Canadian Politics Today

I'm talking about everybody's tone.

We are on page 136 of this thread, Kimmy has said a lot of things.  The post I was addressing was that particular one wherein she lays the basis of why biological men should be excluded from women's sports.

I'm not sure you read her example from the post which I was quoting, but here it is again:

IOW, long before she discussed Hubbard specifically, she implied that a mediocre man has a good chance against a GOAT woman as the reason why transwomen should not be competing with biological women.  When BD brou ght up the mediocre man's loss, she called his argument stupid as though it has no relevance when just a few pages back she'd implied it herself. 

Point of order.  This nasty message you mention, I had posted on August 2, in anticipation that wokies would use Hubbard's big fail to "prove" that AMAB "women" don't have an advantage over cisgender women.

I could not have anticipated that 10 days later Black Dog would return to the forum to make the stupid argument I had prognosticated .  When he did, I simply quoted my earlier post.

For the record Black Dog is not the first or the only wokie to advance that stupid argument, just the only one here at the forum.

Then everyone pounced on BD for his tone when truthfully it was Kimmy's post (which I quoted) that had been proven incorrect.   

The argument hasn't been proven incorrect at all.  If you guys genuinely wanted to look at Hubbard's results, you'd see numerous gold and silver medals in elite international competition. You'd notice that in an earlier competition Hubbard recorded a 285kg total lift which would have won a silver medal at these Olympics.  But you guys aren't actually interested in looking at Hubbard's results, you're only interested in a single data-point that supports your ideological view.

IOW, long before she discussed Hubbard specifically, she implied that a mediocre man has a good chance against a GOAT woman as the reason why transwomen should not be competing with biological women.  When BD brou ght up the mediocre man's loss, she called his argument stupid as though it has no relevance when just a few pages back she'd implied it herself. 

There's a ton of evidence that mediocre men can best GOAT female athletes. That a middle-aged has-been/never-was failed to win a medal at this Olympics doesn't change that.

I've posted this stuff before, but here's a refresher. This website contains lots of examples comparing the results of female Olympic champions to US high-school boys. https://boysvswomen.com/#/

Florence Joyner-Griffith's women's world record in 100m sprint has stood for over 30 years; it's beaten by hundreds of male athletes every year.  This year's 100m women's sprint medalists, the "Jamaican Rockets", wouldn't have even qualified for a spot in the US college sprint competitions.  The gold medalist in the women's over-87kg weightlifting Olympic event that Hubbard bombed out in is Li Wenwen, the Michael Phelps of her sport. She finished with a total of 320kg, which beat her closest competitor by nearly 40kg. She is 150kg. If she had been competing in men's competition in the 109kg+ weight class, she would have finished dead last, trailing the last place man by 58kg.  A man of comparable size, Man Asaad of Syria, 147kg, won the bronze medal with a total of 424kg, 104kg over Li Wenwen's Olympic record and 92kg above Li Wenwen's women's world record. 

You can go on and on and on in just about any sport you like. There are a few sports where male and female athletes can compete as equals. Shooting, equestrian, motorsports, things where skill is at a premium and physical capability is not a high priority.  And not coincidentally, there are sports where age isn't as big a factor because skill is more important than physical capability.  You can find me a 43 year old hockey player but not a 43 year old sprinter. In the NFL you can find me a 43 year old quarterback but not a 43 year old running back.

Hubbard's big fail at the Olympics changed your mind that a mediocre male athlete can't compete with elite female athletes...  really?  That really just depends how far we're willing to stretch the definition of "mediocre". Hubbard's own multiple gold medals in international competition should be enough to demonstrate that a mediocre male certainly can compete with elite females.



 -k

The argument hasn't been proven incorrect at all.  If you guys genuinely wanted to look at Hubbard's results, you'd see numerous gold and silver medals in elite international competition. You'd notice that in an earlier competition Hubbard recorded a 285kg total lift which would have won a silver medal at these Olympics.  But you guys aren't actually interested in looking at Hubbard's results, you're only interested in a single data-point that supports your ideological view.

There's a ton of evidence that mediocre men can best GOAT female athletes. That a middle-aged has-been/never-was failed to win a medal at this Olympics doesn't change that.

It's not a single data point. Trans athletes lose quite often because there's a host of factors that contribute to winning or losing a competition beyond simple biology.

I've posted this stuff before, but here's a refresher. This website contains lots of examples comparing the results of female Olympic champions to US high-school boys. https://boysvswomen.com/#/

Florence Joyner-Griffith's women's world record in 100m sprint has stood for over 30 years; it's beaten by hundreds of male athletes every year.  This year's 100m women's sprint medalists, the "Jamaican Rockets", wouldn't have even qualified for a spot in the US college sprint competitions.  The gold medalist in the women's over-87kg weightlifting Olympic event that Hubbard bombed out in is Li Wenwen, the Michael Phelps of her sport. She finished with a total of 320kg, which beat her closest competitor by nearly 40kg. She is 150kg. If she had been competing in men's competition in the 109kg+ weight class, she would have finished dead last, trailing the last place man by 58kg.  A man of comparable size, Man Asaad of Syria, 147kg, won the bronze medal with a total of 424kg, 104kg over Li Wenwen's Olympic record and 92kg above Li Wenwen's women's world record. 

Hubbard's big fail at the Olympics changed your mind that a mediocre male athlete can't compete with elite female athletes...  really?  That really just depends how far we're willing to stretch the definition of "mediocre". Hubbard's own multiple gold medals in international competition should be enough to demonstrate that a mediocre male certainly can compete with elite females.

Anyone can see the problem with mapping these results onto fully transitioned M to F competitors.

The question is: is the disparity between trans athletes and natal born female athletes significantly greater than the disparity between female competitors? I'm not sure there's enough evidence one way or another.

Ever notice how trans women are a threat to women but nobody ever talks about trans men or non-binary trans folks as a threat to anything?

Women have been using men's washrooms forever.  There's never enough facilities for women.

I never felt threatened.  Embarrassed occasionally.

And if a trans man or a non binary unit wants to try out for the England national rugby union team, I think they should be given a shot.

Ever notice how trans women are a threat to women but nobody ever talks about trans men or non-binary trans folks as a threat to anything?

While I'm not exactly sure this meets your definition of threatening, I have lately heard gay men complaining that Grindr has been overrun with 18 year old girls with bowl-cuts.

I think this is a fantastic development. When it was just lesbians being bullied and harrassed, nobody gave a **** because women's sexual boundaries are always assumed to be up for negotiation and also **** lesbians anyway.  But now that gay men are under attack as well, more people will begin recognizing the new homophobia for what it is.

 -k

My most vocal FtoM friend has been super vocal about gay men's prejudices in this regard.

I really hate this framing of it.

Gay men aren't prejudiced against trans men.  Gay men are same sex attracted.

Just when it seemed like the days of shaming people for same-sex attraction were over.

Does anybody ever confront your friend for their homophobia, or do you all just nod along?

Also, I feel like lately FtoM is catching up to MtoF.

I'm not sure if other sources will confirm this, but figures from the Tavistock gender identity clinic in the UK show that the ratio of FtM to MtF has absolutely exploded in recent years.



But referrals of children and teens to Tavistock don't reflect everybody who is considering transition, of course. Adults wanting to transition wouldn't go to Tavistock. Teens wouldn't necessarily, either. But the trend there is obvious, and seems to correlate with the anecdotal observations anyway.

 -k

So no comment on the fact it was an obvious hoax?

 -k

We'll see if any of it sticks.

Meanwhile, are you still going to pretend the violent protests around this weren't put on by your friends in the far right?