Author Topic: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?  (Read 15839 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #495 on: July 11, 2022, 11:29:39 pm »
Where do the universal morals come from?

A sense of justice that traverses time and space?

There's lot of things that are morally relative though, but others that are true across cultures.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #496 on: July 12, 2022, 10:16:17 am »
Yes.

If nothing is true than everything can be permitted. Sexually molesting young children, for example, is universally wrong.  Raping disabled or elderly people?  Also universally wrong.

This is demonstrably untrue. Ancient Greece and Rome had their catamites, bacha bazi has been a cultural practice in Afghanistan for centuries, child marriage was a universal norm for centuries even in western cultures until relatively recently. This is evidence that universal values do not exist.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #497 on: July 12, 2022, 10:46:39 am »
A sense of justice that traverses time and space?


This is nonsensical.  How does a “sense”, which is in a human’s brain, traverse time and space?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #498 on: July 12, 2022, 09:40:55 pm »
This is demonstrably untrue. Ancient Greece and Rome had their catamites, bacha bazi has been a cultural practice in Afghanistan for centuries, child marriage was a universal norm for centuries even in western cultures until relatively recently. This is evidence that universal values do not exist.

Just because something exists in a culture doesn't mean it's generally accepted as "just" in that society..  Bacha bazi is a terrible example.  That's like saying westerners think pedophilia is ok because a lot of priests have done it, or **** etc.  Some practices exist only because people with power are able to get away with them, not because they are inherently morally just or even considered just by that society.

If you were a Canadian rep for the UN would you be ok with bacha bazi because "moral relativism"?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #499 on: July 13, 2022, 10:25:31 am »
Just because something exists in a culture doesn't mean it's generally accepted as "just" in that society..  Bacha bazi is a terrible example.  That's like saying westerners think pedophilia is ok because a lot of priests have done it, or **** etc.  Some practices exist only because people with power are able to get away with them, not because they are inherently morally just or even considered just by that society.

If you were a Canadian rep for the UN would you be ok with bacha bazi because "moral relativism"?


Moral relativism doesn't assert there's no such thing as right and wrong, only that what we consider right and wrong is shaped by specific social and cultural forces. And the abscence of universal ideas of right and wrong doesn't preclude making moral judgments.

As someone who has argued against tearing down statues of John A McDonald, I think you understand moral relativism better than you pretend to.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #500 on: July 13, 2022, 05:12:35 pm »
This is nonsensical.  How does a “sense”, which is in a human’s brain, traverse time and space?

Nothing? 

I thought it might be interesting, but I guess it was another vapid comment from Graham. Is he just parroting Peterson?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #501 on: July 14, 2022, 11:43:55 am »
This is also why i'm ok with discussing any topic whatsoever., in the pursuit of knowledge  I may disagree with a biological racist or a holocaust denier, but if they claim to have good evidence of why they're correct, then we shouldn't mind hearing the evidence.  If they are wrong then the evidence will clearly counter their claims, which can then be ignored.  There should be no ideas that are elevated to the level of "dogma".

Doesn't believe in moral relativism, but also doesn't apparently believe in facts.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #502 on: September 29, 2022, 01:58:06 pm »
Jordan Peterson Breaks Down in Tears When Asked About Olivia Wilde Calling Him a ‘Hero to the Incel Community’

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Jordan Peterson broke down in tears during an interview on “Piers Morgan Uncensored” (via Mediaite) when asked about Olivia Wilde referring to him as “a hero to the incel community.” Wilde was on her “Don’t Worry Darling” press tour when she revealed to Interview Magazine that Chris Pine’s villainous character in the film, Frank, is based on Peterson. Wilde called Peterson “this pseudo-intellectual hero to the incel community.”

“Sure. Why not?” Peterson said when Piers Morgan asked if Wilde’s assessment of him was true. “You know, people have been after me for a long time because I’ve been speaking to disaffected young men.”

Peterson then broke down into tears and said, “It’s very difficult to understand how demoralized people are, and certainly many young men are in that category. You get these casual insults, these incels — what do they mean? These men, they don’t know how to make themselves attractive to women who are very picky, and good for them. Women, like, be picky. That’s your gift, man. Demand high standards from your men. Fair enough. But all these men who are alienated, it’s like they’re lonesome and they don’t know what to do and everyone piles abuse on them.

Worth pointing out that nobody has a problem with lonely or alienated men; it's a big social problem! But incels are a specific type that blame women and society as a whole for their own failings, who feel they are owed attention and sex and sometimes go on murder sprees and that's why people hate them. In conclusion: more like Jordan PeTEARSon.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #503 on: September 29, 2022, 04:17:24 pm »
Jordan Peterson Breaks Down in Tears When Asked About Olivia Wilde Calling Him a ‘Hero to the Incel Community’

Worth pointing out that nobody has a problem with lonely or alienated men; it's a big social problem! But incels are a specific type that blame women and society as a whole for their own failings, who feel they are owed attention and sex and sometimes go on murder sprees and that's why people hate them. In conclusion: more like Jordan PeTEARSon.

