Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 41309 times)

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2115 on: October 17, 2021, 04:04:20 pm »
I don't believe washrooms are the issue as stalls guarantee a level of privacy. The issue is changing areas where women undress - including biological males.


Yes, I understand it could make people uncomfortable, but given that there are changing rooms and nobody NEEDS to get naked in the common area, I ask once again...

Which do you think will create more violence, trans women using men's areas or women's?

Trans women are going to exist and men will always have some bad apples who will creep into women's spaces or beat up trans women for existing.  Which one do you think will cause more harm?

I think if you were being honest with yourself, you'd admit that you just don't really care about their safety.  Perhaps victim-blaming for being trans? 

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:06:02 pm by BC_cheque »

Offline eyeball

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2116 on: October 17, 2021, 08:12:52 pm »
I don't believe washrooms are the issue as stalls guarantee a level of privacy. The issue is changing areas where women undress - including biological males.
The real issue here is vulnerability and privacy is only one of many things  people use to deal with it. Security, another measure, is pretty scant in most public washrooms given the sort of latches assumed to be enough to assure privacy in them.

I would think between many transexual women feeling vulnerable going into men's public washrooms and feeling pilloried when using women's public washrooms that washrooms will simply have to change to accommodate.

There is also the fact that going to the bathroom can sometimes be socially awkward for some people especially for those where sex or sexuality factors into their awkwardness. They're just supposed to suck it up and get with thr program?  Good luck with that.

As for me I'll never forget the time I came out of a stall in a public washroom at Seatac airport.  It was completely empty except for the 3 Homeland security dudes with machine guns and curly little wires coming out their ears. They glanced into the stall to see if I'd left anything worse than a stink bomb behind and then followed me out to the parking lot door.  So yeah, I kinda get the washroom vulnerability thingy.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 08:14:40 pm by eyeball »

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2117 on: October 18, 2021, 09:14:23 am »
That's as dumb as dirt.
Given how misogynistic your views are that's quite the joke. Did your mom not like you or something? Get beat up by a girl in high school and never lived it down?

F*ck you.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2118 on: October 18, 2021, 09:22:38 am »


If Merager gets acquitted, we both know that there will be a bazillion wokies saying "YEAH! Trans rights! Suck it, TERFs!", and we both know that there will be no wokies who will spend a moment, publicly at least, pondering the fairness of a law that allows a repeat sex offender to self-identify himself into spaces where women and girls are naked and vulnerable.

Book mark this, and if I am wrong come back and throw it in my face.

Yet more evidence your brain had been rotted from too much time Online. You can find anyone saying just about anything about anything out there. Who gives a ****?

Oh and a note all the incidents on Meager's rap sheet before this actually preceded California's self-id law, which came into effect in 2019. Seems like they were quite capable of getting into women's spaces without the woke mob pushing self id laws.

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Nice try, but no. I didn't ask why they *can't* protest it.  I asked why they *shouldn't* protest it.

You (and Slate, and Washington Post, and The Daily Beast, and The Guardian, and The Daily Dot, and Insider, and probably other supposedly reputable media outlets that I'm forgetting) clearly expressed the view that these women *shouldn't* have been protesting. So instead of weaseling out of it, lay that out for us.

"No one is saying those women can't protest against self-ID on demand, we're just saying that if they do they're Nazis and fascists and literally killing trans people."
  -you (and Slate, and Washington Post, and The Daily Beast, and The Guardian, and The Daily Dot, and Insider, and probably other supposedly reputable media outlets that I'm forgetting.)


Usually people use quotes to denote something people actually said, not some hobgoblin they invented.

When you hold a rally and fascists show up, maybe you should ask yourself why what you're doing appeals to fascists.

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No. Concern trolling is when you and your team briefly, for a week or so in February, pretended as if you cared about women's privacy, when it was briefly useful in arguing against laws that keep dudes from competing in women's sports.  Now that that ship has sailed, you're way past pretending to care about women's privacy, and all in favor of Fucken Darren being able to self-identify into the women's changing room and showers.

(pro-tip: if a WokeBro says he cares about women's privacy, he is lying.)

Tu quoque fallacy. Stick to the point, which is you are happy to welcome far right organizations into the fold and take their money, but when the far right -ahem- just happen to show up at your events and start stabbing people, well you can't backpeddle fast enough.

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I'm not concern-trolling when I complain that woke idiots keep handing right-wingers ammo to shoot them with. I don't support repealing gay rights back to the 1980s. I don't support repealing women's rights back to the 1950s. But that's what is going to happen if you guys get your way, because you guys on the far left keep pushing policies that are completely disconnected from sane people in the real world.  Woke ideology is far less popular than wokies think it is. I've talked about this in another thread. I'll bump that thread with some new material later this weekend.

I am grateful to the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedom (the right-wing religious law group) for defending the aestheticians, pro-bono, against Jessica Yaniv's vexatious HRC claims. I think that was outstanding, excellent, fantastic, amazing, tremendous, I can't find enough superlatives to put on that. And as a homosexual atheist, I hate having to applaud JCCF.

And I supported the Alliance Defending Freedom taking on the lawsuit of the female Connecticut athletes who challenged the Connecticut athletics policy that required them to compete against dudes. And as a homosexual atheist, I hate having to applaud ADF.

You're trying to draw a link between those two cases and the Proud Boys showing up uninvited at a protest. The link you're trying to draw fails. The connection you're trying to make is complete bullshit.

There is a link, you pretending that you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

It's funny too because there actually is a direct link between Andy Ngo the "journalist" who has been on the Wi Spa beat and the Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer goons.

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And again, what you're selling here is bullshit. Your effort to equate supporting two meaningful legal efforts that had significance for women's legal rights with a bunch of goons showing up uninvited at a protest against an unjust law fails.  You're attempting a sleight of hand, and it fails.

I really can't imagine you're actually as stupid as you're acting here. Maybe you are and you genuinely can't see the link here. Here's a hint: you can't fan the flames of the culture war bullshit and then whinge when you get burned.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 03:19:14 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2119 on: October 18, 2021, 09:25:13 am »
And again, the notion that anybody who isn't fully on board with Team Woke is "the far right" is disconnected from reality.  People might agree with that in whatever bubble you inhabit, but that's not the real world.

Darren Merager is clearly a pervert; the repeat convictions for indecent exposure make the point. Reminder, he's also currently on trial for hanging out in the girl's locker room when a highschool girls' water polo team was changing. Implying that this could be exploited by perverts reinforces the point that it's made to be exploited by perverts.

You and the trans rights activists are cheerleading for a law that allows Darren Merager to self-identify himself into the girl's changing rooms.

 -k

If we're playing that game, i can only assume you jumped up and did a victory lap when you read this story.

Again: this person was seemingly creeping into bathrooms before there was a self-id law on the books.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 03:19:39 pm by Black Dog »

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2120 on: October 18, 2021, 09:30:14 am »
That's pretty scummy. But rather than play the indignation card or homophobia card, I will move on to this:

And what I told you at the time is that the issue is not peformative femininity, the issue is the OBVIOUSLY MALE part of the equation.

You told me that I've probably shared a washroom with some trans woman without even knowing and posted pictures of Contrapoints and that trans SI model and whoever else to illustrate the point that some trans women are highly passing.

And highly passing is the key point here.

Some trans women are highly passing and could easily enter female spaces without causing any anxiety whatsoever. Contrapoints or Blaire White or Nichole Maines or that SI model could enter a women's washroom without causing anybody any anxiety.

But trans right activists aren't fighting for the right for Contrapoints or Blaire White to enter women's spaces, because Contrapoints and Blaire White can easily enter women's spaces any time they want. They are "stealth mode"; few people if any would take a second look. Blaire White can go into any women's washroom anywhere any time she wants to. She doesn't need wokies to fight for her on that front.

What trans rights actives are actually fighting for is for trans women that look like Charlotte Clymer or Morgane Oger or Jessica Yaniv or Darren Merager to enter women's spaces. What wokies want is for "women" who are obviously male to be allowed into women's spaces without objection.

Is there evidence that passing trans people are less likely to be creeps than ones who don't pass your test for looking sufficiently feminine? Because I thought the issue you had was safety, not "causing anxiety."
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 03:20:02 pm by Black Dog »

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2121 on: October 18, 2021, 03:50:45 pm »
I think if you were being honest with yourself, you'd admit that you just don't really care about their safety.  Perhaps victim-blaming for being trans?

How quickly you've decided for me that I dislike transpeople so much I don't care if some **** beat them up! Is it because anyone who dares to question that transgendered women belong in each and every single place where women consider their own must hate them? This really doesn't seem to leave the slightest option for compromise. Given I've already expressed an acceptance of them going into women's washrooms and already expressed what is admittedly a guesstimate based on human nature on whether transpeople would even want to get naked around those of the opposite gender I would have thought you'd put a bit more intelligent thought into this.But apparently, the world is all black and white to you.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2122 on: October 18, 2021, 04:02:02 pm »
The real issue here is vulnerability and privacy is only one of many things  people use to deal with it. Security, another measure, is pretty scant in most public washrooms given the sort of latches assumed to be enough to assure privacy in them.

I get that. But I also get that this sense of security and privacy is far lower for the sex which nature has generally made much smaller and weaker than the other while also making them lifelong targets for the instinctive sexual hunger guiding that other sex. And a lot of people here don't seem to. From the time they can understand language little girls are guided by parental and authority figures into the understanding no one must ever see what's under their skirts. This is not an attitude generally taken with little boys. And even as we mature that holds to a degree. Do teenage boys fear girls passing around naked pictures of them? Not so much. Nor, as Kimmy points out, do they check themselves in the mirror before going out to make sure their outfit doesn't make them too sexy for the occasion. Why would they? Fear of rude/crude comments and getting hit on by girls and women?

What I'm getting at is womens need of privacy from being seen by men is more psychologically important than the latter.

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I would think between many transexual women feeling vulnerable going into men's public washrooms and feeling pilloried when using women's public washrooms that washrooms will simply have to change to accommodate.

Remember that this question came up over a biological make undressing in front of women. As I already wrote, I don't think that's an issue that's going to come up among real transgendered women, not the sane ones. I don't think it's an issue that comes up in your average washroom either.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2123 on: October 18, 2021, 04:02:45 pm »

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2124 on: October 18, 2021, 04:11:02 pm »
I really can't imagine you're actually as stupid as you're acting here. Maybe you are and you genuinely can't see the link here. Here's a hint: you can't fan the flames of the culture war bullshit and then whinge when you get burned.

The amazing lack of self-awareness you're showing here! You're blowing on those flames as hard as you can and now you're expressing indignation when some people object. The proud boys are a result of you and your side's actions. They were birthed by ANTIFA, a group I'm quite certain you are thrilled to support. The division in the US is fanned by the effort of you wokies to bring tribalism back into society and make it the basis for all political and social decisions, rules and laws.


Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2125 on: October 18, 2021, 04:14:07 pm »
The amazing lack of self-awareness you're showing here! You're blowing on those flames as hard as you can and now you're expressing indignation when some people object. The proud boys are a result of you and your side's actions. They were birthed by ANTIFA, a group I'm quite certain you are thrilled to support. The division in the US is fanned by the effort of you wokies to bring tribalism back into society and make it the basis for all political and social decisions, rules and laws.

same energy:



You should also know that the Proud Boys initially had nothing to do with antifa; if anything, it's the other way around with antifa stepping in to counter Proud boys, PP and other assorted far right gangs that took off post Trump's election.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 04:18:35 pm by Black Dog »
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2126 on: October 18, 2021, 04:26:21 pm »
You should also know that the Proud Boys initially had nothing to do with antifa; if anything, it's the other way around with antifa stepping in to counter Proud boys, PP and other assorted far right gangs that took off post Trump's election.

You should know that ANTIFA pre-dates the Proud Boys by about nine years, and the far left gang you seem to support have been carrying on violent political protests against anything perceived as right of center for almost that long. Their activities escalated after Trump was elected, and they and their ilk have often been blamed for much of the violence during the BLM protests, as well.

And some Trump people ARE racist, but most are just scared and angry about their economic future and a world they see as changing to exclude them.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 04:27:59 pm by The Cynic »

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2127 on: October 18, 2021, 04:32:04 pm »
You should know that ANTIFA pre-dates the Proud Boys by about nine years, and the far left gang you seem to support have been carrying on violent political protests against anything perceived as right of center for almost that long.

The only reason anyone knows about antifa (we called them Black Bloc in my day) outside of activist circles is because you had all these Nazis running around after Trump in places like Charlottesville or coming in to places like Portland expressly to stir trouble and pick fights. It was a niche group before that.

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Their activities escalated after Trump was elected, and they and their ilk have often been blamed for much of the violence during the BLM protests, as well. The idea they're a defensive group against evil right-wing gangs is as laughable as most of your positions here.

Yes lots of extremely stupid people blamed antifa for the violence during the BLM protests when it was the cops who went on a spree of beating and gassing and maiming the people who protested George Floyd's murder. Oh and then there were all the incidents of violence precipitated by right wingers like the umbrella guy.

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And some Trump people ARE racist, but most are just scared and angry about their economic future and a world they see as changing to exclude them.

Boo **** hoo. They should stop voting for Republicans then.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 04:36:17 pm by Black Dog »

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2128 on: October 19, 2021, 03:44:06 pm »
The only reason anyone knows about antifa (we called them Black Bloc in my day) outside of activist circles is because you had all these Nazis running around after Trump in places like Charlottesville or coming in to places like Portland expressly to stir trouble and pick fights. It was a niche group before that.

What really incited groups like the proud boys was what happened in Berkeley where a mob of black shirts attacked and beat up a group of Trump supporters at a rally. That was the one where the college professor was arrested for smashing Trumpies with a bicycle chain. Then a mob of pro-Trump people showed up a few days later and ran the ANTIFA types off with more violence.

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Yes lots of extremely stupid people blamed antifa for the violence during the BLM protests when it was the cops who went on a spree of beating and gassing and maiming the people who protested George Floyd's murder.

Riiiight. They were mostly peaceful protesters who caused billions in damages as they burned down and looted buildings. Wanna see a few hundred videos of them attacking people in the streets? There were a ton going around the last couple of years so I'm sure I can find you some.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #2129 on: October 19, 2021, 05:41:47 pm »
What really incited groups like the proud boys was what happened in Berkeley where a mob of black shirts attacked and beat up a group of Trump supporters at a rally. That was the one where the college professor was arrested for smashing Trumpies with a bicycle chain. Then a mob of pro-Trump people showed up a few days later and ran the ANTIFA types off with more violence.

That was like four months after the PB's and friends held Unite the Right in Charlottesville.

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Riiiight. They were mostly peaceful protesters who caused billions in damages as they burned down and looted buildings. Wanna see a few hundred videos of them attacking people in the streets? There were a ton going around the last couple of years so I'm sure I can find you some.

Yeah I'm gonna need some evidence "antifa" was behind the looting and rioting (most of which was the direct result of police attacking actual peaceful protesters).