Author Topic: The End of the World Thread  (Read 390 times)

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Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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The End of the World Thread
« on: May 05, 2019, 01:14:16 am »
We are living on borrowed time due to climate change, and it is inevitable that a catastrophic event will befall the Earth soon enoug.  The only question is when?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/permafrost-melting-1.5119767

https://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/national-today-newsletter-climate-change-food-north-1.5079308
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Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2019, 05:39:50 am »


"The research bolsters previous warnings from defense and intelligence agencies that climate change could trigger more conflicts severe enough to uproot populations.

While a changing climate wonít always lead to armed conflict, the regional conditions in the Middle East in 2010 were just right to feed a spiral of violence. Migration resulting from those rifts stretched from Syria to Sudan, according to Raya Muttarak, one of the studyís co-authors from the U.K.ís University of East Anglia.

ďIt takes a perfect storm,Ē Muttarak said, pointing out that political conditions play an outsize role. ďIf itís too authoritarian or too democratic the results are different.Ē

The studyís other authors, who work at institutions in Austria and China, provided tangible advice to world leaders looking to stem the flow of refugees fleeing conflict.

Policies to ďimprove the adaptive capacity to deal with the effects of climate change in developing economies may have additional returns by reducing the likelihood of conflict and forced migration,Ē they wrote."


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/pentagon-fears-confirmed-climate-change-leads-to-war-refugees
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Offline TimG

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2019, 07:02:25 am »
We are living on borrowed time due to climate change, and it is inevitable that a catastrophic event will befall the Earth soon enoug.  The only question is when?
Not really. It seems like every human generation has an intense desire to believe their time on the planet is "special". "end of the world" religions/ideologies tend to fill this need which is why the "end of the world" is always just around the corner for *every* generation. But in the end things tend to work out and this period of time will become as forgettable as the 1520s.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2019, 10:00:01 am »
Climate change will result in migration. In 1600, the world population was less than 600 million, now we are over 7 billion, headed for 9 billion by 2050. Old rules wonít apply.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:11:40 am by wilber »
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Offline TimG

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2019, 10:15:49 am »
Climate change will result in migration. In 1600, the world population was leas than 600 million, now we are over 7 billion, headed for 9 billion by 2050. Old rules wonít apply.
In 1600 any localized crop failure would result in mass starvation and migration. That only stopped because cheap energy provided by fossil fuels meant food could be moved to where it was needed. Take away that cheap energy and that problem will come back and it won't because of climate change per se.

More importantly, the "climate change migration" claim is often just another scare tactic used by political actors to silence opposition to their pet polices. In this case, the pet policy is the general desire by those on the left to dump the world's problems onto the tax payers in developed countries. Nothing that is said in media about "climate change migration" should be taken at face value.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:54:34 am by TimG »
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Offline Omni

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2019, 10:54:27 am »
Not really. It seems like every human generation has an intense desire to believe their time on the planet is "special". "end of the world" religions/ideologies tend to fill this need which is why the "end of the world" is always just around the corner for *every* generation. But in the end things tend to work out and this period of time will become as forgettable as the 1520s.

I don't think in the 1520's we were driving around in over a billion autos every day.

Offline waldo

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 11:36:41 am »
More importantly, the "climate change migration" claim is often just another scare tactic used by political actors to silence opposition to their pet polices. In this case, the pet policy is the general desire by those on the left to dump the world's problems onto the tax payers in developed countries. Nothing that is said in media about "climate change migration" should be taken at face value.

well... in the past you have stated, effectively, developed nations should take care of themselves and have no obligations toward developing nations that haven't any causal ties to impacting climate change tied to developed country emissions. So - thanks for your consistency!

but c'mon, as the Adapt-R-Us guy, how can you turn your back on your people... those ultimate adapters forced to leave their homes/countries due to sea-level rise, extreme weather events, drought and water scarcity, etc..

Offline wilber

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2019, 11:44:57 am »
We are seeing it in Africa now and the northern migration in the Americas is also at least partly due to climate. The sheer numbers involved will dwarf previous migrations and overwhelm some countries.
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Offline queenmandy85

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2019, 11:51:33 am »
A good example of what happens when there is a sudden change in climate is to look at Europe in the 4th and 5th centuries. The western Roman Empire collapsed. Northern Europeans began moving south and over ran the Roman frontier. Why did they move south? Crop failure due to a drop in temperature. The Roman army was unable to move because it was dependent on wheeled transport and their incredible road system was crumbling due to frost heaves. The "barbarians" were not dependent on roads.
While the collapse of the western Empire had many causes, it was the "little ice-age that brought it down. In spite of the instability and corruption at the top, the government continued to function due to an incredible professional civil service. However, even they were incapable of dealing with the cooler climate. The actual transition from civilization to dark ages took a decade or two, the collapse was likely less than five years.
That was only a minor shift in temperature, likely caused by volcanic activity, and it was confined mainly to Europe.
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Offline TimG

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2019, 12:19:17 pm »
We are seeing it in Africa now and the northern migration in the Americas is also at least partly due to climate. The sheer numbers involved will dwarf previous migrations and overwhelm some countries.
Over population and dysfunctional governments leads to migration. Climate change is not a significant factor in migration pressures from Africa or South America since these pressures would be happening even if climate change was not an issue.

Trying to blame developed countries for cultural and political problems in developing countries is simply a means to extort money.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 12:25:01 pm by TimG »
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Offline wilber

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2019, 12:24:21 pm »
Over population and dysfunctional governments leads to migration. Climate change is not a significant factor in Africa or South America. These pressures would be happening even if climate change was not an issue. As I said, climate change and migration is most a political tool used by political actors to push an agenda that has little to do with climate change.

Did I not mention population? The consequences of multiple crop failures due to climate are what drive migration. They also drive political instability. I'm surprised you would think they are unrelated issues.
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Offline TimG

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2019, 12:37:59 pm »
Did I not mention population? The consequences of multiple crop failures due to climate are what drive migration. They also drive political instability. I'm surprised you would think they are unrelated issues.
My issue is the nonsensical attempts to take complex problems where climate change is a minor contributor and then claim that it is all about climate change. It isn't. 90%+ of the problem is dysfunctional governments and overpopulation which were most certainly not caused by climate change.

As for crop failures: they have occurred since humans started planting crops. The only difference is we have the option of moving food thanks to cheap transportation costs and record high agricultural productivity in countries that are able to produce good government.

The best solution for the third world is better government. Figuring out how to provide better government in third world countries is a difficult problem but is it is a lot easier to deal with than CO2 emissions because we have lots of working examples of good government today.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 12:39:38 pm by TimG »

Offline wilber

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2019, 01:21:01 pm »
Itís interesting that you are quite capable of linking more than one thing together as long as climate change isnít one of them. You are quite consistent. Oh well.
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Offline TimG

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2019, 01:26:30 pm »
Itís interesting that you are quite capable of linking more than one thing together as long as climate change isnít one of them. You are quite consistent. Oh well.
I am not one printing story after story in the media claiming these things are all about climate change. Why are you whinging about my opinion which is, simply put, a better explanation of the available facts than we get from the media?
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Offline wilber

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Re: The End of the World Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2019, 01:36:10 pm »
I am not one printing story after story in the media claiming these things are all about climate change. Why are you whinging about my opinion which is, simply put, a better explanation of the available facts than we get from the media?

Actually it isnít but as you say, it is your opinion, to which you are quite entitled.
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