Author Topic: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?  (Read 16061 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #615 on: December 13, 2022, 03:55:54 pm »
Just because you don't like his politics doesn't make him an academic failure.  He was a professor.  He taught a class.  That's not being a failure anymore than Justin Trudeau is an academic failure teaching his drama class.

There's no grifter dick you won't ride, huh.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #616 on: December 13, 2022, 04:17:38 pm »
Excuses.  He was an academic failure before that all happened.

He has a PhD.  Many PhD's kept giving him grades good enough to become a PhD.  Academic journals keep publishing his research.  His PhD isn't in political science.  He has an undergrad in poli-sci i believe.  If he was wrong about Marx and nature, which is a fair point, that doesn't make him "a fraud", it makes him incorrect on that point.  Academics are allowed to be wrong.  Marx was wrong about a lot of things too, and right about a lot of things.

Peterson is not much of an academic authority on politics.  He has just modestly educated opinions, he's a culture warrior.  Take him or leave him.  You're a left-leaning type, as is Black Dog, we get it.  Some of his political opinions are backed up by his actual expertise, which is psychology, I take those opinions more seriously because he cites the research in his arguments.  I don't even know why people care about his opinions on Marxism.  A poli-sci PhD academic should not be an activist on whatever they're researching, confirmation bias sets in.  JP is a political activist.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #617 on: December 13, 2022, 04:29:23 pm »
He has a PhD.  Many PhD's kept giving him grades good enough to become a PhD.  Academic journals keep publishing his research.  His PhD isn't in political science.  He has an undergrad in poli-sci i believe.  If he was wrong about Marx and nature, which is a fair point, that doesn't make him "a fraud", it makes him incorrect on that point.  Academics are allowed to be wrong.  Marx was wrong about a lot of things too, and right about a lot of things.

He's not an academic anymore.

Quote
Peterson is not much of an academic authority on politics.  He has just modestly educated opinions, he's a culture warrior.  Take him or leave him.  You're a left-leaning type, as is Black Dog, we get it.  Some of his political opinions are backed up by his actual expertise, which is psychology, I take those opinions more seriously because he cites the research in his arguments.  I don't even know why people care about his opinions on Marxism.  A poli-sci PhD academic should not be an activist on whatever they're researching, confirmation bias sets in. JP is a political activist.

He's a bloody loon is what he is.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #618 on: December 13, 2022, 05:37:45 pm »
Just because you don't like his politics doesn't make him an academic failure.  He was a professor.  He taught a class.  That's not being a failure anymore than Justin Trudeau is an academic failure teaching his drama class.

Sorry, read the posts above and his faceplant on Marxism.

That's the reason he is ridiculous.  If you forgot, I was initially hopeful he would provide guidance on the issue of pronouns and rights.

Offline After 9 years of Trudeau Shady

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #619 on: December 13, 2022, 05:43:04 pm »
Sorry, read the posts above and his faceplant on Marxism.

That's the reason he is ridiculous.  If you forgot, I was initially hopeful he would provide guidance on the issue of pronouns and rights.
What does him being wrong about Marxism have to do with him being a Phd, a clinical psychologist etc?  You’re not making any sense.  Somebody can have an opinion outside of their field of study, and be wrong about it.  This is a sophomoric standard.  We get it, you don’t like the guy.  You do the same thing for Elon Musk.  It seems to be an unconscious bias you have.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #620 on: December 13, 2022, 06:30:47 pm »
He has a PhD.  Many PhD's kept giving him grades good enough to become a PhD.  Academic journals keep publishing his research.  His PhD isn't in political science.  He has an undergrad in poli-sci i believe.  If he was wrong about Marx and nature, which is a fair point, that doesn't make him "a fraud", it makes him incorrect on that point.  Academics are allowed to be wrong.  Marx was wrong about a lot of things too, and right about a lot of things.

Peterson is not much of an academic authority on politics.  He has just modestly educated opinions, he's a culture warrior.  Take him or leave him.  You're a left-leaning type, as is Black Dog, we get it.  Some of his political opinions are backed up by his actual expertise, which is psychology, I take those opinions more seriously because he cites the research in his arguments.  I don't even know why people care about his opinions on Marxism.  A poli-sci PhD academic should not be an activist on whatever they're researching, confirmation bias sets in.  JP is a political activist.

He's not a fraud because he's wrong.  He's a fraud because he can't execute the basics of mounting a thesis.


Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #621 on: December 13, 2022, 06:33:01 pm »
What does him being wrong about Marxism have to do with him being a Phd, a clinical psychologist etc?  You’re not making any sense.  Somebody can have an opinion outside of their field of study, and be wrong about it.  This is a sophomoric standard.  We get it, you don’t like the guy.  You do the same thing for Elon Musk.  It seems to be an unconscious bias you have.

