Yikes!  How do you reason with people like this?

70% of Republicans think Trump won the 2020 election (https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 01:33:26 pm
Yikes!  How do you reason with people like this?

70% of Republicans think Trump won the 2020 election (https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/)
Biden didn’t win legitimately.  He had the media and technology companies censor negative stories for him.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2022, 01:59:39 pm
Yikes!  How do you reason with people like this?

70% of Republicans think Trump won the 2020 election (https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/)
Heck you can find all sorts of nonsense that republican voters believe in...

For example, in one poll, over 60% of republicans believed in young-earth creationism.

See: https://news.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx

And in another poll, roughly 56% expressed at least partial belief in the Qanon conspiracy theory (a belief that the U.S. is controlled by some sort of satanic cult of child molesters.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/02/majority-of-republicans-believe-the-qanon-conspiracy-theory-is-partly-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/?sh=5cdd7a985231

Last time I checked, numbers like 56 and 60% were much higher percentage than the number of Democrats who think men can get pregnant (which, of course, also ignores the issue of transgenered individuals, who CAN get pregnant)

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 07, 2022, 02:33:07 pm
Yes, it would be more accurate to say one-quarter of Democrats are willing to accept trans people as they wish to be accepted. In which case, that number seems unfortunately low.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 02:40:58 pm
Why would Josh Hawley vote against allowing Sweden and Finland into NATO? Other than because the GOP is financed and owned by Russia
Men can’t get pregnant.  That’s a scientific and biological fact.  None of your woke bullshit will change that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 02:42:32 pm
Heck you can find all sorts of nonsense that republican voters believe in...

For example, in one poll, over 60% of republicans believed in young-earth creationism.

See: https://news.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx

And in another poll, roughly 56% expressed at least partial belief in the Qanon conspiracy theory (a belief that the U.S. is controlled by some sort of satanic cult of child molesters.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/02/majority-of-republicans-believe-the-qanon-conspiracy-theory-is-partly-or-mostly-true-survey-finds/?sh=5cdd7a985231

Last time I checked, numbers like 56 and 60% were much higher percentage than the number of Democrats who think men can get pregnant (which, of course, also ignores the issue of transgenered individuals, who CAN get pregnant)
Good point.  Even in your examples, 40% of Democrats believe in young earth creationism.  You believe that a large percentage of Democrats also believe George Bush was behind 911.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 02:50:04 pm
Biden didn’t win legitimately.  He had the media and technology companies censor negative stories for him.

He got more votes, that's all that matters.

If you disqualified every president that won because of some backroom shenanigans you'd have no presidents left.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 02:50:30 pm
Men can’t get pregnant.  That’s a scientific and biological fact.  None of your woke bullshit will change that.

What's a man?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 07, 2022, 03:06:08 pm
Men can’t get pregnant.  That’s a scientific and biological fact.  None of your woke bullshit will change that.
You are only stating that you don't believe trans people should be accepted as they wish to be accepted. Nothing more.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 03:23:06 pm
He got more votes, that's all that matters.

If you disqualified every president that won because of some backroom shenanigans you'd have no presidents left.
Spoken like a true fascist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 03:23:56 pm
You are only stating that you don't believe trans people should be accepted as they wish to be accepted. Nothing more.
No, we shouldn’t change biological facts based on somebody’s feelings.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 07, 2022, 03:36:14 pm
No, we shouldn’t change biological facts based on somebody’s feelings.
It is a biological fact that trans people exist.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 03:44:20 pm
Spoken like a true fascist.

(https://c.tenor.com/Qqhtb7KbrGcAAAAC/princess-bride-you-keep-using-that-word.gif)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 04:15:51 pm
It is a biological fact that trans people exist.
Biology cares not about the invention of trans people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 04:17:06 pm
Biology cares not about the invention of trans people.

You're still in the cave where biological sex and gender identity are the same thing huh?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on September 07, 2022, 04:17:52 pm
Quote
Biden didn’t win legitimately.  He had the media and technology companies censor negative stories for him.
He got more votes, that's all that matters.

If you disqualified every president that won because of some backroom shenanigans you'd have no presidents left.
Hey, I know for a fact that Biden was especially dirty!

After all, he had the Russians interfering in the elections to falsely promote biden!

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2020_United_States_elections
In February and August 2020, United States Intelligence Community (USIC) experts warned members of Congress that Russia was interfering in the 2020 presidential election in then-President Donald Trump's favor.

Nope, wait a second, that was Trump and the republicans they were helping out.

But Biden did violate the Hatch act!

See: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/probe-finds-trump-officials-repeatedly-violated-hatch-act
At least 13 former Trump administration officials violated the law by intermingling campaigning with their official government duties... The report from the Office of Special Counsel says the officials broke the law without consequence and with the administration’s approval as part of a “willful disregard for the Hatch Act,” which prohibits government officials from using their official roles to influence elections...

Oh, wait a second, that was Trump again.

Actually, the whole "Media censoring anti-Biden stories" that the MAGAchud like to drum up is a myth... basically it was media companies learning a lesson from the 2016 election by simply being more careful about spreading misinformation generated by the Russians.

Putin (through Russian hackers): "Biden is secretly a vampire who feasts on the blood of children, turning them gay!"
Media Companies: "Ok, that's dumb. Maybe we won't be so gullible as we were last election and not spread such nonsense"
MAGAchud: "Censorship!"
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 04:28:11 pm
You're still in the cave where biological sex and gender identity are the same thing huh?
No, but we’re taking about pregnancy, which is a biological function.  Men cannot get pregnant.  Only women can get pregnant, and women who think they’re men can get pregnant. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 07, 2022, 04:34:29 pm
Trans men can often get pregnant, but you choose to believe they don't exist. That's your whole argument.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 05:03:22 pm
Trans men can often get pregnant, but you choose to believe they don't exist. That's your whole argument.
You do you.  You believe whatever you want to believe, just don’t force me to believe it.  Kinda like flat earthers, or those people that think the world is only 6000 years old.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 05:04:05 pm
No, but we’re taking about pregnancy, which is a biological function.  Men cannot get pregnant.  Only women can get pregnant, and women who think they’re men can get pregnant.

Who care
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 05:08:29 pm
You do you.  You believe whatever you want to believe, just don’t force me to believe it.  Kinda like flat earthers, or those people that think the world is only 6000 years old.

Yeah people are allowed to believe all kinds of stupid nonsense like slavery wasn't in the US constitution, or there was only one instance of police tear gassing peaceful BLM protests, or the U.S. embargo on Cuba came after the Cuban missile crisis, or that COVID vaccines weren't peer-reviewed or that there were only 300-400 people at the Capitol on January 6, 2020, or that Ashliiiiiii Babbitt was just minding her own business, or that Joe Biden wasn't the legitimate winner of the 2020 election and so on and so forth.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 07, 2022, 07:43:58 pm
Yeah people are allowed to believe all kinds of stupid nonsense like slavery wasn't in the US constitution, or there was only one instance of police tear gassing peaceful BLM protests, or the U.S. embargo on Cuba came after the Cuban missile crisis, or that COVID vaccines weren't peer-reviewed or that there were only 300-400 people at the Capitol on January 6, 2020, or that Ashliiiiiii Babbitt was just minding her own business, or that Joe Biden wasn't the legitimate winner of the 2020 election and so on and so forth.
Too many lies and distortions to address, but you’ve brought up that slavery talking point several times, perhaps you can expand on what you mean by “slavery in the constitution “.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 07, 2022, 08:51:00 pm
Too many lies and distortions to address, but you’ve brought up that slavery talking point several times, perhaps you can expand on what you mean by “slavery in the constitution “.

Nah I already addressed this back when you first made the claim and you slunk away like you always do when you get owned. Don’t feel like repeating myself.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: waldo on September 08, 2022, 10:36:56 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb84HXmaAAICvKw?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 08, 2022, 10:48:45 am
The Republican calls the Democrat a GROOMER...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on September 08, 2022, 12:06:19 pm
The Republican calls the Democrat a GROOMER...
Is that before or after the Republican is caught transporting underage girls across state lines?

Note: See the case of Gaetz, Matt... Although I could have also pointed out Moore, or Gym Jordan as other examples. Or even the Republican politician who liked to walk into the dressing room where underage girls were changing. Who is that guy? Name sounds something like Stump? Bump? Rump?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kendalltaggart/teen-beauty-queens-say-trump-walked-in-on-them-changing#.kavkWYOwE
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: waldo on September 08, 2022, 04:50:00 pm
now that's a perp-walk! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1567938828949749763/pu/vid/1280x720/1T7FUhDFpTVKsLRQ.mp4?tag=12) Trumpy pardoned Bannon at the federal level but SDNY is taking a run at him at the state level in regards, "money laundering, conspiracy and fraud related to a/his border wall effort

Quote from: while perp-walkin', blowhardy Steve Bannon
This is what happens in the last days of a dying regime. They will never shut me up, they’ll have to kill me first. I have not yet begun to fight!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 08, 2022, 05:28:32 pm
Quote
This is what happens in the last days of a dying regime. They will never shut me up, they’ll have to kill me first. I have not yet begun to fight!

Don't threaten me with a good time lol
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 02:25:22 pm
TiL that Brett Favre is a welfare queen with a little help from his Republicans buddies.

Quote
Never-before-seen text messages show former (Mississippi) Gov. Phil Bryant tried to shepherd a proposal to use welfare funds on the construction of a new volleyball stadium for retired NFL player Brett Favre – a project prosecutors have called a scheme to defraud the government. Bryant has previously denied any involvement with the project, which has emerged as the centerpiece of a massive criminal scandal in which prominent officials misspent or stole millions in welfare funds intended for the nation’s poorest residents.

link (https://mississippitoday.org/2022/09/13/phil-bryant-brett-favre-welfare/)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 15, 2022, 02:38:39 pm
Reported that DeSantis had migrants sent to Mass. without any forewarning... just dumping tired hungry people at an airport in a state he doesn't like.  Unbelievable.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/14/politics/marthas-vineyard-massachusetts-migrants-planes/index.html
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 03:04:17 pm
Reported that DeSantis had migrants sent to Mass. without any forewarning... just dumping tired hungry people at an airport in a state he doesn't like.  Unbelievable.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/14/politics/marthas-vineyard-massachusetts-migrants-planes/index.html

And lying to them about having jobs and housing waiting for them
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 03:21:27 pm
Oh hey turns out they've played this game before.

