Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 55984 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #600 on: December 01, 2018, 11:41:36 am »
A lot of this discussion involves you shuffling the deck constantly.

We're talking mostly about the 'public' and media viewed/consumed by the public.  Now you are taking us back onto campus...

Almost nothing I've posted, including in the post you are replying to (and clearly have not bothered to read) has to do with 'campus'. It seems to me that a lot of this discussion involves your determined defense of the idea that anyone who declares themselves to be transgendered must be treated that way and blithely waving away any and all objections.

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Let's simplify this: I say that if 'THE' public doesn't like something, they will say so.

The public has said in polls they don't like the number of immigrants and particularly Muslims coming in. But no one can say so as an individual or they'll be fired from their jobs, banned from their political parties, and hounded by 'anti-hate' activists. Why would you imagine people who object to this transgendered nonsense would dare to speak out? More importantly, if Megan Murphy is booted off Twitter, disinvited to speaking engagements and had her book publishing agreement cancelled all for questioning transgenderism just what platform do you imagine the public will have to express itself?

I'm willing to bet 90% of the public has no idea of all this stuff, and if and when individuals run afoul of it their anger and stress and arguments will largely go unreported and unnoticed.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #601 on: December 01, 2018, 11:55:05 am »
What if - in a democracy - people really don't like something and they do nothing about it ?  I think you can answer that.  Should there be no government involvement without outcry ?  I would say the government can prioritize things and should, even without public interest.  Again - you are asking really obvious questions.

The questions are obvious but the answers don't seem to be.  (Your first sentence there is not something I asked)

Your main statement regarding prioritizing is making my point but seems to be a change from your previous points.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #602 on: December 01, 2018, 12:07:38 pm »
Almost nothing I've posted, including in the post you are replying to (and clearly have not bothered to read) has to do with 'campus'.

"In many progressive corners of academic and online life..."

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It seems to me that a lot of this discussion involves your determined defense of the idea that anyone who declares themselves to be transgendered must be treated that way and blithely waving away any and all objections.

Hmm ?  "Anyone who declares themselves as X must be treated as X" seems like a general maxim you would follow in polite society.  Why not ?

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I'm willing to bet 90% of the public has no idea of all this stuff, and if and when individuals run afoul of it their anger and stress and arguments will largely go unreported and unnoticed.

Alternately, a Muslim who behaves badly at school has their behaviour put on the national stage. A white supremacist is treated as a freedom-of-speech fighter when Rogers and BELL say no to her money.  So where are we ? 

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #603 on: December 01, 2018, 12:13:21 pm »
Hmm ?  "Anyone who declares themselves as X must be treated as X" seems like a general maxim you would follow in polite society.  Why not ?

I would have to say no, not really.  Especially if they are not.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #604 on: December 01, 2018, 12:21:49 pm »
Not the mainstream media, but the mainstream.  John and Mary Q. Public. 


*the* Lesbian website ?  That would mean millions or at least hundreds of thousands would go there wouldn't it ?  As such - what did the lesbians think ?

I honestly don't know if they have millions or even hundreds of thousands of readers. It's just that it's the only website I know of specifically by and for lesbians.

They aren't big on the "trans lesbian" phenomenon in the first place, so they're predictably not sympathetic to a creepy dude posing as trans when he wants to hang out in the women's locker room.  More generally they're annoyed at the redefining of "woman" and "lesbian" in particular-- they describe this as erasure.

Here's their column on Murphy:
https://www.afterellen.com/general-news/567199-twitter-bans-meghan-murphy-founder-of-canadas-leading-feminist-website

Another column by the same writer, talking about erasure:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-didnt-you-say-something-sooneryoure-asking_us_59d560dee4b085c51090ad64

No - I'm making a wider point about morality: "Honour systems are abused all the time, but the public sphere absorbs that behaviour and either accepts it or doesn't, in the end."

People will not accept this... if it's unacceptable.

People will decide what they will accept on an individual basis. There won't be a big public fight.  People don't want to fight. Women in general don't want to fight and don't want to make other people feel bad.  Most women aren't going to take action, especially if they're afraid of getting shamed on social media or ending up in front of an HRC panel.   Most women will just say "I don't feel comfortable here anymore" and go somewhere else next time or stay home.

There won't be hard data. There'll be an accumulation of anecdotes.  I've read quite a few anecdotes of lesbians who quit going to places that have become over run with pushy "trans lesbians" who want sex with cis women.  This will be hard to quantify. Businesses will eventually see the results in their bottom lines.  LGBT social groups might end up becoming GBT social groups if the Ts harass the Ls away.  The results won't be obvious.


And - what do you think of that ?

It's a tremendously equitable result! Everybody loses!

It sounds like the mainstream is starting to wake up.  That's a local ABC station right ?  We're talking about whether 'activists' and such types are going to be able to ensconce rights victories that are unacceptable to the mainstream.   I think it's still early days to say this is going to happen.  They are still putting bathroom restriction bills on the ballot in the US, and proposing legislation in state assemblies.

Creeps have discovered they can exploit this... the next step is finding out how many creeps will exploit it before the pendulum gets pushed back the other way.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #605 on: December 01, 2018, 12:24:28 pm »
Alternately, a Muslim who behaves badly at school has their behaviour put on the national stage. A white supremacist is treated as a freedom-of-speech fighter when Rogers and BELL say no to her money.  So where are we ?

I would say a white supremacist who behaves badly at school should have their behaviour put on the national stage, while a Muslim should be treated as a freedom-of-speech fighter when Rogers and BELL say no to their money. 

I'm very fair when it comes to that sort of thing.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #606 on: December 01, 2018, 12:35:36 pm »
I would say a white supremacist who behaves badly at school should have their behaviour put on the national stage, while a Muslim should be treated as a freedom-of-speech fighter when Rogers and BELL say no to their money. 

I'm very fair when it comes to that sort of thing.

It would seem the point you are missing is the difference as to what should perhaps happen and what actually does happen. You may recall, Trump claimed the white supremacists waving nazi flags in Charlottesville were "good people", and then he signs a bill banning trans people from signing up for military duty.

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #607 on: December 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm »
It would seem the point you are missing is the difference as to what should perhaps happen and what actually does happen. You may recall, Trump claimed the white supremacists waving nazi flags in Charlottesville were "good people", and then he signs a bill banning trans people from signing up for military duty.

It seems the point you are missing is that Trump is a twat.  What he says or does does not really count with normal people.

He'll be gone in a short while, anyway.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #608 on: December 01, 2018, 12:46:11 pm »
It seems the point you are missing is that Trump is a twat.  What he says or does does not really count with normal people.

He'll be gone in a short while, anyway.

Ah, Trump is the POTUS, what he says or does counts with a LOT of people. And he continues to maintain roughly the same base support he had when elected so, as much as I don't like the idea, he could well get a second term.

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #609 on: December 01, 2018, 12:53:05 pm »
Ah, Trump is the POTUS, what he says or does counts with a LOT of people. And he continues to maintain roughly the same base support he had when elected so, as much as I don't like the idea, he could well get a second term.

Yes, but there will always be governments doing things you may or may not agree with.  Trump is an anomaly, a freak.  Thankfully he does what he does in a country with systems in place that can arrest most of his more egregious excesses. 

To get back to my original point, what one does matters more than what one says.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #610 on: December 01, 2018, 01:13:57 pm »
Yes, but there will always be governments doing things you may or may not agree with.  Trump is an anomaly, a freak.  Thankfully he does what he does in a country with systems in place that can arrest most of his more egregious excesses. 

To get back to my original point, what one does matters more than what one says.

Well your "point" could easily be turned upside down in many cases. Depends on who says or does what. But that's a different discussion.

guest7

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #611 on: December 01, 2018, 01:18:56 pm »
Well your "point" could easily be turned upside down in many cases. Depends on who says or does what. But that's a different discussion.

Well, sure.  If I pet a puppy and you say "let's kill all the Jews, right now"  I can see you have a point. 
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #612 on: December 01, 2018, 02:25:03 pm »
"In many progressive corners of academic and online life..."

One part of one paragraph of one post. And I know you didn't bother to read the rest nor the cite. Your mind is already made up and not interested in further information.

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Hmm ?  "Anyone who declares themselves as X must be treated as X" seems like a general maxim you would follow in polite society.  Why not ?

When they're obviously NOT X then it's either an indication of dishonesty or serious mental illness.
Only a tiny number of people are actually transgendered, but now they're coming out of the woodwork as all the progressive idiots sieze on this as the latest fad and all sorts of mentally unbalanced people suddenly 'discover' that they're transgendered. Progressive mothers are probably desperately trying to get their children to wear clothing for the wrong gender so they can brag about how woke they are with their 'transgendered' child.

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Alternately, a Muslim who behaves badly at school has their behaviour put on the national stage.

Yeah, that happens at least once or twice a year.

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A white supremacist is treated as a freedom-of-speech fighter when Rogers and BELL say no to her money.  So where are we ?

With you ignoring reality and ignoring the point I made COMPLETELY that people are not going to be able to gather together in their outrage and put a stop to this sort of lunacy because progressives now venerate the idea of transgenders and anyone who complains is subject to abuse and attack. Which you will shrug and ignore because, like, well, there's no stats on that.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #613 on: December 01, 2018, 03:04:57 pm »
One part of one paragraph of one post. And I know you didn't bother to read the rest nor the cite. Your mind is already made up and not interested in further information.

When they're obviously NOT X then it's either an indication of dishonesty or serious mental illness.
Only a tiny number of people are actually transgendered, but now they're coming out of the woodwork as all the progressive idiots sieze on this as the latest fad and all sorts of mentally unbalanced people suddenly 'discover' that they're transgendered. Progressive mothers are probably desperately trying to get their children to wear clothing for the wrong gender so they can brag about how woke they are with their 'transgendered' child.

Yeah, that happens at least once or twice a year.

With you ignoring reality and ignoring the point I made COMPLETELY that people are not going to be able to gather together in their outrage and put a stop to this sort of lunacy because progressives now venerate the idea of transgenders and anyone who complains is subject to abuse and attack. Which you will shrug and ignore because, like, well, there's no stats on that.

I think I will take the word of the American Psychiatric Association over yours as to transgender people being "mentally ill". Of course that's your usual type approach to anything you don't understand, or simply not like. As to them being dishonest, why would someone proceed down this path, only to be scorned by your type, if they weren't sincere as to how they feel? And you probably also think it's some sort of new issue when in fact it has been around, in various cultures since antiquity.

"The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, stated that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition." 

Offline waldo

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #614 on: December 01, 2018, 05:16:22 pm »
Everyone understands that it's Twitter's right to ban Murphy if they wish.

It's also being pointed out how little it took for Murphy to get banned from a platform that is absolutely rife with hate speech and threats of violence.

Twitter's official position is that Murphy was banned for "misgendering" "JY"...  this is a person who still identifies themselves as Jonathan and presents themselves with a look that looks more or less like Jared from Subway, but Murphy was banned for referring to them as "him".

"how little it took"... as I understand, Ms. Murphy had multiple suspensions prior to the outright ban (at least 2); in order to return from each suspension, she complied with requests from TheTwitter to delete particular tweets in question. Upon return from her final suspension, she appears somewhat "miffed" at TheTwitter... and was banned for the following tweet... not for what you describe as, "Twitter's official position on the Ms. Murphy ban (as she had deleted those particular tweets in order to return from suspension":

This is f—— bull—, @twitter. I’m not allowed to say that men aren’t women or ask questions about the notion of transgenderism at all anymore? That a multi-billion dollar company is censoring basic facts and silencing people who ask questions about this dogma is insane.
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