Author Topic: Toronto Raptors  (Read 2159 times)

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Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2018, 10:11:25 am »
You could argue, except for the Vincanity era, that the Raptors have never had a true top 5 talent on their roster. . . until now.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128461/toronto-raptors-agree-deal-acquire-kawhi-leonard-trade-involves-demar-derozan

Quote
The San Antonio Spurs have agreed to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to the Toronto Raptors for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

Toronto's first-round pick to San Antonio is a protected 1-20 selection. After one year, it becomes two second-round picks.

Demar was a good soldier, but he largely disappeared in the playoffs. He couldn't get the team over the hump and he was locked up long-term.

Kawhi doesn't seem to want to stay beyond this year, but winning here may change his mind. If not, the Raptors will have to rebuild. With Lebron now in LA, I'd say they have an excellent shot at at being swept by Golden State in the Finals.

This will definitely be a more interesting year than if they trotted out the same roster.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2018, 02:41:41 am »
Kawhi Leonard... he can put the ball through the ring?   I don't follow basketball much, but my diet of Toronto-based sports hype has led me to believe that DeMar DeRozan was a big deal. To now hear that Kawhi Leonard is actually way better is discombobulating.

 -k
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Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2018, 08:18:27 am »
Kawhi Leonard... he can put the ball through the ring?   I don't follow basketball much, but my diet of Toronto-based sports hype has led me to believe that DeMar DeRozan was a big deal. To now hear that Kawhi Leonard is actually way better is discombobulating.

 -k

Kawhi is a Top 5 NBA player, potentially a Top 3 NBA player. DeRozen is Top 15, Top 10 at best.

BUT, Kawhi doesn't want to play here, Demar did. BUT for four season in a row, DeRozen has largely shrunk in the playoffs. This past series against the Cavs was the most stark example of his inability to get it done in the post-season.

The Raps had to shake things up. 

Offline kimmy

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2018, 09:18:53 am »
Kawhi is a Top 5 NBA player, potentially a Top 3 NBA player. DeRozen is Top 15, Top 10 at best.

BUT, Kawhi doesn't want to play here, Demar did. BUT for four season in a row, DeRozen has largely shrunk in the playoffs. This past series against the Cavs was the most stark example of his inability to get it done in the post-season.

The Raps had to shake things up.

The past few years Canadian sports networks had sort of given me the impression that DeRozen is among the league's elite... now they're reacting like the Raptors ripped out an 8-track and put in a DVD player.

So if Kawhi decides he doesn't like playing in Toronto and moves along after this season, does that leave the Raptors in deep trouble?  Do they have a way of replacing Leonard if he leaves?  Do star players move around much in basketball?

 -k
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Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2018, 09:34:32 am »
The past few years Canadian sports networks had sort of given me the impression that DeRozen is among the league's elite... now they're reacting like the Raptors ripped out an 8-track and put in a DVD player.

So if Kawhi decides he doesn't like playing in Toronto and moves along after this season, does that leave the Raptors in deep trouble?  Do they have a way of replacing Leonard if he leaves?  Do star players move around much in basketball?

 -k

Demar is good in the Regular season, but has consistently under-performed in the playoffs. At somepoint you have to see if you can win, or try something different.

I suspect Kawhi will leave after this season and try to play with Lebron in LA. If that happens the Raptors have just bought themselves a boat load of cap room, as they don't have Demar's contract either. Give it another year and Ibaka and Lowry's contracts come off the books.

Often rebuilds are hampered by albatross contracts. If the Raptors choose to rebuild, they'll still have plenty of young talent and a boat load of cap room to try and attract free agents.

But for the time being, they've vastly improved themselves for the 2018/19 season. I, myself, was getting tired of this core that teases you in the regular season, and then under-performs in the playoffs. If Kawhi is anything like he has been, this could be the best Raptors team ever, if only for just one year.

Would any Jays fan give back that season with David Price? Sports success if fleeting.


Offline cybercoma

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2018, 11:17:12 am »
A couple thoughts on this trade.

The talent that the Raptors picked up versus what they gave away is huge. Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green >> Demar Derozan and Jakob Poeltl. The Raptors picked up an MVP player and an NBA all-defensive player for Demar Derozan, who disappears during the playoffs and a bench centre who gets into foul trouble too easily.

Having said that, there's a couple caveats.

1) Kawhi is a huge question mark. We haven't seen him play ball in a year. Will he bounce back from the injury and be able to perform like he did in the past? Outside of the injury, will the circus around his "circle" that is managing his affairs continue to be a detriment to him and add to the Raptors' problems? Will Kawhi even play at his full potential or pull a VC on the Raptors? Will he play at all or just come back for a few games then claim he's injured? Will he even pass the physical to confirm the trade? There's just no way of knowing how this will play out with him.

2) Danny Green is a great acquisition, since he has the defensive capabilities some of the Raptors were sorely lacking, especially Derozan.

3) Even if this whole thing is a bust, Ujiri was stuck with large contracts with no foreseeable way to advance in the playoffs beyond where the Raptors have already been. Green and Leonard are up after this season, which frees roughly $30 million of cap space. This gives them the flexibility to sign bigger name free agents. However, they may have also created a problem with that by shipping off their single most dedicated star of all time. Players have been talking and crapping on Derozan's loyalty has left a sour taste in their mouths. Toronto already has a hard enough time attracting talent because we're in a different country. This has almost certainly made matters worse.

4) I don't buy into all this talk of the Raptors doing Derozan dirty. He's going to be under the tutelage of perhaps the greatest coach of all time at the Spurs. He's making millions of dollars to play ball. People are being overly dramatic about how bad this is for Derozan. In fact, I would argue that this is far better for him. Nick Nurse wasn't going to be a good coach for him. Derozan doesn't fit into Nurse's system. Pop will make Derozan an even better player than he is now. He may actually be the fortunate one in this situation.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2018, 10:27:14 pm »
How are the Raptors doing?

Did they put the ball through the ring yet?

Is Kawhi Leonard everything people hoped for?  Is there a chance he's going to stay with the Raptors after this season?

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2018, 05:43:22 am »
How are the Raptors doing?

Did they put the ball through the ring yet?

Is Kawhi Leonard everything people hoped for?  Is there a chance he's going to stay with the Raptors after this season?

 -k

All pretty good.  The 'move' to get Leonard is looking smart - the Raptors lead the NBA and can beat pretty much any team.  They have a problem with the Bucks, though, who are peaking this year.  A trip to the final is not yet assured.

Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2019, 10:38:30 am »
I'm concerned this team isn't going to do a heck of a lot better than the past few seasons. Their shooting just isn't good enough, often enough.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong and Marc Gasol provides an element this team doesn't have. His Basketball IQ is so much better than JVs and he can shoot 3's better.

The slog of the NBA schedule is showing. Where they finish in the standings in the top 2 or 3 is irrelevant. As long as come April, they're healthy and jelling.

Linsanity is an interesting addition. With Freddy out for a few weeks, he'll be a most welcome addition.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2019, 05:38:29 am »
Is Lin any good ?

Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2019, 07:37:58 am »
Is Lin any good ?

He's a competent veteran. With the loss of the Delon Wright in the Gasol trade, a new PG is required. Now that Freddie is on the shelf for over a month, he'll be sorely needed just to absorb minutes.

If he's a difference maker in the playoffs, that's not a good thing. He just provides depth. But like with Kawasaki in the Jays run a few years back, his appeal goes beyond his performance on the field.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2019, 02:29:26 pm »
The team hasn't had a full roster since October. Plauged by injuries this year. Yet still hanging onto second in the East. Tons of potential, but it'll have to come together in May.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2019, 07:07:25 pm »
I read yesterday that Kawhi Leonard doesn't like Toronto cold, but he loves the Raptors and the fans, so maybe he will decide to stay on and help the Raptors put the ball through the ring.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2019, 08:04:14 am »
Nobody knows what he will do. It would be nice if he stays, but I wouldn't bet my house on it. He didn't say specifically that he doesn't like the cold, just that he's never been anywhere that has snow. He grew up in San Diego and played ball for the San Antonio. He's just never had to wear a winter coat and boots before. He's also probably used to playing ball outside whenever he wants. You can't do that in Toronto obviously.

In any case, Mark Gasol, Jeremy Lin and Pascal Siakam are strong pieces for the Raptors' future in the league. The big issue I see going forward, however, is that they've bargained away their future by giving away their draft picks over the next 3 years or so. Masai and Bobby Webster must be working overtime to insure that Kawhi stays.

Offline Boges

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Re: Toronto Raptors
« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2019, 11:39:05 am »
In any case, Mark Gasol, Jeremy Lin and Pascal Siakam are strong pieces for the Raptors' future in the league. The big issue I see going forward, however, is that they've bargained away their future by giving away their draft picks over the next 3 years or so. Masai and Bobby Webster must be working overtime to insure that Kawhi stays.

If Kawhi bails, I'm pretty confident in predicting that Gasol and Lowry will be traded for picks and/or controllable assets. It'll be Siakam, Freddy and OG's team next season.