Author Topic: Interesting videos  (Read 1284 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2018, 10:39:38 pm »
And who gets to decide who is "informed" and who is not? Give government a weapon like that and it *will* be used to silence legitimate political debate.
Compared to what exactly? China's police state that seems to think Orwell's 1984 was an instruction manual? Or Russia's kleptocracy where inventing creative ways to kill government critics is national sport?

Trump seems to admire both. Apparently his base is OK with whatever he does.

Online ?Impact

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2018, 11:07:15 pm »
The proof is that we elect Clinton for 2 terms, then Bush for 2, then Obama.

I think that is more about better the devil you know, combined with the forced out after 2 terms.

Offline wilber

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2018, 12:34:32 am »
I'm more and more convinced that democracy should be designed to discourage people like this from participating.  The thing is, there is no predominance of right or left in the uninformed despite what some say.  The proof is that we elect Clinton for 2 terms, then Bush for 2, then Obama.

We elected?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 01:51:44 pm »
I watched the Rees Moog interview and while I don't share many of his views he comes across as very credible. I think his assertion that he wouldn't try to impose his religious beliefs on Parliament and to respect the national will is believable. We have a tradition of that in our country. Chretien was a practicing Catholic and Harper an active Christian but neither tried challenge women's reproductive rights or same sex marriage. To keep a campaign promise, Harper asked Parliament whether the issue of same sex marriage should be reopened, it said no and he said the issue was dead as far as he was concerned.

I'm half way through the Phillips show and will get to the rest of it later. Interesting stuff and I certainly agree that if you don't acknowledge the problems, you will never find the solutions. Immigration is a fact of life, it's not going to stop, so everyone needs to be smarter and more honest when it comes to dealing with the issues it presents.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2018, 02:23:42 pm »
I was more interested in something that oldER-people would know about, the sort of stuff that people talked about before the internet.

 -k

The moon landings never happened. NASA took the video on a secret sound stage in Hollywood.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline wilber

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2018, 02:33:11 pm »
when did chem trails start? Many conspiracy theories are older than the internet but have gained a whole new dimension with the internet. The Illuminati etc.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2018, 02:33:55 pm »
Come to think of it, democracy sucks.

Democracy can work. It just isn't working now.
You know, before there was television, newspapers printed the entire text of important speeches by politicians. People who considered themselves to be responsible voters would, despite the long hours they worked, go out and attend such speeches, even meet the candidates.

Now, the more responsible voters read the papers and least try to find out something about the party's positions. Not many know much of anything about their local candidate, other than, perhaps, what they might read about in the paper, or if inspired, on their web site. Only a rare few attend actual debates or speeches.
Most do neither, contening themselves with headlines, the short snippets on the TV news, Facebook and the like.

Most know very little about what is going on in the world of politics because they look down on politics and sneer at politicians and have much more interesting things to occupy their time. I posted a little memo from bureacrats at Immigration earlier in another topic which said that ministers should do their best not to mention the number of immigrants because while support for immigration was reasonably high, that support plunged when people were told what the numbers were. Most seemed to think it was about 150k a year. I would submit that this lack of knowledge runs across all policy areas. A poll would likely show most had no idea what our debt or deficit was, what the government spends money on, what subsidies it gives to business, or why, or how those policies impact their own lives.

That's why I've been suggesting for years that, at a minimum, people should be rquired to register to vote, as they do in the US, and pass a basic knowledge test.

In this day and age, the only real purpose democracy serves is to throw people out when their incompetence becomes too broad and deep to ignore. Well, a million knowledgeable voters could do that as well, and probably better, than ten million largely ignorant voters.



"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2018, 02:38:46 pm »
And who gets to decide who is "informed" and who is not? Give government a weapon like that and it *will* be used to silence legitimate political debate.
Compared to what exactly? China's police state that seems to think Orwell's 1984 was an instruction manual? Or Russia's kleptocracy where inventing creative ways to kill government critics is national sport?

The problem is always that you need someone to watch over politicians, but then who watches the watchers?
Democracy lets the people watch over the politicians, but the people are largely ignorant.

I would like to see a meritocracy, where the best and brightest children (after testing) are guided into special classes which will produce the next generation of leaders. They'll take university courses that prepare them to run government and deal with the people, then be placed as something like a school trustee, as a first step, then on to local town councilor, city councilor, then MPP, then MP, then into cabinet, depending on their demonstrated abilities, and observed  honesty and integrity.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2018, 03:16:39 pm »
I watched the Rees Moog interview and while I don't share many of his views he comes across as very credible. I think his assertion that he wouldn't try to impose his religious beliefs on Parliament and to respect the national will is believable. We have a tradition of that in our country. Chretien was a practicing Catholic and Harper an active Christian but neither tried challenge women's reproductive rights or same sex marriage. To keep a campaign promise, Harper asked Parliament whether the issue of same sex marriage should be reopened, it said no and he said the issue was dead as far as he was concerned.

I think the other interesting aspect of this video, one I hadn't quite grasped at first, was how very different it was from Canada in that here was a backbench MP on national TV being questioned about HIMSELF. Not about party policy. About him. And he was clearly speaking openly, freely, and in an unrehearsed manner. How often do you see any politician in Canada in an interview like that? The PMO in Canada, or the party whip's office, closely watches and controls everything caucus says, and their members have to clear any speeches or interviews with the party whip. What we tend to get are canned replies straight out of the policy manual, and then the politician in question weaseling away from answering anything that varies from those rehearsed talking points.

And it's that sort of thing that attracts people to the likes of Trump and Ford.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2018, 03:22:06 pm »
I would like to see a meritocracy, where the best and brightest children (after testing) are guided into special classes which will produce the next generation of leaders.
Great in theory but who gets to decide what the content of these classes will be? Indoctrinating the next generation of leaders with the obsessions of the Laurentian elite (currently identity politics/climate posturing/unfettered immigration etc) will hardly increase respect for the leaders no matter how talented they are.

They'll take university courses that prepare them to run government and deal with the people, then be placed as something like a school trustee, as a first step, then on to local town councilor, city councilor, then MPP, then MP, then into cabinet, depending on their demonstrated abilities, and observed  honesty and integrity.
University courses taught by the SJW zealots that currently infest academia in Canada? This does not inspire confidence.

Democracy for all, even the ignorant, has the virtue of being simple and inclusive. It is not perfect but it can be self correcting. Trump, as much as I despise him, was a correction made necessary by the arrogance of the coastal elites in the US. Unfortunately, I fear this correction will do real and lasting damage to the world economy without addressing the real issues (such as Chinese mercantilism) because Trump is such an incompetent negotiator.

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2018, 05:05:05 pm »
Democracy can work. It just isn't working now.
...
Only a rare few attend actual debates or speeches.
...
That's why I've been suggesting for years that, at a minimum, people should be rquired to register to vote, as they do in the US, and pass a basic knowledge test.

Yes, usually the right wing candidates skip the debates like several of Doug Ford's candidates did a few months back. Ford himself skipped at least one of the leaders debates as well.
...
You are required to register to vote, and the system in Ontario makes it very hard. I moved before the vote this spring and tried to change it online and the system failed. I sent an email that was never responded to. I went to the regional elections office and they couldn't change it either. At least they gave me a paper signed by the polling officer that I could hand in at the poll. One day before election day I received a postcard that said I was now on the list. At the poll however they didn't have my name, but at least that paper I got before worked.


Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2018, 07:46:36 pm »
Great in theory but who gets to decide what the content of these classes will be? Indoctrinating the next generation of leaders with the obsessions of the Laurentian elite (currently identity politics/climate posturing/unfettered immigration etc) will hardly increase respect for the leaders no matter how talented they are.
University courses taught by the SJW zealots that currently infest academia in Canada?

I would not think there'd be much in the way of politics before post-secondary. At that point, well, all our political leaders go through university NOW, so all that would change is that the curriculum would be specifically tailored to those headed for political office. I agree that the lack of political diversity on university campuses is a major issue that needs to be solved. But that's not the point of this question.

The more important question would be who determines the criteria for advancement through the ranks of politicians. Who decides which one did well as a trustee and should be moved up, or which one did well as a city councilor and should be moved to the provincial level? For that I would suggest boards made up of a diverse group nominated from various entities like the bar association, the Canadian medical association, unions, religious bodies, the military. Broadly speaking, how about one ex-military officer, one lawyer, one doctor, one union activist, one teacher, one religious figure, one cop/ex cop, one scientist, one small business rep and one big business rep on each board? 

Possibly these could be elected positions by the groups they represent, but no political parties would be allowed.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2018, 07:47:25 pm »
Yes, usually the right wing candidates skip the debates like several of Doug Ford's

I recall Trudeau the elder skipping debates when he was way out in front. It's not a right/left issue, though you seem determined to make every issue a right/left issue.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2018, 04:26:14 pm »
I would not think there'd be much in the way of politics before post-secondary. At that point, well, all our political leaders go through university NOW, so all that would change is that the curriculum would be specifically tailored to those headed for political office.

So what is in a political leaders curriculum?

Offline MH

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2018, 06:17:48 pm »
I recall Trudeau the elder skipping debates when he was way out in front. 

Not calling you a liar but I am curious about this, as I don't remember that at all.
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