Author Topic: Woke Culture  (Read 1099 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2021, 02:14:47 am »
I'm not Bill Maher.  My mother had me tested.

You ARE Bill Maher.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2021, 09:41:48 am »
You ARE Bill Maher.

You think the test was fixed?

Maybe that wasn't even my mother!
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2021, 10:14:46 am »
It's a brave new world out there.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2021, 01:53:25 pm »
A few articles on the subject.

People support a lot of things that wokeness stands for, and yet wokeness itself is a toxic brand. How did wokeness become a toxic brand?

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/24/what-is-woke-culture-and-why-has-it-become-so-toxic



Long-time Democrat strategist James Carville: "wokeness is a problem and we all know it."

https://www.vox.com/22338417/james-carville-democratic-party-biden-100-days

He complains about "faculty lounge politics", where people talk in academic jargon instead of talking in the language that voters talk in.  First example he gives is "latinx".  You know who says "latinx"?  White liberals who want to feel like they're culturally aware and inclusive. You know who doesn't say "latinx"?  Latin American people. They hate it. They can't fucken stand it.  It's a fake word created by English speakers and makes no sense to the people it's supposed to describe.   

Back during the Democratic primaries there was a "sting video" by the goons at Project Veritas. One of their "reporters" went undercover as a volunteer with the Elizabeth Warren campaign, and spent the day with a Hispanic guy named Angel Alicea who said stuff like "I had to do diversity training. Like, I'm a brown man. What are you white liberals going to teach me about diversity?" "Nobody cares about **** pronouns, people want to know how you're going to create jobs."   "this is why we lose."  I think the Warren campaign denounced Angel's comments and fired him but they should have given him a promotion. I saw another video where a union organizer guy was ranting along the same lines. He went to a Democratic Socialists of America workshop on union organizing.  The DSA people started talking about pronouns, and attendees started getting up and leaving.  In the US, the Democrats lost touch with the workers and unionists, they lost their "blue wall" and the "Rust Belt" states. In the UK, Labour lost seats in blue collar territory that they had held for 80 years and suffered their worst defeat since before World War 2. Lower-class UK voters somehow got the impression that Boris Johnson is the guy representing their interests. In the US, lower-class voters somehow got the impression that Donald Trump was the guy standing up for their interests. That doesn't make any sense, so how did we get to this point?

Here's a think piece that doesn't relate specifically to wokeness, but does address that subject. This talks about a new kind of class division.  The author contracts two groups who he calls the "boorbours", the boorish bourgeoisie, and the "bobos", the bohemian bourgeois.  He uses the Trump flotillas as an example of the boorbours-- well off people on their power boats and cabin cruisers somehow convinced that they're the common man, the proverbial little-guy. And the bobos he sees as an almost caste-like privileged class who somehow believe they're progressive while unintentionally embodying the worst tendencies of previous elites. I found this article really interesting.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/09/blame-the-bobos-creative-class/619492/

A point that pertains particularly to the topic of left-wing parties abandoning the working class: The parties that used to represent the factory worker, the farmer, the laborer, the blue collar class, have been gentrified by highly educated (and privileged) urban academics.

“The more than 150-year-old alliance between the industrial working class and what one might call the intellectual-cultural Left is over,” observes the Swedish political scientist Bo Rothstein."


 -k
Masked for your safety.

Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2021, 02:47:12 pm »
Unfortunately I only had time to read one and it was the first one:

"No systemic problem can be solved without both sides listening. How do we give permission to people to engage in debate without slapping them down for having a different view? How can we create a shared perspective without alienating another group?"

What is happening is a general lack of character from people.

From your post, Carville is getting some of it: academic language and people arguing about trivial things rather than addressing existential threats, of which I count three:

Climate, economic, and unity.

Can we talk about other things ? Absolutely, but these are the main things that people need to get onboard with.  The political process has been retooled as an entertainment machine, where people fight identity as a blood sport. They need to make a Government II, and give them the tough problems. 

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2021, 02:52:39 pm »
A few articles on the subject.

People support a lot of things that wokeness stands for, and yet wokeness itself is a toxic brand. How did wokeness become a toxic brand?

Because some of these people preaching wokeness come up with some really stupid concepts sometimes that are intellectual garbage.  The left just really got dumb and sickening and has to shove everything down everyone's throats.

