Author Topic: Interesting videos  (Read 8650 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #120 on: September 30, 2018, 09:50:34 pm »
If they don't moderate Twitter properly, fairly, evenly, it could go the way of MLW  :D

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Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #121 on: September 30, 2018, 10:32:53 pm »
But that just creates a new problem.  But hey, that's Cali's choice not mine so whatevs.
What will happen is the same thing that happened when they brought in gender/minority preferences for government contracts. Many companies simply found a suitable woman/minority to take 1% of the company with all kinds of limitations on what they can do with their shares. Meanwhile some entrepreneurial women marketed themselves and ended up with 1% stakes in many companies who needed to bid on government. So expect to see the same few women showing up on many boards with decision making abilities informally or formally restricted because they will be getting paid well to satisfy a government quota and they know it. The law will do nothing but harm the cause for female representation on boards.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 10:53:10 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #122 on: September 30, 2018, 11:16:15 pm »
What will happen is the same thing that happened when they brought in gender/minority preferences for government contracts. Many companies simply found a suitable woman/minority to take 1% of the company with all kinds of limitations on what they can do with their shares. Meanwhile some entrepreneurial women marketed themselves and ended up with 1% stakes in many companies who needed to bid on government. So expect to see the same few women showing up on many boards with decision making abilities informally or formally restricted because they will be getting paid well to satisfy a government quota and they know it. The law will do nothing but harm the cause for female representation on boards.

Your so called "preferences" were simply an attempt to balance things up after the actual population got tired of old white farts trying to control everything.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #123 on: September 30, 2018, 11:43:43 pm »
Of course not, but it could do a much better job of setting out clear, nonpartisan rules and enforcing them even evenhandedly. The damage to twitter's rep comes from the perception that reasonable right wing posters are locked out while left-wing racists are allowed to post with impunity. I can't find a link to the 'panel' of experts that twitter got to advise them a couple years ago but it was a pack of rabid SJWs. It should come as no surprise that they are under fire for bias today.

Who are these reasonable right-wing voices who are being locked out? Surely you're not proposing that Alex Jones or Milo Yiannopolous are reasonable right-wing voices.   Do you have a specific case you'd like to discuss, or is this all hypothetical?

Twitter reaching out to SJW types for advice might have had something to do with the organized harassment campaigns being run across Twitter by people like the GamerGaters, 4chan, and particular when Milo and his legion of troglodyte followers ran Leslie Jones off Twitter permanently with a disgusting barrage of racism.  The wave of negative media coverage these events brought to Twitter are kind of an important piece of context in understanding why they reacted the way they did, which you seem to have missed.

What parts of their rules do you feel are partisan?   

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2018, 12:11:09 am »
Because slander/libel is considered a remedy against falsehood which threatens or damages an individual or organization or their reputation.
You're still free to speak your mind, but if you can't prove what you say is true, then you're in trouble.
For example, the families in the Sandy Hook incident could sue Jones. Clinton could, as well.

Veteran conspiritard David Icke has long contended that the British royal family are actually 12-foot tall lizard people from outer space, disguised as humans to enslave our race. "If it's not true, why haven't they sued me?" he asks to anybody who questions the notion.   Generally, the answer to that is that jumping in the sewer to fight with rats just leaves you smelly and dirty, even if you kill the rats.

In the case of the Sandy Hook families, some of them are suing Jones. His lawyers have alternately argued that his stuff is too silly to be taken seriously, and that suing him would put a chill on journalism. At one point they even compared him to Woodward and Bernstein.  Whatever the case, these families might get some cash from him, but they won't get their lives back: they'll continue to be harassed by demented Jones listeners who are still convinced it's the truth regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.

In the case of the pizza shop, Hillary didn't file a lawsuit against Jones, but the pizza shop did, after a deranged idiot showed up with a gun demanding to "free the children". Jones begrudgingly issued a retraction of his Comet Pizza theories to avoid being sued, but this doesn't really make up for the fact that, you know, a deranged idiot with a gun showed up at their store and threatened people. Thankfully nobody was hurt, but it could have easily turn out differently.

And what if there's nobody to sue?  At present there are more Comet Pizza style fake news items being circulated around, but instead of Alex Jones they're being put forward by "QAnon" and anonymous pranksters on 4chan and that sort of thing, and being circulated around Twitter and Facebook by morons, crazy-people, and gullible old-people. Who would you sue? Where would you even start? If they do track one of these malicious lies to some basement-dwelling, child-**** obsessed incel teenager and sue him, is getting $13.52 from his broke worthless ass going to make up for the damage done to your business?

I think the worry is bias. In one of the things I read, and maybe posted recently there was a thing about a reporter for the New  York Times who regularly tweeted things about whites which were pretty racist, although now she says, basically "I was joking!" If so she liked to joke like that over a long period of time. Someone retweeted her exact words but reversed the races and twitter blocked them almost immediately.

https://www.instyle.com/news/why-new-york-times-hire-sarah-jeong-labeled-racist

I only briefly looked into the Sarah Jeong situation, but the outrage didn't feel authentic to me.  I don't feel like this was "hey, this really hurts my feelings," I felt like it was more along the lines of "she is allowed to say that sort of thing yet I got banned for calling Leslie Jones a gorilla, this is totally unfair."  I feel like probably only the kind of people who are mad that they got banned for calling Leslie Jones a gorilla are genuinely upset that Sarah Jeong didn't get banned.

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Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #125 on: October 01, 2018, 01:48:39 am »
Do you have a specific case you'd like to discuss, or is this all hypothetical?
Hypothetical. I am very concerned of the tendency of left wing activists to label anyone they disagree with as 'nazis/alt-right' so whenever someone talks about banning 'alt-right' voices I want to hear that the organization doing the banning has procedures in place to ensure that people are not banned because of the labels their opponents choose to stick on them. Which I why I talked a lot about the need for transparent procedures and clear, consistently enforced rules. I also see clear rules as a way for twitter to combat critiques on both sides (if twitter is doing it job right the extremes of the left and the right will constantly whine about bias).

The wave of negative media coverage these events brought to Twitter are kind of an important piece of context in understanding why they reacted the way they did, which you seem to have missed.
Don't use twitter and only know about it from what gets covered in the non-twitter media so I obviously missed that context.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:06:33 am by TimG »

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #126 on: October 01, 2018, 05:52:18 am »
I would at least put a timeline on these things.  Say 10 years.  So old white dudes get use to having women on boards and realizing they're actually competent.

Something that never gets discussed in sunset clauses for these things.  They absolutely need to be temporary.  Management in my work team is about 50% women and the women are in more senior positions.  If we ever had gender quotas (we didn't) then we could consider phasing them out soon.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #127 on: October 01, 2018, 05:54:37 am »
Don't worry mike, it's not your fault.

I'm just not down with kicking people who do a service for free.  It's very ungrateful.  And it's not like solving the subjectivity of moderation problem is easy to do. 

I have seen these boards in many flavours.  This one runs on us trusting the mod, but I have also seen one decision result in half of a board leaving just like that.  Live for the day.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #128 on: October 01, 2018, 05:59:39 am »
Don't use twitter and only know about it from what gets covered in the non-twitter media so I obviously missed that context.

Even then, they aren't really navigating what is fair and what isn't.  They are navigating what is perceived as fair and what isn't, so 'community standards' will decided.  At some point it will be fine to say "white people are lame" but not fine to say "black people are lame".  Certain types of people can't deal with that and say it's "unfair".  Maybe it is, or maybe it isn't but new tech media companies like Twitter aren't in business to decide on such things.  If people think Twitter is a trolling ground they won't go there.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #129 on: October 01, 2018, 10:57:35 am »
I would at least put a timeline on these things.  Say 10 years.  So old white dudes get use to having women on boards and realizing they're actually competent.

What if they're not competent?

What if they're only appointed to boards because someone ordered them to find some woman to put there?
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Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #130 on: October 01, 2018, 11:19:23 am »
What if they're not competent?

What if they're only appointed to boards because someone ordered them to find some woman to put there?

And what if they are competent but they aren't allowed in to the "old boys" club?

Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #131 on: October 01, 2018, 01:30:40 pm »
I only briefly looked into the Sarah Jeong situation, but the outrage didn't feel authentic to me.
I take exception to this. I am "authentically" angry that this racist snit did not have to face the same consequences of other racist snits. Just because I don't rant on twitter or facebook does not mean I am not outraged by the double standard that is allowed to exist. If we really want a society where racism does not exist then racism in all its forms needs to be called out. If we don't really care about getting rid of racism and think that racists like Jeong are fine then we should be fine with all racists. Which is it?

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #132 on: October 01, 2018, 01:40:43 pm »
Quote
Of course not, but it could do a much better job of setting out clear, nonpartisan rules and enforcing them even evenhandedly.

Why should Twitter be nonpartisan? 

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #133 on: October 01, 2018, 01:57:50 pm »
Sarah Jeong lashing out at the racist trolls who harass her, while possibly not a wise thing to do, does not equal a racist.  Considering the context of her posts might be a good idea. 

TimG is taking these posts out of context and calling her a racist....   the same strategy as many SJWs.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:02:45 pm by the_squid »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting videos
« Reply #134 on: October 01, 2018, 02:21:29 pm »
Sarah Jeong lashing out at the racist trolls who harass her, while possibly not a wise thing to do, does not equal a racist.  Considering the context of her posts might be a good idea. 

TimG is taking these posts out of context and calling her a racist....   the same strategy as many SJWs.


She SAYS that's what she was doing, but she was saying these things over a period of many months, before the tweets she provided to show how she was harassed, and well afterwards. I wonder if you'd be so accepting of the excuse if they were from a white guy saying the same sorts of things about Black or Chinese people.
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