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Author Topic: Staring at screens  (Read 180 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2018, 11:01:16 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on December 16, 2018, 10:49:03 am
I was more interested in the idea that young men are getting the kind of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment and community from these games that they aren't able to find in real life.

Well, WE do this... here... now... with this post !   :D
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Offline Omni

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2018, 11:10:55 am »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on December 16, 2018, 10:26:13 am
It's amazing how many young kids are so attached to their tablet or cellphone.  I'll see a lot of parents even outside the home and their kids will be sitting watching cartoons on a phone.  These kids are absolutely mesmerized by it.  Especially CG cartoons I find. 

 I've known some parents with very energetic & active kids who wander & "misbehave" a lot, but amazingly once given a phone to watch a video they will sit quietly for long periods.  It's an effective parenting tool in that way, but you have to wonder what it's doing to our kids.

One thing it's doing to some kids is giving them goose eggs on their foreheads. I was out for a walk not so long ago and watched a teen age girl walk straight into a telephone pole while she tapped out what I'm sure must have been extremely important data on her stupid phone. I thought I might have to cross the street and dial 911 but she was able to get back to her feet and stagger along on her way. I hope she took a lesson from the incident.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2018, 11:29:25 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on December 16, 2018, 10:49:03 am
I was more interested in the idea that young men are getting the kind of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment and community from these games that they aren't able to find in real life.

I agree.  Games create rewards and & sense of achievement, while online gaming has created new social communities.

I used to play a ton of video games, and played online a ton.  It's essentially living in a fantasy world.  You can go on an adventure towards achieving some grand goal in a video game, or you can do the same in real life, which is harder but more meaningful, productive, & healthy.  You can make new friends at work, or you can make new friends playing online & talk to them over headsets.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2018, 11:40:18 am »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on December 16, 2018, 11:29:25 am
I agree.  Games create rewards and & sense of achievement, while online gaming has created new social communities.

I used to play a ton of video games, and played online a ton.  It's essentially living in a fantasy world.  You can go on an adventure towards achieving some grand goal in a video game, or you can do the same in real life, which is harder but more meaningful, productive, & healthy.  You can make new friends at work, or you can make new friends playing online & talk to them over headsets.

The difference is the rewards are almost certain in video games, and far more immediate. The goals in real life might take years and never be reached (as the article points out). And perhaps you can make friends at work, or perhaps not. That depends on the type of work. Much of our jobs now have little social interaction between workers, and management which frowns on it anyway. I was in a job once in the government where I could come to work in the morning and go home in the evening not having spoken in person to a single human being. It paid well, but my interactions were all via tightly monitored email (never to be used for personal messages, including "going to coffee?" let alone jokes), or on occasion by phone.
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guest7

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2018, 11:41:16 am »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on December 16, 2018, 11:29:25 am
I agree.  Games create rewards and & sense of achievement, while online gaming has created new social communities.

I used to play a ton of video games, and played online a ton.  It's essentially living in a fantasy world.  You can go on an adventure towards achieving some grand goal in a video game, or you can do the same in real life, which is harder but more meaningful, productive, & healthy.  You can make new friends at work, or you can make new friends playing online & talk to them over headsets.

There is a science fiction story I read a long time ago, where people could simply use a jack plug directly into their brains to escape reality.  I forget who wrote it, (William Gibson maybe?) or what the title was, but I don't think it's a long stretch from the current interfaces to something that has the same effect.  I wonder who the first person to starve to death will be.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2018, 11:44:50 am »
Quote from: bcsapper on December 16, 2018, 11:41:16 am
There is a science fiction story I read a long time ago, where people could simply use a jack plug directly into their brains to escape reality.  I forget who wrote it, (William Gibson maybe?) or what the title was, but I don't think it's a long stretch from the current interfaces to something that has the same effect.  I wonder who the first person to starve to death will be.

I don't think there's any question that this is going to happen. Again, from the article there's mention of a guy who wouldn't even shower, and possibly not eat, if he wasn't nagged about it. When VR games take over that's going to be hugely addictive, especially when the alternative is making sandwiches for minimum wage and being harangued by your manager. And if they can make progress on VR sex (and yes, they're working on it) there'll be precious little reason to ever come out into the real world.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

guest7

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2018, 12:44:21 pm »
Quote from: MH on December 16, 2018, 10:39:12 am
I'm addicted to my phone, or rather, online discussion of things.  It's a problem.  I have better things to do.

Phone?  That has to be difficult.  I can't come on here if I'm not in front of a PC. 

That said, I do find arguing addictive...
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2018, 03:10:54 pm »
Quote from: bcsapper on December 16, 2018, 11:41:16 am
There is a science fiction story I read a long time ago, where people could simply use a jack plug directly into their brains to escape reality.  I forget who wrote it, (William Gibson maybe?) or what the title was, but I don't think it's a long stretch from the current interfaces to something that has the same effect.  I wonder who the first person to starve to death will be.

The book/film "Ready Player One" is about a future where people plug into a VR video game universe and can be anybody or anything, and most of your friends are online.  I found it a fun movie in a popcorn way.  At some point we'll get to that point.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2018, 03:21:50 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on December 16, 2018, 11:40:18 am
The difference is the rewards are almost certain in video games, and far more immediate. The goals in real life might take years and never be reached (as the article points out). And perhaps you can make friends at work, or perhaps not. That depends on the type of work.

I agree.  The rewards are pretty much guaranteed too.  Not so working a job you might not like.  Games have become less and less difficult over the decades, and they always think of new ways to reward people.  It's hard to blame people when they choose this path.  It's very tempting.

For it goes back to the importance of mythical stories, and why they are timeless and why we love them.  Look at the books on that by Joseph Campbell that George Lucas referred to when writing Star Wars.  A typical heroes journey of a Luke Skywalker/Peter Parker/Frodo/Harry Potter is a humble everyman going on a grand adventure to accomplish some goal that will save the world or make it a better place is something we all strive to do.  At work we have dreams of creating some product or policy that will help people and make the world a better place, but that can take years if it happens at all, so yes video games and other kinds of fantasy media is much more immediate.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2018, 03:41:42 pm »
When I was in college, I did play computer games a bit. Maybe spent a couple of hours, 3-4 nights a week playing them. Of course they didn't cost anything to play, were all text based, and after you played for a few weeks you completed them and/or got bored. I did sink a couple of dollars worth of quarters into arcade games each week as well. Havn't really touched them since, except maybe to sit down with one of the kids for a few minutes on their game consoles.

Times have changed, and Fortnite appears to be raking in the dollars (for something that claims to be a free game).

    68.8% of Fortnite players have spent money on in-game purchases
    Amongst Fortnite spenders, the average amount of money they spent was $84.67
    For 36.78% of Fortnite spenders, this game is the first time they have made in-game purchases
    25.3% of Fortnite players pay for subscriptions on Twitch, a streaming service that enables them to subscribe to watch other people play Fortnite​

I really love the last one. I could barely stand watching my on kids play a game for a few minutes, and now you have people watching strangers play for hours. On in-game purchases they buy such things as clothes for their characters - now that is just downright mental.

ref: https://lendedu.com/blog/finances-of-fortnite/

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Offline TimG

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2018, 03:51:30 pm »
Quote from: ?Impact on December 16, 2018, 03:41:42 pm
I really love the last one. I could barely stand watching my on kids play a game for a few minutes, and now you have people watching strangers play for hours. On in-game purchases they buy such things as clothes for their characters - now that is just downright mental.
What exactly is the difference from people who watch professional sports?
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2018, 03:54:29 pm »
Quote from: TimG on December 16, 2018, 03:51:30 pm
What exactly is the difference from people who watch professional sports?

I don't really watch professional sports either. Attending a live game is one thing, but watching on television I find boring. I find baseball (fastball/hardball, that other stuff is dopey) relaxing to watch, and I really don't care if they are professional or the kids in the local park. Hockey is not bad to watch either. Soccer is great to play, but sucks to watch.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2018, 04:06:37 pm »
Quote from: ?Impact on December 16, 2018, 03:41:42 pm
Times have changed, and Fortnite appears to be raking in the dollars (for something that claims to be a free game).
Freemium has taken over the gaming industry as the best way to make money is to offer a game for free and sell add-ons. The most popular form seems to appeal to the gambling instinct where loot boxes are sold with a small chance of a big prize and some players buy them in bulk. I have played games where it is possible to calculate that the people on the leader boards must have spent over 1K buying these loot boxes over a few days. Like gambling, these types of games make their money from a minority of players who are probably spending way more than they can afford.
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guest7

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2018, 04:57:01 pm »
Quote from: TimG on December 16, 2018, 03:51:30 pm
What exactly is the difference from people who watch professional sports?

I suppose the limits are set by others?  Games end, stadiums empty, programmes on the tv change.  I think the issue would arise when someone has total control over their sensory input, with no external factors.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Staring at screens
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2018, 11:21:52 am »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on December 16, 2018, 03:21:50 pm
I agree.  The rewards are pretty much guaranteed too.  Not so working a job you might not like.  Games have become less and less difficult over the decades, and they always think of new ways to reward people.  It's hard to blame people when they choose this path.  It's very tempting.

I also wonder whether these guaranteed quick rewards are discouraging people who play a lot of video games from real life. For example, millennials aren't buying cars very much compared to previous generations. A lot has been written about this in terms of, they're using uber or whatever, but I think back to when I wanted a car. It's not immediate rewards. You have to save money over quite a long period, take courses over weeks or months of time, nag your family and others to let you get some driving practice in (all if it highly stressed in case you screw up) then take a series of tests, and then you have to try and get insurance, and try to find a car you can afford, and then insure THAT... it's just a lot of freaking work. Maybe I'll just relax and play video games, and if I need to go somewhere I'll bum a ride or scrape together the money for uber…

Getting jobs is even harder. I'll work at this crappyy job for six or eight months or a yea or eighteen monthsr, and then maybe I can get a promotion. Or maybe I can use this on my resume to get a slightly less crappy, slightly better paying job, and then do that for a couple of years, and then maybe take some courses, and maybe those will all be a springboard to a little bit of a better job at a little bit higher salary, and after some years I might get a decent job that pays well...

Geez, isn't there a political party that will pay me a guaranteed income so I can just play video games!?

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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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