Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 8472 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #240 on: December 22, 2020, 01:10:56 pm »
Well... you're missing a few things:

- I'm not telling people to stay out of it, I'm saying I don't need to add my voice to a topic that impacts women more than men
- Women were told to stay out of things that definitely impacted them
- I'm also not dismissing someone's opinion but it's more about how we think of a "public" discussion space around a topic

I'm really working this out in my mind, the_squid, so please feel free to add ideas to the mix here.

Again - this is about how we form "publics" because such things are very malleable and plastic today.  When democracy was designed there was a static "public" structure and today these things come up in such a way that anyone on earth can provide an opinion on any topic imaginable.  So my question is "how do we deal with it ?".

The idea I have is for people to check out if they aren't significantly impacted.

Sit out whatever topic doesn’t interest you.  I don’t care.

But you made a blanket statement that said “ CIS white male free topic”.

I disagree that an opinion should be dismissed, or not given, based on gender, sexual orientation or the colour of one’s skin.

If you want to sit it out, great.  You’re not needed.  If you’re going to say that my opinion isn’t necessary and that no one should care based on my gender and skin colour, then **** off.  Just like men not caring about women’s opinions based on their gender, I find it unsavoury.

Online Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9077
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #241 on: December 22, 2020, 01:29:52 pm »
Access to something you COULD get?  Like is there some kind of lottery or something?  Seems like you guys need to come up with a better slogan.  Because when it comes down to it, having somebody else terminate your pregnancy, paid for, by other people isn't a right.  Even if you come up with an access list for it.

And no one is arguing it is. Christ you're thicker than a concrete milkshake.

The right that is protected, again, is the ability to choose to get a medical procedure without the government telling you you cannot.

No need for a better slogan: abortion rights are extremely popular in Canada and in the U.S.A.

Quote
It also ignores science and biology.  I can understand the ignorance of the issues involved when medical science was limited to the 1960s and 1970s knowledge.  But not now.  There's no excuse.

I'll bite: what has science and biology told us about abortion that was not known in the 70s?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9120
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #242 on: December 22, 2020, 01:32:11 pm »
I don't remember gender being an issue when 9 smiling male justices decided Roe v Wade.  Just matters when a decision doesn't go your way huh?  Weird.
Regardless, I'm not sure what reproductive rights you're referring to.  Asking somebody else to preform a medical procedure, paid for by other people aren't rights.

Legislators aren't courts. One of the reasons we have courts is so legislators can't deprive people of rights.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
Agree Agree x 2 View List

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12471
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #243 on: December 22, 2020, 02:06:16 pm »
1. Sit out whatever topic doesn’t interest you.  I don’t care.But you made a blanket statement that said “ CIS white male free topic”.

2. If you’re going to say that my opinion isn’t necessary and that no one should care based on my gender and skin colour, then **** off.  Just like men not caring about women’s opinions based on their gender, I find it unsavoury.

1. Yeah, that's what I meant "Controversy that doesn't need me to weigh in"
2. Well, you are missing the context so I guess you don't get it.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #244 on: December 22, 2020, 03:07:08 pm »
1. Yeah, that's what I meant "Controversy that doesn't need me to weigh in"

Does anyone need to weigh in?  Of course not.  But, the reasons for dismissing an opinion shouldn’t be due to one’s gender or colour.

Quote

2. Well, you are missing the context so I guess you don't get it.

No, I get it.  I just don’t agree with you.  I think you’re finding it easier just to dismiss my argument as “not getting it” rather than to try and justify your phrase about cis white males.

guest78

  • Guest
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #245 on: December 22, 2020, 03:38:11 pm »
Legislators aren't courts. One of the reasons we have courts is so legislators can't deprive people of rights.
Abortion isn’t a right.  No surgical procedure is a right.  You have no right to other people’s labour.  Courts uphold the law, and the constitution.  Nowhere in the constitution is abortion mentioned as any kind of right.  If you want that codified in the constitution you’d have to amend it through the amendment process.
Funny Funny x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9120
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #246 on: December 22, 2020, 03:44:33 pm »
Abortion isn’t a right.  No surgical procedure is a right.  You have no right to other people’s labour.  Courts uphold the law, and the constitution.  Nowhere in the constitution is abortion mentioned as any kind of right.  If you want that codified in the constitution you’d have to amend it through the amendment process.

It's about a woman's right to have control over their own bodies. You know, like you have.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
Agree Agree x 1 View List

guest78

  • Guest
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #247 on: December 22, 2020, 03:48:22 pm »
It's about a woman's right to have control over their own bodies. You know, like you have.
Unfortunately it’s a lot more complex than that.  Not to mention nobody has complete control of their bodies.  Nobody can do whatever they want with them.
Funny Funny x 1 View List

Online Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9077
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #248 on: December 22, 2020, 03:57:43 pm »
Abortion isn’t a right.  No surgical procedure is a right.  You have no right to other people’s labour.  Courts uphold the law, and the constitution.

LOL this is the stupidest tack possible. No one is out here demanding unwilling medical professionals perform abortions.

Quote
Nowhere in the constitution is abortion mentioned as any kind of right.  If you want that codified in the constitution you’d have to amend it through the amendment process.

I'm begging you, please read one solitary thing on the subject. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Morgentaler
Like Like x 1 Winner Winner x 1 View List

Online Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9077
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #249 on: December 22, 2020, 03:58:15 pm »
Unfortunately it’s a lot more complex than that.  Not to mention nobody has complete control of their bodies.  Nobody can do whatever they want with them.

What comparable restrictions are there on men's bodies?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #250 on: December 22, 2020, 04:19:01 pm »
Unfortunately it’s a lot more complex than that.  Not to mention nobody has complete control of their bodies.  Nobody can do whatever they want with them.

Once again shady you should read a little on a subject, especially a somewhat complex one, before commenting on it. People in Canada have had, for a number of years, the right to terminate the existence of their bodies under certain circumstances. Also, attempting suicide has not been illegal here for 40 years or so. Try to catch up eh.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #251 on: December 22, 2020, 04:32:05 pm »
Abortion isn’t a right. 

Criminalizing abortions was ruled unconstitutional as it was a violation of Section 7 of the Constitution.

Ergo, access to an abortion is a right. 

Quote
  Nowhere in the constitution is abortion mentioned as any kind of right.  If you want that codified in the constitution you’d have to amend it through the amendment process.

Nowhere in the Constitution is kissing your spouse either.

However, if spousal kissing was criminalized under the law, it would be deemed a violation of your Constitutional rights. 

Ergo, you and your spouse have a RIGHT (despite it not being in the Constitution) to kiss.

Or maybe you’ll understand this example Shady....

Do men have a RIGHT to access a vasectomy?

If Parliament passed the “Vasectomy Outlaw Act to Save Unborn Children” that said it was illegal to get a vasectomy, this would be struck down by the courts as unconstitutional.   Hence, you have a RIGHT to access a vasectomy.

The only difference between the right to a vasectomy and an abortion being that vasectomies were never legislated against and didn’t need a court ruling.



Edited to add:  Why do we need to go through Grade 10 Social Studies for an adult?   How wildly ignorant does one need to be to not know really simple things about “rights”?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 04:44:06 pm by the_squid »
Like Like x 1 Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #252 on: December 22, 2020, 04:51:22 pm »
Maybe this will help explain unenumerated rights.  There is a section in the Charter explicitly stating we have other rights that are not listed in the Charter.

Quote
Section 26 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, like other provisions within the section 25 to 31 bloc, provides a guide in interpreting how the Charter should affect Canadian society. The section's particular role is to address rights not covered by or mentioned in the Charter.

The section reads:

26. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed as denying the existence of any other rights or freedoms that exist in Canada.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_26_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms




Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12471
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #253 on: December 22, 2020, 04:55:19 pm »
try and justify your phrase about cis white males.

I did.  And you agreed.
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10187
Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #254 on: December 22, 2020, 06:02:01 pm »
It's about a woman's right to have control over their own bodies. You know, like you have.

It gets complicated when a woman's body is sustaining the life of another human body which that woman's actions created (with the fella).
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List