Quote
Fuming over the civil rights movement, Southern segregationists had concocted a way to retaliate against Northern liberals. In 1962, they tricked about 200 African Americans from the South into moving north. The idea was simple: When large numbers of African Americans showed up on Northern doorsteps, Northerners would not be able to accommodate them. They would not want them, and their hypocrisy would be exposed.

The Cruel Story Behind The 'Reverse Freedom Rides' (https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/02/29/809740346/the-cruel-story-behind-the-reverse-freedom-rides)

Interesting thing about the segregationists and their spiritual descendants like DeSantis is their belief that everyone else is just as big an a$$hole as they are.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 15, 2022, 03:26:17 pm
Disgusting behaviour

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akejez/ron-desantis-marthas-vineyard-migrants

Children were involved...

Quote
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is boasting about sending two planes full of undocumented immigrants, including children, to Martha’s Vineyard in Massachusetts on Wednesday, apparently just to make a point about liberal  immigration policies.

The flights reportedly didn’t even originate in Florida but rather Texas, and the migrants weren’t told where they were going and were wooed with promises of expedited work papers, NPR reported.

"She offered us help. Help that never arrived," 30-year-old Andres Duarte, from Venezuela, told NPR about a woman who identified herself as “Perla.”

The woman approached the migrants outside of a shelter in San Antonio where they were staying and said the flights would take them to Boston, NPR reported.

"Now we are here. We got on the plane with a vision of the future, of making it,” Duarte added.

The planes arrived in Martha’s Vineyard, a popular tourist destination, especially for the wealthy, in Massachusetts, around 3:15 p.m Wednesday, according to NPR. The flights originated in San Antonio, however, and only made a layover stop in Florida (and then South Carolina) before heading to Massachusetts, NPR reported.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 04:34:27 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb84HXmaAAICvKw?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Math isn’t socialism, math is racist! 😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 04:35:23 pm
Disgusting behaviour

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akejez/ron-desantis-marthas-vineyard-migrants

Children were involved...
What’s disgusting?  Children will love Martha’s Vineyard.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 04:40:13 pm
Reported that DeSantis had migrants sent to Mass. without any forewarning... just dumping tired hungry people at an airport in a state he doesn't like.  Unbelievable.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/14/politics/marthas-vineyard-massachusetts-migrants-planes/index.html
Yes, Texas is doing it to, and it’s about time.  Until these people in proclaimed “sanctuary states” and “sanctuary cities” understand the problem they’re creating, it’s never going to stop.  It shouldn’t up only left to border states to deal with the cost of this problem.  It’s time to turn blue states into border towns, so that they experience the problem up close.  It’s time to share the burden if the federal government isn’t going to secure the border, and Democrat politicians are going to attract migrants with their open borders policies.  It’s easy to say that your state is a sanctuary state, until you actually have to deal with consequences.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 04:47:20 pm
Why has their tune changed MH?

County commissioner Keith Chatinover also voiced opposition to Cruz in a text message to The Times. “I would love Martha’s Vineyard to become a haven for new immigrants to this country, but Senator Cruz has no idea what he’s talking about regarding a ‘border crisis,’”
https://www.mvtimes.com/2021/10/20/cruz-bill-seeks-immigration-port-marthas-vineyard/

Or it just easy to make said proclamations when you’re not having to deal with the problem?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 05:09:09 pm
Disgusting behaviour

https://www.vice.com/en/article/akejez/ron-desantis-marthas-vineyard-migrants

Children were involved...


On the plus side, those kids don't have to experience living in Florida or Texas.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 05:24:47 pm
Hypocrisy thy name is Democrat.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 15, 2022, 05:32:18 pm
Washington EXAMINER 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 15, 2022, 05:33:06 pm
Why has their tune changed MH?

County commissioner Keith Chatinover also voiced opposition to Cruz in a text message to The Times. “I would love Martha’s Vineyard to become a haven for new immigrants to this country, but Senator Cruz has no idea what he’s talking about regarding a ‘border crisis,’”
https://www.mvtimes.com/2021/10/20/cruz-bill-seeks-immigration-port-marthas-vineyard/

Or it just easy to make said proclamations when you’re not having to deal with the problem?

It doesn't justify doing that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 05:35:22 pm
Some retards will say that flying migrants across the country and dumping them off on the locals is the same thing as sending unaccompanied minors to live with family or sponsors or moving adult detainees from one detention facility to another in order to avoid overcrowding at border sites (a practice that also took place under Trump), but no one should listen to those retards.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 05:49:29 pm
It’s time for “sanctuary” cities and states to start pulling their weight and paying their fair share.  It can’t be only a handful of states along the border taking the brunt of the problem.  The bill has come due, and this is a great example of what I’ve dubbed domestic chicken hawks.  They advocate for policies in which the consequences won’t be something they have to deal with.  Similar to the defund the police crowd.  Well, the paradigm has shifted, and those consequences are at their front door.  Cope and seethe I say.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 06:00:18 pm
Things are so bad in famous border state Florida that they had to go to Texas to find migrants for their human trafficking PR stunt.

Also hilarious (in a dark way) that Florida is full of Republican-voting gusanos who fled communist Cuba, but migrants from "communist (https://twitter.com/govrondesantis/status/1500631934468333571?lang=en)" Venezuela are getting used as political pawns by the manlet governor.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 15, 2022, 06:21:20 pm
If you remove your soul for a second this story is pretty humorous.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 15, 2022, 07:34:38 pm
If you remove your soul for a second this story is pretty humorous.
It’s funny regardless.  It’s comeuppance at its best.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 15, 2022, 08:17:33 pm
It’s funny regardless.  It’s comeuppance at its best.

Maybe not so funny if you are one of these migrants being used as disposable fodder for grandstanding politicians.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 15, 2022, 08:36:37 pm
Maybe not so funny if you are one of these migrants being used as disposable fodder for grandstanding politicians.

Republicans don’t consider them people.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 15, 2022, 09:21:24 pm
Maybe not so funny if you are one of these migrants being used as disposable fodder for grandstanding politicians.

Wealthy pigs...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on September 16, 2022, 12:48:16 pm
Things are so bad in famous border state Florida that they had to go to Texas to find migrants for their human trafficking PR stunt.
and the party of "small government" has the money to spend on such a stunt.

I wonder how the taxpayers of florida must feel knowing their tax money is being wasted that way.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 16, 2022, 04:00:43 pm
Yes, Texas is doing it to, and it’s about time.  Until these people in proclaimed “sanctuary states” and “sanctuary cities” understand the problem they’re creating, it’s never going to stop.  It shouldn’t up only left to border states to deal with the cost of this problem.  It’s time to turn blue states into border towns, so that they experience the problem up close.  It’s time to share the burden if the federal government isn’t going to secure the border, and Democrat politicians are going to attract migrants with their open borders policies.  It’s easy to say that your state is a sanctuary state, until you actually have to deal with consequences.

U.S. unauthorized immigrant population estimates by state
 (https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/interactives/u-s-unauthorized-immigrants-by-state/)

By raw numbers, 6 of the top 10 are blue states, by % of the population, 7 of the top 10 are blue states. Data is a little old, but it seems unlikely to me that Wyoming or the Dakotas have suddenly become migrant hotspots. So there goes another brainlessly parroted GOP talking point down the tubes.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 16, 2022, 07:17:41 pm
Bwaahaaaahaaa!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 16, 2022, 07:26:29 pm
Bwaahaaaahaaa!

(Attachment Link)

Get one of the staff at the care home to show you how to embed tweets.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 16, 2022, 07:28:12 pm
Bwaahaaaahaaa!

(Attachment Link)


Then the locals must be treating them really well. Unlike DeSantis.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 19, 2022, 12:19:50 pm
Quote
DeSantis has been adamant that the migrants were not misled. He claims that migrants were provided with a map showing the destination was Martha's Vineyard and describes the flights as "all voluntary." Appearing on Fox News on Sunday Morning, Florida Lt. Governor Jeanette Nunez (R) called allegations that the migrants were misled "categorically false."

Popular Information, however, has obtained a brochure that was provided to the migrants who ultimately agreed to the flights. It was provided to Popular Information by Lawyers for Civil Rights (LCR), a Boston-based legal organization that represents 30 of the migrants. The brochure says that migrants who arrive in Massachusetts will be eligible for numerous benefits, including "8 months cash assistance," "assistance with housing," "food," "clothing," "transportation to job interviews," "job training," "job placement," "registering children for school," "assistance applying for Social Security cards," and many other benefits.

None of this, however, is true.

link (https://popular.info/p/the-smoking-gun-in-marthas-vineyard)

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 19, 2022, 02:32:20 pm
So they didn't realize the Massachusetts governor is Republican? Good thing Trump is instituting the death penalty for human trafficking...with the power he has. Lol
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 04:30:36 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 04:31:24 pm
Unfortunately it was short lived as they quickly shipped the migrants elsewhere.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 19, 2022, 05:10:15 pm
(Attachment Link)

TFW not everyone is as racist as you are.

"They enriched us." Migrants’ 44-hour visit leaves indelible mark on Martha’s Vineyard
 (https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/17/us/marthas-vineyard-migrants-journey-desantis/index.html)

Unfortunately it was short lived as they quickly shipped the migrants elsewhere.

Yeah to a place where they'll be provided with legal services, health care, food, hygiene kits, and crisis counseling, which is better than being lied to and exploited by some dirtbag Republican coyote.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 09:26:12 pm
TFW not everyone is as racist as you are.

