Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 56008 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2017, 03:06:30 pm »

You seem fairly set on the idea that religious views merit consideration above and beyond what someone's personal conscience is, as a matter of law.

Yes, as I said it has to be resolved.  The case of Muslims is a whole other complexity I haven't thought about.

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I wasn't discussing "protected by law".  I was scoffing at the notion that BC_C's vegetarianism, which is a matter of deeply-held conscience, is viewed as being less sincere or less worthy of respect than someone who is a vegetarian because a magic book tells them so.

You're scoffing at the constitution, but ok.

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For some portion of women who this safe space has been provided for, the presence of trans people will eliminate any sense of safety.

It seems to me that characterizing objections to dongs in the locker room as "aesthetics problems for the delicate" is pretty trivializing.

Point taken, but I was speaking to the comments that people "don't feel comfortable" which to me is not a reasonable test of accommodation.  If people have trauma around seeing penises, then that is a serious matter to consider IMO.


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It might not align with the view of some in the ultra-progressive and Ivory Tower world, I agree. I first off think that any woman who says she's in favor of this should get in a locker room and change while a naked male person watches her, to put her money where her mouth is.  It's really easy to *say* you're in favor with something and trivialize or insult the objections of those who don't share your view, but when rubber meets road how many of these ultra-progressives and Ivory Tower types will live up to their talk?

I addressed the trivializing point above.

You call it 'ivory tower', I call it an 'emerging view'.  I expect ultra-progressives will in fact live up to it, but the tough work is ahead in any case as this will be policy soon.
 
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I absolutely understand that trans people are at great risk of encountering hatred and violence.  And I have no wish to contribute to someone feeling unsafe. At the same time, I won't sacrifice my own sense of security in favor of someone else's.  I believe that many women-- the silent majority, probably-- feel the same.

And as I mentioned earlier, I think that Body Blitz thinks so as well.  I think that they've taken this position not because they are hateful people, but because they know that allowing penises into their ****, women-only environment will be a grave threat to their continued financial viability. I believe that many women will not kick up a fuss over the admission of penises, but will simply decide to stop going to Body Blitz.

Hypothetically, if the human rights commission and the fair play committee and the lawyers and whoever else tell Body Blitz that they have to allow dongs in their spa, and Body Blitz ends up closing 3 months later so that nobody has this safe-space anymore, will that be a tremendous victory for human rights?
 

It may be that women will not visit the spa, or that the spa will change its nudist policy.  It's a tough question, but I will point out there are other women-only spas that don't have nudity which is why BodyBlitz is such a lightning rod.

Also notable that men haven't been making much noise over women-only spas lately, so some questions on human rights do get answered.