Author Topic: The Progressive Thread!  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2020, 02:40:09 pm »
Three cheers for people like Rowling and Carano for having the guts to stand up to these bullies.

Initially I was team Rowling but apparently her newest book is about a transvestite serial killer.  She seems pretty bent on villainizing transwomen and othering them. 

I still love her and agree with her about some of the points she has raised, but I can no longer support that her agenda is just about feminism.

As for Carano, I don't put my pronouns in any of my bios but I don't go out of my way to antagonise people either and then play victim.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2020, 02:48:11 pm »
BC Cheque is one of the most open minded people in this place yet she has said she won't express support for Rowling on Twitter or even post a like because she isn't prepared to put up with the abuse that will follow. You seem to blow that off as inconsequential.


Actually, that proves MH's point about twitter and mob mentality.

I was also reluctant to express my views that Nancy Pelosi should've worn a mask at the hair salon because I was attacked for it.  People said I'm acting like she killed a baby with her bare hands.   ::)

I am also reluctant to express my views on Israel because I get branded an anti-semite.

I can be myself on this forum but lots of other places it's not worth the hassle.

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2020, 02:54:34 pm »
Initially I was team Rowling but apparently her newest book is about a transvestite serial killer.  She seems pretty bent on villainizing transwomen and othering them. 

I still love her and agree with her about some of the points she has raised, but I can no longer support that her agenda is just about feminism.

As for Carano, I don't put my pronouns in any of my bios but I don't go out of my way to antagonise people either and then play victim.

And so was Silence of the Lambs.  I don't think any character should be taboo.  Now no one can ever write about black, gay or transgender serial killers because.... they're discriminated against in real life?  hmmm...   that's just wrong.  Don't you ever draw a cartoon of Mohammed...

Maybe with JK, once you tell her she can't write something, she's going to tell you to piss off.  A gay Dumbledore (sp?) is an example, I think.
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Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2020, 03:06:24 pm »
1. Initially I was team Rowling but apparently her newest book is about a transvestite serial killer.  She seems pretty bent on villainizing transwomen and othering them. 

2. I still love her and agree with her about some of the points she has raised, but I can no longer support that her agenda is just about feminism.

3. As for Carano, I don't put my pronouns in any of my bios but I don't go out of my way to antagonise people either and then play victim.
1. Yes, it's hard to figure out what she's driving for.
2. I would still read her.  There are lots of great artists who are problematic.
3. There's a climate denier who publishes in the National Post, who owns a chic coffee shop in the student area.  Lots of people point out what the owner is all about, and it has nothing to do with the coffee.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2020, 03:07:40 pm »
And so was Silence of the Lambs.  I don't think any character should be taboo.  Now no one can ever write about black, gay or transgender serial killers because.... they're discriminated against in real life?  hmmm...   that's just wrong.  Don't you ever draw a cartoon of Mohammed...

Maybe with JK, once you tell her she can't write something, she's going to tell you to **** off.  A gay Dumbledore (sp?) is an example, I think.


She and all other authors are free to do write whatever they like.  Hey, I'm middle-eastern, have you ever seen any of us depicted nicely in movies or books?  I'm quite used to it.

However, my point is that my beliefs about Rowling evolved when I read about her depiction of her character.  I used to think she's about traditional feminism but I have to now agree that she does appear specifically anti-trans (and not just about protecting the sanctity of traditional feminism).

Offline wilber

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2020, 03:14:53 pm »
1. No they can't


We agree on that

Quote
2. I wouldn't agree with your characterization.  People who make extreme statements get stigmatized in society, not much to be said about that.



None of those Twitter abusers use their own names? There is nothing to stigmatize or hold them accountable for their extreme statements. I'm with anyone who stands up to people like that. I don't have to agree with them.




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3. There are some efforts to extinguish free discussion, I agree, but not clear to me if this registers as a serious problem or not.  ie. if the scale of this warrants a general concern

I think it does.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 03:16:44 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2020, 03:18:20 pm »

She and all other authors are free to do write whatever they like. 

But they aren't. It isn't enough to be critical or disagree, they must be cancelled, fired, extinguished, whatever.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2020, 03:18:54 pm »

1. None of those Twitter abusers use their own names? 

2. I think it does.

1. No.  They hide behind their handles when posting objectionable things.  Maya Forstater didn't, though.  So she got fired.
2. Why ?  Is there any way to characterize the scale of what is happening, objectively ?  Or is this the kind of thing where if it happens one single time it should be front page news ?

Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2020, 03:20:21 pm »
But they aren't. It isn't enough to be critical or disagree, they must be cancelled, fired, extinguished, whatever.

People are cancelled all the time.  And people get upset with it, too.  It doesn't usually change things.

Is there some idea that right-leaning views are cancelled more than left-leaning ones ?  How can we substantiate that objectively ?

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2020, 03:25:53 pm »
But they aren't. It isn't enough to be critical or disagree, they must be cancelled, fired, extinguished, whatever.

This is very much like the obfuscating 'free speech' with 'free from repercussions of public perception'.

She's free to say whatever she likes.  People are free to not read her books just as much.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2020, 03:31:05 pm »
3. There's a climate denier who publishes in the National Post, who owns a chic coffee shop in the student area.  Lots of people point out what the owner is all about, and it has nothing to do with the coffee.

Even though I grappled with it initially, I cancelled my COVIDIOT hairdresser even though she is good at what she does.  I don't want to give my money to someone I believe is doing harm in society.


Offline MH

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2020, 03:33:57 pm »
Even though I grappled with it initially, I cancelled my COVIDIOT hairdresser even though she is good at what she does.  I don't want to give my money to someone I believe is doing harm in society.

Boycotts are a tough one.   You can't think too much about it, or you would seriously boycott everything.

As I like to say... even the unabomber went into town for nails from time to time.

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2020, 03:37:31 pm »
This is very much like the obfuscating 'free speech' with 'free from repercussions of public perception'.

She's free to say whatever she likes.  People are free to not read her books just as much.

No one is saying everyone should read her books.  What the mob wants is for her not to be allowed to write her books because they don't like her views.  Or they don't want her to be allowed to speak/twitter or whatever.   HUGE difference. 

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2020, 03:38:58 pm »

Is there some idea that right-leaning views are cancelled more than left-leaning ones ? 

First, your contention that Rowling's views are right-wing is pretty asinine.

Second, can you name any left-leaning speakers who have been canceled?

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Progressive Thread!
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2020, 03:42:30 pm »
Boycotts are a tough one.   You can't think too much about it, or you would seriously boycott everything.

As I like to say... even the unabomber went into town for nails from time to time.

It depends.  I wouldn't boycott a fiscal conservative because I know it's just a difference of opinion.

Climate change deniers and COVIDIOTS harm society, IMO, so no I can't support them in any way.

Rowling is in that grey area.  She comes off sounding innocent, but she is perpetuating beliefs that get people killed.