Author Topic: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?  (Read 1287 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #210 on: July 23, 2021, 05:47:15 pm »
There are plenty of people who oppose progressives. 

He is touted as the voice we need right now.  Maybe that's not his fault.  But we need someone to unify.

But then again, the progressive voices are going to win out anyway,. Via revenge of the cradle.

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #211 on: July 23, 2021, 06:23:58 pm »
What are they going to win?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #212 on: July 23, 2021, 10:44:33 pm »
What are they going to win?

The culture.

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #213 on: July 24, 2021, 12:24:16 pm »
The culture.

Which they will have to live with.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #214 on: July 24, 2021, 02:14:34 pm »

1. There's no point in convincing you of anything here because it's pointless.  You have a long record of defending the social and cultural positions of whatever we're told is "correct" to us by the mainstream politically correct do-gooders. 

2. You have been "socially conditioned":  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conditioning  If everyone were this compliant to authority it would be a gloomy world indeed.  Maybe myself and kimmy and Peterson and whomever else don't want to just shut up and obey.

1. Weird take.  It's like "you have a long history of agreeing with the mainstream whether it's vaccines, or believing that Trump lost the election" talks about who agrees with your opinions, not whether they can be justified.

2. I didn't write him off entirely,  I only assessed his overall worth as an intellectual.  You say "no, he's a self-help guy" and I say "ok, fine well he's better at that anyway".  And now here you say "he's a rebel and pisses people off" as though that is worth anything on its own.  It sounds pretty immature to me. 

What is the point of discussing social and cultural matters ?  To come to a mutual understanding... to move past these things.. it is NOT to define entrenched camps that can snipe and each other back and forth.  There's no precedent for us deciding to do that, yet in the culture wars media keeps framing things that way so that they can prosper from facilitating the fight.

At this point, anybody who is sick of pointless fighting (dicks in spas ? really ? we can't work that one out with a few towels ? some signs ?  list of rules ? ) should put a time or space limit on people who can't work it out. 

Peterson's initial framing of the disagreements around pronounce etc. could have been of great service to fixing the mire we're in now.  So, yes, I guess I do blame him for opting to become whatever he is now.

Also, if he was a drug addict or whatever it kind of negates his whole "lead by example...  work on yourself" schtick down to the nub.

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #215 on: July 24, 2021, 02:15:48 pm »
Which they will have to live with.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they won't. 

And... those other people who complain about Communism and group think today mostly have no idea.

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #216 on: July 24, 2021, 03:27:49 pm »
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they won't. 

And... those other people who complain about Communism and group think today mostly have no idea.

Group think is for lazy people who don't want to think for themselves.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #217 on: July 24, 2021, 03:41:11 pm »
Group think is for lazy people who don't want to think for themselves.

Sure, except it's also a necessary element of social cohesion.  If people didn't think police had authority, laws were valid, or voting mattered we would have problems.  This is happening in the US with the Qanon and Sovereign Citizen movement.

I was going to write 'mob thinking' but wanted to be more polite.  Except, I shouldn't be.  Some of the thinking I read from thoughtful young progressives is illiberal and vengeful. 

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #218 on: July 24, 2021, 03:48:15 pm »
It doesn't have to be Q or Sovereign for group think to have a downside. The line between group and mob is a very blurred one. We need to be careful that inclusiveness doesn't result in just replacing one excluded group with another. All change isn't progress.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #219 on: July 24, 2021, 03:56:31 pm »
It doesn't have to be Q or Sovereign for group think to have a downside. The line between group and mob is a very blurred one. We need to be careful that inclusiveness doesn't result in just replacing one excluded group with another. All change isn't progress.

It's not even that.  The millennial generation have been poorly served by our system.  They will not abide by anything that the older generation holds precious.

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #220 on: July 24, 2021, 04:07:21 pm »
It's not even that.  The millennial generation have been poorly served by our system.  They will not abide by anything that the older generation holds precious.

That's not what I'm talking about. Eventually every generation has to take responsibility for its own mistakes, it can't keep blaming dead people.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #221 on: July 24, 2021, 04:15:39 pm »
That's not what I'm talking about. Eventually every generation has to take responsibility for its own mistakes, it can't keep blaming dead people.

What mistakes do you think the millennials have made ?  Given that they are only starting to show their political power, I am expecting you to say 'none'.

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #222 on: July 24, 2021, 04:55:31 pm »
What mistakes do you think the millennials have made ?  Given that they are only starting to show their political power, I am expecting you to say 'none'.

If they are only starting to show their power they are only starting to make their mistakes.

Every generation thinks it is smarter than the one before and the one that came after.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #223 on: July 24, 2021, 07:04:02 pm »
What mistakes?

I don't think any of the issues that are on the table assume any superior or interior intelligence.  Were the low tuitions of the past a dumb policy?  Economic policy involves winners and losers and the millennials are on the Short End.

As for identity politics, as I say it's more important to come up with a compromise and move on

Offline wilber

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #224 on: July 25, 2021, 12:40:00 am »
What mistakes?

I don't think any of the issues that are on the table assume any superior or interior intelligence.  Were the low tuitions of the past a dumb policy?  Economic policy involves winners and losers and the millennials are on the Short End.

As for identity politics, as I say it's more important to come up with a compromise and move on

Every generation makes mistakes. Humans are humans and all are a product of their time. To think one has some kind of moral superiority is just arrogance. Millennials may have got the short end of the stick but no one intended to put them there, certainly not their parents or grand parents.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC