Author Topic: A celebrity has died thread  (Read 15013 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #165 on: January 27, 2020, 11:06:39 pm »
It can work to get you going especially since they allowed VFR OTT, but I would never suggest anyone use it unless you are comfortable/qualified tocontinue flying "on the guages".

The thing is, if you are going to fly on gauges you will probably have to climb into actual instrument conditions and use IFR procedures, particularly in BC where terrain doesn't give you much choice.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #166 on: January 27, 2020, 11:12:20 pm »
The thing is, if you are going to fly on gauges you will probably have to climb into actual instrument conditions and use IFR procedures, particularly in BC where terrain doesn't give you much choice.

Yes I think this driver was in over his head so to speak and couldn't find a way out. one thing that told me a lot about what led to the crash was from a part of the video which showed quite clearly the tail section clearly identifiable and lying by itself away from the rest of the wreckage, very likely caused by an extreme last minute over control input in an attempt to avoid terrain collision.

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #167 on: January 27, 2020, 11:29:02 pm »
Yes I think this driver was in over his head so to speak and couldn't find a way out. one thing that told me a lot about what led to the crash was from a part of the video which showed quite clearly the tail section clearly identifiable and lying by itself away from the rest of the wreckage, very likely caused by an extreme last minute over control input in an attempt to avoid terrain collision.

I'm not a hoppycopter guy but I would have thought someone flying this type of machine would have been instrument rated. I can see him losing track of his position but a loss of control surprises me.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2020, 01:12:32 am »
I'm not a hoppycopter guy but I would have thought someone flying this type of machine would have been instrument rated. I can see him losing track of his position but a loss of control surprises me.

I think he lost control after he lost a significant part of the airframe.  As I say, the ass end of the tail boom is clearly visible a distance from the rest to the wreckage.

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #169 on: January 28, 2020, 11:04:21 am »
What kind of aerodynamic load would cause the tail to come off a helicopter? I see the S76 has some sort of stabilizer but it doesn't look big enough to apply that kind of load. Surely the rotor isn't capable of doing it. Do you think it hit something?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #170 on: January 28, 2020, 12:42:40 pm »
What kind of aerodynamic load would cause the tail to come off a helicopter? I see the S76 has some sort of stabilizer but it doesn't look big enough to apply that kind of load. Surely the rotor isn't capable of doing it. Do you think it hit something?

The main rotor actually is capable of doing it and from what I can see in the grainy video, the section of tail boom that is laying there separate from the rest of the debris is commensurate with a rotor strike. And again the video is grainy but if you look toward the opposite direction from where the tail is and where the smoke was wafting up, I believe what I saw there are (two) of the original (four) main rotor blades. Those items are laying more or less parallel (not of course normal since they are installed at 90 deg. to each other) and seem to be connected to a basically unidentifiable piece of (stuff) but which could well be the main transmission, which drives them. So my speculation would be that the main rotor hit and severed the tail section, either due to some sort of mechanical failure, or by a very violent series control inputs aimed at collision avoidance arising from the very poor visibility (fog) in the area and the rising slope of the surrounding terrain. They could also have actually got close enough to trees in the bad vis. to have had a main rotor strike, although that scenario doesn't quite fit the lay of the land vis a vis the direction of the debris field. It will take some time to pick up all those pieces and sort them but I would be looking right away for evidence of main rotor leading edge material on sections of that tail piece.       

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2020, 07:19:42 pm »
Interesting, I didn't know there might be enough cyclical movement or flex for a main rotor to hit the tail
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2020, 08:05:42 pm »
Interesting, I didn't know there might be enough cyclical movement or flex for a main rotor to hit the tail

Extreme control inputs along with reduced RPM, possibly from an engine failure, could cause that impact. Unfortunately no "black boxes" on those aircraft to tell us what was happening prior to the event.

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #173 on: January 28, 2020, 08:41:03 pm »
Looks now like he may have hit the hiil and then fell into the valley.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #174 on: January 28, 2020, 09:43:53 pm »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(book)

Helicopter people... I read this book... It's on topic...

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #175 on: January 29, 2020, 12:53:25 pm »
They are now saying  the aircraft was intact when it hit the ground, the wreckage was spread out do to the violence of the crash. Like there was a really high forward speed as well as a high rate of descent.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #176 on: January 29, 2020, 01:23:05 pm »
They are now saying  the aircraft was intact when it hit the ground, the wreckage was spread out do to the violence of the crash. Like there was a really high forward speed as well as a high rate of descent.

The aerial video I have seen quite clearly shows the remains of the tailboom lying on one side of the crash site (where you can see the smoke rising) and the last few feet of the boom including the tail rotor/fin on the far side of the site.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 01:24:48 pm by Omni »

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #177 on: January 29, 2020, 01:23:42 pm »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(book)

Helicopter people... I read this book... It's on topic...

Good read with a surprise ending.

At least it was a surprise ending if you read it before the internet.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 01:37:16 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #178 on: January 29, 2020, 01:27:49 pm »
The aerial video I have seen quite clearly shows the remains of the tailboom lying on one side of the crash site (where you can see the smoke rising) and the last few feet of the boom including the tail rotor/fin on the far side of the site.


I just got that from what one of the inspectors said on TV. I listened to the ATC transcript and it sounds like he was just winging it hoping to transition to VFR at some point. At one point he reported being VFR at 1500 ft but when he asked for flight following, ATC told him he was too low. Too bad he just didn't climb when he knew where he was and ask for an IFR clearance.

I see what you are saying though.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 01:35:44 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: A celebrity has died thread
« Reply #179 on: January 29, 2020, 01:36:34 pm »
I'm just got that from what one of the inspectors said on TV. I listened to the ATC transcripts and it sounds like he was just winging it hoping to transition to VFR at some point. At one point he reported being VFR at 1500 ft but when he asked for flight following, ATC told him he was too low. Too bad he just didn't climb when he knew where he was and ask for an IFR clearance.

I heard he did have an instrument rating so yeah I wonder why, when he got into the shyte, he didn't just pull power, climb and call ATC. Surely he would have a GPS in there that could steer him away from higher terrain as he climbed. Perhaps he didn't have a lot of IMC experience and was therefore hesitant.