Canadian Politics Today

I'm fairly sure if I was in a public change room and one of the guys had a **** I'd have taken notice.

You failed to finish answering the question: what would you do about those dissimilar genitalia?

The 'woman' being considerably larger and stronger than the diminutive Shapiro this was a pretty blatant example that HE was most definitely not a SHE.

Really?  The implication here is that no woman can be larger and stronger, and more violently inclined than a diminutive male.   Does being larger, stronger and violent = being male, then?   

The person in question proved nothing about her gender; she only proved that she is, perhaps, a little too prone to violence.

Well yes there is actually. Being born with a certain genitalia does not dictate what goes on in your brain. And such things as hormones have been shown to be influenced by what goes on in your brain more than how you pee.

That just isn't true.  There's a reason why the trans people who do want to physically transition (which is a minority of them, I have heard) use a regimen of hormone injections and hormone inhibitors.  Your body's various glands don't just start producing different hormones than the ones they are built to produce.  Your testicles aren't going to stop producing testosterone and start producing estrogen just because you wish they would.

 -k

Quote from: MH on November 24, 2018, 03:09:34 pm

More than a few dozen ?  I already said (I think) that I can't find any polls but I found polls that accept transgender rights as a large minority or majority.

Yes? And defined how? I bet it wasn't defined as "trangender women with penises get to go into female shower rooms and get sent to female prisons and can beat up lesbians if they won't sleep with them."

Yes, the devil is in the details.

I think all of us support the idea that trans people should be allowed to dress as they wish, and live free from threat of violence, and not be fired from their jobs for being trans, and generally be treated with the same dignity as any other human being.  The live and let live thing.  I think those ideas would be supported by a majority in a poll.

I think most of us probably support them using the washroom of their chosen gender, and the pronouns, and so on.  Probably still broadly supported.


But from there, I think things get a lot less clear. I'm skeptical that a broad portion of the public supports male-bodied individuals competing in women's sports. I'm skeptical that a broad portion of the public supports male-bodied individuals sharing the showers and locker rooms with women.

And I'm very doubtful that that the public supports male inmates deciding that they're women so that they can share cells with female inmates. Or relegating female art and writing to the dustbin of history if it doesn't support this new notion that talking about women's anatomic reality is "exclusive" and "hurtful" to trans people.



There might be some general level of support for trans people being allowed to live as they wish, but I don't think people should assume that this general sort of support means the public supports every radical idea that trans rights activists come up with.


 -k

Sure sounds like it: "No one with a **** is a woman. End of story. "

Excuse me for having a basic familiarity with anatomy and biology.

Well, if I had the same stance as you, I would not be trying to discuss this with you.  Rather I would be saying "anyone can be a women, disagree if you want and I will be glad when they send you to jail for doing so".

You think the 2% of fanatics on the far left should be able to impose their brainless fad beliefs on the rest of society by force?

Exactly.  And your entitlement and privilege ensures that you will bellow about this topic and assert yourself.

My entitlement and privilege? I tend to discount the IQ of people who use those terms by about 50%

Here's what you don't realize: Liberals are actually your allies in this discussion, as they will defend your right to dissent, as I do.  You are so entitled, though, that you can't see the difference and group me with the most extreme radicals.

It seems to me you believe people should certainly have their say, and then shut up and do as you tell them to.

I am starting to call this "a war footing" and it's not going to end well for either side, but especially yours.

Because my side only has 90% of the population on it but yours has brave, fanatical progressives?

I'm highly skeptical that if this is true at all, that the hormonal change is anything more than miniscule. I'm highly skeptical of the research methodology.  How could they possibly construct a controlled experiment to determine that? Did they measure some woman's testosterone level, tell her to become gay, and recheck it?  That's not how any of this works. I think you're peddling a myth here.

I have never heard of someone's biological sex changing in response to their gender identification.  As I said, there's a reason they need to use hormone injections and hormone inhibitors when they're transistioning.

 -k

Hormone tampering can certainly augment transitioning but it also appears to happen naturally based simply on ones desire.

Your side will be in the minority in a few years, and will need liberals to support you.

And what is going to make 'my side' a minority? The hundreds of thousands of extremely religious Muslims your side is bringing into Canada? You think those are the people who are eagerly going to support womens rights, never mind gay rights, never mind absurdist fiction about men in dresses being women? You think the huge number of Asians coming in is any more thrilled by  the lunacy of the far left's extremist social views? The mainland Chinese coming in now are extremely conservative, if not very religious. They're not going to endorse any of this ****. The Filipinos are very Catholic. They're not going to endorse it either. Indians tend to be very conservative about sex, too.

Generally speaking 'my side' is mostly concerned about fiscal responsibility and reasonably sane social policy. Your side is obsessed with every little faddish bit of identity politics, elevating it to a breathtaking level of importance which eclipses all other everyday concerns. I think it was Douglas Murray who remarked at one point that western governments will be fixated on the shrill complaints of sanctimonious progressives when the Russians roll across Europe.

And what is going to make 'my side' a minority?

Really only a few ticks of the clock.
 

Generally speaking 'my side' is mostly concerned about fiscal responsibility and reasonably sane social policy. Your side is obsessed with every little faddish bit of identity politics, elevating it to a breathtaking level of importance which eclipses all other everyday concerns. I think it was Douglas Murray who remarked at one point that western governments will be fixated on the shrill complaints of sanctimonious progressives when the Russians roll across Europe.

You put me on a side that I'm not on.  I'm actually a liberal, which crosses over a lot of lines you have written here.