Author Topic: Why should abortion be allowed?  (Read 532 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2018, 08:05:20 pm »
I did something about it.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #106 on: April 17, 2018, 08:06:17 pm »
Why not read accounts from Muslim women about the significance of the burka for them and why they continue to wear it here despite their husband’s wishes? You’re completely clueless on this topic too, obviously.

Yes, if you like...
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2018, 08:27:20 pm »
Why not read accounts from Muslim women about the significance of the burka for them and why they continue to wear it here despite their husband’s wishes? You’re completely clueless on this topic too, obviously.

Do you imagine 'saving babies' isn't significant to a devout Christian? But you don't respect devout Christians because they're members of the 'oppressive capitalist' society whereas devout Muslims are 'oppressed brown people who are the victims of colonialism and racism'. Thus they must be protected and sympathized with no matter what they think or do or say.

The amusing thing about that is that devout Muslims believe athiesm and abortion are crimes (as are homosexuality and blaspheme) and Leftists are jailed and tortured in many Muslim countries.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #108 on: April 17, 2018, 08:45:50 pm »
Do you imagine 'saving babies' isn't significant to a devout Christian? But you don't respect devout Christians because they're members of the 'oppressive capitalist' society whereas devout Muslims are 'oppressed brown people who are the victims of colonialism and racism'. Thus they must be protected and sympathized with no matter what they think or do or say.

The amusing thing about that is that devout Muslims believe athiesm and abortion are crimes (as are homosexuality and blaspheme) and Leftists are jailed and tortured in many Muslim countries.

Do you ever actually follow a topic without raining down you xenophobia/bigotry?
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #109 on: April 17, 2018, 09:17:50 pm »
Do you ever actually follow a topic without raining down you xenophobia/bigotry?

Do you ever actually discuss a topic rather than bleating about the imaginary failings of those who ARE?

If you ever find something I say you can disprove, go for it. Sniveling because you don't like that I said it is really a waste of time.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Peter F

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #110 on: April 18, 2018, 09:18:31 pm »
To cybercoma and whoever else dares to make completely unsubstantiated "claims" to my "intents" to this thread, and to question my "sea-lioning" closeminded-ness and to accuse me of not being willing to change my mind...I have proven over thousands of posts and about a decade posting with all of you here and on "the other forum" that I'm not only willing to change my mind, but one of the most willing!

If anyone's been paying attention, over the last couple of years i've transformed from being a staunch leftist and agreeing with cybercoma on most topics to becoming a centrist and embracing a bunch of rightwing views (along with leftwing ones i keep) and butting heads with cyber much more as a result.  I've not only changed my views on many issues, but my entire moral foundation and fundamental ideology of how i view the world has changed.  This isn't on a whim, or by reading a couple of article, I've spend decades pondering deeply about these meta issues, i spent much of my academic career reading the philosophies of Marx and Friedman, Socrates and Nietzsche, and many hours listening to Chomsky and Ben Shapiro, Jon Stewart & Ezra Levant, like we all have.  And i've tried to listen to all of you over the years, with as much respect as an imperfect person can muster, so thank you all for that!

The philosophical change I've had has been the most amazing intellectual experience of my life, because i can understand leftists just as equally as rightwingers.  One day maybe i'll get around to showing you how i did this.  I know why cyber and SJ think how they do, i don't see either as evil or as my enemy, i don't hate them, I empathize with them as good people who want good things for this world but often have fundamentally opposing views on how to achieve this better world because their ideologies are not only different, they're polar opposites, based on the values they choose to emphasize as most important.  Empathizing with those we vehemently disagree with, trying to understand why they think what they do, is what's needed to save the world.  Resentment, thinking people as "evil" is a complete waste of energy and only leads to conflict & suffering.  What needs to be done like is what our MP's are supposed to be doing on Parliament, which is people who disagree need to sit down and talk like respectful adults, hash things out, compromise if necessary, and make sure as many people in the country and the world are listened to & respected and have the ability to pursue their own wants/needs...as long as it doesn't trample on the needs/wants of others.  We need to create a world where not only do we let everyone grab a microphone and sing as loud as they can, we need to build the stage to let that happen, and hold the mic for them if necessary, and stand in the crowd and cheer them on.  If we don't do this, people will always find other ways and times to sing when they see we're sleeping & not at the mic, and when these people start singing while we're asleep we won't be happy.  It's been done to blacks, women, LGBT, Muslims, Quebecois, natives, Sunnis & Shiites, Catholics & Protestants, Jews & Palestinians, Tutsis & Hutus etc. etc. & it always ends in suffering.

*steps down from soapbox*

   Ok, there's your sincere belief and sorta how you got there and it's all very nice.   I must admit that I got all riled up about calling abortion Genocide-like and equating abortion to Mass Killing.  I find both genocide and mass killings abhorrent things and anyone participating in them should be punished to the full extent of the law.   Ok, you're a reasonable human who has empathy to those with opposing views .  Plus you are one who will seek compromise. Whats wrong with empathy and seeking compromise? why nothing of course. so lets see, in the aim of rational, reasonable, respectful debate, lets explore a bit and see if there may be some compromise out there.

  The genocidal-like situation of abortion: Would certain restrictions on abortions remove the genocide-like aspect to abortion?  Well, not if the resulting restrictions didn't significantly reduce the genocide-like and mass-killing like aspect.  The restrictions required would actually have to result in fewer abortions.   
   So the question now is: How many abortions are required to meet the Genocide-like aspect?  If we knew that, then we could perhaps figure something out that would come in under that number?
   No. Thats rediculous. It isn't how many abortions occur.  As long as abortion is, in coonlights view, directed towards the demographic of babies-in- the- wombs- of-women-who-seek-abortion, then the genocide-like       aspect will still stand.
   IF the genocide-like aspect remains then there is no way coonlight graham can accept that abortions be allowed.
   OR maybe  Coonlight Graham is willing to make a compromise regarding the genocide-like aspect!  Maybe, just maybe, there is some condition of genocide-like that he would find the mass-killings of abortion acceptable?    I wouldn't if I believed abortion to be genocide-like, but hey, Empathy, maybe CG would.
   Hows about we somehow screw about with the demographic of babies-in-wombs-of-women-seeking-abortions?   Maybe if abortion wasn't so directly confined to that demographic? That would remove the road-block of genocide-like.    Hmmm.    Conundrum.   The only people who want the abortions get the abortions and yet they are of the demographic abortion is aimed at.
  I'm stumped.
 Perhaps Coonlight Graham has some idea where a compromise can be reached?


 

 

   
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Offline Goddess

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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #111 on: April 19, 2018, 09:43:49 am »
I'm curious whether Mr. Graham feels there should ever be a time when an abortion is acceptable to him?  Or is it any abortion he's against?
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Re: Why should abortion be allowed?
« Reply #112 on: April 19, 2018, 10:52:20 am »
I'm curious whether Mr. Graham feels there should ever be a time when an abortion is acceptable to him?  Or is it any abortion he's against?

In message 27 he said:
Quote
So why not ban abortion then, except in cases of rape and danger to mother's health and certain other special circumstances?