Author Topic: So are universities just not getting the job done any more?  (Read 593 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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So are universities just not getting the job done any more?
« on: November 28, 2018, 09:07:55 pm »
A large scale study shows a quarter of the graduating post-secondary students in Ontario have inferior literacy and numeracy skills, while 45% achieved 'minimum passes'.
Students aren't being taught proper skills in literacy, in being able to read, and comprehend data, or in analytical skills.

On literacy and numeracy, the study found that the largest number of students – about 45 per cent – received a score of three out of a possible five, which HEQCO called “the minimum required for graduates to perform well in today’s work world.” About 25 per cent scored below that level, and a little less than 30 per cent scored at a level of four out of five, considered superior.

The test was not measuring whether students can read or do arithmetic, but whether they can take written or numerical information and use it to solve problems.

“Is it okay that one in four students from Ontario’s s post-secondary system has below adequate literacy and numeracy? That number should be zero,” Dr. Weingarten said.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-one-in-four-ontario-university-students-lack-basic-literacy-numeracy/
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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It starts before they get to university I think.  You should be able to write an adequate essay before you hit first year uni.

I think at the university level not as much is demanded of students as decades past.  There's still some older **** profs out there, pretty rare, that still demand a lot.

I'm not good at math & didn't persue it far so can't comment on that end.  I wonder how they did the test.  Did they test the students on BOTH math and literary skills, because usually uni students will be good at one or the other depending on their program.  The science/math people usually suck at essays & vice versa.
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Online Michael Hardner

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Post Secondary includes colleges I think, which includes George Brown Cooking School, Humber's Stand-Up Comedy Program etc.

I also wonder how they did the test but I will say this: University is oversold and primarily sold as a key to middle-class income.  My friend's kid was an awesome coder and a great artist.  He went to work after high school, no problem.

Offline TimG

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When university was something only a small number of people did it was possible to have higher standards because people who could not meet them had other options. Today university is seen as a necessity which puts pressure on admins to reduce standards to ensure everyone can get their degree. Ironically this undermines the value of the degrees so people end up spending thousands on a piece of paper that is a necessary but not sufficient requirement for a job.


Offline SirJohn

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Well if you read the comments on that article a lot of recent grads complain about the number of foreign students, and how difficult it is when assigned to work with them. Many of them speak very poor English, yet are accepted into universities on the basis of, well, they pay a lot. This is bound to lower the overall caliber of teaching and learning. There are something like 150,000 foreign students in Canadian post-secondary institutions.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Lots of Canadians are studying abroad as well. Top destination countries are France, UK, and USA; which represents about one third of the total. The number of international students in Canada is about 3 times the number of Canadians studying abroad. Canada is the #4 destination country for foreign students - well done Canadian post secondary institutes.

Offline SirJohn

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Lots of Canadians are studying abroad as well. Top destination countries are France, UK, and USA; which represents about one third of the total. The number of international students in Canada is about 3 times the number of Canadians studying abroad. Canada is the #4 destination country for foreign students - well done Canadian post secondary institutes.

The purpose of post-secondary education is to educate CANADIANS, not foreigners. if admitting large numbers of foreigners with poor language skills is damaging the education of Canadians then the foreigners should be excluded.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Omni

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The purpose of post-secondary education is to educate CANADIANS, not foreigners. if admitting large numbers of foreigners with poor language skills is damaging the education of Canadians then the foreigners should be excluded.

Except that foreign post secondary students do as well or better than their Canadian classmates, and they spend a lot of money in the process.
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Offline SirJohn

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Except that foreign post secondary students do as well or better than their Canadian classmates, and they spend a lot of money in the process.

I don't care how foreign students do. I care about whether they're making it harder for Canadians.
The stories of people in that cite, though they're just individual statements, suggest the level of cheating among them is high, and that administrations are 'encouraging' teachers to just let them through. I don't much like that either.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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I don't care how foreign students do. I care about whether they're making it harder for Canadians.
The stories of people in that cite, though they're just individual statements, suggest the level of cheating among them is high, and that administrations are 'encouraging' teachers to just let them through. I don't much like that either.

You don't care how they do? Why would you say that? Is it because they make it hard for Canadians because they simply do well? They pay for their education here while we pay for a good portion of our own people's, which I totally agree with. Many of those foreign students, especially Asians go to work and pay taxes after they graduate. I thinkyour continued fear of them damn fureners is clouding your view, as usual.

Offline SirJohn

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You don't care how they do? Why would you say that?

Because I don't give a damn about foreigners. The purpose of the Canadian education system is to educate Canadians. If the education of foreigners does not detract from that, then I'm fine with it. If it does, then I'm not.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Because I don't give a damn about foreigners. The purpose of the Canadian education system is to educate Canadians. If the education of foreigners does not detract from that, then I'm fine with it. If it does, then I'm not.

Foreigners add a LOT of money to the education system. And then many go on to work here and pay a LOT of taxes, and for a long time because they are young. I was in a TD bank in Richmond lately. Most of the tellers were Oriental, all spoke perfect English, knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't think many were much over 30 years old. Would such an environment frighten you? 
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Online Michael Hardner

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University Students from other countries, besides paying much money to study here, become high income and highly productive innovators when they get to stay.  Those I meet from other countries that study here are all high achievers.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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University Students from other countries, besides paying much money to study here, become high income and highly productive innovators when they get to stay.  Those I meet from other countries that study here are all high achievers.

Exactly the type of immigrant Sir John claims to like.....     except...  he doesn’t like then either.
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Offline SirJohn

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Foreigners add a LOT of money to the education system. And then many go on to work here and pay a LOT of taxes, and for a long time because they are young. I was in a TD bank in Richmond lately. Most of the tellers were Oriental, all spoke perfect English, knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't think many were much over 30 years old. Would such an environment frighten you?

We're not talking about immigration. Are you guys just so fixated on immigration you can't stick to the subject under discussion?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum