Author Topic: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?  (Read 15829 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #315 on: January 22, 2022, 01:55:35 pm »
Ok you're a doctor now.

You don't have to be a doctor to know that depression and long term loss of sleep isn't something anyone gets from a single sip of cider.

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Well no, but I don't think feelings of sexual attraction automatically go away when you step through the office door, which was his point. 

No, his claim-and you agreed-is that women at work intentionally dress in a way to provoke sexual arousal. And now you're just shifting the goalposts because you know in your heart how insane that sounds.

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And he also states that men and women working together in the workplace is also a relatively new phenomena that has only been widespread the last 30-40 years, so we're still trying to figure this out amongst ourselves.

Men and women have been working together for far longer than that but also, 30-40 years is ample time to learn basic lessons like "don't sexually harass your colleagues".

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This is the 1 rule I don't quite agree with.  Arguments are valid or not valid based on their merit and not on the experience of the one making them.

On the other hand, what he is saying with this rule is that there are some people who want to change the entire structure of society, government, the economy etc and think they know what's best for everyone else when they don't even have any of their own s**t together and don't even know how to run their own house, let alone a society.  So he's not entirely wrong on that.  If your argument that Peterson can be put in this category well sure, he's not perfect and i don't agree with everything he says, and therefore should not run society which is why we have democracy rather than dictatorship.  We are all flawed, to various degrees.  The collective consensus is better at deciding things that 1 person.

Why should someone have to have their own life in order to want to see change in the world? That's moronic.

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Why is everyone desperate for this advice then?  These are basic rules of thumb society has abandoned because society thinks holding people's hands and wrapping them in bubble-wrap is the compassionate and most useful way to help people.

If no one follows the advice, including himself, then maybe the advice isn't very useful.

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His basic philosophy is:  stop coddling yourself and others, take responsibility for your life and your actions.  He's 100% correct, even if he always doesn't follow these rules himself, but he should follow them.

That's extremely stupid because it doesn't acknowledge people in different circumstances will require different approaches.

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Why is it relevant if it's still good advice?  Let's pretend he's a **** serial killer.  His advice is still good.  The Cosby Show was still funny despite Cosby being a rapist.  MLK was still correct on so many points despite sleeping around on his wife.

It's not good advice either.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #316 on: January 22, 2022, 01:57:25 pm »
Are you?

He never said he allows follows all of his rules all of the time.  It's easier to give good advice than to follow it yourself.

Again, let's just assume he's a mass rapist **** murderer who doesn't clean his room and is coked out on meth.  So what?  I never said we should build statues of the man, i'm saying he has valuable things to say.  If you would open your ears for 2 seconds maybe you'd hear them.

His useful stuff is banal, unoriginal and overshadowed by all the other garbage that spews out of his mouth. Get a better hero.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 03:47:09 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #317 on: January 22, 2022, 02:33:15 pm »
So far so good 🙂

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #318 on: January 22, 2022, 06:02:04 pm »
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #319 on: January 22, 2022, 06:02:48 pm »


Is there a part in the video you'd like me to watch?  I can't watch 10 mins.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #320 on: January 22, 2022, 06:15:49 pm »
It's not necessarily that he doesn't know about these things, admittedly. I'm sure he's aware of them. It's that he used his institutional and professional credibility to talk about subjects he's not an expert in as though he was. People who agree with his mind-numbing drivel love to point out how he's a professor and an expert without actually knowing what his expertise is in or how far out of his element he actually is. It's like bringing your car to a dentist for eye exam when listening to him talk about those other subjects. Yet folks will say, "but he's a doctor" as if it has any relevance in the domains he speaks on. Further still, he's just giving commentary on these topics opinions. His bullshit isn't academically rigorous at all, which is why publishes popular media and not actual studies about the nonsense he's on about.

Right, I agree, his political opinions are his own opinions, take it or leave it.  Politically he's just a guy with some opinions.  People can agree or disagree with them on a point-by-point basis just like everyone else.  He's the Noam Chomsky of the right.  Noam has no expertise in politics academically.  But he's well-read in terms of politics, moreso than Peterson.  But I also think Jordan and people like him on the right sometimes make good arguments that are contrary to the progressive ideological zietgiest that dominates the mainstream like the left-leaning media and education systems etc., and we need to hear these argument.  If someone disagrees with them fine.  There's also a bunch of poor arguments politically that Jordan makes that I don't agree with.

If you want to me to say Jordan is an infallible intellectual God who is 100% right 100% time i'm not going to argue that.  If you want to be to say the man is 100% wrong 100% of the time I'm not going to do that either.  Neither statement is true.  People on the left suffer from Peterson derangement syndrome, similar to Trump derangement syndrome.  If 50% of what they do or say is bad, that doesn't mean the other 50% is bad by association.  If people opened their ears instead of only listening to their hatred they might learn something.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #321 on: January 22, 2022, 06:26:47 pm »
You don't have to be a doctor to know that depression and long term loss of sleep isn't something anyone gets from a single sip of cider.

Yes actually you do.

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No, his claim-and you agreed-is that women at work intentionally dress in a way to provoke sexual arousal. And now you're just shifting the goalposts because you know in your heart how insane that sounds.

I typed out a point, but you won't care, you'll just say something ridiculous because your ego won't ever concede any logical point anyways and your anger will double-down.  Fight on, culture warrior.

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That's extremely stupid because it doesn't acknowledge people in different circumstances will require different approaches.

Yes he does.  He also says there's a limit to taking on responsibility and where it can make you unhealthy.  Do you think a PhD in clinical psychology would advise a client who is a cancer patient with no energy to take on an extra job?  But you won't concede a point because of your ego and anger, so please what quip will you respond with next?  I can't wait!

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It's not good advice either.

Feel free to take none of his advice, I don't care.  This is a useless discussion and i'm ending it.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #322 on: January 22, 2022, 06:29:52 pm »
His useful stuff is banal, unoriginal and overshadowed by all the other garbage that spews out of his mouth. Get a better hero.

The proof is in the pudding.  He's helped millions, he gets tons of letters and people come up to him at his events.  You are objectively wrong.  If this bothers you that he's helped so many people, maybe you should think about why that is because there's obviously something wrong with you.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #323 on: January 22, 2022, 08:38:55 pm »
I can’t take anyone seriously who thought an all-meat diet was good for one’s health.  The man is clearly an idiot.

The stuff he says in interviews should eliminate him from giving any advice on anything.  His fanboys lap it up though!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-family-meat-cleanse/567613/
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #324 on: January 22, 2022, 09:46:20 pm »
Is there a part in the video you'd like me to watch?  I can't watch 10 mins.

In the first two minutes.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #325 on: January 22, 2022, 11:16:32 pm »
I can’t take anyone seriously who thought an all-meat diet was good for one’s health.  The man is clearly an idiot.

The stuff he says in interviews should eliminate him from giving any advice on anything.  His fanboys lap it up though!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-family-meat-cleanse/567613/

His daughter had food allergies she didn't know about and an elimination diet apparently helped all sorts of her health problems.  So he tried trial and error of eliminating certain foods from his diet and apparently helped him.  I think he's really sensitive or allergic to certain foods like his daughter.  I don't think he ever told others to eat only meat.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #326 on: January 23, 2022, 01:20:00 pm »
Yes actually you do.

No you don't.

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I typed out a point, but you won't care, you'll just say something ridiculous because your ego won't ever concede any logical point anyways and your anger will double-down.  Fight on, culture warrior.

Take the L.

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Yes he does.  He also says there's a limit to taking on responsibility and where it can make you unhealthy.Do you think a PhD in clinical psychology would advise a client who is a cancer patient with no energy to take on an extra job?  But you won't concede a point because of your ego and anger, so please what quip will you respond with next?  I can't wait!

I fins it fascinating that throughout this discussion, I and others have presented numerous examples of this guy being a whackadoodle and your whole defense of him is "he's popular and has some good ideas" which doesn't address the critiques people are making at all. Also you keep talking about "oh you just need to listen" assuming we haven't done so already.

The proof is in the pudding.  He's helped millions, he gets tons of letters and people come up to him at his events.  You are objectively wrong.  If this bothers you that he's helped so many people, maybe you should think about why that is because there's obviously something wrong with you.

Yeah lots of people who are in cults talk about how being in a cult helped them become better people.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 01:39:17 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #327 on: January 23, 2022, 01:34:52 pm »
The proof is in the pudding.  He's helped millions, he gets tons of letters and people come up to him at his events.   

Leaving aside my PDS - yes I can accept that millions love his self-help.

Now... why does he need to comment on legal implications of C16 (incorrectly), Climate Change, and other topics that are not in his field ?  And why do people treat him like a personality in such respects and not an academic with expertise in one field ?

This is what Don Cherry did - a long-retired hockey coach who lectured people about sociology. 

Part of the problem in this country is that we have no public intellectuals, and we elevate folksy celebrities to that level.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #328 on: January 23, 2022, 01:40:15 pm »
Leaving aside my PDS - yes I can accept that millions love his self-help.

Now... why does he need to comment on legal implications of C16 (incorrectly), Climate Change, and other topics that are not in his field ?  And why do people treat him like a personality in such respects and not an academic with expertise in one field ?

This is what Don Cherry did - a long-retired hockey coach who lectured people about sociology. 

Part of the problem in this country is that we have no public intellectuals, and we elevate folksy celebrities to that level.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #329 on: January 23, 2022, 06:26:12 pm »
Leaving aside my PDS - yes I can accept that millions love his self-help.

Now... why does he need to comment on legal implications of C16 (incorrectly), Climate Change, and other topics that are not in his field ?  And why do people treat him like a personality in such respects and not an academic with expertise in one field ?

I guess he comments because he has a right to?  Like why do you and I and Jimmy Kimmell and Jon Stewart and the ladies on The View and every celeb/user on Twitter comment on social issues?  Because they can.

I guess he was also concerned c-16 or whatever was going to "compel speech". I still have no idea if he was right or wrong on that.   The most important thing is it started a discussion on the bill instead of all Canadians lying down like submissive cowards as is the nature of many of us and just accepting our govs social engineering because speaking out would be "offensive".  I think it's extremely important to talk about issues we're normally afraid to publicly.  So even if Peterson is wrong on a slew of things at least he's brave enough to publicly start the convo.

Also, why is it only a big deal when someone on the right says something misinformed if not stupid?

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This is what Don Cherry did - a long-retired hockey coach who lectured people about sociology.

How does this differ from all of the leftwing Canadian celebs or celebs in general who lecture people about sociology and say stupid stuff?  Because they're on someone's side of the culture war, or they agree with them?

Millions have tried to destroy one of the few Canadians who isn't a journalist who happens to have a different point of view from the progressive paradigm, and it caused him to be prescribed anti-anxiety meds which are classified as narcotics which he developed a physical dependency to which ruined him when he tried to get off them and almost killed him.  So yay?

Maybe a critical thinker wouldn't treat the man as a God or a devil and consider some of the valuable things he has to say while rejecting the poor arguments.  Imagine that!!
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley