Author Topic: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?  (Read 15882 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #390 on: March 15, 2022, 03:25:39 pm »
I don't think so.  He's down on the culture of fundamentalist religion but generally a rationalist.

He has been in trouble for hosting problematic people to state their case on his show but I don't think he ascribes to the usual 'race baiting' stuff.

Eh, he's a fan of Charles Murray and thinks that differences in intelligence are down to racial/genetic differences despite the lack of scientific consensus around that conclusion.

Online Spike The Hike Shady

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9020
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #391 on: March 15, 2022, 03:38:10 pm »
Eh, he's a fan of Charles Murray and thinks that differences in intelligence are down to racial/genetic differences despite the lack of scientific consensus around that conclusion.
Complete nonsense.  You have no idea what you’re talking about.  Black Dog just needs to admit that he doesn’t know a thing about Sam Harris.  And trying to characterize Harris based on two hours of a podcast, when he’s done thousands of hours of podcasts is absurd.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 04:53:58 pm by Retro Shady »

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #392 on: March 15, 2022, 04:02:09 pm »


Here is his explanation... not really an excuse for 'exorcism' of the topic.    'Freedom of Speech' stuff.

I am not interested in the topic - the white right has a large percentage of the talking out there including him.

Online Spike The Hike Shady

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9020
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #393 on: March 15, 2022, 04:51:48 pm »


Here is his explanation... not really an excuse for 'exorcism' of the topic.    'Freedom of Speech' stuff.

I am not interested in the topic - the white right has a large percentage of the talking out there including him.
People shouldn’t have to apologize for talking to people they disagree with.  It’s just part of the bigger phenomenon known as cancel culture.

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #394 on: March 15, 2022, 05:28:15 pm »


Here is his explanation... not really an excuse for 'exorcism' of the topic. 'Freedom of Speech' stuff.

I am not interested in the topic - the white right has a large percentage of the talking out there including him.

lol, "I'm not really interested in the topic of racial differences in IQ which is why I had one of the leading proponents of scientific racism on my podcast."

Ezra Klein (a milquetoast liberal of whom I am no fan) absolutely demolished both these clowns.

I also can't get over the part where he's surprised that Murray was not a "golem," earnestly believes in his (Murray's) good intentions and strength of scholarship, which betrays both a child-like belief in monsters and a credulity towards the expertise a man who is not an expert in genetics or IQ, but a political scientist whose dabbling in those other fields has been resoundingly rejected by actual people within them.


Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #395 on: March 15, 2022, 05:30:15 pm »
Complete nonsense.  You have no idea what you’re talking about.  Black Dog just needs to admit that he doesn’t know a thing about Sam Harris.  And trying to characterize Harris based on two hours of a podcast, when he’s done thousands of hours of podcasts is absurd.

That's not true: I know one thing about Sam Harris: he's a fan of Charles Murray and thinks that differences in intelligence are down to racial/genetic differences despite the lack of scientific consensus around that conclusion.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10193
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #396 on: March 15, 2022, 09:27:10 pm »
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #397 on: March 16, 2022, 06:47:20 am »
Is he a fan?

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #399 on: March 16, 2022, 09:24:13 am »
People shouldn’t have to apologize for talking to people they disagree with.  It’s just part of the bigger phenomenon known as cancel culture.

Well there's no evidence Harris disagrees with Murray in this particular case. But to the larger point, I have no issue with someone talking to someone they disagree with with the express purpose of refuting their views, but platforming racists and conspiracy cranks, for example, and then just nodding along when they go off is reprehensible.

IMO, there's really nothing to be gained from talking to people with whom you disagree on fundamental questions.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12477
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #400 on: March 16, 2022, 10:22:13 am »
Isn't he?

Not from what I have read.  He was moved to host him out of an interest in free speech.

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #401 on: March 16, 2022, 10:26:49 am »
Not from what I have read.  He was moved to host him out of an interest in free speech.

But Harris agrees with him (or at least takes Murray's work at face value) and thinks he's a good scholar and person. Oh and he's called Murray "the most unfairly maligned person in my lifetime."

Let's put that aside, though, because i think the "free speech" angle here is a bunch of rot. Murray faced a ton of criticism and has been subject to deplatforming from a few speaking events IIRC. But he also publishes books that get lots of press (no doubt the controversy helps there), gets regular op-ed space in leading publications, and enjoys a well-paid and prominent sinecure at one of the biggest conservative think tanks in America. There's no way this guy has been "cancelled" or "silenced" or had his free speech rights infringed upon in any meaningful way. If Harris had him on in the interests of free speech, then his definition of free speech is "people should be able to say what they want without criticism or consequences," which is absurd.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 10:59:48 am by Black Dog »
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #402 on: March 16, 2022, 11:11:12 am »
lol, "I'm not really interested in the topic of racial differences in IQ which is why I had one of the leading proponents of scientific racism on my podcast."

Ezra Klein (a milquetoast liberal of whom I am no fan) absolutely demolished both these clowns.

I also can't get over the part where he's surprised that Murray was not a "golem," earnestly believes in his (Murray's) good intentions and strength of scholarship, which betrays both a child-like belief in monsters and a credulity towards the expertise a man who is not an expert in genetics or IQ, but a political scientist whose dabbling in those other fields has been resoundingly rejected by actual people within them.

I think you’re missing the point of why Harris talks about these topics.  It’s not because he’s a “fan”, or that he agrees with any of it.  It’s because he sees that these topics are taboo…. Not allowed to be discussed even within academic circles….

Your contention that Harris is a “fan” of these ideas shows a complete misunderstanding, or a deliberate misrepresentation, of Harris’ discussions with people like this.
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Black Dog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9079
  • Location: Deathbridge
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #403 on: March 16, 2022, 11:27:40 am »
I think you’re missing the point of why Harris talks about these topics. It’s not because he’s a “fan”, or that he agrees with any of it.  It’s because he sees that these topics are taboo…. Not allowed to be discussed even within academic circles….


Well that's bullshit too.

Quote
Your contention that Harris is a “fan” of these ideas shows a complete misunderstanding, or a deliberate misrepresentation, of Harris’ discussions with people like this.

I've addressed this is posts subsequent to the one you quoted here. I think the distinction between "enthusiastic proponent" of a given person/position and someone who simply offers a given person/position a platform without any pushback is one of degrees not kind.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 12:57:07 pm by Black Dog »

Online Spike The Hike Shady

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9020
Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #404 on: March 16, 2022, 11:31:59 am »
Well that's bullshit too.

I've addressed this is posts subsequent to the one you quoted here. I think the distinction between "enthusiastic proponent" of a given person/position and someone who simply offers a given person/position a platform is one of degrees not kind.
It’s not bullshit.  You’re arguments are though.  It’s important to have discussions on all kinds of topics with all kinds of people.  It doesn’t mean that one supports those people and their opinions.  Most grown ups can understand that.