Author Topic: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?  (Read 5731 times)

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Offline MH

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Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« on: October 19, 2017, 06:42:18 am »
https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/10/daily-chart-11?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/

Good news is that college students are more open of controversial speech than the public generally.  Bad news is that a minority of university students ruins it for everyone.

Overall, I would say the meme that college students enjoy suppressing free speech is wrong, based on this.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 09:07:23 am »
the meme that college students enjoy suppressing free speech is wrong,

Ok, maybe they don't enjoy it, but it still seems to be happening. Maybe those suppressing free speech are a small minority, but they're a small minority that is getting their way, aren't they?

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Offline MH

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 09:19:00 am »
Ok, maybe they don't enjoy it, but it still seems to be happening.

Seems to be, or is ?

How would we know, exactly, if this is news or just more attention to something that has been happening forever ?

'Because it's in the news' isn't a reason.

Quote
Maybe those suppressing free speech are a small minority, but they're a small minority that is getting their way, aren't they?

 -k

Are they ?  More than before ?  Did we know that colleges are more 'open' than society in general ?  Has that been mentioned in all of these stories, as in closing with " It should be noted, however, colleges and universities are still more tolerant of differing view than society as a whole."

For that matter...  is this report even right ?

I base my reliance on this on the Economist's reputation and this statement:

Quote
Answers can be found in General Social Survey (GSS), an academic questionnaire which has probed American attitudes on free speech for decades.

We have to re-examine everything these days.  We are through the looking glass.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 01:55:11 pm »
People have no clue what free speech is.
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Offline MH

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 02:16:59 pm »
People have no clue what free speech is.

I know what it *is* and I also recognize the hysteria around Nazis not being allowed to march etc.  But maybe we, collectively, could agree on some principles and actually bring this stupid disagreement to a close?

After all, what is really new in society about people giving unpopular opinions to groups?

It's almost like *somebody* wants everyone to keep fighting.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 06:10:07 pm »
There's an ideology created now, coming out of campuses, where one of the purposes is to shut people up who disagree with their views.  The legitimacy of your views is based on your perceived victimhood identity, with indigenous/LGBT/visible minorities given more legitimacy and white men the least.  Not based on your argument, but based on your perceived identity.   If you're white they'll tell you to check your privilege or that you're "whitesplaining", or if you're a man it's "mansplaining".  Safe spaces, trigger warnings, microaggressions.  The PC police are everywhere.  Disagree with the mainstream paradigm and you're labelled a racist islamophobe homophobe etc. (though some legitimately are) This isn't just a few bad seeds who try to use a heckler's veto to shut people up.

I'm sorry but I don't have faith that these polls capture what's happening on campuses.
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Offline MH

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 06:25:47 pm »

I'm sorry but I don't have faith that these polls capture what's happening on campuses.

Right.  No, they don't carry the latest rage-fad for reporting, what they do is long-term polling.  As such, I'm inclined to believe it.  I just finished watching the Vietnam war doc, wherein they show American outrage at someone who was convicted to prison for war crimes, ie. killing 20+ old people, women, children and babies. 

Now THAT is mainstream.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 08:04:25 pm »
honestly all I saw were the few questions in the article.  I'm not saying the polling is wrong.  I'd have to read the whole poll and look closer at the questions.  Free speech has become much more polarizing even in the last year.
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 08:27:11 pm »
People have no clue what free speech is.

Yeah, I keep having to tell people that.
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Online Bubbermiley

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 08:32:34 pm »
Anecdotally, I don't think an environment where a professor is forced to resign for making a bad joke about slavery is an environment where people are encouraged to express themselves freely.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 08:57:25 pm »
Right.  No, they don't carry the latest rage-fad for reporting, what they do is long-term polling.  As such, I'm inclined to believe it.  I just finished watching the Vietnam war doc, wherein they show American outrage at someone who was convicted to prison for war crimes, ie. killing 20+ old people, women, children and babies. 

Now THAT is mainstream.

I watched that too. There seemed to be an awful lot of people who outraged at the US in general, not just Calley.
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 08:58:26 pm »
https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/10/daily-chart-11?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/

Good news is that college students are more open of controversial speech than the public generally.  Bad news is that a minority of university students ruins it for everyone.

Overall, I would say the meme that college students enjoy suppressing free speech is wrong, based on this.

It's like a lot of groups. The good ones don't make the news.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 09:00:34 pm »
I know what it *is* and I also recognize the hysteria around Nazis not being allowed to march etc.  But maybe we, collectively, could agree on some principles and actually bring this stupid disagreement to a close?

After all, what is really new in society about people giving unpopular opinions to groups?

It's almost like *somebody* wants everyone to keep fighting.

If you agree on principles and I don't, what right have you to apply them to me?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline MH

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 09:18:30 pm »
I watched that too. There seemed to be an awful lot of people who outraged at the US in general, not just Calley.

Sure, but what's the relevance to this discussion? 

Offline MH

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Re: Is The College Intolerance Meme Bullshit ?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 09:23:53 pm »
If you agree on principles and I don't, what right have you to apply them to me?

What ?

'Agreement' between parties.  Not really that difficult to figure out.