Author Topic: Interesting news items  (Read 1300 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 04:47:26 pm »
People are instinctively designed to be territorial and tribal. 

Right - so why do you cede to populist emotionality in some circumstances and not others ?

When it's emotional defense of the Canadian way of life ... it could be healthcare, big business or immigration...

Trying to talk sense into people is always an option, or leading them from a knee-jerk reaction can happen too.

I think that I don't trust people's gut-level reactions ever.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 06:31:31 pm »
And so if hospitals don't report, how then does this MP happen to just "know" the stats? Or is anecdotal evidence that suits your argument good enough for you yet again?

This is off topic and there is already a discussion on this in another topic.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2018, 07:02:39 am »
GIGO. Statcan can only base its numbers on what hospitals report, and hospitals, for the most part, are not reporting. Nor is there anywhere on the form to report citizenship. But if a Liberal MP says over 300 foreign births took place in one Richmond hospital in one year I don't think it's out of line to presume there are many more of them across Canada.
So then you don't know if it's happening or not because there is no verifiable evidence to back up the MP's claims. The appropriate stance isn't to run with this information and make wild speculations about immigration. The appropriate stance is to say that we need more information or better information.

For the record, the provinces are required by law to report all births in the country, even by non-resident women. So contrary to your claim, the data is out there and the problem just isn't what you seem to think it is.

Statistics Canada - Vital Statistics Birth Database
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&Id=420279&dis=1

VSBD List of Variables (Notice: mother's residence as well as place of birth are listed)
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvVariableList&Id=420279&dis=1

This database can also be linked to the Census and T1 Tax Files, so mobility, citizenship, and everything else can be tabulated.

So the information is available. It also doesn't appear as though it's a very big problem and that the MP in question is wrong.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 04:49:27 pm »
Right - so why do you cede to populist emotionality in some circumstances and not others ?

Who says I do?

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When it's emotional defense of the Canadian way of life ... it could be healthcare, big business or immigration...

Defense of the Canadian way of life is instinctive. And practical, in that I don't want the country turning into a shithole. My feelings about healthcare, big business and immigration can all be easily defended on logical and practical reasons.

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Trying to talk sense into people is always an option, or leading them from a knee-jerk reaction can happen too.

Trudeau's idea of community buy-in for various resource projects depended on reasonable people discussing things with reasonable people and arriving at compromise. That was na´ve, even childish, because the people on one side of the argument were and remain entirely uninterested in any kind of compromise. The same can be said about progressives on topics like health care, immigration, business, and the (sneer, sneer) Canadian (sneer sneer) way of life.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2018, 04:50:11 pm »
So then you don't know if it's happening or not because there is no verifiable evidence to back up the MP's claims. The appropriate stance isn't to run with this information and make wild speculations about immigration. The appropriate stance is to say that we need more information or better information.

For the record, the provinces are required by law to report all births in the country, even by non-resident women. So contrary to your claim, the data is out there and the problem just isn't what you seem to think it is.

Statistics Canada - Vital Statistics Birth Database
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvey&Id=420279&dis=1

VSBD List of Variables (Notice: mother's residence as well as place of birth are listed)
http://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p2SV.pl?Function=getSurvVariableList&Id=420279&dis=1

This database can also be linked to the Census and T1 Tax Files, so mobility, citizenship, and everything else can be tabulated.

So the information is available. It also doesn't appear as though it's a very big problem and that the MP in question is wrong.

You've already made these statements in another topic. There's no reason to make them again here.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2018, 06:30:37 pm »
1. Who says I do?

2. Defense of the Canadian way of life is instinctive. And practical, in that I don't want the country turning into a shithole. My feelings about healthcare, big business and immigration can all be easily defended on logical and practical reasons.

3. Trudeau's idea of community buy-in for various resource projects depended on reasonable people discussing things with reasonable people and arriving at compromise. That was na´ve, even childish, because the people on one side of the argument were and remain entirely uninterested in any kind of compromise.

4. The same can be said about progressives on topics like health care, immigration, business, and the (sneer, sneer) Canadian (sneer sneer) way of life.
1. I think I was thinking of your cite that most Canadians don't want to have foreigners giving birth in Canada, and having the baby declared Canadian.  And that being a reason to pass a law or take action somehow.

2. You just said that your "feelings" can be defended "logically".  Think about that a second.  Feelings and logic are two entirely different things.  I think you need to resolve that.  I get pissed off about things, but eventually talk myself out of it and realize it's my emotions acting.  Rich D-Bags in BMWs make my life hell but I don't demonize them, I recognize my irrational feelings and rise above.

3. Your side ?  Clearly your feelings are logical so you shouldn't HAVE to compromise - am I right ?

4. Yes, progressives are perhaps more guilty of being self-righteous.  I have been called 'too subjective' or bending over too far backwards, mainly because I engage with a wide range of opinions.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2018, 03:17:21 pm »
https://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/man-fined-124-kicking-seagull-ate-cheeseburger-57650119

I think the headline pretty much covers it.