You're a dumbass because JP specifically tells these types of men to not blame women and not to become bitter and resentful and rather look at improving themselves so women find them more appealing.

He should be their hero because he's giving them free counseling and trying to help them.  I assume he's crying because that's what you do when you're confronted with so many people lost and in such pain plus the many of them who reach out and thank him for helping them turn their lives around.  What an a-hole eh!
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #504 on: September 29, 2022, 04:28:15 pm »
You're a dumbass because JP specifically tells these types of men to not blame women and not to become bitter and resentful and rather look at improving themselves so women find them more appealing.

Maybe he should say it louder because the message doesn't seem to be getting across. Or maybe the message is getting garbled up with all his other anti-woman stuff (eg his support for a patriarchal social order).

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He should be their hero because he's giving them free counseling and trying to help them.  I assume he's crying because that's what you do when you're confronted with so many people lost and in such pain plus the many of them who reach out and thank him for helping them turn their lives around.  What an a-hole eh!

If you don't think the fact that the guy who is all about sitting up straight and being a strong man is constantly turning into a blubbering bag of wet tissue paper at the slightest provocation isn't extremely funny then you don't know from funny.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #505 on: September 29, 2022, 04:38:39 pm »
I think that I found some new terms I hate:
incel
Goes with woke and terf.

I think that terms that group people based on a single opinion they have aren't useful.

Single use slags... No no no...

Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #506 on: September 29, 2022, 05:42:05 pm »
I think that I found some new terms I hate:
incel
Goes with woke and terf.

I think that terms that group people based on a single opinion they have aren't useful.

Single use slags... No no no...

It's not based on an opinion though.

Interestingly enough, the ter's origins go back in the 1990s.

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A self-described late bloomer, she coined the term involuntary celibate in the late 1990s to describe her own experience of not having sex and not being in a relationship.

It soon snowballed into Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project, a simple, all-text website where she posted theories and articles as well as ran a mailing list. “I identified that there were a lot of people who were lonely and not really sure how to start dating,” she said. “They were kind of lacking those social skills and I had a lot of sympathy for that because I had been through the same situation.” The term was later shortened to “incel”.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #507 on: September 29, 2022, 06:30:38 pm »
Maybe he should say it louder because the message doesn't seem to be getting across. Or maybe the message is getting garbled up with all his other anti-woman stuff (eg his support for a patriarchal social order).

If you don't think the fact that the guy who is all about sitting up straight and being a strong man is constantly turning into a blubbering bag of wet tissue paper at the slightest provocation isn't extremely funny then you don't know from funny.

I don't remember seeing him supporting a "patriarchal social order" or being "anti- woman" lol.  He's for equal opportunity for women and men, he's just not for forcing equal outcomes.

I don't remember him saying men shouldn't cry.  No psychologist would advocate that.  He said stand up straight as a means to project confidence in yourself, not to avoid being effeminate, and he wasn't talking specifically about men.

If you'd like to misrepresent his arguments more please keep going.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #508 on: September 29, 2022, 07:36:16 pm »
I don't remember seeing him supporting a "patriarchal social order" or being "anti- woman" lol.  He's for equal opportunity for women and men, he's just not for forcing equal outcomes.

“The people who hold that our culture is an oppressive patriarchy, they don’t want to admit that the current hierarchy might be predicated on competence."

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I don't remember him saying men shouldn't cry. No psychologist would advocate that.  He said stand up straight as a means to project confidence in yourself, not to avoid being effeminate, and he wasn't talking specifically about men.

I didn't say he did, but there's no question he's a big believer in traditional masculinity and its norms. He says the idea of toxic masculinity is "a lie" and male aggression is innate. He's very much bound to some very, let's say, traditional ideas of masculinity and its expressions, but he leaks like a busted water fountain and I find that contrast to be quite funny, but I'm becoming inclined to think the crying this is actually a bit he's doing.

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If you'd like to misrepresent his arguments more please keep going.

Everything I claim is drawn from things he's said.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #509 on: September 29, 2022, 08:47:34 pm »
“The people who hold that our culture is an oppressive patriarchy, they don’t want to admit that the current hierarchy might be predicated on competence."

What did he mean by that? Is there a link to the rest of the text? I assume you just Googled "Jordan Peterson patriarchy" and that's the quote that came up, with no context. 

He believes some hierarchies are natural and just and doesn't believe that achieving perfect equality of outcome is a just goal.  He also doesn't believe that tyrannical hierarchies are just where people abuse their power.

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I didn't say he did, but there's no question he's a big believer in traditional masculinity and its norms. He says the idea of toxic masculinity is "a lie" and male aggression is innate. He's very much bound to some very, let's say, traditional ideas of masculinity and its expressions, but he leaks like a busted water fountain and I find that contrast to be quite funny, but I'm becoming inclined to think the crying this is actually a bit he's doing.

Everything I claim is drawn from things he's said.

I've never hard him say he believes men should follow some machismo stereotypical idea of masculinity or act like a tough guy.  He believes that men and women generally have inherent differences (and many similarities), in contrast to many feminists who believe in some odd androgynous worldview that claims all differences in male and female behavior is socially constructed/learned, though there's little to no evidence for this theory.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley