Author Topic: Sex Culture  (Read 1348 times)

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Online Goddess

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2017, 12:01:13 pm »
How did you know?  Was it intuition, or were there concrete things that you saw in her that told you?  This is interesting to me.


I think a lot of it was intuition.  She was just always "different".  Not in a bad way.  She always detested anything "girly".  Hated dresses, dressing up, loved all kinds of sports, very active.  I'm a girly-girl, so I recognized at the age of 2 or 3 that she was not and immediately gave up my dreams of dressing up my little girl in dresses and hairstyles.  We found other ways to connect as she grew up.  I took more of an interest in her interests and we found things we enjoyed doing together. 


Because of the religion, I knew at some point I would have to make a decision - shunning is required if your child leaves the religion or is gay.  I knew I wasn't going to give up my child - she is perfect in every way, loving, sociable, accepting, compassionate and generous.  So I made sure we had a good relationship before we left the religion and that she knew without a doubt, I wasn't going to abandon her.

She says she is actually Bi, but she hasn't had a boyfriend since her teens.  She prefers women.  She came out to me when she was 15, but only just came out to her dad last year (she's 23 now.)  He basically pretends she isn't gay, on the rare occasions when she sees him (He's still in the religion).  He calls her grilfreind her "freind" and she corrects him - "Dad, she's my GIRLFRIEND."
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2017, 10:41:41 pm »
I suppose it's only as awful as saying you would prefer it if they didn't.

There are many advantages to heterosexual relationships, such as social acceptance, more romantic options and easier procreation so I don't think it's 'awful' if some parents would 'prefer' it.

What WOULD be awful is not accepting it or somewhere in the back of your mind hoping it's just a phase and wishing for the day they may end up changing their mind. 

If my daughters turns out straight I would never hope they'll change their minds or be unaccepting so I don't think having a preference in itself is a bad thing.

Just as there are advantages to to opposite sex relationships, there are advantages I think for same-sex ones.  There is a great level of understanding which I find lacking in many heterosexual relationships.     

By the time my kids are grown, I imagine most of advantages I said above for heterosexuals are less of a factor, so my personal preference for their own sake is to find a harmonious relationship and strictly speaking from a personal perspective, I think same-sex relationships make more sense than opposite.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2017, 10:18:35 am »
There are many advantages to heterosexual relationships, such as social acceptance, more romantic options and easier procreation so I don't think it's 'awful' if some parents would 'prefer' it.

What WOULD be awful is not accepting it or somewhere in the back of your mind hoping it's just a phase and wishing for the day they may end up changing their mind. 

If my daughters turns out straight I would never hope they'll change their minds or be unaccepting so I don't think having a preference in itself is a bad thing.

Just as there are advantages to to opposite sex relationships, there are advantages I think for same-sex ones.  There is a great level of understanding which I find lacking in many heterosexual relationships.     

By the time my kids are grown, I imagine most of advantages I said above for heterosexuals are less of a factor, so my personal preference for their own sake is to find a harmonious relationship and strictly speaking from a personal perspective, I think same-sex relationships make more sense than opposite.

They make more sense from pretty much any perspective other than procreation, and that's the last thing we need right now.
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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2017, 10:50:15 am »
They make more sense from pretty much any perspective other than procreation, and that's the last thing we need right now.

Only whites need more procreation as I've heard we're on the endangered species list.   :o

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2017, 11:00:16 am »
I sometimes go hours without seeing another white person. It's insane. Where did they all go? I mean, I know the 2011 census showed that 3/16 of the population is a visible minority (that is ALL visible minorities), but holy hell, man. White people are practically on the verge of extinction.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2017, 11:43:40 am »
This is going to sound awful and anti-man, but whatever...

I think I would actually prefer it if either of my daughters turned out gay.

When I told someone I used to exchange email with that I was gay, he half-jokingly asked if I had any tips on getting his 20 year old daughter to start dating girls instead of guys. He was distressed by the quality of guys his daughter was meeting. While I'm sure that every dad thinks his little girl is too good for the dimwits she's dating, I felt about the same when I was that age... the guys my age seemed to have nothing going on at all. When I did find a man I wanted to be with, he was 12 years older than me.

Also, I find the idea of raising kids today to be really scary and I'm kind of glad I don't have to do it. You're much braver than me.   There are so many worrying stories about all kinds of negative things happening in schools. Drugs, bullying, sexual violence, pressure to participate in all kinds of weird social trends, and the hypersexulaization of everything...  if your daughters were gay, an unplanned pregnancy would be at least one less thing to worry about...

I suppose it's only as awful as saying you would prefer it if they didn't.

Which isn't awful, in my opinion.  I think every parent has hopes and dreams for their children, and I'm sure that for many of them those hopes and dreams include finding a wonderful spouse and having a wonderful traditional family and wonderful grandchildren, and I don't see anything wrong with having that dream.

There are many advantages to heterosexual relationships, such as social acceptance, more romantic options and easier procreation so I don't think it's 'awful' if some parents would 'prefer' it.

What WOULD be awful is not accepting it or somewhere in the back of your mind hoping it's just a phase and wishing for the day they may end up changing their mind. 

Indeed!


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Offline kimmy

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2017, 12:12:43 pm »
I think a lot of it was intuition.  She was just always "different".  Not in a bad way.  She always detested anything "girly".  Hated dresses, dressing up, loved all kinds of sports, very active.  I'm a girly-girl, so I recognized at the age of 2 or 3 that she was not and immediately gave up my dreams of dressing up my little girl in dresses and hairstyles.  We found other ways to connect as she grew up.  I took more of an interest in her interests and we found things we enjoyed doing together. 

I have wondered about why it seems like lesbians are drawn to sports. Like, of something like 30-40 female fighters in UFC, at least 6 of them are openly gay, which is a lot compared to the population at large. I think it's similar in basketball and soccer.  I was very into sports, and there wasn't any kind of conscious decision to disavow girly things... it just somehow happened, and long before I had any conscious idea of sexual orientation or gender identity.




Because of the religion, I knew at some point I would have to make a decision - shunning is required if your child leaves the religion or is gay.  I knew I wasn't going to give up my child - she is perfect in every way, loving, sociable, accepting, compassionate and generous.  So I made sure we had a good relationship before we left the religion and that she knew without a doubt, I wasn't going to abandon her.

This is so wonderful!  :-*  If I recall you were with the JWs before, right?  Was it your daughter that made you decide to leave? Or were you thinking about it before?  Was it hard to leave?

She says she is actually Bi, but she hasn't had a boyfriend since her teens.  She prefers women.  She came out to me when she was 15, but only just came out to her dad last year (she's 23 now.)  He basically pretends she isn't gay, on the rare occasions when she sees him (He's still in the religion).  He calls her grilfreind her "freind" and she corrects him - "Dad, she's my GIRLFRIEND."

Give it time... he might get used to it.

 -k

Offline MH

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2017, 06:52:13 am »
I have wondered about why it seems like lesbians are drawn to sports. Like, of something like 30-40 female fighters in UFC, at least 6 of them are openly gay, which is a lot compared to the population at large. I think it's similar in basketball and soccer.  I was very into sports, and there wasn't any kind of conscious decision to disavow girly things... it just somehow happened, and long before I had any conscious idea of sexual orientation or gender identity.

The implicit logic here is that there are gender preferences.  That's not to say that people shouldn't have choice but that people do choose certain things based on gender.  Why or how isn't clear to me, but as long as people have a choice to pursue whatever they like I don't think we worry if we don't have 50%-50% participation in all activities.

Online Goddess

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2017, 09:53:22 am »


This is so wonderful!  :-*  If I recall you were with the JWs before, right?  Was it your daughter that made you decide to leave? Or were you thinking about it before?  Was it hard to leave?

Give it time... he might get used to it.

 -k

I had been having doubts about a lot of things in the religion for a long time.  But I was 3rd generation JW, you can't just leave.  Unless you accept that you will lose all your family and freinds when you leave.

My son decided when he was 18 he didn't want to attend the religion any more.  And I knew my daughter was gay, so giving up both my children was just not an option for me.  The marriage was bad, too.  Very patriarchal, very controlling.  I planned leaving for quite a few years.  I needed to set up a bit of a support group for myself, luckily I had my best freind, who had gotten the boot from the religion a few years prior to me leaving.  It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but worth it. 

Her dad will never get used to her being gay - he's would not be allowed to.  He speaks to her occasionally, but even that is generally on Saturday morning, when he knocks on her door and offers her the magazines.
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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2017, 02:42:51 pm »
Were your kids never baptized?

Online Goddess

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2017, 03:28:49 pm »
Were your kids never baptized?

My son was, when he was 16.  When he left at 18, we just let him go and asked the elders to leave him alone.  So he's never been DF'ed.  My daughter never got baptised.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 11:47:23 pm »
I had been having doubts about a lot of things in the religion for a long time.  But I was 3rd generation JW, you can't just leave.  Unless you accept that you will lose all your family and freinds when you leave.

My son decided when he was 18 he didn't want to attend the religion any more.  And I knew my daughter was gay, so giving up both my children was just not an option for me.  The marriage was bad, too.  Very patriarchal, very controlling.  I planned leaving for quite a few years.  I needed to set up a bit of a support group for myself, luckily I had my best freind, who had gotten the boot from the religion a few years prior to me leaving.  It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but worth it.

That's wonderful! You're so brave.  Your kids are lucky to have a mom like you!

Her dad will never get used to her being gay - he's would not be allowed to.  He speaks to her occasionally, but even that is generally on Saturday morning, when he knocks on her door and offers her the magazines.

I can't comprehend that some people would put their magic book above their own flesh and blood. :(


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Offline MH

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2017, 06:34:36 am »
More on erotica/pornography:

Someone pointed out stats regarding women's responses to it, saying that men are more attracted and women less so.  Is there a difference for Lesbians/Gay Men ?  Do women generally like this stuff or not ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/straight-women-lesbian-porn_n_7689072

"women were 445 percent more likely than men to search for “girl on girl.”

Are those straight women ??

I discussed the topic with only 3 of my girlfriends/significant others.  I didn't bring it up with any of my girlfriends, but with those three they brought it into the conversation.

- One had zero interest
- One was into it and would watch it with me, which was like discovering gold at the time
- One was an 80s feminist and couldn't get past 'objectification' in it

-- -- --

My problem with 'objectification' is that the term is ambiguous: it describes depiction of people, but also implicitly describes the effect on the observer.  So you can't portray people as 'sex objects', presumably, because the watcher can't discern between fantasy and reality. 

Also, a lot of the language was about patriarchal elevation of the 'perfect woman' ie. the it-girl, the playboy bunny.  I didn't see the logic in that argument.  If I like chubby chicks (I do) then do I get a 'pass' ?  It also seemed to reveal a lack of understanding as to how men think about sexuality.  The criticism, at the time, was that the 'it girls' were skinny models with unattainable body types.  But the ONLY men I ever knew who found those people attractive were gay men, who followed the fashion industry.  So the discussion was unfolding on an entirely irrelevant landscape.  In.  My.  Opinion.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 11:53:40 am »
Also, a lot of the language was about patriarchal elevation of the 'perfect woman' ie. the it-girl, the playboy bunny.  I didn't see the logic in that argument.  If I like chubby chicks (I do) then do I get a 'pass' ?  It also seemed to reveal a lack of understanding as to how men think about sexuality.  The criticism, at the time, was that the 'it girls' were skinny models with unattainable body types.  But the ONLY men I ever knew who found those people attractive were gay men, who followed the fashion industry.  So the discussion was unfolding on an entirely irrelevant landscape.  In.  My.  Opinion.

I've grappled with issue of objectification and what it means and I've evolved quite a bit since I was younger. 

To answer your question above, no, I don't think being a chubby chaser gives a man a pass if the woman's beauty is all the man values in her (not you, I mean other men who can't seem to relate to women on a human/friend level and only see us as the other, here to have babies and do our own thing).

I first came across feminism in university and I was capitalizing on my youth and I didn't see a problem with it.  I used to shake it off if my humanity was lost as long as I gained something but as I've gotten older I have come to really dislike it when I am not seen as an equal.  It has nothing to do with attraction either, for example, one of the reasons I love my husband so much is that he seems to have that exact balance of finding me physically desirable but respecting me as a human being and appreciating me for my intellect. 

So I guess speaking just for myself, objectification is when a man does not have the ability to see women as anything as 'the other', someone to have sex with and make babies with without having a deeper appreciation for her as a person.  Unfortunately, that is still an issue in our society and although it goes both ways, I personally it happens a lot less on the flip side.

Of course this way of thinking causes conflict when it comes to **** where the woman doesn't really even have a personality.  I personally don't like any kind of **** where women are degraded.  On a logical level I know that some of the women are willing participants and even enjoy the degradation, but it saddens me that we live in a world where that type of sex turns on so many men.  It's not far from **** culture as far as I'm concerned.

On a personal level, becoming a mother to a daughter has changed my views a bit on **** because sometimes all I see when viewing **** is someone's daughter.  I don't have an issue with sex-trade but **** is forever and when I see young women in it who still aren't aware of the lifelong repercussions of their decisions, I view it a bit differently than I did when I was younger and all I saw a woman enjoying herself.   

More on this, there is an interesting documentary (called After ****) where women discuss the trials facing them as they go on to have families and children and they are being recognized in their kid's school and can't escape their past.  It's a bit different than having worked in private in the sex trade.

I guess for me what it comes down to is I respect the right of others to do as they want even though I don't enjoy watching degrading ****, and I prefer not to see very young women because I view them from a motherly perspective and I worry about their future.  ;) 

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Sex Culture
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2017, 12:59:15 pm »
The thing with ****, prostitution, stripping, and all other sex-trade-related things is that there's different reasons for going into it. Some women are very happy and content to sell sex. They enjoy it even. So if it's their choice and they enjoy what they're doing, then it's an issue of empowerment. There's others who don't enjoy it, who get into it out of desperation, and who run into disgusting con artists who are more than happy to take advantage of them. That's a very serious problem and it's the opposite of empowering the woman. There's a world of difference between professional pornography studios and "revenge" sites that encourage people to upload videos of their partners without their consent.  There's a world of difference between a company that gives the actors the autonomy to say "no" without any negative consequences or coercion and the ones that mislead, fool, or coerce people to do things that they don't want to do.

So it's tough to talk about "pornography" as a single thing and say whether it's objectification or not. It's both. It objectifies and it empowers. Even prostitutes have social stratification from the high class VIP call girls down to the "crack whores" in the slums. It's tough to point to prostitution as one thing, when there's no one thing called prostitution.

Hugh Hefner died and we're talking about his empire. It's tough to say that celebrities who have a ton of money then go and do full spreads in Playboy are being objectified, when they themselves say they were empowered by doing it. That's quite a different situation from hackers getting pics of Jennifer Lawrence and posting them all over the internet without her consent. That's abuse, even though we're ultimately talking about the same thing: the distribution of **** photos.