Author Topic: Entitlement culture  (Read 398 times)

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Offline Goddess

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 02:19:16 pm »
  I believe he was suggesting you could use paper and pencil to figure out how much additional you pay in consumption taxes, since you were "guessing" that took you to 40%.

Oh yes.  I'm aware it was an insult.  I just was trying to not respond in kind.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 03:53:02 pm »
SirJohn I generally agree with your opening post. It's like a teenager or young adult that is given everything by their parents and comes to expect being given things and isn't appreciative, and as a result isn't able to function on their own with sucking on the teet.  The parents think they're just being good to their child but they're actually making them weaker and more less independent.  Next thing you know you have an otherwise healthy grown child in their 30's living in their parents basement, not well adjusted and unable to fend for themselves in the real world because they remain in the protective bubble of the parents.

I've read and see a number of university professor talking about how students come there and have never been challenged, have, in fact, been protected from challenges, both at school and by their parents. We're talking about the generation which was never allowed out of their parents' site until they were teenagers, the ones who got badges, medals, ribbons and trophies just for participating, whose schools tailored the curriculum to reinforce their self-esteem and encourage reports of 'bullying' - which they actually do! I'm not talking about what we used to call bullying. Just criticizing someone's shirt or shoes is considered bullying these days. Saying anything unkind or unflattering is bullying. In my day we'd never tattle to teachers, even if some kid punched us in the head. Nowadays they run to teacher immediately.

To paraphrase one professor he said the ones entering university over the last few years have been the best prepared in terms of knowledge and abilities, and the most emotionally unprepared and fragile of any group he's ever seen.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 07:43:41 pm »
I know Ontario is taxed slightly higher than BC, but just for fun I ran the numbers on CRA website for what your income tax would be on $150,000.  Your total tax (federal and provincial) is $46,656 which is just over 31%.

If you paid more than that, you're not as 'not rich' as you say you are.  Or maybe it was a bonus which ends up being dispersed over your annual earnings and taxed slightly higher.

Either way, 40% doesn't sound right even for a nicely compensated position. 

I looked again, you're right it was a extra portion of my pay, not my regular wage, which is certainly lower than 30%

Why do they seem to tax things like overtime higher?
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 09:57:38 pm »
It sounds about right to me.  Almost exactly 1/3 of my monthly paycheque goes directly to taxes and deductions.  Add in the taxes I pay on everything else during the month and I bet it would be about 40% of my income that goes to the government.

I've worked in accounting, including HR and payroll for over 15 years.  I hear this kind of gripe all the time from employees, and honestly, it always comes down to a miscalculation which can easily be explained.

I've attached the screen-shot for you for payroll income tax-deductions for someone in Ontario (highest taxed province) who makes 50K, 100K, 150K, 200K, 250K and 300K. 

As Cybercoma said, CPP and EI and are not taxes.  The former is for your retirement and the latter is insurance should you need. 

Also to add to that, they are only deducted on the first ~$50K, so it's not a straight deduction throughout the year for high-earners, and if you're making $50K/yr you're only paying about 16% total tax, so it brings your overall total deduction to ~22%.

Before I break it down, please remember these amounts do not include any tax credits whatsoever.  As you are aware, you are likely to get a refund when you do your taxes at the end of year.  But even at the maximum, before any amounts are returned, you'll see the following:

(calculated semi-monthly)

50K/yr = 337/2083 = 16%
100K/yr - 1029/4166 = 24.7%
150K/yr = 1943/6249 = 31%
200K/yr = 2942/8322 = 35%

These two I'll have to post separately as they exceed my attachment maximum:

250k/yr = 4046/10416 = 38%
300k/yr = 5162/12500 = 41%

Basically, unless you're in the 1% making 300K/yr, you're not paying 40% tax.  If you make less than 300K and you are paying 40% tax, you need to discuss it with your HR department ASAP!

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:03:21 pm by BC_cheque »
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 10:00:06 pm »

These two I'll have to post separately as they exceed my attachment maximum:

250k/yr = 4046/10416 = 38%
300k/yr = 5162/12500 = 41%



And the last two attachments

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 10:51:19 pm »
PS, for those in the 1% making 300K/yr, you're hopefully not paying 40% tax either.  Assuming you're on payroll and all your income is taxable (a rarity to begin with), you have many good ways to reduce that through RRSP's or investing in CRCE companies. 

Sorry folks, I call caca when I see it.
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Offline MH

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2017, 05:47:30 am »
I've read and see a number of university professor talking about how students come there and have never been challenged, have, in fact, been protected from challenges, both at school and by their parents. We're talking about the generation which was never allowed out of their parents' site until they were teenagers, the ones who got badges, medals, ribbons and trophies just for participating, whose schools tailored the curriculum to reinforce their self-esteem and encourage reports of 'bullying' - which they actually do! I'm not talking about what we used to call bullying. Just criticizing someone's shirt or shoes is considered bullying these days. Saying anything unkind or unflattering is bullying. In my day we'd never tattle to teachers, even if some kid punched us in the head. Nowadays they run to teacher immediately.

To paraphrase one professor he said the ones entering university over the last few years have been the best prepared in terms of knowledge and abilities, and the most emotionally unprepared and fragile of any group he's ever seen.

I have heard this also, but it's anecdotal and not quantifiable so I'm dubious.
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Offline Hydra.Boss

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 11:32:49 am »
it's anecdotal and not quantifiable
It's bloody quantifiable enough in my world....two kids, 19 and 20. 

My son is the younger and living in his own apartment, full time job, credit card, vehicle loan, etc.  Doesn't expect anyone to give him anything (except maybe a little "help" from dad once in a while that he doesn't ask for). 

Now my daughter?  Totally different situation - living with her boyfriend, no job, no education past high school, no interest in finding a job or getting her license, and thinks the world should pay her for her efforts.  Big into "social causes" whether they affect her or not (or whether she even understands them or not!)  I remember her getting all worked up because my son said he couldn't give a damn one way or the other if someone is gay - she started going off how "that's illegal!!!"  I had to set her straight on "the law".  Hate to say it, but my girl turned out to be the epitome of a "snowflake" as did a whole pile of the people she went to high school with.

Parents and teachers jointly created these types of people.

The boy is proud of what he has because he earned it.  The girl has no respect for anything really and I think it's because things were just given to her without any effort on her part.  This would be the very definition of "entitlement culture".

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2017, 02:02:06 pm »
As long as we are using personal anecdotes as proof.... I have some too.  :)

My two kids, boy and a girl.  Boy has always worked and been 'responsible' from a young age.  Daughter, not so much.  Took her a while to figure out she would have to work and couldn"t expect the rest of the world to pick up her slack.  Eventually she did, but she was pushing 30.

My friend has two kids, a boy and girl, both in their 20s.  Girl is goal-oriented, responsible, takes care of her own stuff.  The boy, not so much.

Anecdotes don"t really mean much, though. 

Offline Goddess

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2017, 02:08:35 pm »


As Cybercoma said, CPP and EI and are not taxes.  The former is for your retirement and the latter is insurance should you need. 

Also to add to that, they are only deducted on the first ~$50K, so it's not a straight deduction throughout the year for high-earners, and if you're making $50K/yr you're only paying about 16% total tax, so it brings your overall total deduction to ~22%.


Basically, unless you're in the 1% making 300K/yr, you're not paying 40% tax.  If you make less than 300K and you are paying 40% tax, you need to discuss it with your HR department ASAP!

Thanks for that info.  Ya, I don't need the figures for making 300K/yr.  LOL  ;D

I've never used EI and I've been told for the last 10-15 years or so that the CPP coffers will be long gone by the time I'm ready to collect, so I don't rely on that for retirement and view it as an additional "tax" for which I will get nothing in return.  Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised when I retire and receive a CPP cheque.  We'll see.  But I'm sure not counting on it.
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Offline MH

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2017, 02:31:20 pm »
It's bloody quantifiable enough in my world....two kids, 19 and 20. 

