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Federal Politics => Canadian Politics => Topic started by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 15, 2020, 09:19:37 pm


Title: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 15, 2020, 09:19:37 pm
O'Toole says that residential schools were made to "provide education" to indigenous people. 

What he ignores is that they were to be educated that their culture, languages and people were simply savages.  The schools were meant to destroy their culture and assimilate them into the colonist's version of Canada.  Even Harper admitted these things in Canada's apology to First Nations people. 

O'Toole on the other hand, when the cameras are off, thinks they were set up for a noble reason and that to say otherwise, you're a dumb lefty.

Quote
“Most of the lefty radicals are also the dumbest people at your university,” O’Toole said at the outset of the video.

https://globalnews.ca/video/7524601/erin-otoole-says-residential-schools-created-to-provide-education-but-became-horrible

What a disgusting attitude.  At least the crackpots in the CPC aren't hiding their true feelings in the shadows and only come out when they don't think the cameras are rolling.  O'Toole will tell his supporters that he's with them....  while pretending to hold mainstream Canadian views.  Apparently, to acknowledge that residential schools were a bad thing is to be a  dumb woke lefty...   in my view, acknowledging that residential schools were set up to destroy indigenous culture is patently obvious and clearly a mainstream view that looks at facts and evidence to draw this conclusion.


Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: wilber on December 15, 2020, 11:29:23 pm
O'Toole says that residential schools were made to "provide education" to indigenous people. 

What he ignores is that they were to be educated that their culture, languages and people were simply savages.  The schools were meant to destroy their culture and assimilate them into the colonist's version of Canada.  Even Harper admitted these things in Canada's apology to First Nations people. 

O'Toole on the other hand, when the cameras are off, thinks they were set up for a noble reason and that to say otherwise, you're a dumb lefty.

https://globalnews.ca/video/7524601/erin-otoole-says-residential-schools-created-to-provide-education-but-became-horrible

What a disgusting attitude.  At least the crackpots in the CPC aren't hiding their true feelings in the shadows and only come out when they don't think the cameras are rolling.  O'Toole will tell his supporters that he's with them....  while pretending to hold mainstream Canadian views.  Apparently, to acknowledge that residential schools were a bad thing is to be a  dumb woke lefty...   in my view, acknowledging that residential schools were set up to destroy indigenous culture is patently obvious and clearly a mainstream view that looks at facts and evidence to draw this conclusion.

Sure he took a political shot but was what he said about the schools inaccurate?
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 12:22:28 am
Sure he took a political shot but was what he said about the schools inaccurate?

yes
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: BC_cheque on December 16, 2020, 01:46:24 am
Sure he took a political shot but was what he said about the schools inaccurate?

The schools were as noble and educational as the man who beats his wife to teach her a lesson about not burning dinner.
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 07:29:38 am
The schools were as noble and educational as the man who beats his wife to teach her a lesson about not burning dinner.

That’s right. He also thinks he’s doing what’s best for her. It’s a paternalistic attitude that has no place in the now.
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 08:53:33 am
The Beaverton to the rescue, as usual:

Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 09:06:03 am
The schools were as noble and educational as the man who beats his wife to teach her a lesson about not burning dinner.

He said they were terrible. I’m also sure the people who started them thought they were doing them a favour by erasing their culture.
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 09:20:31 am
http://
yes

Well, were any schools started under PET or Chrétien? That’s a question, I don’t know.
Title: Re: O'Toole, CPC and Residential Schools
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 11:17:23 am
He said they were terrible. I’m also sure the people who started them thought they were doing them a favour by erasing their culture.

Yeah, they sure did.  And the fact that the schools were about erasing culture, front and centre, should never be downplayed by anyone, especially not an MP and the leader of the opposition.

Downplaying the reasons for the schools also downplays indigenous people’s experiences at the hands of these “teachers”. 

“The fact is, that if you wish to educate those children you must separate them from their parents during the time they are being educated. If you leave them in the family they may know how to read and write, but they still remain savages, whereas by separating them in the way proposed, they acquire the habits and tastes — it is to be hoped only the good tastes — of civilized people.”
- Langevin, Public Works Commissioner speech in the House of Commons
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 12:22:22 pm
Yep
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:23:28 pm
Yep
It's sad that telling the truth makes people so unhappy.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 12:29:15 pm
Here’s a good take on O’Toole’s disturbing opinions of residential schools:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7525232/erin-otoole-residential-schools/amp/
Quote
History, and human decency, tells us that residential schools represent some of the darkest days in our Canadian history. Aboriginal children were taken from their parents and their culture and forcibly indoctrinated into Christian beliefs.

Yet, O’Toole spins a quite different picture. He asserts that Ryerson and the other architects of this racist residential school system only meant to try to provide education to indigenous children.

That’s like saying that southern plantation owners were only offering enslaved black people employment opportunities in North America.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 16, 2020, 12:43:59 pm
Here’s a good take on O’Toole’s disturbing opinions of residential schools:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7525232/erin-otoole-residential-schools/amp/
His take is completely accurate.  They were meant to be places of education, but ended up being something very different.  How is this even controversial? 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 12:52:04 pm
His take is completely accurate.  They were meant to be places of education, but ended up being something very different.  How is this even controversial?

They were meant to be places to strip away the culture of indigenous kids by removing them from their parents.

I guess that can be classified as an “education”....  if you’re rather sick in the head.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 01:17:07 pm
Here’s a good take on O’Toole’s disturbing opinions of residential schools:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7525232/erin-otoole-residential-schools/amp/

It was without a doubt a political cheap shot. My question is, was what he said factually accurate?

The people who started these schools thought they were doing the right thing, what they became and what was done to these kids by many of the people running the schools is another matter.

We judge these people through eyes 150 years later. No doubt people 150 years from now will sanctimoniously judge the things we say and do according to their standards. I doubt we will measure up.

The first residential schools were instituted a mere 47 years after slavery was abolished in the British Empire. Racism was fashionable at the time, the Empire was at its height. These were people of their time acting according to the conventions of their time. As abhorrent as we find these things now, it doesn't make them bad people.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 02:21:55 pm
It was without a doubt a political cheap shot. My question is, was what he said factually accurate?

The people who started these schools thought they were doing the right thing, what they became and what was done to these kids by many of the people running the schools is another matter.

We judge these people through eyes 150 years later. No doubt people 150 years from now will sanctimoniously judge the things we say and do according to their standards. I doubt we will measure up.

The first residential schools were instituted a mere 47 years after slavery was abolished in the British Empire. Racism was fashionable at the time, the Empire was at its height. These were people of their time acting according to the conventions of their time. As abhorrent as we find these things now, it doesn't make them bad people.

You’re simply wrong.  They were not created just for education.  They were made to destroy indigenous culture, which cause irreparable harm.  It doesn’t do any good whatsoever to try and sympathize with the colonizers.  It just makes him look like an awful person with backwards views.  Canada was wrong then and it’s wrong now.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 02:52:36 pm
You’re simply wrong.  They were not created just for education.  They were made to destroy indigenous culture, which cause irreparable harm.  It doesn’t do any good whatsoever to try and sympathize with the colonizers.  It just makes him look like an awful person with backwards views.  Canada was wrong then and it’s wrong now.

You assume they had the same idea of education as we do. Sure it was wrong but they really believed these kids would be better off being immersed in western ways.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 03:06:13 pm
Complete nonsense.  That’s what they became. But that wasn’t the intention of the schools from what I’ve read.  Don’t be so offended when a politician speaks the truth.  I guess I can’t blame you, you’re used to Trudeau’s double speak.  But anything to distract the public from Junior’s failures.

Technically, they were to provide an education, but that education was specifically designed to "civilize" indigenous children by destroying their culture, language and community ties.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 03:11:23 pm
It was without a doubt a political cheap shot. My question is, was what he said factually accurate?

The people who started these schools thought they were doing the right thing, what they became and what was done to these kids by many of the people running the schools is another matter.

We judge these people through eyes 150 years later. No doubt people 150 years from now will sanctimoniously judge the things we say and do according to their standards. I doubt we will measure up.

The first residential schools were instituted a mere 47 years after slavery was abolished in the British Empire. Racism was fashionable at the time, the Empire was at its height. These were people of their time acting according to the conventions of their time. As abhorrent as we find these things now, it doesn't make them bad people.


We judge people by their actions, not by their intentions or **** up conceptions of right or wrong.


Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 03:14:49 pm

We judge people by their actions, not by their intentions or **** up conceptions of right or wrong.

No, you judge them by your conceptions of right or wrong.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 03:17:16 pm
No, you judge them by your conceptions of right or wrong.

As far as I know, starving, beating and molesting kids have been considered Bad Things for a very long time, so I'm not sure we're talking about some newfangled set of standards here.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 03:21:27 pm
As I said above, O'Tool was technically correct about the intent of the residential schools, though the concept of education there is completely divorced from what we would associate with the term normally. But the most egregious part of his diatribe was the part where he was going on about the fact that Liberal prime ministers opened more residential schools than Conservatives, which is just as meaningless a factoid as the Republicans being the party that ended slavery in the U.S. the GOPification of the CPC continues.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 03:48:53 pm
As far as I know, starving, beating and molesting kids have been considered Bad Things for a very long time, so I'm not sure we're talking about some newfangled set of standards here.

I don’t think they were back then either. I also don’t think that was the intent when they were established. What I really blame them for is lack of oversight and turning a blind eye to abuses but that went on long after they were established and all parties were guilty.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on December 16, 2020, 03:58:07 pm
You assume they had the same idea of education as we do. Sure it was wrong but they really believed these kids would be better off being immersed in western ways.
They possessed ancient knowledge nearly thousands of years old about why doing unto others as they'd have done to them was so important. What they believe doesn't matter compared to what they knew. They would have known it was wrong during the first minute of the first step of the process in the distress of kids being separated from their parents on the beach prior to disappearing onto a boat.

You seem to be assuming human beings had no idea what inhumanity meant back then.  I suspect Neanderthals had a better idea of what inhumanity meant.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 03:58:48 pm
I don’t think they were back then either. I also don’t think that was the intent when they were established. What I really blame them for is lack of oversight and turning a blind eye to abuses but that went on long after they were established and all parties were guilty.

The abuse was an inevitable byproduct of the school's intended purpose and organization.

But even if you want to tell yourself the people who set these monstrosities up had good intentions: who gives a ****?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on December 16, 2020, 04:03:49 pm
It was without a doubt a political cheap shot. My question is, was what he said factually accurate?

The people who started these schools thought they were doing the right thing, what they became and what was done to these kids by many of the people running the schools is another matter.

We judge these people through eyes 150 years later. No doubt people 150 years from now will sanctimoniously judge the things we say and do according to their standards. I doubt we will measure up.

The first residential schools were instituted a mere 47 years after slavery was abolished in the British Empire. Racism was fashionable at the time, the Empire was at its height. These were people of their time acting according to the conventions of their time. As abhorrent as we find these things now, it doesn't make them bad people.

To say their heart was in the right place is offensive.  It diminishes, excuses and tries to justify the horrors that took place.

We would never say the abusive husband was just trying to teach wifely duties by assaulting her and he didn't know better because in those days it was ok to hit your wife.  We are rightfully aghast. 

Same goes for residential schools, there is no they were awful 'but' anything.  They were awful.  Period.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 04:07:24 pm
I am the product of a couple of people who weren't even born in Canada and made their way to this country from a foreign land across the pond. Nobody tried to wrest me from their grasp growing up or beat the **** out of me if I attempted to do the Highland Fling. Why not?, simply because we are/were pasty white.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 04:14:36 pm
Sure it was wrong ....

If you’re O’Toole, you should stop there.

The rest is an attempt to justify atrocities. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 04:20:46 pm
To say their heart was in the right place is offensive.  It diminishes, excuses and tries to justify the horrors that took place.

We would never say the abusive husband was just trying to teach wifely duties by assaulting her and he didn't know better because in those days it was ok to hit your wife.  We are rightfully aghast. 

Same goes for residential schools, there is no they were awful 'but' anything.  They were awful.  Period.

I'm saying they had different standards. You want to judge them from a different age and perspective. The idea of the schools was a product of the age, what happened in them was terrible by any standard. The abuse in those schools spanned many decades and many governments. O'Toole using it as a political talking point was bullshit, Liberals and Conservatives share the blame for letting it go on for so long.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 04:22:46 pm
To say their heart was in the right place is offensive.  It diminishes, excuses and tries to justify the horrors that took place.

This part is important.  Well said.   

It also dismisses the opinions of people opposed to what they did, which there were.  So to say hat no one knew it was wrong is BS.

If they would have asked the parents of the children, they could have told them exactly how wrong it was to do what they were doing.

Wilber Posts as if it was a universal view that the children should be stolen from parents and “educated” out of their culture.  It wasn’t.  So people DID know it was wrong to do this.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on December 16, 2020, 04:32:14 pm
It's sad that telling the truth makes people so unhappy.
His take is completely accurate.  They were meant to be places of education, but ended up being something very different.  How is this even controversial?

member Shady, O'Fool has just taken a do-over... how about you?

(https://i.imgur.com/ZXRFkqv.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 04:35:31 pm
O'Toole says that residential schools were made to "provide education" to indigenous people. 

What he ignores is that they were to be educated that their culture, languages and people were simply savages.  The schools were meant to destroy their culture and assimilate them into the colonist's version of Canada.  Even Harper admitted these things in Canada's apology to First Nations people. 

O'Toole on the other hand, when the cameras are off, thinks they were set up for a noble reason and that to say otherwise, you're a dumb lefty.

https://globalnews.ca/video/7524601/erin-otoole-says-residential-schools-created-to-provide-education-but-became-horrible

What a disgusting attitude.  At least the crackpots in the CPC aren't hiding their true feelings in the shadows and only come out when they don't think the cameras are rolling.  O'Toole will tell his supporters that he's with them....  while pretending to hold mainstream Canadian views.  Apparently, to acknowledge that residential schools were a bad thing is to be a  dumb woke lefty...   in my view, acknowledging that residential schools were set up to destroy indigenous culture is patently obvious and clearly a mainstream view that looks at facts and evidence to draw this conclusion.

Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 04:48:10 pm
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

You don't see your obvious contradiction, "good intentions" but then" a disaster of a policy"? The intentions were simply racism from the get go.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 04:48:33 pm
O’Toole now says the exact opposite of what he said to those young conservative-wannabes...

Quote
"In my comments to Ryerson students, I said that the residential school system was intended to try and 'provide education.' It was not. The system was intended to remove children from the influence of their homes, families, traditions and cultures," O'Toole said.

Were you wrong too Wilber, or do you stand by what O’Toole now says is wrong?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/o-toole-walks-back-words-on-residential-schools-amid-backlash-1.5233782
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 04:49:29 pm
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

O’Toole just said the exact opposite....   that he was wrong.

What say you now?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 04:56:43 pm
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong. The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 04:58:57 pm
Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.

Apparently, they had “good intentions”...   

They say this with a straight face too....    as if cultural genocide was a good intention....
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:02:10 pm
You’re simply wrong.  They were not created just for education.  They were made to destroy indigenous culture, which cause irreparable harm.  It doesn’t do any good whatsoever to try and sympathize with the colonizers.  It just makes him look like an awful person with backwards views.  Canada was wrong then and it’s wrong now.

The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 05:04:01 pm
The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.

He certainly contradicted himself in a big hurry. Which side of his coin would you say was not wrong?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:04:06 pm
Apparently, they had “good intentions”...   

They say this with a straight face too....    as if cultural genocide was a good intention....

I'd be hard pressed to think of many evils that weren't done by people who thought they had good intentions. There's a whole damn saying about where that gets you!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:04:22 pm
As far as I know, starving, beating and molesting kids have been considered Bad Things for a very long time, so I'm not sure we're talking about some newfangled set of standards here.

Obviously.  But I don't think Sir John A thought to himself "We need a program to help these natives by starving, beating, and molesting them".
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 05:04:26 pm
The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.

O’Toole said they were set up to educate them.  This is untrue.  Wrong.  Bull-shite.  That wasn’t why they were created.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:06:59 pm
As I said above, O'Tool was technically correct about the intent of the residential schools, though the concept of education there is completely divorced from what we would associate with the term normally. But the most egregious part of his diatribe was the part where he was going on about the fact that Liberal prime ministers opened more residential schools than Conservatives, which is just as meaningless a factoid as the Republicans being the party that ended slavery in the U.S. the GOPification of the CPC continues.

His point was that people complain about things named after Sir John A and Ryerson but don't ask to have Pierre Trudeau's name removed from things.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 05:07:30 pm
There was an educational poster created to help people with views like Graham and Wilber are espousing.  To help “educate” people like that.  Don’t worry Graham...  no one is going to come take you away from mom’s basement..

Quote
The students’ experiences of residential schools were not all bad. Different people had differing experiences. Many dedicated, good people worked in the system. The system itself however was designed “to educate & colonize a people against their will,” as the missionary Hugh McKay admitted in 1903. The policy of forced assimilation had many Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal critics, but in each case the critics were silenced. A good example is the missionary E.F. Wilson, who came into conflict with the church over his criticism of forced assimilation and his promotion of Aboriginal cultures, languages and political autonomy. In short, not everyone believed the schools were promoting good policy.
http://www.ahf.ca/downloads/misconceptions.pdf
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:10:56 pm
O’Toole just said the exact opposite....   that he was wrong.

What say you now?

It's both of what he said before and now.  Both are true.  He originally said they were trying to educate them.  That's true.  They just did it in a horrible way.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:11:33 pm
Obviously.  But I don't think Sir John A thought to himself "We need a program to help these natives by starving, beating, and molesting them".

It's unclear to me what methods they figured would be used to achieve the goal of "kill the Indian within" if not the ones that were actually employed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:14:00 pm
O’Toole said they were set up to educate them.  This is untrue.  Wrong.  Bull-shite.  That wasn’t why they were created.

Of course it was.  It was crappy education.  It was to teach them the "western ways" while stripping all their culture from them so they could succeed socioeconomically like western people were.  It was a really stupid and horrible policy.  Plus all the abuse.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:15:14 pm
His point was that people complain about things named after Sir John A and Ryerson but don't ask to have Pierre Trudeau's name removed from things.

I'd be ok with that.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 05:16:13 pm
It's unclear to me what methods they figured would be used to achieve the goal of "kill the Indian within" if not the ones that were actually employed.

So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:18:43 pm
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???

The goal was to wipe out their culture and force them into compliance. I doubt JAM would have cared much about how that goal was achieved.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:19:12 pm
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth. This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.

What kind of education were they supposed to get Shady?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 05:20:06 pm
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???

Beating them for speaking their Native tongue was.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2020, 05:21:20 pm
Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.
I believe the prevailing idea of the time was that white colonialism had arrived and wasn't going anywhere, so these people had to adapt to the new culture or perish. The schools were intended to facilitate that adaptation. It didn't work out so well, but I don't think the original intention was evil beyond the inherent evil of colonialism, which we are generally still advancing and exploiting and enjoying. It's still not going anywhere, even among "decolonialists."
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 05:23:21 pm
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth.  This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.

Which of his contradictory statements on the subject is "the truth" to you today shady boy?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2020, 05:23:34 pm
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth.  This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.
Speaking "the truth" while ignoring the larger reality, which is something "conservatives " are good at these days.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:25:00 pm
I believe the prevailing idea of the time was that white colonialism had arrived and wasn't going anywhere, so these people had to adapt to the new culture or perish. The schools were intended to facilitate that adaptation. It didn't work out so well, but I don't think the original intention was evil beyond the inherent evil of colonialism, which we are generally still advancing and exploiting and enjoying. It's still not going anywhere, even among "decolonialists."

No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt." If helping them adapt by teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic, that goal could have achieved that by having schools on reserve just like in other communities and allowed children to stay with their families. but JAM rejected that idea because he felt that would simply create "a savage who can read and write” as he told the House of Commons.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2020, 05:31:38 pm
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???
No, I don't think it was. Pretty much all schools beat the **** out of kids. I got the strap from several principals and vice principals. Mr. Syko had a cut-off goalie stick he used as a paddle and made you touch your toes in front of the class. Mr. McBain was banging a student and everyone knew. There's an article on Mr. Smith in this week's Winnipeg Free Press and how he and fellow teacher Graham James always tried to touch the boys. It was a different time in that regard, but we still "colonialize" everyone in this country.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:34:29 pm
I wonder what Shady's reaction would be if Jagmeet Singh said something about Stalin or Mao's "good intentions" ha ha just kidding I know exactly what he'd say.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 05:36:47 pm
No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt." If helping them adapt by teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic, that goal could have achieved that by having schools on reserve just like in other communities and allowed children to stay with their families. but JAM rejected that idea because he felt that would simply create "a savage who can read and write” as he told the House of Commons.

So what about all the governments that came after JAM, what did they do. Laurier was PM for 15 years after JAM and is regarded as one of the greatest PM's ever. He didn't do anything to change it. JAM gets all the heat for residential schools but PM after PM from both parties did nothing.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2020, 05:37:33 pm
No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt."
Their culture was based on a system of communal lands and sustainable hunting. That was over and it wasn't coming back, and they thought they needed help to learn the new ways so they could move forward and not be left behind. I don't think they saw themselves as killing their culture because their culture was already killed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:42:21 pm
So what about all the governments that came after JAM, what did they do. Laurier was PM for 15 years after JAM and is regarded as one of the greatest PM's ever. He didn't do anything to change it. JAM gets all the heat for residential schools but PM after PM from both parties did nothing.

**** them too.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 05:43:13 pm
Tommy Douglas had nothing to say on residential schools and he also said homosexuality was a mental illness. He was voted The Greatest Canadian.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:45:07 pm
Their culture was based on a system of communal lands and sustainable hunting. That was over and it wasn't coming back, and they thought they needed help to learn the new ways so they could move forward and not be left behind. I don't think they saw themselves as killing their culture because their culture was already killed.

I get what you're trying to say, but you're wrong on this. The residential schools was of a piece with other deliberate policies designed to subjugate and destroy the indigenous population like the reserve system, Indian agents, the pass system and deliberate starvation (all of which were crafted by the same architects).
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 16, 2020, 05:47:40 pm
Tommy Douglas had nothing to say on residential schools and he also said homosexuality was a mental illness. He was voted The Greatest Canadian.

It's one thing to hold beliefs that were of their time, but are wrong by contemporary standards, quite another to hold beliefs and enact policies that destroy uncountable lives.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 05:51:34 pm
It's one thing to hold beliefs that were of their time, but are wrong by contemporary standards, quite another to hold beliefs and enact policies that destroy uncountable lives.

So you don't hold Douglas accountable for the beliefs of his time but you do hold the people responsible for the schools accountable for the beliefs of their time. Nice double standard.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on December 16, 2020, 06:28:21 pm
I get what you're trying to say, but you're wrong on this. The residential schools was of a piece with other deliberate policies designed to subjugate and destroy the indigenous population like the reserve system, Indian agents, the pass system and deliberate starvation (all of which were crafted by the same architects).
Yes, otherwise known as colonialism. But the residential schools were established after the lands were divvied up to white people as private property. Indigenous peoples were already subjugated. South of us, in places like Minnesota, they were seen as wild hunter-gatherers who were incompatible with white culture and they were being exterminated,  even with bounties on their scalps. I think the cultural genocide was seen as a more palatable alternative to the real genocide going on, and that it was felt to be necessary because the previous economy that sustained their culture had already been eliminated.
Perhaps the residential schools actually saved them from total annihilation, giving them a chance to save what's left of their culture so it can grow in 21st century "decolonial" colonialism.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 07:13:31 pm
Obviously.  But I don't think Sir John A thought to himself "We need a program to help these natives by starving, beating, and molesting them".

Of course, we in fact know, that he purposely starved indigenous people.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 07:34:28 pm
Tommy Douglas had nothing to say on residential schools and he also said homosexuality was a mental illness. He was voted The Greatest Canadian.

Virtually everyone born before the 20th century was a homophobe who disagreed with gay marriage.  By that standard everyone in the past was a terrible human being.  People back then rode horse and buggy and didn't have electricity.  In my city they're trying to change the name of a town that's been around for 200 years because the founder was a Brit who owned slaves.  We can acknowledge our history without erasing it.

I'm no expert on the residential schools.  I have no idea exactly what was going through the head of Sir John A etc., I'd really have to study the residential schools issue.

That said, I think everyone here agrees those schools were horrific.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 07:44:59 pm
Virtually everyone born before the 20th century was a homophobe who disagreed with gay marriage.  By that standard everyone in the past was a terrible human being.

Not everyone was like that...   there were gay people back then too, who were often victims of violence.  Anyone who perpetrated that violence WAS a terrible human being. 



Quote
That said, I think everyone here agrees those schools were horrific.

Except folks still perpetuate the lie that they were built to educate native children.   That’s a lie.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 07:49:43 pm
Not everyone was like that...   there were gay people back then too, who were often victims of violence.  Anyone who perpetrated that violence WAS a terrible human being. 


Same sex relationships were a criminal offence in Canada until 1969.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 07:59:19 pm
Not everyone was like that...   there were gay people back then too, who were often victims of violence.  Anyone who perpetrated that violence WAS a terrible human being.

Well yes, but I never said anything about violence.  Violence against anyone is wrong and always has been.

Quote
Except folks still perpetuate the lie that they were built to educate native children.   That’s a lie.

Why was the school system built?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 08:10:21 pm
Well yes, but I never said anything about violence.  Violence against anyone is wrong and always has been.

Not against natives it wasn’t....   it was perfectly fine. 

Why would you say the violence was wrong and those people were wrong, but you don’t say that taking native children away from their parents forcefully was wrong too?

Quote
Why was the school system built?

You clearly didn’t read the educational material I linked to earlier.  It explained this. 

They were literally built to strip native children of their culture.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 08:12:43 pm
Same sex relationships were a criminal offence in Canada until 1969.

I’m well aware that the laws were unjust.  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 08:28:52 pm
They were literally built to strip native children of their culture.

Why did the government want to do that?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 08:36:43 pm
Why did the government want to do that?

Religion, cultural 'superiority,' racism, etc. It didn't start with residential schools, and it didn't end with them either.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 16, 2020, 08:45:58 pm
I’m well aware that the laws were unjust.  Thanks.

1969 was more than half way through the 20th century.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on December 16, 2020, 08:47:04 pm
Justin Trudeau Sr. closed more residential schools than any other prime minister:

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 16, 2020, 08:49:02 pm
1969 was more than half way through the 20th century.

Yes.  It was 69% through the 20th century.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 08:50:35 pm
Religion, cultural 'superiority,' racism, etc. It didn't start with residential schools, and it didn't end with them either.

And residential schools were simply a convenient method of perpetuating all the above while also providing a potential screening method as to what was really being done. And apparently there are still those around who took the bait hook, line and sinker. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 10:32:31 pm
Religion, cultural 'superiority,' racism, etc. It didn't start with residential schools, and it didn't end with them either.

But what was the reason?  Why spend tons of money on a program to do these things?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 10:43:51 pm
But what was the reason?  Why spend tons of money on a program to do these things?

White folks had tons of money and they gave it to of all the wrong people, religious groups to administer what is called assimilation.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 16, 2020, 10:46:38 pm
White folks had tons of money and they gave it to of all the wrong people, religious groups to administer what is called assimilation.

But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on December 16, 2020, 11:08:30 pm
But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?

It's called white supremacy.

https://www.canada.ca/en/parks-canada/news/2020/09/the-residential-school-system.html
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 09:51:04 am
So you don't hold Douglas accountable for the beliefs of his time but you do hold the people responsible for the schools accountable for the beliefs of their time. Nice double standard.

No I hold them responsible for their actions. not words or intentions, but the things they actually did.

Yes, otherwise known as colonialism. But the residential schools were established after the lands were divvied up to white people as private property. Indigenous peoples were already subjugated. South of us, in places like Minnesota, they were seen as wild hunter-gatherers who were incompatible with white culture and they were being exterminated,  even with bounties on their scalps. I think the cultural genocide was seen as a more palatable alternative to the real genocide going on, and that it was felt to be necessary because the previous economy that sustained their culture had already been eliminated.
Perhaps the residential schools actually saved them from total annihilation, giving them a chance to save what's left of their culture so it can grow in 21st century "decolonial" colonialism.


"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Also you are correct Canada didn't carry out a wholesale genocide of the indigenous people, but it certainly wasn't for lack of effort on the part of the settlers. May I suggest you read "Clearing the Plains" by James Daschuk.

Virtually everyone born before the 20th century was a homophobe who disagreed with gay marriage.  By that standard everyone in the past was a terrible human being.  People back then rode horse and buggy and didn't have electricity.  In my city they're trying to change the name of a town that's been around for 200 years because the founder was a Brit who owned slaves. We can acknowledge our history without erasing it.

Changing the names of places and taking down statues of execrable people isn't erasing history, it's actually reckoning with it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 10:00:52 am
But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?

Because if the state assimilated them, then it could wash its hands of any responsibility for providing for them.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on December 17, 2020, 11:32:10 am

Changing the names of places and taking down statues of execrable people isn't erasing history, it's actually reckoning with it.

I think there are times to take down statues and change names.  Confederate leaders is one.  They're only famous for fighting to protect slavery.  For people who were famous for other historical reasons but also happened to own slaves because it was very common at the time, like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, I think canceling them is over the top.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 11:50:18 am
I think there are times to take down statues and change names.  Confederate leaders is one.  They're only famous for fighting to protect slavery. For people who were famous for other historical reasons but also happened to own slaves because it was very common at the time, like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, I think canceling them is over the top.


I think the beef with those guys is a bit more complicated than the fact they owned slaves. George Washington wiped out native villages, Jefferson not only owned slaves, he sold them and profited from their labour. Names and statues don't convey the complexity of these characters, but present a one-dimensional hagiographic image.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 11:52:31 am
Complete nonsense.  Erasing history isn't reckoning it.  You may as well be burning books.  People like you are the North American Taliban.

Nice to know that, in an ever-changing world, you're still capable of nothing more than regurgitating whatever whacko right wing talking point is currently in vogue.

But if you get your history solely from looking at statues, it does explain a lot.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 17, 2020, 12:43:40 pm
Nice to know that, in an ever-changing world, you're still capable of nothing more than regurgitating whatever whacko right wing talking point is currently in vogue.

But if you get your history solely from looking at statues, it does explain a lot.
You're the one regurgitating whacko talking points.  I really loved the "changing names and places isn't erasing history, it's reckoning it".  Did you get that from Hallmark?  It's meaningless pablum.  You're literally calling for the erasing of history, and then claiming it's not erasing history.  Orwell would be proud. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 01:04:59 pm
You're the one regurgitating whacko talking points.  I really loved the "changing names and places isn't erasing history, it's reckoning it".  Did you get that from Hallmark?  It's meaningless pablum.

I can see how someone as intensely dedicated to maintaining their own ignorance as you would find that statement confusing, but it's quite straightforward. The debate about removing statues has done more for educating people about history than the statues themselves could do and have ever done.

Quote
You're literally calling for the erasing of history, and then claiming it's not erasing history. Orwell would be proud.

LOL "literally"

If you think taking down statues and changing names of institutions is "erasing history" you also probably still think your mommy disappears during a game of peek-a-boo.

Speaking of erasing history, I see you're now following the company line into the "anti-globalist", anti-immigration, anti-foreign intervention populist right, which is quite the change from the pro-Iraq war, pro big business Shady I remember. I guess if you don't stand for anything you'll fall for everything.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 17, 2020, 01:47:20 pm
No I hold them responsible for their actions. not words or intentions, but the things they actually did.



Douglas had no power to act on his words, who knows what he would have done if he did.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 01:56:17 pm
Douglas had no power to act on his words, who knows what he would have done if he did.

He was Premier of Sakatchewan which meant he would have had ample opportunity to put his views into practice. So what was his record in that regard? I'll tell you: he reversed his stance on eugenics after seeing first hand what it was like and as far as the gay thing goes, he opposed the criminalization of homosexuality (which is the context of his infamous quote on mental illness). So while his views were not as evolved as would be the norm today, he at least showed compassion and a willingness to change his mind and a consistent desire to help people. And as far as I know no one starved or was beaten to death because of his views.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 17, 2020, 03:14:18 pm
He was Premier of Sakatchewan which meant he would have had ample opportunity to put his views into practice. So what was his record in that regard? I'll tell you: he reversed his stance on eugenics after seeing first hand what it was like and as far as the gay thing goes, he opposed the criminalization of homosexuality (which is the context of his infamous quote on mental illness). So while his views were not as evolved as would be the norm today, he at least showed compassion and a willingness to change his mind and a consistent desire to help people. And as far as I know no one starved or was beaten to death because of his views.

Not as a Premier he didn't. Who is to say the proponents of residential schools wouldn't have changed their minds if they had lived into the mid 20th century.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 03:21:54 pm
Not as a Premier he didn't.

What specific views are you claiming he would have pursued if he had the power to do so? and more importantly, why does it matter?

Quote
Who is to say the proponents of residential schools wouldn't have changed their minds if they had lived into the mid 20th century.

Who cares?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 17, 2020, 08:25:12 pm
I can see how someone as intensely dedicated to maintaining their own ignorance as you would find that statement confusing, but it's quite straightforward. The debate about removing statues has done more for educating people about history than the statues themselves could do and have ever done.

LOL "literally"

If you think taking down statues and changing names of institutions is "erasing history" you also probably still think your mommy disappears during a game of peek-a-boo.

Speaking of erasing history, I see you're now following the company line into the "anti-globalist", anti-immigration, anti-foreign intervention populist right, which is quite the change from the pro-Iraq war, pro big business Shady I remember. I guess if you don't stand for anything you'll fall for everything.
Regardless, they’re not your statues to take down.  There’s a process to doing that.  BLM thugs have no right to remove any statue that’s not theirs.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 17, 2020, 08:27:51 pm
Regardless, they’re not your statues to take down.  There’s a process to doing that.  BLM thugs have no right to remove any statue that’s not theirs.

Moving the goalposts I see?

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on December 17, 2020, 08:44:56 pm
Moving the goalposts I see?

No one even mentioned statues, except people who think residential schools were a good idea. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 10:27:44 am
No one even mentioned statues, except people who think residential schools were a good idea.

It's very funny to see him go from "YoU'Re eRaSing hiStoRy!"to "um...have you gone through the proper channels for erasing history?"
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 11:36:46 am
It's very funny to see him go from "YoU'Re eRaSing hiStoRy!"to "um...have you gone through the proper channels for erasing history?"
Both are true.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest78 on December 18, 2020, 11:37:56 am
No one even mentioned statues, except people who think residential schools were a good idea.
Yes, it was mentioned by others.  Black Dogg took offence to people not agreeing with erasing history.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on December 18, 2020, 12:29:55 pm
What specific views are you claiming he would have pursued if he had the power to do so? and more importantly, why does it matter?

Who cares?

As a premier he couldn't enact laws that would reflect his views on homosexuality. Yes it does matter because you can't judge people on what they did if they had no power to do it in the first place. We judge people with homophobic and misogynist views all the time regardless of their powers to do anything about them.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 01:34:57 pm
Both are true.

You actually have a stronger case for the idea of having a dialogue about what to do with these things than your moronic "ErAsiNG HiStOrY" line.

Quote
Yes, it was mentioned by others.  Black Dogg took offence to people not agreeing with erasing history.

First off, spell my name right. Second, I'd ask to expand on how it's erasing history but I know you haven't put more than 30 seconds thought into it, it's just something you read on one of your chud websites. Stupid in, stupid out.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on December 18, 2020, 01:38:44 pm
As a premier he couldn't enact laws that would reflect his views on homosexuality. Yes it does matter because you can't judge people on what they did if they had no power to do it in the first place.

You can't judge people on hypotheticals either dude.

Quote
We judge people with homophobic and misogynist views all the time regardless of their powers to do anything about them.

Yes but there's nothing that stands out about Douglas's views in historical context. If anything, he was more progressive on the issue for the time than those who would continue to criminalize it.


Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 02, 2021, 11:51:28 am
in opposition to public health guidelines: as first set off by public reaction and expressed concerns over the international traveling ways of provincial MPPs, at least for now, as I'm aware, the NDP's 'Niki Ashton' is the only MP to reveal (or be 'caught') having left the country over the recent weeks/holiday period... with the ND party responding with a forceful public announcement that Ms. Ashton would be stripped of her opposition critic roles.

as the reigning drama queen and victim-player, CPP MP Rempel showed impeccable timing by showcasing her pityPouting (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1344525456788180992/pu/vid/538x302/XhEiBPqk3ioboKZD.mp4?tag=10) even before Niki Ashton's situation was recognized.

in the video linked above, BuffaloGal Rempel hearkens back to the early pandemic days and her many-months spent "working" virtually from Oklahoma - I do believe for some part of that period where Rempel was the member from Oklaberta, she did not make it public that she was actually out of the country. Again, reactive timing has MP Rempel railing against Ontario MPP Philips for, apparently, his compromising her ability to travel to see her hubby/family in OK! And also taking a rather predictable shot at, as she states, "vulturous CBC reporters" who would catch her doing so... even though it was the Toronto Star that first made her virtual antics public those many months back!

even though its provincial, how about a special shout-out to Alberta Premier Jason Kenney giving his (3... and counting) MLAs a pass... cause he personally didn't set a policy of 'no travel'... while also emphasizing no laws were broken!  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on January 02, 2021, 01:33:42 pm
It astounds me that these people have to be told not to leave the country.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 02, 2021, 02:16:33 pm
It astounds me that these people have to be told not to leave the country.

Yes, the rules are made for the plebs to make it safer for the elite to travel abroad.  Most people sacrifice and pitch in to do their part, which makes it easier for them to go on their holidays;  we don’t spread our nasty germs to them.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on January 02, 2021, 04:34:21 pm
I don't know it it is tone deaf dumbness or just plain entitlement. Probably a bit of both.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on January 02, 2021, 04:55:09 pm
It astounds me that these people have to be told not to leave the country.
We know from the history of the Spanish Flu that public scorn and disdain for official measures increased as the pandemic wore on and only made the pandemic worse. I suspect that contempt must have built on the same sense there were two sets of rules according to one's station in life. This sort of damaging and example-setting contempt-inspiring behaviour goes far beyond any PR issues it creates for one's party or station.

It won't astound me in the least that as memory of this pandemic fades that'll be the first thing that get's forgotten.  The public really is it's own worst enemy at times.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 02, 2021, 05:14:40 pm
add CPP 'Ron Liepert' (MP Calgary Signal Hill): "traveled twice to Palm Desert, Calif., since March, his office confirmed Saturday, so he could deal with... essential house maintenance issues. - including presently being away during the current recess. His spokesperson also adding, "There has been no non-essential travel, and he has complied with all public health guidance, including the Alberta border testing program, each time he has traveled"

Quote
The spokesperson for Liepert did not immediately return a request from CBC News inquiring what specific maintenance Liepert had to resolve at his Palm Desert home.

per a spokesperson for the Conservative Party:

Quote
Since becoming Leader, Mr. [Erin] O'Toole has continued to emphasize the necessity for all members of caucus to follow all public health guidance including travel advisories," said Chelsea Tucker, O'Toole's press secretary, in an email. "It is our understanding that all members of caucus have.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 02, 2021, 07:27:14 pm
It’s worth noting that almost everyone who travelled is from one half of the political spectrum.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 02, 2021, 11:57:54 pm
even though its provincial, how about a special shout-out to Alberta Premier Jason Kenney giving his (3... and counting) MLAs a pass... cause he personally didn't set a policy of 'no travel'... while also emphasizing no laws were broken!  ;D

now up to 8 Alberta UCP MLA's or senior staffers traveled outside of Canada during the holiday period; 6 per the graphic below plus the 2 latest identified traveling to Hawaii together as Michael Forian (press secretary for Alberta’s education minister) & Eliza Snider (press secretary for the province’s minister of advanced education):

(https://i.imgur.com/SwKkrsn.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2021, 04:36:48 pm
Two Liberals travelled over the holidays. Both have lost their responsibilities (parliamentary secretary and committee membership). Still waiting for any accountability in Alberta.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2021, 04:44:31 pm
BTW - I think all MPs who travelled since March should resign.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 03, 2021, 04:48:18 pm
Why are people allowed to travel for vacations?  Don't we have any travel restrictions, either provincially or federally?  Is it only elites who can travel?  Can regular people travel?  Are they?  What kind of horsecrap is going on here?  It's mayhem.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on January 03, 2021, 05:10:16 pm
The governed have been putting up with this from their betters since...forever.

Am I supposed to believe public outrage will somehow transcend partisan politics and somehow finally pit the innies and and the outies against one another?

In my dreams maybe.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 03, 2021, 05:10:31 pm
Why are people allowed to travel for vacations?  Don't we have any travel restrictions, either provincially or federally?  Is it only elites who can travel?  Can regular people travel?  Are they?  What kind of horsecrap is going on here?  It's mayhem.

Anyone can travel. MPs should set a higher standard.

It has come to my attention that MP Liepert is on a Parliamentary Committee (Library of Parliament). Erin O'Toole needs to do the right thing.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 03, 2021, 08:54:51 pm
Anyone can travel. MPs should set a higher standard.

It has come to my attention that MP Liepert is on a Parliamentary Committee (Library of Parliament). Erin O'Toole needs to do the right thing.

Well on the positive, we get to filter out some of the dumb politicians who have exposed themselves for their dumbness.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 04, 2021, 01:50:46 pm
Finally some accountability in Alberta today with Allard losing her job and others losing their jobs.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 04, 2021, 03:25:04 pm
Finally some accountability in Alberta today with Allard losing her job and others losing their jobs.

(https://i.imgur.com/thOnoDH.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 05, 2021, 12:16:26 am
what... you thought this wouldn't include the Senate? I expect the first of 'several' Senators to be referenced!

this one is kinda special in that Conservative Senate Opposition Leader, Don Plett, released this video on December 17 (https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1840028739938)... and 10 days later left for a holiday in Mexico! Hippocrit!
(https://i.imgur.com/61QCyvb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 05, 2021, 12:30:21 am
and this one is kinda sweet; as in CPC Ontario MP David Sweet traveling over the holiday period to the U.S.; Sweet who was the chair of the HOC Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, no less.

clearly, he's had a good patrician run and is taking leave with an announcement that he intends to retire from federal politics while offering up the ole chestnut of wanting to spend more time with the fam!  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 07, 2021, 01:30:01 pm
O’Toole would rather prisoners spread COVID to the community than they get the vaccine if they’re deemed to be high risk spreaders.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/01/06/Opposing-Prisoner-Vaccination-Erin-O-Toole-Unmasked/

Quote
The federal government’s COVID-19 vaccination effort includes a plan to immunize high-risk prisoners in federal prisons — people who are old or sick. The initial wave of vaccinations will reach 600 inmates, about four per cent of the prison population.

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 Join us and grow independent media in Canada
O’Toole was predictably outraged, and equally predictably took to Twitter.

“Not one criminal should be vaccinated ahead of any vulnerable Canadian or frontline health worker,” he harrumphed.

In one sentence, O’Toole evoked both the callousness of the Stephen Harper government and its unwillingness to leave such decisions to experts who actually make them based on evidence, rather than political calculation.

In this case, public health officials looked at the evidence and decided that, based on the goals of saving lives and preventing the spread of COVID-19, some prisoners should be included in early vaccination efforts.

That’s not surprising. Prisons are crowded, inmates and guards are in close proximity around the clock, and many inmates are unhealthy.

O’Toole’s position is, basically, tough. If they die, they die.

The problem with the Conservative’s stance on this is that ignores all science and advice from medical experts on the best way to stop the spread of COVID in favour of feeding their “tough-on-crime” base. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 11:08:04 am
Conservative MPs ....    they can’t get out of their own fuckin’ way.   MANY party members seem to want the violence we see in the USofA, it seems.

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5865734.1610073344!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/candice-bergen-maga.jpg)

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5865727
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 08, 2021, 11:30:52 am
The Conservative Party is using the exact same rhetoric about “rigging elections” as Trump.   Are they this fuckin’ daft?

https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/election-rigging/?fbclid=IwAR0HYOqX4Wmthd5j_4LuvB-VNhWUOX48tUSHQy0pQKp7A9BJjhKe-_V-LpE

Quote
Justin Trudeau is rigging the next election in his favour

The next step is to claim the results don’t count, or the election was stolen, when the Conservatives lose next time there’s an election.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 10, 2021, 05:24:42 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/gRClQC6.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 10, 2021, 05:48:34 pm
The Conservative Party is using the exact same rhetoric about “rigging elections” as Trump.   Are they this fuckin’ daft?

https://www.conservative.ca/cpc/election-rigging/?fbclid=IwAR0HYOqX4Wmthd5j_4LuvB-VNhWUOX48tUSHQy0pQKp7A9BJjhKe-_V-LpE

The next step is to claim the results don’t count, or the election was stolen, when the Conservatives lose next time there’s an election.

404 error that say 'Justin Trudeau promised you something and it's not here'

They're literally blaming Trudeau for information they took off their own website
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 10, 2021, 06:32:55 pm
404 error that say 'Justin Trudeau promised you something and it's not here'

They're literally blaming Trudeau for information they took off their own website

Wow....  now they’re hiding their harmful, Trump-like rhetoric...  I guess they think that accusing Trudeau of taking down their garbage is somehow funny?


https://www.narcity.com/en-ca/news/conservative-party-accused-justin-trudeau-of-rigging-the-election-deleted-it

https://thinkpol.ca/2021/01/08/canadas-conservatives-under-fire-for-promoting-election-rigging-conspiracy-theories-echoing-trump/

(https://thinkpol.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/trudeau_rigging_elections.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 07:32:06 pm
The Conservative Party is using the exact same rhetoric about “rigging elections” as Trump.   Are they this fuckin’ daft?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 13, 2021, 07:35:11 pm
404 error that say 'Justin Trudeau promised you something and it's not here'

They're literally blaming Trudeau for information they took off their own website

Maybe he stole it.  :D

I kid i kid.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 18, 2021, 12:21:08 pm
Kenney 'slightly' dusting off the ethical oil position... while also threatening legal avenues. Kenney has no qualms in speaking for, "a country that takes the challenges of climate change seriously", while also positioning to extend upon his UCP government's rescind of the decades-old policy that banned open-pit coal mines in Rockies and Foothills (https://www.aenweb.ca/news/coal-mining-albertas-eastern-slopes)

(https://i.imgur.com/EPtWScb.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 18, 2021, 07:46:54 pm
So apparently O'Toole is trying to boot Derek Sloan from the party for accepting a donation of $131 from a known white supremacist who has chummed with neo-nazis:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7584508/derek-sloan-erin-otoole/

Quote
Conservative Party Leader Erin O’Toole says he has initiated the process to remove MP Derek Sloan from the party’s caucus after he accepted a donation from a “well-known white supremacist,” Paul Fromm.
...
“Racism is a disease of the soul, repugnant to our core values,” O’Toole said.  “It has no place in our country. It has no place in the Conservative Party of Canada. I won’t tolerate it.”
...
In a series of tweets, Sloan said he became aware of the donation Monday afternoon, saying Fromm, “a person with known connections to racist groups, donated $131 to my campaign.”  Sloan said, “at no time was I ever aware of this donation,” adding that his campaign received over 13,000 separate donations, which were handled by volunteers.

I think the boot is arguably reasonable, assuming Sloan indeed knew he received this donation from a white supremacist with neo-nazi ties, which Sloan is denying per above.  Maybe this is just the last straw and Sloan has been a thorn in their side for a while.

I'm just wondering why politicians aren't raked over the coals more for all sorts of corrupt and dirty donations they receive all the time from various sources.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 18, 2021, 08:40:20 pm
So apparently O'Toole is trying to boot Derek Sloan from the party for accepting a donation of $131 from a known white supremacist who has chummed with neo-nazis:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7584508/derek-sloan-erin-otoole/

I think the boot is arguably reasonable, assuming Sloan indeed knew he received this donation from a white supremacist with neo-nazi ties, which Sloan is denying per above.  Maybe this is just the last straw and Sloan has been a thorn in their side for a while.

After the crazy crap from this guy, they’re now looking for any excuse to give him the boot...   if it was the normal batshit crazy religious/conspiracy nonsense from this guy, the CPC would look like they weren’t “accepting of other views”, and may alienate some of their batshit crazy supposrters.

Quote
I'm just wondering why politicians aren't raked over the coals more for all sorts of corrupt and dirty donations they receive all the time from various sources.

Chretien brought in an unpopular, but very effective, way of publicly funding political parties.  It took away corporate and union donations and limiting single donations to a very small amount.  It worked very well at minimal cost to taxpayers, but Harper got rid of it. 

I think Harper was of the opinion that money should do the talking in politics.    I think that’s still the CPC position and also the Liberal position these days.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 18, 2021, 09:14:03 pm
Chretien brought in an unpopular, but very effective, way of publicly funding political parties.  It took away corporate and union donations and limiting single donations to a very small amount.  It worked very well at minimal cost to taxpayers, but Harper got rid of it. 

I think Harper was of the opinion that money should do the talking in politics.    I think that’s still the CPC position and also the Liberal position these days.

I looked at my the list of political donations to my local city counselor.  It was filled with people connected to real estate development.  I guess when housing developers want to obtain the green light to develop more land for it pays to grease the palms a bit.  Donations were limited too but CEOs would put donations through all their family members.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on January 19, 2021, 12:29:17 am
Chretien brought in an unpopular, but very effective, way of publicly funding political parties.  It took away corporate and union donations and limiting single donations to a very small amount.  It worked very well at minimal cost to taxpayers, but Harper got rid of it. 

Harper strengthened the donation rules, thankfully. He was actually the one that lowered the personal donation limit to $1000 (indexed to inflation) per person. Chretien was the one that got rid of corporate and union donations, and slashed limits to $5000.

On the other hand, Harper selfishly got rid of the per vote subsidy for political parties. It was a great way for every vote to count, even in a FPTP system.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on January 19, 2021, 01:35:01 am
oh my!

So apparently O'Toole is trying to boot Derek Sloan from the party for accepting a donation of $131 from a known white supremacist who has chummed with neo-nazis:

Elections Canada records show a 'Frederick P. Fromm' donated $131 to Sloan in August 2020... one of some ~ 13,000 separate donations made to Sloan's campaign run for the leadership of the CPC. Sloan states he wasn't aware, highlights the name distinction (not Paul Fromm) and puts a degree of onus on 'his team' for not recognizing the donor name.

Quote from: Blustering and outraged CPC leader, Erin O'Toole
Derek Sloan's acceptance of a donation from a well-known white supremacist is far worse than a gross error of judgment or failure of due diligence.

Sloan also emphasizes the CPC's expectation of an excessive standard of donor scrutiny; one the CPC doesn't even have as it:
=> accepted 10% of the donation
=> accepted the donor's party membership request / granted the donor membership in the CPC
=> allowed the donor to vote in the CPC  leadership election

 ;D
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 20, 2021, 02:48:28 pm
Sloan has been given the boot!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/7588477/derek-sloan-conservative-caucus-membership-vote/amp/

Will this be a rift in the CPC?  Is this enough of a move to appeal the party to mainstream Canadians?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on January 20, 2021, 04:59:40 pm
Sloan has been given the boot!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/7588477/derek-sloan-conservative-caucus-membership-vote/amp/

Will this be a rift in the CPC?  Is this enough of a move to appeal the party to mainstream Canadians?

It's the kind of thing the party needs to be more electable.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 20, 2021, 05:05:35 pm
I read up on Sloan.  He's an evangelical Christian nutbar, believes in LGBT conversion therapy, and from wikipedia:  "Sloan began a law degree at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario, and he finished articling in 2018. Sloan has said he pursued law because he was interested in "defending religious liberties against political correctness."

The number of **** Christian nutbars in the CPC is alarming.  The federal PC party should have let these Christian weirdos in the Canadian Alliance die on a hill.  Remember the federal PC's?  They weren't so bad.  Remember Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney?  They seemed not crazy.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 20, 2021, 05:07:12 pm
It's the kind of thing the party needs to be more electable.

ya i think this was the last straw.  Sloan is too rightwing, he's bonkers.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 20, 2021, 07:52:08 pm
  Remember Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney?  They seemed not crazy.

I hated them at the time.  I had no idea what was coming.

We need to KEEP the Peoples' Party of Canada as a magnet to these people.  Secondly, a centrist conservative needs to win big to show them that such a thing is possible.  ( Does ANYONE out WEST speak FRENCH ?)

Then.... all party leaders smoke weed together and have an ****.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 11:07:50 am
I hated them at the time.  I had no idea what was coming.

We need to KEEP the Peoples' Party of Canada as a magnet to these people.  Secondly, a centrist conservative needs to win big to show them that such a thing is possible.  ( Does ANYONE out WEST speak FRENCH ?)


If the CPC gets rid of the nutbars, then who are they? Just the Liberals.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 21, 2021, 12:15:01 pm
If the CPC gets rid of the nutbars, then who are they? Just the Liberals.

Well, no....   they may be a more liberal (small ‘l’) party, but they’re not Liberals. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on January 21, 2021, 12:32:20 pm
Well, no....   they may be a more liberal (small ‘l’) party, but they’re not Liberals.

From a policy standpoint, what's the dif?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 21, 2021, 01:10:12 pm
From a policy standpoint, what's the dif?

I think the policy documents of the parties are quite different.  However, I think the Libs do govern very similarly to the CPC did, except a little better.  On the pandemic, there’s no comparison.  Judging from what the Cons have put forward, they would’ve been a complete shitshow. 

On their large promises, the Libs have been a no-show. 

But they remain 2 distinct parties.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on January 22, 2021, 12:41:45 am
From a policy standpoint, what's the dif?

They would be right of centre Red Tories as the PC Party usually was and the social conservative blue tories centering in Alberta would do their wacko Reform Party/Canadian Alliance stuff.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on January 22, 2021, 07:48:23 am
Saying the Liberals and Tories are very similar is by no means an insult.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on January 22, 2021, 11:05:17 am
Saying the Liberals and Tories are very similar is by no means an insult.

Until you list the reasons why they’re  both shitty.   
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 02, 2021, 12:19:51 am
CPC MP for Prince Albert, Saskatchewan - Randy Hoback: in support of the CPC misinformation campaign concerning vaccine procurement, CPC MP Hoback is calling for clear strategic forceful reaction plans... like, uhhh... pulling out of NATO, drawing a line in the sand! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1356319265763299342/pu/vid/720x480/KciO8jUTBw1jB-nV.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 04, 2021, 01:04:13 am
just sayin'

(https://i.imgur.com/1akXo9Q.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 05, 2021, 01:02:00 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/FC4apsD.jpg)

and now the guy who so trumpeted his Canada First policy/strategy is quite concerned over the Buy America positioning of the U.S. - go figure!

(https://i.imgur.com/SqJIPj9.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Omni on February 05, 2021, 03:51:58 pm
at least we can be thankful our right wingers are not as friggin crazy as those south of the border. We don't have a Marjorie Taylor Greene ....so far
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 05, 2021, 10:32:38 pm
Waldo you've written for National Inquirer, correct?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 06, 2021, 12:46:51 am
Waldo you've written for National Inquirer, correct?

asstute you so are! What was your first clue... what gave it away, hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 10, 2021, 07:33:58 am
Waldo you've written for National Inquirer, correct?

Waldo as a writer would fit the puzzle pieces...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 16, 2021, 12:01:15 am
notwithstanding the failed support for veterans that Harper/O'Foole brought forward, CPC leader O'Foole is forevah, ad nauseum, playing up his military "service"... as this most astute summation highlights, the guy got a taxpayer funded education for a minimalist 5 years - nice, beauty!

(https://i.imgur.com/sHfRShE.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2021, 01:06:46 am
notwithstanding the failed support for veterans that Harper/O'Foole brought forward, CPC leader O'Foole is forevah, ad nauseum, playing up his military "service"... as this most astute summation highlights, the guy got a taxpayer funded education for a minimalist 5 years - nice, beauty!

They offer the education as incentive, he took the offer.  Contract honoured, neither owes the other anything. Imagine denigrating someone for serving their country.  WTF have you done?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 16, 2021, 01:07:49 pm
They offer the education as incentive, he took the offer.  Contract honoured, neither owes the other anything. Imagine denigrating someone for serving their country.  WTF have you done?

oh pleeeese!  ;D The guy disengenuously acts like he had a long-storied military career... somehow he/CPC never manage to fully qualify the "12 years" to recognize it's actually 7 years of schooling and 5 years of actual service. As a Minister of Veterans Affairs, O'Foole wears the stink of how Harper failed military veterans - should we go there, hey!

here's a lil' ditty that speaks to just how far the CPC is willing to attempt to leverage that minimalist O'Toole military service - such a brazen move to leverage the RCAF logo

(https://i.imgur.com/IXlNhCA.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 16, 2021, 01:15:39 pm
notwithstanding the failed support for veterans that Harper/O'Foole brought forward, CPC leader O'Foole is forevah, ad nauseum, playing up his military "service"... as this most astute summation highlights, the guy got a taxpayer funded education for a minimalist 5 years - nice, beauty!



After graduating from RMC with a BA in history and poly sci in 1995,  O'Toole served for 12 years on Sea Kings, reached the rank of Captain and received the Sikorski Helicopter Rescue Award for saving fishermen at sea. He left regular service in 2000, and got his law degree while serving in the reserves as a training officer running flight simulators.

You should stop getting your news from Twitter.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 16, 2021, 01:48:18 pm
After graduating from RMC with a BA in history and poly sci in 1995,  O'Toole served for 12 years on Sea Kings, reached the rank of Captain and received the Sikorski Helicopter Rescue Award for saving fishermen at sea. He left regular service in 2000, and got his law degree while serving in the reserves as a training officer running flight simulators.

You should stop getting your news from Twitter.

 ;D wilberMath! "12 years on Sea Kings"!!! Oh my, member wilber - oh my! 91-to-2000 includes 4 years of college... and 5 years of actual service. 2000-2003 in reserves getting a law degree... and occasionally showing up as a flight simulator instructor! But ya - wilberMath says that equates to... "12 years on Sea Kings"!

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 16, 2021, 03:18:40 pm
;D wilberMath! "12 years on Sea Kings"!!! Oh my, member wilber - oh my! 91-to-2000 includes 4 years of college... and 5 years of actual service. 2000-2003 in reserves getting a law degree... and occasionally showing up as a flight simulator instructor! But ya - wilberMath says that equates to... "12 years on Sea Kings"!

Four years at RMC. Graduated in 1995. Two years flight flight training and other postings in Toronto and Winnipeg. Posted to Shearwater in 1997 as a tactical navigator on Sea Kings with 423 Squadron doing search and rescue. Also flew off HMCS St. John's doing maritime surveillance and anti submarine work. Retired from regular service in 2002 and spent three years in the reserves. 

I flew with quite a few guys who did something similar. The problem with the military is with few exceptions, Captain is about as high as you can go without flying a desk so they leave and move on.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 16, 2021, 06:30:38 pm

It seems rather petty trying to say someone’s service was 7 rather than the 12 they were with the military because you want to minus their school years? 

LOL

Grow up.  There are a lot of reasons to criticize O’Toole that actually have some merit.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 16, 2021, 07:36:05 pm
;D wilberMath! "12 years on Sea Kings"!!! Oh my, member wilber - oh my! 91-to-2000 includes 4 years of college... and 5 years of actual service. 2000-2003 in reserves getting a law degree... and occasionally showing up as a flight simulator instructor! But ya - wilberMath says that equates to... "12 years on Sea Kings"!

You train while in school.  That's why you're at a military college.  There's a base right there.  It's not just toga parties at the frat house on the weekends.

Also yes they should change the logo, they shouldn't leverage it like that for politics.  But that doesn't mean he didn't serve in the Forces for 12 years.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 12:14:47 am
It seems rather petty trying to say someone’s service was 7 rather than the 12 they were with the military because you want to minus their school years?

no, no, no! That's 5 rather than the 12 O'Foole/CPC continually tout/flog... and that 5 years of actual military service was the maximum capped figure. But hey, if you want to include the 4 years at RMC Kingston to land an... arts degree... and, as a reservist, the 3 years at Dalhousie in Halifax to obtain a law degree - have at er! Ya see, O'Foole/CPC never quite manage to delineate the actual service while they continually play up his "military credentials".  By the by, its quite telling that "staunch" militaryMan O'Foole opted not to leverage the law career that was waiting for him within the military... choosing instead the corporate law path - cause he'd had enough of the Canadian military after serving those 5 years!  ;D 

Grow up.

xxxx me!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 12:30:50 am
You train while in school.  That's why you're at a military college.  There's a base right there.  It's not just toga parties at the frat house on the weekends.

But that doesn't mean he didn't serve in the Forces for 12 years.

oh really! Given the Royal Military College of Canada (RMCC) has an emphasized focus on leadership and ethics training, perhaps you can comment on the 2017 Auditor General of Canada Report that found that RMCC was not meeting its stated mission or role... finding that the RMCC emphasized academic education over military training and that there were deficiencies in the military training - also finding that there was no measurable standard for leadership qualities or ethical military behaviour that graduates were required to demonstrate. About that "base" you're mentioning... hey Gorgeous!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2021, 08:51:29 am
Interesting that waldo can get so unhinged because a Conservative leader actually served in the military.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 11:20:34 am
Interesting that waldo can get so unhinged because a Conservative leader actually served in the military.

waldo presenting factual info is not getting, as you say, unhinged. Showcasing the O'Foole/CPC practice in falsely portraying a long-storied military career is not getting, as you say, unhinged. Presenting yet another case of failed wilberMath is not getting, as you say, unhinged.

by the by, have you nothing to say about that CPC misappropriation of the RCAF logo... nothing?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2021, 12:55:13 pm
waldo presenting factual info is not getting, as you say, unhinged. Showcasing the O'Foole/CPC practice in falsely portraying a long-storied military career is not getting, as you say, unhinged. Presenting yet another case of failed wilberMath is not getting, as you say, unhinged.

by the by, have you nothing to say about that CPC misappropriation of the RCAF logo... nothing?

It's an OK logo, my feelings are pretty neutral about it.

Red and blue have always been the CPC colours and the Liberals also use a red maple leaf.

It wouldn't be the RCAF but for the CPC.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 17, 2021, 01:41:48 pm
It's an OK logo, my feelings are pretty neutral about it.

Red and blue have always been the CPC colours and the Liberals also use a red maple leaf.

It wouldn't be the RCAF but for the CPC.

I don’t think a political party should be co-opting military emblems as their own.  It’s distasteful.   But, that’s the CPC brand, I think.  Their base seems to encourage the MAGA hats, the gun worship, etc, etc.   It’s one reason why they can’t get widespread appeal any longer.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 17, 2021, 02:50:59 pm
oh really! Given the Royal Military College of Canada (RMCC) has an emphasized focus on leadership and ethics training, perhaps you can comment on the 2017 Auditor General of Canada Report that found that RMCC was not meeting its stated mission or role... finding that the RMCC emphasized academic education over military training and that there were deficiencies in the military training - also finding that there was no measurable standard for leadership qualities or ethical military behaviour that graduates were required to demonstrate. About that "base" you're mentioning... hey Gorgeous!

How does that apply to when O'Toole attended 25 years prior to that report?...hey Waldo!  ;D

What was your boy doing in the early 90's?  Wearing blackface and feeling up reporters boobs while dope-smoking?

Guy serves his country for 12 years and gets a law degree and you see it as an opportunity to find ways to denigrate his service and post your stupid memes.  You're trash.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 03:18:53 pm
How does that apply to when O'Toole attended 25 years prior to that report?...hey Waldo!  ;D

as you're the guy hyping the "RMC base", I look forward to you detailing that baseBasis... and how it apparently went to shyte after O'Foole left the fold!  ;D

What was your boy doing in the early 90's?  Wearing blackface and feeling up reporters boobs while dope-smoking?

good on ya for acknowledging O'Foole is... your boy! Good on ya! Reading you losing your shyte is a bonus.

Guy serves his country for 12 years and gets a law degree and you see it as an opportunity to find ways to denigrate his service and post your stupid memes.  You're trash.

no, again, 7 years of schooling to obtain an undergraduate 'Arts' degree & a law degree isn't military service... no matter how hard you try to squeeze it! The guy had a job waiting for him as a military lawyer, but again, he turned his back on that opportunity, turned his back on Canada for a corporate job in the trenches at Proctor & Gamble!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 17, 2021, 03:24:36 pm
How does that apply to when O'Toole attended 25 years prior to that report?...hey Waldo!  ;D

What was your boy doing in the early 90's?  Wearing blackface and feeling up reporters boobs while dope-smoking?

Guy serves his country for 12 years and gets a law degree and you see it as an opportunity to find ways to denigrate his service and post your stupid memes.  You're trash.

Its no different than the conservative idiots denigrating Trudeau as a ‘drama teacher’. 

Waldo plays the same stupid games as the conservative mouthpieces.  That’s his shtick. 

Oh wait....

It's all an act to get attention and get people to swoon over him.  He's a drama teacher...

Seems to be your shtick too.   2 peas in a pod, you and Waldo, eh?

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 03:26:34 pm
It wouldn't be the RCAF but for the CPC.

ya ya, Harper tinkering with Canada's historical military ties/events... cause it wouldn't be an air force without the 'Royal' attachment - amirite?

and that other Harper name change from Canadian Forces to Canadian Armed Forces!  ;D At least they didn't go with the initial thought to rename as the Canadian GunTotin' Forces, hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 17, 2021, 03:27:28 pm
Waldo plays the same stupid games as the conservative mouthpieces.  That’s his shtick. 

Oh wait....

Seems to be your shtick too.   2 peas in a pod, you and Waldo, eh?

hey member squiggy, you wear buttHurt so well!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 17, 2021, 03:33:22 pm
ya ya, Harper tinkering with Canada's historical military ties/events... cause it wouldn't be an air force without the 'Royal' attachment - amirite?

and that other Harper name change from Canadian Forces to Canadian Armed Forces!  ;D At least they didn't go with the initial thought to rename as the Canadian GunTotin' Forces, hey


It wasn't Harper who tinkered, it was the Liberals who wiped out 100 years of tradition when they amalgamated the forces in 1968 and dressed everyone in green. Harper just restored some of that, although I wish they had restored the original airforce rank structure as well instead of staying with army ranks.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 20, 2021, 09:31:37 pm
And people wonder why Canadians think Conservatives have a “hidden agenda”...   well, when you only say what you really think in secret, maybe that’s a consequence.

This MP is spreading the lie that Liberals want to normalize sex with children.  Wow. What a bloody crackpot.  The social conservative base will lap this up....   but they have made themselves even more unelectable.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7651921/conservative-conspiracies-liberals-allegations/amp/

 
Quote
A Conservative MP accused Liberals of wanting to “normalize sexual activity with children” during a Zoom meeting with a university student group, according to a recording of the call released Friday.

Ontario MP Cheryl Gallant made the allegations, which the Liberals described as a promotion of “deranged conspiracy theories,” during a virtual meeting earlier this month with the Queen’s University Conservative Association.

Video recordings of the call, which were posted Friday afternoon by Liberal MP Jennifer O’Connell, showed Gallant accusing all but of a handful of Liberals of being “radicals” who want “all illicit drugs to be legal.”


US election misinformation: What is QAnon and how much of a threat is it to democracy? – Oct 28, 2020
“They want anything goes in every aspect of life. They want to normalize sexual activity with children,” added Gallant.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 22, 2021, 10:53:22 pm
So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 22, 2021, 11:02:49 pm
So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?
I bet they make hay with Trudeau's Cabinet.

Meanwhile...Canada should be issuing travel advisories and warning Canadians that they will have to start taking responsibility for their decision to travel to China - we can ill afford to have hostages preventing us from doing the right thing by standing up for every human being's rights.  An attack on one is an attack on all.

Our grandparents sacrificed nearly 40% of their GDP not to mention thousands of their lives to fight tyranny.

As I understand it we rely on China for some 22% of our economy so that means we should be able to commit at least another 28 to telling other dictatorships to go **** themselves.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 22, 2021, 11:24:58 pm
I just think it's kind of ironic that some of the people voting to recognize the genocide in China won't recognize the one in Canada.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 22, 2021, 11:33:36 pm
I just think it's kind of ironic that some of the people voting to recognize the genocide in China won't recognize the one in Canada.
By all means place the pox on every deserving countries house. This should definitely be stoked into a global conflict between those who govern and those who don't.

Burn it all down and start from scratch if that's what it takes.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 23, 2021, 01:04:05 am
And people wonder why Canadians think Conservatives have a “hidden agenda”...   well, when you only say what you really think in secret, maybe that’s a consequence.

This MP is spreading the lie that Liberals want to normalize sex with children.  Wow. What a bloody crackpot.  The social conservative base will lap this up....   but they have made themselves even more unelectable.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7651921/conservative-conspiracies-liberals-allegations/amp/

video of Cheryl Gallant, CPC MP (the Ontario riding of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke)... such a whackadoodle! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1363178092785594370/pu/vid/1280x720/XFFIZvut7HHTNyiR.mp4?tag=10)

and then there's this gem:
(https://i.imgur.com/oB4Dye5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on February 23, 2021, 01:21:58 am
So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?

We better be careful, they might withhold our supply of CanSino Biologics vaccine.

I just think it's kind of ironic that some of the people voting to recognize the genocide in China won't recognize the one in Canada.

Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 01:00:39 pm
Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k

If the conditional nature of Trudeau's application is out of concern for the two Michaels and other Canadians in China that could be held hostage he should be honest and say so. Basing cabinet abstinence on doubts about the legality of the term genocide appears to be in line with Canada not mentioning China in our initiative to end hostage diplomacy on the international stage.  I get the desire of cabinet to approach this delicately and that dealing with China is extremely complicated by deep cultural issues with face https://www.china-mike.com/chinese-culture/cult-of-face/ that both precede and still dominate China's dictators even more than it does China's society.  Lets face it, a bruised ego is as bad a condition for politicians in our political system to deal with as it is in China's. All of them bend and contort themselves into similar pretzels.

Apparently there's some need to leave China's rulers a way out of the corner the term genocide puts them into and I think using our powerlessness as a middle power in the face of super-power authoritarianism might be the key to getting more allies and fostering more awareness of what's really going on. We have no trouble encouraging people we've committed genocide against to be honest about how it feels and that talking about it openly and honestly is key to reconciliation.

Perhaps there's as much or more a place for weakness and helplessness in the scheme of things. We know from experience that estrangement and isolation don't work but then neither will pretending the contentiousness of a term's legal definition is more important than the reason for applying it or not.  It was this sort of quibbling that kept Canada from addressing the genocide we committed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 01:43:38 pm
So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?

Who cares, Canadians have made their minds up about China. Trudeau should be happy, Canadians have sent a clear message to China without him having to attach his name to it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 02:34:01 pm
We need to start diversifying our supply chains.  I say move a ton of manufacturing to India and play those 2 countries off each other.  No country should have leverage over Canada like China does.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 02:35:29 pm
Our politicians sold us out to the lowest bidder.  Everyone could see this situation coming 15-20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 23, 2021, 02:40:33 pm
Our politicians sold us out to the lowest bidder.  Everyone could see this situation coming 15-20 years ago.

Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 02:51:11 pm
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.

It's often hard to not find things made in China. It isn't Walmart. Plus, many iconic Western companies are now owned by Chinese corporations.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 02:57:52 pm
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.
What about people who can't afford to be choosy and spend more?  I mean the obvious answer is what I've suggested, we make the sort of sacrifices our grandparents made and do without.

So why aren't O'Toole and Singh suggesting boycotts of Walmart and a more minimalist approach to consumerism?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 03:08:34 pm
I realize there are only so many fights people can fight but I sure wish 1st Nations developed an interest in Canada's foreign affairs.  I'd go as far to say they should probably have at least as great a say in these affairs as Ottawa and perhaps more when it comes to matters involving our nation's conscience and morality towards other peoples.

Further to this;

Quote
The erasure of Indigenous thought in foreign policy

Where is the acknowledgement of — and engagement with — Indigenous thought in the development of international relations and the practice of foreign policy? Hayden King calls out the field’s glaring gaps and asks whether a different kind of foreign policy is possible or even desirable.

https://opencanada.org/erasure-indigenous-thought-foreign-policy/
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 04:33:58 pm
Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k

While the Prime Minister of Canada has a lot of power to end the ongoing genocide against Canada's indigenous people, I question his ability to do anything about the one in China. I don't think anyone likes what's going on in China, but about the only thing we can do right now is shoot ourselves in the foot.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 04:35:28 pm
It's often hard to not find things made in China. It isn't Walmart. Plus, many iconic Western companies are now owned by Chinese corporations.

It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 04:36:09 pm
Who cares, Canadians have made their minds up about China. Trudeau should be happy, Canadians have sent a clear message to China without him having to attach his name to it.

How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 04:57:52 pm
How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?

Yesterday?

If I were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China I would have been re evaluating my status from the day the Micheals were seized. Are you saying we will just have to eat China's **** perpetually because of the threat to Canadians living and working in China? The Micheals should have been a lesson to any Canadian in China that they have no rights or security and the Chinese government will have no hesitation using them in any way it wants to put leverage on Canada.

Over 80 Liberals voted for this motion. They know what side of history they are on.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 05:09:14 pm
How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?
Why should we care? No one is forcing them to be there and by staying they're compromising our country's ability to be a moral nation.

All I know for sure is that I love my Chinese grandchildren and I loath the human race.  It's a challenge to keep up the appearance of optimism for the future that grandparents should be trying to fill their grandkids with and more importantly why.

I feel like I'm tricking them or something.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 23, 2021, 05:15:47 pm
It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.

China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:21:51 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?

There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 23, 2021, 05:26:01 pm
There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.

Easy to say...   but if there isn’t a coalition of other nations who take this action, it would essentially be meaningless and would probably only harm Canada.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:31:31 pm
Easy to say...   but if there isn’t a coalition of other nations who take this action, it would essentially be meaningless and would probably only harm Canada.

It easy to say but it's true.

I agree that there has to be some kind of coalition or China will just play one off against the other.

However, we can make our own choices as individuals.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 05:38:13 pm
It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.
If it helps Maine, O'Toole and Singh should immediately be barking up Trudeau's ass to summon Biden to explain wtf he thinks America is up too. It should be a teachable moment when China smiles and shrugs off the lack of issues the US has with referring to genocide.

Politicians of every stripe, including opposition politicians can be the lowest form of subhuman in existence when they want to be - they almost make sentience look like a waste of evolution. If our government's opposition was honest about doing something constructive in Canada's name they would be helping the government of the day by acknowledging the predicament we're all in as a middle power squashed between super-powers.  Instead they make it worse by exploiting the issue for political gain and sandwich us even more firmly between a rock and a hard place.

Our allies are as big problem here as our enemies. Like the Uighurs we're on our own.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 05:40:23 pm
We have to decide who we are.
Not as much as we need to decide WHAT we are, which is moral or amoral. It's that black and white.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 05:51:58 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?
The simple answer is that we can't do that without harming our economy. We either accept that and if we can't then we should bow to China.

This is what O'Toole and Singh should be explaining to Canadians otherwise they're no better than Trudeau in terms of their service to Canada and human decency.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 07:58:21 pm
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.

Ya but China.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 07:59:44 pm
While the Prime Minister of Canada has a lot of power to end the ongoing genocide against Canada's indigenous people, I question his ability to do anything about the one in China. I don't think anyone likes what's going on in China, but about the only thing we can do right now is shoot ourselves in the foot.

Either they voted the Liberals were screwed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 08:03:37 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?

Over 80 Liberals voted for this motion. They know what side of history they are on.


We definitely have to take a stand, as there likely is a genocide going on. To take a stand against a country like China, it has to be in consultation with another global power. Either the European Union or the United States have to be ready to pursue this, or all we do is harm ourselves. The motion yesterday will already have harmed us.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 08:04:54 pm
It easy to say but it's true.

I agree that there has to be some kind of coalition or China will just play one off against the other.

However, we can make our own choices as individuals.

Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 08:05:02 pm
There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.

I think we already have.  We're sellouts and so is everyone else.

Australia is basically screwed.  Their economy is very entwined with China. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2021, 08:07:54 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.

They'll probably just pass a motion saying Canada is committing genocide.  Our government did abstain.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on February 23, 2021, 09:33:53 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.
Dictatorships are not in the best interest of the country and as I understand it the decision to acknowledge China's genocide is multi-lateral.  If anything our allies should be castigating us but I'm guessing maybe Biden knows that'll look pretty gauche when it comes to shrugging at Maine's good fortune come lobster season.

Trump would have just laughed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 23, 2021, 09:53:49 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.

That's why Cabinet abstained. It's the best of both worlds, the message got sent without the government being involved.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 23, 2021, 10:40:07 pm
That's why Cabinet abstained. It's the best of both worlds, the message got sent without the government being involved.

Theoretically. China still seems to have considered it a slight though. There was really no good outcome to the vote.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 24, 2021, 12:47:42 am
stay classy O'Foole, stay classy! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1364368302009585667/pu/vid/884x492/cBsdpPUqXmyoI_Jl.mp4?tag=10)  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/CDg57pW.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: cybercoma on February 24, 2021, 09:19:29 am
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.
This is a radical oversimplification since Walmart is a race to the bottom. They drive wages down, forcing people to look for cheaper products in their stores, which continues to drive their sales and expansion. The problem is more insidious than just "buy more expensive stuff, peasants!" There are serious structural changes that need to be made, not the least of which would be a Universal Basic Income, Universal Childcare, Pharmacare, Optometry, and Dentistry. These things would go a long way for people who struggle to make ends meet and need to shop at Walmart, rather than doing by choice. I would push the argument further and say that necessities of life should be publicly-funded or heavily subsidized: e.g., food, shelter, clothing, banking, insurance, telecommunication.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 24, 2021, 11:23:22 am
Theoretically. China still seems to have considered it a slight though. There was really no good outcome to the vote.

It was supposed to be a slight.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 24, 2021, 11:58:41 am
It was supposed to be a slight.

Great job...   we pissed them off to absolutely no effect whatsoever.  Canada going it alone makes zero sense.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 24, 2021, 01:56:45 pm
Great job...   we pissed them off to absolutely no effect whatsoever.  Canada going it alone makes zero sense.

As well as all of the opposition, over 80 Liberal back benchers disagree.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: JMT on February 24, 2021, 06:34:00 pm
As well as all of the opposition, over 80 Liberal back benchers disagree.

There was no way to vote against the motion. Everyone agrees with it. Bringing it forward in the first place was the problem.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 24, 2021, 06:36:41 pm
There was no way to vote against the motion. Everyone agrees with it. Bringing it forward in the first place was the problem.

We nearly all agree that Trump was a fuckin' idiot, harmful to his own people and responsible for probably 10s of thousands of deaths from COVID.  That doesn't mean that MPs should vote on a motion about it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 24, 2021, 06:53:57 pm
There was no way to vote against the motion. Everyone agrees with it. Bringing it forward in the first place was the problem.

They didn't have to vote at all, but they did.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on February 24, 2021, 09:45:36 pm
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.

There are lots of alternatives to Chinese stuff that aren't expensive.  Most of my electronics come from South Korea.  It's easy to find textiles from India and Bangladesh and other parts of south east Asia. The Philippines and Vietnam and Pakistan.

You mentioned this a few years ago and I didn't think much of it at the time, but in the last couple of years I have made a conscious decision to not buy Chinese made products, and there are lots of alternatives out there.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on February 24, 2021, 09:55:23 pm
Great job...   we pissed them off to absolutely no effect whatsoever.  Canada going it alone makes zero sense.

Who says we are going it alone?   The Trump administration already called it a genocide, and the Biden administration has reaffirmed that position.  Other countries will follow.

Remember "Canada's Back!" ...?     If we're too cowardly to denounce sickening human rights abuses if it costs us money, then "Canada's Back!" is just a fake dumb stupid slogan.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 24, 2021, 10:14:47 pm
There are lots of alternatives to Chinese stuff that aren't expensive.  Most of my electronics come from South Korea.  It's easy to find textiles from India and Bangladesh and other parts of south east Asia. The Philippines and Vietnam and Pakistan.

You mentioned this a few years ago and I didn't think much of it at the time, but in the last couple of years I have made a conscious decision to not buy Chinese made products, and there are lots of alternatives out there.

 -k

Oh, absolutely!  I try and avoid it like the plague...   My Apple products are Chinese, I think.  But I actively avoid clothing and other things made in China;  everything I possibly can.   

But, unless people do this en masse, or our trade with them is restricted, the average person will have a lot of Chinese goods.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 24, 2021, 10:32:37 pm
Who says we are going it alone?   The Trump administration already called it a genocide, and the Biden administration has reaffirmed that position.  Other countries will follow.

Remember "Canada's Back!" ...?     If we're too cowardly to denounce sickening human rights abuses if it costs us money, then "Canada's Back!" is just a fake dumb stupid slogan.

 -k

I mean that it is going to take multiple nations to take action together to cut China out of a lot of trade.  A little vote in Canada about some human rights issues in China won’t do it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on February 24, 2021, 10:36:41 pm
I mean that it is going to take multiple nations to take action together to cut China out of a lot of trade.  A little vote in Canada about some human rights issues in China won’t do it.

Somebody has to take the first step.  That wasn't us.  But we're the first to join them. And now that we have, others will follow.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 24, 2021, 10:45:43 pm
Great job...   we pissed them off to absolutely no effect whatsoever.  Canada going it alone makes zero sense.
Who says we are going it alone?   The Trump administration already called it a genocide, and the Biden administration has reaffirmed that position.  Other countries will follow.

Remember "Canada's Back!" ...?     If we're too cowardly to denounce sickening human rights abuses if it costs us money, then "Canada's Back!" is just a fake dumb stupid slogan.

oh my, member kimmy! The Trump admin (as in Pompeo) stated this on the very last day of the admin... the very day before Biden was to assume office.

recent CNN 'Town Hall' with Joe Biden: when asked about China’s human rights violations and genocide against the Uighurs: Biden doesn't go there; rather, he speaks to, uhhh... “cultural norms being different between the U.S. and China"! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1361877159615332353/pu/vid/1280x720/kKFjIeNIHmjJyJDQ.mp4?tag=10)

as for that CPC non-binding resolution - pure politics without regard to possible negative impacts upon said '2 Michaels' captivity.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 24, 2021, 11:02:38 pm

as for that CPC non-binding resolution - pure politics without regard to possible negative impacts upon said '2 Michaels' captivity.

The Chinese will give up the Micheals when Meng is back in China. Anyone who hasn't figured that out yet isn't paying attention or living in la la land.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on February 24, 2021, 11:12:56 pm
oh my, member kimmy! The Trump admin (as in Pompeo) stated this on the very last day of the admin... the very day before Biden was to assume office.

New Secretary of State Blinken reaffirmed Pompeo's stance a week later.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 25, 2021, 01:46:05 am
This is a radical oversimplification since Walmart is a race to the bottom. They drive wages down, forcing people to look for cheaper products in their stores, which continues to drive their sales and expansion. The problem is more insidious than just "buy more expensive stuff, peasants!" There are serious structural changes that need to be made, not the least of which would be a Universal Basic Income, Universal Childcare, Pharmacare, Optometry, and Dentistry. These things would go a long way for people who struggle to make ends meet and need to shop at Walmart, rather than doing by choice. I would push the argument further and say that necessities of life should be publicly-funded or heavily subsidized: e.g., food, shelter, clothing, banking, insurance, telecommunication.

It's not Walmart's fault, the capitalist global economy is a race to the bottom.  Walmart does what it does so that it can compete with Target and Costco etc, the same as any company that shipped manufacturing to China.  Government regulation pertaining to goods from China is the only thing that can realistically address the issue, save widescale consumer revolts against Chinese goods.  The problem is politicians are in bed with wealthy interests who benefit from Chinese trade, including Canadian corporations, wealthy Chinese private interests, and the CCP.  It's no different in the US.  The party doesn't matter because they all work within the same system.  The solution is to fix donation and lobbying laws, increase transparency, and end corruption.

At least Canadians and westerners are finally waking up to these problems.  We need to embrace sane, non-extreme moderate populist reformers (if they even exist), but instead our politics seems to be polarizing and the moderate politicians seem to be the most elitist and corrupt.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 25, 2021, 12:24:28 pm
The Chinese will give up the Micheals when Meng is back in China. Anyone who hasn't figured that out yet isn't paying attention or living in la la land.

of course! Yet somehow the CPC/O'Foole standard play is to continually attack the government for not doing anything to "bring them back"! Obviously the crux of the matter has to do with retalitory actions taken by the Chinese government in the face of Trump/admin's prior insistence that Canada support the extradition of Meng to the U.S..
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 25, 2021, 12:36:40 pm
oh my, member kimmy! The Trump admin (as in Pompeo) stated this on the very last day of the admin... the very day before Biden was to assume office.

recent CNN 'Town Hall' with Joe Biden: when asked about China’s human rights violations and genocide against the Uighurs: Biden doesn't go there; rather, he speaks to, uhhh... “cultural norms being different between the U.S. and China"! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1361877159615332353/pu/vid/1280x720/kKFjIeNIHmjJyJDQ.mp4?tag=10)

as for that CPC non-binding resolution - pure politics without regard to possible negative impacts upon said '2 Michaels' captivity.

New Secretary of State Blinken reaffirmed Pompeo's stance a week later.

in fact, that was Blinken's position within his confirmation hearing... before he was actually a part of the Biden admin. He may have reiterated it subsequently... but then again the overriding media review is highlighting Biden's recent town hall comments that I link-to/reference... that most certainly don't have President Biden using the 'genocide' labeling - how did you conveniently bypass/ignore that, hey! Go figure  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 25, 2021, 01:56:05 pm
of course! Yet somehow the CPC/O'Foole standard play is to continually attack the government for not doing anything to "bring them back"! Obviously the crux of the matter has to do with retalitory actions taken by the Chinese government in the face of Trump/admin's prior insistence that Canada support the extradition of Meng to the U.S..

That's what oppositions do and of course its retaliation for Meng. Where have you been, in a cave?

That doesn't mean we just shut up and take any crap China decides to dish out.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 25, 2021, 03:03:37 pm
That's what oppositions do and of course its retaliation for Meng. Where have you been, in a cave?

That doesn't mean we just shut up and take any crap China decides to dish out.

So should Canada have passed a resolution that Trump sucks and that his policies were killing countless Americans?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 25, 2021, 03:24:28 pm
So should Canada have passed a resolution that Trump sucks and that his policies were killing countless Americans?

If it met the UN definition of genocide, why not?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 25, 2021, 03:41:28 pm
If it met the UN definition of genocide, why not?

Why does it have to be a genocide?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 25, 2021, 04:42:40 pm
Why does it have to be a genocide?

Is genocide not enough?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on February 25, 2021, 05:50:09 pm
As far as the Micheals are concerned, the Meng fiasco has been going on for over two years now. It has become just another pathetic make work project for lawyers and the judiciary. Our legal system excels at them.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 25, 2021, 06:13:23 pm
Where have you been, in a cave?

speaking of your grandstanding knowItAllness! Are you and the CPC/O'Foole calling it a literal genocide... or a cultural genocide. Be specific/precise, hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 05, 2021, 01:22:25 am
oh my! The "Just Erin' campaign looks like a real winner - for desperation moves... any truth to it coming out as a result of that La Presse article stating O'Foole is now less popular than even former leader Just Andy Scheer?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30SBe2Al8-A
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 06, 2021, 12:59:44 pm
when weakAndy won't do... 'just Erin' hits the spot!

(https://i.imgur.com/HGnDFox.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 11, 2021, 07:46:31 pm
geezaz! When you lose EzRant...

(https://i.imgur.com/q5sxH4p.png)

As tensions rise in Conservative caucus, Erin O'Toole's leadership is put to the test (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/as-tensions-rise-in-conservative-caucus-erin-otooles-leadership-put-to-the-test?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1615050043) --- There’s a disconnect between O’Toole, who believes the party is in good shape electorally, and some members of caucus who feel the party is floundering
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 11, 2021, 11:54:55 pm
#pigeonPierre held the high profile assignment as the 'Finance Critic' for the CPC Opposition... in the HOC regularly going up against former Finance Minister Morneau, then moving on to Finance Minister Freeland. As Vice-Chair of the Finance Committee, Poilievre was always in the news... was regularly sought out by the media for comment on matters before the committee. Ever the snarky one, ever the one to throw barbs, to mock, to ridicule... Over time criticism of his "style" eventually caught up to him and Poilievre's time finally ran out as he lost this plum assignment... this key job/role.

even in the face of criticism from Poilievre, Prime Minister Trudeau showed his caring and expressed empathy for Poilievre losing his job in the throes of the pandemic! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1369837295629561859/pu/vid/1280x720/Gi3m6lheMUM3CakX.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 12, 2021, 07:46:12 am
geezaz! When you lose EzRant...
 

I honestly wish we had a better candidate who is also centrist.  If we don't get progressive conservatives back we will constantly be battling with a party that feeds the trolls.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: cybercoma on March 12, 2021, 09:21:55 am
geezaz! When you lose EzRant...

(https://i.imgur.com/q5sxH4p.png)

As tensions rise in Conservative caucus, Erin O'Toole's leadership is put to the test (https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/as-tensions-rise-in-conservative-caucus-erin-otooles-leadership-put-to-the-test?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1615050043) --- There’s a disconnect between O’Toole, who believes the party is in good shape electorally, and some members of caucus who feel the party is floundering
You hate to see it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 12, 2021, 11:54:39 am
You hate to see it.

is that the 'royal you' or the 'waldo you'?  ;D
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: cybercoma on March 12, 2021, 12:13:09 pm
is that the 'royal you' or the 'waldo you'?  ;D
It's the Erin's a **** tool "you."
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 12, 2021, 04:51:05 pm
I honestly wish we had a better candidate who is also centrist.  If we don't get progressive conservatives back we will constantly be battling with a party that feeds the trolls.

I like him better than Scheer though, at least so far.  Low bar though.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 14, 2021, 11:47:23 am
oh my - 'Folksy Fireside Chat (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1370572548899926023/pu/vid/888x462/0H0IZD8lefhrMH6T.mp4?tag=12)'!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on March 19, 2021, 08:48:13 pm
I didn't watch the speech, but I read the excerpts from O'Toole's speech and it looks like he's saying everything he needs to broaden the base.  He's talking environment, inclusiveness, mental-health and Trudeau's achilles heel -- domestic vaccine production. 

He outright said people are embarrassed to show support to the CPC because of the party's alliance with bigotry (not verbatim but to paraphrase).  That's pretty huge for a CPC leader to acknowledge. 

He's not just after Trudeau's supporters, he is even reaching out to working class union workers by saying NDP has abandoned them.  He talked about a very real phenomenon of Trudeau winning not necessarily because of his achievements but because of a lack of alternative. 

The CPC is too pro-business for my liking but if he's resonating with me, I can imagine that he may be able to reach some dismayed Trudeau voters.  He is definitely saying all the right things. 

Lucky for Trudeau, O'Toole has as much charisma as a wet paper bag, but then again, Harper happened too....
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 20, 2021, 12:17:56 am
(https://i.imgur.com/8sMJ0GY.png)
.
.
oh my! At the CPC policy convention earlier today: Conservatives actually debated whether to declare that 'climate change is real'  ;D

Quote
After grappling with Canadians' climate concerns in recent election cycles, Conservatives engaged in fierce debate today over a policy proposal from a Quebec riding to declare that "climate change is real."

The Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier riding association's proposed policy change would add green-friendly language to the Tory playbook.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on March 20, 2021, 01:18:40 pm
geezaz! When you lose EzRant...

(https://i.imgur.com/q5sxH4p.png)


If you've lost Ezra Levant, you must be doing something right.  No doubt he's mad that "real conservatives" like Derek Sloan and Cheryl Gallant aren't welcome.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 20, 2021, 01:29:47 pm
oh my! At the CPC policy convention earlier today: Conservatives actually debated whether to declare that 'climate change is real'  ;D

whaaa! 'Climate change is real' resolution voted down - oh my!

(https://i.imgur.com/phwVyDn.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on March 20, 2021, 04:10:00 pm
What a bunch of neanderthals.  Trudeau is going to be winning by default for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on March 20, 2021, 04:22:37 pm
It's hard to categorize this bunch as pro business when they're rejecting policies pursued by corporate Canada
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on March 20, 2021, 05:35:43 pm
whaaa! 'Climate change is real' resolution voted down - oh my!

AHAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!

The CPC is a party filled with loons.  NDP and Greens are filled with loons.  The Liberals are a party filled with arrogant self-righetous overly-coddled anal-retentive crooks (loons).  My faith in this country is pretty low, probably the lowest its ever been, which is sad.

(https://www.sdakotabirds.com/species/photos/common_loon.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 21, 2021, 12:45:04 pm
If you've lost Ezra Levant, you must be doing something right.  No doubt he's mad that "real conservatives" like Derek Sloan and Cheryl Gallant aren't welcome.

Derek Sloan? Don't stop there, hey... ohOpenlyGayOne, care to comment on the results of that Second Reading vote on Bill C-6 where:

=> 7 Conservatives voted NO... 2 Conservatives voted ABSTAINED... and 15 CONSERVATIVES didn't vote at all (like former leader Andrew Scheer). The HOC Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights recently completed its review of Bill C-6 and has sent the Bill with amendments to Third Reading. 

(https://i.imgur.com/f3XiCBe.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on March 22, 2021, 12:31:35 pm
Quote from: CPC leader Erin O'Toole
As important as climate change is, getting our economy back on track is more important
Quote from: Prime Minister Trudeau
If you do not have a plan for the environment, you do not have a plan for the economy

ConservativePartyOfCanada votes not to recognize climate crisis as real (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1373696577789825025/pu/vid/1280x720/bpAsQOv5tXzOghhy.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on March 28, 2021, 08:48:20 pm
Derek Sloan? Don't stop there, hey... ohOpenlyGayOne, care to comment on the results of that Second Reading vote on Bill C-6 where:

=> 7 Conservatives voted NO... 2 Conservatives voted ABSTAINED... and 15 CONSERVATIVES didn't vote at all (like former leader Andrew Scheer). The HOC Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights recently completed its review of Bill C-6 and has sent the Bill with amendments to Third Reading. 

(https://i.imgur.com/f3XiCBe.png)

As the token homo here, I support in principle the idea of a ban on conversion therapy.    And there's no doubt in my mind that Derek Sloan and others opposed C-6 because they're dickheads.   O'Toole will have ongoing challenges keeping the dickhead wing of the party on a tight leash, just as Stephen Harper did.   Nonetheless, Harper was PM for almost a decade and the alleged so-con assault on gay rights never materialized. I don't fear what might happen in the unlikely event of an O'Toole government either.

With that out of the way, there are reasons to be concerned about what a ban on conversion therapy might mean in practice.  Religious groups have their own objections regarding whether discussing religious principles could become criminalized; I personally don't give a crap about those guys.  Another concern, one that I take more seriously, is that a ban on conversion therapy could have a chilling effect on doctors trying to treat young people with gender identity issues. Gender identity issues can be a symptom of deeper problems, including trauma and sexual abuse and depression.  Some patients, and even some doctors, see gender identity as the root of all their problems when in reality it's just a symptom. There has been a major controversy going on in the UK over this, centered around the National Health Service's Tavistock Gender Identity Clinic. There is concern that some young people are being given hormones and mastectomies when what they really need is mental heath care. One of those young people-- Keira Bell-- successfully sued Tavistock for failing to adequately assess her needs and rushing her into a medical transition that she was too young to consent to.  A bill that fails to provide every assurance to doctors that they won't be accused of attempting conversion therapy for doing their due diligence for patients who want to transition is a bad bill. The last thing we would want when a patient shows up and says "I think I'm a boy, gimme some hormones right now" is for a doctor to decide that just giving her the hormones is safer than risking a complaint and a kerfuffle with the college of physicians if he challenges her self-diagnosis.

Lametti says the bill provides such assurances, but like C-16 it's probably going to be a "wait and see" thing to see how it actually turns out.

 -k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on April 01, 2021, 11:08:21 am
April O'Fooles Day!

(https://i.imgur.com/0xjGg5X.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on April 10, 2021, 06:45:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/Pyf80Ti.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 10, 2021, 08:22:26 pm
Trudeau had a lower approval rating (low to mid 30's) than Trump until Trudeau started giving tons of people free money, so don't get too excited wally.

Our federal leaders are a lineup of losers.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on April 11, 2021, 12:22:28 am
Mark Carney, former Goldman Sachs investment banker, Bank of Canada governor and Bank of England governor, had his so-called "political coming-out" during the just completed Liberal Party policy convention. Once it was announced last week that Carney was to appear/speak at the convention, CPC leader O'Foole and other CPC MPs began their attacks on Carney - conveniently forgetting it was Harper who appointed Carney to the governorship of the Bank of Canada!

even though O'Foole was forced to remove #PigeonPierre as the CPC Finance critic, Poilievre still felt he'd take a shot at Carney. By the by, it's rumoured that Carney will run in the coming election in Ottawa-Carleton - you know, the Pigeon's riding! 

Quote from: CPC MP Pierre Poilievre - #PigeonPierre
Now, with Mark Carney back in Canada, he and Justin Trudeau plan to promote risky economic ideas leading to bigger credit card debts and higher taxes. By contrast, Erin O'Toole's Conservatives offer more and better paycheques to secure our future. One of Canada's most well-known elites, Mark Carney will preach to Canadians about the need for higher energy prices. He will also promote trendy new economic experiments that are popular with Davos billionaires.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on April 27, 2021, 02:08:07 pm
Hey check out these 2 knobs:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/hillier-sloan-aylmer-church-charges-covid-19-1.6003365

edit:  glad the CPC booted both these losers out of the party.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on April 27, 2021, 11:11:19 pm
Apparently they have both been charged.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on May 05, 2021, 02:05:02 am
oh my! Buffalo Gal Rempel in full finger pointing whigOut during today's QP! (https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1389686684065861634/pu/vid/1298x720/9ligo6wUemHEfSmi.mp4?tag=12)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on May 19, 2021, 11:36:38 am
(https://i.imgur.com/Lcrjm5W.png)

whaaa! Shouldn't O'Foole be talking about 'freedom of expression'... it is Canada after all!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on May 26, 2021, 12:05:24 pm
so TorStar prints a {presumed} 'exclusive scoop' stating that CPC/O'Foole have hired the "advanced analytic firm" that worked on UK PM Boris Johnson's campaign... CPC spokesperson says no biggee as the group has actually been working for the CPC since September, 2020! That same day, twitter is on fire (eventually making it up to the mainstream) over the O'Foole tweet saying 'wifey had a cold one waiting for him' - and it only took the "comms team" 2 days to respond!

note: the waldo was aghast... aghast I say, at the comments suggesting 'largeMarge' needs to join hubby on his runs! Oh my!

(https://i.imgur.com/GcI62LX.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 26, 2021, 12:09:50 pm
My spouse had a cocktail and supper awaiting me when I got back from fishing the other day!  Does that make me not a liberal?  Am I against abortion now? 

Anyone who cares about this, or reads anything into it, or comments on Twitter about conservative anti-woman values based on this tweet, is a fuckin’ idiot.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on May 26, 2021, 12:28:17 pm
Anyone who cares about this, or reads anything into it, or comments on Twitter about conservative anti-woman values based on this tweet, is a fuckin’ idiot.

now do the 2-day's later response from the CPC/consultant braniacs who were, apparently, compelled to respond with O'Toole bringing "the lil' woman" a glass!

note: the waldo was aghast... aghast I say, at the numerous familyO'Foole photo montages put together that all revolve around alcohol! Oh my!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 26, 2021, 12:42:08 pm
now do the 2-day's later response from the CPC/consultant braniacs who were, apparently, compelled to respond with O'Toole bringing "the lil' woman" a glass!

note: the waldo was aghast... aghast I say, at the numerous familyO'Foole photo montages put together that all revolve around alcohol! Oh my!

The CPC political handlers, and O’Toole it seems, are cowards.   Nothing new there.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 01, 2021, 09:07:18 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/TBWaCwn.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 02, 2021, 10:43:03 am
(https://i.imgur.com/RYelUKv.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 02, 2021, 01:59:32 pm
They should have a contest of who is the phoniest fool, hey waldo?  Oh wait it's called a federal election.

Who is more the fool, the fool or the fool that follows him?...hey Waldo?

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13517/production/_108872197_trudeau_blackface_3_comp.jpg)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 02, 2021, 02:07:16 pm
They should have a contest of who is the phoniest fool, hey waldo?  Oh wait it's called a federal election.

Who is more the fool, the fool or the fool that follows him?...hey Waldo?

the waldo is heartened to see you reach for the blackface... and all it took was highlighting the photoshop on the O'Foole you follow, hey Gorgeous!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 02, 2021, 06:48:51 pm
The Waldo must be the happeh.

People are coming out of the pandemic... Libs riding high... election coming...

O'Toole will have a mighty short tenure it seems.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2021, 09:05:55 pm
Trudeau is still borrowing 3 billion a week and inflation is now 3.6%.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 02, 2021, 09:15:49 pm
The Waldo must be the happeh.

People are coming out of the pandemic... Libs riding high... election coming...

O'Toole will have a mighty short tenure it seems.

You think they’ll turf him if they lose? 

That’s part of the problem with their party…. They bail on their leaders lately. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 02, 2021, 10:28:40 pm
Not old at all. The BoC is buying 3 billion of government bonds every week, it now owns 40%  of the federal debt. The Fed owns less than 30% of US federal debt.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 03, 2021, 05:42:55 am
The Waldo must be the happy.

People are coming out of the pandemic... Libs riding high... election coming...

O'Toole will have a mighty short tenure it seems.

MH, you made me look... I had no idea!

(https://i.imgur.com/vQRebQq.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 03, 2021, 06:37:49 am

I'm not bedazzled by the Justin, but he has far exceeded my expectations and we have come through the pandemic. 

The Conservatives would have a clear path forward, if they could plot something bold in new in opposition to the mostly status quo stuff of the government.  But it's like wishing your cat could tap dance.  They are in the midst of pleading with the knuckle-draggers to allow them to mention Climate Change.

The NDP is Jagmeet ... nice guy but what's his plan ? 

Coming up are two interesting heavyweights: Chrystia Freeland and Mark Carney ....
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 04, 2021, 02:43:00 pm
and so it begins... choose CPC/O'Foole over that boogeyman coalition!

(https://i.imgur.com/NSNw2nP.png)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 05, 2021, 12:04:00 am
and so it begins... choose CPC/O'Foole over that boogeyman coalition!

In his defense, how many times did the Liberals side with only the CPC to pass any legislation?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 05, 2021, 12:13:32 am
I'm not bedazzled by the Justin, but he has far exceeded my expectations and we have come through the pandemic. 

The Conservatives would have a clear path forward, if they could plot something bold in new in opposition to the mostly status quo stuff of the government.  But it's like wishing your cat could tap dance.  They are in the midst of pleading with the knuckle-draggers to allow them to mention Climate Change.

The NDP is Jagmeet ... nice guy but what's his plan ? 

Coming up are two interesting heavyweights: Chrystia Freeland and Mark Carney ....

The competence levels of all federal parties is not good.  The CPC have had a decent shot at power the last 2 elections, and all they need to do is not have crazy people in their party, but of course that's probably not going to happen.  So here we are.

The NDP and Green Party are absolute joke.  The NDP would probably be forced more to the center though if they were govern, like they were under Mulcair when in official opposition.  But still, WTF does Singh know about geopolitics?  Trudeau knew jack all and look where that got us.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 05, 2021, 03:02:13 pm
In his defense, how many times did the Liberals side with only the CPC to pass any legislation?

I don't recall any.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 05, 2021, 05:43:34 pm
I don't recall any.

It’s sheer stupidity to try and divide the country into 2 camps…. Us and them.  What a piece of sh!t move by the Cons.

I’m no Lib supporter.  And I am even LESS likely to be a Con supporter after telling me, ”you’re either one of us, or you’re one of them”.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 05, 2021, 05:53:24 pm
guys, guys... waddabout that CPC/NDP uhhh... coalition; the one that voted against the motion respecting Senate amendments to Bill C-7, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (medical assistance in dying): all 24 NDP members voted 'NAY'

besides, after the 2019 election, PM Trudeau was quite willing to 'roll the minority government dice' rather than seek out a formal... or informal coalition:

Quote from: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
I intend to sit down with all party leaders in the coming weeks to talk about their priorities about how we can work together to respond to the preoccupations that Canadians have. But I can tell you it is not in our plans at all to form any sort of formal or informal coalition.

and good on ya member squiggy - CPC/O'Foole is just recycling that tried&true "them or us - fear the coalition" chestnut that Harper Conservatives championed!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on July 05, 2021, 06:05:20 pm
....besides, after the 2019 election, PM Trudeau was quite willing to 'roll the minority government dice' rather than seek out a formal... or informal coalition:
Why bother if he'd have lived up to his pledge that his first election would be Canada's last FPTP election?

Once a POS always a POS, that goes for FPTP too.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 05, 2021, 06:52:00 pm
breaking news... niggling member eyeball would be fine with ranked balloting!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on July 05, 2021, 11:55:12 pm
breaking news... niggling member eyeball would be fine with ranked balloting!
Yawn...strawman.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 06, 2021, 12:43:16 am
no - not a strawman... at all! If you're going to forevah whine about Electoral Reform, than you should be ready to acknowledge... accept... that in all the related review processes, no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting. What did become clear is the problem that can occur with proportional representation and the negative influence that fringe parties can hold over a functioning government!

surely you're not one of those wanting change just for the sake of change - surely!

Quote from: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
I will not move towards any form of proportional representation, but if people want to talk about a different system that might benefit Canadians, like a preferential ballot, I'd be open to that
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 08:44:11 am
It’s sheer stupidity to try and divide the country into 2 camps…. Us and them.  What a piece of sh!t move by the Cons.

I’m no Lib supporter.  And I am even LESS likely to be a Con supporter after telling me, ”you’re either one of us, or you’re one of them”.

Really? Remember this Liberal add from 2006.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unNZtCH9Mdo
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 10:35:48 am
no - not a strawman... at all! If you're going to forevah whine about Electoral Reform, than you should be ready to acknowledge... accept... that in all the related review processes, no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting. What did become clear is the problem that can occur with proportional representation and the negative influence that fringe parties can hold over a functioning government!

surely you're not one of those wanting change just for the sake of change - surely!

Bull, he promised electoral reform legislation within 18 months of forming government.

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/trudeau-pledges-to-end-first-past-the-post-electoral-system-if-elected-1.2424905
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 06, 2021, 10:40:23 am
Really? Remember this Liberal add from 2006.


Really!  Why don’t you bring this up with a Liberal supporter?  Didn’t I just mention that I’m not one?  But, when you do use your “whataboutism” with Lib supporters, you may want to try something more recent than 15 years ago.



Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 11:03:19 am
Really!  Why don’t you bring this up with a Liberal supporter?  Didn’t I just mention that I’m not one?  But, when you do use your “whataboutism” with Lib supporters, you may want to try something more recent than 15 years ago.

Really. Two wrongs don't make a right but they both do it. As a matter of fact, they all do it.

Harper won that election and 9 years later we were still waiting to see, "Soldiers in the streets, with guns". They did make it up.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 06, 2021, 11:16:14 am
Really. Two wrongs don't make a right but they both do it. As a matter of fact, they all do it.

Harper won that election and 9 years later we were still waiting to see, "Soldiers in the streets, with guns". They did make it up.

I’m not sure what you are debating here…. Or with whom. 

I am not a Lib supporter.

I didn’t think that was a good, or accurate, or truthful ad 15 years ago.

But it was 15 years ago….   Seriously…. You may want to find something from Libs that isn’t 15 years old that they did wrong.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 11:19:57 am
I’m not sure what you are debating here…. Or with whom. 

I am not a Lib supporter.

I didn’t think that was a good, or accurate, or truthful ad 15 years ago.

But it was 15 years ago….   Seriously…. You may want to find something from Libs that isn’t 15 years old that they did wrong.

No doubt you could if you bothered to look.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 06, 2021, 12:15:34 pm
No doubt you could if you bothered to look.

So I can not support the Libs even more? 

I’m beginning to think that you agree with O’Toole’s tweet that there’s two choices, not five?  But you don’t want to actually defend that, you just want to point out the “Libs did it 15 years ago”!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 12:43:38 pm
So I can not support the Libs even more? 

I’m beginning to think that you agree with O’Toole’s tweet that there’s two choices, not five?  But you don’t want to actually defend that, you just want to point out the “Libs did it 15 years ago”!

For Liberal and Conservative supporters there have always been only two choices.

On edit

That's why we will never see electoral reform from either one of them.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 06, 2021, 01:00:56 pm
For Liberal and Conservative supporters there have always been only two choices.

I don’t disagree.  They have been lying about this for as long as I’ve been a voter and paid attention.

Quote
On edit

That's why we will never see electoral reform from either one of them.

Agreed.  Trudeau found the first opportunity to jump off of the electoral reform platform that the Libs ran on.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on July 06, 2021, 02:39:46 pm
no - not a strawman... at all! If you're going to forevah whine about Electoral Reform, than you should be ready to acknowledge... accept...
Yes, pure strawman. You've never been ready to accept or acknowledge the dishonesty of any government run by the Liberal party - just as you can't accept that dishonest government is always at the heart of my schtick.

Quote
surely you're not one of those wanting change just for the sake of change - surely!
No just simple straightforward honesty from those who govern us will do - a paradigm shift to a partisan lickspittle I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 06, 2021, 04:22:03 pm
Really? Remember this Liberal ad from 2006.

FFS member wilber! How many times does this need to be beat-back? That so-called ad never ran... it was never approved to run. It was put up on the Liberal Party website by a staffer for all of 15 minutes or so - and then pulled at the request of party leader Martin after he saw it.

quit making shyte up, hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 04:37:16 pm
FFS member wilber! How many times does this need to be beat-back? That so-called ad never ran... it was never approved to run. It was put up on the Liberal Party website by a staffer for all of 15 minutes or so - and then pulled at the request of party leader Martin after he saw it.

quit making shyte up, hey!

Guess that's why it was all over the media. Good way to get free advertising.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 06, 2021, 04:41:14 pm
no - not a strawman... at all! If you're going to forevah whine about Electoral Reform, than you should be ready to acknowledge... accept... that in all the related review processes, no clear choice emerged for an alternative system of voting. What did become clear is the problem that can occur with proportional representation and the negative influence that fringe parties can hold over a functioning government!

surely you're not one of those wanting change just for the sake of change - surely!

Quote from: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
I will not move towards any form of proportional representation, but if people want to talk about a different system that might benefit Canadians, like a preferential ballot, I'd be open to that

Bull, he promised electoral reform legislation within 18 months of forming government.

no public consensus on an alternate presented itself... polls consistently showed that a majority of those polled did not want to change the electoral system. Pointedly, also consistently from the point the campaign suggestion was made, PM Trudeau repeatedly stated he did not favour going directly to the people (as in a referendum approach to determine an alternative). The waldo's recall has you, member wilber, repeatedly touting the B.C. electoral referendums... that is until the waldo showcased just what a sham they were... related posts can certainly be replayed if you'd like to dance again!

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 06, 2021, 04:45:41 pm
FFS member wilber! How many times does this need to be beat-back? That so-called ad never ran... it was never approved to run. It was put up on the Liberal Party website by a staffer for all of 15 minutes or so - and then pulled at the request of party leader Martin after he saw it.

quit making shyte up, hey!

Guess that's why it was all over the media. Good way to get free advertising.

again, it was not a formal ad and never played anywhere. Of course some intrepid weasel captured it even in the minimal time it actually existed on the party website before being taken down... and since that time (now some 15 years later), misinforming Conservative supporting types... like you member wilber... keep plying this nonsense, over and over and over again! Get a grip hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 06, 2021, 07:35:04 pm


no public consensus on an alternate presented itself... polls consistently showed that a majority of those polled did not want to change the electoral system. Pointedly, also consistently from the point the campaign suggestion was made, PM Trudeau repeatedly stated he did not favour going directly to the people (as in a referendum approach to determine an alternative). The waldo's recall has you, member wilber, repeatedly touting the B.C. electoral referendums... that is until the waldo showcased just what a sham they were... related posts can certainly be replayed if you'd like to dance again!

Trudeau never put any options to the public. When the opposition wouldn't go for his ranked ballot system, he used it as an excuse to back away entirely.

If a twice elected MP and son of one of the longest serving prime ministers doesn't understand the implications of any proportional or ranked system before he made the promise, he is either dumber than a sack of hammers or being deliberately dishonest during an election campaign.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 06, 2021, 11:47:14 pm
When the opposition wouldn't go for his ranked ballot system, he used it as an excuse to back away entirely.

more member wilber porkies! Again:

no public consensus on an alternate presented itself... polls consistently showed that a majority of those polled did not want to change the electoral system. Pointedly, also consistently from the point the campaign suggestion was made, PM Trudeau repeatedly stated he did not favour going directly to the people (as in a referendum approach to determine an alternative). The waldo's recall has you, member wilber, repeatedly touting the B.C. electoral referendums... that is until the waldo showcased just what a sham they were... related posts can certainly be replayed if you'd like to dance again!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 07, 2021, 12:11:39 am
Unlike other jurisdictions who have debated electoral reform, Trudeau never put anything to the people.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 07, 2021, 12:14:19 am
Unlike other jurisdictions who have debated electoral reform, Trudeau never put anything to the people.

I'm waiting for you to resurrect the "B.C. experience" - cause that went so well... cause that was so representative and really showcased an informed electorate - NOT!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 07, 2021, 10:29:37 am
No insults. 

Posts have been removed.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: wilber on July 07, 2021, 10:58:06 am
I'm waiting for you to resurrect the "B.C. experience" - cause that went so well... cause that was so representative and really showcased an informed electorate - NOT!

At least BC let the people decide. Twice. Trudeau is afraid to give them that kind of control over their own future.

