Author Topic: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.  (Read 567 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Re: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2019, 10:58:16 pm »
A recap of the long, convoluted history of the dagger that killed the Night King:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/arts/television/arya-dagger-bran-night-king.html

It first appeared in the hands of the assassin who tried to kill Bran way back in Season 1 Episode 2, and then passed to Catelyn Stark, Ser Rodderick Cassel, Littlefinger, Ned Stark, then Littlefinger again, who eventually gave it to Bran as a gift.  Bran gave it to Arya, who later used it to kill Littlefinger, as well as the Night King.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2019, 11:39:36 pm »
That was so contrived. A real battle would have had the Dothraki do hit and fade flank attacks in the *daylight*. I suspect Melissandra's bit was to add to the drama so the defenders could watch the lights go out from the castle walls.

It might have been stupid from a tactical standpoint, but it was an amazing visual.   First, Melissandre shows up, and we get this brief moment of hope... seeing the fires light up in a wave along the front, and seeing how the defenders reacted to it, it seemed like they had a chance after all.

And then the second awesome visual was the Dothraki charge, with the flaming swords and the flaming trebuchet projectiles flying overhead like comets... it was almost as cool as the Riders of Rohan charging into the Battle of Pelennor Fields in Return Of The King. 

And the third incredible visual was the charge as seen from high up where Jon and Dany were watching.   The dots of flame rolling across the battlefield like a wave.

And then, chillingly... the wave stops, like an ocean wave breaking against a granite cliff, breaking up, dispersing.    I liked that this was left completely to the imagination...  we got the one brief visual of the riders meeting the Night King's hordes, but aside from that, it was all implied by the torches.  The torches stop in their tracks, and start disappearing, winking out like snuffed candles.   Terrifying to imagine what must have been happening out there in the darkness, but all we could see was the flames disappearing.

I think the beginning of the episode was brilliant film-making.  From the tension of the opening preparations and the unstated sense of doom conveyed, to the brief glimmer of hope provided by Melissandre's magic and the ferocity of the Dothraki, to the part where the flaming swords have vanished... this was all just stunning to watch. I think that might have been among the most brilliant 10-15 minutes I've ever seen on television.   Pure magic, in my opinion.

The rest of the episode wasn't quite as good. A lot of sound and fury, but it was hard to really get a sense of what was going on.   The scenes in the clouds were especially confusing. 

My "pick 5" dead pool idea turns out to have been terribly misguided. I'm assuming any characters we didn't see die are still alive, of course, but we only saw Theon and Jorah die (plus Lyanna Mormont...)    After several seasons of expecting this to be a cataclysmic event, I somehow expected more than 2 of the main characters to check out for good.   The armies of the living suffered thousands upon thousands of casualties... but amazingly, just two main characters.  It feels like the writers chickened out.


And a lot of people-- including Maisie Williams herself, apparently-- were wondering why it was Arya, and not Jon, who did the thing.  Like, why did Melissandre bother bringing Jon back at all?  Wasn't he supposed to be the guy she'd seen in her prophecy?  Of course she's been wrong about stuff before... she'd thought Stannis was the guy at first, so maybe her prophecy meter is a little broken.  Still, everything seemed to point at Jon being the guy.   But sometimes unexpected stuff happens on the way to the fireworks factory.

I also thought Bran's mystic tree spirit **** would play some kind of role in the conclusion.  Nope.  He just sits there like a lump and doesn't do jack ****.  I wonder what further role he can have from here on out? 


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Offline TimG

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Re: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2019, 01:20:33 am »
And a lot of people-- including Maisie Williams herself, apparently-- were wondering why it was Arya, and not Jon, who did the thing.  Like, why did Melissandre bother bringing Jon back at all?  Wasn't he supposed to be the guy she'd seen in her prophecy?  Of course she's been wrong about stuff before... she'd thought Stannis was the guy at first, so maybe her prophecy meter is a little broken.  Still, everything seemed to point at Jon being the guy. But sometimes unexpected stuff happens on the way to the fireworks factory.
Most prophesies in fantasies are written down in old books with cryptic wording open to multiple interpretations. In GoT the prophesy was in Melissandre's visions but there is no reason to believe it was anymore precise. You also can't assume the God of Death did not have a plan with redundancy built in. i.e. have multiple potentials but random chance determines which one actually fulfills the prophesy. I kind of like that interpretation because it disposes of the "chosen one" trope that drives so many fantasy stories.

Offline kimmy

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Re: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2019, 02:52:45 am »
Did Arya use a White Walkers face to get that close to the Knight King. In a show where you have to completely suspend reality, that's really hard to believe. But it was cool. Having the God of Death line reset to her must have been good motivation.

During that interior scene where she's tiptoeing around trying to avoid being seen and heard by the white walkers, I was wondering about that. I thought of Bill Murray (as  himself!) in Zombieland, explaining to the heroes how he gets around town by just putting on some makeup and shambling around.  How he has the golf course all to himself, because zombies don't golf, that sort of thing.  I was wondering how white walkers can tell the living from their own kind. They don't seem super smart.  They don't seem to sense life (because if they did, finding Arya in that room wouldn't have been hard.)   So is it just visual?  If so, then Arya's disguise skill would have been the perfect thing to get around.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: So uhh.. Game of Thrones comes back this week.
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2019, 03:03:05 am »
Most prophesies in fantasies are written down in old books with cryptic wording open to multiple interpretations. In GoT the prophesy was in Melissandre's visions but there is no reason to believe it was anymore precise. You also can't assume the God of Death did not have a plan with redundancy built in. i.e. have multiple potentials but random chance determines which one actually fulfills the prophesy. I kind of like that interpretation because it disposes of the "chosen one" trope that drives so many fantasy stories.

I do generally dislike the "chosen one" trope, so I'm not too broken up over Jon not being the one to end the Night King.  But it does kind of make some of the preceding story involving Jon and Melissandre kind of irrelevant.  Maybe the explanation is "She was just plain wrong... she thought Jon was the guy, so she had to bring him back. But she was wrong."   Then again the defense of Winterfell would have failed without Jon, because he was key in unifying the armies that fought the Night King, so bringing him back was a vital part of defeating the Night King even if he didn't deliver the final blow himself.  I'll have to see what the book nerds are saying about the prophecy and Arya delivering the final blow.

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Offline Boges

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I'd like to think the way these last episodes go down is that the rest of the 7 Kingdoms rise up against Cersei in the name of the sacrifices made at Winterfell.

Whatever happened to Dorne? Someone must have filled the void left by the Sandsnakes and can't be supportive of the current administration.

An apt strategy would be to force the Golden Company on the offensive. Apparently Moat Cailin has never been taken while manned. Even the sickly Iron Born were able to hold it against the Boltons until Theon/Reek convinced them they'd get safe habour.

The current North/Vale/Wildling/Unsullied/Dothraki? forces don't have the ability to march to King's Landing and take the city. Even with two Dragons.

When it comes to the North and Wildling fighting force, After the War of the 5 Kings, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and Battle of Winterfell they must resemble the Resistance after the Last Jedi.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Can we just stop and appreciate the fact that in one evening Arya seduced a man and lost her virginity, flashed underage sideboob to a global TV audience, and then killed the **** Night King while her fake brother uselessly flew around inside a blizzard chasing blonde **** for an hour on a dragon whose fire could have saved thousands of lives, while her other dickless fake brother died in 1.5 seconds vs the dude he was supposed to defend against, while her real brother (a useless weirdo cripple) did jack **** while looking at thousands of people die through the eyes of ravens, and her **** sister (leader of the north apparently) sat like a **** coward in a crypt while flirting with a midget.

At the end of the final episode Arya better be sitting on the Iron Throne buck naked with Jaime Lannister and 2 dragons eating her out while dragonglass dildos (fashioned by her stupid incest fake brother and blonde-**** sister-in-law) fall out of her ass while she walks.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Me thinks this story is not done with Bran and the Night King quite yet, not by a long shot.
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Offline kimmy

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I'd like to think the way these last episodes go down is that the rest of the 7 Kingdoms rise up against Cersei in the name of the sacrifices made at Winterfell.