My son is the younger and living in his own apartment, full time job, credit card, vehicle loan, etc.  Doesn't expect anyone to give him anything (except maybe a little "help" from dad once in a while that he doesn't ask for). 

Ok, so your evidence is your own kids ?  Okaaaaay.

It's really difficult to quantify such things, and keep in mind if you're on this board then the same things were said about your generation.

Offline MH

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 02:32:26 pm »
  Anecdotes don"t really mean much, though.

Booyah.  I have anecdotes as well, working with teams of millennials.  They were all great but you won't find me using that as definitive proof that millennials are all awesome.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2017, 02:58:56 pm »
Thanks for that info.  Ya, I don't need the figures for making 300K/yr.  LOL  ;D

I've never used EI and I've been told for the last 10-15 years or so that the CPP coffers will be long gone by the time I'm ready to collect, so I don't rely on that for retirement and view it as an additional "tax" for which I will get nothing in return.  Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised when I retire and receive a CPP cheque.  We'll see.  But I'm sure not counting on it.

CPP was in a bit of crisis 10-15 years ago but its assets are doing well now and as far as I know, it should be there when you retire.  Plus you'll have your OAS as well so the big evil government that takes your money will make sure you have a few things to fall back on. 

EI is an insurance premium and just like car insurance, it's ridiculously expensive and even if you don't need it, it's mandatory to have.  The max is ~$800/yr right now so without considering rate change and inflation and assuming a 40 year career based on today's amounts ($32,000), should you ever need it for one year it's paid for itself.  I'm self-employed and I've had to cover my own mat-leave both times and trust me, anything I saved being self-employed probably went right out the window for those two years.

To elaborate on something I said earlier, they're 6.4% if you make less than $50K, but your tax-rate is quite low at that point and if say you make 100K, combined they only make 3.4% of your income since they cap out.  That's even if we consider them along with tax, which I don't think we should.

I'm glad the numbers make more sense.  I don't like when people think the government is just out to rob everyone and they're convinced they're giving away more than they're getting. 

Personally, I agree payroll people have it worst and self-employed and corporations need to pitch in more in order for payroll tax rates to come down, but that's another argument. 

As far as this thread is concerned, a little perspective helps when people say they're paying 40% in tax on a modest income (or in SJ's case 50%+) when there is no way.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 03:17:50 pm by BC_cheque »
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2017, 03:13:12 pm »
As long as we are using personal anecdotes as proof.... I have some too.  :)

My two kids, boy and a girl.  Boy has always worked and been 'responsible' from a young age.  Daughter, not so much.  Took her a while to figure out she would have to work and couldn"t expect the rest of the world to pick up her slack.  Eventually she did, but she was pushing 30.

My friend has two kids, a boy and girl, both in their 20s.  Girl is goal-oriented, responsible, takes care of her own stuff.  The boy, not so much.

Anecdotes don"t really mean much, though.

I have some anecdotes too but not for my family personally.  How come all the socialist (read - Entitled) European countries with work/life balance and heavy taxation aren't falling apart economically and have such better standard of living and happier citizens? 

How come the US has so much more maternal mortality than the rest of the developed world even though their healthcare is private and top tier?  How come their taxation is slightly below ours yet their citizens have so little compared to ours?

What measure should we really be using to assess a country's performance when it comes to taxation and providing for its citizens?
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Offline Goddess

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Re: Entitlement culture
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2017, 03:15:42 pm »
Thanks, BC.  I'm fortunate to have an employer who also contributes to my RRSP, too.  For a small company, we have a lot of benefits - health, dental, eyecare.  Plus she gives everyone 1 paid sick day/month (It can accrue but goes back to 0 if you don't use them by the end of the year) and just a couple weeks ago, she is giving us each 1 paid "mental health day"/month.
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