See the post above.

It's not that I disagree at all.  He quoted a text that isn't anything but a pamphlet.  Then he says that Marx doesn't mention nature.

He actually MISSED Marx's entire volume of work.  He didn't even know about it.  Because he didn't look.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #622 on: December 13, 2022, 06:33:52 pm »
I explained you guys already several times what the problem is. And I told you that I was actually hoping he would be a kind of intellectual, moral leader... Which is what I had heard he was. Instead he was a divisive clown.


Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #623 on: December 13, 2022, 07:06:18 pm »
He's not a fraud because he's wrong.  He's a fraud because he can't execute the basics of mounting a thesis.

I think that's a very gross overgeneralization based on one incorrect point.  And he can present a thesis just fine, but this one in particular doesn't seem to have the evidence to back it up.  There are other things I've disagreed with him on politically.  A PhD in social science will know how to make an argument.  His research here is lazy.  He's just kind of mouthing off with assumptions that aren't true.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #624 on: December 13, 2022, 07:14:19 pm »
I explained you guys already several times what the problem is. And I told you that I was actually hoping he would be a kind of intellectual, moral leader... Which is what I had heard he was. Instead he was a divisive clown.

I think what he's trying to do is give counter arguments against many widely held assumptions, mainly progressive-leaning, that we generally believe as true, and some we have for decades.  There are very few academic types doing this, so he has a role.  He is a culture warrior on the right.  He's not trying to be the calm voice of reason that you seek.  It would be nice to have an celeb academic Bill Maher type to help lead us through this divide.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #625 on: December 13, 2022, 07:18:26 pm »
I think it's good for someone to bring forward arguments that go against the progressive zeitgeist of the last 60 years, and bring new ideas and perspectives that aren't just from people like Trump or Tucker Carlson.  I get that this is a threat to Black Dog's worldview, and even MH's worldview, but that's the whole point.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #626 on: December 13, 2022, 07:29:30 pm »
12 Rules for Life.  Rule #5 is for Michael and Easy.  Not sure how much here applies to your issues or not, but it's a common problem i've seen especially from nice people by nature like MH.  Remember, he's a clinical psychologist:

https://www.shortform.com/blog/rule-5-do-not-let-your-children-do-anything-that-makes-you-dislike-them-jordan-peterson/
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #627 on: December 13, 2022, 09:37:29 pm »
1. I think that's a very gross overgeneralization based on one incorrect point. 
2. And he can present a thesis just fine, but this one in particular doesn't seem to have the evidence to back it up. 
3. There are other things I've disagreed with him on politically. 
4. A PhD in social science will know how to make an argument.  His research here is lazy.  He's just kind of mouthing off with assumptions that aren't true.
1. It's another example.  Look at his debate with Zizek.  Zizek didn't want to challenge him, but when he did he asked simply for one thing: a cite.  Peterson froze.  This is what he does over and over.  He is a fraud.

2. He spews opinions.  And that's fine for what it is.  So does Alex Jones, Kanye West and I wouldn't call them frauds.

3. You can't or shouldn't call someone a 'fraud' based on whether you agree with them or not.

4. Yes, you're starting to get it.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #628 on: December 13, 2022, 09:40:31 pm »
12 Rules for Life.  Rule #5 is for Michael and Easy.  Not sure how much here applies to your issues or not, but it's a common problem i've seen especially from nice people by nature like MH.  Remember, he's a clinical psychologist:

https://www.shortform.com/blog/rule-5-do-not-let-your-children-do-anything-that-makes-you-dislike-them-jordan-peterson/

We already talked about his 'self help' career.  People want to listen to him, or Oprah, or go to church to make themselves happy and that's clear.  Who are we to begrudge that ?

But when you step up to the mic and say "let me tell you how to fix the world" and paint yourself as an expert and try to get followers then I have a problem with that.

When you try to tell people that Marxists, or climate change activists are a problem you are no longer a self-help person and the rules change.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: How about a Discussion on Jordan Peterson?
« Reply #629 on: December 13, 2022, 09:41:49 pm »
I think it's good for someone to bring forward arguments that go against the progressive zeitgeist of the last 60 years, and bring new ideas and perspectives that aren't just from people like Trump or Tucker Carlson.  I get that this is a threat to Black Dog's worldview, and even MH's worldview, but that's the whole point.

And that should be part of the evolution of the Zeitgeist: reviving what was good in the old ways.  He's not doing that, and he's not even making his case properly or even honestly imo.