Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 56039 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1665 on: April 16, 2021, 11:30:43 am »
Florida House passes anti-transgender bill that would allow for genital examinations of high school athletes

This is where moral panics lead.

That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.  Just check the birth certificate LOL.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1666 on: April 16, 2021, 11:33:25 am »
The thing I don't get, though, is do we want rules or no ?  If we don't want rules then we leave things up to local culture, discretion etc.

If we do then there can't be exceptions.

It's lose-lose isn't it ?

There needs to be rules, and there's also good and bad ways to enforce those rules.  Examining genitals is not the best way.  Someone could cut off their **** and shove their balls up inside their taint, what does an exam show?  Who is going to do the exam? 
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1667 on: April 16, 2021, 12:13:13 pm »
That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.  Just check the birth certificate LOL.

The humiliation is part of the point.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1668 on: April 16, 2021, 12:30:34 pm »
The humiliation is part of the point.
100% this.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1669 on: April 16, 2021, 12:44:35 pm »
No idea how this relates to the story, care to elaborate?

Well, they want "rules" with regards to who competes in a sport based on sex, I'm guessing.  But the "freedom loving" set used to HATE legislation and rules, partly because it was government intruding on peoples' lives.  So now every high school student in the state will need to get their c***s and c***s graded by Ms. Millithwipple the state Pen-gina judge ? 

Don't they hate that stuff ?

Like the bathroom rules, which effectively state that a large bulky man-looking dude with a **** down there will be washing his hands beside your little girl in the ladies' room.

Principles are difficult to apply to humans.  I feel like it's best to leave it alone.  If there is a student with some kind of biological advantage... deal with it I guess.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1670 on: April 16, 2021, 12:45:49 pm »
There needs to be rules, and there's also good and bad ways to enforce those rules.   

There don't, though.  Self-organizing used to be a principle espoused by conservatives and now when it comes to trans stuff they want a new branch of the police to deal with it or something.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1671 on: April 16, 2021, 02:07:20 pm »
The humiliation is part of the point.

Possibly, but what evidence do you have to assume this?  They're pretty dumb and ignorant in Florida too aside from being just arses.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1672 on: April 16, 2021, 02:27:26 pm »
There don't, though.  Self-organizing used to be a principle espoused by conservatives and now when it comes to trans stuff they want a new branch of the police to deal with it or something.

If there's no rules then that means all genders and sexes and hormones can compete with each other.  There's either rules, or no rules.  And if there's rules you have to enforce them.  You just need to decide what the rules are, and how to enforce them.  Biological men competing against women in women's events is a legit issue.  Inspecting genitals is a pretty extreme solution, especially for high schoolers.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1673 on: April 16, 2021, 03:01:34 pm »
1. If there's no rules then that means all genders and sexes and hormones can compete with each other. 

2. There's either rules, or no rules. 

3.  Biological men competing against women in women's events is a legit issue. 
1. Is there a rule, a law that says "boy's soccer" includes just boys ?  Or is it a gaggle of administrators who just decide that ?  And is it a rule or rule of law ?  I'm exploring here.

2. Yes and for lots of things there are "no rules".  There aren't laws about using rest rooms in a lot of jurisdictions, for example.

3. A lot of people don't care, and even more are willing to let the sport itself decide.  I suppose that IS a "rule" but it's not a law.

Again, I have no dog in this fight although I do find it odd that the social conservatives want to bring government into peoples' lives all of a sudden.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1674 on: April 16, 2021, 03:36:18 pm »
1. Is there a rule, a law that says "boy's soccer" includes just boys ?  Or is it a gaggle of administrators who just decide that ?  And is it a rule or rule of law ?  I'm exploring here.

2. Yes and for lots of things there are "no rules".  There aren't laws about using rest rooms in a lot of jurisdictions, for example.

3. A lot of people don't care, and even more are willing to let the sport itself decide.  I suppose that IS a "rule" but it's not a law.

Again, I have no dog in this fight although I do find it odd that the social conservatives want to bring government into peoples' lives all of a sudden.

Well now you're talking laws instead of rules.  I guess if the state is in charge of public schools they make the rules?  But why make a law?

Yes conservatives are not the small government people they say they are, only when convenient for them.  Only the libertarians seem to be small gov.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1675 on: April 18, 2021, 11:35:05 am »
Possibly, but what evidence do you have to assume this?  They're pretty dumb and ignorant in Florida too aside from being just arses.

Being dumb and ignorant doesn't preclude someone from being cruel.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1676 on: April 22, 2021, 04:10:03 pm »
1. Is there a rule, a law that says "boy's soccer" includes just boys ?  Or is it a gaggle of administrators who just decide that ?  And is it a rule or rule of law ?  I'm exploring here.

2. Yes and for lots of things there are "no rules".  There aren't laws about using rest rooms in a lot of jurisdictions, for example.

3. A lot of people don't care, and even more are willing to let the sport itself decide.  I suppose that IS a "rule" but it's not a law.

Why do we have sports separated by sex in the first place? Why do we have weight classes in some sports?  Why do we have age categories?  Why don't we just let everybody compete together in one big group, it would be more inclusive.

Again, I have no dog in this fight although I do find it odd that the social conservatives want to bring government into peoples' lives all of a sudden.

"conservative" doesn't mean "small government" or "libertarian" or "anarchist", it means "conservative."  There are areas where conservatives want more government (typically law and order type issues), and areas where areas where liberals want less government (typically personal morality type issues).   Creating single-sex spaces for females used to be a progressive cause, but now preserving single-sex spaces is a traditionalist cause, which is why feminists are working with conservatives who want to preserve them rather than with progressives who want to destroy them.

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Online Black Dog

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1677 on: April 22, 2021, 04:19:11 pm »
Creating single-sex spaces for females used to be a progressive cause, but now preserving single-sex spaces is a traditionalist cause, which is why feminists are working with conservatives who want to preserve them rather than with progressives who want to destroy them.

 -k

And if that means letting adults look at the privates of underage kids, that's just the way it goes.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1678 on: April 22, 2021, 05:11:50 pm »
Florida House passes anti-transgender bill that would allow for genital examinations of high school athletes

This is where moral panics lead.
The humiliation is part of the point.
100% this.
And if that means letting adults look at the privates of underage kids, that's just the way it goes.

I assume that you and cybercoma are up in arms over the Florida bill (rather than the similar bills in other states) because it lets you attack the grossness of "genital examinations" rather than defending the obvious stupidity of letting male athletes compete in female sports in the first place.

You'd like to conjure up this image of highschool girls having to pull down their shorts before they're allowed to race, in hope that people who haven't read the article will take your word for it.  Of course, that's not actually what's going to happen, as your own article explains.  In cases of ambiguity a cheek swab or a medical examination might be used, but in the vast majority of cases there isn't any ambiguity.  Caster Semanya type situations are actually incredibly rare; in the overwhelming majority of cases it's as Poonlight says: a simple glance at the student's birth certificate or medical records is all that's required.   And even in the incredibly unlikely event that a medical examination is needed, it would be performed in private by the student's own doctor.   So I view what you're selling here as absurd hyperbole (pretty much like when you were comparing the ICE border detainment camps to Nazi concentration camps.)



Also, why are you guys suddenly pretending you give a crap about girls' privacy?

When it comes to telling a girl that she has to change or shower in front of any male who identifies as female that day, it's "she will have to get over her discomfort."  And yet at the remote chance of someone being asked to get a medical examination in the privacy of your own doctor's office is "OMG state-sanctioned sexual violation!" Or replacing women's washrooms with all-gender washrooms. It's a privacy nightmare for women and a wet dream for voyeurs, but progressives love them. "it's so inclusive."  If progressives actually cared about women's privacy, they wouldn't be lobbying for universities and government offices to get rid of women's washrooms and replace them with all-gender washrooms. 

You guys pretending like you give even the teensiest tiniest little **** about women's privacy would be more convincing if it didn't come from the "women will have to get over their discomfort" crowd.

 -k
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1679 on: April 22, 2021, 05:38:43 pm »
Why do we have sports separated by sex in the first place? Why do we have weight classes in some sports?  Why do we have age categories?  Why don't we just let everybody compete together in one big group, it would be more inclusive.

Well at least we should think about it.

Quote
"conservative" doesn't mean "small government" or "libertarian" or "anarchist", it means "conservative."  There are areas where conservatives want more government (typically law and order type issues), and areas where areas where liberals want less government (typically personal morality type issues).   Creating single-sex spaces for females used to be a progressive cause, but now preserving single-sex spaces is a traditionalist cause, which is why feminists are working with conservatives who want to preserve them rather than with progressives who want to destroy them.

 -k

Circular definitions are to be discarded.  Traditional conservatism goes for less government, respects institutions and old timey values.

But we're in wacky doo doo land these days, which is why I am redefining myself as a progressive conservative.  It's easier just to have everybody hate me.
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