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Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 56422 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #135 on: September 14, 2017, 06:08:00 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 13, 2017, 07:54:40 pm

Who's going to assimilate faster, an Irishman or an Afghan?

An Irishman.  But the question isn't that as such, it's what do they bring, and can they assimilate well enough ?

I have already proposed that the government should (or perhaps does) submit all key variables into a formula and find out what happens. 
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #136 on: September 14, 2017, 11:54:57 am »
Quote from: cybercoma on September 13, 2017, 09:35:12 pm
You simply don't operate in reality. I've worked with plenty of Muslim people,who,I would rather have as a neighbour and share more in common with than I do with you.

"I know some nice muslims" is not in any way, shape or form information that should or can be used to discuss broad scale policy with regard to immigrants numbering in the hundreds of thousands.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #137 on: September 14, 2017, 11:59:27 am »
Quote from: MH on September 14, 2017, 06:05:45 am
Is this information reflected in my post on MLW ?
For a much smaller group, the far-right seems to do a similar amount of damage.

The concern about terrorism is not what has been done - aside from the major attacks, but what might be done. 106 victims of right wing wackos in the last 16 years? If a Muslim terrorist succeeds in downing one major airliner that will triple overnight. We don't have to show up three hours early at the airport because anyone fears a right wing kook will blow up the plane, you know.

But in any event, this should not be reduced to terrorism. My issue with wide scale immigration has never been mainly about terrorism but about the degree to which a religious backed culture with values inimical to ours can grow and sustain itself in Canada and produce a sub-national group hostile to the rest of us.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #138 on: September 14, 2017, 12:13:00 pm »
Quote from: MH on September 14, 2017, 06:08:00 am
An Irishman.  But the question isn't that as such, it's what do they bring, and can they assimilate well enough ?

Well, according to the government an Irishman is also far more likely to be economically successful than the Afghan - or a Libyan or an Iranian etc. And economics is why we have an immigration system - or at least, it's supposed to be.
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I have already proposed that the government should (or perhaps does) submit all key variables into a formula and find out what happens.

There is too much resistance among the progressive set of the political and media elites to the concept that our national culture and values might be 'better' than anyone elses's.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #139 on: September 14, 2017, 12:31:44 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 14, 2017, 12:21:42 pm
You don't challenge posts. That's your problem. I don't think you even know how to challenge posts. When you see a post you don't like your instant reply is to insult the poster. In reply to something like a fifty line post of mine about various aspects of immigration under discussion all you come back with is we don't discriminate like 'my buddy' Trump and I wouldn't let brown people into the country. Are you really not aware of what a brainless, stupid, non-contribution that is to any sort of intelligent discussion?

Pius I posted 2 links to surveys that clearly contradicted yet another series of assumptions you toss around to try and support your anti immigration stance. You reply with insults, as per usual. not my problem if contradictory data raises your ire.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #140 on: September 14, 2017, 01:35:28 pm »
SirJohn - I was just making a point, and I needed it to serve as an example.

I asked about ignore, btw.  Never got an answer back.

Point made, so I've now deleted the posts.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 01:37:09 pm by JMT »
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Offline JMT

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #141 on: September 14, 2017, 01:55:30 pm »
Anyway, since we can't ignore eachother, I think it's better to avoid insulting each other.  Everyone here makes good points at least sometimes.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2017, 02:37:43 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 14, 2017, 12:13:00 pm
Well, according to the government an Irishman is also far more likely to be economically successful than the Afghan - or a Libyan or an Iranian etc. And economics is why we have an immigration system - or at least, it's supposed to be.

Ok.  Well, I would be ok with importing more Irish if it could be quantified however I'm not ok with setting some national quotas at zero.  You could emphasize recruiting foreign nationals from better matches though.

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There is too much resistance among the progressive set of the political and media elites to the concept that our national culture and values might be 'better' than anyone elses's.

Because that's vain and frankly unCanadian.  We don't have to say our system is better, we obviously believe it or we would be dismantling it instead of moving it forward.

------------

I'm a big fan of playing off flaws against strengths so to speak.  What I mean here is that I would like to use our endless busybody and never-shut-up nitpicky nature (reminder I AM Canadian :) ) against our government services to create some kind of real culture of criticism of our services.  There should be endless surveys on quality and volume of service, as well as cost comparisons.  Maybe in a forum.  We could redirect some of the energy we use discussing diversity to the end of the earth on THAT.

Me, conservative.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2017, 04:48:58 pm »
Quote from: MH on September 14, 2017, 02:37:43 pm
Ok.  Well, I would be ok with importing more Irish if it could be quantified however I'm not ok with setting some national quotas at zero.  You could emphasize recruiting foreign nationals from better matches though.

I don't know as we need to set quotas. I think we should, however, focus our efforts on recruiting people from the nations which A) have a lower failure/high success rate, and B0 have a technological and cultural background which is more compatible with ours.

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Because that's vain and frankly unCanadian.  We don't have to say our system is better, we obviously believe it or we would be dismantling it instead of moving it forward.

So honesty is unCanadian?

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I'm a big fan of playing off flaws against strengths so to speak.  What I mean here is that I would like to use our endless busybody and never-shut-up nitpicky nature (reminder I AM Canadian :) ) against our government services to create some kind of real culture of criticism of our services.  There should be endless surveys on quality and volume of service, as well as cost comparisons.  Maybe in a forum.  We could redirect some of the energy we use discussing diversity to the end of the earth on THAT.

Me, conservative.

I have no idea how that relates to gender culture, much less immigration and its impact on gender relations, or even if you're serious or pantomining conservatives. But the comparison of their quality should be with what other nations do. And if you compare our health care or legal system with Europe we come out very far behind despite spending roughly the same.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #144 on: September 14, 2017, 04:54:53 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 14, 2017, 04:48:58 pm
1. So honesty is unCanadian?

2. I have no idea how that relates to gender culture, much less immigration and its impact on gender relations, or even if you're serious or pantomining conservatives. But the comparison of their quality should be with what other nations do. And if you compare our health care or legal system with Europe we come out very far behind despite spending roughly the same.
1. Honesty doesn't preclude vanity.
2. Thread drift, sorry.  "Pantomiming" ?  I haven't heard any such suggestion from Conservatives either.  Remember the Liberal Red Book ?  I was enthusiastic about that one, ie. I was a sucker.  I agree that other nations are a benchmark, but if we do this I am convinced we can do better than any nation.  We should start by benchmarking ourselves and expecting, as citizens, continual improvement.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #145 on: September 14, 2017, 05:12:26 pm »
Quote from: MH on June 12, 2017, 06:42:36 pm
Would you use a pronoun that someone asked you to ?
I would use whichever standard singular pronoun someone wanted me to use (he/she/it). If there was agreement on a new pronoun like 'Ms' for the gender ambiguous such as 'xe' then I would use that too. I would not use 'custom' pronouns and expecting people do use them in discussions with third parties is an unreasonable demand. 'Their' as a singular is as pretentious as the royal 'we' so I would not use that either.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:29:57 pm by TimG »
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guest18

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #146 on: September 14, 2017, 06:11:18 pm »
I think the tendency to want to tell people how to speak comes directly from a sense that the language is spiked against you, and maybe just as much from a desire to exercise whatever power you can when you feel otherwise powerless. But I'm an old man too and there's just no way I would use a custom pronoun in normal conversation either. I would never be 100% sure they weren't playing a joke on me and seeing what they can make me do.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2017, 08:19:09 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on September 14, 2017, 11:54:57 am
"I know some nice muslims" is not in any way, shape or form information that should or can be used to discuss broad scale policy with regard to immigrants numbering in the hundreds of thousands.
There is nothing you've ever presented that leads me to believe that the government vetting process is failing and we are in some sort of imminent danger. There is nothing I've seen from meeting Syrian refugees and working with Muslims from all different cultural backgrounds that makes me fear them as much as you do.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2017, 10:03:53 am »
Quote from: cybercoma on September 15, 2017, 08:19:09 am
There is nothing you've ever presented that leads me to believe that the government vetting process is failing and we are in some sort of imminent danger. There is nothing I've seen from meeting Syrian refugees and working with Muslims from all different cultural backgrounds that makes me fear them as much as you do.

I take it you speak Arabic? You know, from meeting them, what's in their minds and souls and hearts because they've openly discussed it all with you? I once had a manager who was very nice. Well, he WAS very nice. But it turned out he was one of those 'adult baby' people. Totally freaking weird! Hadn't a clue!

Working with someone does not give you a hell of a lot of insight into whether they go home and beat their wives, or like to get spanked, or whether they pray daily for an Islamic state and the death of all Jews, or send their 6 year old daughter back 'home' to have her clitoris removed so she doesn't become a ****.

I know, I know, OUR Muslims are COMPLETELY different from all the rest of the world's Muslims because, well.. they came here! So they must be!

Somehow.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:07:47 am by SirJohn »
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2017, 10:06:59 am »
So you get to just make up whatever wild assumptions you want about how awful they are and I'm supposed to just believe you?

This might just blow your mind, but not all Muslims are Arab. You might want to digest that.
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