Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 3682 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #360 on: February 22, 2021, 10:19:50 pm »
It's funny you mention "political correctness" when that was what people used to call cancel culture before it was cancel culture. We went through all these same arguments in the '90s and they were dumb then, all that's changed is people now even the a total nobody can embarrass a national columnist and I like to think we're better for it.

Well as I've said, there's some examples of cancel culture that are justified.  So what people probably need to do is mind their P's and Q's and not talk on twitter like they do when they're in private because PR is a real thing.

15 years ago Rowling and Carano probably wouldn't be in hot water because they wouldn't have the same platforms to voice opinions.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #361 on: February 24, 2021, 10:33:39 pm »
No, right/wrong is not always a matter of opinion. 

She was definitely objectively wrong.  Republicans are not analogous to persecuted Jews.  She is a conspiratard ala Trump.

The problem is that she’s a crackpot who should’ve just not tweeted.

She was talking about hate becoming part of our political culture, and the only think she's wrong about is thinking that right-wingers are the only ones on the receiving end.

On the internet we've seen "progressives" by the thousands deluge JK Rowling with vile misogynistic slurs and tell her that she should be punched, kicked, stabbed, raped, and killed.  And we see AOC treated pretty much the same by the right wing.

The internet isn't the real world, of course, but we've seen escalating violence at political protests in recent years, with Jan 6 being the pinnacle (so far.)

In Canada we've seen conspiracy kooks assault people just for wearing covid masks, and we saw protesters screaming "kill yourself!" and "bleed out!" at the attendees of a Meghan Murphy talk in Toronto... they even had a fake guillotine they were carrying around to make their point.   We're not yet at Kristalnacht levels of insanity, but the people who vandalized the Vancouver R4pe Relief shelter with death threats and nailed a rat to the door are getting there.

Obviously the comparison to 1930s Germany is overwrought, but hate that Carano was talking about is real and getting worse.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #362 on: March 05, 2021, 11:28:11 am »
Cancel culture opponents have discovered a new weapon against woke ideology: government censorship.

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An Arkansas legislator introduced a pair of bills, one banning the teaching of The Times’s 1619 Project curriculum, and the other nixing classes, events and activities that encourage “division between, resentment of, or social justice for” specific groups of people. “What is not appropriate is being able to theorize, use, specifically, critical race theory,” the bills’ sponsor told The Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

Republicans in West Virginia and Oklahoma have introduced bills banning schools and, in West Virginia’s case, state contractors from promoting “divisive concepts,” including claims that “the United States is fundamentally racist or sexist.” A New Hampshire Republican also proposed a “divisive concepts” ban, saying in a hearing, “This bill addresses something called critical race theory.”

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #363 on: March 05, 2021, 11:44:19 am »
Cancel culture opponents have discovered a new weapon against woke ideology: government censorship.
Axing curriculum....is that cancel culture? Or is it just cancel culture when people express their displeasure at others on Twitter?

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #364 on: March 05, 2021, 12:42:57 pm »
Axing curriculum....is that cancel culture? Or is it just cancel culture when people express their displeasure at others on Twitter?

They stopped playing The Merchant of Venice in some jurisdictions in Ontario in the 1980s. 

One of my teachers told us that they got "Catcher in the Rye" assigned at a Catholic Boys school pretty soon after it came out.  These schools were run by Brothers so you can imagine how strict... and yet they saw the value in work that was provocative, insensitive etc.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #365 on: March 05, 2021, 12:48:52 pm »
They stopped playing The Merchant of Venice in some jurisdictions in Ontario in the 1980s. 

One of my teachers told us that they got "Catcher in the Rye" assigned at a Catholic Boys school pretty soon after it came out.  These schools were run by Brothers so you can imagine how strict... and yet they saw the value in work that was provocative, insensitive etc.
Don't forget when gays were actively hunted out of the RCMP. Cancel Culture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_machine_(homosexuality_test)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #366 on: March 05, 2021, 12:52:51 pm »
Cancel culture opponents have discovered a new weapon against woke ideology: government censorship.

Yeah that's taking it a bit far.  Postmodern critical theory can be divisive because it's based on identity politics, but it's best to counter ideas we think are bad with better ideas rather than government coercion.

But is it any different than activists using government to push woke ideology to ban the the name of streets, schools, statues etc named after historical figures with some skeletons in the closet?  Or using race and gender quotas in government hiring?

This is a culture war, it is taking place in the private sector, and through government, and everywhere really.  Let's just hope the best ideas win, whatever they are.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #367 on: March 05, 2021, 12:57:38 pm »
Don't forget when gays were actively hunted out of the RCMP. Cancel Culture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_machine_(homosexuality_test)

Didn't Biden reverse Trump's ban on transsexuals in the military, or something along that line.

We're seeing a lot of social and cultural changes the last 5 years or so.  With change, sometimes it can be messy, as we saw in the 1960's, which produced racists murdering MLK, to the Black Panther offering armed protection.  I hope at some point we reach some kind of equilibrium and we figure out which ideas are good and bad, because right now we're throwing all these new ideas on the wall and seeing which ones stick.  Some are good, some aren't.  Trial and error for society.  I have to have faith that most people in society are reasonable and we'll eventually figure out which ideas we go to far and  also when change works out well.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #368 on: March 05, 2021, 01:51:22 pm »
Yeah that's taking it a bit far.  Postmodern critical theory can be divisive because it's based on identity politics, but it's best to counter ideas we think are bad with better ideas rather than government coercion.

But is it any different than activists using government to push woke ideology to ban the the name of streets, schools, statues etc named after historical figures with some skeletons in the closet?  Or using race and gender quotas in government hiring?

This is a culture war, it is taking place in the private sector, and through government, and everywhere really.  Let's just hope the best ideas win, whatever they are.

Yes, yes it is. For one thing, changing the name of streets and removing statues isn't violating anyone's free speech rights.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #369 on: March 05, 2021, 01:53:10 pm »
Didn't Biden reverse Trump's ban on transsexuals in the military, or something along that line.
I have no idea.
We're seeing a lot of social and cultural changes the last 5 years or so.  With change, sometimes it can be messy, as we saw in the 1960's, which produced racists murdering MLK, to the Black Panther offering armed protection.  I hope at some point we reach some kind of equilibrium and we figure out which ideas are good and bad, because right now we're throwing all these new ideas on the wall and seeing which ones stick.
I don't think there's been any new ideas. I think the people who've been silenced and oppressed are finally finding communities of support and standing up for themselves. They were always there but were forced to hide, shamed into denying their own existence, or in some cases literally murdered.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #370 on: March 05, 2021, 03:02:35 pm »
Yeah that's taking it a bit far.  Postmodern critical theory can be divisive because it's based on identity politics, but it's best to counter ideas we think are bad with better ideas rather than government coercion.

But is it any different than activists using government to push woke ideology to ban the the name of streets, schools, statues etc named after historical figures with some skeletons in the closet? 


Yes, it’s very different actually.  Having government stifle free expression is VERY different than the government taking down government-placed statues of historical figures.   Often, those historical figures, at least in the USA, were put up because of political pressure from racist groups, groups that want to glorify the historical secessionist movements, or movements that wanted to keep black people as lesser people.

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Or using race and gender quotas in government hiring?

Please provide a cite for actual government quotas.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #371 on: March 16, 2021, 12:21:17 pm »
Here is another entry in the canon of "people who complain about cancel culture are usually bad faith dirtbags".

What an absolute toilet England is.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #372 on: March 16, 2021, 06:49:29 pm »
I don't think there's been any new ideas. I think the people who've been silenced and oppressed are finally finding communities of support and standing up for themselves. They were always there but were forced to hide, shamed into denying their own existence, or in some cases literally murdered.

Freeing oppressed people isn't a new idea.  But microaggressions are a new idea.  Defunding the police is a new idea.  Trans people competing in sports or using bathrooms in their transitioned gender is a fairly new idea, at least in implementation on a society-wide basis.  50% quotas for women in cabinet is a new idea, at least in Canada, and at least in implementation.  When you come up with new concepts, and then implement them, society has to figure out what's working in real practical terms, and see which ideas aren't.  It's not going to be a 100% success rate all of the time, sometimes things will need to be tweaked, because sometimes you don't know how things will work until they are tried in real-world application even if they seem good in theory.  In the last 5 years or so there's been a large # of new social ideas being thrown at the wall and implemented.

It's similar to the 1960's.  Lots of new ideas were implemented, from women's rights, sexual freedom, black civil rights.  Some of them have been good, some of them a bit messy (ie: broken families via high # of divorces, single motherhood rate etc).

We've seen an unprecedented # of changes over the last 60 years and we certainly haven't figured it all out quite yet.  As I said, sometimes change is messy.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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