Author Topic: Woke Culture  (Read 3640 times)

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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #390 on: November 25, 2021, 03:17:33 pm »
Your people are the ones talking about banning and burning books and passing laws that purge wrongthink from schools, you can shove your moral panic about wokeism up your gaping ****.

Why do you continue to argue that if one "side" is doing something, possibly worse than the other, that this invalidates all concerns about what the "other side" is doing?  Rightwing conservatives doing stupid stuff is not a license for leftwing progressives to do stupid things.  Bad ideas are bad ideas.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #391 on: November 25, 2021, 03:20:34 pm »
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Being historically oppressed is not a license to discriminate against others on the basis of race, gender etc.  Stop supporting racism and sexism you hypocrite.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #392 on: November 25, 2021, 03:26:39 pm »
Ok, the insider view on Prof Kambhampati:

- There's no way he didn't know what he was doing, so let's do away any idea that he was blindsided or surprised by the response to his application.  He was doing it to prove a point.  If you are so inclined you might think it was a publicity stunt or grandstanding.

- That said, what about the points about the EDI questions ?  Well - it is not an exception from hiring on merit first of all.    It's a free form part to show that you are paying attention to the concepts of EDI. 

- You couldn't even promise to hire a diverse group with the funding as you only get enough to hire a few grad students to assist, at most.   You would likely want to make sure that EDI concepts are understood, and the reason is to reduce the possibility of "old boys clubs" developing again.  That formation is anti-merit, by the way.

- So the prof basically thumbed his nose at the bureaucratic review by refusing to acknowledge the concept of EDI and his application got nuked as expected.  There's also an aspect of older schools being used to getting funded automatically in the past, and not being OK with the new ways - including EDI provisions.

There's nothing in the article that says the NSERC grant won't let you hire on merit.  He's saying that but it's not stated as the reason his application was rejected.  They are hoping you connect the dots to that but it's not there.

If you hire based on merit you can't hire based on filling diversity quotas.  Either the most qualified person gets the position or they don't.  If you are hiring someone over another for the sole reason of the colour of their skin or genitalia you're a racist and/or a sexist.

The qualifications of the grant are discriminatory. The prof refused to hire in a discriminatory manner and was refused the grant.  If research assistants are all black and brown or all white, or a mix of both, who literally gives a flying **** besides a racist and/or a sexist.  What kind of monster would give a flying rat what race or sex their employees are?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #393 on: November 25, 2021, 03:56:05 pm »
Why do you continue to argue that if one "side" is doing something, possibly worse than the other, that this invalidates all concerns about what the "other side" is doing?  Rightwing conservatives doing stupid stuff is not a license for leftwing progressives to do stupid things.  Bad ideas are bad ideas.

I've already explained this, do you need me to do so again?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #394 on: November 25, 2021, 03:57:04 pm »
If you hire based on merit you can't hire based on filling diversity quotas.  Either the most qualified person gets the position or they don't.  If you are hiring someone over another for the sole reason of the colour of their skin or genitalia you're a racist and/or a sexist.

Prove there are quotas.
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #395 on: November 25, 2021, 04:00:02 pm »
If you hire based on merit you can't hire based on filling diversity quotas.  Either the most qualified person gets the position or they don't.  If you are hiring someone over another for the sole reason of the colour of their skin or genitalia you're a racist and/or a sexist.

You didn't read my post, I guess.

Let's try again: show me in the article where somebody says a quota was being imposed.

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The qualifications of the grant are discriminatory. The prof refused to hire in a discriminatory manner and was refused the grant. 

Yeah - you were duped by the article and then didn't read my post.  Serves me right for taking the time to give you a full response.  As you were.
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #396 on: November 25, 2021, 04:01:41 pm »
Prove there are quotas.

There are none.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #397 on: November 25, 2021, 05:00:07 pm »
You didn't read my post, I guess.

Let's try again: show me in the article where somebody says a quota was being imposed.

Yeah - you were duped by the article and then didn't read my post.  Serves me right for taking the time to give you a full response.  As you were.

I did read your entire post, maybe I misread it.  So the grant has a section where you have to blurb about how you're dealing with gender/inclusion/equity?  And the prof didn't fill it out?

Well, I guess all he had to write was "I hire everyone on the basis of merit and make no regard towards race, gender etc."

Edit:  as per the quotes from the article below, this isn't the case.  The prof said he wanted to hire based on merit and he was denied the grant.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 05:14:10 pm by Nipples Von Graham »
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #398 on: November 25, 2021, 05:02:43 pm »
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #399 on: November 25, 2021, 05:12:59 pm »
From the Post article of the prof's grant:
Quote
Patanjali Kambhampati, a professor in the chemistry department at Montreal’s McGill University, believes the death knell for the latest grant was a line in the application form where he was asked about hiring staff based on diversity and inclusion considerations. He says his mistake was maintaining that he would hire on merit any research assistant who was qualified, regardless of their identity.

“We will hire the most qualified people based upon their skills and mutual interests,” Kambhampati wrote on the application.

“I’ve had two people say that was the kiss of death,” said Kambhampati. “I thought I was trying to be nice saying that if you were interested and able I’d hire you and that’s all that mattered. I don’t care about the colour of your skin. I’m interested in hiring someone who wants to work on the project and is good at it.”
...
But his application for a $450,000 grant this month from the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) was turned down because, the council said, “the Equity, Diversity and Inclusion considerations in the application were deemed insufficient.”

This man did not get a grant because he's an anti-racist.

Equality of opportunity is mattering less and less, people are becoming more and more focused on equality of outcome.  And if you don't have equality of outcome between groups, racism/sexism/oppression is assumed to be occurring, and discriminatory hiring practices are becoming a more common tool to help achieve this equality of outcome.  Apparently asians make higher incomes than whites in Canada because white people are oppressed?  That's obviously nonsense and proves my point.
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #400 on: November 26, 2021, 07:07:10 am »
I did read your entire post, maybe I misread it.  So the grant has a section where you have to blurb about how you're dealing with gender/inclusion/equity?  And the prof didn't fill it out?

Basically, yes.  There's nothing about quotas or anything like that.  If you think about it, you can't hire for quotas if there's just one hire and you have two male grad students to pick from.

The article implies that this is what's happening, but my source says it's bullshit.

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Well, I guess all he had to write was "I hire everyone on the basis of merit and make no regard towards race, gender etc."

He did that.  He knew that that was incomplete - and a non-answer that would guarantee he wouldn't make it past the form check.

Quote
Edit:  as per the quotes from the article below, this isn't the case.  The prof said he wanted to hire based on merit and he was denied the grant.

Yes he said that.  But that is a clever sidestepping of why he was actually denied. 

He could have said "I wanted to hire a woman but I was denied the grant."  He didn't fill the form out with the requisite care.  He sabotaged the submission to make a political point. 
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #401 on: November 26, 2021, 07:12:48 am »
From the Post article of the prof's grant:
This man did not get a grant because he's an anti-racist.

Your reasoning is deficient.  Nowhere does it say that NSERC has said he was denied because of refusing to hire on merit. 

He implies that, and in your bloodlust for Cancel Culture bullshit, you bought it.

THIS is what I mean when I say 2% of these things have merit.  This makes the news in a National newspaper and people like you parrot it .... "Cancel Culture Cancel Culture".

I'm trying to listen to you, as I do.  I'm trying to give consideration to your point of view, because you are a fellow poster on here.

But I have to say Black Dog's position strikes me as more and more accurate: this is becoming made-up hysteria by the angertainment industry.  And - no - I'm not "afraid" of the PC police.  I'm looking at facts, which you are not doing.

Quote
Equality of opportunity is mattering less and less, people are becoming more and more focused on equality of outcome.  And if you don't have equality of outcome between groups, racism/sexism/oppression is assumed to be occurring, and discriminatory hiring practices are becoming a more common tool to help achieve this equality of outcome.  Apparently asians make higher incomes than whites in Canada because white people are oppressed?  That's obviously nonsense and proves my point.

Blah blah blah... you continue to double down and are discrediting yourself more and more in my mind.  I already talked about social structures and how they influence perceptions and so on... in your quest for "facts and logic" you ignored what I said and labelled me as afraid.

IN our country, unfortunately, you count as a reasonably informed voter and yet you are being duped and continue to ignore it.  You're an argument against democracy.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #402 on: November 26, 2021, 02:57:32 pm »
Basically, yes.  There's nothing about quotas or anything like that.  If you think about it, you can't hire for quotas if there's just one hire and you have two male grad students to pick from.

The article implies that this is what's happening, but my source says it's bullshit.

He did that.  He knew that that was incomplete - and a non-answer that would guarantee he wouldn't make it past the form check.

Yes he said that.  But that is a clever sidestepping of why he was actually denied. 

He could have said "I wanted to hire a woman but I was denied the grant."  He didn't fill the form out with the requisite care.  He sabotaged the submission to make a political point.

Well, he filled it out and answer their questions, he just didn't give them the answers they wanted.  They wanted something about "being dedicated to diversity and being inclusive" blah blah, which suggests giving favour to at least some candidates on the basis on their identifiable group (race, sex etc).

So he was denied the grant for promising to keep any hiring free from discrimination.  I don't see how he did anything wrong, what's wrong are the requirements of the grant, which was the entire point of the article.

He was being inclusive btw.  He was saying that anyone from any background (race, gender etc) is equally welcome on the project if they meet the qualifications.  The government wanted him to say, at least in part, that he would give extra consideration to POC, women and other historically oppressed groups.  This is of course discrimination.
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #403 on: November 26, 2021, 03:27:35 pm »
Well, he filled it out and answer their questions, he just didn't give them the answers they wanted.  They wanted something about "being dedicated to diversity and being inclusive" blah blah, which suggests giving favour to at least some candidates on the basis on their identifiable group (race, sex etc).

Suggests in your mind.  People are expected to answer the questions seriously not just write a sentence about "merit".
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #404 on: November 26, 2021, 03:43:07 pm »
Your people are the ones talking about banning and burning books and passing laws that purge wrongthink from schools, you can shove your moral panic about wokeism up your gaping ****.

We people? I'm not talking about banning or burning books. I'm talking about even-handed teaching rather than the vicious groupthink you and your cadre of extremists insist on subjecting children to. It's laughable that Trump and his people are going to get back in control in the US next year because the Democrats have been catering to racists and race-baiters like you and the rest of the progressive mob. He's an incompetent, corrupt fool, but as far as most middle-class people are concerned he doesn't hate them or want to subject them to 're-education' like you extremists. Your insistence on indoctrinating children and college kids, and your hatred for police and border controls is going to carry Trump right back into the White House.