Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 2812 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2020, 06:37:10 pm »
Welcome to the internet era, anonymity will do that.  People say things online that they would never do in person, but for good or bad, this is how social media works and it's our new reality.

People have the *freedom* to a) not engage in social media.  b)  abstain from controversial opinions on social media.  c) battle it out if they have the energy.

It's not going to go away though, so complaining about it is futile.

It's a giant waste of time to complain on twitter.  Nobody cares.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2020, 06:50:26 pm »
I don't think I agree.  People are fired for objectionable comments constantly.

Except what is "questionable" now is generally pretty tame and mundane.  "I don't think a transgender female is the equivalent of a female with XX chromosomes".    oooooh....  how terrible.   ::)

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2020, 07:01:25 pm »


What about them? Who did they express those "PRIVATE" views too?
Were they harassed on the internet because of those views?

No, they expressed their views to friends, who told others.

Why aren't those examples cancel culture?

Because people called people rather than tweeting?

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2020, 07:02:33 pm »
Except what is "questionable" now is generally pretty tame and mundane.  "I don't think a transgender female is the equivalent of a female with XX chromosomes".    oooooh....  how terrible.   ::)

Those are your values.  You are saying cancel culture means cancelling an opinion you happen to agree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2020, 07:09:35 pm »
It's a giant waste of time to complain on twitter.  Nobody cares.

I'm wondering if this is a reason things like Twitter will die a slow death, either that or just become echo chambers for the QAnon set and other nut cases as rational people abandon them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2020, 07:32:06 pm »
I'm wondering if this is a reason things like Twitter will die a slow death, either that or just become echo chambers for the QAnon set and other nut cases as rational people abandon them.

Twitter is actually a lot more superior to facebook when it comes to moderating insults and misinformation.  They suspend users all the time for harassment and insults.  They also don't allow misinformation, unlike Zuckerberg.

Facebook will need to give in to pressure as well, but they wing nuts go and make start their own sites like parler where in the name of 'free speech' they can spew untruths all they want.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2020, 07:35:33 pm »
It's a giant waste of time to complain on twitter.  Nobody cares.
 

It's a giant waste of time to complain anywhere on the internet, not just twitter.


Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2020, 07:40:43 pm »
It depends.  I wouldn't boycott a fiscal conservative because I know it's just a difference of opinion.

Climate change deniers and COVIDIOTS harm society, IMO, so no I can't support them in any way.

Rowling is in that grey area.  She comes off sounding innocent, but she is perpetuating beliefs that get people killed.

JK isn't perpetuating any such beliefs.  The beliefs that get people killed go something like this:  "I hate you and therefore I want you to die and so I'm going to kill you".

Jk doesn't hate anyone and isn't calling for violence and doesn't want anyone dead.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2020, 07:53:15 pm »
JK isn't perpetuating any such beliefs.  The beliefs that get people killed go something like this:  "I hate you and therefore I want you to die and so I'm going to kill you".

Jk doesn't hate anyone and isn't calling for violence and doesn't want anyone dead.

Trans women are targeted and murdered at alarming rates as a result of hate crimes.

Perpetuating the stereotype that they are just aggressive men pretending to be women while innocently claiming it's all about feminism does feed into the mentality that gets trans women killed.

ETA, but I agree it's not her objective which is why I said it's a grey area.  She inadvertently plays into the hate.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 07:55:50 pm by BC_cheque »

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2020, 08:02:39 pm »

Perpetuating the stereotype that they are just aggressive men pretending to be women while innocently claiming it's all about feminism does feed into the mentality that gets trans women killed.

It's not evident to many people how offensive it is to make anti-trans comments of any level.  Most people (something like 70%) are comfortable with trans people and a minority is very vocal in defending them.  As such, when there's a large reaction (like someone getting fired) folks who are neutral think there's some kind of angry minority that has sway over the issue. 

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2020, 02:42:42 am »
Initially I was team Rowling but apparently her newest book is about a transvestite serial killer. 

That's a gross distortion of the book.  The "transvestite serial killer" isn't a major character in the book, he's among a rogue's gallery of characters the principals talk to during their investigation.  Nor is he depicted as transgender or even transvestite.  He's depicted as a cisgender man who used a disguise to get close to a victim.

Quote
The 'evidence' that provoked the malice was so flimsy, even Twitter should have been embarrassed to publish it. Pink News, which dominates the LGBTQ+ outrage market, gave the case for the prosecution. According to the first review, 'JK Rowling’s latest book is about a murderous cis man who dresses as a woman to kill his victims', it announced.

It is about nothing of the sort, I thought. And I could say that with authority because I had just finished a review copy of Troubled Blood, the fifth novel in Rowling’s Cormoran Strike series, as research for a long piece on her politics and art I'm working on for the Critic. No honest person who takes the trouble to read it can see the novel as transphobic. But then honest people are hard to find in a culture war.

The men and women pouring out their loathing of Rowling online could not have read the unreleased book: not that their ignorance bothered them in slightest, as no mob on the rampage in history has ever stopped to read a novel.

One person had read it, however, a reviewer for the Daily Telegraph. And it was his assertion that set off the hate fest. The meat of the book, he declared is 'the investigation into a cold case: the disappearance of GP Margot Bamborough in 1974, thought to have been a victim of Dennis Creed, a transvestite serial killer. One wonders what critics of Rowling’s stance on trans issues will make of a book whose moral seems to be: never trust a man in a dress'.

...

It amounts to this. On page 75, Strike is listening to the son of an investigating officer tell him what he knows about Creed.

'He had his failures you know. Penny Hiskett, she got away from him and gave the police a description in ’71, but that didn’t help them much. She said he was dark and stocky, because he was wearing a wig at the time and all padded out in a woman’s coat. They caught him in the end because of Melody Bower. Nightclub singer, looked like Diana Ross. Creed got chatting to her at the bus stop, offered her a lift, then tried to drag her into the van when she said no. She escaped, gave the police a proper description and told them he’d said his house was of Paradise Park.'

Creed mentions the advantage of lipstick and a wig in making women think he’s 'a harmless old queer' when Strike interviews him, and that’s about that. A novelist uses a passing detail to explain how a murderer got close to one of his victims – for presumably the victim who gave the police a 'proper description' did not see him in a woman’s coat and wig. A critic, unintentionally or not, whips up a rage, and thousands allow themselves to be whipped. Pavlov’s dogs showed more critical independence.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/j-k-rowling-s-latest-novel-isn-t-transphobic-


 -k
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Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2020, 05:42:48 am »
Didn't JK say that her book touched on this topic ?
"On one level, my interest in this issue has been professional, because I’m writing a crime series, set in the present day, and my fictional female detective is of an age to be interested in, and affected by, these issues herself"

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2020, 10:02:57 am »
Didn't JK say that her book touched on this topic ?
"On one level, my interest in this issue has been professional, because I’m writing a crime series, set in the present day, and my fictional female detective is of an age to be interested in, and affected by, these issues herself"

I'm pretty sure she meant she was trying to learn about today's gender ideology so she could write about a 20s-30s woman who has grown up immersed in this environment.

 Not researching how a 1970s serial killer might use a disguise.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2020, 10:14:26 am »
I didn't know who she was, but I googled.  She is also a COVIDIOT and anti-BLM.  I didn't find anything about months of being pressured into anything, just that she was being deliberately antagonizing with the beep/boop which isn't all that surprising for a COVIDIOT/anti-BLM.

From what I'm getting, I think the anger goes beyond the pronouns. 

As far as I can tell her crime against BLM was refusing to put "BLM/ACAB" in her bio when activists demanded it, and blocking people who harrassed her about it.


Meh, but hey she got people like me googling who she is, so I guess any publicity is good publicity.

She's pretty well known and doesn't need to get internet clowns riled up to get publicity for her career. She's got some big movie credits, and was the most famous female fighter on the planet for quite a while too. She's currently on Disney/Starwars "The Mandalorian", which I guess is why SJW types feel she owes them a declaration of fealty.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2020, 10:40:49 am »
This is very much like the obfuscating 'free speech' with 'free from repercussions of public perception'.

She's free to say whatever she likes.  People are free to not read her books just as much.

Nobody is suggesting that people need to buy Rowling's books or that she's being silenced if people won't buy her books.  Book stores don't need to carry them either-- some have taken her books off their shelves, and good for them I guess.

But the campaign to destroy her reputation based on misrepresentation of her views and inaccurate claims about her work goes beyond that. It's pretty similar to the fake news campaigns being waged in politics. "JKR is transphobic, she wrote a book about a trans serial killer!" is about the same level of discourse as "Candidate X has ties to Islamic extremists!", "Candidate Y wants to disband the police and leave the streets to the gangs!"  "OMG it's true I read it on Facebook plz share this info with everyone!"  As the saying goes, lies can run halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes laced up, and we see that in social media all the time.


And obviously the deluge of threats of violence and gendered slurs directed toward Rowling speaks for itself. As does the "#RIPJKRowling" hashtag that was trending this week.

Violent misogyny is completely normalized on Twitter, to the extent that women who click the "report" button don't even get replies. But misgender a trans person and BOOM the Twitter riot police are there in a heartbeat.


 -k
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