Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 3686 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #375 on: March 16, 2021, 10:57:06 pm »
No quotas in the act.

https://emploisfp-psjobs.cfp-psc.gc.ca/psrs-srfp/applicant/page1800?poster=1562505

"The NCC is committed to building a skilled, diverse workforce reflective of Canadian society. As a result, it promotes employment equity and encourages candidates to indicate voluntarily in their application if they are a woman, an Indigenous person, a person with a disability or a member of a visible minority group."

I'm sure there's many more on the Federal gov jobs site:  https://emploisfp-psjobs.cfp-psc.gc.ca/psrs-srfp/applicant/page2440?requestedPage=1&fromPage=2&tab=1&log=false
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #376 on: March 17, 2021, 05:49:43 am »
Nothing about quotas in the text.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #377 on: March 17, 2021, 10:47:05 am »
How the hell does on interpret "we encourage more minorities to apply for the job and are an equal opportunity employer" as "we are trying to hire a set number of minorities"?
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #378 on: March 17, 2021, 04:24:27 pm »
Nothing about quotas in the text.

Read it again.  Then read it again.  Then email them and ask them what their specific quota numbers are.  They don't publish it because they pull it out of their bums.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #379 on: March 17, 2021, 04:26:56 pm »
How the hell does on interpret "we encourage more minorities to apply for the job and are an equal opportunity employer" as "we are trying to hire a set number of minorities"?

That's not what it says and you know that.  You just like arguing in bad faith.  Read it a few more times.  It says voluntarily declare you are part of X or Y group so we can choose you over others on that basis.  This isn't hard to understand.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #380 on: March 17, 2021, 04:28:38 pm »
That's not what it says and you know that.  You just like arguing in bad faith.  Read it a few more times.  It says voluntarily declare you are part of X or Y group so we can choose you over others on that basis.  This isn't hard to understand.

Speaking of bad faith it doesn't say that either.

Also, even if policies explicitly favoured hiring minorities, that doesn't mean there are quotas.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 04:35:49 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #381 on: March 17, 2021, 04:35:42 pm »
Speaking of bad faith it doesn't say that either.

Read it a few more times.  Then a few more times again.

What do you think the reason is for encouraging "candidates to indicate voluntarily in their application if they are a woman, an Indigenous person, a person with a disability or a member of a visible minority group." during a hiring process?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #382 on: March 17, 2021, 04:36:42 pm »
Read it a few more times.  Then a few more times again.

What do you think the reason is for encouraging "candidates to indicate voluntarily in their application if they are a woman, an Indigenous person, a person with a disability or a member of a visible minority group." during a hiring process?

So they can try and hire more people from those groups.

Still not a quota, which would be "we need to hire X number of people from Y group".

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #383 on: March 17, 2021, 04:48:38 pm »
So they can try and hire more people from those groups.

Still not a quota, which would be "we need to hire X number of people from Y group".

"There's not enough of X and Y, let's hire more" is a quota.  I guess a soft quota at the very least.  I have no idea what their actual targets are or how they go about determining how many is not enough.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #384 on: March 17, 2021, 05:03:23 pm »
"There's not enough of X and Y, let's hire more" is a quota.  I guess a soft quota at the very least.  I have no idea what their actual targets are or how they go about determining how many is not enough.

No it's not. A quota is a numerical requirement. A preference is a preference.

Anyway at this point i'm not even sure what your argument is.
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #385 on: March 17, 2021, 05:35:48 pm »
Read it again.  Then read it again.  Then email them and ask them what their specific quota numbers are.  They don't publish it because they pull it out of their bums.

Conspiratard Graham is in da house!!!   

Please show a credible source anywhere that says there are specific quotas.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #386 on: March 17, 2021, 08:49:49 pm »
Conspiratard Graham is in da house!!!   

I is crazy!!  https://www.complianceweek.com/boards-and-shareholders/understanding-canadas-new-diversity-disclosure-requirements/27805.article

https://www.canada.ca/en/government/publicservice/wellness-inclusion-diversity-public-service/diversity-inclusion-public-service/diversity-inclusion-priorities-public-service.html

Ensuring the right benchmarks: Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat will continue to work closely with partners, which includes supporting Employment and Social Development Canada on the review of the Employment Equity Act, to ensure that the public service applies appropriate benchmarks for diversity. Benchmarks are being used to guide the development of strategies to that will strengthen diverse representation throughout the public service.

Benchmarks = quotas.  Of course, I can't find anything on exactly what these benchmarks are.  I guess these are more internal and someone would have to do an access request for them or something.  As I have said I don't have a problem with quotas and diversity hires, and in fact support them, as long as these "benchmarks" are based on some kind of passable social science that can legitimate the benchmarks based on some kind of actual reality of discrimination problems that exist, rather than people just pulling things out of their butts because the PM or ministers want to signal their virtue about how progressive they are.

The whole point is to ameliorate discrimination/bias in hiring so everyone gets more or less a fair shake, the point isn't charity.  Charity needs to come in the form of social programs to help people have a better shot at getting hired on merit, like education.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 08:53:12 pm by Gorgeous Graham »
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #387 on: March 17, 2021, 09:06:36 pm »
Benchmark is a quota now?  Sure...  if you redefine a word to mean something else, then I guess it means something else!   ::)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 09:16:00 pm by the_squid »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #388 on: March 17, 2021, 09:30:38 pm »
Benchmark is a quota now?  Sure...  if you redefine a word to mean something else, then I guess it means something else!   ::)

What is a benchmark for diversity of employees by an employer?
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #389 on: March 17, 2021, 09:39:16 pm »
What is a benchmark for diversity of employees by an employer?

Given the context, itís an aspirational goal.

But Iím not really convinced that you are able to understand the difference between that and a quota.  You may just carry on saying itís the same thing.

So far, youíve linked to 3 different things that you claim contain quotas when they donít.