"They enriched us." Migrants’ 44-hour visit leaves indelible mark on Martha’s Vineyard
 (https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/17/us/marthas-vineyard-migrants-journey-desantis/index.html)

Yeah to a place where they'll be provided with legal services, health care, food, hygiene kits, and crisis counseling, which is better than being lied to and exploited by some dirtbag Republican coyote.
They get those kinds of services in border states as well, its just now blue states, especially the virtue signalling sanctuary states can start pitching in.  They can share in the cost and the burden of unlimited migration in which they help facilitate, and the federal government refuses to stop.  No more domestic chicken hawks!
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 09:31:18 pm
How is started for the domestic chicken hawk virtue signallers
[attachimg=1]

Vs how it’s going for the domestic chicken hawk virtue signallers.
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on September 19, 2022, 09:33:12 pm
Massachusetts has a Republican governor. His name is Charlie Baker. Are they a blue state because they aren't Trumpy enough?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 09:33:50 pm
See, as long as somebody else was taking care of the problem, they were fine with inviting tens of thousands of migrants across the border every month.  But once the consequences of their actions hit home, and the chickens came home to roost, they started singing a different tune, like all domestic chicken hawks.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 09:37:03 pm
Massachusetts has a Republican governor. His name is Charlie Baker. Are they a blue state because they aren't Trumpy enough?
Massachusetts is a sanctuary state, at least it was until the current governor recently won.  He hasn’t stated otherwise.  Regardless, most cities etc in Massachusetts are sanctuary cities and support unlimited endless migration.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 19, 2022, 09:42:57 pm
California is a blue state. It has the most foreign born immigrants.  New York is a blue state. It has the third most foreign born immigrants. Texas and Florida are #2 and #4.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 19, 2022, 09:51:30 pm
California is a blue state. It has the most foreign born immigrants.  New York is a blue state. It has the third most foreign born immigrants. Texas and Florida are #2 and #4.
And?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 19, 2022, 10:50:13 pm
And?

And the “blue states need to pitch in” line that you are parroting from FOX News like the good little ventriloquist’s dummy you are is horseshit.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 19, 2022, 10:55:47 pm
They get those kinds of services in border states as well, its just now blue states, especially the virtue signalling sanctuary states can start pitching in.  They can share in the cost and the burden of unlimited migration in which they help facilitate, and the federal government refuses to stop.  No more domestic chicken hawks!


Border states get billions of dollars from the federal government to deal with the border so, if fairness is the issue, blue states that already subsidize many of the failed red states should also get extra money and resources. But you don’t actually think about this stuff because you’re a stupid a$$hole who just ctrl-v's his opinions from other idiots.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 20, 2022, 05:14:25 pm
See, as long as somebody else was taking care of the problem, they were fine with inviting tens of thousands of migrants across the border every month.  But once the consequences of their actions hit home, and the chickens came home to roost, they started singing a different tune, like all domestic chicken hawks.

Oh? Are they renouncing sanctuary city status and demanding totally closed borders now? Nope.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2022, 06:15:27 pm
And?
California has a larger illegal immigrant population than any other state, (3 times as many as Florida)  and the highest percentage of its population (25% vs 6%, Texas is second at 15%) New York is the same as Florida at 6%. California has 24% of all the illegals in the US. You don't see California or New York shipping illegals to other states.

https://immigrationroad.com/resource/illegal-immigrants-by-state.php
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 20, 2022, 06:44:47 pm
California has a larger illegal immigrant population than any other state, (3 times as many as Florida)  and the highest percentage of its population (25% vs 6%, Texas is second at 15%) New York is the same as Florida at 6%. California has 24% of all the illegals in the US. You don't see California or New York shipping illegals to other states.

https://immigrationroad.com/resource/illegal-immigrants-by-state.php

25% of the population of California is illegal migrants?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 20, 2022, 07:08:48 pm
25% of the population of California is illegal migrants?

Here's the ridiculous thing that nobody talks about... when I was in CA we needed hep with some manual labour and all of the folks said "just get some Home Depot guys".  Basically illegals who hang out in the home depot parking lot waiting for work... everybody hires them and yet nobody likes illegals...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 20, 2022, 07:29:24 pm
Here's the ridiculous thing that nobody talks about... when I was in CA we needed hep with some manual labour and all of the folks said "just get some Home Depot guys".  Basically illegals who hang out in the home depot parking lot waiting for work... everybody hires them and yet nobody likes illegals...

Businesses love illegals.  You can pay them below minimum wage too!

Illegals have replaced slaves, but this time it's voluntary.  Except for the human trafficking.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 20, 2022, 08:14:51 pm
25% of the population of California is illegal migrants?

No 25% of “illegals” in the US live in California.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 20, 2022, 09:19:12 pm
No 25% of “illegals” in the US live in California.

But he said 24% of illegals live in CA
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2022, 09:37:05 pm
But he said 24% of illegals live in CA

I posted the link. Look for yourself.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 20, 2022, 10:16:05 pm
I posted the link. Look for yourself.

Ok so illegals make up 5.6% of Cali population (estimate).
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: wilber on September 20, 2022, 10:36:19 pm
Ok so illegals make up 5.6% of Cali population (estimate).

7%. I misread the chart. 24% of all illegals are in California, 7% in Florida, 16% in Texas.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 25, 2022, 08:58:21 am
MAGA Communism now...

https://compactmag.com/article/the-rise-of-maga-communism
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 25, 2022, 12:48:01 pm
MAGA Communism now...

https://compactmag.com/article/the-rise-of-maga-communism


MAGA is not a working class movement these guys are morons.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 25, 2022, 09:40:53 pm

MAGA is not a working class movement these guys are morons.

A lot of the working class are morons too who still support Trump.

Trump didn't have to suck up as much to the wealthy class, he himself is wealthy, popular, and gets a lot of free advertising.

He's been the only non-establishment POTUS in who knows how long.  Unfortunately he's a dumb loony dictator.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 26, 2022, 06:53:33 am
A country whose class consciousness is dormant might indeed be awoken by the likes of trump. Even if this is incorrect, It's interesting.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 26, 2022, 09:16:47 am
A country whose class consciousness is dormant might indeed be awoken by the likes of trump. Even if this is incorrect, It's interesting.

Again it depends on using a very narrow definition of "working class" that excludes anyone who isn't a non-college educated suburban white.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 26, 2022, 09:55:05 am
Again it depends on using a very narrow definition of "working class" that excludes anyone who isn't a non-college educated suburban white.

Interesting take but still seems apt to me... are public perceptions of working class valid even if they're tropes ?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 26, 2022, 10:02:54 am
Interesting take but still seems apt to me... are public perceptions of working class valid even if they're tropes ?

I feel like we've had this conversation before, but in the west, the term "working class" has lost most of its real meaning and is just about aesthetics now.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 26, 2022, 10:35:17 am
I feel like we've had this conversation before, but in the west, the term "working class" has lost most of its real meaning and is just about aesthetics now.

Fair enough ... and I think the left also doesn't know how to apply this view on modern working but... if that's what's left then maybe that is what we have.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on September 26, 2022, 11:28:49 am

MAGA is not a working class movement these guys are morons.
Complete and utter nonsense.  Democrats have abandoned the working class.  They’ve shifted toward Republicans over the last few years, as Democrats have become out of touch with working people.  They’re now essentially a party of white, college educated woke women.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 26, 2022, 11:59:47 am
Complete and utter nonsense.  Democrats have abandoned the working class.  They’ve shifted toward Republicans over the last few years, as Democrats have become out of touch with working people.  They’re now essentially a party of white, college educated woke women.

What are the 'concerns' of working class people and what should they be ?

I concur tat they are concerned about wokeness but I believe they should be more concerned about the replacement of the trickle down theory with the divine rights of the ruling class.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 26, 2022, 12:43:13 pm
Complete and utter nonsense.  Democrats have abandoned the working class.  They’ve shifted toward Republicans over the last few years, as Democrats have become out of touch with working people.  They’re now essentially a party of white, college educated woke women.

Wow, someone woke up extra stupid this fine Monday morning.

In 2020, 85% of voters who cast a ballot for Trump were White vs 61% for Biden. 92% of Black voters, 69% of Hispanics and 72% of Asian voters went for Biden. Income wise, 57% of Americans making less than $50K a year went for Biden while 54% of those making more than $100K went for Trump. Democrat voters are economically, ethnically and racially diverse. Republican voters are old, wealthy and white.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on September 26, 2022, 12:59:30 pm
Wow, someone woke up extra stupid this fine Monday morning.

In 2020, 85% of voters who cast a ballot for Trump were White vs 61% for Biden. 92% of Black voters, 69% of Hispanics and 72% of Asian voters went for Biden. Income wise, 57% of Americans making less than $50K a year went for Biden while 54% of those making more than $100K went for Trump. Democrat voters are economically, ethnically and racially diverse. Republican voters are old, wealthy and white.

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-273.html#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20real%20median%20earnings,and%20Table%20A%2D6).

Median Wages for Americans.

I stand corrected on this point.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 26, 2022, 02:03:19 pm
Well, with the midterms coming up, the House GOP finally released a platform and I gotta say it's surprisingly detailed and positive.

Just kidding, it's a package of vague promises and culture war sloganeering.

Quote
The “Commitment to America” outline, for example, assures voters that Republicans will “protect the lives of unborn children.” How? Perhaps by pursuing some kind of national abortion ban? They did not — and, more to the point, would not — include any details, well aware of the fact that most Americans support reproductive rights and rejected the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade.

GOP lawmakers also apparently intend to “save and strengthen” Social Security and Medicare. I’m sure that fared well in the party’s focus groups, but what does it mean? Will the social insurance programs be “saved and strengthened” by way of benefit cuts? Republicans don’t want to talk about it — because if they did, a whole lot of mainstream voters would run the other way.

The “Commitment to America” outline also lets us know that a far-right House GOP majority would “curb wasteful government spending,” without mentioning what spending the party considers “wasteful.” This was coupled with a promise of "pro-growth" tax policies, without any explanation of what that might entail or how many more breaks the party intends to throw at millionaires and billionaires.

As part of the same pitch, Republican leaders told the public today on the “Commitment to America” website: “[A]fter more than a year of crushing inflation, Democrats still have no plan to solve it.” Indifferent to the irony, the GOP’s own plan references some bumper sticker-style slogans, but it does not include a plan to address inflation.

