Author Topic: Interesting news items  (Read 3619 times)

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Online wilber

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #195 on: January 05, 2019, 05:55:05 pm »
Maybe you didn't know that Inuvik in the NWT receives only about 10% less hours of sunlight than does Toronto.And, in Inuvik you have 56 days in a row when the sun doesn't go down. Solar is becoming very popular in the NWT, especially as AGW increases.

You also have 56 days when it doesn't come up.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #196 on: January 06, 2019, 02:55:31 pm »
Fiddling with solar cells to perform better at high incident angles will only reduce the energy that can be used at low incident angles (i.e. they produces more consistent output for a longer time).
Are you suggesting that all improvements at high incident angles are equally offset with loses at lower incident angles? Yes, tracking panels will give you the maximum efficiency overall, and are in widespread usage. I am just pointing out that non-tracking panels should not be dismissed either. At higher latitudes setting them on south facing slope (e.g. roof mount) is a simple way to optimize them for lower incident angles over the average day.

They compete with natural gas peaking generators but are a lot less flexible.

I guess responding in milliseconds instead of minutes is considered a lot less flexible in your book. They offer very different benefits, you are saying a car is bad only a bus will do. You are also totally ignoring the technology offers far more flexibility because it can be configured to offer different benefits and are only focusing on part of the system and how it was configured.

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #197 on: January 06, 2019, 03:07:26 pm »
You also have 56 days when it doesn't come up.

True, and that's when you switch to wind, and of course as storage improves, as it is rapidly, you can save up a lot of both.

Online wilber

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #198 on: January 06, 2019, 08:19:54 pm »
True, and that's when you switch to wind, and of course as storage improves, as it is rapidly, you can save up a lot of both.

The problem with solar in the Arctic is it only works when you least need it, in the summer. On the other hand, anything that reduces the need to truck in LNG and diesel to run generators is positive.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #199 on: January 06, 2019, 09:02:37 pm »
Are you suggesting that all improvements at high incident angles are equally offset with loses at lower incident angles?
Yes, because for a given manufacturing process the density of cells will be the same which means orientating some of the cells to work better at high incident angles necessarily reduces the number of cells oriented for low incident angles. Improvements in technology can increase the overall density but the trade off will always exist.

I guess responding in milliseconds instead of minutes is considered a lot less flexible in your book.
Gas plants can operate for long periods of time. Batteries offer a few minutes of power. That is what makes gas more flexible and always a necessary part of a grid. Short duration battery installations are duct tape that mitigates some of the harm caused by introducing solar but cannot completely compensate for them. Gas installations are still necessary and will be for the foreseeable future.

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #200 on: January 06, 2019, 09:21:38 pm »
The problem with solar in the Arctic is it only works when you least need it, in the summer. On the other hand, anything that reduces the need to truck in LNG and diesel to run generators is positive.

That is quite true of course, but as storage capability improves we might be able to put some of those trucks to better use and also not have to pay 4 bucks a piece for a grapefruit after the sun goes down.

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #201 on: January 06, 2019, 09:29:44 pm »
Yes, because for a given manufacturing process the density of cells will be the same which means orientating some of the cells to work better at high incident angles necessarily reduces the number of cells oriented for low incident angles. Improvements in technology can increase the overall density but the trade off will always exist.
Gas plants can operate for long periods of time. Batteries offer a few minutes of power. That is what makes gas more flexible and always a necessary part of a grid. Short duration battery installations are duct tape that mitigates some of the harm caused by introducing solar but cannot completely compensate for them. Gas installations are still necessary and will be for the foreseeable future.

Gas plants, coal mines, oil wells etc. can operate for a period of time long enough until we suck the last of it dry. We are going to look pretty stupid when that day comes if we don't prepare for it, and not only the "eastern bastards freeze in the dark". Do you have any idea how much solar power we get every day that we need to capture to meet our energy needs?" About 1 %. 

Online wilber

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #202 on: January 06, 2019, 10:12:50 pm »
That is quite true of course, but as storage capability improves we might be able to put some of those trucks to better use and also not have to pay 4 bucks a piece for a grapefruit after the sun goes down.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the storage capability. I don't believe there is a silver bullet anywhere in sight that will replace all fossil fuels. I think that future energy requirements will come from a variety of sources including renewables and fossil fuels.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #203 on: January 06, 2019, 10:32:45 pm »
I wouldn't hold my breath on the storage capability. I don't believe there is a silver bullet anywhere in sight that will replace all fossil fuels. I think that future energy requirements will come from a variety of sources including renewables and fossil fuels.

Well, on the one hand I know quite well that in all likelihood the last shower I take, the water will still be heated by gas. And I don't have kids so once I'm gone I don't really give a fiddely arse **** what happens to this planet. On the other, it's interesting to see that people are getting the point that dinosaur **** won't last forever. Some folks seem to think it will.   

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #204 on: January 07, 2019, 07:36:26 pm »
Well, on the one hand I know quite well that in all likelihood the last shower I take, the water will still be heated by gas.

About 30% of my showers are solar heated.

Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #205 on: January 07, 2019, 08:54:41 pm »
About 30% of my showers are solar heated.

Hey, didn't you hear, Trump says global warming isn't happening. Tomorrow, after your shower, grab a pick axe and go dig some coal. It's the way of the future.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #206 on: January 08, 2019, 04:23:56 pm »
Yes, because for a given manufacturing process the density...

Agreed, if you keep doing the same thing you get no improvement. Instead of a simple metal grid, you can use Fresnel lenses, or even ring-shaped metallic nanocavity arrays. Lets not get away from the fact however that the amount of energy needed is still only a very small percentage of what reaches the surface anyway.

Batteries offer a few minutes of power. ... Gas installations are still necessary and will be for the foreseeable future.

Battery capacity is a function of how big and how they are configured. Musk math (so some hyperbole may be present) is that the scope of battery manufacturing needed to meet global demand for the electricity grid is on the order of present automobile manufacturing. The point being that is it big, but not something outside of our capability.

Let us not forget that there are a lot of battery storage alternatives to lithium-ion. The interesting ones I see are salt water based, and potassium air. They both rely on abundant natural resources, and recycling would be easier (in the case of the salt water ones, you could literally mix the components and get sea water which is easy to dispose of; potassium is the 7th most abundant element in the earths crust). Both those technologies offer very deep discharging: 80% in the salt water ones, and 90% in potassium air (by comparison lead acid is 50% and lithium ion is 70%). The disadvantage to salt water is relatively slow charge/discharge times (10 hour/20 hour in current production batteries), but that could be combined with other technologies to smooth out the overall rate. Salt water also cannot operate in very cold temperatures (about -5C), so would need to be housed in buildings or warming blankets in northern climates. Salt water appears to have similar weight storage densities to lithium ion, and potassium air seems to be far better by a factor of about 3.


Offline TimG

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #207 on: January 08, 2019, 06:05:57 pm »
Let us not forget that there are a lot of battery storage alternatives to lithium-ion...
The issue has never been about technology (i.e. can we build it?) but about economics (i.e. can we afford to build it?). There has been an economic incentive to develop grid scale batteries for 60+ years because these kinds of batteries would make the management of the grid so much easier even without renewables. They have not been deployed because they would cost too much money and there is little evidence that the cost structures are going to change significantly given current trends. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not our society depends on access to cheap energy and unfortunately, solar/wind and other non-dispatchable sources are expensive once you build all the infrastructure needed to turn the sun or wind into *useful* energy.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 01:19:23 am by TimG »

Offline Goddess

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #208 on: January 10, 2019, 11:33:52 am »
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."

Offline kimmy

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #209 on: January 14, 2019, 01:24:05 am »
Canadian scientists have observed interesting and mysterious repeating "fast burst" radio signals coming from a galaxy 1.5 billion light years away:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/radio-signals-fast-radio-bursts-frbs-galaxy-signal-repeated-space-scientists-a8719886.html

CHIME-- "Canadian Hydrogen Intensity Mapping Experiment" is some kind of project in BC that detected the signals.  They don't really know what causes these repeating fast burst radio signals.  I gather that repeating signals are not an anomaly, and that fast burst signals are not an anomaly, but repeating fast burst signals is rare and hard to explain.

Whatever produced these signals obviously happened a very long time ago, and was also very powerful.  These millisecond-long bursts originated with as much energy as our sun produces in a year.

 -k
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