Author Topic: Superhero Movies  (Read 2714 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #120 on: September 14, 2021, 01:44:39 am »
Bit late to the thread here, but I just thought I'd address this...
The superhero genre has just become so formulaic and contrived.
It is true that there are some common elements in many super hero movies. (For example, all the Marvel movies with 1-off villains, battles with hoards of CGI monsters, snappy one liners, etc.)

But, for all that, there is also a significant amount of variety as well. Captain America: The First Avenger has elements of a historic movie. Guardians of the Galaxy is a sci-fi space thriller. Ant-Man is a heist movie. Captain America: Winter Soldier has elements of a spy movie.

And you can also find variety if you look at the main characters: Tony Stark is an egotistical snarky tech genius. Steve Rogers is an individual dedicated to the public good. Peter Parker is a teenager trying to figure out his place in the world. Bruce Banner may be a genius like Stark, but he lacks the ego (but instead substitutes concern over his condition).

Claiming that they are "all formulaic" is like claiming all westerns are the same because "they all have horses and guys with six-shooters".
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Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #121 on: September 14, 2021, 05:02:20 am »
 I hate that this genre is dominant.

A friend who is in his mid 40s likes 'em and recommended Deadpool.

No go.

Am I lost?  Does anyone over fifty like these?

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #122 on: September 14, 2021, 08:53:59 am »
I hate that this genre is dominant.

A friend who is in his mid 40s likes 'em and recommended Deadpool.

No go.

Am I lost?  Does anyone over fifty like these?

I grew up loving the comics.  There was a used book store in a local market that sold them for pennies. (If I'd kept all I had they might be worth more than pennies now)

I don't have the same enthusiasm for the movies though.  I've seen three or four, and they were okay, but they didn't fill me with a desire to keep up.

Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #123 on: September 14, 2021, 09:31:54 am »
I grew up loving the comics.  There was a used book store in a local market that sold them for pennies. (If I'd kept all I had they might be worth more than pennies now)

I don't have the same enthusiasm for the movies though.  I've seen three or four, and they were okay, but they didn't fill me with a desire to keep up.

I loved comics too.  I don't think the movies capture the same vibe.

Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #124 on: September 14, 2021, 09:39:16 am »
More thoughts:

These movies are loud and imposing.  They are very busy and frenetic.

Comics were quiet with bursts of excitement.  They were arcane and a secret passion for nerds.

Star wars was like a comic book. 

I want to understand this new medium as I hate being a naysayer but I don't have an 'in' path.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #125 on: September 14, 2021, 10:05:51 am »
I hate that this genre is dominant.
I can understand you not liking these movies. Not every film (or film genre) will appeal to everyone.

But the fact that the genre is dominant shouldn't really make much difference to you. Yes, Avengers: Endgame earned more money than many small countries have in GDP. Yes, 2 of the biggest movies in the theater right now are Marvel Comic book movies.

But, even a small theater will likely have a half-dozen or more screens, and even if they have multiple showings of comic book movies going on at the same time, there are still plenty of opportunities for films of other genres. (And that's not counting all the films on streaming services).

Right now, there are 2 comic book movies in theater... Shang-Chi and Black Widow. Both of them take up a lot of screens. But, there are also alternatives. Do you like horror movies? You have Don't Breath and Malignant. Want a serious drama? Stillwater. Want a non-comic action movies? F9 or Jungle Cruise. Want something animated or more appropriate for kids? Boss Baby or Space Jam. And that doesn't count all the movies that are either coming soon, or have gone to my local repatory theater. (Granted, if you live in a small down with only a single-screen theater you won't have those options, but most Canadians do live in bigger population centers.)
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A friend who is in his mid 40s likes 'em and recommended Deadpool.
No go.
Am I lost?  Does anyone over fifty like these?
I am over 50 and I like them. (And, I didn't even read comic books as a kid, so its not like I am reliving my younger days.)

I appreciate them for several reasons:
- The special effects and action scenes. (The same sort of reason people may watch Star Wars or the Fast and Furious movies... the fact that Super Hero Movies have, well, Super Heroes just provides a reason for the action to happen)

- The story lines can sometimes be well-thought out. (Which makes sense... comic book movies are drawing on decades of printed material, so they have a built-in repository of plot ideas that have worked.) Granted, this can be sort of hit-and-miss; Marvel/Disney is smart in picking the right people to head up the comics division, who have a good idea of what work. On the other hand, DC involved Zac "Color? what's that" Snyder to build up its universe, which has result in... less than stellar results.

- For movies based on guys running around in spandex and punching each other (all the while uttering 1-line quips), they can often have very dramatic moments. It was a well-done scene at the end of Infinity war when Spider-person says "I don't feel good" as he gets dusted, or the death scene/funeral at the end of End Game.

Overall, I just find the movies fun (Well, many of them anyways), and I haven't yet outgrown the idea that movies CAN be straight-up entertainment. They aren't the only type of movie I watch (I can appreciate a good drama, or comedy, or a non-super hero sci-fi or action movie), but I still like them.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2021, 10:21:19 am »
 Not a movie….   But anyone watch “The Boys”?

It takes the superhero movie and flips it on its head.  The “heroes” are egotistical psychopaths that get away with murder with good marketing from a company that created them and tries to manage their image. 

The heroes are the normal people who are trying to expose them for what they really are. 

It’s on Amazon Prime.

I thought it was excellent.




https://youtu.be/tcrNsIaQkb4
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Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #127 on: September 14, 2021, 10:29:52 am »
I can understand you not liking these movies. Not every film (or film genre) will appeal to everyone.

There are lots of genres I hate but I generally always LIKE the best of the genre.

Scifi horror ?  Bleah.  The original Alien ?  Perfect.

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But the fact that the genre is dominant shouldn't really make much difference to you. Yes, Avengers: Endgame earned more money than many small countries have in GDP. Yes, 2 of the biggest movies in the theater right now are Marvel Comic book movies.

Well, it makes a difference for two reasons:

1. I feel left out ... and my choices are drastically reduced
2. I wonder why this kind of utter escapism prevails and feel alienated in a different way


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But, even a small theater will likely have a half-dozen or more screens, and even if they have multiple showings of comic book movies going on at the same time, there are still plenty of opportunities for films of other genres. (And that's not counting all the films on streaming services).

I think it's fairly common knowledge that other genres are dying because Superhero films are date night films.
 
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- For movies based on guys running around in spandex and punching each other (all the while uttering 1-line quips), they can often have very dramatic moments. It was a well-done scene at the end of Infinity war when Spider-person says "I don't feel good" as he gets dusted, or the death scene/funeral at the end of End Game.

I can appreciate good scenes and still not like the movie overall.  I loved one scene in Titanic and it almost saved the movie for me.  Still didn't like it.

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Overall, I just find the movies fun (Well, many of them anyways), and I haven't yet outgrown the idea that movies CAN be straight-up entertainment. They aren't the only type of movie I watch (I can appreciate a good drama, or comedy, or a non-super hero sci-fi or action movie), but I still like them.

Ok - toss me one then - something on Prime or Netflix ok ?

Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #128 on: September 14, 2021, 10:30:25 am »
Ahhh thanks Squid I will try that one.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2021, 10:35:27 am »
More thoughts:

These movies are loud and imposing.  They are very busy and frenetic
Well, yes, they are. But then, so are pretty much ever action or sci-fi adventure movie. Its the nature of stuff that's not a drama or comedy.

And despite them being "busy and frenetic", they do have their... quieter... moments.

Look at End Game (well, Ok, you probably didn't see it, but you know what I mean)... Lots of over-the-top action, ending in a huge CGI battle where the heroes face off against an army of nameless villains. But it also had quieter moments, such as scenes with Stark lost in space and trying to survive. Or some of the scenes where people are trying to handle the post-blip society. Or Thor talking to people on Asgard. Or sometimes those quieter moments had elements of humor (the early attempts at time travel).

And those moments were much better done than (for example) the "drama/humor" in many of the Star Wars prequels/sequels.