The problem(s) with the Republicans’ new ‘Commitment to America’ (https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/problems-republicans-new-commitment-america-rcna49178)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on September 28, 2022, 10:01:38 am
In light of recent events this gave me a bit of a dry chuckle: Flights from Florida to Boston fill up as Hurricane Ian approaches (https://whdh.com/news/flights-from-florida-to-boston-fill-up-as-hurricane-ian-approaches/?preview=true&_thumbnail_id=1478993)

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 04, 2022, 09:05:34 am
I've been enjoying the Hershel Walker candidacy. He seems like the perfect GOP candidate. A pro-life funder of his girlfriends' abortions with other secret children all over the place that he lied about and neglected. He's awesome. ☺️
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 04, 2022, 09:35:14 am
I've been enjoying the Hershel Walker candidacy. He seems like the perfect GOP candidate. A pro-life funder of his girlfriends' abortions with other secret children all over the place that he lied about and neglected. He's awesome. ☺️
I'm enjoying the John Fetterman candidacy in Pennsylvania.  He's the Democrat that has trouble completing sentences, has a giant growth of some sort on his neck. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 04, 2022, 09:40:05 am
I'm enjoying the John Fetterman candidacy in Pennsylvania.  He's the Democrat that has trouble completing sentences, has a giant growth of some sort on his neck.

You like the puppy-murdering snake oil salesman better, you assclown?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 04, 2022, 09:43:18 am
I'm enjoying the John Fetterman candidacy in Pennsylvania.  He's the Democrat that has trouble completing sentences, has a giant growth of some sort on his neck.
Did your mother teach you to disparage people based on their illnesses? She must be very classy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 04, 2022, 09:57:57 am
Did your mother teach you to disparage people based on their illnesses? She must be very classy.
Only when they try to cover it up.  I also enjoyed the recent story of him chasing down a Black man with his shotgun when he thought the man was breaking the law.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 04, 2022, 10:30:41 am
I bet your facebook memes tell some great stories. But they never have receipts, like the one Herschel signed for his girlfriend's abortion.
But it's a good thing you're an incel. You'll never have such problems.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 04, 2022, 10:34:22 am
I bet your facebook memes tell some great stories. But they never have receipts, like the one Herschel signed for his girlfriend's abortion.
But it's a good thing you're an incel. You'll never have such problems.
Oh there’s receipts.  You just don’t care about them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 04, 2022, 10:50:05 am
Of course I care. Show me. lol
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 04, 2022, 11:07:25 am
Oh there’s receipts.  You just don’t care about them.

Dr Oz killed more than 300 dogs. (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/dr-ozs-animal-testing-experiments-shows-why-we-need-a-complete-ban-rcna50513)

Quote
On Monday, Jezebel reported that from 1989 to 2010, research by Dr. Mehmet Oz — the television personality and Republican Senate candidate in Pennsylvania — inflicted suffering on and killed over 300 dogs, 31 pigs and 661 rabbits and rodents. It was during Oz’s time as a principal investigator at a Columbia University lab.

I'm sure the people who claimed (falsely) that Dr. Fauci had been involved with experiments that tortured and killed dogs will be all over this, right?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 05, 2022, 01:40:58 pm
I've been enjoying the Hershel Walker candidacy. He seems like the perfect GOP candidate. A pro-life funder of his girlfriends' abortions with other secret children all over the place that he lied about and neglected. He's awesome. ☺️

Walker's son (well one of them) Christian has been running a grift as a "flamboyantly gay Black Republican" for awhile and just turned on Herschel (despite doing campaign events with him) which must mean that the campaign money is drying up.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 05, 2022, 01:48:53 pm
Dr Oz killed more than 300 dogs. (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/dr-ozs-animal-testing-experiments-shows-why-we-need-a-complete-ban-rcna50513)

I'm sure the people who claimed (falsely) that Dr. Fauci had been involved with experiments that tortured and killed dogs will be all over this, right?
Now do Dr. Fauci, you’re idol.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 05, 2022, 01:52:27 pm
Now do Dr. Fauci, you’re idol.

From the post you just quoted:

Quote
I'm sure the people who claimed (falsely) that Dr. Fauci had been involved with experiments that tortured and killed dogs will be all over this, right?

Learn to read, retard.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 05, 2022, 02:09:12 pm
From the post you just quoted:

Learn to read, retard.
He funded them.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 05, 2022, 02:17:04 pm
He funded them.

I think someone personally overseeing the slaughter of more than 300 dogs is worse than someone heading the organization that funded experiments that resulted in 78 dogs being euthanized.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 05, 2022, 02:31:11 pm
I think someone personally overseeing the slaughter of more than 300 dogs is worse than someone heading the organization that funded experiments that resulted in 78 dogs being euthanized.
Not when you find out what they did to the dogs. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 05, 2022, 03:11:08 pm
I will never vote for Fauci now that I heard that whataboutism.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 05, 2022, 03:12:33 pm
I will never vote for Fauci now that I heard that whataboutism.
It’s even worse than that, as you have no choice.  He’s an unelected bureaucrat.  Funding dangerous gain of function research, and literally torturing dogs.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 05, 2022, 04:02:49 pm
Not when you find out what they did to the dogs.

Was it worse than this?

Quote
Dell’Orto testified that a dog experimented on by Oz’s team experienced lethargy, vomiting, paralysis, and kidney failure, but wasn’t euthanized for a full two days. She alleged other truly horrifying examples of gratuitously cruel treatment of dogs, including at least one dog who was kept alive for a month for continued experimentation despite her unstable, painful condition, despite how data from her continued experimentation was deemed unusable. According to Dell’Orto, one Oz-led study resulted in a litter of puppies being killed by intracardiac injection with syringes of expired drugs inserted in their hearts without any sedation. Upon being killed, the puppies were allegedly left in a garbage bag with living puppies who were their littermates. Dell’Orto’s allegations, made in 2003 and 2004, are detailed in letters from PETA to the university and USDA. In an interview with Billy Penn last month, she acknowledged PETA “is not a reliable source of information,” but said the organization’s letters honestly reflected what she told the organization and provided documentation for.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 05, 2022, 05:11:58 pm
Was it worse than this?
Sooty bro, you lost me at PETA.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 05, 2022, 10:23:43 pm
Sooty bro, you lost me at PETA.

PETA wasn’t the source you fuckin idiot, it was obviously the one thing the petrified tired that passed for you brain recognized out of that bunch of words you couldn’t read.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 11, 2022, 02:47:34 pm
The Democrats are running another demented person.  This time even the mainstream media can see it.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 11, 2022, 02:58:47 pm
Leave it to the GOP to nominate even less electable candidates, eh?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 11, 2022, 03:01:45 pm
Leave it to the GOP to nominate even less electable candidates, eh?
I disagree.  Especially in this case.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 11, 2022, 03:12:41 pm
The snake oil salesmen who doesn't live in the state? If he were running as a Democrat and it were 10 years ago, you would have been shrieking about his Muslim heritage like he was bin Laden's right-hand man. Weird how you've been programmed not to worry about Islam anymore, eh?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 11, 2022, 03:36:41 pm
The snake oil salesmen who doesn't live in the state? If he were running as a Democrat and it were 10 years ago, you would have been shrieking about his Muslim heritage like he was bin Laden's right-hand man. Weird how you've been programmed not to worry about Islam anymore, eh?
Anything but policy huh? 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 11, 2022, 04:12:49 pm
Since when are you capable of discussing policy?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 13, 2022, 09:58:10 am
Anything but policy huh?

What part of a guy recovering from a stroke using accommodation technology is about policy here?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 13, 2022, 12:27:41 pm
What part of a guy recovering from a stroke using accommodation technology is about policy here?
He’s obviously not well, and his health is a legitimate issue.  He has trouble comprehending questions, let alone answering them.  But after supporting Biden, you guys must be used to supporting politicians with brain damage.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 13, 2022, 01:58:39 pm
He’s obviously not well, and his health is a legitimate issue.  He has trouble comprehending questions, let alone answering them. But after supporting Biden, you guys must be used to supporting politicians with brain damage.

Trump supporter says what? Guy had a stroke, but there's nothing to suggest he's suffering any actual cognitive impairment or that his recovery isn't on track. And even if his brains were literally leaking out his ears, he'd still be a better choice than that scumbag grifter Dr. Oz.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 13, 2022, 02:17:02 pm
Trump supporter says what? Guy had a stroke, but there's nothing to suggest he's suffering any actual cognitive impairment or that his recovery isn't on track. And even if his brains were literally leaking out his ears, he'd still be a better choice than that scumbag grifter Dr. Oz.
Right, so voters are to just assume that he’s going to recover?  I would write in my vote, not voting for Oz or the brain dead one.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 13, 2022, 02:21:14 pm
Right, so voters are to just assume that he’s going to recover?  I would write in my vote, not voting for Oz or the brain dead one.

Great, but I don't think losers from London, Ontario get to vote in PA though.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 19, 2022, 02:19:46 pm
"Conservative Christian" GOP candidate who said he wanted to "protect our children from progressives" arrested for masturbating outside a preschool.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-gop-candidate-arrested-allegedly-masturbating-truck_n_635007e2e4b03e8038da457f
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 19, 2022, 02:47:09 pm
"Conservative Christian" GOP candidate who said he wanted to "protect our children from progressives" arrested for masturbating outside a preschool.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/arizona-gop-candidate-arrested-allegedly-masturbating-truck_n_635007e2e4b03e8038da457f

All their accusations are confessions.

I have a feeling it won't be the cranking off by a preschool thing that does him in, but his choice of, uh, inspiration material.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ffcncp3X0AEN-du?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 19, 2022, 06:36:24 pm
Well at least the opposion has a good quote for a TV election ad:

Police report:  “I immediately became alarmed as I saw [Kaufman] had his pants down mid-thigh and was exposed showing his fully erect **** ****. [Kaufman] was manipulating his genitals in a masturbatory manner.”
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 25, 2022, 05:02:37 pm
I wonder why these types gravitate toward the GOP?

Florida GOP Paid Thousands To Far-Right Charlottesville Attendee
 (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-gop-paid-thousands-to-far-right-charlottesville-attendee-christopher-monzon_n_6358180fe4b0e376dc1c5244)

Quote
The Florida Republican Party paid thousands of dollars over the summer to a far-right activist who attended the white nationalist “Unite the Right” rally in 2017 and later charged at a crowd of anti-racist demonstrators with a Confederate flag.

Christopher Monzon was paid more than $10,000 by the party between June and September, federal campaign finance records show.
...
Like Monzon, some white supremacists who marched in Charlottesville eventually found entrée to GOP circles. In Washington state, James Allsup was elected to a county Republican committee (and was later pushed out). In Idaho, a county Republican committee endorsed Dave Reilly, who once said “all Jews are dangerous,” for a local school board seat. And earlier this year, white nationalist Nick Fuentes hosted a conference that drew prominent Republican speakers including Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.).
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 25, 2022, 05:36:29 pm
This is the kind of grift you get with Democrats.  113 billion dollars for a 300 mile train line!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 25, 2022, 06:56:37 pm
This is the kind of grift you get with Democrats.  113 billion dollars for a 300 mile train line!

(Attachment Link)


You’d never see that in a red state (because red states don’t even bother investing in infrastructure which is why so many are decaying hell holes).

Meanwhile China has built 34,000 km of high speed rail in just over a decade so clearly communism is the way to go.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 25, 2022, 07:06:11 pm

You’d never see that in a red state (because red states don’t even bother investing in infrastructure which is why so many are decaying hell holes).

Meanwhile China has built 34,000 km of high speed rail in just over a decade so clearly communism is the way to go.
Actually there is a mass migration out of blue states into red states.  Particularly from Illinois, New York and California to red states like Florida and Texas! 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 25, 2022, 08:11:52 pm
Actually there is a mass migration out of blue states into red states.  Particularly from Illinois, New York and California to red states like Florida and Texas! 😂

Yeah because blue states are expensive because (spoiler) lots of rich people want to live in those places and are pricing everyone else out. It’s also funny that you’re crowing about red states adding so many Democrats…
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 26, 2022, 10:12:18 am
Did anyone see the Fetterman/Oz debate.  Fetterman was a man utter disaster, incoherent as I’ve ever seen anybody on a debate stage. 

https://youtu.be/PMQQnxgdVoA
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 26, 2022, 10:23:47 am
Did anyone see the Fetterman/Oz debate.  Fetterman was a man utter disaster, incoherent as I’ve ever seen anybody on a debate stage. 

Dude had a stroke and he's still more coherent than Trump.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 26, 2022, 10:32:38 am
Dude had a stroke and he's still more coherent than Trump.
But what about Trump! 😂
Fack off.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 26, 2022, 10:40:30 am
But what about Trump! 😂
Fack off.

Ok how about Oz and his line that abortion should be between a woman, her doctor and local elected officials? Should we get the mayor and council in the room? Maybe the dogcatcher?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 26, 2022, 07:08:28 pm
I have a hard time believing anyone who supports Herschel Walker truly believes people who are recovering from a stroke are unfit because they might be hard to understand at times.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 26, 2022, 09:00:01 pm
I have a hard time believing anyone who supports Herschel Walker truly believes people who are recovering from a stroke are unfit because they might be hard to understand at times.
It’s not that Fetterman is hard to understand at times, it’s that he’s obviously suffered some brain damage, and has real cognitive decline.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 26, 2022, 10:16:24 pm
It’s not that Fetterman is hard to understand at times, it’s that he’s obviously suffered some brain damage, and has real cognitive decline.

This is the most projection anyone has ever projected lmao
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 11:43:34 am
'member when Biden gave his speech that made Shiddy was cry and poop his pants because "Biden is actually instigating violence against Republicans now by calling them fascist?"

'member when Shiddy was pissing all over about the crazy guy who wanted to kill Brett Kavanaugh?

Well, some nut broke into Nancy Pelosi's house looking for her and beat her husband with a hammer (https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/28/politics/paul-pelosi-attack/index.html).

Quote
Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, was attacked with a hammer at the couple’s home in San Francisco by a male assailant early Friday morning, law enforcement sources tell CNN.

The assailant who attacked Paul Pelosi was searching for the speaker of the House, according to a source briefed on the attack. The intruder confronted the speaker’s husband in their San Francisco home shouting “Where is Nancy, where is Nancy?” according to the source.

Any guesses as to what the attacker's ideology will turn out to be?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 12:14:08 pm
'member when Biden gave his speech that made Shiddy was cry and poop his pants because "Biden is actually instigating violence against Republicans now by calling them fascist?"

'member when Shiddy was pissing all over about the crazy guy who wanted to kill Brett Kavanaugh?

Well, some nut broke into Nancy Pelosi's house looking for her and beat her husband with a hammer (https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/28/politics/paul-pelosi-attack/index.html).

Any guesses as to what the attacker's ideology will turn out to be?
Probably another example of the great bail reform and defund the police nonsense.  It's nice that the chickens are coming home to roost now.  Looks like the domestic chicken hawks aren't safe from the ramifications of their own shi**y policies.  I for one am glad.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 12:22:50 pm
Probably another example of the great bail reform and defund the police nonsense. 

Probably not.

Quote
It's nice that the chickens are coming home to roost now.  Looks like the domestic chicken hawks aren't safe from the ramifications of their own shi**y policies.  I for one am glad.

You ever get tired of posting the exact same **** or is it just that you're too stupid to think of anything new?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 12:45:28 pm
Probably not.

You ever get tired of posting the exact same **** or is it just that you're too stupid to think of anything new?
I post it because it’s a big problem.  I’m sorry that’s so inconvenient for you, but I don’t care.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 12:51:53 pm
I post it because it’s a big problem.  I’m sorry that’s so inconvenient for you, but I don’t care.

No, you use retarded slogans because you're too stupid to support your arguments with evidence. I’m sorry that’s so inconvenient for you, but I don’t care.

It's also funny that you're super happy to see someone from the Other Side get threatened (again, after crying like a baby about "Biden inciting violence" etc) but you're too much of a pu$$y to actually own that so you have to make up some stories about defund or whatever. Me, if someone broke into Tucker Carlson's house and caved his head in with a ball peen hammer while shouting revolutionary slogans I'd be hooting and hollering.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 01:21:09 pm
I think it's safe to say Shady is hooting and hollering too. He's just too chicken to admit it.

I wonder what attempted Capitol bomber Marjorie Taylor Green was referring to yesterday when she tweeted "Just wait until tomorrow."

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1585795679733297152?t=UKLDeTTshxGZz7dFY2Hf-A&s=19
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 01:33:50 pm
No, you use retarded slogans because you're too stupid to support your arguments with evidence. I’m sorry that’s so inconvenient for you, but I don’t care.

It's also funny that you're super happy to see someone from the Other Side get threatened (again, after crying like a baby about "Biden inciting violence" etc) but you're too much of a pu$$y to actually own that so you have to make up some stories about defund or whatever. Me, if someone broke into Tucker Carlson's house and caved his head in with a ball peen hammer while shouting revolutionary slogans I'd be hooting and hollering.
Pelosi shoulda called a social worker, right? 😂
Honestly I kinda hope that while the attacker was smashing Pelosi’ shear with a hammer, he was yelling defund the police!  Defund the police!  It would’ve been poetic justice.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 01:39:51 pm
Like when you guys were attacking the police with flagpoles and fire extinguishers?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 01:40:56 pm
How about when you called them fascists for investigating your orange god's blatant crimes?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 02:00:51 pm
Here's MTG inciting a mob to kill Pelosi.
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1512084114454679554?t=cMEzXGSiKQDRwcocv6O5sw&s=19

Cue shady's "...but whatabout Trump's treason." 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 02:28:30 pm
Pelosi shoulda called a social worker, right? 😂

No, MAGAtards should get the wall.

Quote
Honestly I kinda hope that while the attacker was smashing Pelosi’ shear with a hammer, he was yelling defund the police!  Defund the police!  It would’ve been poetic justice.

You are honestly too dumb to let live if you think NANCY FUCKIN PELOSI is a defund supporter lmao.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 02:37:41 pm
I think it's safe to say Shady is hooting and hollering too. He's just too chicken to admit it.

I wonder what attempted Capitol bomber Marjorie Taylor Green was referring to yesterday when she tweeted "Just wait until tomorrow."

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1585795679733297152?t=UKLDeTTshxGZz7dFY2Hf-A&s=19

I think she was probably talking about her hope that Musk taking over Twitter would mean all the Nazis and losers who've been banned can come back
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 28, 2022, 03:13:23 pm
They started attacking political figures in the 60s too.  Culture War sure makes people do violent and radical things.  Anger, fear, frustration....
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 03:16:43 pm
They started attacking political figures in the 60s too.  Culture War sure makes people do violent and radical things.  Anger, fear, frustration....

By "they" you mean the CIA/FBI, right?

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 03:57:44 pm
By "they" you mean the CIA/FBI, right?
Rand Paul's neighbour is CIA/FBI?  Who knew!  LOL
Justice Kavanaugh's attacker is CIA/FBI?  Who knew! LOL
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 04:05:52 pm
Rand Paul's neighbour is CIA/FBI?  Who knew!  LOL
Justice Kavanaugh's attacker is CIA/FBI?  Who knew! LOL

Oh those occurred in the 1960s? LOL, you illiterate moron.

Also Rand Paul's neighbour didn't kick his ass over politics (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kentucky-politics-assault-idUSKCN1PP0CA) and Kavanaugh wasn't attacked. Your victimhood kink is really something.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 28, 2022, 04:07:38 pm
Quote
The man who allegedly attacked U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband early Friday posted memes and conspiracy theories on Facebook about COVID-19 vaccines, the 2020 election and the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol, and an acquaintance told CNN that he seemed "out of touch with reality."
...
Last year, David DePape posted links on his Facebook page to multiple videos produced by My Pillow CEO Mike Lindell falsely alleging that the 2020 election was stolen. Other posts included transphobic images and linked to websites claiming COVID-19 vaccines were deadly. "The death rates being promoted are what ever 'THEY' want to be promoted as the death rate," one post read.

DePape also posted links to YouTube videos with titles like "Democrat FARCE Commission to Investigate January 6th Capitol Riot COLLAPSES in Congress!!!" and "Global Elites Plan To Take Control Of YOUR Money! (Revealed)"

Two days after former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty of killing George Floyd, DePape wrote that the trial was "a modern lynching," falsely indicating that Floyd died of a drug overdose.