The right used to have the hegemony on dumbness, so then the right said "we can't have anyone dumber than us, hold my beer..." and then flat-earthers and Neo-Nazis Trump election conspiracy nuts went to town.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2021, 03:08:25 pm »
Unfortunately I only had time to read one and it was the first one:

"No systemic problem can be solved without both sides listening. How do we give permission to people to engage in debate without slapping them down for having a different view? How can we create a shared perspective without alienating another group?"

What is happening is a general lack of character from people.

That's a great quote.  It really comes down to having empathy.  Listening to people instead of thinking everyone is evil.  Understand why they think the way they do, that way you can have a conversation.  Maybe you disagree with them, but that doesn't mean they're evil.  Most people have good intentions even if the means are terrible.

If you listen to people then it's easier to compromise even if you don't agree.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2021, 03:29:32 pm »
The conversation should exclude bad faith participants.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2021, 04:30:43 pm »
The conversation should exclude bad faith participants.

Who gets to decide who's participating in bad faith?

And, they're off!
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2021, 06:11:23 pm »
Who gets to decide who's participating in bad faith?

And, they're off!

Everybody in the circle.

It's actually not hard to facilitate a reasonable discussion - you just have to be strict about keeping out those who are bad agents.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2021, 06:23:02 pm »
Everybody in the circle.

It's actually not hard to facilitate a reasonable discussion - you just have to be strict about keeping out those who are bad agents.
I can't help but reflect on this as a captain on a boat at sea where there is no circle or discussion and everyone just does what they're told.  It seems strict and probably not be for everyone but it works. When it doesn't it's usually because the captain is the bad agent.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2021, 06:30:20 pm »
I can't help but reflect on this as a captain on a boat at sea where there is no circle or discussion and everyone just does what they're told.  It seems strict and probably not be for everyone but it works. When it doesn't it's usually because the captain is the bad agent.

Sure, but in most cases everyone on the boat recognises who is captain.  That's often not the case with a discussion, especially if the subject is contentious.

Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline eyeball

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2021, 06:39:25 pm »
Sure, but in most cases everyone on the boat recognises who is captain.  That's often not the case with a discussion, especially if the subject is contentious.
If contentiousness were analogous to an emergency and experts were captains perhaps people would have an easier time figuring out what they need to do.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2021, 08:08:51 pm »
The conversation should exclude bad faith participants.

As far as the wokies are concerned, the conversation needs to exclude everybody who doesn't agree with them.

Earlier you said "cancel culture is not a thing."  Okay, let's avoid the term cancel culture because it's not clearly defined and whether it's "a thing" depends on how you define it.   Efforts to deplatform contrary opinions are definitely a thing. Efforts to punish people for contrary opinions are definitely a thing. Even criminal charges for contrary opinions are now a thing.  We've talked about all of these things in another thread.

To me this is a distinction between progressives and the Woke.  Progressives say "we need to have a dialogue about this issue."  Wokies just want to destroy anybody who disagrees.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline MH

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Re: Woke Culture
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2021, 09:00:51 pm »
As far as the wokies are concerned, the conversation needs to exclude everybody who doesn't agree with them.

So if you agree with a lot of woke precepts, but you're open to conversation then you're not woke ?

Why does it feel like people are building a bogeyman around this.

This is an online thing - find unreasonable people who belong to some group and present them as defining the group.

/quote]
Earlier you said "cancel culture is not a thing."  Okay, let's avoid the term cancel culture because it's not clearly defined and whether it's "a thing" depends on how you define it.[/quote]

Thank you.

Quote
   Efforts to deplatform contrary opinions are definitely a thing. Efforts to punish people for contrary opinions are definitely a thing. Even criminal charges for contrary opinions are now a thing.  We've talked about all of these things in another thread.

Sure, but if Jessica Yaniv wants Don Cherry fired, they're not going to fire him.  If thousands of Toronto normies are sick of him, then he's gone.

So who killed Don Cherry ?  The wokes did of course....

Let's leave this group attribution thing behind.  And I'm not accusing anyone of doing what I myself don't do.

It just doesn't seem to advance the discussion.

Quote
To me this is a distinction between progressives and the Woke.  Progressives say "we need to have a dialogue about this issue."  Wokies just want to destroy anybody who disagrees.

 -k

Let's just talk about the issues as people.