Canadian Politics Today

Abortion is a completely normal and natural human activity.  It's been carried on since humans first walked the earth.

****, slavery, murder, and child molestation is a completely normal and natural human activity.  It's been carried on since humans first walked the earth.

The option for most of history was infanticide, and is still carried out in some parts of the world. 

Baby murder while outside the womb, as opposed to baby murder while inside the womb.

In Biblical history, abortion was used both to determine infidelity and parentage:  if a woman was suspected of being adulterous, she was provided with concoctions believed to cause abortion and if she did not miscarry, it was assumed she was faithful and the child (if there was one) was her husband's https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5&version=NIV   (read from 5:11-29)

These people sound crazy.

Child bearing, while being the woman's 'responsibility' due to biology has been given more importance as male validation: I can father kids; the kids are mine; the woman is mine.   Even in the passage above, the man had only to be 'jealous', and he could have his wife taken before the Priest and essentially forced to abort, if she was pregnant.  Note that these abortions were condoned by God, via the priests.

This sounds like a disgusting nightmare obviously. I feel bad for the women and children.

Patriarchal religions have always sought to control women's sexuality and their procreation; if you support a ban on abortion, or even reduced access to abortion, you are essentially supporting patriarchy, and patriarchal religions.

This makes no logical sense whatsoever.  I'm 100% completely against patriarchy and I dislike most religions. This feeds into the common argument of: "Pro-lifers/Christians/Men need to stop trying to control women's bodies".  Nobody gives a rat about a woman's boobs, their neck, their legs, their clitoris, their uterus or any other part of their bodies.  Go amputate both your arms, get a bad boob job, dye your hair green, remove one eyeball, and get a tattoo of a naked Whoopi Goldberg across your back for all I care.  What I actually care about is the little innocent human being growing inside a woman's body that the woman created through their own willful actions but refuse to take any responsibility for except to murder it.  (yes, men involved too, but still ultimately the woman's choice too except in cases of ****).

Although there are and have been no purely matriarchal societies, in pre-modern times - when women tended to live more separately from men within the community - abortion essentially an open secret.   Even in modern times when abortion was illegal and socially unacceptable, there was always a way - dangerous and shameful - but a woman or girl desperate enough could find it. 

If abortion has been known throughout history, if it's something women (and men unwilling or not ready to be fathers) support, openly or secretly, banning it or disapproving of it will make no difference; the whole of human history has shown that.    Women, girls and newborns have died painful and slow deaths as a result of attempting unsafe abortions, whether due to lack of knowledge, or because laws or social disapproval have forced them to seek out substandard services.  Providing safe and effective abortion is better than condemning women to unsafe and unreliable methods, and it's preferable to leaving a child to die after it's born.

If somebody is so cowardly and irresponsible that they'd rather kill a growing human baby that they created through their own willful actions using unsafe methods than to muster the courage to tell their parents or partner that they're pregnant and/or to suck it up for 9 months & give it up for adoption then these women needs to grow up and learn to take some responsibility for their actions. If the woman dies or becomes sick from unsafe underground methods, it's 100% their fault, it sucks & I empathize but I can't feel sorry for them, because killing an innocent human life due to fear and inconvenience is disgusting and morally reprehensible.

If the mother leaves the child to die after birth, that's also disgusting and the mother should be arrested for murder.

Personally however, if a woman came to me to ask my advice, my advice would be: I support whatever choice you make, but I think the best choice is to have the baby, and let it be adopted if you do not believe you can care for a child.

Well I'm glad we agree on at least that.  The difference is that I think that should be the only choice post-pregnancy (keep or adopt away).  I'm pro-choice in that all of the choices occur before the pregnancy.  There's no mulligans when creating human life.  Killing the baby should not be a choice.