Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 8464 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #270 on: December 23, 2020, 11:59:01 am »
Who has claimed otherwise?

Another poster shamed shame.

Online Black Dog

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #271 on: December 23, 2020, 12:03:28 pm »
It's perfectly ok to be moral, it is necessary for society to function well.  The question is how do we treat those we disagree with?

Shame is perfectly fine IMO, it's simply speech in reaction to other speech, everyone has a right to their opinion.  But then it gets messier when there is cancel culture, and people are denied or lose jobs simply for opinions.  This is legal (i think), since an employee is representing a company and people thinking negatively of an employee because of their opinion can negatively impact business/PR of a company.

Conservatives: let's enable a system of at-will employment where any employee can be fired for any reason or indeed no reason at all.

*right winger gets shitcanned for having a lousy opinion*

Conservatives: no, not like that!


Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #272 on: December 23, 2020, 12:21:17 pm »
Conservatives: let's enable a system of at-will employment where any employee can be fired for any reason or indeed no reason at all.

*right winger gets shitcanned for having a lousy opinion*

Conservatives: no, not like that!

No no... my favourite was ... on Facebook the students at Concordia were pushing to make it possible to FIRE professors with tenure.  The angertainment was there for the taking and pretty soon every bot account in Estonia was posting about "snowflakes" etc etc.  I noticed that some people were saying "fire the professors"... WHICH WAS WHAT THE STUDENTS WERE ASKING FOR. 

I pointed this out to them and surprisingly they blocked me because... presumably I hurt their feelings :)

guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #273 on: December 23, 2020, 12:23:16 pm »
No no... my favourite was ... on Facebook the students at Concordia were pushing to make it possible to FIRE professors with tenure.  The angertainment was there for the taking and pretty soon every bot account in Estonia was posting about "snowflakes" etc etc.  I noticed that some people were saying "fire the professors"... WHICH WAS WHAT THE STUDENTS WERE ASKING FOR. 

I pointed this out to them and surprisingly they blocked me because... presumably I hurt their feelings :)
Wow, students advocating something dumb?  I'm shocked I tells ya!
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guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #274 on: December 23, 2020, 12:24:01 pm »
Conservatives: let's enable a system of at-will employment where any employee can be fired for any reason or indeed no reason at all.

*right winger gets shitcanned for having a lousy opinion*

Conservatives: no, not like that!
Strawman.  There is no system where somebody can be fired so-called at-will. 

guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #275 on: December 23, 2020, 12:26:43 pm »
You progressives can stomp your feet and throw a temper tantrum all you want.  But you do NOT have a right to other people's labour.  The second you as for participation, either financially or through labour it ceases to be a right.  Nobody has an obligation to assist you.  That would fall under the category of a privilege.  You people need to learn the difference between a right and a privilege.  Just because you yell and scream that something is a right, doesn't make it so.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #276 on: December 23, 2020, 12:33:44 pm »
You progressives can stomp your feet and throw a temper tantrum all you want.  But you do NOT have a right to other people's labour.  The second you as for participation, either financially or through labour it ceases to be a right.  Nobody has an obligation to assist you.  That would fall under the category of a privilege.  You people need to learn the difference between a right and a privilege.  Just because you yell and scream that something is a right, doesn't make it so.

Not a single person has claimed a “right to other people’s labour”.  That’s a straw man you’re making up.

Clearly, you didn’t read my explanation about rights.  Let me quote my post for you.  Please let us know which part of it you disagree with and why.



Criminalizing abortions was ruled unconstitutional as it was a violation of Section 7 of the Constitution.

Ergo, access to an abortion is a right. 

Nowhere in the Constitution is kissing your spouse either.

However, if spousal kissing was criminalized under the law, it would be deemed a violation of your Constitutional rights. 

Ergo, you and your spouse have a RIGHT (despite it not being in the Constitution) to kiss.

Or maybe you’ll understand this example Shady....

Do men have a RIGHT to access a vasectomy?

If Parliament passed the “Vasectomy Outlaw Act to Save Unborn Children” that said it was illegal to get a vasectomy, this would be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional.   Hence, you have a RIGHT to access a vasectomy.

The only difference between the right to a vasectomy and an abortion being that vasectomies were never legislated against and didn’t need a court ruling.

guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #277 on: December 23, 2020, 12:36:57 pm »
Not a single person has claimed a “right to other people’s labour”.  That’s a straw man you’re making up.

Clearly, you didn’t read my explanation about rights.  Let me quote my post for you.  Please let us know which part of it you disagree with and why.
I've never suggested criminalizing abortions.  Regardless, you don't require anything from anybody else when two spouses kiss.  Surely you can understand the difference. 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #278 on: December 23, 2020, 12:43:30 pm »
It relates to the fact that trans rights have rocketed to the top of the outrage list for readers of The Sun and The Rebel who are hungry for angertainment.

I don't think it's "angertainment", I think some people have different values than other people, and these are difficult issues to work at as a society, and until we figure this out there will be messiness and mistakes and outrage, along with minds that are sometimes too closed and others that are sometimes too open.

Trans rights at the end of the day affect everyone because we all need to learn how to deal with them, whether in accommodations at the workplace or school or in sport or simply how we view them in our heads.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #279 on: December 23, 2020, 12:46:17 pm »
I don't think it's "angertainment", I think some people have different values than other people, and these are difficult issues to work at as a society, and until we figure this out there will be messiness and mistakes and outrage, along with minds that are sometimes too closed and others that are sometimes too open.

Trans rights at the end of the day affect everyone because we all need to learn how to deal with them, whether in accommodations at the workplace or school or in sport or simply how we view them in our heads.
Exactly.  Some people don't appreciate the fact that female sports are being obliterated by trans women (ie men that have lived as men for most of their lives but now identify as female).  They have huge biological advantages, and they're ruining female athletics.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #280 on: December 23, 2020, 12:48:01 pm »
I've never suggested criminalizing abortions. 

I know you like to try and change the topic...    no one said you want to criminalize anything.  You said getting an abortion is not a right in Canada. 

Well, you’re wrong about that and I explained why.  Let’s stick on that topic. 

Quote
Regardless, you don't require anything from anybody else when two spouses kiss.  Surely you can understand the difference.

I do understand the difference.  Except, you’re getting sidetracked on your labour straw man again. 

That’s why I mentioned a right to a vasectomy.   Focus on that one.

Even if there was no one to provide an abortion, it would still be a right to get one. 

Like in rural areas, there’s no one to perform abortions.  Women still have the right to get one.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 12:56:46 pm by the_squid »

guest78

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #281 on: December 23, 2020, 12:52:11 pm »
I know you like to try and change the topic...    no one said you want to criminalize anything.  You said getting an abortion is not a right in Canada. 

Well, you’re wrong about that and I explained why.  Let’s stick on that topic. 

I do understand the difference.  Except, you’re getting sidetracked on your labour straw man again. 

That’s why I mentioned a right to a vasectomy.   Focus on that one.

Even if there was no one to provide an abortion, it would still be a right to get one. 

Like in rural areas, there’s no one to reform abortions.  Women still have the right to get one.
There's no right to a vasectomy.  Regardless, the labour issue isn't a straw man, unless you think doctors are slaves of the state.  What if a doctor isn't comfortable preforming an abortion?  Do you want the state to compel them to?

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #282 on: December 23, 2020, 01:09:42 pm »
1. I don't think it's "angertainment", I think some people have different values than other people, and these are difficult issues to work at as a society, and until we figure this out there will be messiness and mistakes and outrage, along with minds that are sometimes too closed and others that are sometimes too open.

2. Trans rights at the end of the day affect everyone because we all need to learn how to deal with them, whether in accommodations at the workplace or school or in sport or simply how we view them in our heads.

1. I agree with what you've saying, but there can still be ANGERTAINMENT within the playing field that you have accurately laid out.
2. I also agree with this, and the overall discussion is something that I think everyone is impacted by.  I just don't see why readers of the Sun would feel the need to jump in on stories about, say, the Australian women's track team.  I don't buy that they have some elevated level of fairness.  It's reactionary busybody work AFAICS.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #283 on: December 23, 2020, 01:11:00 pm »
There's no right to a vasectomy.  Regardless, the labour issue isn't a straw man, unless you think doctors are slaves of the state.  What if a doctor isn't comfortable preforming an abortion?  Do you want the state to compel them to?

Doctor's of course are not legally required to perform an abortion, they can simply refer someone to another doctor who does. And yes, you do have a right to a vasectomy.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #284 on: December 23, 2020, 01:11:59 pm »
There's no right to a vasectomy. 

Then you clearly do not even understand the very basics of what a right actually is. 

Quote
Regardless, the labour issue isn't a straw man, unless you think doctors are slaves of the state.

As I explained, even where there is no one to perform a particular medical procedure, you still have a right to get that procedure, whether it’s an abortion, a vasectomy or lazer eye surgery.

Quote
What if a doctor isn't comfortable preforming an abortion?  Do you want the state to compel them to?

Straw man.  No one says any doctor has to perform any surgical procedure they do not wish to.  That applies to appendix removal, abortions, vasectomies or amputation of limbs etc, etc, etc.

Stay focused.  No one advocated forcing doctors to perform abortions.

By your logic, people don’t have a right to end their own lives with the assistance of a medical professional.  And yet the courts have stated clearly that this is a RIGHT.

You still need a doctor to perform it, but that’s not relevant to whether it’s a right or not.

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In a unanimous decision on February 6, 2015, the Court struck down the provision in the Criminal Code, thereby giving Canadian adults who are mentally competent and suffering intolerably and enduringly the right to a doctor's assistance in dying.

Here’s the case, if you want to read it.   https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14637/index.do

 The terms RIGHT to assisted death is interspersed throughout the judgement.  It also mentions that doctors do not need to perform it.

So it is still a RIGHT whether or not a doctor is there to perform it.

See where your confusion lies now?
Quote
In our view, nothing in the declaration of invalidity which we propose to issue would compel physicians to provide assistance in dying.  The declaration simply renders the criminal prohibition invalid.  What follows is in the hands of the physicians’ colleges, Parliament, and the provincial legislatures.  However, we note — as did Beetz J. in addressing the topic of physician participation in abortion in Morgentaler — that a physician’s decision to participate in assisted dying is a matter of conscience and, in some cases, of religious belief (pp. 95-96).  In making this observation, we do not wish to pre-empt the legislative and regulatory response to this judgment.  Rather, we underline that the Charter  rights of patients and physicians will need to be reconciled.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 01:14:26 pm by the_squid »
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