Author Topic: Thread Drift  (Read 6943 times)

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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #60 on: July 18, 2017, 01:58:03 pm »
1. that's rich! Concerned MLW posters simply wanted a precise definition of trolling defined...
2. and properly and CONSISTENTLY enforced.
3. Instead, that azzholeChas played word/mind games in purposely refusing to properly define the MLW Board's definition of trolling... and would purposely inflame a concerned and expressed membership by refusing to enforce the trolling offenses of the most egregious trolling offenders. I'm quite sure the ChasMan relished the forced drama he created - it's always good for ratings - up to the point contributing membership walks given all the forced MLWModeratingDrama.
1. That was provided, I believe.
2. Not possible, given that humans must enforce the rules and humans can't agree on things 100%.
3. Very unkind to insult and throw under the bus someone who endured you and catered to you for many years. 

MLW will endure...

Offline waldo

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2017, 12:39:07 am »
1. That was provided, I believe.
2. Not possible, given that humans must enforce the rules and humans can't agree on things 100%.
3. Very unkind to insult and throw under the bus someone who endured you and catered to you for many years. 

MLW will endure...

you sir, you believe... in make believe! Any precise and prevailing definition on MLW trolling should be in the board rules for reference. Instead MLW membership was forever toyed with by ChasMan and his simpleton play that trolling was a subjective interpretation --- his undeclared subjective whim and his mystery determination. Of course, you were, and I expect still are, a most willing and loyal lapper; one who never had the balls to actually question/challenge his bullshyte.

thanks for the outright genuine laugh - to suggest the ChasMan "catered to and endured" me... that sir, that showcases your true sycophantic self! For you to suggest, "MLW will endure", is you completely dismissing the membership loss and the quality of those long-standing contributing members who ChasMan drove away. It's quite heartening to read thread comments here, including your own, describing the present MLW membership makeup and decline. Well done - mission accomplished, hey!

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2017, 06:36:02 am »
you sir, you believe... in make believe! Any precise and prevailing definition on MLW trolling should be in the board rules for reference.

It took 5 seconds to find it:
" We define "trolling" as a message that serves no constructive purpose and is likely to cause offence or arguments. "

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Instead MLW membership was forever toyed with by ChasMan and his simpleton play that trolling was a subjective interpretation --- his undeclared subjective whim and his mystery determination.

Of course it's subjective.

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Of course, you were, and I expect still are, a most willing and loyal lapper; one who never had the balls to actually question/challenge his bullshyte.

Discussion of the application of policies most definitely happens between the moderators.  Why would you think otherwise ?

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thanks for the outright genuine laugh - to suggest the ChasMan "catered to and endured" me... that sir, that showcases your true sycophantic self!

You have always been an overly demanding poster, IMO.  That said, your presence was appreciated by all of us which is why we put the extra effort into dealing with you.  And, as expected, you are still unsatisfied.  It's a testimonial to your strong personality and character, and as such I accept it.

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For you to suggest, "MLW will endure", is you completely dismissing the membership loss and the quality of those long-standing contributing members who ChasMan drove away.

I don't see how.  We lost a lot of good posters, and the team was never happy when that happened.  But as I said, the site continues.

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It's quite heartening to read thread comments here, including your own, describing the present MLW membership makeup and decline. Well done - mission accomplished, hey!

Hey - it may be a cycle.  It may reflect the politics of our day.  I personally don't like the 3 prevailing themes that dominate, especially the mud puddle "I hate Muslims" arguments, but there isn't a rule that sends kooks away without reason.  It's a big tent that welcomes anyone who has something to add.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2017, 08:12:11 am »
I think it's overstating it if you think you weren't "welcome".  Clearly, everybody is "welcome".
Clearly.

I'm glad you put welcome in quotes to show irony.

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2017, 08:39:24 am »
Clearly.

I'm glad you put welcome in quotes to show irony.

Hahahaha.  Well, I will say something that is likely controversial, now, which I haven't said before and comes with experience including recent experience.

You can have an open board, or a good board.  You can also have both but whenever a decision comes between two guiding principles you have to pick one over the other.  I would pick a 'good' board and as such I would discourage topics that are not interesting to me.

What that means, specifically, doesn't matter.  I realize that it makes me a censor, or whatever, but if it were up to me conspiracy theories and the like would be gone.  Yes, I am evil, but my experience tells me that **** thinking perpetuates itself and makes for a repository for garbage.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2017, 10:26:09 am »
MH, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this issue with everyone here.  You really don't need to.

I think the issue I'm hearing often isn't about good board vs. open board though.  It's about consistency in moderation, and also style.  When you're not consistent in enforcing the rules, it does feel personal. 

And I know it gets difficult dealing with our complaints all the time, but nobody is forcing you to be moderators.   

It's like working in a call-centre, sure it sucks, but no matter how kooky the person is being at the other end of the line, you still need to keep it cool you can't start yelling back at the person.  Otherwise you're in the wrong position for the task.

And I'm not using 'you' as in you personally.  I mean you as in the moderation team. 

There is just no justification for talking down to posters no matter how crazy they are and a little consistency would help a long way in making sure things aren't taken personally.


Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2017, 10:47:04 am »
I don't take it personally, nor do I take responsibility for the decisions or demeanour of others.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2017, 02:05:41 pm »
I'm astonished at how much a certain conspiracy theorist gets away with over there.
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2017, 02:52:33 pm »
In terms of insults ?  I didn't think HE was that bad.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #69 on: July 19, 2017, 03:01:58 pm »
Hmmm....I guess to each his own.
It just seems like no matter what the topic of the thread is, he busts in with nothing substantive to say except how we're all dishonest, war-mongerers, baby killing, idiots who refuse to accept his vastly superior intellect.
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2017, 03:13:33 pm »
...he busts in with nothing substantive to say except how we're all dishonest, war-mongerers, baby killing, idiots who refuse to accept his vastly superior intellect.

Actually he said that the poster supports someone who does these things.  That mitigates the insult in two ways:

-it talks about the person's posts and opinions, not about the poster
-it's a substantive argument about American policies, on a certain level

I guarantee you it's an edge case.  It is designed to inflame, but we also hear "you support your Sharia brothers" etc.  Don't know if I would moderate it.

Same ****.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2017, 03:38:15 pm »
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Same ****.

Sometimes true.
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Offline waldo

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2017, 12:55:29 am »
It took 5 seconds to find it:
" We define "trolling" as a message that serves no constructive purpose and is likely to cause offence or arguments. "

oh snap! You got me... uhhh... wait now - that useless piece of nothingness was used many times over as a challenging start point for ChasMan to elaborate upon, particularly in terms of his related determining criteria, his subjective whim, his lack of consistency in applying interpretation and enforcement, his banal and tripe instruction to "just report and ignore", etc..

Of course it's subjective.

cop out extraordinaire! That ole tried-n-true, fall-back nugget simply allowed ChasMan and his crew to avoid accountability and responsibility for the shyte-house MLW moderation. Membership attempts to understand MLW moderation... to hold the moderators to some semblance of actual interpretation/enforcement practice... to wrestle with the inconsistency of application... that... that became the foundation of the MLW moderation drama that ChasMan so relished.

Discussion of the application of policies most definitely happens between the moderators.  Why would you think otherwise ?

because nothing ever changed. Rather - it only ever got worse. You seem like quite the lil' chatter-box here... certainly begs the question why you sought to become miniChasMan while giving up your posting. Clearly you accomplished didly squat in your presumed/postured policy application discussions - ChasManRules, don't ya know.

You have always been an overly demanding poster, IMO.  That said, your presence was appreciated by all of us which is why we put the extra effort into dealing with you.  And, as expected, you are still unsatisfied.  It's a testimonial to your strong personality and character, and as such I accept it.

go shine on someone else. If by "overly demanding" you mean questioning the bullshyte MLW moderation... guilty as charged. Thread after thread, literally hundreds of posts from many, many disgruntled members, members chucking it in and walking away from MLW - all so "overly demanding", hey!  :)

I don't see how.  We lost a lot of good posters, and the team was never happy when that happened.  But as I said, the site continues.

"the team"!!! Oh my - how droll. If there was your stated unhappiness, why the phack didn't anything ever change... for the better? Such a high-bar MLW sets for itself: "the site continues"!

Hey - it may be a cycle.  It may reflect the politics of our day.  I personally don't like the 3 prevailing themes that dominate, especially the mud puddle "I hate Muslims" arguments, but there isn't a rule that sends kooks away without reason.  It's a big tent that welcomes anyone who has something to add.

as I've stated in the past - in that very MLW shytehole: you get the board you ask for, you get the board you deserve.

you're welcome - carry on.

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2017, 06:38:13 am »
oh snap! You got me... uhhh... wait now - that useless piece of nothingness was used many times over as a challenging start point for ChasMan to elaborate upon, particularly in terms of his related determining criteria, his subjective whim, his lack of consistency in applying interpretation and enforcement, his banal and tripe instruction to "just report and ignore", etc..

I don't 'got you'.  I am not trying to fight with you.  You said this:

"Any precise and prevailing definition on MLW trolling should be in the board rules for reference. "

I thought there was indeed a definition, so I went over there and found one.  And then I posted it.  And you came back with the retort above.

We are now on the first steps of an arc that I now remember.  It goes like this:

1. You say something.
2. I explain it.
3. You don't acknowledge the explanation, and come up with some more snark.
4. Go to 1.

I now remember many such conversations, that I just had to eventually not respond to because they went nowhere.  Nobody owes you an explanation.  And if you're never going to be satisfied anyway, why should I try to give you one ?  And why would you keep the conversation going unless you're just doing a meta-troll ?  There's no end to it.

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cop out extraordinaire! That ole tried-n-true, fall-back nugget simply allowed ChasMan and his crew to avoid accountability and responsibility for the shyte-house MLW moderation. Membership attempts to understand MLW moderation... to hold the moderators to some semblance of actual interpretation/enforcement practice... to wrestle with the inconsistency of application... that... that became the foundation of the MLW moderation drama that ChasMan so relished.