So lets just cancel all future elections and hand complete control to the Liberal Party of Canada which knows what is best for us. We can be just like the China that Trudeau admired so much.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 07, 2021, 12:14:57 pm
At least BC let the people decide. Twice. Trudeau is afraid to give them that kind of control over their own future.

and they were both charades - as well discussed previously. Hey, if you'd like resurrect that thread again - show just how abysmally weak the effort/results were... go for it!

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on July 07, 2021, 12:26:22 pm
We can be just like the China that Trudeau admired so much.

recycling that ole chestnut - you're showing such desperation! In that context of a 'green economy and green technologies', of rapidly turning an economy and investments towards renewables:

Quote from: PM Trudeau
There’s a level of admiration I actually have for China, because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually turn their economy around on a dime and say, 'We need to go green … we need to start investing in solar.'

CPC/O'Foole supporters who purposely misinform!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 18, 2021, 11:22:59 am
O’Toole has an issue….   

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-otoole-faces-damaging-prospect-of-a-televised-hybrid-parliament-for/

Quote
It’s not that Conservative MPs will defend the right of Canadians to remain unvaccinated. It’s that they will be among the Canadians who choose to remain unvaccinated.

Politically, that’s a whole different picture. And it is the one Canadians could well see on their TV screens five or six weeks from now. So far, the Tories haven’t figured out what to do about that.

Tories who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it, as they have for more than a century

It won’t be so easy for Mr. O’Toole to settle. The Conservative Leader hasn’t said publicly how many of his MPs have declined vaccination, or even told his own caucus. But there are certainly some, such as B.C. MP Mark Strahl, who argued the party must fight any requirement for MPs to get vaccinated before they sit in the Commons.

Mr. O’Toole has to navigate a faction of his own caucus that wants to refuse to get vaccinated and a broader public that doesn’t have much patience for that stand.

It will be damaging to the party to highlight every time parliament is in session just how many crackpots are part of the Conservative Party. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on October 18, 2021, 12:41:56 pm
recycling that ole chestnut - you're showing such desperation! In that context of a 'green economy and green technologies', of rapidly turning an economy and investments towards renewables:

CPC/O'Foole supporters who purposely misinform!
So Trudeau was lying and doesn't admire China's government for the stated reasons?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: The Cynic on October 18, 2021, 04:16:25 pm
recycling that ole chestnut - you're showing such desperation! In that context of a 'green economy and green technologies', of rapidly turning an economy and investments towards renewables:

And you in turn bring up that old chestnut, WALL-E, the one that Trudeau's friend and mentor Gerald Butthead oversaw in Ontario and which almost ran the province into bankruptcy. Yeah, yeah, the green economy is going to make us rich once we do away with the only natural advantage Canada has over other countries, that being our natural resources and the world demand for them. We, of course, have no advantage whatever for a green economy beyond what we've already exploited in hydro resources. But don't let that stop you driving away jobs and impoverishing the country.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2021, 12:00:48 am
So Trudeau was lying and doesn't admire China's government for the stated reasons?

no - I provided the missing context that purposely misinforming O'Toole/CPC supporters fail to include/mention - try rereading it again, hey!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on October 19, 2021, 12:25:28 am
And you in turn bring up that old chestnut, the one that Trudeau's friend and mentor Gerald Butts oversaw in Ontario.....

waldo, isn't that the guy who was instrumental in phasing out Ontario's coal-fired power plants... and bringing in the federal carbon tax? That's a helleva chestnut, hey! Yes waldo, it's clear Butts' key architect role for both Liberal McGuinty's and PM Trudeau’s electoral victories positions him as the arch-nemesis to failed Conservative supporters!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: eyeball on October 19, 2021, 12:55:13 am
no - I provided the missing context that purposely misinforming O'Toole/CPC supporters fail to include/mention - try rereading it again, hey!
Like providing the missing consensus that was never included/mentioned by Trudeau when he pledged no more FPTP?  Okay,  I get that.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: The Cynic on October 19, 2021, 03:13:33 pm
waldo, isn't that the guy who was instrumental in phasing out Ontario's coal-fired power plants... and bringing in the federal carbon tax? That's a helleva chestnut, hey! Yes waldo, it's clear Butts' key architect role for both Liberal McGuinty's and PM Trudeau’s electoral victories positions him as the arch-nemesis to failed Conservative supporters!

Not to mention to economic growth and balanced budgets, WALL-E.

But then, economic growth is not really on the Liberal party agenda, now is it.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 01, 2022, 11:22:01 am
Quote
MPs opposed to O'Toole's leadership have collected enough signatures — 35 so far — to hold a secret ballot to decide his fate, sources said.
. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/erin-otoole-leadership-review-caucus-1.6334491

Will O’Toole survive the vote by MPs?

There are 119 Con MPs.  What are the chances that 60 vote to oust him?  35 (30%) already signed a petition to do so…. They need 25 more.

35 already seems like a lot.  Can you govern your party effectively when 30% of your MPs are openly out to get you, and a number of others are secretly out to get you?

Popcorn time!! 

I would like to see the PC wing kick out the SoCon/Alberta/Sask wing.  Just for entertainment value, it would be good.  But it would also get rid of a fringe group that shouldn’t hold as much political power that they do, given their numbers.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2022, 11:30:42 am

I would like to see the PC wing kick out the SoCon/Alberta/Sask wing.  Just for entertainment value, it would be good.  But it would also get rid of a fringe group that shouldn’t hold as much political power that they do, given their numbers.

Seems unlikely.  They can't shake the loud minority of anti-environment anti-trade anti-progress types and these are the ones calling O'Toole Trudeau lite. 

Frankly, the NDP seems more likely to be opposition and maybe even government in the medium term.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 01, 2022, 11:35:20 am
a vote on O'Toole's leadership... as early as tomorrow!

geezaz, Liberal supporters are so 'scared' that the Cons will {finally} do the right thing and select #PigeonPierre as their next party leader! Don't do it, for the luv of gawd, don't do it!

waldo factoid: a vote by 50%+1 of the 119 sitting Conservative MPs would force O'Toole to make way for an interim leader immediately.

media musings:
=> sources tell CBC News that O'Toole's caucus opponents believe they have the necessary votes, with at least 60 MPs agreeing that he has to go
=> according to the Globe and Mail, sources claim that they have at least 63 of 119 Conservative members who will vote O’Toole out

(https://media2.ledevoir.com/images_galerie/nwd_780997_615714/image.jpg)

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 01, 2022, 11:55:35 am
a vote on O'Toole's leadership... as early as tomorrow!

geezaz, Liberal supporters are so 'scared' that the Cons will {finally} do the right thing and select #PigeonPierre as their next party leader! Don't do it, for the luv of gawd, don't do it!
 

oh FFS ... if they do this they should just throw in the towel ... the fringe PPC types are running the show - vocally denouncing any climate action, etc. 

Dunno...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 02, 2022, 01:42:47 am
Feb 2020 - this certainly aged well!

(https://i.imgur.com/EltStGR.gif)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Boges on February 02, 2022, 08:44:14 am
CPC can't get out of its own way.

If they move further to the Right, it'll be hard to see them ever getting broad suburban support in Eastern Canada.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2022, 10:01:35 am
CPC can't get out of its own way.

If they move further to the Right, it'll be hard to see them ever getting broad suburban support in Eastern Canada.

I propose this:

1. Right 10-20% go join the PPC and take them to 10-15% of electorate
2. Remainder go to Liberals
3. Left 20% of Liberals go to NDP

When all falls out you will have Liberals and NDP in the mainstream where they belong and a happy minority of hard right that can support the odd Liberal govt. from time to time...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 02, 2022, 12:27:22 pm
O’Toole is out!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/otoole-leadership-vote-1.6336336
Quote
The result wasn't particularly close: 73 of the 118 MPs on hand — the party's caucus chair, Scott Reid, did not cast a ballot — voted to replace O'Toole with someone else.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2022, 12:31:34 pm
oh FFS....

BLAM !  Other foot... shot...

NICE WORK CONVOY YOU REALLY PUT THE BOOTS TO TRUDEAU
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 02, 2022, 12:36:47 pm
oh FFS....

BLAM !  Other foot... shot...

NICE WORK CONVOY YOU REALLY PUT THE BOOTS TO TRUDEAU

Cons really do think that winning 20% more in Alberta/Saskatchewan is the path to power….  It’s delusional. 

I wonder is this means Sloan will be back in as an MP…?? 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 02, 2022, 01:01:50 pm
oh FFS....

BLAM !  Other foot... shot...

NICE WORK CONVOY YOU REALLY PUT THE BOOTS TO TRUDEAU

Owning turdeau by handing him another majority government.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2022, 01:03:41 pm
Owning turdeau by handing him another majority government.

Wrong - successive majorities - until they go back to the far-right darlings that are unelectable for a few elections... by that time we will have Freeland as PM.

One party rule... meh
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 02, 2022, 01:11:30 pm
Wrong - successive majorities - until they go back to the far-right darlings that are unelectable for a few elections... by that time we will have Freeland as PM.

One party rule... meh

It's not great, but the Cons have only themselves to blame.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on February 02, 2022, 01:35:58 pm
Cons really do think that winning 20% more in Alberta/Saskatchewan is the path to power….  It’s delusional. 

I wonder is this means Sloan will be back in as an MP…??

I kind of saw O’Toole as a Harper: build a rapport first election (but lose) then come back and win when the Liberals’ scandals catch up finally.

He wasn’t rabid enough but the dummies fail to see that’s a good thing.

Or maybe they don’t want PP to gain traction.





Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 02, 2022, 01:51:05 pm
1. I kind of saw O’Toole as a Harper: build a rapport first election (but lose) then come back and win when the Liberals’ scandals catch up finally.

2. He wasn’t rabid enough but the dummies fail to see that’s a good thing.
 

1. That indeed is the model.  Once in awhile people are so sick of a party (16 years of Liberals 1984, 9 years of Conservatives 1993) that they give a first timer a majority

2. There are so many people in Quebec, I suspect, who could pull it off...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 02, 2022, 03:58:49 pm
In question period today, the Libs, NDP and BQ leaders acknowledged O’Toole’s service to Parliament and Canadians. 

Who didn’t say a word about O’Toole today…?  The Conservative Party. 

Man, those must have been some long knives wielded in much anger into his back!  Ouch.

 

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2022, 08:32:05 am
In question period today, the Libs, NDP and BQ leaders acknowledged O’Toole’s service to Parliament and Canadians. 

Who didn’t say a word about O’Toole today…?  The Conservative Party. 

Man, those must have been some long knives wielded in much anger into his back!  Ouch.

Good insight. 

Does Michael Chong have a chance ?  If so is it greater than 1% ?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2022, 09:46:39 am
They went with MAGA Murphy Brown for interim leader? Good god.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2022, 10:10:00 am
They went with MAGA Murphy Brown for interim leader? Good god.

Maybe to cut her out of the running - reduce her influence ? 

This thread needs some @waldo - even the haters must acknowledge his insider angle on these things ...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 03, 2022, 11:13:05 am
Maybe to cut her out of the running - reduce her influence ? 

By giving her a big platform?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on February 03, 2022, 11:19:07 am
By giving her a big platform?

Agree, I saw that as a sign of things to come too. Love the Murphy Brown reference btw, that’s hilarious.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 03, 2022, 01:15:00 pm
By giving her a big platform?

As interim leader, I think she has to be neutral as to the horse race...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 04, 2022, 09:19:21 pm
Good insight. 

Does Michael Chong have a chance ?  If so is it greater than 1% ?

Maybe the CPC is too nutty for Chong.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 04, 2022, 10:51:37 pm
Maybe the CPC is too nutty for Chong.

He sticks with them, despite getting boo’ed off the stage when he dared suggest a carbon tax when he ran for leader. 

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: waldo on February 06, 2022, 02:04:45 pm
so Poilievre (aka skippy) announces his intent to run for... PM - yes, that's right, for Prime Minister; apparently, he's skipping that pesky CPC leadership thingee!

(https://i.imgur.com/Zm3TgZV.gif)

oh my! Of late, is there anything more cringeworthy than this announcement (https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1490088463894339584/vid/1280x720/TfZoJbW8poMwS5Ch.mp4?tag=14) - that oddly is released in the 'dead of a Friday night'!

but really, c'mon which skippy will be running:
- the guy needing to secure {enough} caucus endorsements to ease the CPC leadership convention path; and/or
- the guy needing to play to the far-right CPC members just to win the CPC leadership, or
- the guy needing to balance the membership want against an eventual CPC national candidate... you know, one that can actually get elected while faking a shift to the moderate centre; a move that neither Scheer or O'Toole could manage!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2022, 02:08:06 pm
Calling Pierre "skippy" is something I agree with because he looks like a "skippy"
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 06, 2022, 02:08:56 pm
If the CPC wants to lose they will elect Pierre as leader.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 09:29:23 am
If the CPC wants to lose they will elect Pierre as leader.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/946/559/443)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 09:32:40 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENgrHc-XkAAQn2y?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 09:48:45 am
Random unnamed person!  Wow, I’m sold!  He’s not anymore petulant etc, than Trudeau, except he actually knows what he’s doing, and not a complete empty suit.

(https://c.tenor.com/aQkcpRhiXHkAAAAM/laughing-cracking-up.gif)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 10:24:10 am
Keep supporting the clueless drama teacher.! 😂

Real working class people support the guy who was elected MP straight out of university at age 25 and has been on the government tit ever since.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2022, 10:30:05 am
Drama Teacher = real job
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2022, 10:30:43 am
Also telling that Trudeau taught math and other subjects but we focus on 'drama' because ... who knows ...

If he was a garbageman could I make fun of that too ?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 10:39:05 am
He also taught wearing black face.

Another lie from the lying liar.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 10:59:34 am
I’m being sarcastic.  He did enjoy it though.

Saying a statement you know to be a lie isn't "sarcasm," it's just lying.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 07, 2022, 11:05:55 am
I should e transfer you some money so that you can buy yourself a sense of humour.

How about I set up a GoFundMe.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: segnosaur on February 07, 2022, 02:35:46 pm
Quote
They went with MAGA Murphy Brown for interim leader? Good god.
Quote
Maybe to cut her out of the running - reduce her influence ?
Quote
By giving her a big platform?
What are the rules of the leadership race?

I know in some cases, they have a rule that an interim leader is banned from participating in a leadership race (for the reason you alluded to... their position would give them an unfair advantage.) That might be the case this time as well.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: segnosaur on February 07, 2022, 02:41:56 pm
If the CPC wants to lose they will elect Pierre as leader.
Frankly I think the CPC might be screwed either way.

Their flirtation with "Trumpism" and/or social conservatism (e.g. their support for the trucker rally) will probably lose them votes and fracture the party, repeating the debacle from the time of Chretien when divisions allowed the Liberals to win elections against a divided right wing.

I myself have voted conservative in the past. Many times. (Well, OK, usually only once per election.) But I will not vote for a party that takes a hard-right populist turn. (Granted, I am in one of the safest Liberal ridings in the country so my vote has no real impact. But I suspect there are others in more balanced ridings that feel the same way.)
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 07, 2022, 03:25:54 pm
Far right folks LOVE the Pierre... others seem to hate him.

I don't see why on either side...

His rhetoric is par for the course... but what about his policies.  He studied economics and I can't find any references to what exactly he worked on.  Chances are he's going to have to deal with trade deals and immigration as PM.  I wonder if he has ideas about that 🤔
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: segnosaur on February 07, 2022, 04:11:49 pm
Far right folks LOVE the Pierre... others seem to hate him.

I don't see why on either side...
Well according to Wikipedia, he is against carbon taxes (He claims they "won't do enough" to stop global warming, but I have not yet seen anything from him indicating any sort of alternative actions), he voted against same sex marriage (admittedly common among MPs at the time, but has since changed and currently says that gay marriage is a success) and supports the "Freedom convoy".

If you are a moderate conservative who believes in taking a rational, evidence-based approach to things, you might be hesitant to support him based on the above.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 07, 2022, 06:45:21 pm
I thought Conservatives wanted their leaders to have real world experience….   

Poilievre has never held a job outside of being a politician.

I can’t find anything about whether Bergen has ever held a job either.

Anyone know?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 08, 2022, 08:48:20 am
Another lie from the lying liar.

Seems like a joke and a funny one...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 08, 2022, 08:50:23 am
I thought Conservatives wanted their leaders to have real world experience….   

Poilievre has never held a job outside of being a politician.

I can’t find anything about whether Bergen has ever held a job either.

Anyone know?

Pierre definitely does NOT, as evidenced by the MLW types falling over to defend him for having 'political experience' ... 🤔

Meanwhile they still **** on Trudeau for being a 'drama teacher' because let's face it teachers are scum, and when you see your kid's teacher and marvel at how well your kid has been helped, taught and effectively raised ... well it's all you can do to stop yourself from spitting in her face right ?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on February 08, 2022, 11:58:43 am
Seems like a joke and a funny one...

Shady is a know ****.




what, I'm just being, uh, sarcastic.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 08, 2022, 03:01:56 pm
Shady’s posts are all removed.  If Shady responds to any of my topics, don’t respond.  I will delete them as soon as I can.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: segnosaur on February 08, 2022, 04:19:05 pm
Quote
Shady’s posts are all removed.  If Shady responds to any of my topics, don’t respond.  I will delete them as soon as I can.
But... where are you going to get such deep philosophical insights, posted in the form of a meme downloaded from some neo-nazi web site?

Where are you going to get our intellectual development, were it not for Shady repeatedly asking questions that had been answered many times before?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on February 08, 2022, 04:40:30 pm
Shady’s posts are all removed.

Why now?

Have we invited drama?

🤨
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: segnosaur on February 08, 2022, 04:45:21 pm
Why now?
I can certainly understand why someone would want to limit the ability of a troll to derail a thread.

Its one thing to have opposing viewpoints, but when a thread gets bombarded with empty-headed gifs downloaded from neo-nazi web sites and repeated questions that have already been answered, it kind of makes it hard to have any sort of serious conversation.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 09, 2022, 08:09:58 pm
Why now?

Have we invited drama?

🤨

No, I have been doing this for a while. 

Abortion pictures....   stupid memes... idiotic drivel...  He is banned from my threads. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 23, 2022, 05:36:11 pm
Jean Charest? 

Guaranteed to get zero support from Alberta to Manitoba.

Guaranteed to bring instant credibility to the party again.

I don’t think he could win the leadership of this group of so-con, Trump wannabes.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-open-letter-signed-by-mps-and-others-urges-jean-charest-bid-to-lead/

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on February 23, 2022, 05:59:45 pm
Jean Charest? 

Guaranteed to get zero support from Alberta to Manitoba.

Guaranteed to bring instant credibility to the party again.