Whatever happened to Dorne? Someone must have filled the void left by the Sandsnakes and can't be supportive of the current administration.

With Euron's navy controlling the sea, the only way from Dorne to the rest of Westeros is through mountain passes.  I would think Dorne must be pretty mad at the Lannister regime, though.   Others must be as well. 

The Reach has seen their entire royal family extincted by Cersei; I would think that whoever ends up taking over in Highgarden would have a grudge.  (is Samwell the highest-ranking noble left in the Reach, after Dany incinerated his dad and brother? Might he be the new lord of Highgarden?  If that's the case, he's not likely to go to bat for Dany as Queen, though he would support Jon as King.)

The Stormlands has also not been heard from for a long time. With all three Baratheon brothers dead, it's not clear who's in charge there either.  Gendry is a surviving offspring of Robert, though given that he's illegitimate it's not clear he'd have any ability to be lord of Storm's End, and he doesn't seem like he'd even want to.  But the Stormlands are a second region who would have a grudge against Cersei and military capacity that isn't as decimated as the North's.

We'd assume that the Vale's military suffered heavily in the fight against the Night King, so they're probably not much help. I assume the Vale is allied with Sansa and will support her whatever she chooses.

The Riverlands are yet another region that we're not sure where they're at. We don't know what has happened with the leadership there since Arya executed Walder Frey and his sons.  Last we saw Edmure Tully, he had basically bent the knee to Jaime Lannister after Jaime showed up to "speak with him".   At that time Jaime told the Freys that they weren't any good to him if he had to keep showing up to enforce on their behalf.  And obviously the Lannisters have not been in position to enforce control of the Riverlands for a while now.  The Tully family would also be aligned with Sansa, if they're back in charge of the Riverlands.   The Twins is also a vital strategic location, and "unassailable", in the estimation of Roose Bolton.


An apt strategy would be to force the Golden Company on the offensive. Apparently Moat Cailin has never been taken while manned. Even the sickly Iron Born were able to hold it against the Boltons until Theon/Reek convinced them they'd get safe habour.

The current North/Vale/Wildling/Unsullied/Dothraki? forces don't have the ability to march to King's Landing and take the city. Even with two Dragons.

When it comes to the North and Wildling fighting force, After the War of the 5 Kings, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and Battle of Winterfell they must resemble the Resistance after the Last Jedi.

Yes, the North must be completely tapped out at this point.  (I will laugh if they start this episode by tallying up what's left after the devastation of last episode and Dany tells us that she still has several thousand of Dothraki and Unsullied and Jon tells us that he has thousands more Northmen and Wildlings.)

It would certainly make most sense for the North to simply play defense.  Cersei's army is mercenaries, and mercenaries want to get paid. They aren't a long term answer and they aren't patient; one would think Cersei would have a sense of urgency to crush her enemies ASAP.  Everybody else, you'd think, would be content to try and rebuild while they wait for Cersei to run out of money. 

Or Arya could just go south and assassinate Cersei.  Melissandre's prophecy mentioned Arya shutting "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes."  Blue eyes was obviously a reference to the Night King and brown eyes could be just about anybody including the Frey family.  If I recall correctly, the book talks about Cersei having green eyes.  So that could happen.


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Offline kimmy

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Cool interactive map of Westeros!

http://quartermaester.info/

If you position your mouse pointer carefully the place markers become clickable links that will take you to a Wiki page for that location, like this page for the Tully castle, Riverrun.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Riverrun


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Offline kimmy

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The Reach has seen their entire royal family extincted by Cersei; I would think that whoever ends up taking over in Highgarden would have a grudge.  (is Samwell the highest-ranking noble left in the Reach, after Dany incinerated his dad and brother? Might he be the new lord of Highgarden?  If that's the case, he's not likely to go to bat for Dany as Queen, though he would support Jon as King.)

Or Lord Bronn, apparently.

