Author Topic: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane  (Read 133 times)

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Offline MH

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White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« on: April 25, 2018, 05:09:37 am »
https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-myth-of-real-america-just-wont-go-away/

Although this is basically a message of disunity, you can't really disagree without becoming the subject of the essay itself.  So it's a double-bind of subjectivity and that's what post-modernist philosophy is all about.  For sure there are a lot of examples of double-standards from those who have controlled the narrative, and that's the strongest stuff in here.

Parting message:

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We are as a culture moving on to a future with more people and more voices and more possibilities. Some people are being left behind, not because the future is intolerant of them but because they are intolerant of this future. White men, Protestants from the dominant culture are welcome, but as Chris Evans noted, the story isn’t going to be about them all the time, and they won’t always be the ones telling it. It’s about all of us. White Protestants are already a minority and non-white people will become a voting majority in a few decades. This country has room for everybody who believes that there’s room for everybody. For those who don’t—well, that’s partly a battle about who controls the narrative and who it’s about.

See if you can temper your reactions.

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guest4

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 07:49:40 am »
I suppose if what keeps a culture culture or country exisrent are its systems of government, finance and social traditions then it hardly matters what the religion or ethnicity of its citizens are.  It seems to me that over the very long term, White people will become the minority around the world, if not cease to exist altogether, purely based on lack of procreation.   

So, if someone says they are concerned about Canada's future, is it fair to ask if they are they worried about it as a country or about Canada as a country dominated by White people?

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See if you can temper your reactions
Hahaha.

Offline Boges

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 07:54:55 am »
I suppose if what keeps a culture culture or country exisrent are its systems of government, finance and social traditions then it hardly matters what the religion or ethnicity of its citizens are.  It seems to me that over the very long term, White people will become the minority around the world, if not cease to exist altogether, purely based on lack of procreation.   

So, if someone says they are concerned about Canada's future, is it fair to ask if they are they worried about it as a country or about Canada as a country dominated by White people?
Hahaha.

Low procreation isn't a white thing, it's an affluent thing. If people come to this country and enjoy the benefits of what this country offers, they'll choose to have less or no kids as well.

I know plenty of non-white DINKS.

AND don't you imagine all that white trash working class Trump voter that you all deride don't have a high birth rate?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 08:12:47 am by Boges »

Offline MH

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 08:09:04 am »
I suppose if what keeps a culture culture or country exisrent are its systems of government, finance and social traditions then it hardly matters what the religion or ethnicity of its citizens are. 

Sounds good in theory.  Maybe more so over the long run.

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It seems to me that over the very long term, White people will become the minority around the world, if not cease to exist altogether, purely based on lack of procreation.   

BLORK... cough cough... WILL become ?

https://www.quora.com/Can-anyone-break-down-the-racial-demographics-of-the-human-species-by-percentage

This says 33% currently.

 

guest4

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 08:11:13 am »
Low procreation isn't a white thing, it's an affluent thing. If people come to this country and enjoy the benefits of what this country offers, they'll choose to have less or no kids as well.
True, thanks for the reminder.

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AND don't you image all that white trash working class Trump voter that you all deride don't have a high birth rate?

"You all"?  What is the point of this grouping-and-accusation you have done here? 

Offline Boges

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 08:14:58 am »
"You all"?  What is the point of this grouping-and-accusation you have done here?

There was a Type O. I meant to say don't You IMAGINE all. Just as low birthrate is a sign of affluence, high birthrate is a sign of poverty.

So there are places full of white people which will still be full of white people having lots of kids.


Offline Boges

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 08:18:23 am »
I also kind of resent that WASP Men are on this Island. As if the descriptor "Protestant" is a mostly white thing. Plenty of Latinos, Blacks and Asians are Protestant. Not to mention Catholics.

Offline kimmy

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 08:54:04 am »
There was a Type O. I meant to say don't You IMAGINE all. Just as low birthrate is a sign of affluence, high birthrate is a sign of poverty.

So there are places full of white people which will still be full of white people having lots of kids.

The anecdotal evidence I see supports this.  The brokest, dumbest white-people I know are having lots of kids, while the smarter and more successful ones are carefully strategizing their child-raising plans so that the financial resources, career impacts, home ownership details, and so-on are all carefully accounted for. I suspect it's not just white-people doing this either.   In natural selection terms, intelligence and planning are now negative traits that are actively weeded out of the gene pool by causing birth-rates.

The movie Idiocracy is based on exactly this premise... I have come to view it as not a comedy but rather a precognitive documentary.  Highly recommend, must-watch.


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Offline kimmy

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 09:00:46 am »
https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-myth-of-real-america-just-wont-go-away/

I just started reading this, but I really liked the following passage she writes to illustrate her premise:

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It is this population we are constantly asked to pay more attention to and forgive even when they hate us or seek to harm us. It is toward them we are all supposed to direct our empathy. The exhortations are everywhere. PBS News Hour featured a quiz by Charles Murray in March that asked “Do You Live in a Bubble?” The questions assumed that if you didn’t know people who drank cheap beer and drove pick-up trucks and worked in factories you lived in an elitist bubble. Among the questions: “Have you ever lived for at least a year in an American community with a population under 50,000 that is not part of a metropolitan area and is not where you went to college? Have you ever walked on a factory floor? Have you ever had a close friend who was an evangelical Christian?”

The quiz is essentially about whether you are in touch with working-class small-town white Christian America, as though everyone who’s not Joe the Plumber is Maurice the Elitist. We should know them, the logic goes; they do not need to know us. Less than 20 percent of Americans are white evangelicals, only slightly more than are Latino. Most Americans are urban. The quiz delivers, yet again, the message that the 80 percent of us who live in urban areas are not America, treats non-Protestant (including the quarter of this country that is Catholic) and non-white people as not America, treats many kinds of underpaid working people (salespeople, service workers, farmworkers) who are not male industrial workers as not America. More Americans work in museums than work in coal, but coalminers are treated as sacred beings owed huge subsidies and the sacrifice of the climate, and museum workers—well, no one is talking about their jobs as a totem of our national identity.

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Offline Boges

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 09:51:10 am »
I will say that Rural North American culture is something very unique and only really found here.

guest4

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 10:22:03 am »
I will say that Rural North American culture is something very unique and only really found here.

Why do you say that?  I would expect that rural, conservative/religious communities would tend to be similar around the world, but perhaps you have some insight or knowledge I lack? 

Offline Boges

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 10:30:59 am »
Why do you say that?  I would expect that rural, conservative/religious communities would tend to be similar around the world, but perhaps you have some insight or knowledge I lack?

And they would have their own culture.

Country music/rural culture is a North American creation. It's got its pros and most certainly has its cons. But it's unique.


Offline cybercoma

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 12:36:46 pm »
A rose by any other name is still a rose and the entire system of political economy in the West is based on the Protestant "narrative." So long as we are all bound to that system, the "white Protestant male" narrative is still the universal. Even this article is predicated on the disjunction between white male Protestant against what it's not. The rest are still the Other and our culture, government, laws, economic system, in a word our social institutions are universalized aspects of the Protestant narrative. Breaking that narrative would literally involve a radical re-organization of social reality.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 06:56:38 pm »
The anecdotal evidence I see supports this.  The brokest, dumbest white-people I know are having lots of kids, while the smarter and more successful ones are carefully strategizing their child-raising plans so that the financial resources, career impacts, home ownership details, and so-on are all carefully accounted for. I suspect it's not just white-people doing this either.   In natural selection terms, intelligence and planning are now negative traits that are actively weeded out of the gene pool by causing birth-rates.

Uh... yeah. I hadn't gotten that, but it makes sense. We briefly discussed this a few weeks back, talking about how to increase the birth rate, and I pointed out poor people have more kids than rich people. So money isn't the issue. So what IS the issue?

If the poor are made up, as they are likely to be, of people with lower intellectual capabilities, drive, motivation, whatever, and they're having a lot of kids... and the more economically successful, which aside from those who inherit wealth would logically be made up of the best, the brightest, are too busy to have kids, then what's that going to do to our future?

It was once simply assumed, culturally, that marriage and children was everyone's destiny. It was why you were here. Now personal enjoyment is why we're here, and kids get in the way of that. It's harder to get promoted if you have to go home to take care of the kids, and taking that extra week in the Bahamas becomes less affordable. Plus you might have to settle for a Toyota rather than that Volvo you want. So what would motivate people to have more kids, if it's not a money thing?
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: White Protestant Male Narratives... on the wane
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 07:49:31 pm »
Low procreation isn't a white thing, it's an affluent thing. If people come to this country and enjoy the benefits of what this country offers, they'll choose to have less or no kids as well.

Agreed.  It's also a cultural thing, that has come part of western modernity.  Instead of women staying home and raising kids they're choosing to work and have less kids, as well as take the contraceptive pills that modern health care provides.  Young men and women also live at home much longer in order to attain more years of education, and are more socially isolated (partly due to technology) so they're getting married older than before.

I think parents have also become "softer" to their kids, many having spoiled & sheltered their children more than say 50-100 years ago, so young adults are less independent.  Our society is so wealthy now, it's inevitable that children are more spoiled by parents.  Gone are the days when many kids moved out at 18 after high school, got a job at the factory, & quickly settled down & had a family.  For most women your goal as an adult was to find a good man to marry & have kids, that's obviously gone.
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