I don’t think he could win the lehttps://canadianpoliticalevents.createaforum.com/index.php?action=post;msg=86680;topic=1059.360adership of this group of so-con, Trump wannabes.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-open-letter-signed-by-mps-and-others-urges-jean-charest-bid-to-lead/

Snake in the grass.  His services are open to the highest bidder:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-charest-advising-huawei-in-meng-wanzhou-case-and-on-5g-networks/
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on February 23, 2022, 06:21:14 pm
Snake in the grass.  His services are open to the highest bidder:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-charest-advising-huawei-in-meng-wanzhou-case-and-on-5g-networks/

What’s the issue there?  You think someone hiring a consultant means that the consultant automatically supports their views?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 03, 2022, 12:21:02 pm
The big tent party that allows all thought and opinion has told its MPs to STFU about the Supreme Court abortion decision. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/8805638/conservatives-told-to-stay-quiet-on-leaked-u-s-supreme-court-abortion-draft-decision/amp/
Quote
The instruction comes as Conservative leadership hopefuls are scheduled to assemble in Ottawa for an annual conference of the movement’s faithful. The “Canada Strong and Free Network” – formally known as the Manning Centre for Building Democracy – has a leadership candidate’s debate scheduled for Thursday night, in advance of a weekend of workshops and speeches.

It is likely that the leaked U.S. Supreme Court draft decision will be a hot topic among the social conservative crowd that frequent the conference.

Also, that’s quite the name change for the conference!  LOL
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 03, 2022, 03:04:51 pm
Social conservatives cry foul over not getting all of their crackpots onto the Conservative Party ballot. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-leadership-race-social-conservative-1.6438257

Quote
"It's another lynching of social conservatives. They're trying to cancel us and it's a total disgrace. This is what Red Tories do. Red Tories cheat. They're dishonest and they don't like to play fair. They're corrupt," Fonseca told CBC News.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on May 03, 2022, 03:55:06 pm
I really hate it when conservatives call every little slight they experience a lynching. It's like they deliberately want to downplay what a lynching actually is
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 05, 2022, 03:29:20 pm
At least this leadership race isn’t boring….

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6441262

Quote
"The attempt to have Mr. Etienne removed from a building, as though he was a trespasser or a criminal, trying to use coercive force, was humiliating to Mr. Etienne, a Black Canadian," the report reads.

Etienne also claims he was questioned at length about his work with Falun Gong, a Chinese religious movement that has been outlawed by the People's Republic of China. He claims party officials were concerned that his advocacy work with this group would attract negative attention from some voters.

"To his great surprise, the matter that was put to Mr. Etienne by LEOC was that his lifelong human rights work defending the persecuted Chinese Falun Gong community ... would cause problems for the party in terms of the party's electability with Canadians of Chinese heritage and origin," the report reads.

"LEOC [is] improperly and outrageously conflating the interests of the Chinese Communist Party and the interests of the Chinese-Canadian community."
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 05, 2022, 04:25:54 pm
At least this leadership race isn’t boring….

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6441262

He's also Jewish so that's an interesting twist.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on May 05, 2022, 04:48:37 pm
At least this leadership race isn’t boring….

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6441262

Starting to sound like the rigged UCP leadership race here in Alberta.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 11, 2022, 08:01:35 pm
Goddamn CBC is the only network to carry the Conservative debate.  We need more corporate tv networks to fight this rightwing agenda by the CBC. 

Defund the rightwing cbc. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 11, 2022, 08:47:35 pm
Yikes.  Con candidates have gone all-in on the anti-mask, anti-lockdown nuttery. 

Lewis hates EVs.  😆
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 18, 2022, 05:32:24 am
Poilievre... Bitcoin promoter... Bitcoin investor..


https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-personally-holds-investment-in-bitcoin-as-he-promotes-crypto-to-canadians-1.5907615
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 18, 2022, 09:32:50 pm
Ed Fast out as Conservative finance critic after criticizing Poilievre. 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6458679

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on May 18, 2022, 09:54:03 pm
Pierre is a meme.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 21, 2022, 08:44:00 pm
Leadership candidate Lewis is a total crackpot conspiratard.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6460159

Quote
Lewis claims the WHO could impose lockdowns and restrictions in Canada as it sees fit, and could restrict the types of medications doctors could prescribe.

"It could give power for … the WHO to determine whether or not [in] a country like Canada, whether you'd be able to travel within or outside the country depending on the severity of the pandemic," said Lewis, who holds a PhD in international law from York University.

Lewis also claimed the treaty would allow the WHO to suspend the constitutions of signatory nations.

"Think about it — you would not be able to hold your elected officials accountable for the action of the WHO," she said. "It is essentially eroding our democracy."

'They just don't have the power to do that'

"This is nothing more than fearmongering. There is nothing to support these really strong assertions," said Prof. Timothy Caulfield, Canada Research Chair in Health Law and Policy at the University of Alberta.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 21, 2022, 09:00:39 pm
What a **** show.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 24, 2022, 04:08:25 pm
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-poilievre-shills-conspiracy-theories-to-sell-memberships

Conservatives realizing Poilievre’s conspiracies are probably going to win him the leadership….  and lose them the chance to form government. 

Quote
The people Poilievre is pitching to with this message truly believe this shadowy organization has actual power in Canada and those who have attended have been indoctrinated by Schwab. I don’t think Stephen Harper was when he spoke to the forum about the need to control government debt, rein in spending and make decisions for future economic growth and prosperity.

In his 2012 address, Harper took his vision for where western democratic countries should be heading directly to those business and government leaders. Harper spoke of the investment climate his government was creating, the need to be able to export our energy to Asia and beyond, the need to reform social programs so that they were on a solid footing instead of following Europe’s path to fiscal instability.

Under a Poilievre government, Canada wouldn’t be selling itself on one of the most important stages in the world.

Poilievre is a smart man; he knows that what he’s saying on this file is nothing but gibberish. He doesn’t need to flirt with and encourage the acceptance of conspiracy theories to win the leadership, but that’s what he’s doing.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on May 24, 2022, 04:50:24 pm
What the hell?? I've never heard of the Sun publishing an anti-conservative leader column like that.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on May 24, 2022, 05:07:24 pm
What the hell?? I've never heard of the Sun publishing an anti-conservative leader column like that.

Want some sad entertainment?  Read the comments at the bottom of the article.  It’s a shitshow of crackpots advocating the crazy conspiracies! 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on May 25, 2022, 09:49:42 am
What the hell?? I've never heard of the Sun publishing an anti-conservative leader column like that.

From Brian Lilley, one of the biggest CPC fart-sniffers around, no less.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 03, 2022, 07:48:39 pm
Saskatchewan MP Cathay Wagantall was escorted off Parliament Hill

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-mp-house-removed-1.6477120

Quote
Wagantall said that after she entered the building, the Sergeant-at-Arms asked to speak to her in his office. She didn't offer details of that conversation but said that as she headed to the Commons chamber, Conservative House leader John Brassard warned her that there might be action to remove her if she left the Commons.

"So my goal was to not leave unless I was basically forced to," she said.

Wagantall said that when she left the building to attend a 1 p.m. Veterans Affairs committee meeting, the Sergeant-at-Arms escorted her off Parliament Hill to her car. She ended up attending the meeting virtually.

Wagantall — who also cannot board a plane or train because of vaccination rules — said she's been driving to Ottawa from her riding in Saskatchewan. She said she has not been in her Parliament Hill office since November of last year.

Another crackpot Conservative MP.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: kimmy on June 07, 2022, 02:06:47 am
Saskatchewan MP Cathay Wagantall was escorted off Parliament Hill

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-mp-house-removed-1.6477120

Another crackpot Conservative MP.

I think we all agree that anti-vaxxers are stupid.

But at this point there's no longer any justification for a vaccine mandate in Parliament.  You can have 18000 people in a hockey arena without vaccine mandates, but not 300 or so MPs?  Come on.

Air travel, too. It's just theatre at this point.


-k
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Boges on June 08, 2022, 02:12:24 pm
With the re-election of DoFo in Ontario, we'll see a rift in the two major Conservative leaders in the country.

Pierre P will not find an ally in much of Ontario. I really hope Patrick Brown can win the leadership race.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 08, 2022, 02:44:55 pm
Well he can't speak French but ok...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 08, 2022, 03:37:34 pm
With the re-election of DoFo in Ontario, we'll see a rift in the two major Conservative leaders in the country.

Pierre P will not find an ally in much of Ontario. I really hope Patrick Brown can win the leadership race.

WTF is so great about Brown?  He was a social conservative when he was an MP.  Or was that pretend?  Or is he pretending now?  Or did he change his mind?  What made him change his mind?  Will he change it again?

Quote
As a federal MP, Brown had been one of the more socially conservative members of the Conservative caucus.[121][122][123] As an MP, Brown voted to re-open the same-sex marriage and abortion debates, and also voted against legalizing euthanasia and including gender expression in the Canadian Human Rights Act. He later said those votes were to represent his constituents.[124][125] Brown said that he didn't intend to revisit any of these issues in the provincial legislature.[126][127] As a candidate in the 2022 Conservative leadership election, he reiterated his pro-choice stance though he also stated he thinks abortions should be rare and wants to encourage alternatives to abortion.[128][129]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Brown_(politician)

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Boges on June 09, 2022, 02:41:41 pm
WTF is so great about Brown?  He was a social conservative when he was an MP.  Or was that pretend?  Or is he pretending now?  Or did he change his mind?  What made him change his mind?  Will he change it again?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Brown_(politician)

He's down the middle. Definitely a Red Tory.

He was elected Mayor in Brampton. A very multicultural Suburban Toronto riding. I contend PP has no chance of winning seats in the 905 as Federal leader.

I think the far right of the Ontario PCs orchestrated his demise with this fake sex scandal. Dofo swoops in and realizes the populist **** doesn't work in Ontario and moved to the centre.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 09, 2022, 03:36:01 pm
He's down the middle. Definitely a Red Tory.

He was elected Mayor in Brampton. A very multicultural Suburban Toronto riding. I contend PP has no chance of winning seats in the 905 as Federal leader.

I think the far right of the Ontario PCs orchestrated his demise with this fake sex scandal. Dofo swoops in and realizes the populist **** doesn't work in Ontario and moved to the centre.

A middle of the road anti-abortion, anti gay-marriage, anti death with dignity conservative. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on June 09, 2022, 04:05:16 pm
If they're smart they'll elect Charest.  He was premier of Quebec.   He's one of their own.  They might want some Quebec seats if they want to win.  Not really sure about his policies though, don't know much about the guy.

PP has zero shot at uniting this country that's for sure.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on June 20, 2022, 02:53:40 pm
Does Pierre Poilievre actually exist or is he just an AI that spits out random right wing grievance buzzwords (https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1538900021189419010?s=20&t=7AbO0pQ9cwwHxd14lndhHw)?

Always funny when small government conservatives tout expanding the bureaucracy tho.



Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on June 20, 2022, 04:58:38 pm
Comments are golden...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 20, 2022, 07:07:37 pm
“Free speech”is an American concept.  PP can’t even use the Canadian expressions in his conservative talking points.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on June 24, 2022, 09:10:38 pm
Conservative MPs can’t help themselves….

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/edmonton/2022/6/24/1_5962293.amp.html

Quote
Arnold Viersen, who represents Peace River-Westlock for the Conservative Party of Canada, titled his video "History in the making!"
"This is something that I know a lot of people have been praying for for a very long time, the overturn of Roe v. Wade," Viersen said.
"The pro-life movement in the United States has been working hard on this for generations and it feels so good to have a win."
The MP went on to call abortion in Canada the "greatest human rights tragedy of our time."


They want the same for Canada. 

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 06, 2022, 12:33:39 am
Patrick Brown given the boot by the Cons.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8969716/patrick-brown-disqualified-conservative-leadership-race/amp/
Quote
The campaign said they had just learned about the LEOC’s “secret meeting” and their decision to disqualify Brown through the media.

“We were not present at the meeting, nor were given an opportunity to defend ourselves before the LEOC,” it reads. “This decision is based on anonymous allegations. Our campaign was never provided with the full details or evidence of these allegations, failing an even basic requirement of due process.”

The statement further alleges that the Conservative Party is “expecting a coronation for Pierre Poilievre.”
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on July 21, 2022, 02:48:16 pm
I want to yeet this little twat into the lake.

Pee Pee Poo Poo says he would allow jets to fly in and out of Toronto's Billy Bishop airport if elected
 (https://www.cp24.com/news/pierre-poilievre-says-he-would-allow-jets-to-fly-in-and-out-of-toronto-s-billy-bishop-airport-if-elected-1.5996418)

Who is asking for this? Nobody. Who does this benefit? Also nobody.

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 21, 2022, 03:31:05 pm
I want to yeet this little twat into the lake.

Pee Pee Poo Poo says he would allow jets to fly in and out of Toronto's Billy Bishop airport if elected
 (https://www.cp24.com/news/pierre-poilievre-says-he-would-allow-jets-to-fly-in-and-out-of-toronto-s-billy-bishop-airport-if-elected-1.5996418)

Who is asking for this? Nobody. Who does this benefit? Also nobody.

And he calls the locals who don’t want the extra noise in their neighbourhood “gatekeepers”. 

Hey @MH , would you be affected by the increased noise?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Black Dog on July 21, 2022, 04:11:10 pm
And he calls the locals who don’t want the extra noise in their neighbourhood “gatekeepers”. 

Hey @MH , would you be affected by the increased noise?

When I lived in the Big Smoke, my condo balcony literally overlooked the end of the runway. It was loud af with the turboprop planes going, I expect jets would be worse, especially if the amount of air traffic also increased.

The other thing is, Billy Bishop is not particularly accessible. You can take the Bathurst streetcar or the Queen's Quay line (which IIRC, connects with Union Station), but then you have to schlep your crap by foot a couple hundred yards to the airport. Increasing the amount of air traffic coming in and out of BB would mean a ton more traffic congestion in an area that's not great for cars.

The city has spent millions of dollars turning Toronto's waterfront from an industrial wasteland to a place where people can live and play, having jets ripping overhead at all hours spits in the face of that effort, especially since there's already a giant airport 25 minutes away from downtown!
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on July 21, 2022, 05:26:46 pm
It’s definitely just a move to pander to people who are too stupid to look into the details.  It’s also probably a f*ck you to city residents since they don’t vote Conservative anyway. 
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on July 22, 2022, 08:17:28 pm
I want to yeet this little twat into the lake.

Pee Pee Poo Poo says he would allow jets to fly in and out of Toronto's Billy Bishop airport if elected
 (https://www.cp24.com/news/pierre-poilievre-says-he-would-allow-jets-to-fly-in-and-out-of-toronto-s-billy-bishop-airport-if-elected-1.5996418)

Who is asking for this? Nobody. Who does this benefit? Also nobody.

PEE PEE POO POO HAHAHAHAaaaaa yezzz i'm stealing this.

Dumb policy btw.  Would destroy the waterfront.  What a dumb place to put an airport anyways.
You can't spell Pierre without "Pee".
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: BC_cheque on July 23, 2022, 02:37:30 pm
If they're smart they'll elect Charest.  He was premier of Quebec.   He's one of their own.  They might want some Quebec seats if they want to win.  Not really sure about his policies though, don't know much about the guy.

PP has zero shot at uniting this country that's for sure.

Charest was cabinet minister for Mulroney. He went on to become the leader of the progressive conservatives before going into provincial politics. As many know, he became premier of Quebec as a Liberal where, like BC, the Liberal Party is in name only.

He's pro business but not a climate change denier. He's not a covid denier and is pro vaccines and masks. He's inclusive without focusing on identity politics. The only thing I've seen yet about him which I didn't like was he's against public funded CBC.

He would do well for Canada I think. I doubt he'll win since he's quite moderate but he would definitely take a lot of votes from soft Liberals.

Heck, I might even vote conservative for the first time in my life if he's the one keeping the caucus in check.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Michael Hardner on July 23, 2022, 04:44:21 pm
And he calls the locals who don’t want the extra noise in their neighbourhood “gatekeepers”. 

Hey @MH , would you be affected by the increased noise?
Nope, I moved pretty far from downtown...
At one point I lived basically on Bathurst Street and I had a business flight ✈️ from there one morning so I WALKED TO THE AIRPORT 😃

I don't know why Poilievre wants this.  It's one of those municipal issues that comes up every few years...
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Queefer Sutherland on September 09, 2023, 08:11:08 pm
Well whatever one thinks of PP his wife sure seems like a good catch.  Looks like an asset for him, she's more likeable than he is, but I guess that's common with politicians.

Haven't watched PPs full speech yet.  It's way too long
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on September 19, 2023, 07:39:05 am
Peepee accidentally (by force of habit?) says the n-word yesterday. If that were Trudeau, I'm sure shady would already have a thread going to express his righteous shock and disgust. 😂
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 26, 2023, 11:15:10 pm
Poilievre doubling down on his idiotic anti-vax stupidity.  I guess he figures he’s far enough in the lead that he can go full retard. 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7007562

Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 09:13:30 am
It's because, in retrospect, now that the vaccine was extraordinarily successful, people realize how stupid you anti-vaxxers were, so it seems dumb to pander to you now that you've already been proven wrong and humiliated.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Coolio on October 27, 2023, 10:09:46 am
It's because, in retrospect, now that the vaccine was extraordinarily successful, people realize how stupid you anti-vaxxers were, so it seems dumb to pander to you now that you've already been proven wrong and humiliated.

I still remember a time not too long ago, during my childhood 40 years ago, when not vaccinating your children shortly after they were born, would raise eyebrows, and society, in general would frown upon the parents. Today, due to misinformation campaigns, and the absence of critical thinking, the anti-vaxx movement has flourished, resulting in thousands of needless deaths in North America, as well as an increase in diseases like measles, once thought to have been virtually eliminated.

The anti-vaxx movement hates children.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 10:29:30 am
Someone’s rights have nothing to do with whether a medicine is “successful” or not.  Quit being an idiot.
How come you always scurry away when asked what rights were violated, and why the notwithstanding clause wasn't needed like it is when you want to out gay kids?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 11:05:29 am
These rights a$$hole.

External review found military's COVID-19 vaccine policy violated Charter of Rights
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-covid-19-vaccine-policy-charter-1.6924862
It's nice to see you taking the Charter seriously. How come they didn't need to use the notwithstanding clause? How come you guys immediately use the Charter as toilet paper when you want to politicize LGBT people?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 11:26:30 am
I'm not moving goalposts. You're the one who feels it's okay to violate the Charter to invade people's privacy but not okay if you "feel" the Charter was violated, even without use of the notwithstanding clause or any Charter challenge in court.
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 11:38:11 am
Now that you’ve been shown what people had their charter rights violated, you’re scrambling for a defence.  It’s pathetic.  Just stop insisting that people have their rights taken away.
I haven't been shown anything. If their rights were violated, a court challenge would declare that, and then the government would need to use the notwithstanding clause. Has that happened?

But how come you don't care about the Charter when it is actually violated, like when Saskatchewan used the notwithstanding clause to invade kids' privacy?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: guest18 on October 27, 2023, 11:44:00 am
So will the notwithstanding clause need to be enacted or is this just someone's opinion that won't stand up in court? Asking for a friend.

Why did you ignore my question? Does it have to do with being chickensh*t?
Title: Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
Post by: Squidward von Squidderson on October 27, 2023, 12:27:53 pm
So will the notwithstanding clause need to be enacted or is this just someone's opinion that won't stand up in court? Asking for a friend.

Why did you ignore my question? Does it have to do with being chickensh*t?

Even if he does, it’ll be deleted.  He’s banned from my threads.