He also posted content about the "Great Reset"-- the sprawling conspiracy theory that global elites are using coronavirus to usher in a new world order in which they gain more power and oppress the masses. And he complained that politicians making promises to try to win votes "are offering you bribes in exchange for your further enslavement."

link (https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/alleged-paul-pelosi-attacker-posted-multiple-conspiracy-theories-1.6129699)

So a run-of-the-mill Republican, then.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 05:18:40 pm
link (https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/alleged-paul-pelosi-attacker-posted-multiple-conspiracy-theories-1.6129699)

So a run-of-the-mill Republican, then.
Nice try.  He’s an illegal immigrant, with a criminal record that should’ve been deported.  But Dan Francisco is a sanctuary city, so chickens coming home to roost.  Apparently he was also a nudist.  San Francisco just needs more social workers! 😂

Hey Paul Pelosi, how’d you like the sanctuary of the hammer to your head?  Stop supporting your shitty woke policies.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 05:40:46 pm
I love how you have so little self-respect that you have to make up BS like he's an illegal immigrant. Thank you for creating some humour from a sad situation. I enjoy it when you embarrass yourself. 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 06:03:36 pm
I love how you have so little self-respect that you have to make up BS like he's an illegal immigrant. Thank you for creating some humour from a sad situation. I enjoy it when you embarrass yourself. 😂
It’s not BS, it’s true.  He was also a hemp jeweler, whatever that means.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 06:06:33 pm
😂😂😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 28, 2022, 06:45:20 pm
It’s not BS, it’s true.
You are the weakest person on the internet. You would feel better about yourself if you didn't feel the need to be so pathetic. 😆
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 28, 2022, 07:33:54 pm
You are the weakest person on the internet. You would feel better about yourself if you didn't feel the need to be so pathetic. 😆
Wow, you guys really have become quite unhinged.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 12:09:04 am
Nice try.  He’s an illegal immigrant, with a criminal record that should’ve been deported.  But Dan Francisco is a sanctuary city, so chickens coming home to roost.  Apparently he was also a nudist.  San Francisco just needs more social workers! 😂

Hey Paul Pelosi, how’d you like the sanctuary of the hammer to your head?  Stop supporting your shitty woke policies.

Also, he shares 99% of the same political beliefs as you and the median Republican voter. I'm not sure if that says more about him or you.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 12:10:01 am
Wow, you guys really have become quite unhinged.

*after multiple of posts celebrating the attempted murder of someone by a political fellow traveller* wow you guys are becoming unhinged
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on October 29, 2022, 10:24:51 am
I love how you have so little self-respect that you have to make up BS like he's an illegal immigrant.
Not only that...

Depape had been in the U.S. for well over a decade before the attack. If he really was an illegal immigrant who was known to pose a threat to the U.S. population, then why wasn't he deported, by say, the guy who was president from 2017-2021? You know, the guy who made it a focus of his administration to protect people from supposedly dangerous immigrants? Who was that guy again?

Oh yeah he was a republican.

Well, perhaps if Trump had managed to finish building his border wall then DePape wouldn't have been a problem. No, wait, he didn't cross the U.S. mexico border, did he.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 10:33:13 am
Not only that...

Depape had been in the U.S. for well over a decade before the attack. If he really was an illegal immigrant who was known to pose a threat to the U.S. population, then why wasn't he deported, by say, the guy who was president from 2017-2021? You know, the guy who made it a focus of his administration to protect people from supposedly dangerous immigrants? Who was that guy again?

Oh yeah he was a republican.

Well, perhaps if Trump had managed to finish building his border wall then DePape wouldn't have been a problem. No, wait, he didn't cross the U.S. mexico border, did he.
He wasn’t deported because California is a sanctuary state, and San Francisco is a sanctuary city.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 10:34:23 am
Also, he shares 99% of the same political beliefs as you and the median Republican voter. I'm not sure if that says more about him or you.
Really?  He’s for balanced budgets?  Lower taxes?  An all of the above energy policy?  Who knew? 😂😂😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 10:38:16 am
*after multiple of posts celebrating the attempted murder of someone by a political fellow traveller* wow you guys are becoming unhinged
The satire still flys well above your head I see!  What’s funny is you getting bent out of shape when somebody acts exactly like you do in this forum.  Hey, do us all a favour and shoot yourself in the head with a gun.  Literally.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 11:00:46 am
He wasn’t deported because California is a sanctuary state, and San Francisco is a sanctuary city.
Cite? And no pictures of your ass, please.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 11:01:26 am
The satire still flys well above your head I see!  What’s funny is you getting bent out of shape when somebody acts exactly like you do in this forum.  Hey, do us all a favour and shoot yourself in the head with a gun.  Literally.
You're too stupid to pull off satire.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 11:06:39 am
Really?  He’s for balanced budgets?  Lower taxes?  An all of the above energy policy?  Who knew? 😂😂😂

Covid 19 conspiracies? Check.
2020 election conspiracies? Check.
Jan. 6 conspiracies? Check.
Gun control conspiracies? Check.
Anti-woke? Check.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:10:13 am
Covid 19 conspiracies? Check.
2020 election conspiracies? Check.
Jan. 6 conspiracies? Check.
Gun control conspiracies? Check.
Anti-woke? Check.
And what were the politics of the person that attacked Rand Paul.  What were the politics of the person that took a gun to a Republican baseball game and started shooting them?  What exactly is your point, or do you have one?  You’re all hypocrite cherry picking political hacks who want to try and use the actions of a criminal crazy person to try and silence your political opponents.  Like good little McCarthyist authoritarians.  Go f**k yourselves.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 11:11:06 am
The satire still flys well above your head I see!

*posts his earnest beliefs" see this is satire.

Quote
What’s funny is you getting bent out of shape when somebody acts exactly like you do in this forum.

I'm not getting bent out of shape, I'm enjoying you being all pro-political violence after all the bedwetting you were doing when scary Biden said mean things about Republicans against a spooky backdrop. Not that you're smart enough to recognize your own hypocisry despite constantly crying about it when anyone else does it.

Quote
  Hey, do us all a favour and shoot yourself in the head with a gun.  Literally.

See, even your insults are unimaginative and derivative. "Shoot yourself in the head with a gun" c'mon, old man, that's pathetic.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 11:14:09 am
And what were the politics of the person that attacked Rand Paul. 

I think they were "stop leaving your garbage against my fence you sonofabitch."

Quote
What exactly is your point, or do you have one?  You’re all hypocrite cherry picking political hacks who want to try and use the actions of a criminal crazy person to try and silence your political opponents.  Like good little McCarthyist authoritarians.  Go f**k yourselves.

My point is this "criminal crazy person's" beliefs are mainstream in the Republican party and among certain pathetic losers from London Ontario. That should prompt some introspection, but we know that's an ability you do not possess.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:14:25 am
Covid 19 conspiracies? Check.
2020 election conspiracies? Check.
Jan. 6 conspiracies? Check.
Gun control conspiracies? Check.
Anti-woke? Check.
What were the politics of the man that tried to kill Justice Kavanaugh?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:16:52 am
I think they were "stop leaving your garbage against my fence you sonofabitch."

My point is this "criminal crazy person's" beliefs are mainstream in the Republican party and among certain pathetic losers from London Ontario. That should prompt some introspection, but we know that's an ability you do not possess.
And the criminal crazy people that have tried to attack and kill Republicans is mainstream beliefs in the Democrat, woke party.  It’s people like you that have cause a huge increase in the number of police that have been ambushed and killed due to your irresponsible rhetoric.  Stop casting stones while sitting in your sh*tty glass house.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:17:30 am
*posts his earnest beliefs" see this is satire.

I'm not getting bent out of shape, I'm enjoying you being all pro-political violence after all the bedwetting you were doing when scary Biden said mean things about Republicans against a spooky backdrop. Not that you're smart enough to recognize your own hypocisry despite constantly crying about it when anyone else does it.

See, even your insults are unimaginative and derivative. "Shoot yourself in the head with a gun" c'mon, old man, that's pathetic.
I don’t care about unimaginative.  Just do it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 12:04:03 pm
And what were the politics of the person that attacked Rand Paul.  What were the politics of the person that took a gun to a Republican baseball game and started shooting them?  What exactly is your point, or do you have one?  You’re all hypocrite cherry picking political hacks who want to try and use the actions of a criminal crazy person to try and silence your political opponents.  Like good little McCarthyist authoritarians.  Go f**k yourselves.
Rand Paul got punched in the face by a neighbour because he is an a$$hole. It had nothing to do with politics. I'm sure you can relate.
But how are you being silenced, victim-boy? You are free to cheer on political violence and we are free to laugh at you for being stupid and pathetic.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 12:34:18 pm
Rand Paul got punched in the face by a neighbour because he is an a$$hole. It had nothing to do with politics. I'm sure you can relate.
But how are you being silenced, victim-boy? You are free to cheer on political violence and we are free to laugh at you for being stupid and pathetic.
Pelosi got a hammer to the head because he is also an a**hole.  He drinks and drives abs use his wife for insider trading.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 12:35:49 pm
Good to know though, take note everybody.  Blubber Slimy and his ilk support violence against politicians if their “a**holes”.  Sweet, I can’t wait until Trudeau takes a hammer to the head then.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 12:45:20 pm
You don't lose a little self-respect every time you throw **** at the wall because you're losing?

You don't think your silence in response to the question of how you are being silenced is deafening?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 01:18:01 pm
And the criminal crazy people that have tried to attack and kill Republicans is mainstream beliefs in the Democrat, woke party.  It’s people like you that have cause a huge increase in the number of police that have been ambushed and killed due to your irresponsible rhetoric.  Stop casting stones while sitting in your sh*tty glass house.

This is all horseshit of course. Right wing extremists are the number one terrorist threat. There’s no evidence of any link between “rhetoric” and attacks on police (unless you count anti-vax rhetoric that has led to the deaths of hundreds of pigs). And even if this wasn’t a giant false equivalence, I wouldn’t care because I think right wing nuts should be subject to violence because they are inherently violent and thus it’s self defence.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 01:18:38 pm
I don’t care about unimaginative.  Just do it.

No I have too much to live for and, unlike you, would be missed.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 01:20:32 pm
What were the politics of the man that tried to kill Justice Kavanaugh?

Nobody tried to kill Boozy McRapist. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 01:21:18 pm
Pelosi got a hammer to the head because he is also an a**hole.  He drinks and drives abs use his wife for insider trading.