Firstly, there is this concept called "boil the ocean".  It refers to tasks that are too arduous to warrant their undertaking.  One can't come up with an exhaustive lists of behaviours that would be considered trolling.  Any list you could come up with, that listed specific examples, would be very long and would always be incomplete.  And even then, the subjective decision of a moderator would still be required.

You didn't like the decisions of the moderators, that is clear.  But sometimes you have to accept that moderators just don't agree with you.

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because nothing ever changed. Rather - it only ever got worse. You seem like quite the lil' chatter-box here... certainly begs the question why you sought to become miniChasMan while giving up your posting. Clearly you accomplished didly squat in your presumed/postured policy application discussions - ChasManRules, don't ya know.

Maybe so.  There was a lot of discussion, and a lot of decisions - I can't say how much influence I had overall.

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go shine on someone else. If by "overly demanding" you mean questioning the bullshyte MLW moderation... guilty as charged. Thread after thread, literally hundreds of posts from many, many disgruntled members, members chucking it in and walking away from MLW - all so "overly demanding", hey!  :)

Yes.  This response is typical.  I respond to you, and the bar moves.  You say "there's no written rule", and I produce it, and you just come back with more.  This is how it is with you.

I think your presence there was much more valued than you realize, otherwise there would have been no response at all.

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"the team"!!! Oh my - how droll. If there was your stated unhappiness, why the phack didn't anything ever change... for the better? Such a high-bar MLW sets for itself: "the site continues"!

Some changes happened.  I don't expect that you would understand that, or observe it, or that the result would satisfy you anyway.

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as I've stated in the past - in that very MLW shytehole: you get the board you ask for, you get the board you deserve.

You can reflect on what that means for you - you don't have the board anymore at all... so...

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you're welcome - carry on.

Right-O.

Offline waldo

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Re: Thread Drift
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2017, 08:29:09 am »
I don't 'got you'.  I am not trying to fight with you.  You said this:

"Any precise and prevailing definition on MLW trolling should be in the board rules for reference. "

I thought there was indeed a definition, so I went over there and found one.  And then I posted it.  And you came back with the retort above.

We are now on the first steps of an arc that I now remember.  It goes like this:

1. You say something.
2. I explain it.
3. You don't acknowledge the explanation, and come up with some more snark.
4. Go to 1.

I now remember many such conversations, that I just had to eventually not respond to because they went nowhere.  Nobody owes you an explanation.  And if you're never going to be satisfied anyway, why should I try to give you one ?  And why would you keep the conversation going unless you're just doing a meta-troll ?  There's no end to it.

ahhh, there it is --- classic MLW moderation on display! I respond to you and... I'm a meta-troll. Clearly you felt so emboldened coming back with that fluff-piece that exists within the MLW rules. As I said, it was oft referred to and was/is a piece of nothingness in the face of MLW's failed moderation. The, as you say, "arc" I remember is your explanations had no foundation when balanced against the way ChasMan metered out his MLW moderation drama. But ya, ya... your words also strike a recall with me - the "nobody owes you an explanation" was often pulled from the MLWmoderationQuiver and delivered to questioning members!  ;D

don't respond... or I'll label you a "meta-troll"!

Firstly, there is this concept called "boil the ocean".  It refers to tasks that are too arduous to warrant their undertaking.  One can't come up with an exhaustive lists of behaviours that would be considered trolling.  Any list you could come up with, that listed specific examples, would be very long and would always be incomplete.  And even then, the subjective decision of a moderator would still be required.

You didn't like the decisions of the moderators, that is clear.  But sometimes you have to accept that moderators just don't agree with you.

"don't agree... with... me"? With me? How dismissive you are of the dozens of other MLW members who kept the profile of failed MLW moderation going across the many, many threads that showcased just how unexplained and inconsistent MLW's forced ChasMan moderation drama was.

Yes.  This response is typical.  I respond to you, and the bar moves.  You say "there's no written rule", and I produce it, and you just come back with more.  This is how it is with you.

no - I purposely qualified my statement as, "precise and prevailing"... would you like me to quote it for you? As I've repeated now several times, that "definition" was often referred to in moderationDramaThreads as one needing attention given it's LACK of preciseness in the face of it NOT being representative of the prevailing shyte-house MLW moderation. But ya, your response is typical - you think you've responded... and you haven't actually done so in relation to what actually transpired; in this case, what I actually said. And, apparently, because I had the audacity to respond to your non-response, you label me a meta-troll and state I've moved the bar. Clearly, you're a purrrfect match-made for MLW moderation.

Some changes happened.  I don't expect that you would understand that, or observe it, or that the result would satisfy you anyway.

really - must be since my time, hey! Care to relate said changes... inquiring unsatisfied minds need to know just how, as you stated, "the site continues"!

You can reflect on what that means for you - you don't have the board anymore at all... so...

my choice, right? And, again... if you dare to respond to me, I'll call you a, as you just did to me, meta-troll!