Author Topic: Gender Culture  (Read 10313 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2809
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1380 on: October 26, 2019, 09:47:57 pm »
My trans friends hate her so much. They feel like she has set back their fight to be recognized and taken seriously by at least a decade.

Hopefully someone more reasonable tries to get their balls shaved by someone who doesn’t want to do it for trans people everywhere.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1381 on: October 27, 2019, 05:35:38 am »
Hopefully someone more reasonable tries to get their balls shaved by someone who doesn’t want to do it for trans people everywhere.

There are infinite possibilities for the kinds of cases that can be tried.  I'd rather people establish firmly things that are more central to one's ability to live a happy and productive life, ie. establish employment right and rights of association.

Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3912
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1382 on: October 27, 2019, 02:17:21 pm »
as stated before: your want to have the CBC's fact based coverage devolve into publishing your favoured blog hosted, agenda-driven messaging is a non-starter!

the kimmo reiterates that the CBC's coverage of Yaniv failed to convey the extent of Yaniv's toxic behavior towards the people xe filed complaints against,  or xer racial animus against the defendants.  the Ceeb has certainly failed to convey the hardship imposed by Yaniv and the HRC process on these women and others targeted by Yaniv which includes personal harassment by phone and text from Yaniv, loss of employment and income, and psychological harm including anxiety and depression. the three women who were able to secure legal representation (pro-bono, provided by a far-right Christian organization, sadly) and fight Yaniv through the HRT process; several others were unable to find any lawyer who would take on their cases and advised to settle. Yaniv was able to successfully shake down several other women, who didn't get any justice from this ruling.  the Ceeb glosses over or completely ignores the other women harmed by Yaniv.   but you gotta break a few eggs, ey, wallay wallay wallay? 

 the kimmo notes that trans-boosters such as cybercoma and MH have commented on what a detriment to the cause of trans rights Yaniv is; they certainly didn't form that opinion based on what CBC has reported on this case.

 -k
Masked for your safety.

Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3912
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1383 on: October 27, 2019, 02:21:26 pm »
Hopefully someone more reasonable tries to get their balls shaved by someone who doesn’t want to do it for trans people everywhere.

Someone more reasonable would probably just go to one of the establishments that do have staff who trained and willing to perform aesthetics procedures on a scrotum.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
Creative Creative x 1 View List

Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3912
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1384 on: October 27, 2019, 02:30:40 pm »
There are infinite possibilities for the kinds of cases that can be tried.  I'd rather people establish firmly things that are more central to one's ability to live a happy and productive life, ie. establish employment right and rights of association.

If this was what we were actually talking about, you'd get little argument.   Most people probably thought this was what they were supporting when they passed Bill C-16.

The notion that the new law might erode or end sex-based protections for women probably didn't occur to most people, even the politicians who advocated for it.  The Yaniv case was the first test of how far C-16 might push... next up could be trans people transferring into women's prisons.  Some horrible TERF filed some access to information requests and found that of 8 trans-women transferred into women's prisons in Canada, 7 were violent offenders before discovering they're actually women.  Did people who supported Bill C-16 anticipate an outcome like that?  Probably not, I'm guessing, but that's one of the things that has happened since C-16 was passed.   Meghan Murphy has been talking about potential downsides like that, which is why pro-trans activists are so intent on getting her deplatformed.


 -k
Masked for your safety.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1385 on: October 27, 2019, 03:58:41 pm »
1. If this was what we were actually talking about, you'd get little argument.   

2. ...next up could be trans people transferring into women's prisons.  Some horrible TERF filed some access to information requests and found that of 8 trans-women transferred into women's prisons in Canada, 7 were violent offenders before discovering they're actually women.  Did people who supported Bill C-16 anticipate an outcome like that?  Probably not, I'm guessing
1. I would rather Yaniv not be talked about.
2. No, probably not.

Offline waldo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3757
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1386 on: October 28, 2019, 12:44:45 am »
as stated before: your want to have the CBC's fact based coverage devolve into publishing your favoured blog hosted, agenda-driven messaging is a non-starter!

CBC July 26: Transgender woman testifies at human rights tribunal after being refused Brazilian wax

CBC Oct 22: Estheticians don't have to wax male genitalia against their will, B.C. tribunal rules --- Transgender woman loses complaint against estheticians who refused her service
Quote
The ruling also found that Yaniv engaged in improper conduct by misleading the tribunal, by being untruthful, and by engaging in extortionate behaviour and scurrilous attacks.

It was also noted that she brought most of her 15 complaints against women described as "not white," while expressing racial animosity on social media and in her testimony.

Yaniv was ordered to pay $2,000 to each of three respondents.
the kimmo reiterates that the CBC's coverage of Yaniv failed to convey the extent of Yaniv's toxic behavior towards the people xe filed complaints against,  or xer racial animus against the defendants.  the Ceeb has certainly failed to convey the hardship imposed by Yaniv and the HRC process on these women and others targeted by Yaniv which includes personal harassment by phone and text from Yaniv, loss of employment and income, and psychological harm including anxiety and depression. the three women who were able to secure legal representation (pro-bono, provided by a far-right Christian organization, sadly) and fight Yaniv through the HRT process; several others were unable to find any lawyer who would take on their cases and advised to settle. Yaniv was able to successfully shake down several other women, who didn't get any justice from this ruling.  the Ceeb glosses over or completely ignores the other women harmed by Yaniv.   but you gotta break a few eggs, ey, wallay wallay wallay? 

the kimmo notes that trans-boosters such as cybercoma and MH have commented on what a detriment to the cause of trans rights Yaniv is; they certainly didn't form that opinion based on what CBC has reported on this case.

the waldo remains uncertain why the kimmo expects a fact-based mainstream media outlet to present itself as an arbiter of blog terf-wars... most notably some of the gossip-filled howlings you've presented in dropping assorted links to your favs! Somehow you managed to ignore the most recent CBC article quote extract I put forward in my initial reply - quite fact based and pointedly speaks to improper actions/behavior; again:
Quote
The ruling also found that Yaniv engaged in improper conduct by misleading the tribunal, by being untruthful, and by engaging in extortionate behaviour and scurrilous attacks.

It was also noted that she brought most of her 15 complaints against women described as "not white," while expressing racial animosity on social media and in her testimony.

Yaniv was ordered to pay $2,000 to each of three respondents.

Offline kimmy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3912
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1387 on: October 30, 2019, 09:54:04 am »
1. I would rather Yaniv not be talked about.

Of course.  Yourself and other trans cheerleaders have based your arguments on the notion that it would be far too much effort for some predator to abuse gender self-ID in pursuing their sexual fetishes and fantasies.   And now with Yaniv we see that your basic assumption is just plain wrong.  Life lesson: never underestimate how far some men are willing to go in pursuing their sexual fantasies.

Yaniv is the most well known, but certainly not the first or last. We know of others, but none of them have made international spectacles of themselves the way Yaniv has. How many more Yanivs are out there that are flying under the radar? We have no way of knowing. Nonetheless, we now have this individual who has gained notoriety to a degree that xe just can't be ignored by the press, and so the goalposts move from "That never happens" to "Not all trans!"

But nobody ever argued that all trans people are perverts or predators. The argument is and always has been that on-demand gender self-id would be exploited by perverts and predators.

2. No, probably not.

Which is why it's so crucial that we silence Murphy and others like her, amirite?

 -k
Masked for your safety.
Agree Agree x 3 Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2809
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1388 on: October 30, 2019, 12:22:53 pm »
So this Murphy woman gave a talk at the Toronto library where hundreds protested....   she has an opinion that she boils down to "If you're born male, you remain male for life," she said.

She also said that the "trans-activist movement has made for the erasure of women."

...   


hmmm....   so she doesn't think trans people shouldn't have equal rights?  She doesn't think they should be beat up....   she just thinks if you're born a male, then your biology dictates that you're a male for life.  And this is worth almost inciting riots over?   Accusing someone like that of promoting hatred and violence?   These activists are a bloody joke.   There are actual people who spread actual hate, and they want to try and silence a rather innocuous viewpoint.  A viewpoint she has every right to espouse.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/megan-murphy-toronto-library-protest-1.5339909

Agree Agree x 2 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1389 on: October 30, 2019, 12:41:08 pm »
Kimmy I rated your post dumb for now, as I am on my phone.
Informative Informative x 1 Useful Useful x 1 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1390 on: October 31, 2019, 05:27:30 am »
1.Of course.  Yourself and other trans cheerleaders have based your arguments on the notion that it would be far too much effort for some predator to abuse gender self-ID in pursuing their sexual fetishes and fantasies.   

2. And now with Yaniv we see that your basic assumption is just plain wrong.  Life lesson: never underestimate how far some men are willing to go in pursuing their sexual fantasies.

Yaniv is the most well known, but certainly not the first or last. We know of others, but none of them have made international spectacles of themselves the way Yaniv has. How many more Yanivs are out there that are flying under the radar? We have no way of knowing. Nonetheless, we now have this individual who has gained notoriety to a degree that xe just can't be ignored by the press, and so the goalposts move from "That never happens" to "Not all trans!"

But nobody ever argued that all trans people are perverts or predators. The argument is and always has been that on-demand gender self-id would be exploited by perverts and predators.

Which is why it's so crucial that we silence Murphy and others like her, amirite?

 -k

1. I resent being called a 'trans cheerleader'.  Though we have differed on points, I don't feel we are far apart on what we basically want, and certainly I trust your intellectual honesty that you generally are looking for a solution that makes our communities happier. 

It feels like you are losing humour, and starting to lose kim-ness in the face of this controversy, which makes me sad.

I don't remember making any argument like that earlier. I generally agree that designing group rights around the possibility of abusers like this is a bad idea, but I also agree that psychopaths and other bad actors exist.

2. I don't think either of us know what this person's motives were, only that their case failed and they were penalized for using racialized language targeting complaintants, ie. bad faith use of the system.

3. "The argument is and always has been that on-demand gender self-id would be exploited by perverts and predators. "  Was that the argument ?  Ok so what do we do with that ?  Ban penises from women's shelters ?  Is that what we want ?  And sports should exclude based on the hormone level of the participant ?

4. "Which is why it's so crucial that we silence Murphy and others like her, amirite?"  She denies that trans women are women which is a world apart from the suggestions I put forward in #3 above.

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5495
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1391 on: October 31, 2019, 09:21:17 am »
Micheal, men need to understand that women are on the receiving end of all this bullshit. It shouldn’t be surprising that kimmy would have a different perspective and stronger views.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1392 on: October 31, 2019, 10:02:11 am »
Wilbur I don't understand what drove you to comment.  Nothing you wrote is objectionable to me, I think.

Do you want me to clarify anything?

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5495
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1393 on: October 31, 2019, 11:04:50 am »
Wilbur I don't understand what drove you to comment.  Nothing you wrote is objectionable to me, I think.

Do you want me to clarify anything?

Yes, are you transgender?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7710
Re: Gender Culture
« Reply #1394 on: October 31, 2019, 11:23:09 am »
Yes, are you transgender?

What?  No... ???