That’s mostly true but that’s not why he was attacked.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 04:17:17 pm
Good to know though, take note everybody.  Blubber Slimy and his ilk support violence against politicians if their “a**holes”.  Sweet, I can’t wait until Trudeau takes a hammer to the head then.
Rand Paul is such an assh0le, shortly after the assault yesterday, he said Nancy Pelosi's daughter also deserves to be assaulted. I condemn violence but am unsurprised and cheered when you guys get punched in the face.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 04:36:50 pm
Rand Paul is such an assh0le, shortly after the assault yesterday, he said Nancy Pelosi's daughter also deserves to be assaulted. I condemn violence but am unsurprised and cheered when you guys get punched in the face.
Nancy Pelosi’s daughter posted that Rand Paul’s neighbour was right, shorty after the attack.  She deserved to have her fathers head caved in with a hammer.  It’s poetic justice.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 04:38:11 pm
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on October 29, 2022, 04:54:22 pm
Nancy Pelosi’s daughter posted that Rand Paul’s neighbour was right, shorty after the attack.  She deserved to have her fathers head caved in with a hammer.  It’s poetic justice.
So then, by your violent Trumper logic, Rand Paul deserves to have his family beaten with a hammer because he said Pelosi's daughter should be beaten. And so do you. (Fortunately you're an impotent incel and will never have a family.) 😆
Logic has never, ever, ever been your strong suit.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 05:09:09 pm
So then, by your violent Trumper logic, Rand Paul deserves to have his family beaten with a hammer because he said Pelosi's daughter should be beaten. And so do you. (Fortunately you're an impotent incel and will never have a family.) 😆
Logic has never, ever, ever been your strong suit.
He never said anything like that, but she did.  It’s poetic justice that her dads head was smashed in with a hammer.  Perhaps she’s finally learned her lesson.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 05:12:39 pm
Nancy Pelosi’s daughter posted that Rand Paul’s neighbour was right, shorty after the attack.  She deserved to have her fathers head caved in with a hammer.  It’s poetic justice.

Trolling is a really fine art and stuff like this just takes everyone out of the experience of arguing with a retarded person and shows that it's really about a retarded person who is desperate for attention. This is called trying too hard, like when you post the n-word on Twitter.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 08:49:18 pm
Trolling is a really fine art and stuff like this just takes everyone out of the experience of arguing with a retarded person and shows that it's really about a retarded person who is desperate for attention. This is called trying too hard, like when you post the n-word on Twitter.
You still alive?  Fack.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 10:30:58 pm
You still alive?  Fack.

Where would you be if you didn’t have me to steal bits from and giving you the attention you never got from your parents? You should really start calling me Dad.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 10:36:10 pm
Where would you be if you didn’t have me to steal bits from and giving you the attention you never got from your parents? You should really start calling me Dad.
Dude just kill yourself already.  You have no redeeming qualities.  You don’t contribute at all to society.  You don’t produce anything.  You just ruin society and ruin this country.  Do us all a favour and get rid of yourself.  You’re ass cancer. Stick your head in a microwave, turn it on high, and set the timer for 30 minutes, ass cancer.  I’m done with you and bags of s**t like you.  Die already.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 10:38:29 pm
Dude just kill yourself already.  You have no redeeming qualities.  You don’t contribute at all to society.  You don’t produce anything.  You just ruin society and ruin this country.  Do us all a favour and get rid of yourself.  You’re ass cancer. Stick your head in a microwave, turn it on high, and set the timer for 30 minutes, ass cancer.  I’m done with you and bags of s**t like you.  Die already.

That’s no way to talk to your father.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:09:34 pm
That’s no way to talk to your father.
Listen ass cancer, I told you, I’m done with you, so stop replying to my posts. Just kill yourself already and shut up.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 11:35:56 pm
Listen ass cancer, I told you, I’m done with you, so stop replying to my posts. Just kill yourself already and shut up.

You keep this up you can kiss your allowance goodbye young man.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 29, 2022, 11:48:25 pm
You keep this up you can kiss your allowance goodbye young man.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 29, 2022, 11:50:45 pm
(Attachment Link)

You’re grounded little man. No tendies for you tonight.

Lol I just realized it’s like 1 am in the crap London and this loser is fuming online. Imagine how many n-bombs and f-slurs he’s been dropping on Twitter right now. What a sad little buddy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on October 30, 2022, 12:12:48 am
You’re grounded little man. No tendies for you tonight.

Lol I just realized it’s like 1 am in the crap London and this loser is fuming online. Imagine how many n-bombs and f-slurs he’s been dropping on Twitter right now. What a sad little buddy.
Hey ass cancer,

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 30, 2022, 12:14:53 am
Hey ass cancer,

(Attachment Link)

Keep rage posting boomer memes this is great stuff.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 31, 2022, 12:44:46 pm
I'm not sure how you even maintain a functioning society when large swaths of it think like this (https://twitter.com/BridgetPhetasy/status/1586745027136524291?s=20&t=FY3wdsNpzFqYOQkUI8twgA).

Thousands of likes and retweets, hundreds of positive replies to a completely circular formulation/admission of mental illness. Deranged.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on October 31, 2022, 04:49:11 pm
DOJ criminal filing on Pelosi's attacker (https://t.co/Ol8tF8nKwt) has been released and lays out what happened in detail.

Basically, dude broke in with the intent to take Nancy Pelosi captive, surprised her husband who tried to talk his way out of it and was able to make a 9-1-1 call in the bathroom and then, when the cops came and Pelosi tried to answer the door, Mr. Nutjob bashed him with the hammer he used to break in.

Will this dissuade the conspiracy freaks and Republicans from spinning this into something else that what it is (a politically motivated attack)? LMAO of course not.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on October 31, 2022, 05:23:12 pm
DOJ criminal filing on Pelosi's attacker (https://t.co/Ol8tF8nKwt) has been released and lays out what happened in detail.

Basically, dude broke in with the intent to take Nancy Pelosi captive, surprised her husband who tried to talk his way out of it and was able to make a 9-1-1 call in the bathroom and then, when the cops came and Pelosi tried to answer the door, Mr. Nutjob bashed him with the hammer he used to break in.

Will this dissuade the conspiracy freaks and Republicans from spinning this into something else that what it is (a politically motivated attack)? LMAO of course not.

Maybe Mr Pelosi paid the guy to smash him in the face with a hammer?

Just kidding.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 04, 2022, 05:19:09 pm
Is it time for Democrats to tone down their rhetoric?

A gunshot was fired into a family home of a Republican House candidate in North Carolina last month
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/04/politics/pat-harrigan-home-north-carolina-shooting/index.html

This is on the heels of Republican candidate for governor of New York also having his home shot at.
It’s also on the heels of a far left winger attempting to assassinate a Supreme Court justice.
And not that long ago a far left winger attack and broke the ribs of Rand Paul.
And not that long before that, a far left winger went to a Republican soft ball game with a gun and shot at Republican house members.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 04, 2022, 05:20:56 pm
You're just full of misinformation. I think the Facebook memes rotted what little brain you had
But it's pretty transparent you feel defensive about cheering on the attack on Pelosi's husband. Lying might make you feel better about it, but I doubt it
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 04, 2022, 05:29:07 pm
You're just full of misinformation. I think the Facebook memes rotted what little brain you had
But it's pretty transparent you feel defensive about cheering on the attack on Pelosi's husband. Lying might make you feel better about it, but I doubt it
None of what I stated is a lie.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 04, 2022, 06:00:03 pm
Okay. For starters, where did you get the information that Rand Paul's neighbour is a far leftwinger? Did you know that reality-based sources were clear that the dispute was over yard waste?
Always a question whether you're a craven liar, a gullible idiot...or both. 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 04, 2022, 06:18:26 pm
None of what I stated is a lie.

Actually a few of them are.  Rand Paul got into a dispute over gardening with his neighbour which was the cause of the attack.

The New York politician that had the shooting outside his home well the shooting had nothing to do with him or his family.

You're getting fed false info.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 04, 2022, 06:24:49 pm
Actually a few of them are.  Rand Paul got into a dispute over gardening with his neighbour which was the cause of the attack.

The New York politician that had the shooting outside his home well the shooting had nothing to do with him or his family.

You're getting fed false info.
But we don’t know the extent of how the Democrats rhetoric influenced these situations.  That being said, the shots fired into the home of a Republican on Oct 18, and the man who brought a gun to a Republican softball game are still legitimate stories.  Much more so than anything on the other side. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 04, 2022, 07:07:37 pm
But we don’t know the extent of how the Democrats rhetoric influenced these situations.
And yet you spread wishful thinking as fact. In the reality-based world, we call that lying.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 04, 2022, 07:26:24 pm
And yet you spread wishful thinking as fact. In the reality-based world, we call that lying.
Just start toning down your rhetoric.  It’s leading unstable people to attack Republicans.  You and you ilk have already contributed to a huge increase in police ambushes and killings thanks to your irresponsible and hateful anti-police rhetoric.  It’s like if the officer wasn’t at January 6th, f**k’em.  Say they’re racist, and evil and targeting people for the fun of it.  Stereotype all of them the same way.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 04, 2022, 07:39:41 pm
So you admit you just completely made up that Rand Paul's neighbour was far left and, now that you're caught in outright lies, you figure pretending you're a defender of civil rhetoric will help you save face? That might work if other people were as stupid as you.
And if you didn't just say Nancy Pelosi's husband deserved to be attacked because of Democrat policies  😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 05, 2022, 11:40:25 am
But we don’t know the extent of how the Democrats rhetoric influenced these situations.  That being said, the shots fired into the home of a Republican on Oct 18, and the man who brought a gun to a Republican softball game are still legitimate stories.  Much more so than anything on the other side.

Yeah but the other stuff were lies
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 05, 2022, 04:10:08 pm
Is it time for Democrats to tone down their rhetoric?

A gunshot was fired into a family home of a Republican House candidate in North Carolina last month
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/11/04/politics/pat-harrigan-home-north-carolina-shooting/index.html

100 per cent guarantee this shot was discharged from inside the house.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 05, 2022, 04:12:18 pm
Yeah but the other stuff were lies

So is the stuff about a gunshot being fired into a republican candidates home.