The Stormlands has also not been heard from for a long time. With all three Baratheon brothers dead, it's not clear who's in charge there either.  Gendry is a surviving offspring of Robert, though given that he's illegitimate it's not clear he'd have any ability to be lord of Storm's End, and he doesn't seem like he'd even want to.  But the Stormlands are a second region who would have a grudge against Cersei and military capacity that isn't as decimated as the North's.

I guess you didn't have to be the Amazing Kreskin to see this one coming.

Yes, the North must be completely tapped out at this point.  (I will laugh if they start this episode by tallying up what's left after the devastation of last episode and Dany tells us that she still has several thousand of Dothraki and Unsullied and Jon tells us that he has thousands more Northmen and Wildlings.)

Yes, I almost spit out my beer when Grey Worm says "Half are gone."    Half?  Last episode we were down to a tattered handful of defenders, and now half of the Unsullied are still alive?   And somehow after the horrific carnage of last episode they'd have us believe that Jon and Dany's battered army is still an even fight against Cersei's forces.  They did this really well in season 5 when we saw the effects of attrition on Stannis Baratheon's forces as he marched towards Winterfell.  All that is completely out the window at this point.

It would certainly make most sense for the North to simply play defense.  Cersei's army is mercenaries, and mercenaries want to get paid. They aren't a long term answer and they aren't patient; one would think Cersei would have a sense of urgency to crush her enemies ASAP.  Everybody else, you'd think, would be content to try and rebuild while they wait for Cersei to run out of money. 

...so of course they do the exact opposite!


Yet again Euron Greyjoy's ninja ships appear out of nowhere and save the day for Cersei. It borders on ridiculous at this point.  Dany is high in the air scouting, yet somehow can't see giant **** warships from miles away on a clear day.


Or Arya could just go south and assassinate Cersei.  Melissandre's prophecy mentioned Arya shutting "brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes."  Blue eyes was obviously a reference to the Night King and brown eyes could be just about anybody including the Frey family.  If I recall correctly, the book talks about Cersei having green eyes.  So that could happen. 

Arya and Sandor are road trip buddies again! Squeee!  They're going south! They've got unfinished business! Squeee!


 -k
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Offline Goddess

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Did you see the Starbuck's cup in that episode?  :D
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Offline Boges

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Sansa is the only smart person on this show. You're going to have the entire North army travel the Kings Road to King's Landing. Regardless of the show's teleportation ability that's still something Rob Stark couldn't do. Don't the Lannister's control the Twins now? The Lannisters aren't taking the North anytime soon, they should pause and replenish their forces and craft an intelligent plan. Instead they fly right into a trap.

Also King's Landing now has a SAM defence system now, so the one dragon they have left is useless AF.

The show is purely fan fiction and spectacle now. Brienne and Jamie finally get to bone. We get Arya and Hound 2 Electric Bugaboo. This is certainly foreshadowing Clegane Bowl. They also forshadow the Valonqar Prophesy (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Valonqar/Theories) with Jamie leaving Brienne's warm bed back into the arms of Cersie. They banish Ghost to North of the Wall with Tormond so we don't have to have another CGI doggie die.

Don't get me wrong. It's enjoyable TV. But the appeal of the earlier season is that it at least tried to be as realistic as a Fanstasy Show/Book Series could be. Now it's anything goes, lets race to the finish line.

Oh and killing the few people of colour they have, while in chains, is racist. . . apparently. https://meaww.com/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-4-shocking-missandei-racist-death-cersei-kings-landing-daenerys



 

Offline TimG

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The Lannisters aren't taking the North anytime soon, they should pause and replenish their forces and craft an intelligent plan. Instead they fly right into a trap.
The bone-headed military tactics are  getting ridiculous. Sending their Calvary into a frontal assault in the dark; having infantry deployed *in front* of the trenches and barricades; dragon riders that can't see ships before they are in firing range. We have incompetence on a grand scale.

Offline Boges

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The theory is that it's Rubber Band AI to make the battle more even.

https://www.giantbomb.com/rubber-band-ai/3015-35/
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