Author Topic: Woke Culture  (Read 30170 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #345 on: November 23, 2021, 04:41:36 pm »
That is just one single type of training. There are many others, including the one I posted. I know people who work in government. And opting out is absolutely not something which can be done without one hell of a lot of explanation which would mark you as a 'problem employee'. And it's often mandatory, as with the military.

LOL

As if some Trump nonsense is relevant.  You couldn’t show where a single one of these courses is mandatory for any civil servant.  “I know people”

Yeah…. Sure you do. 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #347 on: November 23, 2021, 05:10:23 pm »
Do you agree with him that systemic racism no longer exists?

I guess that depends on how you define it.

Wikipedia defines it as:  "a term that refers to a form of racism that is embedded in the laws and regulations of a society or an organization."

So in that case maybe not.  US doesn't really have that anymore.   Maybe vote districting  in the US may fall under that, though that's more about wanting to win elections than to punish minorities.

Racism occurs within institutions, like racist cops, racist teachers etc. but those are bad actors not following the rules and not really the institutional rules themselves.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #348 on: November 23, 2021, 05:26:13 pm »
I guess that depends on how you define it.

Wikipedia defines it as:  "a term that refers to a form of racism that is embedded in the laws and regulations of a society or an organization."

So in that case maybe not.  US doesn't really have that anymore.   Maybe vote districting  in the US may fall under that, though that's more about wanting to win elections than to punish minorities.

Racism occurs within institutions, like racist cops, racist teachers etc. but those are bad actors not following the rules and not really the institutional rules themselves.

Well, from your answer it seems that you're at least open to the idea - depending on the situation/details.  Redistricting is definitely a systemic attempt to reduce democracy, and I believe that enforcement of laws (ie. by the system) punishes black people more than whites for similar things although I don't have a cite.  There was a black woman convicted of registering her child in the wrong (white) school district for example, but I can't say the details for sure.


Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #349 on: November 23, 2021, 06:50:35 pm »
Well, from your answer it seems that you're at least open to the idea - depending on the situation/details.  Redistricting is definitely a systemic attempt to reduce democracy, and I believe that enforcement of laws (ie. by the system) punishes black people more than whites for similar things although I don't have a cite.  There was a black woman convicted of registering her child in the wrong (white) school district for example, but I can't say the details for sure.

I'm sure there's some examples of systemic racism we can dig up.  I think racism itself exists obviously.  It is a problem.  However, I think there's also problems holding people back too we should also focus on.

One example of systemic racism might be the discrepancy in funding to schools in mostly black communities.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #350 on: November 23, 2021, 07:05:00 pm »
I'm sure there's some examples of systemic racism we can dig up.  I think racism itself exists obviously.  It is a problem.  However, I think there's also problems holding people back too we should also focus on.

One example of systemic racism might be the discrepancy in funding to schools in mostly black communities.

If you talk to many woke people it's as if anti-black racism is the only reason why african-americans have gaps in education and income etc.  A significant factor is the explosion of single motherhood in the black community since the 1960's.  72% of black children in the US are born to unwed mothers, meanwhile South asian and east asian couples rarely get divorced or have children out of wedlock, including those that are low-income.  Culture around sex and family does matter a lot:  https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39993685

Another significant factor in the US within African-Americans since the 1960's, and especially the 1980's, has been the drug epidemic.

Single motherhood and drugs have also harmed a lot of middle and lower class white people in the US too.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #351 on: November 23, 2021, 08:48:41 pm »
I guess that depends on how you define it.

Wikipedia defines it as:  "a term that refers to a form of racism that is embedded in the laws and regulations of a society or an organization."

So in that case maybe not.  US doesn't really have that anymore.   Maybe vote districting  in the US may fall under that, though that's more about wanting to win elections than to punish minorities.

Racism occurs within institutions, like racist cops, racist teachers etc. but those are bad actors not following the rules and not really the institutional rules themselves.

You should really read the whole article and not just the first sentence.

Quote
Institutional racism is distinguished from racial bigotry by the existence of systemic, institutionalized policies, practices and economic and political structures that place minority racial and ethnic groups at a disadvantage in relation to an institution's racial or ethnic majority. One example of the difference is public school budgets in the U.S. (including local levies and bonds) and the quality of teachers, which are often correlated with property values: rich neighborhoods are more likely to be more 'white' and to have better teachers and more money for education, even in public schools. Restrictive housing contracts and bank lending policies have also been listed as forms of institutional racism.

Other examples sometimes described as institutional racism are racial profiling by security guards and police, use of stereotyped racial caricatures, the under- and misrepresentation of certain racial groups in the mass media, and race-based barriers to gainful employment and professional advancement. Additionally, differential access to goods, services, and opportunities of society can be included within the term "institutional racism", such as unpaved streets and roads, inherited socio-economic disadvantage, and standardized tests (each ethnic group prepared for it differently; many are poorly prepared).


Online Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #353 on: November 23, 2021, 08:56:21 pm »
If you talk to many woke people it's as if anti-black racism is the only reason why african-americans have gaps in education and income etc.  A significant factor is the explosion of single motherhood in the black community since the 1960's.  72% of black children in the US are born to unwed mothers, meanwhile South asian and east asian couples rarely get divorced or have children out of wedlock, including those that are low-income.  Culture around sex and family does matter a lot:  https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39993685

Another significant factor in the US within African-Americans since the 1960's, and especially the 1980's, has been the drug epidemic.

Single motherhood and drugs have also harmed a lot of middle and lower class white people in the US too.

Which was caused in large part by...anti-black racism.

From your link:

Quote
The legacy of segregation, the logic goes, means blacks are more likely to attend inferior schools. This creates a high proportion of blacks unprepared to compete for jobs in today's economy, where middle-class industrial work for unskilled laborers has largely disappeared.

The drug epidemic sent disproportionate numbers of black men to prison, and crushed the job opportunities for those who served their time. Women don't want to marry men who can't provide for their families, and welfare laws created a financial incentive for poor mothers to stay single.

If you remove these inequalities, some say, the 72 percent will decrease.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #354 on: November 23, 2021, 09:48:14 pm »
Which was caused in large part by...anti-black racism.

From your link:

I wouldn't deny that poverty is a major factor in both drug use and single motherhood, though not the only factors.  People still have free will.  Not all poor people do drugs or have babies out of wedlock, even if a disproportional amount do.  What you rarely hear anymore, especially from the left, are loud voices advocating for people to stop having children out of marriage or long-term committed relationships.

When looking at poverty, the left wants the government to solve the problem and ignores personal agency while the right wants individuals to embrace personal responsibility and solve their own problems while ignoring institutional supports.  I would say both are important to solving the problem so I support advocating for government helping people and also encouraging people how to help themselves rather than simply thinking of themselves as victims, even if they have been legitimately victimized.

In that sense, both left and right thinking only acknowledge certain parts of reality while ignoring other useful parts of reality, making both ideologies flawed by nature, which is why I embrace a moderate worldview.  I'm a bit right-leaning socially because I think the left dominates socially and have gone a bit too far in a bunch of ways, while I lean left economically because the right dominates economics and have gone too far themselves.  I think there's room for both personal responsibility and caring compassion for others.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #355 on: November 23, 2021, 10:36:46 pm »
I wouldn't deny that poverty is a major factor in both drug use and single motherhood, though not the only factors.  People still have free will.  Not all poor people do drugs or have babies out of wedlock, even if a disproportional amount do.  What you rarely hear anymore, especially from the left, are loud voices advocating for people to stop having children out of marriage or long-term committed relationships.

The left actually supports policies to make it easier for people to do those things though. You know, paid leave, affordable childcare, that sort of thing.

Quote
When looking at poverty, the left wants the government to solve the problem and ignores personal agency while the right wants individuals to embrace personal responsibility and solve their own problems while ignoring institutional supports.  I would say both are important to solving the problem so I support advocating for government helping people and also encouraging people how to help themselves rather than simply thinking of themselves as victims, even if they have been legitimately victimized.

The difference here is the left thinks if you give people support, they will use that to better themselves. The right thinks the working class are lazy pieces of garbage.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 09:24:48 am by Black Dog »

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #356 on: November 24, 2021, 06:33:41 am »
That is just one single type of training. There are many others, including the one I posted.

Nowhere in the article does it say the courses are mandatory for all civil servants. I do not take kindly to people wasting my time.

Your intellectual honesty is now in question.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #357 on: November 24, 2021, 09:32:47 am »
That is just one single type of training. There are many others, including the one I posted. I know people who work in government. And opting out is absolutely not something which can be done without one hell of a lot of explanation which would mark you as a 'problem employee'. And it's often mandatory, as with the military. But it's not like the government usually advertises these things because they know it pisses people off. Just like advertising for jobs and saying 'whites need not apply'.

So what? Instead of throwing a bunch of **** at the wall, you could try to explain what you find objectionable about the specific trainings. Having taken a few, they are usually pretty anodyne and very basic. If you were honest, you'd just admit your problem is with the promotion of diversity in the workplace period.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #358 on: November 24, 2021, 10:39:45 am »
 
explain what you find objectionable about the specific trainings. Having taken a few, they are usually pretty anodyne and very basic. If you were honest, you'd just admit your problem is with the promotion of diversity in the workplace period.

Well, yes, but you are also letting 'The Centrist' off the hook for this one:

"There isn't a corporation or government department that doesn't now require all their staff to take multiple 'sessions' in variations of racial awareness and critical race theory."

We've now walked back that quote, though he/she/they haven't.   ( Sorry Centrist, but as a SJW I absolutely can't misgender you without knowing your pronouns first)

Online Black Dog

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #359 on: November 24, 2021, 11:28:10 am »

Well, yes, but you are also letting 'The Centrist' off the hook for this one:

"There isn't a corporation or government department that doesn't now require all their staff to take multiple 'sessions' in variations of racial awareness and critical race theory."

We've now walked back that quote, though he/she/they haven't.   ( Sorry Centrist, but as a SJW I absolutely can't misgender you without knowing your pronouns first)

Because regardless of the veracity of the claim, they haven't made the case for why this is a Bad Thing.

I have my own issues with these things: some of them are really goofy, some of them are bland, and most of them are about ticking off a box and don't actually work to improve equity, diversity or inclusion. But I suspect our "centrist" friend would say these things are about brainwashing white people into hating themselves and their race or whatever he read on Facebook or through watching Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour.




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