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Man fined $124 for kicking seagull that ate cheeseburger
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."
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Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2018, 10:14:37 pm »
I'm not even going to click on it.  I will just be quietly sad.

Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2018, 10:25:26 pm »
...

ok I'm over it now.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2018, 07:03:23 pm »
1. I think I was thinking of your cite that most Canadians don't want to have foreigners giving birth in Canada, and having the baby declared Canadian.  And that being a reason to pass a law or take action somehow.

But who says its populist emotionality? Who says it's not just common sense? Why should we give citizenship to people who aren't Canadian?  The reason to pass the law to change the rule is because the current rule makes no sense and it puts obligations on us, including financial obligations, on behalf of people who are not and should not be Canadians. Is there some emotionality in not wanting to be taken advantage of? I suppose, but curtailing the law seems entirely  logical and involves no downside to Canada I can see.

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2. You just said that your "feelings" can be defended "logically".  Think about that a second.

Would it make you feel better if I said my 'beliefs' about these things instead of my 'feelings' about these things? That is what I meant.

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3. Your side ?  Clearly your feelings are logical so you shouldn't HAVE to compromise - am I right ?

The compromise made by those who support development has already been made. It involves massive expense, environmental safety regulations native consultation, environmental assessments, public hearings and years of fitting the proposed development into the regulatory framework and ensuring all the T's are dotted and all the is are dotted.

Where is the similar compromise on the part of those with environmental concerns? Rachel Notley thought that if she did her best to appease environmentalists, going all in on CO2 reduction, inserting new environmental regulations and such, the environmentalists would cut her some slack. They didn't give her an inch. Their stand is not one iota different than it was before she and Trudeau got elected. No pipelines. Ever. Under an circumstances. For any reason. No matter the assurances and safeguards.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2018, 10:29:10 am »
But who says its populist emotionality? Who says it's not just common sense? Why should we give citizenship to people who aren't Canadian?  The reason to pass the law to change the rule is because the current rule makes no sense and it puts obligations on us, including financial obligations, on behalf of people who are not and should not be Canadians. Is there some emotionality in not wanting to be taken advantage of? I suppose, but curtailing the law seems entirely  logical and involves no downside to Canada I can see.

Ok, fair enough.  This is my subjectivity in action on my assessment.

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Would it make you feel better if I said my 'beliefs' about these things instead of my 'feelings' about these things? That is what I meant.

Beliefs, emotions, feelings are all valid and in fact are the basis for how we act and communicate more than rational thinking.  But they need to be recognized as separate areas even if they intersect in the end.

Our beliefs and irrationality interact with our principles and rational thinking, and words and actions come out.

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The compromise made by those who support development has already been made. It involves massive expense, environmental safety regulations native consultation, environmental assessments, public hearings and years of fitting the proposed development into the regulatory framework and ensuring all the T's are dotted and all the is are dotted.

Where is the similar compromise on the part of those with environmental concerns? Rachel Notley thought that if she did her best to appease environmentalists, going all in on CO2 reduction, inserting new environmental regulations and such, the environmentalists would cut her some slack. They didn't give her an inch. Their stand is not one iota different than it was before she and Trudeau got elected. No pipelines. Ever. Under an circumstances. For any reason. No matter the assurances and safeguards.

The compromise is that they drop objections to development, or at least enough of them do to allow the project to go forward.  As described some people will never compromise, for good or bad reasons.  Who knows why really ? Convincing them is more of a long term strategy.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2018, 12:22:12 pm »
So, in the UK, a man was arrested for rape - not for the first time. After which he decided to self-identify as a woman. And, of course, with all-due sensitivity to his/her newfound rights, he was then assigned to a women's prison.

Yes, a man with a still very much intact and functioning penis, accused of multiple rapes, was sent to a womens prison.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/why-was-a-transgender-rapist-put-in-a-womens-prison/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2018, 01:22:42 pm »
on behalf of people who are not and should not be Canadians

Birthright of ancestry over geography; time for all the European invaders to go home.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2018, 01:34:12 pm »
Birthright of ancestry over geography; time for all the European invaders to go home.

Yep, I guess I'll have to head back across the pond. I'm not so fond of neeps and tatties but I do like the whiskey. And I can fly the plane if need be. argus might be quite lonely in the future if he gets his way.
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Offline MH

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Re: Interesting news items
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2018, 08:12:57 pm »
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a34dme/this-guy-paints-the-sex-he-allegedly-has-with-aliens?utm_source=vicefbus

This man paints pictures of aliens having sex...

Having sex with him...

Based on his actual experiences...

Having sex with aliens...
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