Offline MH

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2021, 10:40:23 am »
Well, yes, they are. But then, so are pretty much ever action or sci-fi adventure movie. Its the nature of stuff that's not a drama or comedy.

I suppose so.  I even have movies that I have seen that are 100% chaos at times - like the last bit of Texas Chainsaw which is essentially just screaming.  I have seen it several times in the cinema and you leave just numb from the adrenaline. 

Maybe I need to try another one.


 

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Look at End Game (well, Ok, you probably didn't see it, but you know what I mean)... Lots of over-the-top action, ending in a huge CGI battle where the heroes face off against an army of nameless villains. But it also had quieter moments, such as scenes with Stark lost in space and trying to survive. Or some of the scenes where people are trying to handle the post-blip society. Or Thor talking to people on Asgard. Or sometimes those quieter moments had elements of humor (the early attempts at time travel).

And those moments were much better done than (for example) the "drama/humor" in many of the Star Wars prequels/sequels.

I had a feeling that whatever movie you were talking about would come up if I just googled End Game.

So "Avengers End Game" came up.  Is that it ?  People like that one ?

Offline MH

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2021, 10:42:52 am »
Not a movie….   But anyone watch “The Boys”?
It takes the superhero movie and flips it on its head.  The “heroes” are egotistical psychopaths that get away with murder with good marketing from a company that created them and tries to manage their image. 
The heroes are the normal people who are trying to expose them for what they really are. 
I thought it was excellent.
I agree... its an excellent series. Some decent story lines, some good action and drama. Characters that are warped enough to be interesting but not dull. And some very good touches of humor.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #133 on: September 14, 2021, 11:00:48 am »
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Well, yes, they are. But then, so are pretty much ever action or sci-fi adventure movie. Its the nature of stuff that's not a drama or comedy.
I suppose so.  I even have movies that I have seen that are 100% chaos at times - like the last bit of Texas Chainsaw which is essentially just screaming.  I have seen it several times in the cinema and you leave just numb from the adrenaline. 

Maybe I need to try another one.
Maybe, but if its not a genre that you like then trying to force yourself to watch them will probably just be a bad experience.

(Kind of like telling a person "I don't like heavy metal grunge fusion folk rock"..... and someone telling you "Oh, but you haven't heard this particular heavy metal grunge fusion folk rock song", which ends up sounding just like every other song of that type.)

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Look at End Game (well, Ok, you probably didn't see it, but you know what I mean)... Lots of over-the-top action, ending in a huge CGI battle where the heroes face off against an army of nameless villains. But it also had quieter moments, such as scenes with Stark lost in space and trying to survive. Or some of the scenes where people are trying to handle the post-blip society. Or Thor talking to people on Asgard. Or sometimes those quieter moments had elements of humor (the early attempts at time travel).

And those moments were much better done than (for example) the "drama/humor" in many of the Star Wars prequels/sequels.
I had a feeling that whatever movie you were talking about would come up if I just googled End Game.

So "Avengers End Game" came up.  Is that it ?
Yes that is the one.

Had you seriously not heard of that movie? I can understand not wanting to see it in the theater, but still I'm surprised that you hadn't at least heard of it... It broke all sorts of box-office records, and for a while it was the top box-office draw of all movies (even beating Avatar, before Avatar was re-released.)
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People like that one ?
Yes, very much so. As you showed in another post, it got a 94% on Rotten tomatoes from critics, and a 90% from the audience. (Not to mention all the box office records it broke).

Unfortunately for you, I would not recommend watching it (at least not at this point)... It is a movie that is part of the larger "Marvel Cinematic Universe", and events in THAT movie depend on knowing the people and characters in earlier movies (most notably Avengers: Infinity War).

To me, its a double-edged sword... such a complex set of movies makes it hard to just "jump in" to a particular movie. (Kind of like if you tried watching one of the Star Wars sequels without having seen A New Hope.) But for me, I have an appreciation for the way they have built the Universe over multiple movies. Events in one movie end up having an impact in movies that initially seem un-related. But it requires a huge buy-in.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Superhero Movies
« Reply #134 on: September 14, 2021, 11:33:50 am »
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But the fact that the genre is dominant shouldn't really make much difference to you. Yes, Avengers: Endgame earned more money than many small countries have in GDP. Yes, 2 of the biggest movies in the theater right now are Marvel Comic book movies.
Well, it makes a difference for two reasons:

1. I feel left out ...
I know it probably doesn't mean much, but I'd have to say you shouldn't FEEL left out. Unless all your friends go to super-hero movies, and hang out at Comicon, you don't need to join in to the love of super-heroes to avoid feeling left-out.
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and my choices are drastically reduced
They are reduced, but as I said before, you still have plenty of alternatives in the theater and on streaming.
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2. I wonder why this kind of utter escapism prevails and feel alienated in a different way
For the same reason people like the escapism of Star Wars, or the Fast and Furious movies, or even the James Bond movies.... many people are naturally drawn to that type of entertainment.
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I think it's fairly common knowledge that other genres are dying because Superhero films are date night films.
I am not really sure that Super Hero movies are 'killing' other genres.

You are seeing a shift in theater-going habits... better technology in home theaters, technology like streaming and DVDs means that the theatrical life of some movies is curtailed. If your local Megaplex wasn't showing a movie with guys dressed in spandex punching each other, I doubt you'd see more serious dramas or comedies in the theatre. Instead, you'd see other types of bug, huge dumb blockbusters (like Transformers 23: Optimus gets a prostate exam). Or, the theater would just close up because, well, why go to the theater to see "Seth Rogen makes jokes" when  you can stream it on Netflix at home?
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Overall, I just find the movies fun (Well, many of them anyways), and I haven't yet outgrown the idea that movies CAN be straight-up entertainment. They aren't the only type of movie I watch (I can appreciate a good drama, or comedy, or a non-super hero sci-fi or action movie), but I still like them.
Ok - toss me one then - something on Prime or Netflix ok ?
That's actually getting kind of hard to do.

Many of the best super-hero movies are from Marvel. Others are from Fox. But Disney has bought both of those, and many of the titles have been pulled from Netflix and Prime, to be shown only on Disney+.

There were also the DC movies (like Man of Steel and Superman v Batman) that might be available on Netflix, but many people find the DC movies to be a bit... lackluster.

Then of course there is the issue I have mentioned in previous postings: Many Super Hero movies have tie-ins to other super hero films, which can make it confusing for anyone who simply want to "jump in".

If you really want to give comic book movies another try, I might recommend "Iron Man". It was one of the first movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (so you wouldn't have had to have seen others in the franchise). And, it had many elements that I like about the genre... decent special effects/action, mix of humor and drama. (Unfortunately it is no longer on Netflix. Although you may be able to catch it on the regular TV.) Another alternative would be Guardians of the Galaxy (another Marvel movie which is more of a space adventure. It does rely a lot more on humor, for what its worth.)

Or you can try movies in the X-men franchise (starting from the original X-men movie), but the quality of those films was all over the place.

Of course the greatest Super Hero of all (and the greatest Super hero to ever grace the big screen) was Orgazmo. But good luck finding it on any streaming service.

Edited to add:
I almost forgot... once set of decent super hero moves that is available on Netflix is the Batman trilogy series by Christopher Nolan (with Christian Bale as Bruce Wayne/Batman). They are a lot more serious than (for example) the Marvel movies... the director took a lot more grounded approach to them. (He's still a vigilante dressed in a bat costume and has fantastic gadgets, but there's no 'super hero flying', very little humor, etc.) The first 2 movies were good... Batman Begins, and The Dark Knight (the Dark Night has over 90% critical acclaim on Rotten Tomatoes, and won multiple Oscars.) The third movie (Dark Knight Rises) was, in my opinion, much less good.

If you want to make another attempt at Super Heroes, MAYBE Batman Begins/Dark Knight might work for you. Just don't get your hopes up.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 11:45:21 am by segnosaur »
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