Author Topic: LGBTQ Culture  (Read 578 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2019, 09:11:40 pm »
Good post, except for one thing missing: team politics are not consistent, so they're the exact opposite of each other sometimes but don't line up with themselves either. The new right attitude opposes world trade and immigration because it hurts working people but still opposes unions.

True.  It's strange.

Capitalism really rules over everything.  It makes it necessary for high immigration and free trade.  You can want to bring the manufacturing jobs back or significantly reduce immigration or reduce CO2 but stock markets and GDP growth demand otherwise.  There's almost no choice unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot economically. Resistance is futile. It's been that way for many hundreds of years though.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 09:18:04 pm by Poonlight Graham »
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline wilber

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2019, 10:09:43 pm »
Then why aren't there any woke conservatives?

The term "woke" is just a claim to some sort of intellectual superiority.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline the_squid

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #62 on: December 09, 2019, 10:27:33 pm »
Then why aren't there any woke conservatives?

I didn't say there were.   Not not everyone on "the left" supports being awake. 

Offline kimmy

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2019, 02:13:26 am »


Why do you think it has a lot of traction ? 

You are not engaging on that topic because it's worth considering, or it's being debated in the general population IMO but because it enrages you. 

That's fine too but look objectively at how that idea has travelled through the mechanics and flow of the "marketplace of ideas".  It's a new thing, or at least a re-discovering of an old and forgotten way that the system works:

1. Outrageous idea is developed by fringe dwellers
2. Intelligent people become away of said idea and are outraged
3. Intelligent people bring the idea into general discussion
4. Now the general population is aware of it

This all seems like a new flow that happens because of angertainment.
 

Experience is valid, but doesn't scale to the level of 'general problem'.  I believe the surveys I have read had good methodology but I will look again.

You don't have to quote a survey to get me to care about your personal and specific experience.  That is important and has a role to play.
 

I hear you and I care.

The way I think of such things is that you have to balance between:

"You can't legislate everything"
and
"We must ensure actions so that we can try to make sure [XYZ] never happens"

I am very confused by what happened here, because these are obviously Michael's words, but the forum thinks it's my post?!

I didn't notice this post earlier, and will respond to it later.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2019, 02:45:45 am »
Just musing but ... I'm a bit curious why Trans women are focusing their efforts on cis-lesbians, when there are likely many women who like dick and would also appreciate a partner with a feminine perspective.

Validation.

If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

If a lesbian wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it would validate the trans-woman's identity as a woman. She would have a lover who sees her as she sees herself-- as a woman, not as a cross-dressing man.


It would be nice if all people just stopped telling other people who they 'should' want to have sex with, but there will always be assholes and free speech blah blah. Lol The only answer really is  free choice. If you're not with a person you want to be with sexually, you depart.
The propaganda will still go on, but nobody is forced (eg, by law) to conform.
Despite changes in law, there are still sectors of society who believe or preach that gay sex is a sin. They're wrong, but they won't likely change.
Maybe there will also always be Trans folk who think sex with lesbians is their 'right'. They're wrong, but they won't likely change either.

Therapy may help the girl resist the persuasion of others and do what is right for herself, the only solution really.
If there are issues of possible abuse, force or retaliation upon departure, that's a whole other, possibly legal, issue.


What's going on at campus LGBT clubs and other gay spaces right now is that there is a lot of pressure to be trans-positive, because if people decide you're not trans-positive, you're not allowed.    So you get conversations that go like this:

Gaia: "Hi Becky, I was wondering if you'd like to go out with me Friday."
Becky: "Oh hi, Gaia... I'm sorry, but I'm gay... I'm not into guys."
Gaia: "Well I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. I'm still transitioning, but I'm a woman. So if you're into women, there should be no problem!"
Becky: "Uh, I'm sorry, I'm just not really attracted to you."
Gaia: "why? Is it because I'm trans?"
Becky: "No, it's just that--"
Gaia: "It's because I'm trans, isn't it! Oh my god, Becky is transphobic!  Becky's a TERF! Hey, everybody! Becky's a TERF!"
Everybody: "OMG Becky how could you" "Becky WTF" "GTFO, Becky, we don't want you here." "Get lost TERF scum!"
Becky: "but guys, I just--"
"Becky, you're not welcome here anymore. Just leave."

and of course after the other girls see what happens to Becky, you get this:

Gaia: "Hi Katie, would you like to go out with me Friday?"
Katie: "uhhhhh  ... yes?"

Because being perceived as being transphobic means being disowned, everybody is desperate to prove they're trans-inclusive.  Whether it's by going on a date with Gaia, or by being part of the lynch mob that strings up Becky, people want to prove they're trans-positive so that they don't end up like Becky.

Cybercoma will probably tell you that this is just propaganda, that this doesn't really happen. I have read enough stories from women who have been on the receiving end of this kind of witch-hunt to know that it does happen.


 -k
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2019, 10:39:15 am »
If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

Perhaps she wants to have sex with him/her/whatever based on first impressions without knowing them. That does happen you know, regardless of gender, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. Peoples opinions change after they get to know someone, in all sorts of ways.

Offline Granny

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2019, 07:43:10 pm »

I also don't know what alt-right has to do with trans rights.  Alt-right has to do with white nationalism.
White Christian heterosexual male chauvinist nationalism.

Like those pushing #Wexit:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/my-hometown-is-the-epicentre-of-wexit-i-went-back-to-find-out-why/ar-BBY0aaU?ocid=st
"The federal government we have in Ottawa is trying to disarm us. They are ignoring Canadian voices on the number of immigrants they want to come into the country,” Bell shouts, leaning into the podium. “They are introducing motions and legislation to curb free speech. They are increasingly anti-person, promoting drag queens to kids as well as telling kids there is no such thing as being a boy or a girl. And they are promoting a forced in-your-face LGBT agenda.”

The crowd, many sporting hats with “Wexit” and “Alberta Strong” on them, went wild.


It's a package deal, wherever white supremacists are recruiting.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 09:27:47 pm by Granny »

Offline Granny

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2019, 02:48:18 am »
Validation.

If a straight woman wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it means she actually sees him as a man, which isn't how she wants to be seen.  The relationship would be based on, from the trans-woman's perspective, her being misgendered.  At best the straight woman is into the trans-woman because she doesn't understand the trans-woman's identity... or worse perhaps she has a fetishized view of them.

If a lesbian wants to have sex with a trans-woman, it would validate the trans-woman's identity as a woman. She would have a lover who sees her as she sees herself-- as a woman, not as a cross-dressing man.

What's going on at campus LGBT clubs and other gay spaces right now is that there is a lot of pressure to be trans-positive, because if people decide you're not trans-positive, you're not allowed.    So you get conversations that go like this:

Gaia: "Hi Becky, I was wondering if you'd like to go out with me Friday."
Becky: "Oh hi, Gaia... I'm sorry, but I'm gay... I'm not into guys."
Gaia: "Well I'm not a guy. I'm a woman. I'm still transitioning, but I'm a woman. So if you're into women, there should be no problem!"
Becky: "Uh, I'm sorry, I'm just not really attracted to you."
Gaia: "why? Is it because I'm trans?"
Becky: "No, it's just that--"
Gaia: "It's because I'm trans, isn't it! Oh my god, Becky is transphobic!  Becky's a TERF! Hey, everybody! Becky's a TERF!"
Everybody: "OMG Becky how could you" "Becky WTF" "GTFO, Becky, we don't want you here." "Get lost TERF scum!"
Becky: "but guys, I just--"
"Becky, you're not welcome here anymore. Just leave."

and of course after the other girls see what happens to Becky, you get this:

Gaia: "Hi Katie, would you like to go out with me Friday?"
Katie: "uhhhhh  ... yes?"

Because being perceived as being transphobic means being disowned, everybody is desperate to prove they're trans-inclusive.  Whether it's by going on a date with Gaia, or by being part of the lynch mob that strings up Becky, people want to prove they're trans-positive so that they don't end up like Becky.

Cybercoma will probably tell you that this is just propaganda, that this doesn't really happen. I have read enough stories from women who have been on the receiving end of this kind of witch-hunt to know that it does happen.
-k

In your scenario, Becky calling a Trans woman a 'guy' while turning them down was disrespectful, unnecessary, insulting and likely to make things go sideways. Was it transphobic? Well ... ?
It's never wise to invite argument by trying to explain why you're not attracted to someone. Saying "no" already says that you're not.

I'd wonder how widespread a problem it is that a peer group that would join in and try to bully a person into dating someone they already turned down, 'shun' them the way you describe. Really?

Everybody has to stand up for their own right to choose their own partners for their own reasons,  like Katie and  'the girl' in your previous scenario will have to do. 




« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 02:59:57 am by Granny »

Offline MH

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Re: LGBTQ Culture
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2019, 05:53:17 am »

I'd wonder how widespread a problem it is that a peer group that would join in and try to bully a person into dating someone they already turned down, 'shun' them the way you describe. Really?


We talked about that.  kimmy says it is at least somewhat, so who am I to say?