Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 56023 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #225 on: September 22, 2017, 04:15:35 pm »
There IS no equivalent of Sharia among Christians. It would have to be invented. Christianity has never sought to do so.

Try perusing the Old Testament some time. You'll find a lot of equivalencies to Sharia.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #226 on: September 22, 2017, 04:42:28 pm »
Try perusing the Old Testament some time. You'll find a lot of equivalencies to Sharia.

This kind of **** answer is getting really annoying.  You don't see masses of Christians demanding in countries to institute the Old Testament.  There may a few here and there, but they are laughingstocks to the rest of the Christian community, not heroes.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 04:47:56 pm by Goddess »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #227 on: September 22, 2017, 04:49:38 pm »
This kind of **** answer is getting really annoying.  You don't see masses of Christians rioting in countries trying to institute the Old Testament.  There may a few here and there, but they are laughingstocks to the rest of the Christian community, not heroes.

Speaking of annoying "answers", perhaps try reading the post I was replying to. Specifically the part about the claim Christianity NEVER had anything similar to Sharia.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #228 on: September 22, 2017, 06:03:47 pm »
And yet Christians never have [imposed religion], even when the West was much more religious, and it has grown increasingly less religious and more secular over the centuries. Why even compare it to Islam, then which is going in the opposite direction?

You've got to be kidding.  The Middles Ages were the epitome of religious laws, heresy, witchcraft, sexual sins, marriage laws, and the only reason things have evolved is not thanks to Christians who fought progress every step of the way, but because of secular liberalism. 

Don't kid yourself, the anti-choice, flat-earthers who deny evolution would love to inject a little Christian morality into the legal system again if they could.


Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #229 on: September 22, 2017, 06:16:15 pm »
My hunch is that immigrants vote Liberal because they're worried that Conservatives don't want immigration, not because they're socially liberal.

Harper and Mulroney did little to change immigration, so I think it goes beyond that. 

My hunch is immigrants vote Liberal because they are tired of Conservatives not being vocally against the xenophobic sub-groups that support them.   

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #230 on: September 22, 2017, 06:30:10 pm »
You've got to be kidding.  The Middles Ages were the epitome of religious laws, heresy, witchcraft, sexual sins, marriage laws, and the only reason things have evolved is not thanks to Christians who fought progress every step of the way, but because of secular liberalism. 

Don't kid yourself, the anti-choice, flat-earthers who deny evolution would love to inject a little Christian morality into the legal system again if they could.

The Middle Ages were a time of barbarism and ignorance, but even so I only found a dozen cases of gays being executed over something like a 500 year period. The last time almost two hundred years ago. Yes, the Inquisition. Let's not forget that, but it's impact is also hugely exaggerated, with around 1000 people executed over a period of a couple of centuries. Iran executes more people in a year, and often for moral offenses, including homosexuality.

But yes, I'm not denying the Middle ages were a time of extremely conservative religious beliefs. But there was never a 'religious law' code implemented which bore any resemblance to Sharia law.

By the way, who came up with the concept of secular liberalism but Christian people? Who liberalized the Christian churches but Christians? Who liberalized western society but Christians. When are Muslims going to do the same thing?
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #231 on: September 22, 2017, 06:32:07 pm »
Harper and Mulroney did little to change immigration, so I think it goes beyond that. 

My hunch is immigrants vote Liberal because they are tired of Conservatives not being vocally against the xenophobic sub-groups that support them.   

Immigrants vote for the party in power which brings them over. Immigrants (except Muslims) were MORE likely, not less, to vote Conservative in the last several elections. The Conservatives are popular with Asians while the Liberals are, of course, popular with Muslims. During the last election Trudeau's promise to double the number of immigrant seniors coming here was designed to buy the votes of Indo-Canadians and other immigrants from Southeast Asia, which was why he made the promise. It only cost Canada a couple of billion dollars a year, after all.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:38:42 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #232 on: September 22, 2017, 06:39:15 pm »
Immigrants vote for the party in power which brings them over. Immigrants (except Muslims) were MORE likely, not less, to vote Conservative in the last several elections. The Conservatives are popular with Asians while the Liberals are, of course, popular with Muslims. During the last election Trudeau's promise to double the number of immigrant seniors coming here was designed to buy the votes of Indo-Canadians and other immigrants from Southeast Asia, which was why he made the promise. It only cost Canada a couple of billion dollars a year, after all.

Simply false.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #233 on: September 22, 2017, 06:41:48 pm »
Simply false.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/

This is a meaningless statistic. It doesn't say what immigrants voted for. It says that the ridings with the most immigrants voted Liberal. Uhm, but it could easily say the major urban ridings tended to vote Liberal. They always do. Sometimes the suburbs go Tory and sometimes Liberal and that tends to decide elections.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:46:58 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #234 on: September 22, 2017, 06:46:28 pm »
But yes, I'm not denying the Middle ages were a time of extremely conservative religious beliefs. But there was never a 'religious law' code implemented which bore any resemblance to Sharia law.

Well, British law was never been coded since we follow common law so therein lies a huge difference. 

As for Christian countries who do follow coded laws, yes, I believe Canon law could very well be compared to Sharia law.

PS, for the record, I'm not arguing anything of the sort can be compared in the modern world, but you did make a ridiculous claim when you said:

Quote
And yet Christians never have [imposed religion], even when the West was much more religious,


Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #235 on: September 22, 2017, 06:50:15 pm »
This is a meaningless statistic. It doesn't say what immigrants voted for. It says that the ridings with the most immigrants voted Liberal. Uhm, but it could easily say the major urban ridings tended to vote Liberal. They always do. Sometimes the suburbs go Tory and sometimes Liberal and that tends to decide elections.

Well, it's more than you provided for your claim.  I believe you provided nothing.

Do you have anything to back this up?

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Immigrants (except Muslims) were MORE likely, not less, to vote Conservative in the last several elections.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:52:41 pm by BC_cheque »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #236 on: September 22, 2017, 07:02:15 pm »
Well, British law was never been coded since we follow common law so therein lies a huge difference. 

As for Christian countries who do follow coded laws, yes, I believe Canon law could very well be compared to Sharia law.

PS, for the record, I'm not arguing anything of the sort can be compared in the modern world, but you did make a ridiculous claim when you said:

I don't think you can compare this to Sharia law. Where's the horrendously bloody punishments?
https://www.ourladyswarriors.org/canon/c1311-1363.htm
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #237 on: September 22, 2017, 07:06:32 pm »
Well, it's more than you provided for your claim.  I believe you provided nothing.

Do you have anything to back this up?

I've looked around but there's very little now on which immigrants voted for which groups. The closest I see without putting too much time in is this, from a very left wing columnist for the Globe.

The first is that the Conservatives became a preferred party of immigrants and of many racial and religious minorities. In the 2011 federal election, the Tories attracted 42 per cent of the vote from foreign-born Canadians, higher than their 37-per-cent share among native-born Canadians. The Tories’ share of the racial-minority vote rose from 9 per cent in 2000 to a substantial 31 per cent in 2011.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/tories-gain-from-anti-immigrant-messaging-among-immigrants-what-gives/article26749675/?arc404=true
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline kimmy

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #238 on: September 22, 2017, 09:25:59 pm »
They came from disliking homosexuals, likely from aversion to the thought of men having sex together. You think that's something unique to Christianity? There were laws on homosexual men being castrated in Assyria over a thousand years before Christ was born.

Certainly hatred of homosexuals is hardly unique to "the big three" Abramaic religions (the Jews were also murdering homosexual men well over a thousand years before Christ was born, for what it's worth).

However: Christians are always eager to point out the Judeo-Christian roots of our laws. Whether Canadian, American, or English, our lawmakers have been, for centuries, practicing Christians, and this has been reflected in our laws. Even disregarding laws specifically related o homosexuality, there have still been a significant body of law devoted to imposing the moral views of Christian lawmakers via the power of the state. One could look at laws regarding pornography, contraception, adultery, or various sex acts.

We know that Christians aren't the only ones who have a problem with homosexuality, but we also know that Governor Rick Perry's anger at Texas anti-sodomy laws being struck down wasn't based on ancient Assyrian beliefs.   Catholics might not be the only ones who oppose contraception, but we do know where Rick Santorum's fanatical opposition to the Griswold v Connecticut Supreme Court Ruling is founded. Going back further, we know that the gross indecency law under which Alan Turing was persecuted and chemically castrated was not written because of the beliefs of ancient Assyrians.

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #239 on: September 23, 2017, 11:56:23 am »
However: Christians are always eager to point out the Judeo-Christian roots of our laws. Whether Canadian, American, or English, our lawmakers have been, for centuries, practicing Christians, and this has been reflected in our laws.

Yes, certainly. Just as the law makers in the Muslim world are practicing and devout Muslims and so their laws reflect that.

Quote
Even disregarding laws specifically related o homosexuality, there have still been a significant body of law devoted to imposing the moral views of Christian lawmakers via the power of the state. One could look at laws regarding pornography, contraception, adultery, or various sex acts.

Sure. But let's look at what those laws involved in the West about a century ago. Now compare that to the laws in Muslim countries - not a century ago, but TODAY. Is there any real comparison in terms of the brutality, particularly over public morals laws? I mean, did Christian countries ever execute a woman for adultery? Let me cite from a wiki article I just looked up.

Gospel of John
In the passage, Jesus has sat down in the temple to teach some of the people, after he spent the previous night at the Mount of Olives. A group of scribes and Pharisees confront Jesus, interrupting his teaching session. They bring in a woman, accusing her of committing adultery, claiming she was caught in the very act. They ask Jesus whether the punishment for someone like her should be stoning, as proscribed by Mosaic Law.[2] Jesus first ignores the interruption, and writes on the ground as though he does not hear them. But when the woman's accusers continue their challenge, he states that the one who is without sin is the one who should cast the first stone. The accusers and congregants depart, leaving Jesus alone with the woman. Jesus asks the woman if anyone has condemned her. She answers that no one has condemned her. Jesus says that he, too, does not condemn her, and tells her to go and sin no more.


Now lets' look at Muslim law, also from Wiki

Zināʾ (زِنَاء) or zina (زِنًى or زِنًا) is an Islamic legal term referring to unlawful sexual intercourse.[1] According to traditional jurisprudence, zina can include adultery (of married parties), fornication (of unmarried parties), ****, bestiality, and ****.[1] Classification of homosexual intercourse as zina differs according to legal school.[2] The Quran disapproved of the promiscuity prevailing in Arabia at the time, and several verses refer to unlawful sexual intercourse, including one that prescribes the punishment of 100 lashes for fornicators.[2] Four witnesses are required to prove the offense.[2] Zina thus belongs to the class of hadd (pl. hudud) crimes which have Quranically specified punishments.[2]
Although stoning for zina is not mentioned in the Quran, all schools of traditional jurisprudence agreed on the basis of hadith that it is to be punished by stoning if the offender is muhsan (adult, free, Muslim, and having been married), with some extending this punishment to certain other cases and milder punishment prescribed in other scenarios


So even if Christians sometimes incorporate aspects of their religion into law, it just isn't the same thing as the harshness and cruelty of Islamic law.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 11:58:24 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum