Author Topic: Wonder Woman  (Read 405 times)

Offline MH

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2017, 04:13:53 pm »
....and Dr. Who is going to be a woman now.  I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY KIM !

Really, I hope you are. :)

Offline kimmy

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2017, 08:49:19 pm »
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I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY KIM !

I don't follow Dr Who in the slightest, and I think Dr Who is a rather small corner of geek fandom, as opposed to a mainstream success in the way Wonder Woman has been.

Nonetheless, I have been following some of the reaction this has generated on the Interwebs, and yes, I am pretty tickled.  ;D   It's fun to see the howls of the Trumptards and MRAs and Gamergaters and others who are outraged that the downtrodden straight white male is being erased from the pages of history.



From what I can gather, the Doctor is part of a race of powerful alien entities who adopt human form when they wish to interact with humans. In the show's mythology it has been established that they aren't limited to manifesting themselves as one gender or another, and that in their regular existence human sexuality and gender are completely unimportant to them.  And they have had characters who were male in one incarnation return later in female incarnations already.   So the potential for casting a female in the role has been established, and the reason for casting the Doctor as male is a result of writer and audience preference, not of anything inherent in the show's established mythology.

And yet there seems to be legions out there claiming the show has been RUINED FOREVER by this move.

Happily there are at least as many mocking the outraged with mock outrage of their own.   One popular howl of mock outrage is that they did not cast a ginger; gingers are up in arms in mock outrage over yet another non-ginger being cast as the Doctor.


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is part of a race of powerful alien entities who adopt human form when they wish to interact with humans.... in their regular existence human sexuality and gender are completely unimportant to them.

Often in science fiction we see entities trying to masquerade as humans for a variety of reasons.  I once watched a similar show called Sapphire And Steel, starring Joanna Lumley and David McCallum, which is similar to Dr Who in the sense of proposing a time-traveling being adopting human form to perform tasks.  Sapphire (Lumley) and Steel (McCallum) were two extra-dimensional entities who adopted human forms to prevent malicious beings from entering this dimension by causing disruptions in the continuity of time... it was all rather confusing. Lumley and McCallum both portray their characters in a way that seems somehow unearthly.  They way they interact with people creates a strong impression that while Sapphire and Steel may look like humans, they aren't. 

 -k

Offline kimmy

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2017, 01:25:30 am »
And neither left their audiences cursing...

...

That's self-indulgent of the writer, in my opinion, and puts his own sense of artistry ahead of the satisfaction of his readers/viewers.

I don't think giving an unhappy ending is necessarily a stunt to aggravate the viewer/reader.  It might be, although I think it many cases there's a better explanation.


One example:  I recall reading Alan Moore discussing his epic, legendary, all-time-great Watchmen story.  He said that by the time he had finished writing Chapter 5, he knew that Rorschach couldn't survive. It wasn't that he felt like killing off Rorschach for shits and giggles. It was that there was no way to resolve Rorschach's character with the events that would happen at the climax of the story.  A resolution that involved anything other than Rorschach dying to defend his beliefs would have been untrue. It would have been dishonest, cowardly... the integrity of Rorchach's character *required* that he take the stand he did and there couldn't be any outcome other than Rorschach dying for his beliefs.

Rorschach dying in the way he did might have been upsetting to some readers/viewers...  but picking any other outcome would have undermined the integrity of Rorschach's character, which had been firmly established.

This is the kind of writing I respect... writing where choices are made not with an eye to whether the audience will like it or not like it, but whether it rings true. Rorschach choosing that hill to die on rang true.  No other outcome would have rung true. It was unsettling and upsetting... but it rang true.



From the Game of Thrones season 4, there were two notable deaths of major characters. One I hated, one I thought was wonderful.

With the Red Viper, it felt like his death at the hands of The Mountain, after he had easily dominated The Mountain in their duel, felt like a deliberate "fuck you" to the audience. I hated it. It felt like the way it was done was a deliberate effort to punch the viewer right in the kimmables.  I understood from a narrative point of view that this was something that drove the story onward, but the way it was done really sucked.

With the Hound, on the other hand, I felt like his death was a perfect culmination of a beautiful and tragic story arc. I loved the Hound, more than any other character on the show, and when it became clear that either he or Brienne of Tarth wasn't going to survive season 4, I was horrified because I loved Brienne as well. So... the Hound, mortally wounded during the brutal brawl with Brienne and finds himself trying to goad his companion into killing him and ending his suffering. And the awful things he says, the things he hopes will enrage his companion enough to put him out of his misery, only manage to remind him of how far he fell short of the life he wished he had led. Instead of making his companion mad enough to kill him, all he accomplishes is making himself so sad he almost cries. I loved the Hound so much, and I hated that he died, but the way he died was so true to his character, it was a perfect ending to his story arc and it felt so true to the character the writer had created. Even though I was heartbroken to say goodbye to a favorite character, I don't think the story arc could have been ended any better.  Ultimately, he died trying to be the knight in shining armor that he always wished he could be, and that rang so true for me that it put a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes and cemented my love for the character.  Even though it was a sad moment, it was also a moment where the artistic integrity of the story created something especially meaningful for me as a viewer.

And make no mistake about it, the satisfaction of the readers/viewers is job one. Any sort of message you want to deliver on the side has to bear that in mind.

I think that viewers can be fulfilled by outcomes that aren't necessarily "happy".  I mention the above Game of Thrones story involving the Hound as an example. 

Having said that I have to admit that I bought the first book of Game of Thrones long before it became a TV show and it was so depressing with all the characters dying that I never finished it. I am watching the series, and enjoy it, but in a more cursory fashion. The only characters I actually like are the dwarf and the blonde.

I think a big part of the excitement of GoT is the knowledge that neither the dwarf, nor the blonde, nor Jon Snow, nor anybody else are necessarily getting a happy ending.   It was hinted right from the beginning, but made abundantly clear starting at the climax of season 1 episode 9: the characters you think are indispensable, aren't.  The happy endings you expect aren't the happy endings you're going to get. Somehow, despite the shock of season 1 episode 9, the show moved right along without skipping a beat.

As things have moved along, we've seen giant figures come and go... Tywin Lannister, Robb Stark, Magaery Tyrell, Stannis Barratheon, Roose Bolton...  all of them seemed, for at time, to be very powerful, yet all eventually succumbed to factors beyond their control.

Ultimately I still think the ending will be happy... I'm still not sure I know for whom.  That's part of the magic of the show.

 -k

Offline kimmy

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2017, 01:31:09 am »
I was expecting it to be great, given the media buzz, but it was even better than I expected. DC finally has a winner, but it feels kind of like an empty victory considering how awful the Justice League teasers have been.

Given the success of Wonder Woman vs the Meh of the rest of the DC movies, wags are now suggesting the upcoming Justice League movie should be rebranded as "Wonder Woman and the Superfriends."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8H1bg65TaM

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Wonder Woman
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2017, 02:16:26 am »




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Vindication must feel good for Patty Jenkins, who said at last year's Comic-Con she spent over a decade lobbying studios to make a Wonder Woman movie. But what really proved Wonder Woman's worth at that panel were the dozens of little girls dressed up like Wonder Woman, lining up to ask Gadot a question or get a signature.

...

In fact, Wonder Woman appeared to be one of the most popular costumes at the convention this year, along with Rey from Star Wars and Daenerys from Game of Thrones. (And yes, men, too, donned these costumes.) Just five or ten years ago, these characters didn't have onscreen iterations. Now they're icons.

The popularity of the Wonder Women, Reys and Daeneryses of the world prove that women want to see themselves as superheroes, jedis and mothers of dragons. They want to see themselves in genre. It's something that female moviegoers have known for decades, but it took Wonder Woman's lasso of truth to convince the industry. May we never doubt her power again.
http://time.com/4870175/wonder-woman-sequel-gal-gadot-patty-jenkins-comic-con/



As I mentioned earlier, one of the highlights of going to the movie, aside from the movie itself, was when the dad came in with the little girl in the Wonder Woman costume.  It was so cute I almost cried. This lady took her daughter to Comic-Con in San Diego, and they got to meet Gal Gadot there.

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Keller also added on Facebook: “These characters matter and can have a huge influence on young people. What a great role model and genuine, nice person. My daughter will always remember this moment for the rest of her life. Thank you, Gal Gadot!” 
http://www.nme.com/news/film/watch-gal-gadot-comfort-crying-wonder-woman-fan-comic-con-2116225

Wonder Woman takes over Comic Con-- girls and women age 7 to 57 celebrate the movie.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-wonder-woman-taking-over-comic-con-20170720-htmlstory.html


A movie reviewer describes her initial reaction to seeing an early draft of the movie:
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I cried the first time I watched Diana cross No Man’s Land. It was February 2017 and I was in Warner Bros.’ edit bay in London. The world was in flux, I was in flux, and the instability left me blinded. I had to get away, and this trip felt like the perfect salve. Until I cried. I can count the times I’ve cried at movies on one hand (seriously), and never once has it ever been during a superhero film. And it has never happened in front of the director who created it. (I was very embarrassed.) I couldn’t truly wrap my head around what I was seeing, but I knew that it moved me beyond words to see a woman so confident in her gifts and skills, in her mission and her purpose and her moral code. To watch her stand up against an oft-heard sentiment from men—you can’t do that, no man can—and respond in kind that she was no man, and that gave her strength that the army, and Steve Trevor, and all of mankind, did not have. I felt like young Diana: naďve, but thrilled and joyful, overwhelmed at the possibility of what this film could become.
http://nerdist.com/wonder-woman-no-mans-land-scene/




One can only imagine how much more inspiring all of this would have been were it set in an office building.



...  :-\


 -k