Quote
At least one gunshot was fired last month into the North Carolina home of a US House candidate's parents, injuring no one, according to police and the candidate, who referenced the incident on Twitter Thursday.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on November 05, 2022, 04:52:05 pm
So is the stuff about a gunshot being fired into a republican candidates home.

True, but his kids were in the house at the time apparently.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 05, 2022, 08:17:36 pm
True, but his kids were in the house at the time apparently.

What's more likely: someone tried to carry out an act of political violence by firing exactly one bullet at a house that doesn't even belong to the candidate or PawPaw was showing the grandkids his new Glock and it went off. I mean, it's North Carolina, I can only assume bullets are whizzing around all over the place as a matter of course. The idea that this can be called an act of political violence on par with Pelosi's attack when there's literally no evidence of that is about as retarded as claiming the guy who DDT'd Ron Paul through his garbage bins was a far-left winger.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 05, 2022, 08:33:45 pm
We need sensible hammer control legislation! 😂

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 08:02:43 am
Would "toning down rhetoric" include making up conspiracy theories and retarded memes to distract from your use of political violence to get what you want?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 10:09:13 am
Fetterman tells a crowd he celebrates the demise of Roe v Wade! 😂
But there’s no cognitive decline huh?

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1589049599754653699?s=46&t=X_d2U4BERx1UeeGuPKd-xQ
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 10:30:59 am
He had a stroke. What's your excuse?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 11:16:30 am
He had a stroke. What's your excuse?
What’s yours?
I’m not running for office.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 01:10:06 pm
What’s yours?
I’m not running for office.
Did you ever see yourself 10 years ago shilling for a Muslim candidate? Back then your talking points had you thinking they were as much of a threat to the world as trans people are now. 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 06, 2022, 01:41:53 pm
He had a stroke. What's your excuse?

Also he clearly said “Oz celebrates the end of Row v Wade.”

Never believe anything our resident retard says, especially when his source is a deranged blogger.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 02:37:06 pm
Did you ever see yourself 10 years ago shilling for a Muslim candidate? Back then your talking points had you thinking they were as much of a threat to the world as trans people are now. 😂
Did you ever see yourself shilling for a demented candidate?  This is your second one in as many years.  Congratulations! 😂
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 03:24:00 pm
You don't think the long-term effects of Trump's adderall-snorting addiction have manifested?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 03:37:31 pm
You don't think the long-term effects of Trump's adderall-snorting addiction have manifested?
I don’t know, but I hope he doesn’t run in 2024.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 03:49:38 pm
You'll be shilling for him like a loyal MAGA soldier when he wins the nomination.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 06, 2022, 04:11:20 pm
Did you ever see yourself shilling for a demented candidate?  This is your second one in as many years.  Congratulations! 😂

Did you ever see yourself spending this much time advertising your mental retardation to a bunch of total strangers?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 04:16:18 pm
You'll be shilling for him like a loyal MAGA soldier when he wins the nomination.
You’ll still be shilling for demented Joe Biden whether Trump is the Republican nominee or not.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 05:04:15 pm
Demented guy who can't admit defeat and would rather take down democracy versus sane guy with a weird eye job that makes him look demented. Easy choice.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 06, 2022, 05:57:03 pm
Another violent far left thug I'm sure:

Miami Trump supporter convicted of shooting at men after argument over Biden flag on Jet Ski
 (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article268249617.html#storylink=cpy)

Quote
A Miami jury on Thursday convicted a Donald Trump supporter who was accused of shooting at two men in a dust-up that started over one of them flying a “Ridin’ with Biden” flag on his Jet Ski on Election Day 2020. The six-person jury deliberated less than two hours in convicting Eduardo Acosta, 39, on charges of attempted murder, aggravated assault with a firearm and armed robbery. He faces up to life in prison, with a mandatory minimum of at least 20 years, when he is sentenced on Dec. 16.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 06:01:18 pm
Demented guy who can't admit defeat and would rather take down democracy versus sane guy with a weird eye job that makes him look demented. Easy choice.
I won’t be supporting Trump, but regardless, Joe Biden IS demented.  At this point it’s pretty obvious.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 06:22:31 pm
I won’t be supporting Trump, but regardless, Joe Biden IS demented.  At this point it’s pretty obvious.
Only if all your exposure to him has been filtered by pro-Putin far-right blogs.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 06:57:55 pm
Only if all your exposure to him has been filtered by pro-Putin far-right blogs.
This was painful to watch.  He should be retired, fishing and enjoying time with his grandchildren.

https://youtu.be/87aPi_qwL1k
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 06, 2022, 07:20:26 pm
Looked windy and most septugenarians don't have the dexterity to reach behind themselves to grab a blowing jacket.
But who was the subtitle writer who decided to call the ground outside "the floor"? They must be demented too. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 06, 2022, 07:48:45 pm
Looked windy and most septugenarians don't have the dexterity to reach behind themselves to grab a blowing jacket.
But who was the subtitle writer who decided to call the ground outside "the floor"? They must be demented too.
I agree, they’re both demented.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 06, 2022, 08:02:41 pm
Trump called DeSantis “Ron Desanctimonius” at a rally and it’s really sad to see him lose his fastball like that.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 08, 2022, 02:20:04 pm
Insane openly fascist rhetoric here (https://twitter.com/abughazalehkat/status/1589815215524556800) from the de facto leader of the GOP but Biden gave a speech against a red backdrop so it's impossible to say if this is bad.

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 08, 2022, 02:38:48 pm
Insane openly fascist rhetoric here (https://twitter.com/abughazalehkat/status/1589815215524556800) from the de facto leader of the GOP but Biden gave a speech against a red backdrop so it's impossible to say if this is bad.

Politics will soon be a bygone thing anyway...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 08, 2022, 02:48:52 pm
Politics will soon be a bygone thing anyway...

wut
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 08, 2022, 03:24:49 pm
wut

When Great Leader wins... when the Repubs win governorships they will install loyalists in audit positions and that's it....
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 08, 2022, 03:38:59 pm
When Great Leader wins... when the Repubs win governorships they will install loyalists in audit positions and that's it....

That's democracy you're talking about not politics.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 08, 2022, 03:43:40 pm
When Great Leader wins... when the Repubs win governorships they will install loyalists in audit positions and that's it....
Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 08, 2022, 03:46:14 pm
Just because you believe anything the facebook memes tell you doesn't mean conspiracies don't exist. There is no secret they wish to install anti-democratic Trump loyalists in key positions. They don't even deny it.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 08, 2022, 03:52:43 pm
Just because you believe anything the facebook memes tell you doesn't mean conspiracies don't exist. There is no secret they wish to install anti-democratic Trump loyalists in key positions. They don't even deny it.
There definitely are conspiracy theories.  See the Russia collusion hoax, Christopher Steele, the Clinton campaign, and the FBI.  See the censoring of the Hunter Biden story. 
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 08, 2022, 03:53:57 pm
That's democracy you're talking about not politics.

Politics will end pretty quickly too.  How much politics is there in N. Korea ?

"Topic for today: How excellent is dear leader Trump ?  Supremely excellent or historically excellent ?"
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 08, 2022, 03:54:42 pm
Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Yes it is.  Unlike 9/11 inside job or Biden stole the election the evidence is in the open and real.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 08, 2022, 04:09:31 pm
Yes it is.  Unlike 9/11 inside job or Biden stole the election the evidence is in the open and real.

Yeah I think some folks need to bone up on the distinction between conspiracy theory and conspiracy.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Based Shady on November 08, 2022, 04:46:14 pm
Yes it is.  Unlike 9/11 inside job or Biden stole the election the evidence is in the open and real.
What about Russian collusion or Russia stole the election?
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: MH on November 08, 2022, 06:07:31 pm
What about Russian collusion or Russia stole the election?

Broad topic...
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 08, 2022, 06:14:25 pm
What about Russian collusion or Russia stole the election?
There is indisputable evidence they interfered and Trump's campaign manager has admitted to being a paid Russian asset. Plus they had some questionable meetings with Russian officials.
Also, Putin still has Trump's plss tape.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Bubbermiley on November 08, 2022, 06:24:59 pm
Broad topic...
Which broads do you want to talk about?

I'll see myself out.
Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: segnosaur on November 09, 2022, 03:06:00 am
There is indisputable evidence they interfered and Trump's campaign manager has admitted to being a paid Russian asset. Plus they had some questionable meetings with Russian officials.
Hey you can't blame shady for being skeptical of the claims of Russian election interference.

After all, look at this incredibly biased source...

From: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election
The nearly 1,000-page report...from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf. It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and says other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid...

I mean, the republicans were all about helping Clinton, weren't they?

And its not like the Russians would ever admit to election interference, would they?

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-international/ap-putins-chef-admits-to-interfering-in-u-s-elections/
Kremlin-connected entrepreneur Yevgeny Prigozhin admitted Monday that he had interfered in U.S. elections and would continue to do so — confirming for the first time the accusations that he has rejected for years. “Gentlemen, we have interfered, are interfering and will interfere. Carefully, precisely, surgically and in our own way, as we know how to do,” Prigozhin boasted...

Title: Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
Post by: Black Dog on November 16, 2022, 10:53:52 am
Nutjob shoots his neighbour because he thought he was a Democrat (https://www.journal-news.com/crime/court-docs-man-charged-in-okeana-homicide-admitted-to-shooting-neighbor/R4FEIMGN6BEBVPN2DBWI4XCGR4/)

Quote
A Morgan Twp. man has by indicted for the deadly shooting of his neighbor Saturday in Okeana.

Austin Gene Combs, 26, was indicted Thursday by a Butler County grand jury for aggravated murder with a gun specification.

He was booked on Saturday night into the Butler County Jail, where he remains held in lieu of a $950,000 bond set Monday during a video arraignment at the Butler County Historic Courthouse.

Anthony Lee King, 43, died of multiple gunshot wounds, and his death was ruled a homicide, according to the Butler County Coroner’s Office.

Combs admitted to shooting and killing King in the yard of his Chapel Road residence, according to court documents.

The victim’s wife then tells the dispatcher they were cutting grass and working in the yard when she came inside to let the dog out. That’s when she heard gunshots, she said.
...
“I look in the backyard and that man is walking away from my husband, and my husband is on the ground,” the woman says “He has come over like four times confronting my husband because he thought he was a Democrat. Why, why … Please, I don’t understand.”