Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 55995 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2017, 10:12:38 am »
Remember when nobody really thought much about trans people? You don't have to remember very far. It was like, not much over a year ago. Now it's become so desperately fashionable to make 'trans' feel comfortable even the tories (in britain) are bringing in the kind of laws which make me go "Oh **** off"

The Government is planning to reform gender identity rules to make it easier for people to choose their own gender in law.

Under plans being considered by ministers, adults will be able to change their birth certificates at will without a doctor’s diagnosis, while non-binary gender people will be able to record their gender as “X”.


As far as I'm concerned, and, I suspect 90% of other people, if you've got a dick you're a guy. If you don't want to be a guy any more then cut it off. Not willing to do that? Then you're a GUY! Go get yourself some therapy if that bothers you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-rules-reform-gender-dysphoria-changes-2004-gender-recognition-self-identify-a7855381.html
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2017, 11:09:12 am »
Right.  So in ten years will you be saying Muslims are barbaric because they don't accept trans people?

Because that process happened with LGB people.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2017, 11:16:58 am »
Right.  So in ten years will you be saying Muslims are barbaric because they don't accept trans people?

Because that process happened with LGB people.

I have never denied that people could be attracted to their own gender. That would be idiotic. And I seriously don't care. But pretending you are another gender is just as idiotic. And unlike sexual preferences genders are used for identification purposes. We've already got cases where people don't need to have their picture on identification because that offends their religious sensibilities. Now they can have no gender either? What's next, people deciding they're rabbits or dogs? Are we going to see ID with no picture, no gender, no age, and no race? WTH?

If you want to think of yourself as a girl that's fine. I don't give a damn. No skin off my nose. But when government decides to start changing basic identity documents like birth certificates to coddle your psychological issues I have the right to object.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2017, 11:55:54 am »
You always have a right to object.

My point is that you are in a precarious position if you laud Western liberal traditions versus the fundamentalist alternative, and yet still decry the results of such decisions.

If you love a pluralistic society, then you have to accept that you will not agree with how things go sometimes.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2017, 12:38:24 pm »
Remember when nobody really thought much about trans people? You don't have to remember very far. It was like, not much over a year ago.
This is incredibly out of touch with reality. At least you're proud of the rock you live under though. That's commendable in some ways, I guess.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2017, 02:27:03 pm »
You always have a right to object.

My point is that you are in a precarious position if you laud Western liberal traditions versus the fundamentalist alternative, and yet still decry the results of such decisions.

If you love a pluralistic society, then you have to accept that you will not agree with how things go sometimes.

Valuing western liberal traditions does not mean embracing whatever fashionable bauble of an idea catches the flighty minds of western progressives.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2017, 02:28:39 pm »
This is incredibly out of touch with reality. At least you're proud of the rock you live under though. That's commendable in some ways, I guess.

Maybe you should come to terms with the reality that a lot of your beliefs, cares and concerns are pretty far out there, by comparison with the greater population, and that it isn't everyone else who is the extremist, but you. If you think any substantial portion of the population ever even thinks about, much less cares about trans whatever people you're kidding yourself.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2017, 03:08:39 pm »
Valuing western liberal traditions does not mean embracing whatever fashionable bauble of an idea catches the flighty minds of western progressives.

No but it means embracing the process.  It also means that you acknowledge that progressivity is a continuum

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2017, 07:59:43 am »
i think you should be able to be whatever gender you want, and frankly aren't even the business of the state to put on documents.  But I don't think you should be able to change your biological sex on documents.  Genetics are unchangeable.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2017, 08:18:40 am »
Maybe you should come to terms with the reality that a lot of your beliefs, cares and concerns are pretty far out there, by comparison with the greater population, and that it isn't everyone else who is the extremist, but you. If you think any substantial portion of the population ever even thinks about, much less cares about trans whatever people you're kidding yourself.
I'm sorry, but if you think that trans people and their concerns didn't exist until a year or so ago, you've been living under a rock. End of story. I don't give a **** whether you care about trans people or not, but to pretend that nobody was talking about them or concerned with what was going on is so tone deaf that it makes me laugh. Do you think LGBT was an acronym that was just made up last year or something? These have been concerns for as long as I can remember. Hell, there's been movies about trans people for decades, so they've even been part of popular culture.

I don't think you're an extremist, I just find you utterly clueless about the world you live in.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2017, 08:26:52 am »
i think you should be able to be whatever gender you want, and frankly aren't even the business of the state to put on documents.  But I don't think you should be able to change your biological sex on documents.  Genetics are unchangeable.
What designation do you give to intersex individuals? What designation do you give to people with various chromosomal syndromes (eg, XYY syndrome, XXY syndrome)? Biological sex isn't even as binary as you think it is. And if you won't take my word for it, maybe an article from Stanford Medicine would be more convincing: http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2015/02/24/sex-biology-redefined-genes-dont-indicate-binary-sexes/

The issue here is that culturally we're programmed to think in terms of sex and gender binaries and the reality is far more complex than that. What's more is that we categorize people into these classifications because we then ascribe to them a whole bunch of other cultural baggage about what "normal" men and women should do and be, how they should behave, how they should dress, how they should act, how they should live and love and all sorts of other **** that is socially constructed.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #71 on: July 24, 2017, 09:10:58 am »
i never said sex is binary, i said it's unchangeable.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2017, 09:20:37 am »
That's also not true. There's examples in nature of genetic mutations occurring changing an animal's sex.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2017, 09:26:31 am »
If you people are actually interested in learning something, instead of just broadcasting your own opinions, there's an AMA on reddit with Joshua Safer, the Medical Director of the Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Boston Medical Center and Associate Professor of Medicine at the Boston University School of Medicine. He provides some links to papers and answers people's questions in the comments.

from r/science

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2017, 10:27:45 am »
I'm sorry, but if you think that trans people and their concerns didn't exist until a year or so ago, you've been living under a rock

I'm sure they were of desperate and ongoing concern to you and your clique of ultra-leftists activists and progressives, just as I'm sure 95% of the population never gave it a second thought except to snicker about men dressing as women. That's reality. Sorry if you find the intrusion on your starry eyed world view upsetting.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum