Author Topic: Stacked Single Family Home  (Read 658 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2018, 09:25:58 pm »
Ok, then lets levy a quintuple property taxation on all new home buyers.

And then people stop buying new homes. And then the builders stop making them. And then the prices skyrocket on older homes, not to mention rental housing and now you're crying about all the poor people who are homeless or can't afford rent.

Why don't you just accept it is the city's job to ensure all areas within it are served with roads and plumbing and tax everyone equally? That used to work, btw.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2018, 09:16:37 am »
And then people stop buying new homes. And then the builders stop making them. And then the prices skyrocket on older homes, not to mention rental housing and now you're crying about all the poor people who are homeless or can't afford rent.

Why don't you just accept it is the city's job to ensure all areas within it are served with roads and plumbing and tax everyone equally? That used to work, btw.

I dunno about yours, but my property taxes are based on a property value assessment. And older more centralized areas typically have higher property values than new outlying subdivisions. So you get people in established subdivisions basically subsidizing the development of infrastructure in new subdivisions where people will be paying lower tax rates than they themselves.

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2018, 09:40:13 am »
I dunno about yours, but my property taxes are based on a property value assessment. And older more centralized areas typically have higher property values than new outlying subdivisions. So you get people in established subdivisions basically subsidizing the development of infrastructure in new subdivisions where people will be paying lower tax rates than they themselves.

 -k

Sure, you pay more based on the value of your property, but that doesn't necessarily mean the new subdivisions pay less tax. The closer in homes tend to be older, like my last 1950s place. I paid a lot more for my current new home than my last place was worth and I pay higher taxes here than I did there. The newer homes have all the bells and whistles, which cost. There are a few closer in neighborhoods that have high costs, but most are not any more costly in land value than the area I'm in now. My last place was 15 minutes from downtown and in a nice, crime free neighborhood of single family houses and sold for $365k. Which is below average in Ottawa. 
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2018, 11:46:20 am »
Ok, then lets levy a quintuple property taxation on all new home buyers. In my last house, our small town had a standpipe that served the population well and had many years of good life left in it. Along comes Joe home builder and puts in hundreds of new houses and suddenly we need a new water tower to have the capacity and pressure to reach those new houses. Why was I stuck subsidizing Joe home builder for something he benefited from and only cost me a fortune in increased property taxes?

So then...?  Are you advocating a libertarian system where everyone pays for their own sewer and sidewalks?

The property being developed already pays to hook into the existing services.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2018, 04:33:48 pm »
So then...?  Are you advocating a libertarian system where everyone pays for their own sewer and sidewalks?

The property being developed already pays to hook into the existing services.

The existing service needs to be upgraded, a hook into is only a very small fraction of the cost. I gave a real world example above about the water supply infrastructure that I ended up subsidizing developers for.

No, I am advocating that new developments cannot leach off of existing ones. They need to supply their complete infrastructure.

Offline wilber

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2018, 08:26:55 pm »
The existing service needs to be upgraded, a hook into is only a very small fraction of the cost. I gave a real world example above about the water supply infrastructure that I ended up subsidizing developers for.

No, I am advocating that new developments cannot leach off of existing ones. They need to supply their complete infrastructure.

Developers put in their own services. Communities can use permit fees to offset the cost of increased infrastructure.

If you want to take that stance, pay up because someone else subsidized you when you bought a home.

It's like people who say they shouldn't have to pay school taxes because they don't have kids. They can show me the receipts that show they paid for their own primary and secondary education and maybe then I will listen to them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2018, 03:49:04 pm »
Then lets just jack up everyone property taxes, and you right wing whiners are the ones that demanded it. An established community was built and running just fine, and then some greedy developer came along and doubled it size and the current residents are expected to put money in the pocket of that developer according to you right wing capitalist wealth accumulators. The developer is getting all the benefit from building in a well run community and you think they should have a free ride.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2018, 04:46:57 pm »
Then lets just jack up everyone property taxes, and you right wing whiners

The phrase you're looking for is "taxpayers"


Quote
An established community was built and running just fine, and then some greedy developer came along and doubled it size and the current residents are expected to put money in the pocket of that developer according to you right wing capitalist wealth accumulators. The developer is getting all the benefit from building in a well run community and you think they should have a free ride.

Most of you people on the left would slit your wrists rather than lower immigration numbers. Yet you seem to think we can take in 340,000 new people a year and not build houses. Hey, here's an idea, cut immigration and we won't need as many housing developments.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2018, 07:09:51 pm »
An established community was built and running just fine, and then ...

So once you arrive, it needs to stop growing?  How NIMBY of you....

Offline wilber

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2018, 11:13:53 pm »
Then lets just jack up everyone property taxes, and you right wing whiners are the ones that demanded it. An established community was built and running just fine, and then some greedy developer came along and doubled it size and the current residents are expected to put money in the pocket of that developer according to you right wing capitalist wealth accumulators. The developer is getting all the benefit from building in a well run community and you think they should have a free ride.

So build your own damn house and install your own services and infrastructure then. Or are you one of those Iím alright Jack, Iíve got mine so screw everyone else types?

Iíve owned my own home since the mid seventies and have no problem with new homeowners having the same access to services that I did when I bought my first home.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #85 on: May 19, 2018, 12:45:41 pm »
So once you arrive, it needs to stop growing?  How NIMBY of you....

I didn't say that or anything even closely resembling that. I said new development should pay its own way, and not be subsidized by existing residents. Like my community, you are welcome to join it, but no free ride. I am beginning to sound like a right wing redneck, but for some strange reason you right wing rednecks only use the freeloading argument when it doesn't apply to you.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #86 on: May 19, 2018, 12:51:00 pm »
So build your own damn house and install your own services and infrastructure then.

That is about it, you pay to extend the community. Do you understand the difference between join and extend? We have an established community that welcomes newcomers to replace those leaving - that is joining. If you want to build a larger community, then great, go ahead but make sure you don't get me to subsidize your growth.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #87 on: May 19, 2018, 01:06:03 pm »
That is about it, you pay to extend the community. Do you understand the difference between join and extend? We have an established community that welcomes newcomers to replace those leaving - that is joining. If you want to build a larger community, then great, go ahead but make sure you don't get me to subsidize your growth.

Why is it "your" growth and not "our" growth? As a matter of public policy we seem to have decided that "we" "need" to have growth, so I don't see why you feel that you're off the hook in this.

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #88 on: May 19, 2018, 01:30:09 pm »
Why is it "your" growth and not "our" growth? As a matter of public policy we seem to have decided that "we" "need" to have growth, so I don't see why you feel that you're off the hook in this.

Good question. First off I personally don't subscribe to the growth model, but yes I agree it seems to be the public policy foisted upon us by the power brokers. Second, we can have growth as a country by building new communities and not diluting existing communities. When we want to extend existing communities, that extension has to pay its own way. This is not the same as an existing community deciding they want to have more local services, say a theatre or arena, then the exiting members should pay for that. The community has built the infrastructure, and should benefit from it. That has nothing to do with personal mobility, you are welcome to join the community by buying a house from an existing family that has supported it and the house price will reflect that level of service.

Now we come to developers. They see two communities (different sides of the track so to speak). They decide to build in the one that has the better services, because they know they will be able to sell the house for a higher price. They are the ones that should be paying extend the community, not those who built it in the first place.

Offline wilber

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Re: Stacked Single Family Home
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2018, 02:40:03 pm »
That is about it, you pay to extend the community. Do you understand the difference between join and extend? We have an established community that welcomes newcomers to replace those leaving - that is joining. If you want to build a larger community, then great, go ahead but make sure you don't get me to subsidize your growth.

So who subsidized you? Even if you buy an existing home, someone else paid for your infrastructure improvements. Why should you get a free ride just because you bought an older home?  New homeowners pay taxes too, why do you think they should be second class taxpayers? Why do you think others should pay for a new highway, bridge, public transit, enhanced sewer and water treatment, medical facilities or any other improvements that result from growth in a community and you get to use?

Quote
Now we come to developers. They see two communities (different sides of the track so to speak). They decide to build in the one that has the better services, because they know they will be able to sell the house for a higher price. They are the ones that should be paying extend the community, not those who built it in the first place.

Local governments decide who gets to build and where, not developers.

I thought you were a socialist but I guess not.

What do you think society actually means?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 02:46:12 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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