Author Topic: Woke Culture  (Read 30205 times)

0 Members and 11 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2021, 11:24:31 pm »

Woke Taliban ?


Yeah, they let female people be on TV for a couple of days (I believe they've now been removed.)  And their spokesman said the other day that "women will have rights within an Islamic framework."

He didn't mention, but you should remember, that as far as the Taliban are concerned women's rights "within an Islamic framework" are virtually non-existent. As far as the Taliban are concerned, women's rights "within an Islamic framework" include the right to be beaten for wearing the wrong outfit or for venturing outdoors without a male escort. Only a king-sized idiot would believe that the Taliban have turned over a new leaf to become "inclusive and representative".

Here's what is going on. The Taliban are not stupid, and they know that if the West decides to beat them down again, their mistreatment of women will be one of the public relations weapons that are used against them.  If western nations decide to wage war against the Taliban, "look how they treat women" will be one of the main rallying cries of western politicians trying to raise public support for military action. So for the moment the Taliban are going to pretend they're new and improved.

The Taliban are also smart enough to know that we in the west have the attention span of an ADHD-afflicted squirrel.   They know that they only have to pretend to care about women for 2 weeks before we get bored and move onto something else.  Anybody remember the Rohingyas? Nope, me neither.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2021, 11:31:57 pm »
A hot-take I've heard going around from some far-left kooks, anti-American ideologues, and various other tankies this week is that since women's rights in Afghanistan were imposed by Western Imperialism ^tm they're not actually legitimate.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2021, 11:53:22 pm »
A hot-take I've heard going around from some far-left kooks, anti-American ideologues, and various other tankies this week is that since women's rights in Afghanistan were imposed by Western Imperialism ^tm they're not actually legitimate.

 -k

Fundamentalists are going to convince their fellow Afgans that "women's rights" is an American imperial concept designed by heathens and they'll rebel against it like the Iranians did.  The west's ability to put themselves in the shoes of others is terrible.  It's so tone deaf.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Online Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #78 on: August 21, 2021, 05:58:41 am »
The degree to which Western liberal values can or should be imposed on people is a legitimate question.

Keep in mind that we also debate whether people should be free to refuse vaccines.  Talking about freedom is a good idea.

My thinking on publics trends to be my overarching theme in participating in these forums, and it leads me to ask how we should discuss our goals and principles in military interventions.

But given the results of the last twenty years, yes it's worth talking about in some forum.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2021, 09:45:17 am »
The degree to which Western liberal values can or should be imposed on people is a legitimate question.

What's the degree to which we turn a blind eye to values that belong in the dark ages due to some misguided notion that culture matters?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Online Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2021, 10:08:22 am »
Yes that's the question.

Clearly we will intervene, sometimes, if mass slaughter is involved or if they threaten 'us' ... somehow.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #81 on: August 21, 2021, 10:52:02 am »
Yes that's the question.

Clearly we will intervene, sometimes, if mass slaughter is involved or if they threaten 'us' ... somehow.

No intervention.  We don't intervene when concentration camps crop up in China, or, as mentioned above, Rohingyas are slaughtered en masse by a country a lot less intimidating.  We didn't intervene when Hutus killed a million Tutsis and we had troops on the ground. Same with Srebrenica. Right now in Ethiopia food is deliberately being withheld from starving people.

I suppose we could impose sanctions, but most of these places don't have anything we want.  Except China, and the west will have trouble letting go of that teat.


Online Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #82 on: August 21, 2021, 11:11:17 am »
I said sometimes, not all the time.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2021, 11:27:53 am »
I said sometimes, not all the time.

Do we still send foreign aid to China?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2021, 12:52:18 pm »
The degree to which Western liberal values can or should be imposed on people is a legitimate question.

Keep in mind that we also debate whether people should be free to refuse vaccines.  Talking about freedom is a good idea.

My thinking on publics trends to be my overarching theme in participating in these forums, and it leads me to ask how we should discuss our goals and principles in military interventions.

But given the results of the last twenty years, yes it's worth talking about in some forum.

Imposing culture on another country by force is imperialism.  Interfering with the sovereignty of another country is against the very basis of international law.  We might care about people's rights in Afghanistan but it's none of our business, but people have a hard time minding their own.

Refusing vaccines is a completely separate topic because that happens in our own country so we have a say.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2021, 05:08:23 pm »
Imposing culture on another country by force is imperialism.  Interfering with the sovereignty of another country is against the very basis of international law.  We might care about people's rights in Afghanistan but it's none of our business, but people have a hard time minding their own.
As an Earthling all I can say is that it's well past time y'all got your stupid countries off our planet - its 20 fricken 21 ffs.

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2021, 05:36:49 pm »
Imposing culture on another country by force is imperialism.  Interfering with the sovereignty of another country is against the very basis of international law.  We might care about people's rights in Afghanistan but it's none of our business, but people have a hard time minding their own.
I get what you're saying but I also think we're at or maybe past a point where it might be helpful to have a force or power could force nations to get with a global program of some sort. Circumstances of our own making don't seem to be enough to do the trick but perhaps if we were faced with an alien mothership or invasion fleet the point of all this high falutin' need to respect a principle of non-interference might finally sink in.

Personally I think our global 'civilization' is doomed to drive off a cliff fighting over the brakes while stepping on the gas right up until the moment we hit bottom.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2021, 06:25:15 pm »
As an Earthling all I can say is that it's well past time y'all got your stupid countries off our planet - its 20 fricken 21 ffs.

More idealism vs cold reality.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2021, 06:37:50 pm »
I get what you're saying but I also think we're at or maybe past a point where it might be helpful to have a force or power could force nations to get with a global program of some sort.

I'm repulsed by this idea.  People don't need to be controlled by some central power who think they know better, they need self-determination to determine their own destiny.  If crap hits the fan we can help them run away to safety.

Quote
Circumstances of our own making don't seem to be enough to do the trick but perhaps if we were faced with an alien mothership or invasion fleet the point of all this high falutin' need to respect a principle of non-interference might finally sink in.

Would you want the aliens forcing us to comply to their moral standards and rules regardless of what we think?
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline eyeball

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2021, 07:09:41 pm »
I'm repulsed by this idea.  People don't need to be controlled by some central power who think they know better, they need self-determination to determine their own destiny.  If crap hits the fan we can help them run away to safety.
I'm repulsed by it as well and it's not people who need to be told do much as their countries, or governments to put a finer point on it. I do not share the view that our institutions are people but if they are viewed as such, the way corporations often are for example, I would argue they naturally and almost universally evolve towards being sociopathic.

Quote
Would you want the aliens forcing us to comply to their moral standards and rules regardless of what we think?
Perhaps they'd simply compel us to comply with our own. I'm pretty sure if we ever get the chance we'll find that doing unto other's yadda yadda is a value shared by most sentient beings throughout the universe. I'd be willing to bet having done to you as you would have others do to you is actually a universal right for most. Yes, I'm that idealistic. But yeah it could be the cold reality that the universe is populated by alien institutions with little patience for sentient beings. We seem to have no shortage of that already.
Like Like x 1 View List